Ron Paul and civil liberties - a debate

[mf0rz]

meanwhile... back in the states...

[blunt1984]

The Heritage Foundation is a far-right Zionist front group.

If ya didn't know that already.

[Plutonwolf]

Yea, I did. But thanks anyway ;-)

[MicheasTheMighty]

Conn must feel pretty lousy being a bitch for the neoconservatives.

[NicoleLLang]

Bruce Fein for President!

[dj1067]

Con the neocon got smacked down!

[yay1912]

Ya know when the debate first started I kept expecting Fein to be interrupted by the moderator.

I guess I have been watching to much fox news.

[lastnymleft]

Neocon-shill, Con Carrol, evidently turned up to a battle of wits unarmed.

Bruce Fein has Truth on his side, and can slice this turkey's arguments at will with it.

[hombrelupa]

Bush committed a felony and he should be reprimanded. There is no way out of this with excuses.

[didyoulisiten]

I agree that the law should have been changed. I ask you though, how long do you think it would have taken congress to rewrite and pass another law? Knowing congress we would still be waiting on it. Get real people. The hardest thing for congress to do is make a decent law. How many attacks would we have had during this time? Hide you head in the sand Ron Paul.

[eckyboyo]

didyoulisten.... So its ok with you for your President to disobey any law he feels like?

[didyoulisiten]

eckyboyo,Since you have such an abundant knowledge of U.S. law, why don't you tell us exactly "WHICH LAW" did he disobey? We are all waiting for you vast knowledge and it had better not be any of that Dennis Kucinich BULLSHIT either.if it is don't even go any further. Just Shut Up.

[mengwise36]

Since you don't know how many attacks were actually prevented because of it, I will have to say it is 0.

Keep in mind, before 9/11, the British Intelligence (who does not listen to our phone calls) and Israeli Intelligence (who also does not listen to our phone calls) BOTH told US that an attach is coming. Bush slept at the wheel and did not pay attention to it (per Richard Clark) and that is why 9/11 happened. You need to get your head out of your butt.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,Oh my god! You mean British and Israeli Intelligence Agencies actually called up President Bush and told him that some crazy Arabs were going to fly our airplanes into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. And possibly a third aimed at the White House or Congress? Shit,where were we at? Could it be that our intelligence network had been dismantled? Thank you for that vital piece of information. I'll be sure to pass it along.

[mengwise36]

I wonder who you will pass it along. You mean there are more un-informed people living in your neck of the woods?

Being sarcastic without knowledge just makes you look stupid. MI6 is NOT going to call Bush just like CIA will NOT call Blair. If you did not know that, consider it free education.

Read Richard Clark (who was the Tsar of anti-terrorism for several administrations) and see what he got to say before you appear this stupid again. Then pass it along to your imaginary friends.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,He was WHAT? This will be your education stupid. A U.S. government employee for 30 years. He worked for the State Department. Bill Clinton promoted Clarke to be the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council(guess he helped cut our intelligence capability). Under President George W. Bush, Clarke no longer had cabinet-level access. the other shit is so stupid I won't justify it. OH! they also said Saddam had WMD, did you by chance forget about that?

[mengwise36]

Your stupidity truly knows no boundary. Clark was the counter-terrorism coordinator.

So the top counter-terrorism adviser lost cabinet level access, and you blame HIM for cutting our intelligence. I would say Bush did not put counter-terrorism high on his priority list. NO?

MI6 told Tony Blair before the invasion of Iraq that a high-placed Iraqi source said that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction. The intelligence was passed to the US but was buried by the White House!!!

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,You say coordinator one place,then say the same thing I did the next(adviser)? He had 8yrs, want me to name off all the things we know happened under Clinton? Know what, I seem to remember Tony Blair saying that he did have WMD,not MI6(been reading Tony's mail). Would you like ME to find some film clips? An I am so glad that you were in the White House reading all those CIA and National Security Advisory Bulletins for us.

[mengwise36]

Clark was the counter-terrorism coordinator. That was his official title. But, let's assume he was a mere adviser like you said, it still meant Bush took anti-terrorism off the table.

The WTC got bombed soon after Clinton took office. That was about the only thing that happened on US soil. The bombing of embassies in Africa and Cole were not on our land. If you want to compare bombing in foreign countries, I am sure 1 months in Iraq is the equivalence of the entire 8 year of Clinton.

[mengwise36]

Even if you can file clips of Tony Blair saying Saddam had WMD, what does that prove? That he lied?

Once again, being sarcastic without knowledge just makes you look stupid. Not knowing is not the same as knowing not.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,You make no FU--ING since what so ever. You brought up Tony Blair,MI6,they told Bush. You show us your PROOF,"KNOWING". Stupid is the way you are looking after I shot your stupid staments full of holes and you come back with is, "Even if you can file clips of Tony Blair saying Saddam had WMD, what does that prove? That he lied?". Thats no more than, "I know your stupid,but what am I" shit.

[mengwise36]

Have you considered that maybe I am not making any sense to you because you did not comprehend?

1. Read ipsnews (dot) net/news (dot) asp?idnews=43494. That is proof. I did not sit in the White House and read the memos and NEITHER did you. Source after source told MI6 and CIA that there was no WMD. They were ignored.

2. Since there is proof that Blair and Bush lied, and since there is NO proof that Saddam had WMD, what will you call anything you dig up with Blair saying Saddam had WMD?

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,Your reference comes up blank. Stories can't be accessed using an ID No. What was the Title of the story?

[mengwise36]

Not sure why not. The title is: POLITICS-US: How Tenet Betrayed the CIA on WMD in Iraq.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,Only problem is,"THEY WANT MONEY FOR SUBSCRIPTION." Can you access the info and copy?

[mengwise36]

That is strange. All I did was google "MI6 Iraq WMD" and clicked on the link. I did not pay anything. Let me know if you still can't see it and I will copy it and send it to you.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,Now that worked. The article is still mostly supposition and hear say. I know documents vanish and proving a(off the record)conservation is nothing short of impossibly. This is all hind-sight. Before you can say Bush/Blair/Tenet lied,first you have to put yourself in their position at the time. All the things that had happened,knowing Saddam's past and tactics,would you have believed those"inside sources",especially Habbush al-Tikriti, Iraqi Director of Intelligence,and the others?

[mengwise36]

I would not call them supposition or hear say since most of the "nays" came from Iraqis themselves. However you do have a point in hind-sight being 20/20.

On the other hand, if your intelligence tells you one thing and you CHOOSE to believe another, then you can not blame the intelligence. Maybe Bush honestly believed that Saddam was lying through all the sources. But since that was the wrong conclusion, he can not say intelligence failed him. Don't you agree?

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,Yea,but that typical CYA for all of us. On the 20/20, look at Neville Chamberlain. Hell, he came back with a signed document by Hitler himself. Waved the damn thing all over London. Didn't stop the BLITZ though. His advisers told him that he couldn't trust a thing Hitler said or did. Whose would you rather be in, Chamberlain,s or Bush's shoes?

[mengwise36]

Chamberlain is remembered for his mistake, wouldn't you agree? So Bush should also be remembered for his mistake, wouldn't you say? Such is life. If you are right, you are a hero. If you are wrong, you are a joke.

Chamberlain believed Hitler and that was his mistake. Bush believed Saddam and that was his failure. One was fool into inaction while the other was bluffed. One was fooled because his hope for peace while the other rather go to war to prove he was right.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,True,but consider,one went to war, because he didn't know whether he was right, or wrong, and was not will to take the chance that he was wrong at the cost of innocent citizens,he was charged to protect,being killed. There are those who would say:"but American Soldiers died". Soldiers know what their duty was the day they became soldiers and that they may have to die to protect their fellow citizens. It's their JOB. This is what a President does. Protect the people.

[mengwise36]

Sorry but I can not buy the preempt attack argument. For that matter, we should get rid of all the other world power "just in case" and we certainly NEED to get rid of all the "pro-terrorist" regimes for sure. Where do you stop?

Consider FDR. He did not declare war on Japan even though Japan was one of the 3 major military powers of the Axis. Instead, US tried financial sanction and oil embargo which forced Japan to attack first.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,It was not a preempted attack, there was a truce called,like the one with North Korea. It was a different kind of truce, it was a submissive truce(ceasefire). He (SADDAM) had to meet certain requirements "OR ELSE". By 2003 it was quite clear that he had no intention of freely complying with the terms of the ceasefire agreement. He was warned repeatedly and told to leave the country. The war was with Saddam and the Baath Party, not the people of Iraq. This was not a PREEMPTED ATTACK.

[mengwise36]

That was only a tactic for the preemptive strike. Colin Powell's speech at UN was not about Saddam won't leave but about Saddam HAD WMD. Bush's case for war was not about Saddam won't leave but about "mushroom cloud". The people did not get behind the cause because of some technicality but because they were afraid that Saddam will build a nuke and give it to someone and set it up in NY or DC. We spent month preparing for the invasion. Telling Saddam to leave in 48 hours was just an excuse.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,Now you have crossed the line to the realm of stupidity. Nothing else can be said. You're right! George Bush actually Planted Bombs in the World Trade Center, and Dick Chaney planted them in the Pentagon. Now who was it that flew Flight 93 into the ground. Oh,yes! That was a Bush plant, who was dying of Aids, that the Government invented to Kill Black People.

[mengwise36]

Wow, did you skip a pill or something thing? You need to get this bi-polar of your under control. Everyone who does not agree with you is a conspiracy theorist, ah?

While I have my doubts, I never said Bush bombed WTC. The invasion WAS planned for months because you can not move 150,000 people with a drop of the hat. Don't tell me you thought the invasion was planned out in 2 days.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,Do you really think that when the President, went on National TV, and told Saddam to get out,that was the "FIRST TIME" he told him that? That was the PUBLIC "ANNOUNCEMENT". You really don't understand what goes on outside the Public Arena, DO YOU?

[mengwise36]

Then why do you use that as an excuse? It was the "public" show that gave us the "excuse" to invade. You mean trying to kill Saddam for over a decade was not enough to send the message?

IF Bush told US and UN, "I told Saddam to get out of the country and if he does not we will invade him", you really think anyone will support him? That was lame excuse then and for you to even mention it is really lame now.

Bush fucked up, pre war and post war. Simple as that.

[didyoulisiten]

mengwise36,This is my last comment to you. You are neither rational nor creditable. You're like the little kid, "I know you are, but what am I".

[mengwise36]

I am not rational? Then you really need help understanding what rationality is. But it is fine if that was you last comment. Talking to you is like dealing with a bi-polar or a psycho.

[chewbaca1989]

Viewers! What ever side of the debate your on please watch this movie on youtube.

FABLED ENEMIES of 911

It demonstrates we had all the info necessary to stop the attack of 9-11. So why take our freedoms? Screw the FED.

[chewbaca1989]

Fien is the man, accityfolk got it right.

[vryheid88]

Con is a con-man!

[overmind25]

Paul Jay I am so proud of you.

[accityfolk]

Bruce Fein is the man

[turkeyjurker]

"con" LOL

[calvinjones]

thanks for the video

[TimberGeek]

OMFG Con Carroll was lying almost every single word he spoke.

[RonnieJamesreamer]

Conn is out of touch!

[CrazyCurtisLow]

Great job Bruce. Ron Paul only suspended his campaign.

[momerath42]

Indeed, 'Con' is either extremely misinformed or trying to put one over on us. An email between citizens of two countries other than the US is unlikely to go through the US (there are exceptions), but that's completely beside the point. The discussion was about spying on US citizens, and any (smart) terrorist will encrypt their email anyway.

[BuelahMan]

Con is an apt name.

[charlessmyth]

Good video.