I'm taking my kids to the rally tonight in St. Paul, and my family in Montana are all voting for Obama today. I hope it is a big win and I hope he declares the nomination won. My kids and I will get to witness a little piece of history.
Joe-I love you but you are wrong on this one. I am an older white woman from Michigan and a BIG Obama fan. The local news did a good job encouraging people to go to the polls and vote uncommitted as an option candidates not on the ballot. Hillary only won by 52%- weak under the circumstances. There are those that think. Hillary's gang was quick to make the wrong assumptions about Michigan. Don't get caught up in their brainless frenzy. Some of us older ladies are very sharp.
Sorry emerging; didn't mean to group you together with the likes of Harriet Christian.
All the candidates have supporters in all demographics. But Obama is weaker than he should be among women and seniors, so we're probably going to see some messaging directed at shoring these groups up.
This was a very nice and sensible analysis. What I don't get is how MI and FL ended up going ahead in the first place. Did they not imagine what a kerfuffle they could be creating? Were they simply assuming a straight-ahead victory by Clinton, so what diff would it make? What's the probability, do ya think, that Obama will ask Hillary to be VP to "unite the party," i.e., "de-alienate" all those older white women voters?
But since we're on the topic of corruption, witch you seem to oppose stamping out of our nations conscience, why don't you just tell us what kind of corruption goes on in Chicago.
Suspend Floridas Statehood until they can provide accurate votes that are 100% transparent.
America is tired of Florida fuckin the country with corrupt voting.
Yup. But you know.. those who believe in the Illuminati would say the whole election process is rigged to an extent. I tend to agree but then again I am politically retarded. ;) *randomness*
I disagree with your murder analogy. It was an unsanctioned race, therefore nothing counts. Mike Tyson's barroom street brawls do not count to his professional record.
I personally would not have apportioned any delegates, but if I had to give the state 50% I would have made them all uncommitted. Obama and whoever took their name off of the ballet were the honorable people. I would never have apportioned any delegates to anybody in an unsanctioned race.
We have NO evidence that Obama has risked AIDS (i.e - that he is gay). (When Obama was 2 years old, his parents divorced, and his father returned to Kenya.) Obama is in excellent health - He often jogs three miles and has no "excess" body fat. He has a healthy blood pressure of 90 over 60, low cholesterol and a strong heart.
Not really. You spoke of shaving off Clintons delegates -- this is indefensible. Why not McCain with 1,700 pages of medical records? Because Obama followed the rules.
Obama is very healthy. He is our hope. Obama being half black and half white is nature's way of uniting the tension between the negro and the caucasian. Neither McCain nor Hillary can offer this.
In college I studied experimental theater and linguistics. I started getting deep into politics immediately after college, working at two non-profits and one presidential campaign (Howard Dean).
Clinton's 49%-43% advantage among registered voters could turn into a 47%-45% lead for McCain if the margins of error are applied like so: 49-4=45 and 43+4=47
I'm glad this is over & the 20 or so votes Clinton gained aren't going to make any difference & are a decent peace offering. The MI answer is the natural outcome of political cowardice. Put a bunch of pols w/ futures in a room w/ a lot of reporters & you will see a race for the middle like this one.
The best thing about this decision is it moves Clinton from arguing the solution is unfair to arguing it's not fair enough - a much trickier position, esp. when it seems generous to her.
The LA Times (March 19, 2007) called Obama the Magic Negro, a figure of postmodern folk culture, coined by snarky 20th century sociologists, to explain such a dynamic cultural figure.
I can't tell if you are an Obama supporter or a Hillary supporter. Just kidding. I guess this was a decent decision, although I feel like it gave Hillary an undeserved advantage. The lesson is, I guess: PLEASE, NO MORE STATES JUMP AHEAD IN THE PRIMARIES WHEN THEY KNOW IT IS GOING TO CAUSE A MESS!!!!
Clinton Supporter Christian's Racist Rant Shows Worst Of America
Harriet Christian,Clinton supporter from Manhattan who's voice you could hear at the committee meeting;
"I'm proud to be an older American woman
The Democrats are throwing the election away. For what? An inadequate black male, who would not have been running had it not been a white woman that was running for president? I can be called white, but you can't be called black. I'm no second class citizen God damn the Democrats"
If Florida insists on continuously fucking up the elections, their Statehood should be suspended pending the development of a 100% transparent and verifiable election process.
America is aware that Florida has become an election tool for the corrupt. If Florida continues to hijack elections, the only fair recourse is to suspend all electoral rights.
As a citizen of Illinois I call on the people of Florida to GET YOUR SHIT STRAIGHT OR GET OUT!!!
Joe, I think this whole system sucks. There's an easier way to this. Abolish the delegate rules and electoral college. Set a date for the primaries like there is for the general election. Whoever gets majority of votes should be nominee. For dems and reps. If people would open their eyes they'd see the people's votes aren't the only factor in deciding. It's so obvious. This is insane. The people should be the only deciding factor. Why is this not discussed more by the people?! Unreal!
oh yeah, one more question - so why do you think it was okay to give FL proportion, but you thought a 50-50 split should have happened in MI?
I also don't believe rude disruption is a good thing - that kind of behavior can lead to violence. We can be passionate without being ridiculous, that is not what happened at this meeting.
So you think Obama should have received 0 delegates and HRC 73, the actual result?
Accept it or not, MI's primary was more 'flawed' (non-requirement of keeping name on ballot) than FL's and therefore a more difficult one to settle. What makes little sense to me is her non-objection to the FL decision but her gripe about 4 delegates taken from her & given to Obama. She lost much more in the FL decision. Besides, she can and will remind them that they can change their minds any time anyway too!
who are these 'people' that have decided that Michigan would count? are they non-partisan? who are the people who ask to play the game and then re-write the rulebook?
The hearing and the penalty were extensions of, not exceptions to, the rules. The committee was made up of people from both campaigns and neutral Democrats.
Maybe next election they won't tell the candidates to withdraw their names from any election no matter what the circumstances. It was that decision that made Michigan such a problem with recognition. This will teach the campaigns in the future to NEVER withdraw your name if you don't want any justification for a whining hissy fit from your opponent later.
How old is a "older" white woman? I almost voted for Hillary in my state's primary, but in the end thought Obama would be the better candidate against the Republican. Now I'm SO glad I didn't vote for Hillary. I know several people who have left her campaign because of her sleazy tactics, and I personally have lost all respect for her.
Great video Joe, I would only argue it wasn't as transparent as it could have been with the 3+ hour "behind closed doors" session as raf365247 mentions. What's the deal with Florida and their elections???
Spot on, Joe! Your best analysis yet. However, I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that the process was "open." There was certainly a public component in that attendance was open to the public and the event was broadcast on TV. But as usual, the real decisions were made behind closed doors. A three and a half hour lunch break? As the Church Lady would say - "How conveeeeenient."
very good point about MI. But if they would ignore the MI voters, and only seat the Fl delegates, that would be unfair as well. MI would say that they are unfairly treated. >If they on the other hand would seat them like it happend in the "real" world, it would be unfair towards Obama and the voters that did not vote because they were told that their votes would not count. Either way, it would have sucked. But u r right.
Anyway, what do u think of this Iraq debate between Obama and Mccain?
You're still in the same place? I thought you would be moved by now. Anyway, thanks for making these things so clear to us. And you're right about the Michigan decision. My .02
Only the Democratic elites could have come up with such a bueracratic and diluted process for selecting their nominee. They champion the voice of the people but set up a "superdelegate" system that goes against that very concept. The very idea that leader in smoke filled rooms have the power to swing nominations against the will of the people is humorous. That is the reason they are in the debacle that they are in. This further divides them and thankfully exposes many more weaknesses.
Good point. I've pondered a lot over this strange 'democratic' voting process myself, but I believe there is merit in having it.
If I was coaching/managing a football team, I would have serious reservations in having my team selected by a democratic vote of the fans. I would hope that my vote would count for a lot more.
The same would go for the superdelegates, who (should) hold far more credibility in their vote than people who make their choice based on personality, gender, race ...
One point of dissent on the "goodness" of passion here:
The Clinton campaign is getting mighty ugly and appealing to the racists. The Clinton fanatics that showed up at the DNC meeting seemed to be angry, older, white folks - mostly women.
As they left, they shouted they were going to vote for the old white guy, John McCain, from the party of White Guys, The Republican Party.
I must say that Hillary's campaign tactics is akin to the swift-boating style of the Republicans in "04.
They broke the schedule rules. The DNC told them not to hold it. The candidates supported the DNC and didn't campaign. I've heard from several Floridians who chose not to participate on the premise that they didn't want to give credibility to the primary, and were waiting for a revote. That's pretty questionable.
They chose not to vote at all or just not for Pres.?
I couldn't vote for ANY of the candidates because at the time I was registered as a INDY, but I still went and voted because of the property tax amendment.
You're saying they had ballot in hand but just didn't fill in a box?
it's understandable that they tried to compromise between the two outcomes in Michigan (Yes Vs No)
but ur point is well-taken.
If they got down to the truth of it, I agree with you (Joe) the election should not have counted, so the compromise is really generous toward the Clinton camp. Yet they r belly-aching more than ever. I'm beginning to believe that a disturbing number of them r going to vote McCain out of spite. Can u offer some rational consolation here? some hope 4 reconciliation?
Our past is some consolation. Losing is always hard, but wounds heal, and people will respond as the discussion changes.
One thing older Democratic women are going to have a very hard time voting for in McCain is the overturning of Roe V. Wade. If the current grudge lasts, then one priority should be to make reproductive rights a central party plank.
I agree- the open process we're seeing is pretty great and the discourse that's opening up is exciting.
mediamoxy 3 years ago
I'm taking my kids to the rally tonight in St. Paul, and my family in Montana are all voting for Obama today. I hope it is a big win and I hope he declares the nomination won. My kids and I will get to witness a little piece of history.
Phloid82 3 years ago
Joe-I love you but you are wrong on this one. I am an older white woman from Michigan and a BIG Obama fan. The local news did a good job encouraging people to go to the polls and vote uncommitted as an option candidates not on the ballot. Hillary only won by 52%- weak under the circumstances. There are those that think. Hillary's gang was quick to make the wrong assumptions about Michigan. Don't get caught up in their brainless frenzy. Some of us older ladies are very sharp.
emergingattitudes 3 years ago
Sorry emerging; didn't mean to group you together with the likes of Harriet Christian.
All the candidates have supporters in all demographics. But Obama is weaker than he should be among women and seniors, so we're probably going to see some messaging directed at shoring these groups up.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
This was a very nice and sensible analysis. What I don't get is how MI and FL ended up going ahead in the first place. Did they not imagine what a kerfuffle they could be creating? Were they simply assuming a straight-ahead victory by Clinton, so what diff would it make? What's the probability, do ya think, that Obama will ask Hillary to be VP to "unite the party," i.e., "de-alienate" all those older white women voters?
nicholas9999 3 years ago
AJAX, Illinois has always been Democratic.
But since we're on the topic of corruption, witch you seem to oppose stamping out of our nations conscience, why don't you just tell us what kind of corruption goes on in Chicago.
Suspend Floridas Statehood until they can provide accurate votes that are 100% transparent.
America is tired of Florida fuckin the country with corrupt voting.
gears2777 3 years ago
hi mate
MarkRitchie1990 3 years ago
Yup. But you know.. those who believe in the Illuminati would say the whole election process is rigged to an extent. I tend to agree but then again I am politically retarded. ;) *randomness*
sweaverit 3 years ago
I disagree with your murder analogy. It was an unsanctioned race, therefore nothing counts. Mike Tyson's barroom street brawls do not count to his professional record.
I personally would not have apportioned any delegates, but if I had to give the state 50% I would have made them all uncommitted. Obama and whoever took their name off of the ballet were the honorable people. I would never have apportioned any delegates to anybody in an unsanctioned race.
dustynbones 3 years ago
Really incredibly ridiculous that they could skew the votes like that. Was it a democratic election? Not in my opinion.
By the way you really confused me, politics isn't just smiles and babies and flags? :D
Kane040 3 years ago
We have NO evidence that Obama has risked AIDS (i.e - that he is gay). (When Obama was 2 years old, his parents divorced, and his father returned to Kenya.) Obama is in excellent health - He often jogs three miles and has no "excess" body fat. He has a healthy blood pressure of 90 over 60, low cholesterol and a strong heart.
emilybarbar 3 years ago
You're kinda coming out of left field, Emily...
JoeFelice 3 years ago
Not really. You spoke of shaving off Clintons delegates -- this is indefensible. Why not McCain with 1,700 pages of medical records? Because Obama followed the rules.
emilybarbar 3 years ago
AIDS, I've never even heard that raise before.
But how would you know when he's release A LETTER FROM HIS DOCTOR?
That does not qualify as "releasing your medical records."
I know we have HIPAA but we're talking about the highest office in this country. More that a page is needed.
---
Same goes for his tax records. Specifically for the year he purchased his home.
And how did he get that lot bought on the same day by a woman who couldn't afford the lot next to the house, Rezko's wife?
AJAX556 3 years ago
Obama is very healthy. He is our hope. Obama being half black and half white is nature's way of uniting the tension between the negro and the caucasian. Neither McCain nor Hillary can offer this.
emilybarbar 3 years ago
And oh, you really deserve more subscribers btw!
samhamels 3 years ago 2
You seriously encourage me to study politican science :)
I'm from Belgium btw.
Have by any chance studies political science in college ?
samhamels 3 years ago
Glad to hear it!
In college I studied experimental theater and linguistics. I started getting deep into politics immediately after college, working at two non-profits and one presidential campaign (Howard Dean).
JoeFelice 3 years ago
Clinton's 49%-43% advantage among registered voters could turn into a 47%-45% lead for McCain if the margins of error are applied like so: 49-4=45 and 43+4=47
emilybarbar 3 years ago
I'm glad this is over & the 20 or so votes Clinton gained aren't going to make any difference & are a decent peace offering. The MI answer is the natural outcome of political cowardice. Put a bunch of pols w/ futures in a room w/ a lot of reporters & you will see a race for the middle like this one.
The best thing about this decision is it moves Clinton from arguing the solution is unfair to arguing it's not fair enough - a much trickier position, esp. when it seems generous to her.
FeelFreeToArgue 3 years ago 2
The LA Times (March 19, 2007) called Obama the Magic Negro, a figure of postmodern folk culture, coined by snarky 20th century sociologists, to explain such a dynamic cultural figure.
emilybarbar 3 years ago
I can't tell if you are an Obama supporter or a Hillary supporter. Just kidding. I guess this was a decent decision, although I feel like it gave Hillary an undeserved advantage. The lesson is, I guess: PLEASE, NO MORE STATES JUMP AHEAD IN THE PRIMARIES WHEN THEY KNOW IT IS GOING TO CAUSE A MESS!!!!
DameDiabolique 3 years ago
Clinton Supporter Christian's Racist Rant Shows Worst Of America
Harriet Christian,Clinton supporter from Manhattan who's voice you could hear at the committee meeting;
"I'm proud to be an older American woman
The Democrats are throwing the election away. For what? An inadequate black male, who would not have been running had it not been a white woman that was running for president? I can be called white, but you can't be called black. I'm no second class citizen God damn the Democrats"
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
If Florida insists on continuously fucking up the elections, their Statehood should be suspended pending the development of a 100% transparent and verifiable election process.
America is aware that Florida has become an election tool for the corrupt. If Florida continues to hijack elections, the only fair recourse is to suspend all electoral rights.
As a citizen of Illinois I call on the people of Florida to GET YOUR SHIT STRAIGHT OR GET OUT!!!
gears2777 3 years ago
How old are you?
Do have ANY idea of the corruption that went on and goes on in Chicago voting?
AJAX556 3 years ago
Joe, I think this whole system sucks. There's an easier way to this. Abolish the delegate rules and electoral college. Set a date for the primaries like there is for the general election. Whoever gets majority of votes should be nominee. For dems and reps. If people would open their eyes they'd see the people's votes aren't the only factor in deciding. It's so obvious. This is insane. The people should be the only deciding factor. Why is this not discussed more by the people?! Unreal!
pices1970 3 years ago
oh yeah, one more question - so why do you think it was okay to give FL proportion, but you thought a 50-50 split should have happened in MI?
I also don't believe rude disruption is a good thing - that kind of behavior can lead to violence. We can be passionate without being ridiculous, that is not what happened at this meeting.
cdgonsalves 3 years ago
For the same reason you called Michigan more flawed. I think the two states straddle a certain threshold of legitimacy.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
So you think Obama should have received 0 delegates and HRC 73, the actual result?
Accept it or not, MI's primary was more 'flawed' (non-requirement of keeping name on ballot) than FL's and therefore a more difficult one to settle. What makes little sense to me is her non-objection to the FL decision but her gripe about 4 delegates taken from her & given to Obama. She lost much more in the FL decision. Besides, she can and will remind them that they can change their minds any time anyway too!
cdgonsalves 3 years ago
The hearing and the penalty were part of following the rules.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
who are these 'people' that have decided that Michigan would count? are they non-partisan? who are the people who ask to play the game and then re-write the rulebook?
0c4pnh4nk 3 years ago
The hearing and the penalty were extensions of, not exceptions to, the rules. The committee was made up of people from both campaigns and neutral Democrats.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
oh common joe that joke in the beginning was of bad taste... i mean common its only the the size of a thumb???
EatMyRice 3 years ago
lol if that's what I meant I wouldn't have looked behind me!
JoeFelice 3 years ago
Maybe next election they won't tell the candidates to withdraw their names from any election no matter what the circumstances. It was that decision that made Michigan such a problem with recognition. This will teach the campaigns in the future to NEVER withdraw your name if you don't want any justification for a whining hissy fit from your opponent later.
Bytefiend 3 years ago
I think it's Michigan that shouldn't have allowed it. Florida didn't allow it and they held a better election with a fairer result.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
How old is a "older" white woman? I almost voted for Hillary in my state's primary, but in the end thought Obama would be the better candidate against the Republican. Now I'm SO glad I didn't vote for Hillary. I know several people who have left her campaign because of her sleazy tactics, and I personally have lost all respect for her.
knibbles1882 3 years ago
The polls usually put it at 60+, but that's totally arbitrary. We could say baby boomers.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
Hey Joe, I've been wondering. When the fated day comes and the elections are finally over in the fall, will you still be making videos?
If so, what about? I hope you do
goergegavin 3 years ago
Politics never stops, George. But there are other subjects I would like to cover as well this summer. We'll see what I can squeeze in.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
DNC should have just stuck to their guns!
Steadno 3 years ago
Spot on!
I rate this the usual 5 boring stars.
saikoza 3 years ago
Yay! I am a needed semi older white woman!!! hehe.... Yes your followers are mostly very smart people. Smart people that love your videos! ~hugs~
Keep up the great work!
combustication07 3 years ago
Great video Joe, I would only argue it wasn't as transparent as it could have been with the 3+ hour "behind closed doors" session as raf365247 mentions. What's the deal with Florida and their elections???
gstockton 3 years ago
Spot on, Joe! Your best analysis yet. However, I'm not sure I agree with your assertion that the process was "open." There was certainly a public component in that attendance was open to the public and the event was broadcast on TV. But as usual, the real decisions were made behind closed doors. A three and a half hour lunch break? As the Church Lady would say - "How conveeeeenient."
raf365247 3 years ago
very good point about MI. But if they would ignore the MI voters, and only seat the Fl delegates, that would be unfair as well. MI would say that they are unfairly treated. >If they on the other hand would seat them like it happend in the "real" world, it would be unfair towards Obama and the voters that did not vote because they were told that their votes would not count. Either way, it would have sucked. But u r right.
Anyway, what do u think of this Iraq debate between Obama and Mccain?
justcallmesoso 3 years ago
I think he should go, if that's what you're referring to.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
You're still in the same place? I thought you would be moved by now. Anyway, thanks for making these things so clear to us. And you're right about the Michigan decision. My .02
SirChadwic 3 years ago
August first
JoeFelice 3 years ago
Only the Democratic elites could have come up with such a bueracratic and diluted process for selecting their nominee. They champion the voice of the people but set up a "superdelegate" system that goes against that very concept. The very idea that leader in smoke filled rooms have the power to swing nominations against the will of the people is humorous. That is the reason they are in the debacle that they are in. This further divides them and thankfully exposes many more weaknesses.
truthforamerica 3 years ago 2
Good point. I've pondered a lot over this strange 'democratic' voting process myself, but I believe there is merit in having it.
If I was coaching/managing a football team, I would have serious reservations in having my team selected by a democratic vote of the fans. I would hope that my vote would count for a lot more.
The same would go for the superdelegates, who (should) hold far more credibility in their vote than people who make their choice based on personality, gender, race ...
saikoza 3 years ago
You don't know your own process, man. Roughly 120, or about 6% of Republican delegates are unelected, unpledged party leaders.
The big difference this year is that the Republican race isn't close enough to need their votes in the deciding.
So much for the "only the Democratic elites" hyperbole...
JoeFelice 3 years ago
Joe,
One point of dissent on the "goodness" of passion here:
The Clinton campaign is getting mighty ugly and appealing to the racists. The Clinton fanatics that showed up at the DNC meeting seemed to be angry, older, white folks - mostly women.
As they left, they shouted they were going to vote for the old white guy, John McCain, from the party of White Guys, The Republican Party.
I must say that Hillary's campaign tactics is akin to the swift-boating style of the Republicans in "04.
Ralphdraw3 3 years ago
WTH do you mean FL held the election "under questionable conditions?"
AJAX556 3 years ago
They broke the schedule rules. The DNC told them not to hold it. The candidates supported the DNC and didn't campaign. I've heard from several Floridians who chose not to participate on the premise that they didn't want to give credibility to the primary, and were waiting for a revote. That's pretty questionable.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
They chose not to vote at all or just not for Pres.?
I couldn't vote for ANY of the candidates because at the time I was registered as a INDY, but I still went and voted because of the property tax amendment.
You're saying they had ballot in hand but just didn't fill in a box?
AJAX556 3 years ago
Some people stayed home. But that is a valid comeback.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
it's understandable that they tried to compromise between the two outcomes in Michigan (Yes Vs No)
but ur point is well-taken.
If they got down to the truth of it, I agree with you (Joe) the election should not have counted, so the compromise is really generous toward the Clinton camp. Yet they r belly-aching more than ever. I'm beginning to believe that a disturbing number of them r going to vote McCain out of spite. Can u offer some rational consolation here? some hope 4 reconciliation?
peace
baronmorris 3 years ago
Our past is some consolation. Losing is always hard, but wounds heal, and people will respond as the discussion changes.
One thing older Democratic women are going to have a very hard time voting for in McCain is the overturning of Roe V. Wade. If the current grudge lasts, then one priority should be to make reproductive rights a central party plank.
JoeFelice 3 years ago
"then one priority should be to make reproductive rights a central party plank."
I'd gladly take on that fight.
Obama is a radical when it comes to abortion.
So radical he'll push people away.
AJAX556 3 years ago
Have a look at these video from the protest yesterday. Many say they'll go for McCain.
profile_videos?user=howarddean19&p=r
AJAX556 3 years ago