Do Mutations Prove Evolution (LOL =)

[feraligatr8]

Mutations can be good or bad, the bad ones kill the organisms and the good ones make it stronger and more evolutionary fit.

[Casshyr]

@feraligatr8 you forgot the 3rd category: neutral. Most mutations are neutral, they neither harm or benefit the organism. This called polymorphisms. If you compare my genome to yours, you will find we differ in DNA nucleotide composition 1 in ~ every 1000bp! Now multiply that by our 3 billion long DNA sequence...that's a lot of difference, and all of them do not cause any health detriments (at least according to our current vast medical knowledge)

[MrBeiragua]

Misquotation of Ken Miller. Fallacious argument, using one lab morphological change in flies to say that it is not possible to mutations to produce good changes. What would you say about people that are born without appendix, or without wisdom tooth?

[gupsphoo]

This is a straw man. Mutations are not a proof of evolution, but a essential component of it.

[HighFlyingDutchman]

@gupsphoo

sure they are not proof of evolution,my friend

i had posted a series against the actual so called proofs of evolution and their titles were always "Does ... prove evolution"

and the "lol" at the end points to that,of course not

[HighFlyingDutchman]

actually nothing in the world or in the universe or in the other dimensions can ever prove the claim that a zombie bacteria turned into you in "enough years"

but for variation,natural selection,adaptation,there are tons of evidence which actually do not bring any real new information to the existing gene pool at all

peace

[MrBeiragua]

@HighFlyingDutchman You really don't read scientific magazines, don't you?

[HighFlyingDutchman]

@MrBeiragua

i am a biology student at uni 3rd year

[gupsphoo]

@HighFlyingDutchman Patriot Bible University, or something equivalent, I bet.

[killingrang]

watch video

facepalm

[Bodzilla1]

@killingrang

BUT DA HURRRRR EVOLUTIONS NOT REAL CAUSE I CLOSE MY EYES PUT MY FINGERS IN MY EARS AND SAY NAANANAANNANA"

GODDD U ATHEISTS AND YOU AGENDA! and sense and reason and logic and facts and research.

god these tards make me facepalm so hard.

[Eyedunno]

The thing about changes in proteins not leading to changes in morphology is just retarded. One different amino acid can result in radical differences in tertiary and quaternary structures, which can mean a change in a tissue, which in turn can affect other tissues (for example, a difference in a bone can cause differences in the muscles that anchor to that bone with absolutely no change in the genes that code for the muscle itself).

[ColBrokov]

Further This Paul Nelson that comments is emphatically not an expert on the subject. His doctorate is not in science but in philosophy. He has just as much justification to call himself a "philosopher of biology" as he does a "philosopher of chemistry", or of physics, or for anything else that he wants to claim credibility for. The guy has published nothing in biology. That is the kind of "expert" that the creationists can muster.

[Eyedunno]

@ColBrokov

That's an appeal to authority though. It shouldn't matter if all they can muster are janitors and shoeshine boys if those janitors and shoeshine boys make solid arguments. Nelson doesn't make solid arguments, but that's what we should be attacking, not Nelson himself.

[ColBrokov]

Did these dopes completely miss where Dr. Miller said that these mutations were not evidence of evolution "but of the ability of the genetic toolkit to produce very sudden and dramatic changes in an organism's morphology"? This important qualification is completely ignored by the rest of the video, which goes on to build a straw man argument as if these mutations were evidence of evolution. Do these people have any credibility at all?

[LasserMauro]

Evolution is suppossed to be random!!!

[SpiritFist]

IC was shown to be totally inaccurate with explaining any organism whatsoever. The Eye, the blood clotting cascade, the flagellum all been shown to be capable of evolution

[AALSHERRI]

Can anyone tell me how mutation can create a human sperm in a male and a human egg in a female by random chance? Atheists are idiots.

[firthio2]

You can google the evolution of reproductive systems.

Anyway, evolution is actually not fundamentally linked with atheism in any way. Atheists were around a long time before the Theory of Evolution, or the process of evolution was observed.

[FahadKhan1988]

Ah you are an smarter Atheïst.

[SpiritFist]

did tyou find some research you disagree with?

[derek24hudson]

'Do mutations prove evolution?. No, and no-one ever said they did. Back to sleep...yawn, yawn.

[HighFlyingDutchman]

see maybe the meaning of (LOL :) is that already!

good night anyway

[Energyium]

which means that there is a common ancestor

because they are so closely related that they produce offsprings

it was separation of the population overtime that caused the slight difference

like between the wolf and the dog

BUT the irreducible complexity like the eye and all the organs of the body refutes evolution

I thing it is combination of creation and evolution that is the mechanism behind it all

[firthio2]

'BUT the irreducible complexity like the eye and all the organs of the body refutes evolution' There are still no known cases of 'irreducible complexity'. The eye, flagella, immune system (all popular examples) have all benn discredited and shown to be reducible

[Energyium]

irreducible complexity realy makes me question evolution

but then the mating between a lion and tiger produces liger

and between horse and donkey a mule and between a dog and wolf a wolfdog

which indicates that they had common ancestor and evolved

so i am really confused

[albitaly]

The irreducible complexity thing is wrong in every case, actually.

[LoricaLady]

Thanks for posting this. If years ago I had undetstood even basic, simple, statistical probabilities I would have realized how absurd it is to assume that any kind of mutations would ever lead to the literally uncounted trillions of changes that would have to occur to turn one species into another. Just one of all the species. By accident. Rolling eyes. People don't stop to think that every such hypothetical change must lead not just to "progress" but a whole reengineering of the animal.

[thisissick22]

"basic statistical probabilities" how many years do you believe it takes for trillions of mutations to occur?

[LoricaLady]

Try to find one "beneficial" mutation that isn't debated by evolutiolnists themselves as being an improvement to any life form. Mutations mess things up. Look at the fruit fly experiments. Why do women wear lead aprons? To PREVENT mutations. As Dr. Berlinksi says,

When you add new, random, data to a system, like a computer, you mess it up! See Dr. B's vids. He's a matematician /AND a post doctoral fellow in micro biology, & not a Christian. NO experiments show mutations create improvements.

[thisissick22]

are you aware of the peppered moth? it is an example of an observed beneficial mutation.

[LoricaLady]

My poor, dear misguided friend. The peppered moth was debunnked decades ago, even by evolutionists, as any kind of example of evoluition but apparently it is still in the text books. Not surprising. Sometimes so is ontology recapitulates phylongeny, an admitted hoaxe. You really need to read the other side on that. But here is one simple fact: Every one of those peppered moths stayed peppered moths in every way.

[thisissick22]

What do you mean by "debunnked"?

Also "each one of those peppered moths stayed peppered moths in every way" Yes. It is an example of what creationists would call microevolution. however, it demonstrates that adaptation takes place through natural selection - the process of evolution. if you understand the theory, you would know that no one claims that formation of new species happens as rapidly!

[LoricaLady]

thisissick22 - Check it out for yourself about the peppered moths - very easy to find on the net. There is no proof that adaption or natural selection lead to evolution. Darwin's finches, for ex. all stayed finches and really they were just showing their usual cyclic variations. Farmers have been "naturally adapting" animals for thousands of years. Pigs stay pigs & cows stay cows, though.. I'm sorry to say that teaching natural selection as evolution is an unproven lie we have been taught.

[thisissick22]

"usual cyclic variations" what are you talking about? natural selection is what the theory of evolution is based on! you obviously dont understand the theory as no one ever said that a pig would or could evolve into a cow! they are from different branches on the evolutionary tree - if you go back long enough, they would share a common ancestor, as we all do.

[LoricaLady]

So we have been taught. Over & over. Have you watched this vid? So often people get on here w/o watching the vids, leaving red herrings all over the place. There is no experimental evidence for evolution. The fruit flies experiment showed the opposite. Farmers don't get evolving animals. You are being lied to.  I only have so much time, friend. If you will really listen to the creationist SCIENTISTS vids you will start to more and more have you eyes opened.

'Sup to you. Bye and blessings!

[thisissick22]

I can see why you believe what you do. it is because you believe in god. the problem is that the bible is not accurate, in terms of science or history. therefore you have to come up with new ways to justify your beliefs. i mean, please tell me you dont believe in adam and eve, or noah's ark!?

[LoricaLady]

Your question is a red herring distracting from this video's facts. I never mentioned Scriptures. Since you asked I believe in Adam & Eve. I also believe in the Flood & that there is plenty of fossil & other scientific evidence to back it up. However, one does not need the Bible to defeat Darwinism, only real, as opposed to pseudo, science. Again, your question is a red herring. If you want to "defeat" any creationist read Dr. Parker's Creation Facts of Life. Truly, I have to go now.

[thisissick22]

OK go. i wont stop you. but your admission of believing the nonsense contained in the bible exposes the level of your credibility. you cannot expect to be taken seriously.

[LoricaLady]

Siigh. Hopefully my last response. Why?

Because I myself was once a major victim of illogical evolutionary sloppy think. You just used another major logical fallacy while trying to be scientific. And you are so smug about it. Rolling eyes.

Evolutionary arguments, as I have seen over and over, are based on untested assumptions and a multiplicity of logical fallacies. Learn logical fallacies. For real.

Check your evolutioonary literature for them. They run wild. I pray you do. Bye for real.

[thisissick22]

Haha. very funny. as i said, you have zero credibility with regard to science. i hope that was your last response too. please stop replying if you dont want to. "evolutionary sloppy think" are you a comedian? Religion is soooo scientific! what a joke.

[ali921812]

alright ill check it out and tell you the arguments i found against nylonase

i cant tell you the arguments without knowing the subject

[ali921812]

and the few cases include nylonase

what is nylonase exactly?

[ali921812]

can you explain because i have heard the argument against it without understanding what it is

[ali921812]

no it isnt mutation is a change in original creation

so it is always going to be harmful for a species whether it is by competition between others speciesof its kind or maybe just lacking the ability to survive due to the mutation

[Oo786oO]

This video is actually against evolution and tries to disprove it!

[LoricaLady]

There's more than they've shown, also. The extra set of wings were not only a hindrance, they were a product of (gasp!) intelligent design, because they came from a human laboratory experiment. Further, the experiment is a total flop in proving what it set out to prove, i.e. that evolutioin can produce new species. Every one of those generally ugly and deformed bugs stayed...fruit flies! I think this is the only example of the scientific method being used to prove evoluiton and it backfired.

[CBALLEN]

With as many experiments that have been done of fruit flies, in the lab,they should be bumble bees or crickets by now,but no,all they are is a bunch of crippled up fruit flies.Evolution is a hoax people,things were made with variation but they stay within there kind,that's what all the evidence shows.

[hitoallandme]

I recommend Jonathan Wells research the monkeyflower (Mimulus) family and possibly rethink his weak argument.

[iSmellBullShite]

all taken out of context of course!!! *

[FahadKhan1988]

We are waiting for a month now, where is the context

[qabala]

This video claims that morphological changes due to mutation are selected out by natrual selection.

Here are some morphological changes due to mutation that are beneficial:

Flavobacterium developed a new metabolic pathway to ingest nylon, which has only been around for just over 50 years.

Italian wall lizards released in Croatia and then recollected 50 years later had developed new internal structures.

The list can continue, but the video claims none exist. Obviously the video is wrong.

[joebot1]

Zing!!.

Slam dunk!.

[xBiscuitPowerx]

yus so smaklr

[FfantasyF]

hahaha well well mr genius xD u against professors eh xD or with ur friends where everything started out of nothing xd

[qabala]

Beside the fact that your post is an "argument from authority" fallacy, there is only one professor I recognized in the entire video (Ken Miller) and he happens to agree with me.

Who said everything came from nothing? That isn't even part of evolutionary theory.

Try knowing what you're refuting.

[FfantasyF]

well, not mentioning an authoity doesnt mean they r none :) besides that, the WHOLE evolution theory is based on "It was the nature", so when something happens, its the nature, and when we ask for the reason of it, the answer is "Well, it happens!!" so its a retoric without a proof:) and there is NEVER EVER something prover that the theory does explain how and why something evolved:) The whole biology explains y the theory is failing, but u wont c it, becuz u simply IGNORE it:)

[qabala]

Before you refute the charge of being an "argument from authority" fallacy, I would seriously encourage you to look up what the definition of the term is.

The whole evolutionary theory is based on scientific observation. It is a fact that allele frequencies change.

The theoretical part is the mechanisms and lineages associated with it.

Science is not about "why". Religion is about "why". Try not to confuse the two.

[FfantasyF]

The evolution theory is based on natural selection (which is based on variation, reproduction, and selection) and genetic drift... Ofc the order and the frequency change, becuz its a combination of stuff, but that aint a mutation... Where do they 2 correlate? So the whole THEORETICAL part can be refused due to the exploration of the DNA:) do a research on DNA and ull understand why:)

Ur last sentence aint true either, becuz WHY would (in ur perception) DNA would change? It's fitten already

[FfantasyF]

*the order and frequency of the allel

[qabala]

Natural selection is a mechanism that catalyzes evolution. The observation of evolution was made long before natural selection and mutation were ever proposed. Genetic drift wasn't part of the theory until much later (genes hadn't been discovered yet).

Regardless of how YOU define "mutation", or why you think allele frequencies change, mutations DO happen. You, in fact, have at least one hundred mutations not shared with either of your parents and you WILL pass them on (if you reproduce).

[FfantasyF]

also, the motivation of science is the question "WHY" :) And Relegion is the the answer to all the "Why's" :) and they both 2 can be used together while empowering each other:) The Quran and science is the proof:)

[qabala]

If someone asks "Why is the water boiling?"

The scientific answer is, "Because the water temperature is at the point where it becomes steam". There is no "intent" in the scientific answer.

The religious answer to "why" will always involve intent or purpose.

They sure can be used together. That's why I actually study the science instead of misrepresenting it to try to conflate my own views on the Quran.

I cited morphological changes due to mutation. Either refute my points or concede them.

[FfantasyF]

well this will be a long discussion, so to keep it short: I redute them:) had enough discussons on this topic, and ive never seen a prove:) well, GL and cya ;)

[Yaymudkip]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

How about this then:

Why does the quran says that the stars is a lamp missile to fend of vs devils?

Science? Fuckno

[FfantasyF]

@Yaymudkip WEll give me the chapter and verse where in the Quran it is, so I can see it:)

[Yaymudkip]

Understood, give me a minute and I'll dig it up for you.

[Yaymudkip]

Surah 67:5] And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

[FfantasyF]

@Yaymudkip Yeah and wots the problem about that verse? that it aint scientific?

[Yaymudkip]

That it's bullshit is the problem. ;)

[FfantasyF]

@Yaymudkip r u religious?

[Yaymudkip]

No, I'm a anti theist.

[FfantasyF]

@Yaymudkip Ok, that's the reason y u ought it funny, maybe u should read the Quran and focus ESPECIALLY on those parts where Allah's telling about the beautiness of the world and universe, and not with the angels... Maybe that can bring u on another idea about Allah, Islam and the angels:)

[Yaymudkip]

And ignore the stupid parts?

Is that how you do it?

Being willfully ignorant of the laughable bullshit of islam and only saying '''but it has angels ^___^!''

I'm sorry, but I want to know the truth. I don't want a pretty pet religion with belief in the nonexistant. Angels, allah, devils, magic. It's all pathethic nonsense to me.

[FfantasyF]

@Yaymudkip Lol u didnt read my sentence that well m8, if u r reading the Quran the same way, it will be a problem 4 u to understand it xP /jk I said "and focus ESPECIALLY on those parts..." The problem is, u dont believe in Allah, and he is also the creater of the angels, so if u dont believe in ALlah, u wont believe in his angels... Logic.. But there is enough prove that Allah has always will and been there, so r angels and y do u think that Allah is non-existent? becuz u cant see him?

[Yaymudkip]

So what am I supposed to do with the stupid parts?

You havent told me. What do you do to that part?

Do you ignore the fact that the quran says that stars are lamps, something that they clearly arent? (Trust me, this isnt the only stupid line the quran has)

Prove allah, then. Go ahead, do it!

[FfantasyF]

@ Yaymudkip There r no stupid parts in the Quran, all r miracles:) About the stars being lamps for us; About ur own lamp in ur room: Wot does it do with ur chamber? Can u tell me that? R u c'ing similarities with the world and the sun (a star)? So it aint weird Allah's speaking about the stars as lamps, aint it:) And look @ ur body m8, look how wonderful it is, perfect! everything that's around us, has been made by some1, every book has an author, every art an artist. so does ur body, He's Allah

[Yaymudkip]

It is weird, because they ARENT lamps. If a caveman wrote it then yes, it's understandable that this stupid silly ignorant caveman thought they were lamps. But you'd expect something better from a all knowing god.

What about my body? Atm I'm sick, my nose is stuffed and I'm coughing constantly. Gee, nice going, god. It's not perfectt at all. And even if it was, it still wouldnt prove a god. And ESPECIALLY not allah.

Prove that ALLAH exists with EVIDENCE, thanks.

[FfantasyF]

(1) Quran is for all times and places, not only for this time and place. Just wonder that u would tell a person @ the year 600 that the sun is a Huge flaming ball with hunderds of burning elements in it, which gives light and heat at its arroundings and it doesnt consume anything around its environment but it consumes himself... would they believe it? I don't think so:) So it had to be that way, so it's for all places and times, becuz even now we assume the sun as heat and light giving fireball

[FfantasyF]

(2) Like wot a lamp is for the chamber, the sun is for its environemt.. and beside this EVIDENCE, the Quran is a book whom is talking for Allah's sake, not for the sun's sake.. the complexity, "eternalaty" and stability of the sun shows that it has been made by the Most Powerful, cuz wouldnt it be weird that the sun would stop at the exact spot which is good for us and for the sun, becuz it doesnt expand and destroys the universe? And now my question to u? Can u prove that there is no Allah???

[Yaymudkip]

Are you saying that Allah, a OMNIPOTENT god(you know, someone who can do ANYTHING) can't do the simple task of explaining what the fucking SUN is? Are you insane? I learned what the sun was when I was 11 years old dude.

You can't prove allah. You can't find evidence. You can just bring me sloppy evidence for a objective god, even if you did manage to prove the existance of god; There are litterally thousands of em, prove ALLAH!

Can you prove that there are no unicorns?

[HighFlyingDutchman]

Yaymudkip

can you please tell what kind of evidence are you looking for?

also please bring the exact verse about Sun you are talking about

thanks

[Yaymudkip]

Surah 67:5.

Evidence that would hold up in a scientific court.

[HighFlyingDutchman]

And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.

Quran 67-5

This can be a metaphor or some kind of unseen thing just like the evil ones in this verse (shayateen in Arabic-satans)

OK,i already guessed that it would be scientific but for example..?

a scientist "seeing" God or getting connection..?

[Yaymudkip]

I don't care about your interpetations, sorry. I never pay attention to apologists. It's bullshit and it's supposed to be the ultimate truth, it isnt.

Evidence that would be holding up at a scientific court: something you could present in a scientific court which could be tested, analysed ect and which would, without a doubt PROVE the existance of ALLAH.

[HighFlyingDutchman]

"And only those who are devoid of knowledge say,

'Why does God not speak unto us,nor is a miraculous sign shown to us?'

Even thus,like unto what they say,spoke those who lived before their time,their hearts are all alike.

Indeed,We have made all the signs manifest unto people who are endowed with inner certainty."

Quran 2;118***

so,in some way,Quran answers your question

you will not find a proof like you want

but you are living in a sea of signs

you can realize them using your mind honestly

[Yaymudkip]

So you wont be able to prove your god.

Yes or no?

Also, infinity is a very likely possibility in cosmology, I suppose you've never studied it? No?

Then why the FUCK are you even talking about how the universe must be created and such if you havent spent a godamn second researcing it?

I'm no longer intrested in this discussion, all you can do is mention a bounch of cryptic bullshit, you cant prove anything.

[FfantasyF]

Hehe we've proven it enough my friend, but u just wanna c Allah fysically, but that wont happen:) But u will understand it one day, In$aAllah in this world, but for sure in the hereafter... I hope this will be an eye-opener for u, so u will c the world in another way:) Everything is clear m8, just for those who wanna c it:) Gl m8 :) (Y)

[Yaymudkip]

No, you didnt prove anything.

Going from your grammar, you repeating arguments that I already smashed down and the fact that you think you actually made a good case with that I'm guessing you're retarded, but I'll try anyway:

He told me that I need to accept the existance of a Creator and then go ahead and read scriptures and try to find divine signs.

So

1. Trick myself into believing in a creator, illogical.

2. Fool myself into believing in ''signs''

It's bullshit, wake up.

[HighFlyingDutchman]

wow,ease up dude

we are not forcing you into anything here

you are still alone with your free will :D

2nd law of thermodynamics..?

let me explain the "proving" thing

first,I dont need to prove the existence of your Creator to you,you will face the results of your ideas or your deeds yourself already

also,the important thing is hereafter and if I "prove" the existence of God to you and you believe then,you will get a ticket to heaven?

if I cant you will just go on

so why this anger to me?

[Yaymudkip]

Anger?

To you?

You're wrong on both accounts. That message was not even to you, it was me responding to the simpleton.

I'm not intrested in your heaven, I simply responded to what you said.

You asked me what proof I wanted, I wanted evidence with substance, and you KNOW you can't offer that so you offer me laughable arguments that have been shot down OVER and OVER for years now(''There has to be a creator!'')

zzzz

Whatever, I'm done with you.

[HighFlyingDutchman]

what can i do if you have eyes but you cant "see" with them

if you have a heart and you cant "feel" with it

and especially

if you have a soul and you deny it

peace anyway

[FfantasyF]

Ma m8 gave the right answer, you should c everything ur watching... Look at the cells in ur body, biologically, look how it's made, let's go deeper, the mitochondrian, miraclous, again deeper, The DNA, INCREDIBLE... Or is it the nature/coincidence which made it and makes it EVERYTIME, becuz it still goes on... or is it the program in it which regulates everything...? All those cells having massive interactions among them? Coincidence or Allah? Ur brain: Coincende or Allah? Atoms: Coinc or Allah

[Yaymudkip]

You're retarded. Sorry, but you are. I shot down your argument the FIRST TIME you tried doing it and you STILL insist on repeating it.

You are without a doubt retarded, mentally challanged, ect.

Bye to you too now.

[FfantasyF]

hehe it's not me who is retarded, it's u who dont wanna c it :) y dont u give me the answer @ ma questions?:) Can u answer them then and not avoid them (About the miraclenous of the body)? Tnx:) I rly wanna know ur answer :)

[Yaymudkip]

Oh god, I was reading through my comments for lols and just saw what you wrote

2nd law of themrodynamics was you trying to prove that you know about cosmology?

Are you fuckigng serious? Do you even know what it says?

It says that the earth is a close system, which it isnt.

Truly tragic, you do know that people make fun of this argument nowadays do you?

Here, here is one video mocking your pathethic tragic laughable argument.

Is this all you can offer as proof? PATHETHIC!

[HighFlyingDutchman]

the universal principle of entropy, stating that the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium

remember,the higher the entropy, the higher the disorder

thats a little bit different than your explanation

but i shall still watch the video you sent,as i said

cheers

[Serpico261]

@HighFlyingDutchman haha, i didnt know the earth is a closed system...entropy is a little bit too complicated for you

[HighFlyingDutchman]

@Serpico261

i never meant that exactly...

but anyway,thanks for your comment

[csakegyvid]

@Serpico261 he wasnt talking about the earth, it is about the model of evolution, we can put it in the solar system just as well or in the galaxy or in the universe.... entropy does work out of space as well. I know evolutionists have answers for every problem, such in the case of entropy, the real question are those answers probable?

[Serpico261]

@csakegyvid its a creationist argument anyway. Its not easy to have a good overview about creationist argumentation when so many absurd claims are made by so many people.

I agree with you that probability is an important factor, so i do factor in that question. How probable are virgin births? Nohas ark? muhammed flying with a magic horse up to the sky?

[csakegyvid]

@Serpico261 i wasnt talking about nohas ark nor virgin birth, i just tried to point out that some of the evolutionist claims are not very probable such as mutation. i dont belive in the ortodox way of creation, i belive in degeneration (or reverse-evolution), which does not need mutation and still explains the diversity of spieces. There are very few ppl who even know about this reverse-evolution theory, but i do think it is much closer to the reality than anything else.

[Serpico261]

@csakegyvid honestly i havent heared about reverse evolution before....not in the sense you explaining. I have to do a bit research on this before i can respond to that

[csakegyvid]

@Serpico261 you wont find anything, it is secret knowledge, im already in trouble for mentioning it :D you will hear about that in about two month but it is a classified project...

[FfantasyF]

Wot we now think is laughable, was once a brilliant idea, think about the wheel (Or cell phone atm) :) So its the time that makes something normal.. besides that, as I said, the Quran is there for the sake of Allah, not the sun:)

Some questions m8, plz answer them:

When there is a book, who wrote it?

When there is an art, who made it?

When there is something technical, who has done it?

When there is a program written, who wrote it?

Can u plz answer these questions, then I will go on

[Yaymudkip]

Sigh, did you even read what I said?

You're not ''proving'' allah with the shitty case you're doing. You're just proving ''a creator''. There are over hundreds of thousands of gods, deities, demi gods, aliens and other thoughts which could have been the ''creators''.

And the logic you're going to use on me doesnt even hold up. Who created god? If god doesn't need to be created, can't you say the same for the universe?

[FfantasyF]

When u look at the equilibrium of the universe, u c a perfect one.. That's the prove that it has been made by 1 person.. Like USA has 1 president, a town 1 mayor, so does the universe have 1 creator, otherwise the equilibrum wouldnt be there... and nope it's not the same for the universe, becuz the universe is something which is here, material, and changes over time, but that doesnt count for Allah, becuz he is not related to a place and to the tim":) HUGE differnces

[HighFlyingDutchman]

if you accept the existence of any Creator

then the time shall come for you to check the scriptures and try to find divine signs in any of them which can not have been made by human beings

if you find none after a long search,you can continue your life being a non-religious theist or deist

but first you need to answer the first question

btw,there must have always been something in order for any existence to be able to exist

and thats not the universe according to the laws of physics

[FfantasyF]

Thanks m8 xD I know the answer is the Quran itsself, but i dont know where they r written:) but Well yeah, it's clear we came from Allah and we will return to Allah, and at the hereafter, they will speak to each other like there life was a couple days, and the smart ones will say that it was shorter than 1 day... So i just wanna make it clear, i dont wanna get in discussion:) Elhamdoulillah we're muslims, may Allah help every human being :) Shoekran again m8:)

Ps. Ben ook een nederlander xP

[HighFlyingDutchman]

mashaAllah bro

maar ik ben niet: D

[FfantasyF]

hehe xD Ik ben eigenlijk een Turk die in Nederland woont xD Maar ja heb sowieso een probleem met het begrip identiteit, liever identificatie , maar ja ELhamdoulillah zijn we ZEKER moslims xD

[HighFlyingDutchman]

Hollanda'ya Ankara'dan selamlar kardeş :D :D :D

sürpriiz :)

[FfantasyF]

haha xD Eskiden hollandadami kaliyordun? yoksa halenmi hollandadasin?

[theheat151]

Ev-illusionists are fruitflies themselves.