i'm a student loan borrower and I actually agree with this......stop your whining and just pay back the money. work like hell to do it.....we're still young and a little work won't hurt us. If yu use the debt snowball method you can possibly pay it all back in less time. Gotta sacrifice though. Might have to live off rice and beans for awhile but it's not IMPOSSIBLE to pay back the money. Let's live up to our responsibility graduates....we're adults now.
I like how he said that most students graduate owing just 25 thousand and they have 10 years before they can pay it off.. that is a bunch a bull shit. my kids are paying 40-70 percent more than what I did. this is nothing more than a bunch of lies.
reason 1 is very misleading...they have to go to college...they have to get a job...you need college to get a job...don't want to push it too far, but it's kinda about survival...25K?? lightweights...many are well over 50K...finally, there's no economic reason tuition is so high...it's deliberately pushed that high but undermining state budgets w/ tax cuts and designed with banks (who reap the profits of many student loans) interests in mind
"finally, there's no economic reason tuition is so high."
Sure there is, in fact, it's one of the most basic economic principles. it's called inflation.
When the Gov't allowed for the Stafford loans to be given out despite parental income they flooded the tuition market with money and the prices went up. With more people bidding for the same scarce (technically) resource, this is a completely natural market phenomenon.
People said this but the Gov't didn't care because it looks good on paper.
Ok first off, the government is usually what gives out student loads, it should not, what has happened in out society is education inflation so many people have degrees that they now become mandatory for many jobs that they are not needed, most jobs all someone needs is some on the job training. Easy student loans has made Degrees rather worthless, example in France getting a degree is free, in France a masters or phd is the norm, and become like a certificate of graduation for high school.
@topperheartramada If it is a government/taxpayer subsidized loan, you MUST pay, it even survives bankruptcy, based on the current law. However, if you become a teacher in a poorly performing area, your debt becomes slowly forgiven.
Are these fucking tools aware bailout money is taxpayer money, meaning bailing out their dumb asses generates a _net loss_ as more and more people become poor? Just because YOU fucked up doesn't mean you get to drag ME into YOUR personal hell.
THEY ARE NOT VOLUNTARY, YOU DONT HAVE A CHOICE IN THE 21ST CENTURY. LET THE BANKERS WHO TANKED THE ECONOMY PAY FOR THEM. ALSO THAT AVERAGE OF 25K IS BULL. I HAVE 97K COUNTING ACCUMULATED INTEREST SINCE GRADUATING.
I do think education should be free, But student loan borrowers shouldn't be bailed out. Doing so would be encouraging irresponsibility. With the already irresponsible choice of taking a loan you can't afford to pay back.
Just the same problem as the housing crisis. Loans made that the originators knew had very little chance of ever being repaid in full, all in the name of short term profits.
obviouslt we shouldn't bail out student debt but if I had to choose between bailing out banks and forgiving student debt I would bail the students out!
This is why I chose to go to a cheaper community college. I know there's a certain stigma attached to people who go to them, but I got a degree much cheaper and I don't think I got a bad or sub-par education. There are options out there, people just need to think before they decide to go to an expensive university. It's a huge decision that many kids think they have to make right away.
I hope they give me a heads-up before bailing out student loans. I've been working hard to manage without, but I'd like to swipe up one before they forgive debt. ;)
I agree except I'd like to add that older workers who are lured to college by the false impression, intentionally created by universities, that they can "start over" are victims of fraud, and their debt should fall on the college, not the taxpayer. Employers expect you to be at a point in your career that would be appropriate for your age if you had graduated at 22.
@eswyatt Why should colleges be any more accountable for individual decisions? I disagree with your rather facile impression of colleges as somehow deceitful. It is a little more complicated than that, and anyway, a university degree does confer an advantage on the graduate, in general.
@whiff1962 You're right about it being "a rather facile impression." But I don't think college does older workers any good. And while recruiting campaigns that say otherwise go beyond mere "puffery," they probably don't t rise to the level of fraud. (And some really hard-core libertarians don't think fraud should be a crime; it wasn't for a large part of our history.) In any event, a Stossel-type expose' on the worthlessness of a college degree should do the trick.
@eswyatt First off, the the state should get out of funding universities and student loans by way of tax payer money. Let the University operate as any other business, which is something that any university PR and marketing can figure out. Next, retool the union presence in many universities, especially state universities in democratic stronghold states, That would save a heck of a lot of money on wages, pensions and gold standard healthcare packages. Good luck exposing this so-called fraud.
@whiff1962 Most of what you said is off to one side from the discussion. I'm not interested in expanding the discussion into other areas, nor am I interested in "out libertarianing" you. I'm not a libertarian evangelist.
This is about personal accountability. I would agree that the university degree has gotten to be quite costly, but when one looks at the wealth distribution of college graduates, I would say that a university degree is a very good investment. The fact that so many older students might have trouble retraining through a university education (of which I am strongly circumspect, where are the stats?) might not fall on the colleges, but on the nature of the free-market of labor?
The point is is that college boards are beholden to the state political machinery, especially so, here, in Illinois, which is strongly pro-union-public sector!
@eswyatt My discussion is quite germane to this discussion of tax payer funded student loan defaults, whereas, your discussion of older students and of "deceitful" university PR is off topic from the content of this video. Yes, university costs could be trimmed, especially public institutions. Let the private universities charge more for the cost of doing business. Its a free-market, or, so it should be. And stop having tax payers footing the bill for low interest, no default loans.
You forget that these loans are forced by the government. Government says banks have to give out these guaranteed loans. These loans aren’t collected on right away but 4-6 years or even longer. When they do start collecting them, they have a higher default rate at a lower APR then average loans. You add inflation and non-equity student loans shouldn’t even exist from a bank’s point of view.
Take responsibility for yourself. Don’t take loans you can’t pay back, stop getting degrees no one wants (architect… really?), stop bitching to others when you are in control of your life and you made the bad decision. Too bad they don’t teach Personal Responsibility 101.
@kuhioffxi Take responsibility for yourself. Don’t give loans that can’t be pay back, stop giving loans to degrees no one wants (architect… really?), stop bitching to others when you are in control of your life and you made the bad decision. Too bad they don’t teach Personal Responsibility 101.
Just wanted to make it right because allowing banks to be protected from bankruptcy forces the government to get involved and takes money from my pocket to have the government protect these banks.
@kuhioffxi I agree that loans should not be forgiven, however i believe these loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy . There is a big difference. The college prices go up for everyone when the loans are not dischargeable. There is no incentive to lower prices when loans are guaranteed to be paid.
Has anyone considered how a bailout might affect the behavior of colleges? My gut feeling is that it would increase the rate of tuition increases and grow the education jobs program which is already out of hand. But I'd have to think about it more.
Okay, normally I'm with ReasonTV, but this is a larger problem than they realize. A lot of colleges out there are far more predatory in their policies, or charge outstanding prices for near-useless degrees. The worst part is this is all part of a huge social construct created by previous generations who believed that college is not just a part of success in life, but the very crux of it. We weren't told we could go to college, we were told we HAD to go to college.
@ChiotVulgaire I would still bank on a university degree rather than just a high school diploma. The crux is that of personal talent and initiative. The university has no place and blame on individual graduates failing to flourish in the job market. That is the larger picture.
@Spudst3r There is also that the interest rate is typically twice that of the current Prime Interest rate, (6.8 to 3.25), that it is one of only two debts that are not wiped clean by bankruptcy (the other is a mortgage), and that a bachelor's degree is no longer a benefit of the wealthy but a minimum requirement for a knowledge based economy. There is a reason that they have higher incomes and lower unemployment, but it's not because they have good incomes and good employment...
Wow I m not american so I dont keep up with your politics and I acualy had some respect for Occupy movement in the sense they are ignorant but they care about something, but there is no way this could be more hypocritical you go out there to protest the banks bail outs and to get bail outs for your selves?
This just show how they lack any kind of moral principles.
@rodrigodet Yeah, the Tea Party/Libertarians are against bailouts across the board for philosophical reasons (whether they be failing banks or other groups). Occupy feels that the government should only bail out the poor
Student loan contracts are written in English, and i'd wager most applicants speak and understand English just fine. They also know what a contract is and what loans are. Your analogy is shit. If students signing things without bothering to read them, perhaps you should focus on educating 18 year olds on finances, or perhaps you should set up a business or website offering advice on student loans.
There is a difference between the ethical and the political, so stop equating them like an idiot. Of course I would mind, but that doesn't mean I'd have any legal recourse.
@Kikarok I don't have any student loans to worry about, since I was careful and paid for college out of pocket, but, most of my friends weren't as lucky, and were swindled into student loans.
It is unreasonable to hold students to a higher standard than we hold Wall st money jugglers to.
No, if Tishman Speyer can walk away from property that is underwater, then, there's no reason that the owner of an underwater house in the Ozarks should not, too.
@AnonymousElektron I do not have a college loan because I did not go to college, since I could not afford to, AND did not qualify for a loan (I earned a living wage).
Forgiving Student loans (or any other loans for that matter) that are secured by TAX PAYER MONEY, means I will have to pay for your friends college degree. NO!!!
@Kikarok finally, the terms of these loans that we find so objectionable were in-fact NOT in the contract, as they were change ex-post-facto by the Bush administration.
So, if the government passed a law, saying that your cellphone company could impound your vehicle, if you're ever late on your bill, and you did not agree to those terms when you signed your contract, then, you'd perhaps be miffed, too.
It's not as if you sit down with a bank agent, and map out your career path for the rest of your life!
Your student loan is given as much care and personalization as a big-mac.
And no, I don't think it's reasonable for a starry-eyed 18 year old to sign away their financial prosperity for the rest of their lives, because, at the time, they thought that a masters in gender-studies was what was right for them.
Buying votes from college students by what?? Yes tax payers you guessed it......another bailout and general motors has not paid back their loan and will always be the bailout company or obama motors from now on. Are we still borrowing money from China to give out bailouts to big companies ? Of course we are.
So hey, Reason.tv, show me where I can sign up for this mythically guaranteed $50K job out the gate from college and I'll be more than happy to keep my mouth shut about student loan debt.
I agree on everything you said but you can't be half in and half out. I would create a real free-market system in the student loan industry and allow students to file bankruptcy on student loans that way banks aren't able to essentially give out risk free loans and imprison students with debt because the government allows them. That would lower tuition cost, lenders will only lend to students who can prove they can pay it back, and there would be less of a burden to tax payers.
@JimmyRose1 how can an 18 year old prove they will pay back a loan without a job or the education for the career of their choice? are the banks suppose to screen applicants for what their majors will be and discriminate against others?
if i'm not on the list of approved majors i don't get a college education?
@evi1energy students will pay back their loans the same way they did before government involvement. It isn't discriminatory if a bank is more willing to lend money to a computer engineer major then to an artist major if the reason is that computer engineers gets paid more, computer engineers are more likely to get paid more that doesn't mean the economy discriminates. It’s the same when a bank is more likely lend money to someone who’s investing into a bar and less likely for a restaurant.
@evi1energy But you're thinking of a student getting approved for a $50,000 loan when in reality banks take it semester by semester and students would get a job and go to school and pay their way through college while taking much less debt when they graduate. When a bank creates a financial plan for your college loans and you follow through each semester you prove yourself to be financially responsible. I know it's hard to imagine you’ll be able to pay your loans with how expensive college is
@evi1energy but college would be much less expensive if government wasn’t involved. Do you think if the government got out of college tuitions would stay the same? If it did then no one would go to college and all the colleges would go bankrupt obviously that wouldn’t happen and tuition you go down to affordable rate. Colleges financial departments would help you find an internship while in college so you can continue attending the college then just burying you in debt.
@JimmyRose1 i can get on board with that. my only critique would be to NOT let students file for bankruptcy on their student loans. kinda the way it is now, keep the interest rates low and if it takes 50 years to pay off your debt, so be it. i would be wary about discriminating against certain degrees, banks already have a lot of power and sway, and it would be the banks, dictating the ebb and flow of the work force in the country.
@evi1energy wrote "my only critique would be to NOT let students file for bankruptcy on their student loans."
I just went through a bankruptcy last year. My student loans were not allowed to be part of the judgement. Don't know if that's true all over, or just in my area.
@rmcdaniel423 i was replying to a guy who claimed to have a solution to lower costs of college tuition, and part of it was to be able to file bankruptcy and wash away student loans. currently tho, you are correct, you can not erase student loan debts thru bankruptcy.
@evi1energy I like how your sympathy changes with the student trying to attend school vs the student trying to pay off their debt. You posted earlier “how can an 18 year old prove they will pay back a loan without a job or the education for the career of their choice?” but you believe their old enough to take out a $60g loan and then be enforce by the government to pay it back with no way out. It’s not okay to deny someone a loan based of their finances but it is okay to indebt someone for life?
@evi1energy My original response to the video was that you can't be half in and half out or be on one side and the other. It's true that the loans are voluntary but on both sides and if you’re not allowed bankruptcy under student loans then why on anything else. If someone makes a legal agreement to pay a debt then refuses to pay it becomes a legal matter and if the lender can prove that they provided money to someone with the capacity to pay it back then it's up to the court to resolve the debt
Straight up, I don't mind paying back PNC the money I borrowed from them. The stack of DL bills I have though, I wonder if it's even worth paying back... I mean, this is clearly a moneymaking scheme between the state and academia, at the cost of the student.
These losers should've thought about that before they went to college. Newsflash. College is fucking useless. If you want a REAL education, join the military like I did.
average per annum salary for a college kid is $50,000??? Fuck me, those kids are earning more than what i'm currently making in my drafting job of 6+ years!
@DarrelfromZeeland What are u talking about? I realize that muslim are migrating in a huge amount, but I am prety sure that sharia WILL NOT REPLACE anything as far as Internet is free... additionally why do bother is USA? why study there if the tuition is so expensive. I am a MD and my highest tuition was less than a $100 per annum. I got my degree from Panama and it is as good as one from USA. Now I am studying in Sweden where being a PhD is a job. Therefore, what is the point of a US paper?
Let's back up for a second. One must realize that there are two types of federal student loans: subsidized and unsubsidized. The unsubsidized loans are similar to ordinary loans in that they accrue interest at an annual rate. In a subsidized student loan, the government pays the interest on the loan for as long as the student is in school. Of course there are some difficult terms. This debt cannot be restructured in the case of bankruptcy.
I didn't go to college because I realized how foolish it was to rack up 60000 in debt on a degree i may or may not use. What do I get from Obama for having the forsight NOT to fall into the college loan trap?
@akgregor yeah, because 25,000 dollars is SOOOOOOOOO much, and if students get bailed out, then were does the cycle end? The goal of the law is EQUAL justice, not SOCIAL justice
Arguing by averages is a type of fallacious reasoning. Shame on Reason TV. A person who has made terrible financial decisions at age 18-30 should not be burdened with them until they are 60. How about including the number of students who have loans valued at over 120 thousand and no longer wish to voluntarily work in the given field? No way out, but to leave the country or live a life of crime.
@ogscott "A person who has made terrible financial decisions at age 18-30 should not be burdened with them until they are 60." He should be burdened with them until he fixes the problem. It's not the government's responsibility to enable bad decision-making.
@PissedFechtmeister Well, America was founded on the notion that people ought to be able to get fresh starts. Indentured servitude was voluntary too. So was the "agreed" punishment of debtors prisons. And marriage used to be permanent. Forcing someone to spend 30 years paying off something they didn't need, haven't used and hasn't helped them, is flatly unjust. The government is "enabling bad decision making" it's also making it worse.
@ogscott You agreed to pay it off. It's unjust for you not to pay it off (you turn your creditors into your slaves) and doubly so make make other people pay it off for you. Indeed, if I'm forced to pay of your debts then I become your slave. I just don't understand how you can justify slavery.
@PissedFechtmeister Don't know why you're making this personal, I don't believe in College and I don't owe any money to anyone. People deserve the option of complete bankruptcy. Paying taxes doesn't make you a slave, it makes you responsible for setting intelligent education policy...you made some really bad loans man.
I would like to know from where the statistics came. Of all my fellow State U Music Education graduates, 1 found a full-time teaching job- at a rural school with a salary well under $50,000 - about half that, in fact. There were 17 of us, which makes the unemployment rate 94%. In the job I DID manage to find (in a bakery), I would make $22,000 (BEFORE taxes) if I worked 8 hours a day, every day of the year. Working the normal 40hrs/wk. 52 weeks, that would equate to $16k before taxes. Explain.
@aretrospection Just because there is a supply doesn't mean there is a demand for it. I mean how naive are you to believe that there would be a huge demand for music teachers, especially in times of economic duress and budget crisis? Art courses are typically the first to get axed when an average school district's budget is operating in the red.
Have the professors make the loans. If the students can't repay the loan then it's because the professors were teaching crap or were delivering crappy teaching. It's kind of like tithing. Crap out, crap back.
IMHO, taking out a student loan on anything that isn't something like engineering, math, csc, etc. is just a stupid investment. People just don't want to do that shit 'cause it's hard. I admire people who are, say, writers who choose to go to college to hone their skills, but actually WRITE, and pay their way. If you take a degree like that, you have to deal with the consequences. Any idiot knows getting an English degree won't get you a job.
@beigelycheenut College counselors at public high schools tell every single student that going to college is the key to getting a good job, and they should take loans to do it. College counselors in College don't tell students, "hey, if you are an English major you should drop out, you'll never be able to pay us back" Why? Because the government says it's all rainbows and gumdrops! Your argument is lame.
So, money is created out of thin air, bankers get a huge cut of it as they disperse it out to everyone, the people who get the loans can't repay them back and become serfs for life to the bankers trying to repay it. It seems like the real problem is the placing US taxpayers on the hook for the loans to begin with. Someone that had to worry about repayment of a loan probably wouldn't give $100,000 to someone a loan to study Anthropology in today's market.
same thing they did with the housing market. Give anyone with a pulse a loan without checking academic ability or degree viability. Why would colleges lower their price when they know every kid walks in with a fistful of cash. No different than giving anyone with a pulse the ability to buy an expensive house. We all know how well govt backed home loans worked out.
@ForTehNguyen Colleges try to keep costs down as much as possible. They are non-profit institutions, so the administrators win nothing from raising tuition.
@ForTehNguyen (1/2) You don't need student loans to go to college. A large grop of us paid for college by working our asses off. I earnen my Bachelor degree with a whopping total of $2,200 in PRIVATE loans not Federal guananteed. When you go for that first job after graduating, paid your way through college really does inpress the HR folks and the hiring decision maker. I have seen sub-3.0 GPAs beat out 4.0s for this reason.
@ForTehNguyen (2/2) Many student loan borrowers that get an excess payment check from the college do not set that money aside for future school needs, as intended. They get money frunk and become spend thrifts. Also, with many career fields an Associates is the best path. Starting pay say for an IT tech may be in the upper 30s to low 40s but you are not spending another 40K to 60K. In those 2 years you can be at the Bachelor starting salary level with 2 years applied exp.
I can tell that you really do not know anything about this situation.
1/4 of my income goes to student loans while I work minimum wage.
Meanwhile while people like me cannot afford things like having children, people like you broadcast that essentially we deserve to be in this situation even though we were indoctrinated since birth to believe we must go to college.
My story is of course not unique and more people just like me are being made every year.
@flammamancer he may seem heartless, but it's the reality. Freshman student myself, and waiting to get hit with $72,000 for a bachelors/masters in math. Just saying "but we're all in debt!" does not justify bailing out. Through time this thing can get solved only for future generations when students aren't guaranteed loans and colleges are then forced to cut prices to a point of people paying up front.
Best of luck. And hope these debts can get liquidized x_x;
@flammamancer college is an investment. period. always has been. always will be. you chose to take out student loans and finance your college experience. i chose to work full time, on a shift with abnormal hours (fri-sun 4am to 4pm). i made sacrifices to ensure i wouldn't have to pay back student loans. you did not. bailing you out is horrifically unfair to me. further, do not blame your situation on "indoctrination" blame it on poor planning and cost/benefit analysis.
@JAROSLAVAGINA If College is an investment it is one based on a 16th Century model of financial instruments. Like all the way back to before the limited liability corporation was invented. AKA the dark ages. They should call it an Unlimited Liability Investment. But I'm glad you found a model that worked for you. The people MAKING the loan are investors too....duh, they should also lose money on a stupid investment.
@flammamancer How is it my responsibility as a taxpayer to pay for your bad financial decisions? Why you you think it's morally acceptable to steal my money? Convenience?
Nobody paid off my student loans. My parents never gave me a dime. It is astonishing that these people seem to think life is easy and that someone else should pay their debts.
@Noodleydoo Life should be easy and would be easy with out the banker, gangsters and their usury that is used to enslave people and their governments world wide.
@pb765 Oh for god's sake. When you sign a loan agreement you are entering into a CONTRACT. You want an education, they have the money, they agree to lend it to you for a small profit called interest. I am 48 years old, have less than 2 grand in debt, own a house and am doing great. I am not "enslaved." If you want to complain, complain about how both pol parties agreed that forcing banks to give home loans to unqualified borrowers was a fantastic idea. Here we are!
@Noodleydoo The contracts are criminal. They are not legal in countries that believe in God. People have been brainwashed in to believing the criminals are right.
Usury is forbidden. People using usury to enslave Gods people are criminals and should be punished. Thirty years to pay a banker for a house is criminal and a form of slavery and slavery is not legal. A decade of usury to go to school is criminal and the people that are doing this to the youth of this country are criminals.
@pb765 Slaves are not offered choices. You CHOOSE to sign a contract to get other peoples' money. That is called free choice. OR you can wait until you save enough money to pay with cash. Either way it is your choice. My parents died three years ago and I got something like 30k from the sale of their home. I put that money in the bank. I fail to see the problem here. We are so damned spoiled in this country that nobody appreciates how good we have it.
@Noodleydoo Also all followers of Jesus Christ and the multitude (commonwealth) of nations that make up Israel have a contract with God. That contract dates way before the contract the devil tricked people into.
The u.s & Canada are of this multitude of nations that make up True Israel. Manasseh claimed this land in ancient times and Dan came and reclaimed it and was followed by people of every Tribe of the House of Israel and The House of Judah.
You need to read and study the Bible and pray for wisdom. Jesus obeyed God to the letter of Gods Law. Every 7 years is the year of release and every 50 years is Jubilee where family lands should be returned and great wealth returned to the people. You just call God satan.
@cooljj82 , Funny they bailed out the banks. Don't see why they can't cut the hard working students a break. My dollars would go right into the economy; instead they go to Sallie Mae's pocket.
If the tables were turned you'd be in the same boat kid.
Yeah and what about the thousands of us who have over 100,000 in student loan debt because schools, lenders, and the government mislead us. This guy is a chump and was probably a rich kid who had everything paid for him by wealthy parents.
And sorry buddy, the student loan companies years ago didn't "clearly state how much the payments would be after school." Part of the problem is the insane interest and compounding interest. My loans would be about 45K LESS without the interest.
@cooljj82 , One day some of my debt will be yours. When some of those crushed under six figure debt they can't get a break on can no longer afford them; who will pick up the economic slack?
Keep in mind that over a trillion dollars that might go into the economy will go right into the pockets of loan companies. Which means your dollar will have to do more to support the economy since mine won't. Which will further damage the economy, costing you more for goods and services.
@RFTB The money going to loan companies will go right back into the economy in the form of new loans to productive people who can afford them. They will use them to produce more goods and services.
@RFTB The Bible states all loans are to be forgiven every seventh year. The people are so brain dead and brainwashed they think that its normal to be debt slave for 30 years to own a home. Slavery is a crime and the banker gangsters should be arrested for crimes against humanity.
@RFTB Usury is also a crime in the Bible and Koran. It is forbidden to be used against all believes in God. So the bankers should be taken out and whipped up to forty lashes told to stop their evil or they will be whipped again and again till they stop their criminal activity. In the Koran they can be whipped more lashes than the Bible.
These are criminals and should be treated as such.
@cooljj82 Sure there is something called Usury. It theft by banker, gangsters and used to enslave people. Is a crime against humanity. It being use by mass murdering criminals to enslave all nations and people on earth and it is forbidden by God to be used against all believers in Him.
No animosity towards corporations fucking you everyday of your lives and your limp wristed, no real action towards the government ya'll allegedly hate. But such hateful, violent, and disgusting rhetoric from you all towards kids.
I hope that they not only bail them out, but I hope they tax you all into oblivion. And you are all spineless cretins, you'll pay those taxes. Because you can't stand to fight back against the big dogs.Just your own citizenry. How pathetic and disgusting you all are.
1. Yes, once they're 18 they have the responsibilities of an adult. The problem is when you go to college and no job is waiting for you like the world promised. So you wasted your time.
2. Its misleading to use "mean" instead of median because you ignore the salary disparity between those who make a lot going into finance and the norm: the MEDIAN income is only 27k: google: "Many With New College Degree Find the Job Market Humbling"
3. Implies needs of the majority = needs of the minority.
Oh Nick, this is so absolutely odious---like most of your vile, mendacious videos.
Aren't you ashamed of yourself? Shilling for very wealthy people, while they throw you a few table scraps is awfully demeaning. Don't you realize that?
Are you a dad, Mr. Gillespie? Because if I were you, I'd be embarrassed to let my kids know that I did for a living. Pathetic.
This is not about paying bills, this is about how the money is lent–len-ding prac-tic-es. when one becomes a sage he owes nothing to the sages, when he becomes a god he owes nothing to the gods, when he acts with humanity he owes nothing to humans. Wish the same view applied to students: when one applies his knowledge he owes nothing to those who taught him, or to sally mae. educate to educate, not to profit.
The real issue with most schools from college down to elementary education is spotting needs in people. If the schools would start teaching how to spot the needs of people, learn how to invent/engineer the item to fix that need we would have jobs. We import so much now that it is more expensive for us to make it than to import it. I understand that that america doesn’t have some of the raw materials that other countries have, so we buy in bulk the raw materials and manufacture it in america.
It's only to buy your vote! Do you think it would be without strings? You're not a fat cat bank CEO friend of the Fed.
Don't you get it? Since they can print as much money as they want, they can promise anyone anything. They'll make it look attractive but, with reduce job availability and the created inflation, you will pay for it in the end and then some.
Aren't ALL LOANS voluntary? To boot, every bad investment that so-called Wall-Streeters made was voluntary. Still, they were bailed out. I don't think a bail-out is EVER a good solution, even if temporary. But, the TARP bailout was an invitation for any and all of the ridiculousness that has followed. And it is deserved. It is TOTALLY reasonable to ask "Why not bail out students if we already bailed out Wall Street?"
If Obama wants to decrease the total amount of Student loan debt in America, then he should consider ordering the Department of Education, or whatever agency manages the Federal government's lending of money to students, to forgive all debts owed by students to the Federal government. Leave private lenders alone. It isn't a bail out, strictly speaking, though it would have the negative consequences of a bail out: it would reinforce the fallacy that the government can fix problems.
Speaking as someone who owes about 60,000 in student loans, I fully agree with this video. I'd like my kids to have a chance to go to college if they want, but I sure as hell can't pay for it up front. Student loans are an important tool to provide access to education. Forgiveness sounds good, but the long term consequences would be disastrous.
If education were free, as some advocate, I never would have left school.
Let's not forget that if college were free, then the sheer financial liability would no longer dissuade those not serious about furthering their educations, thus in turn would result in more degrees issued, more competition for those positions requiring a degree and then subsequent collapse in salaries for the professional classes.
I guarantee that most, not all, college graduates who are currently unemployed had obtained worthless degrees, such as art, history, philosophy, etc.
I agree with everything you said in this video. But, Bureaucrats can't rob banks one day, then make a law the next day making it illegal.... and still keep the money. It WAS a bad idea for the banks, but guess what? THEY DID IT ANYWAY... Two wrongs don't make it right, but it does make it even.
This video is also a good refutation to those who cry "predator lending" as if people were forced to get a ARM with a teaser rate loan from a bank or forced at gunpoint to utilize a payday lender.
Why am I being forced to pay these kids debt? No one paid for my college. This is just ignorant. Why does government keep rewarding non productive and penalizing the productive who work hard everyday.
@triton186alum I would have no problem with this stipulation, sir. My loans are at 8.5% interest, while new students get far better rates. My loans go back to the early 1990s, about 20 years ago. I have medical issues that render me disabled, but not permanently totally disabled. Every other type of debt is dischargable, including gambling debts. Why punish poor students? I would never have been targeted by this predatory lending if my parents (mother) wasn't poor. I owe 3x what I borrowed.
i'm a student loan borrower and I actually agree with this......stop your whining and just pay back the money. work like hell to do it.....we're still young and a little work won't hurt us. If yu use the debt snowball method you can possibly pay it all back in less time. Gotta sacrifice though. Might have to live off rice and beans for awhile but it's not IMPOSSIBLE to pay back the money. Let's live up to our responsibility graduates....we're adults now.
KingB2K8 4 hours ago
I like how he said that most students graduate owing just 25 thousand and they have 10 years before they can pay it off.. that is a bunch a bull shit. my kids are paying 40-70 percent more than what I did. this is nothing more than a bunch of lies.
angelarichards1 2 days ago
why would you take on student debt and then complain about your student debt?
you obviously wasted that money since you came out of school as retarded fucks.
EnslaveTheEmos 2 days ago
higher education is a privilege -- not a right, Constitution-lovers
miketv 3 days ago
reason 1 is very misleading...they have to go to college...they have to get a job...you need college to get a job...don't want to push it too far, but it's kinda about survival...25K?? lightweights...many are well over 50K...finally, there's no economic reason tuition is so high...it's deliberately pushed that high but undermining state budgets w/ tax cuts and designed with banks (who reap the profits of many student loans) interests in mind
LawnChairMedia 4 days ago
"finally, there's no economic reason tuition is so high."
Sure there is, in fact, it's one of the most basic economic principles. it's called inflation.
When the Gov't allowed for the Stafford loans to be given out despite parental income they flooded the tuition market with money and the prices went up. With more people bidding for the same scarce (technically) resource, this is a completely natural market phenomenon.
People said this but the Gov't didn't care because it looks good on paper.
yuothineyesasian 2 days ago
And now we the students are stuck with the real bill. How nice of the well-intention-ed Government was to fuck us over so nicely.
But no, let's blame capitalism...
yuothineyesasian 2 days ago
Ok first off, the government is usually what gives out student loads, it should not, what has happened in out society is education inflation so many people have degrees that they now become mandatory for many jobs that they are not needed, most jobs all someone needs is some on the job training. Easy student loans has made Degrees rather worthless, example in France getting a degree is free, in France a masters or phd is the norm, and become like a certificate of graduation for high school.
wowzinger 5 days ago
I don't understand how you can refuse to pay back your loan.
topperheartramada 1 week ago
@topperheartramada If it is a government/taxpayer subsidized loan, you MUST pay, it even survives bankruptcy, based on the current law. However, if you become a teacher in a poorly performing area, your debt becomes slowly forgiven.
NoProbaloAmigo 5 days ago
Are these fucking tools aware bailout money is taxpayer money, meaning bailing out their dumb asses generates a _net loss_ as more and more people become poor? Just because YOU fucked up doesn't mean you get to drag ME into YOUR personal hell.
fountainherz 1 week ago
THEY ARE NOT VOLUNTARY, YOU DONT HAVE A CHOICE IN THE 21ST CENTURY. LET THE BANKERS WHO TANKED THE ECONOMY PAY FOR THEM. ALSO THAT AVERAGE OF 25K IS BULL. I HAVE 97K COUNTING ACCUMULATED INTEREST SINCE GRADUATING.
technopoptart 1 week ago
I do think education should be free, But student loan borrowers shouldn't be bailed out. Doing so would be encouraging irresponsibility. With the already irresponsible choice of taking a loan you can't afford to pay back.
thecreepyguy 1 week ago
Just the same problem as the housing crisis. Loans made that the originators knew had very little chance of ever being repaid in full, all in the name of short term profits.
ihicrack 1 week ago
obviouslt we shouldn't bail out student debt but if I had to choose between bailing out banks and forgiving student debt I would bail the students out!
tlchop 1 week ago
This is why I chose to go to a cheaper community college. I know there's a certain stigma attached to people who go to them, but I got a degree much cheaper and I don't think I got a bad or sub-par education. There are options out there, people just need to think before they decide to go to an expensive university. It's a huge decision that many kids think they have to make right away.
tedatlas 2 weeks ago
buy gold
benastuart 2 weeks ago
I hope they give me a heads-up before bailing out student loans. I've been working hard to manage without, but I'd like to swipe up one before they forgive debt. ;)
TheCruel 2 weeks ago
87 people were pissed that their lunch wasn't free
takadi 2 weeks ago 2
I agree except I'd like to add that older workers who are lured to college by the false impression, intentionally created by universities, that they can "start over" are victims of fraud, and their debt should fall on the college, not the taxpayer. Employers expect you to be at a point in your career that would be appropriate for your age if you had graduated at 22.
eswyatt 2 weeks ago
@eswyatt Why should colleges be any more accountable for individual decisions? I disagree with your rather facile impression of colleges as somehow deceitful. It is a little more complicated than that, and anyway, a university degree does confer an advantage on the graduate, in general.
whiff1962 2 weeks ago
@whiff1962 You're right about it being "a rather facile impression." But I don't think college does older workers any good. And while recruiting campaigns that say otherwise go beyond mere "puffery," they probably don't t rise to the level of fraud. (And some really hard-core libertarians don't think fraud should be a crime; it wasn't for a large part of our history.) In any event, a Stossel-type expose' on the worthlessness of a college degree should do the trick.
eswyatt 2 weeks ago
@eswyatt First off, the the state should get out of funding universities and student loans by way of tax payer money. Let the University operate as any other business, which is something that any university PR and marketing can figure out. Next, retool the union presence in many universities, especially state universities in democratic stronghold states, That would save a heck of a lot of money on wages, pensions and gold standard healthcare packages. Good luck exposing this so-called fraud.
whiff1962 2 weeks ago
@whiff1962 Most of what you said is off to one side from the discussion. I'm not interested in expanding the discussion into other areas, nor am I interested in "out libertarianing" you. I'm not a libertarian evangelist.
eswyatt 2 weeks ago
This is about personal accountability. I would agree that the university degree has gotten to be quite costly, but when one looks at the wealth distribution of college graduates, I would say that a university degree is a very good investment. The fact that so many older students might have trouble retraining through a university education (of which I am strongly circumspect, where are the stats?) might not fall on the colleges, but on the nature of the free-market of labor?
whiff1962 2 weeks ago
The point is is that college boards are beholden to the state political machinery, especially so, here, in Illinois, which is strongly pro-union-public sector!
whiff1962 2 weeks ago
@eswyatt My discussion is quite germane to this discussion of tax payer funded student loan defaults, whereas, your discussion of older students and of "deceitful" university PR is off topic from the content of this video. Yes, university costs could be trimmed, especially public institutions. Let the private universities charge more for the cost of doing business. Its a free-market, or, so it should be. And stop having tax payers footing the bill for low interest, no default loans.
whiff1962 2 weeks ago
You forget that these loans are forced by the government. Government says banks have to give out these guaranteed loans. These loans aren’t collected on right away but 4-6 years or even longer. When they do start collecting them, they have a higher default rate at a lower APR then average loans. You add inflation and non-equity student loans shouldn’t even exist from a bank’s point of view.
kuhioffxi 3 weeks ago
Take responsibility for yourself. Don’t take loans you can’t pay back, stop getting degrees no one wants (architect… really?), stop bitching to others when you are in control of your life and you made the bad decision. Too bad they don’t teach Personal Responsibility 101.
kuhioffxi 3 weeks ago
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@kuhioffxi Take responsibility for yourself. Don’t give loans that can’t be pay back, stop giving loans to degrees no one wants (architect… really?), stop bitching to others when you are in control of your life and you made the bad decision. Too bad they don’t teach Personal Responsibility 101.
Just wanted to make it right because allowing banks to be protected from bankruptcy forces the government to get involved and takes money from my pocket to have the government protect these banks.
JimmyRose1 3 weeks ago
@kuhioffxi I agree that loans should not be forgiven, however i believe these loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy . There is a big difference. The college prices go up for everyone when the loans are not dischargeable. There is no incentive to lower prices when loans are guaranteed to be paid.
krillin876 3 weeks ago
Has anyone considered how a bailout might affect the behavior of colleges? My gut feeling is that it would increase the rate of tuition increases and grow the education jobs program which is already out of hand. But I'd have to think about it more.
eswyatt 3 weeks ago
Okay, normally I'm with ReasonTV, but this is a larger problem than they realize. A lot of colleges out there are far more predatory in their policies, or charge outstanding prices for near-useless degrees. The worst part is this is all part of a huge social construct created by previous generations who believed that college is not just a part of success in life, but the very crux of it. We weren't told we could go to college, we were told we HAD to go to college.
ChiotVulgaire 3 weeks ago
@ChiotVulgaire I would still bank on a university degree rather than just a high school diploma. The crux is that of personal talent and initiative. The university has no place and blame on individual graduates failing to flourish in the job market. That is the larger picture.
whiff1962 2 weeks ago
There are a few factors unfair about current student loans:
- Previous generations who imposed this on us enjoyed much cheaper rates of education.
- Human capital doesn't just benefit the individual, it benefits companies and society.
- The actual earning power of undergraduate educations has dropped dramatically from what it was.
People making the argument for loan forgiveness are essentially saying their educated should have been more subsidized. And I think they're right.
Spudst3r 3 weeks ago
@Spudst3r There is also that the interest rate is typically twice that of the current Prime Interest rate, (6.8 to 3.25), that it is one of only two debts that are not wiped clean by bankruptcy (the other is a mortgage), and that a bachelor's degree is no longer a benefit of the wealthy but a minimum requirement for a knowledge based economy. There is a reason that they have higher incomes and lower unemployment, but it's not because they have good incomes and good employment...
dafedge2007 3 weeks ago
Stop taking loans for money you don't have that is how you get bank rubt and get in debt never take loans save your money up gah!!!!
fbibarbie 4 weeks ago
Wow I m not american so I dont keep up with your politics and I acualy had some respect for Occupy movement in the sense they are ignorant but they care about something, but there is no way this could be more hypocritical you go out there to protest the banks bail outs and to get bail outs for your selves?
This just show how they lack any kind of moral principles.
rodrigodet 4 weeks ago
@rodrigodet Yeah, the Tea Party/Libertarians are against bailouts across the board for philosophical reasons (whether they be failing banks or other groups). Occupy feels that the government should only bail out the poor
AliceNchainz011 4 weeks ago
what moron would give an 18 year old $250k? The US government. Ron Paul FTW.
gotitans999 1 month ago
Is it reasonable to bind an illiterate migrant worker to a coercive and misleading work-contract, that they can never escape from?
You libertarians are great at defending share-cropping.
I mean, come on, share-cropping is legal, by the letter of the law!!
Those illiterate farm hands should have read their contracts before they signed them!
Personal responsibility.
hurr durrr!!!
And bankruptcy is no excuse!
We should let debt pass onto their children, as well.
Free market wooo!
AnonymousElektron 1 month ago
@AnonymousElektron
Student loan contracts are written in English, and i'd wager most applicants speak and understand English just fine. They also know what a contract is and what loans are. Your analogy is shit. If students signing things without bothering to read them, perhaps you should focus on educating 18 year olds on finances, or perhaps you should set up a business or website offering advice on student loans.
Kikarok 1 month ago
@Kikarok so, you wouldn't mind then, if I make a slick sales pitch to your grandma, and have her sign over her inheritance to me, then, right?
I mean, it's really her fault, she can speak English, after all, right?
AnonymousElektron 1 month ago
@AnonymousElektron
There is a difference between the ethical and the political, so stop equating them like an idiot. Of course I would mind, but that doesn't mean I'd have any legal recourse.
Kikarok 1 month ago
@Kikarok What you say might possibly hold some water, if the state didn't grant special privileges to student loan creditors.
If it was merely a private contract between creditor and student, that would be different.
Tax payers should not be involved.
If a bank wants to lend money to a risky investor, a student, then the bank should have to shoulder the risk.
As long as I can legally declare bankruptcy and walk away from a $20 million dollar construction loan, students should too.
AnonymousElektron 1 month ago
@Kikarok I don't have any student loans to worry about, since I was careful and paid for college out of pocket, but, most of my friends weren't as lucky, and were swindled into student loans.
It is unreasonable to hold students to a higher standard than we hold Wall st money jugglers to.
No, if Tishman Speyer can walk away from property that is underwater, then, there's no reason that the owner of an underwater house in the Ozarks should not, too.
AnonymousElektron 1 month ago
@AnonymousElektron I do not have a college loan because I did not go to college, since I could not afford to, AND did not qualify for a loan (I earned a living wage).
Forgiving Student loans (or any other loans for that matter) that are secured by TAX PAYER MONEY, means I will have to pay for your friends college degree. NO!!!
fireflyvtxr 1 month ago
@Kikarok finally, the terms of these loans that we find so objectionable were in-fact NOT in the contract, as they were change ex-post-facto by the Bush administration.
So, if the government passed a law, saying that your cellphone company could impound your vehicle, if you're ever late on your bill, and you did not agree to those terms when you signed your contract, then, you'd perhaps be miffed, too.
AnonymousElektron 1 month ago
@AnonymousElektron
If that's the case, say so from the beginning instead of cooking up some moronic, false analogy.
Kikarok 1 month ago
It's not as if you sit down with a bank agent, and map out your career path for the rest of your life!
Your student loan is given as much care and personalization as a big-mac.
And no, I don't think it's reasonable for a starry-eyed 18 year old to sign away their financial prosperity for the rest of their lives, because, at the time, they thought that a masters in gender-studies was what was right for them.
The bank certainly didn't mind lending to them.
AnonymousElektron 1 month ago
They took out the loans, they knew what they were getting themselves into. GET A FUCKING JOB AND PAY UP LIBTURDS!!!!
DarrelfromZeeland 1 month ago
Buying votes from college students by what?? Yes tax payers you guessed it......another bailout and general motors has not paid back their loan and will always be the bailout company or obama motors from now on. Are we still borrowing money from China to give out bailouts to big companies ? Of course we are.
IEATZR1 1 month ago
So hey, Reason.tv, show me where I can sign up for this mythically guaranteed $50K job out the gate from college and I'll be more than happy to keep my mouth shut about student loan debt.
ladyhrist 1 month ago
I agree on everything you said but you can't be half in and half out. I would create a real free-market system in the student loan industry and allow students to file bankruptcy on student loans that way banks aren't able to essentially give out risk free loans and imprison students with debt because the government allows them. That would lower tuition cost, lenders will only lend to students who can prove they can pay it back, and there would be less of a burden to tax payers.
JimmyRose1 1 month ago
@JimmyRose1 how can an 18 year old prove they will pay back a loan without a job or the education for the career of their choice? are the banks suppose to screen applicants for what their majors will be and discriminate against others?
if i'm not on the list of approved majors i don't get a college education?
i think there is a better solution out there.
evi1energy 1 month ago
@evi1energy students will pay back their loans the same way they did before government involvement. It isn't discriminatory if a bank is more willing to lend money to a computer engineer major then to an artist major if the reason is that computer engineers gets paid more, computer engineers are more likely to get paid more that doesn't mean the economy discriminates. It’s the same when a bank is more likely lend money to someone who’s investing into a bar and less likely for a restaurant.
JimmyRose1 1 month ago
@evi1energy But you're thinking of a student getting approved for a $50,000 loan when in reality banks take it semester by semester and students would get a job and go to school and pay their way through college while taking much less debt when they graduate. When a bank creates a financial plan for your college loans and you follow through each semester you prove yourself to be financially responsible. I know it's hard to imagine you’ll be able to pay your loans with how expensive college is
JimmyRose1 1 month ago
@evi1energy but college would be much less expensive if government wasn’t involved. Do you think if the government got out of college tuitions would stay the same? If it did then no one would go to college and all the colleges would go bankrupt obviously that wouldn’t happen and tuition you go down to affordable rate. Colleges financial departments would help you find an internship while in college so you can continue attending the college then just burying you in debt.
JimmyRose1 1 month ago
@JimmyRose1 i can get on board with that. my only critique would be to NOT let students file for bankruptcy on their student loans. kinda the way it is now, keep the interest rates low and if it takes 50 years to pay off your debt, so be it. i would be wary about discriminating against certain degrees, banks already have a lot of power and sway, and it would be the banks, dictating the ebb and flow of the work force in the country.
evi1energy 1 month ago
@evi1energy wrote "my only critique would be to NOT let students file for bankruptcy on their student loans."
I just went through a bankruptcy last year. My student loans were not allowed to be part of the judgement. Don't know if that's true all over, or just in my area.
rmcdaniel423 1 month ago
@rmcdaniel423 i was replying to a guy who claimed to have a solution to lower costs of college tuition, and part of it was to be able to file bankruptcy and wash away student loans. currently tho, you are correct, you can not erase student loan debts thru bankruptcy.
evi1energy 1 month ago
@evi1energy I like how your sympathy changes with the student trying to attend school vs the student trying to pay off their debt. You posted earlier “how can an 18 year old prove they will pay back a loan without a job or the education for the career of their choice?” but you believe their old enough to take out a $60g loan and then be enforce by the government to pay it back with no way out. It’s not okay to deny someone a loan based of their finances but it is okay to indebt someone for life?
JimmyRose1 1 month ago
@evi1energy My original response to the video was that you can't be half in and half out or be on one side and the other. It's true that the loans are voluntary but on both sides and if you’re not allowed bankruptcy under student loans then why on anything else. If someone makes a legal agreement to pay a debt then refuses to pay it becomes a legal matter and if the lender can prove that they provided money to someone with the capacity to pay it back then it's up to the court to resolve the debt
JimmyRose1 1 month ago
Straight up, I don't mind paying back PNC the money I borrowed from them. The stack of DL bills I have though, I wonder if it's even worth paying back... I mean, this is clearly a moneymaking scheme between the state and academia, at the cost of the student.
djb5255 1 month ago
These losers should've thought about that before they went to college. Newsflash. College is fucking useless. If you want a REAL education, join the military like I did.
DarrelfromZeeland 1 month ago
The picture of the guy with a child makes me laugh.
if you can't afford it, don't get it.
piecharthosen 1 month ago
average per annum salary for a college kid is $50,000??? Fuck me, those kids are earning more than what i'm currently making in my drafting job of 6+ years!
MorningThief83 1 month ago
this is not true btw. the 50k average earning is a farce. which gives credence to the argument that people shouldn't go to college then demand a job.
piecharthosen 1 month ago
@ReasonTV I am studying in Sweden, because tuition is extremely high in USA. Why are Sweden and I wrong?
hedleypanama 1 month ago
@hedleypanama Sweden is bankrupt. They'll be under islamic sharia law in 20 years.
DarrelfromZeeland 1 month ago
@DarrelfromZeeland What are u talking about? I realize that muslim are migrating in a huge amount, but I am prety sure that sharia WILL NOT REPLACE anything as far as Internet is free... additionally why do bother is USA? why study there if the tuition is so expensive. I am a MD and my highest tuition was less than a $100 per annum. I got my degree from Panama and it is as good as one from USA. Now I am studying in Sweden where being a PhD is a job. Therefore, what is the point of a US paper?
hedleypanama 1 month ago
Let's back up for a second. One must realize that there are two types of federal student loans: subsidized and unsubsidized. The unsubsidized loans are similar to ordinary loans in that they accrue interest at an annual rate. In a subsidized student loan, the government pays the interest on the loan for as long as the student is in school. Of course there are some difficult terms. This debt cannot be restructured in the case of bankruptcy.
sinecurve9999 1 month ago
The government forced banks to give student loans to.... pretty much anybody. And they're surprised when people can't pay back the loans.
mhoyer01 1 month ago 19
We need to close the federal department of education immediately .
halloranedward 1 month ago in playlist misc III 11
I didn't go to college because I realized how foolish it was to rack up 60000 in debt on a degree i may or may not use. What do I get from Obama for having the forsight NOT to fall into the college loan trap?
metalrulez4evr 1 month ago 3
@metalrulez4evr Ummm...you get piece of mind and higher taxes.
ogscott 1 month ago
Bailout Wallstreet, then F^&K the next generation into debt slavery
SHAME ON REASONTV!
akgregor 1 month ago
@akgregor yeah, because 25,000 dollars is SOOOOOOOOO much, and if students get bailed out, then were does the cycle end? The goal of the law is EQUAL justice, not SOCIAL justice
mynameisliberty1 1 month ago 3
@akgregor You seem confused. Reason.tv was against TARP too. Making the same mistake again is not going to fix anything.
PissedFechtmeister 1 month ago
Arguing by averages is a type of fallacious reasoning. Shame on Reason TV. A person who has made terrible financial decisions at age 18-30 should not be burdened with them until they are 60. How about including the number of students who have loans valued at over 120 thousand and no longer wish to voluntarily work in the given field? No way out, but to leave the country or live a life of crime.
ogscott 1 month ago
@ogscott "A person who has made terrible financial decisions at age 18-30 should not be burdened with them until they are 60." He should be burdened with them until he fixes the problem. It's not the government's responsibility to enable bad decision-making.
PissedFechtmeister 1 month ago
@PissedFechtmeister Well, America was founded on the notion that people ought to be able to get fresh starts. Indentured servitude was voluntary too. So was the "agreed" punishment of debtors prisons. And marriage used to be permanent. Forcing someone to spend 30 years paying off something they didn't need, haven't used and hasn't helped them, is flatly unjust. The government is "enabling bad decision making" it's also making it worse.
ogscott 1 month ago
@ogscott You agreed to pay it off. It's unjust for you not to pay it off (you turn your creditors into your slaves) and doubly so make make other people pay it off for you. Indeed, if I'm forced to pay of your debts then I become your slave. I just don't understand how you can justify slavery.
PissedFechtmeister 1 month ago
@PissedFechtmeister Don't know why you're making this personal, I don't believe in College and I don't owe any money to anyone. People deserve the option of complete bankruptcy. Paying taxes doesn't make you a slave, it makes you responsible for setting intelligent education policy...you made some really bad loans man.
ogscott 1 month ago
@ogscott Paying taxes means that I did work that I wasn't paid for. That makes me a slave.
PissedFechtmeister 1 month ago
I would like to know from where the statistics came. Of all my fellow State U Music Education graduates, 1 found a full-time teaching job- at a rural school with a salary well under $50,000 - about half that, in fact. There were 17 of us, which makes the unemployment rate 94%. In the job I DID manage to find (in a bakery), I would make $22,000 (BEFORE taxes) if I worked 8 hours a day, every day of the year. Working the normal 40hrs/wk. 52 weeks, that would equate to $16k before taxes. Explain.
aretrospection 1 month ago
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whatupsonbro 1 month ago
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@aretrospection Just because there is a supply doesn't mean there is a demand for it. I mean how naive are you to believe that there would be a huge demand for music teachers, especially in times of economic duress and budget crisis? Art courses are typically the first to get axed when an average school district's budget is operating in the red.
whatupsonbro 1 month ago
Have the professors make the loans. If the students can't repay the loan then it's because the professors were teaching crap or were delivering crappy teaching. It's kind of like tithing. Crap out, crap back.
earsonsounds 1 month ago
IMHO, taking out a student loan on anything that isn't something like engineering, math, csc, etc. is just a stupid investment. People just don't want to do that shit 'cause it's hard. I admire people who are, say, writers who choose to go to college to hone their skills, but actually WRITE, and pay their way. If you take a degree like that, you have to deal with the consequences. Any idiot knows getting an English degree won't get you a job.
beigelycheenut 1 month ago
@beigelycheenut College counselors at public high schools tell every single student that going to college is the key to getting a good job, and they should take loans to do it. College counselors in College don't tell students, "hey, if you are an English major you should drop out, you'll never be able to pay us back" Why? Because the government says it's all rainbows and gumdrops! Your argument is lame.
ogscott 1 month ago
So, money is created out of thin air, bankers get a huge cut of it as they disperse it out to everyone, the people who get the loans can't repay them back and become serfs for life to the bankers trying to repay it. It seems like the real problem is the placing US taxpayers on the hook for the loans to begin with. Someone that had to worry about repayment of a loan probably wouldn't give $100,000 to someone a loan to study Anthropology in today's market.
cdoftx 1 month ago
its funny that its govt that is causing tuition to be so overpriced that you need govt loans to go to college.
Typical govt breaking your legs, then giving you crutches and saying see without me you wouldnt be able to walk
ForTehNguyen 1 month ago 46
@ForTehNguyen How is government causing tuition to be overpriced?
TheAdarkon 1 month ago
@TheAdarkon
same thing they did with the housing market. Give anyone with a pulse a loan without checking academic ability or degree viability. Why would colleges lower their price when they know every kid walks in with a fistful of cash. No different than giving anyone with a pulse the ability to buy an expensive house. We all know how well govt backed home loans worked out.
ForTehNguyen 1 month ago
@ForTehNguyen Colleges try to keep costs down as much as possible. They are non-profit institutions, so the administrators win nothing from raising tuition.
TheAdarkon 1 month ago
@TheAdarkon Non-profit institutions? Explain to me how the president of Drexell University made over 4 million dollars in salary last year! F.N.D.
fnd111 1 month ago
@fnd111 He's obviously very talented and they pay him that much to retain him as president.
TheAdarkon 1 month ago
@ForTehNguyen (1/2) You don't need student loans to go to college. A large grop of us paid for college by working our asses off. I earnen my Bachelor degree with a whopping total of $2,200 in PRIVATE loans not Federal guananteed. When you go for that first job after graduating, paid your way through college really does inpress the HR folks and the hiring decision maker. I have seen sub-3.0 GPAs beat out 4.0s for this reason.
Robbob9933 1 month ago
@ForTehNguyen (2/2) Many student loan borrowers that get an excess payment check from the college do not set that money aside for future school needs, as intended. They get money frunk and become spend thrifts. Also, with many career fields an Associates is the best path. Starting pay say for an IT tech may be in the upper 30s to low 40s but you are not spending another 40K to 60K. In those 2 years you can be at the Bachelor starting salary level with 2 years applied exp.
Robbob9933 1 month ago
I can tell that you really do not know anything about this situation.
1/4 of my income goes to student loans while I work minimum wage.
Meanwhile while people like me cannot afford things like having children, people like you broadcast that essentially we deserve to be in this situation even though we were indoctrinated since birth to believe we must go to college.
My story is of course not unique and more people just like me are being made every year.
flammamancer 2 months ago
@flammamancer he may seem heartless, but it's the reality. Freshman student myself, and waiting to get hit with $72,000 for a bachelors/masters in math. Just saying "but we're all in debt!" does not justify bailing out. Through time this thing can get solved only for future generations when students aren't guaranteed loans and colleges are then forced to cut prices to a point of people paying up front.
Best of luck. And hope these debts can get liquidized x_x;
kmelfina 2 months ago
@flammamancer college is an investment. period. always has been. always will be. you chose to take out student loans and finance your college experience. i chose to work full time, on a shift with abnormal hours (fri-sun 4am to 4pm). i made sacrifices to ensure i wouldn't have to pay back student loans. you did not. bailing you out is horrifically unfair to me. further, do not blame your situation on "indoctrination" blame it on poor planning and cost/benefit analysis.
JAROSLAVAGINA 1 month ago
@JAROSLAVAGINA If College is an investment it is one based on a 16th Century model of financial instruments. Like all the way back to before the limited liability corporation was invented. AKA the dark ages. They should call it an Unlimited Liability Investment. But I'm glad you found a model that worked for you. The people MAKING the loan are investors too....duh, they should also lose money on a stupid investment.
ogscott 1 month ago
@flammamancer How is it my responsibility as a taxpayer to pay for your bad financial decisions? Why you you think it's morally acceptable to steal my money? Convenience?
PissedFechtmeister 1 month ago
soso kommt jemand aus berlin
MarlenShariefh424 2 months ago
$290 a month? I almost pay that amount on my family cellphone plane alone! Fucking crybabies.
geddoezz 2 months ago
@geddoezz Just 55% Between 16 and 29 Have Jobs...Front page of Drudge report today. I never read link.Eight fiat bucks an hour will not work.
You can pay the devils if there is no work.
pb765 2 months ago
Nobody paid off my student loans. My parents never gave me a dime. It is astonishing that these people seem to think life is easy and that someone else should pay their debts.
Noodleydoo 2 months ago
@Noodleydoo Life should be easy and would be easy with out the banker, gangsters and their usury that is used to enslave people and their governments world wide.
pb765 2 months ago
@pb765 Oh for god's sake. When you sign a loan agreement you are entering into a CONTRACT. You want an education, they have the money, they agree to lend it to you for a small profit called interest. I am 48 years old, have less than 2 grand in debt, own a house and am doing great. I am not "enslaved." If you want to complain, complain about how both pol parties agreed that forcing banks to give home loans to unqualified borrowers was a fantastic idea. Here we are!
Noodleydoo 2 months ago
@Noodleydoo The contracts are criminal. They are not legal in countries that believe in God. People have been brainwashed in to believing the criminals are right.
Usury is forbidden. People using usury to enslave Gods people are criminals and should be punished. Thirty years to pay a banker for a house is criminal and a form of slavery and slavery is not legal. A decade of usury to go to school is criminal and the people that are doing this to the youth of this country are criminals.
pb765 2 months ago
@pb765 I prayed on it and God told me it's okay to loan money to people and charge them interest.
studentofsmith 2 months ago
@studentofsmith Well your listening to lucifer not God as God would not tell you lies. Your God must be satan.
pb765 2 months ago
@pb765 How do you know your God isn't satan?
studentofsmith 2 months ago
@studentofsmith You state your God counters the word of God in His Holy Bible.
So you were chatting with satan.
Lucifer is explained in The Bible as is God. I have studied Bible for many years.
Lucifer's children use usury to enslave Gods people.
pb765 2 months ago
@pb765 The word of God is written in your heart. The bible was written by Lucifer to lend credence to his lies.
studentofsmith 2 months ago
@studentofsmith The Word of God is true and you believe lies. If you think satan's childrens Usury is good you believe evil the (D evil).
God is Good and the Devil is evil.
pb765 2 months ago
@pb765 The Word of God is found in your heart. If you think charging interest is wrong you belive satans bible.
Renounce satans lies and listen to Gods Truth in your heart. I will pray for you.
studentofsmith 2 months ago
@studentofsmith You are insane.
pb765 2 months ago
@pb765 Slaves are not offered choices. You CHOOSE to sign a contract to get other peoples' money. That is called free choice. OR you can wait until you save enough money to pay with cash. Either way it is your choice. My parents died three years ago and I got something like 30k from the sale of their home. I put that money in the bank. I fail to see the problem here. We are so damned spoiled in this country that nobody appreciates how good we have it.
Noodleydoo 2 months ago
@Noodleydoo People can be tricked into slavery and when they find out the contract would be null and viod as they were tricked.
Well it would be much better the World over if we kicked satan's children out of our lives forever.
pb765 2 months ago
@Noodleydoo Also all followers of Jesus Christ and the multitude (commonwealth) of nations that make up Israel have a contract with God. That contract dates way before the contract the devil tricked people into.
The u.s & Canada are of this multitude of nations that make up True Israel. Manasseh claimed this land in ancient times and Dan came and reclaimed it and was followed by people of every Tribe of the House of Israel and The House of Judah.
Lucifer's contracts are trash.
pb765 2 months ago
You need to read and study the Bible and pray for wisdom. Jesus obeyed God to the letter of Gods Law. Every 7 years is the year of release and every 50 years is Jubilee where family lands should be returned and great wealth returned to the people. You just call God satan.
pb765 3 months ago
@pb765
pb765 2 months ago
One of Obama's campaign promises was that he wouldn't legislate through executive orders like Bush. lol oops...
cooljj82 3 months ago
@cooljj82 Like all bloodsuckers (politicians) if he opens his mouth he is more than likely lying.
pb765 3 months ago
BAIL OUT NOBODY!
cooljj82 3 months ago
@cooljj82 , Funny they bailed out the banks. Don't see why they can't cut the hard working students a break. My dollars would go right into the economy; instead they go to Sallie Mae's pocket.
If the tables were turned you'd be in the same boat kid.
RFTB 3 months ago
@RFTB No I wouldn't. I paid cash for school while making minimum wage.
cooljj82 3 months ago
Yeah and what about the thousands of us who have over 100,000 in student loan debt because schools, lenders, and the government mislead us. This guy is a chump and was probably a rich kid who had everything paid for him by wealthy parents.
And sorry buddy, the student loan companies years ago didn't "clearly state how much the payments would be after school." Part of the problem is the insane interest and compounding interest. My loans would be about 45K LESS without the interest.
RFTB 3 months ago
@RFTB It was YOUR job to figure up your payments, it takes about 30 seconds to do it. It is your debt, not mine.
cooljj82 3 months ago
@cooljj82 , One day some of my debt will be yours. When some of those crushed under six figure debt they can't get a break on can no longer afford them; who will pick up the economic slack?
Keep in mind that over a trillion dollars that might go into the economy will go right into the pockets of loan companies. Which means your dollar will have to do more to support the economy since mine won't. Which will further damage the economy, costing you more for goods and services.
RFTB 3 months ago
@RFTB The money going to loan companies will go right back into the economy in the form of new loans to productive people who can afford them. They will use them to produce more goods and services.
cooljj82 3 months ago
@RFTB The Bible states all loans are to be forgiven every seventh year. The people are so brain dead and brainwashed they think that its normal to be debt slave for 30 years to own a home. Slavery is a crime and the banker gangsters should be arrested for crimes against humanity.
pb765 3 months ago
@RFTB Usury is also a crime in the Bible and Koran. It is forbidden to be used against all believes in God. So the bankers should be taken out and whipped up to forty lashes told to stop their evil or they will be whipped again and again till they stop their criminal activity. In the Koran they can be whipped more lashes than the Bible.
These are criminals and should be treated as such.
pb765 3 months ago
Stop satan's Usury. End the slavery of Usury Now!!
pb765 3 months ago in playlist Occupy Wall Street Vids
@pb765 There is no such thing as usury. You are responsible to what you agree to. If you agree to 1000% interest, thats on your head.
cooljj82 3 months ago
@cooljj82 Sure there is something called Usury. It theft by banker, gangsters and used to enslave people. Is a crime against humanity. It being use by mass murdering criminals to enslave all nations and people on earth and it is forbidden by God to be used against all believers in Him.
pb765 3 months ago
No animosity towards corporations fucking you everyday of your lives and your limp wristed, no real action towards the government ya'll allegedly hate. But such hateful, violent, and disgusting rhetoric from you all towards kids.
I hope that they not only bail them out, but I hope they tax you all into oblivion. And you are all spineless cretins, you'll pay those taxes. Because you can't stand to fight back against the big dogs.Just your own citizenry. How pathetic and disgusting you all are.
moediggity28 3 months ago
@moediggity28 You are hateful.
cooljj82 3 months ago
If he has money to stuff his face with pizza, he can pay his damn bills. Check his pockets for an iPhone too.Those plans are pricey.
Tylernt1978 3 months ago
1. Yes, once they're 18 they have the responsibilities of an adult. The problem is when you go to college and no job is waiting for you like the world promised. So you wasted your time.
2. Its misleading to use "mean" instead of median because you ignore the salary disparity between those who make a lot going into finance and the norm: the MEDIAN income is only 27k: google: "Many With New College Degree Find the Job Market Humbling"
3. Implies needs of the majority = needs of the minority.
aldreato 3 months ago
If Groucho says it, I'm FOR IT!!
GetMeThere1 3 months ago
Oh Nick, this is so absolutely odious---like most of your vile, mendacious videos.
Aren't you ashamed of yourself? Shilling for very wealthy people, while they throw you a few table scraps is awfully demeaning. Don't you realize that?
Are you a dad, Mr. Gillespie? Because if I were you, I'd be embarrassed to let my kids know that I did for a living. Pathetic.
mrktjobs 3 months ago
@mrktjobs Can I have your money>?
evandonghue2 3 months ago
This is not about paying bills, this is about how the money is lent–len-ding prac-tic-es. when one becomes a sage he owes nothing to the sages, when he becomes a god he owes nothing to the gods, when he acts with humanity he owes nothing to humans. Wish the same view applied to students: when one applies his knowledge he owes nothing to those who taught him, or to sally mae. educate to educate, not to profit.
jmarchil 3 months ago
@jmarchil Usury is slavery. Slaver is forbidden. God for bids Usury used against all that believe in Him. Usury is a crime against humanity!!
pb765 3 months ago in playlist Occupy Wall Street Vids
The real issue with most schools from college down to elementary education is spotting needs in people. If the schools would start teaching how to spot the needs of people, learn how to invent/engineer the item to fix that need we would have jobs. We import so much now that it is more expensive for us to make it than to import it. I understand that that america doesn’t have some of the raw materials that other countries have, so we buy in bulk the raw materials and manufacture it in america.
williamkimbler 3 months ago
So basically, renegotiating debts is a luxury reserved for the rich, and paying back every last cent becomes a sacred duty when you're poor.
Mertazord 3 months ago
It's only to buy your vote! Do you think it would be without strings? You're not a fat cat bank CEO friend of the Fed.
Don't you get it? Since they can print as much money as they want, they can promise anyone anything. They'll make it look attractive but, with reduce job availability and the created inflation, you will pay for it in the end and then some.
wLibertyNJustice4all 3 months ago
Aren't ALL LOANS voluntary? To boot, every bad investment that so-called Wall-Streeters made was voluntary. Still, they were bailed out. I don't think a bail-out is EVER a good solution, even if temporary. But, the TARP bailout was an invitation for any and all of the ridiculousness that has followed. And it is deserved. It is TOTALLY reasonable to ask "Why not bail out students if we already bailed out Wall Street?"
monicamjohnson 3 months ago
If Obama wants to decrease the total amount of Student loan debt in America, then he should consider ordering the Department of Education, or whatever agency manages the Federal government's lending of money to students, to forgive all debts owed by students to the Federal government. Leave private lenders alone. It isn't a bail out, strictly speaking, though it would have the negative consequences of a bail out: it would reinforce the fallacy that the government can fix problems.
orthzar 3 months ago
whats the old video in between reasons?
Cinnamonbuns13 3 months ago
Reason is correct. Great video. But it won't matter. The bailout will happen.
Brambledemon 3 months ago
Speaking as someone who owes about 60,000 in student loans, I fully agree with this video. I'd like my kids to have a chance to go to college if they want, but I sure as hell can't pay for it up front. Student loans are an important tool to provide access to education. Forgiveness sounds good, but the long term consequences would be disastrous.
If education were free, as some advocate, I never would have left school.
greggem 3 months ago
@greggem
Let's not forget that if college were free, then the sheer financial liability would no longer dissuade those not serious about furthering their educations, thus in turn would result in more degrees issued, more competition for those positions requiring a degree and then subsequent collapse in salaries for the professional classes.
I guarantee that most, not all, college graduates who are currently unemployed had obtained worthless degrees, such as art, history, philosophy, etc.
fyrewolffe 3 months ago
I agree with everything you said in this video. But, Bureaucrats can't rob banks one day, then make a law the next day making it illegal.... and still keep the money. It WAS a bad idea for the banks, but guess what? THEY DID IT ANYWAY... Two wrongs don't make it right, but it does make it even.
Thagemini2 3 months ago
This video is also a good refutation to those who cry "predator lending" as if people were forced to get a ARM with a teaser rate loan from a bank or forced at gunpoint to utilize a payday lender.
UTubekookdetector 3 months ago
One can never have enough Monarchistic executive orders.
UTubekookdetector 3 months ago
Why am I being forced to pay these kids debt? No one paid for my college. This is just ignorant. Why does government keep rewarding non productive and penalizing the productive who work hard everyday.
quizerry 3 months ago
@triton186alum I would have no problem with this stipulation, sir. My loans are at 8.5% interest, while new students get far better rates. My loans go back to the early 1990s, about 20 years ago. I have medical issues that render me disabled, but not permanently totally disabled. Every other type of debt is dischargable, including gambling debts. Why punish poor students? I would never have been targeted by this predatory lending if my parents (mother) wasn't poor. I owe 3x what I borrowed.
EnnoiaBlog 3 months ago
I think your stats are wrong on the unemployed college students. It seems way to low
robm425 3 months ago in playlist More videos from ReasonTV
@robm425 you get the larger point ye