Dogfights: Gun kills Of Vietnam Part 1

[leonardoH05]

Those men were not heros and will never be remembered......

They fought for useless purposes

Rot in hell

[max258147]

i feel sry for the guy at 0:07

[korcaCRISTCRAFT9]

They should make some of pappy boyington top bad ass of ww2

[FallFanCan]

I wish they would do a show about Douglas Bader. A lot of great dogfight stories from the battle of Britain. But I guess most Americans dont care.

[ovemunk]

There is one thing you are completely overlooking. The Phantom is NOT a dogfighter. Even if it had a cannon it would have had problems. I remember a demonstration i saw on TV once. A F16 adn a Phantom was lined op on the runway. They were given the "go" and took off. The F16 got airborne, turned round and got behind the Phantom before the Phantom had even retracted its landing gear. The scene in "Iron Eagle II" where an Phantom outmaneuvers an F16 is pure bollocks.

[jonastti]

why isnt there a Dogfight program about Hans Rudel(The best in the air)?

[cpmagicdude]

The sky raider looks like the p 51 doesn't it?

[PhormerPhantomPhixer]

If they had a gun installed in the earlier F-4 the air to air kill number would have been higher. The Air Force didn't get an internal gun in the Phantoms until the "E" model and the Navy and Marine Corps never did. Great airplane, I worked on the "J", "S" and "RF" models back in the 80's in the Marines. Phantoms Phorever Baby

[WALTERBROADDUS]

@PhormerPhantomPhixer Many a F-8 driver would say they had the better fighter.

[RFKFANTS67]

Jeee I wonder where some of the Phantom design came from???? The engine air intakes are those off our "Avro arrow" Alot of our design engineers ended up working for U.S. aircraft companies, after the project was cancelled..

[CaponeAl36]

@RFKFANTS67 -- The Avro Arrow program was canceled in 1959. The F-4 Phantom II first flew in 1958. Are you saying that British engineers were secretly working for the US (McDonnell) before the Arrow was canceled? Wow!

I humbly suggest that you're full of baloney, and the Phantom design did NOT come from "design engineers ending up working for US aircraft companies, after the Arrow was canceled".

(BTW, those air intakes were on the 1951 F3H Demon [and the A-4], among others.)

[WALTERBROADDUS]

@CaponeAl36 The Avro Company was from Canada

[CaponeAl36]

@WALTERBROADDUS -- Yes, it was. I don't know why I wrote "Britsh"...shocked myself when I see that I wrote that. Thanks.

[WALTERBROADDUS]

@Ecthaelyon Your correct. In discussing the Arrow, I should have used the AVRO Canada designation. I thought I was clear, but I guess not completly.

[FallFanCan]

@RFKFANTS67 The Arrow had nothing to do with the Phantom. It was directly developed from the F3H and F4D

[OrthodoxDarwinist]

FAIL within gthe firsst 3 seconds.

[336kgf]

@TourmalineSurfer Blame the politicians who had no idea of how to unleash firepower. Once they did and let the B-52s bomb at will, Hanoi got the shit bombed out of them.

[Romus011]

Still use WW II Planes in 1965 ? Why ?

[lolochut]

funy !!! đánh không lại làm trò kìa =))

[fsxflyer253]

Are we seriously arguing over the numbers of aircraft lost to either side? If you don't like it, don't watch it. There may be parts of the entire story not covered but this is about a very few particular engagements. I am so sick of coming to watch these videos for fun and then seeing some stupid argument about some topic that is really unimportant. BTW, at those who bash Americans, if we made similar claims about your countries militaries, you would be just as defensive.

[1bearcatf8f]

Well the A-1 does have some skills for dogfighting,It can take alot of hits.And it can turn sharper.

[VadimDee]

USAF loose 2251 aircraft, but this movie shows Vietnamese pilots like meat and noobs. Propaganda.

[DoorGunnerNam67]

@VadimDee Gee, this was made in the US for a US audience ya think it wouldn't show some bias? That said its still a damn good video.

[dean0waterz]

@VadimDee well there's always two sides to history and always one side that wins, or has the resources to make their version of what happened the most accepted - maybe make it into a flashy show with cool computer graphics. you can pick up that version real easy.

but if you want to know both sides, and what else was going on besides the flashy dogfights - you want the truth? then you have to go digging for it.

now that could be propaganda; or it might be just the way of the world since forever.

[tolainhandan]

@VadimDee Yes, propaganda. American "won" every battles but the truth: they lost the war.

[BayouCityHtown]

@tolainhandan Just how did America lose the war? We unleashed B-52's and bombed North Vietnam right back to the peace talks. When South Vietnam fell America was no longer active in the war. South Vietnam lost, period.

[gaguy1967]

@VadimDee 95% of those loses were to ground fire, not air combat

[theproudicelander]

4 people are commies

[graphicvideos1986]

its very ironic how the soviet union turned the Rice farmers to human shields by harnessing them to fly supersonic Jets ;(

[AccordGTR]

@graphicvideos1986 those rice farmers became national heroes who were defending their country against imperialist forces who were invading their country. North Vietnam produced more aces than the US and had the top aces of the war. With just a few operational squadrons of obsolete Soviet and Chinese fighters against thousands of American planes, they shot down over 70+ American planes while losing about 131. Show some respect to your former enemy cuz the US pilots sure did!

[ANimouz]

I like it how the tell all the things USAF did on vietnam. What they forget is that the USAF lost 2,251 aircraft in that war. They had a far worse kill ratio than the Vietnamese airforce. Nice propaganda once again.

[hectiky]

@ANimouz This is a US show targeting a US audience; that's why it focuses on the the US. Though there's a few episodes showing other nations exploits, most fans (US or otherwise) agree there should be more. Also, most of the aircraft in Vietnam were shot down from ground fire, which wouldn't make much sense to focus on in a show called "Dogfights".

[LTJFan01]

@ANimouz First of all this video is about Navy aircraft not USAF. Secondly your number is total aircraft lost. Only 1,737 were lost to hostile action & 514 were lost to operational causes. Unless you have proof the Vietnamese were sneaking onto the base causing all the operational issues you can't count them. Third Vietnam had far fewer aircraft so of course more American aircraft were shot down. Go to college and take a statisctics class. It might keep you from looking foolish.

[ANimouz]

@LTJFan01 You retard. I'm almost a graduate from a college of geomatics and surveying. I know that statistics are false 90% of the time.. I never mentioned statistics in my post. The FACT is that USAF got it's ass kicked in vietnam so hard that it's laughing. And let's not count how many times the pilots lied about getting shot down even though enemy fighters killed them. The only thing USA has is stupid false "Documentaries" like this that only show 1 side of the coin. Fuckin stupid american.

[dobravery]

@ANimouz A lot of the kills came against the Mig-17's. Some studies suggest that the Mig-21 had a favorable kill ratio versus the F-4's. Unlike the Mig-17, the Mig-21 could match the F-4's speed and outperformed the F-4 at high altitudes.

One of the provisions of the Paris Accords was that Vietnam would not reveal how many US aircraft it had shot down. Interesting that the US would make a concerted effort to keep that a secret.

[andytothesky]

@LTJFan01 I will point out that while you are right, the Vietnamese MiGs killed a very small amount of aircraft, it was mainly SAMs and AAA, the Vietnamese had more anti aircraft weapons along the one air corridor the Americans were allowed to use during rolling thunder than Nazi Germany had throughout Europe in WWII, when it came to linebacker 1 and 2 the loss ratio dropped sharply, mainly to better training

[AccordGTR]

@ANimouz No not true. Most US losses were due to ground fire, not air-to-air. Kill ratio in air-to-air for US was around 4-1 for USAF and 13-1 for US Navy. But I do agree with you this is mostly propaganda showing American success and glamorizing the war. People forget the US was the bully, an imperialist force fighting a nationalist govt who was trying to rid Vietnam of foreign armies after 100 years with the intention of uniting Vietnam. I'm not saying the NVA were saints either

[pedal2th3metal]

two MiG pilots dislike this video.

[haydencantact]

Those monoplanes look like something their fathers flew.

[centurion180ad]

When did the A-1s dump their air-to-ground stores?

[plasterdbastard]

Thanks for the upload, but you shouldn't call this "your" production. It is not your production, and giving yourself the credit and not the creator is the source of numerous videos being removed from YouTube, et al.

[om996jo]

any words on Dogfights: bloodiest day ?

the uploaded episode is in Czech or probably German !

another thing I thought that USAF F-4C/D/E had an internal gun ?

[worldtravel101]

@MrSpaceAcer just enjoy the video for what it is. no need to start your own personal war about it. dont be such a troll lol

[drybone12]

@MrSpaceAcer SO DON'T EFFING WATCH IF YOU DON'T LIKE PEOPLE PUTTTING ON SHOWS THAT AREN'T AIRED THAT MUCH. Stop trolling and appreciate that he even thought of posting this.

[SuperOMGPPL]

the america aircraft is this good

why they lost the war

[seanboud]

@SuperOMGPPL It's because you touch yourself at night.

[lusitanium1]

what kind of software and hardware you need to make such a great show like this ?

[avatar2350]

whats the name of the song you used in your new presentation???

please tell me

[avatar2350]

i love your new presentation.

its so awesome

[prototype245]

I`ve been watching dogfights alot and love it!

[CMDRFandragon]

Those guys couldnt have gotten the first gun kill of Vietnam....they were goin in to save a Fighter pilot...the VC only had guns on their planes right? I know the Mig21 has Atol missiles but still...

[FalconKPD]

@CMDRFandragon First US gun kill, I think

[Highice007]

@CMDRFandragon could have been taken out by a SAM or AAA.

[kdraper2007]

@Bekhang95 That is the Marine corps. memorial. it is a scupture made from the famous Photo of Marines raising the flag on Mt. Suribatchi on the island of IWO JIMA during world war II.

[kdraper2007]

@RickDev15 it's suppost to be about the men & machines. it's the viewers with a lack of self esteem that make it political.

[THLEGO]

this show needs a couple of wilhelm screams.

[TheShootingManyak09]

wasting gasolines

[TheShootingManyak09]

@MrSpaceAcer you sir, are just jealous of historystartsnow's intro. historystartsnow, your intro's great! showing how brave american soldiers are.

[ashesh0326]

A historystartsnow production? Did you produce this show or did the History Channel produce it?

[bigperson121]

What about Lt. Cmdr. Leo Cook, Lt. Pete Russell, Jr. Lt. Tom Patton, and Jr. Lt. Jim Wiley? They did the exact same thing. A1 Skyraiders. I was convinced that my uncle (pete) was in this video, and was very surprised to see that it wasn't. How many times did this happen?

[s4y3nme]

So could you pz post the video of " Dogfight - Desert aces " in HD ?? So we can download it ,

[StalkerF16]

I love this series. I have the complete DVD set.

[theDeitz]

Why didn't (don't) our jets have tail guns/weapons???? Something like the Dillon M134 or a MK 12 ...etc...

[Historystartsnow]

@theDeitz weight issue

[lancelot1953]

It is rare to have a chance to fire at the enemy fighter directly from behind unless you catch him by surprise. If using guns, you have to lead; the gunsight makes the calculations for you. You will more likely have a deflection shot if you have any chance at all. Since both aircrafts are moving "all over the place", a tail gun system would be hard to maintain on target unless you fly straight for a few seconds which may be enough for your opponent to hit you. Add the weight of the system also.

[magedogtag]

@theDeitz why don't you know more about fighter aircraft? the question you just asked is easily answered with a little reading. but i'll boil it down. one man, some guns, some speed is better than two men more guns and slow. its a physics thing but easy to figure out.

[theDeitz]

magedogtag The Russia are thinking out of the box testing a rear-firing missiles. Starting in 1995 testing missiles on their Su27s using modified missiles mounted on rotating pylons to fire in either direction. The mounts may be fixed rear facing or rotating. After a 'little reading' per the info on the web i was informed that the rear-firing weapon on the Sukhoi PAK FA T-50 is being tested, some information is classified. Can we believe all we read, hear, Trust But Verify

[magedogtag]

@theDeitz the russians are definitely thinking out of the box. there is no good reason to put a rotating pylon on a plane since it adds more weight and automatically assumes the pilot will be defensive half of the time. throw in the ridiculous amount of drag when the missile is rotated and i can't see that as a good idea. as far as fixed rear firing pylons, that just assumes that the pilot will be defensive often enough. i can't believe the russians train their pilots that poorly.

[drybone12]

@theDeitz Try to shoot down an aircraft moving faster than you can turn your head when your at 50 feet from it. AND try doing it at altitudes wear you can't even breathe.

[Treblaine]

@theDeitz Weight issue as already mentioned but I think Russia has developed a "rear-firing" missile, google that. Missile is not as hard to mount to aim+fire backwards as a gun.

Also some small aircraft did have rear gunners like the legendary il-2 Sturmovik, it was a ground attack aircraft with a 12.7mm rear gunner that apparently contributed greatly to their reputation as hard to shoot down.

[terryjohn]

@Treblaine Firefox-

[PrinceMustDie666]

@theDeitz Good question! It would make perfect sense. Have a couple missiles pointing backwards to engage pursuing enemy.

Maybe it is due to all the heat and thrust coming out of the tailpipe. Even if they were mounted on the wings and not the fuselage, i suspect that the engineers may have found out that tailpipe turbulence would throw any missile out of flight. If that isn't the issue, then maybe they actually DO have these things but they are secret. And that is fine.

[theDeitz]

@PrinceMustDie666 It looks like we are on the same page. I feel in this day and time nothing is impossible, time will tell.

[MultiMaxy95]

@theDeitz The only jet that has tail guns is currently the B-52 Stratofortress, only jet bombers have tail guns

[XxSniperXXairsoftxX]

@theDeitz weight and it would chnge the center of balance and need more troops but if it was computerized the pilot would have to take his eyes from the controls and situation (in fighters)

[theDeitz]

@XxSniperXXairsoftxX I understand what you guys are saying. I feel with the computer technologically and materials we have today anything is possible. Look how far we have come. If you were to talk to someone in 1930 about stealth aircraft, space stations, putting a man on the moon etc. they too would have said 'it can't be done'. The future tail weapon may be a laser. ... Thinks out of the box ;-)

[lark1955]

This is not the first gun kill of the Vietnam War. Mig 17s had shot down F-105s before this fight took place. Its kind of biased history - that is inaccurate.

[Eboreg2]

@lark1955 I think they actually meant first gun kill on the American side.

[badamson10]

Mrspaceacer is a moron. Ignore him. I like your intro. Its gritty and real.

[LgndryThndr]

So much for that piece of shit mig.

FUCKED BY A PROP PLANE, SUCK IT RUSSIA!

YOU BROKE FUCKING COCK SUCKERS!

[vodkasvictim]

Well done america for winning this war....

....what? You lost?

...But yeah, I win at...

What do you win at america?

....

[LgndryThndr]

@vodkasvictim

Fair fights.

[vodkasvictim]

@LgndryThndr

*laughs*

[LgndryThndr]

@vodkasvictim

Russian pilots put in migs in vietnam

HERPUS DERPUS.

[vodkasvictim]

@LgndryThndr

Source.

Why don't you tell me what HERPUS DERPUS means.

Your anti-Russian bias is extremely amusing btw, how do you explain the fact that they beat the yanks into space?

[LgndryThndr]

@vodkasvictim

Herpus Derpus interbutt mockery.

stolen german tech, but while you were fucking around in the atmosphere, we kinda sorta claimed that thing in the sky, whats it called?

OH RIGHT THE FUCKING MOON.

Source? country admission herpus derpus.

[kdraper2007]

@vodkasvictim the war was won militarily, it was lost by the leftists in the American government. when U.S. forces left Vietnam

the north was a shambles. had the politicians let the military loose, it would have been done quickly.

[rotateleft]

those skyraiders are massive for a single engine plane!

[SicMetalArmy]

This video is bullshit,, its just showing stupid americans shooting down the vietnam planes,,, but theres nowere the reall true where vietnm planes are damm hardly shooting down the american planes.

[emmthreejonny]

@SicMetalArmy Not very stupid then, huh?

[kdraper2007]

@SicMetalArmy Check your history, the North Vietnamease air force was nearly worthless. they were used mainly as Flak bait to lure the U.S. aircraft into flak traps & hidden Sam concentrations. Vietnamease pilots were under complete control from the ground they were not allowed inititive.

[jadvs73]

The comunist pilot was a rookie, perhaps his soviet instructors hadn't had the opportunity to explain him what a HIGH YO YO was. One's mistakes are the enemy's opportunities.

[dmtau]

But in the place at Hanoi . .more then few thousans US planes there ! So those Video clips mean any ?How about now ,today . .Somalia. .Aden.. .Malacca...Chile,Hawaii...wher­e those great "Pilots" ... . come on ! if they are old ! Their children.. .?????????

[kdraper2007]

@jadvs73 the pilot has no say in the manuvers he uses, as he was being commanded by an officer sitting on the ground. personal inititive was considered suspect in communist Vietnam had the U.S. made a serious effort to jam the NVAF's comms, they would have rendered the migs totally worthless instead of mostly worthless.

[jadvs73]

@kdraper2007 Ultimatly, he has, he's the one who's flying the plane and when he decided to make the frontal attack (orders given to him or not) he didn't seam to have neither the experience (roockie) or good sense to figure out the suicide the maneuver meant. During the previous rear attack (made by the book) he took almost no risks to himself but when he, frustrated, decided to face, head on, eight 20mm guns blazing...i think i made my point...

[Highice007]

@jadvs73 Either that, or he was feeling very arrogant in his shiny new fighter jet, going up against Korean War era prop planes. He probably thought it was going to be an easy kill.

[fidan2fast]

the A-1 skyraider is my favourite basher

ultimate firepower

[TuAFFalcon]

At the start, what did the Mig-17 fire onto the Skyraiders? Air to Air missile or was it a rocket lol? Because it just went straight down. I dont think the MiG-17 had air to air missiles?

[SmoothAsPB]

Don't know if missles had heat or radar lock. Anyway , I'm a Skyraider fan. (Models/ Books/ Video) Tough looking airplane. Impressive at air shows the few times i've seen one

[TuAFFalcon]

Im pretty sure Mig-17's didnt have missiles. Just cannons like the mig-15. The Mig-19 had Atoll short range AAM's.

[kdraper2007]

@TuAFFalcon Some Mig-17's had missiles, some didn't. some had Afterburners, some didn't. I believe it depended on the senority of the pilot.

[TuAFFalcon]

@kdraper2007 Either way that commie pilot was bad. 1 week of training peasents and thats what you get.

[kdraper2007]

@SmoothAsPB Mig-17's had no radar, or at most a basic gunnery radar. only some versions carried the ATOLL missile which was a soviet copy of the AIM-9 sidewinder heat seeking missile.

[ltshiro]

Skyraider didn't have big enough heat source for iR Air to Air missile to lock on.

[TuAFFalcon]

Ye especially for the single color seeker heads of the days. Ye and the Mig-17 didnt have AAM's. Fired a unguided rocket.

[Point50Cal]

@TuAFFalcon

A few variants of the MiG-17 do in fact carry air-to-air missiles, but they are very rarely fitted onto the MiGs, let alone being used.

[TuAFFalcon]

Ye the latter versions i guess.

[P51F86F4F15F22]

most likely a air to air missile

[Historystartsnow]

I worked to edit these videos into segments. Would you like someone to just come and post your videos? No you wouldn't sir.

[Historystartsnow]

Ok? Is there a reason you're cursing at me for? Because I don't see how I offended you. I made the intro because people were copying them and uploading them as their own.

[kornek21]

@Historystartsnow dont listen to him man, he's just jealous because he dosnt know how to post or edit videos on youtube, thanks for posting these vids, im using the dogfight series in my paper work, im an historian so i do alot of paper work lol

[TheGroundedAviator]

The good old-fashioned way!

[CMDRFandragon]

I watched a few episodes like a week ago.....there are no new episodes but they do show the old ones

[MrMayhemskyline]

kilqmember55 nice little story your maths is a little off though

[justforever96]

@MrMayhemskyline- What was this idiot "kliqmember555" all about? I'm always curious when I see a comment that has been "thumbs-downed" so many times. I don't know why, but the stupidity of some people really interests me. I wonder if anyone will ever figure out FOR SURE why some people act like such fucking morons. I have my own theories, but then again, I may be stupid myself! LOL.

[kliqmember555]

i was 16 i am 35 now

[P51F86F4F15F22]

bullshit

[kliqmember555]

love this because i was an airman in vietnam lost lots of buddys

[Historystartsnow]

You'd have to be in your 50's at least...

[dumbnstuck]

do they sitll air this? i haven't seen it in a while. PLEASE REPLY

[Historystartsnow]

I haven't seen it on T.V. in ages but you can buy the dvd

[P51F86F4F15F22]

how do u up load it on youtube

[christopoll24]

I saw it a little bit ago in History International, I think in History they don't but they still show it in International

[Mobius1Rocks]

Hey same too, they somehow stop airing this. I haven't seen it for months already and I would want to know why they aired other boring and stupid channels.

[Markiatoo]

Sir,you really have a great channel.I have favourited several of your videos so far!Hope my writing in English isn´t to bad,greetings from Munich Germany,Markiatoo.

[Historystartsnow]

Sir, your English is by far better than many Americans. Greetings from Illinois.

[whitesox889]

What town?

[Historystartsnow]

Wheeling

[justforever96]

LOL, I was going to tell you that your English was fine, but the guy who posted the video already said it best. You DO write English well, only it's so good, it looks strange compared to most semi-literate American writing. I guess I'm sometime guilty of the same thing though. So, "Greetings", from Vermont. (That's a State in the USA. A very small state...I've met other Americans who don't even know this is a state! ("Vermont"? Hmm....that's in Texas, right?") LOL, sorry. I'm drunk right now =P

[trav1971]

LOVE THIS SHOW!