@arivas713 well the industrial revolution in america was very much like that. and even closer to what you say is china's great leap forward that took place in the late 50's and early 60's under mao zedong's rule. thats not to say they didnt have their share of problems, of course, and the great leap forward actually caused many people to starve to death in fact. but it was rapid industrialization, within a generation or two in fact.
I makes me sad that so many people who wants to help the poor hurt them by restricting what already little options they have. If they're responsible enough to look at both sides of the argument, then the impoverished would be much better off.
Leftists make me ill. Why is it that there knee-jerk reaction to everything is government regulation? We live in a world that allows compelling videos to go viral and change the minds of the people. Make your case to the public about Walmart, Nike etc. and let the market choose.
i do not care if free trade helps poor countries we should not care about them the left is right when they say free trade hurts working people all around the world and corporations are the main beneficaries for example look at china it looks out for its interests only and does care what people look at tibet if a white country were doing that than i think we know there would be a lot more protests
Many women break up their families as soon as they don't need the man financially, yet this guy resorts to the misandric cliche of 'capitalism helping third world women flee from their abusive husbands. What a insult to all third world men!
@Andybaby Really? Do you not see how your blind, completely biased view point on capitalism has made you basically say this guy looks down on the third world with there being zero evidence for this?
That man saying that kids have always had to work in bad conditions. Why should the corporations exploit that? It's like a corp.boss telling a kid, "Look! You have to work with broken bones before. So, why don't I break one, now"
@jrwel14 You still haven't gotten it, huh? There's no "exploiting" going on (well except in actual slave labor, but thanks to you people's "wage slavery" nonsense, it's virtually impossible to tell what products were actually made by forced labor...)
The choice isn't between working in great conditions or working in bad conditions, it's between working in bad conditions or starving! If the corporations were to eliminate work in "bad conditions", these children would starve!
@fab006 What's sad is that it is you people who don't get it. Some Asian countries. With people taking out harmful metals in old computer equiptment. The water supply in some towns are polluted . Why not pay them and let them work in good conditions.
@jrwel14 It's called slow development. It's as if you people don't want the rest of the world to actually develop. As the wealth of a country grows, so does its ability to keep things clean. Please name a third world country on the planet that has great environmental laws? It's the last thing on their fucking mind. It takes money to enforce these kinds of things.
@munkyusm So, better to exploit the poor countries by telling them. You have unsafe water before. So, why should you mind if we pollute it further with heavy metals? You guys are a freaking joke!
@jrwel14 I'm done with this convo, I don't know if you read my response, but I actually put thought into it. "you guys are a freaking joke" is not really a rational response.
@KripDrip no its about skills the absence of sertain skills is what thier taking advantage of, minimum wage sucks its better to negotiate your wages alright, for instance i wouldn't mind working 10$/ an hour as a cashier in order to save money and some one else would probably want to work for 9$ or 12$ or even 5$ corperations can pay more but they don't have to, they aren't positively motivated allow competition not stupid laws. you can't force success, if i want your workers i will pay more.
Does Johann Norberg remember for the same 200 years during which we "developed" our society so we do not want to work in sweat shops, we have sucked a lot of wealth out off the same countries where we offer sweat shops to work in now?
@DrNikol2007 What are these kids going to do when the shops are taken away? Go back to the schools that don't exist? and eat the food they don't have?
@ShatterNWO Do you think these 'happy workers' appeared like mushrooms after the yesterday's rain? Of course not! They were there, they had what to do and what to eat. Most of us who did not experience the real economy, forgot to think there was life there even before our investors popped up there. What happens in their society is redistribution of the work force. Our investments in the third World are welcomed but they are not a panacea. We have morals; we don't buy goods from sweat-shops.
@DrNikol2007 Do you know what they would do to eat before? Join the local war lords gang, turn to prostitution, and rob fellow citizens. They are not working at these factories because they have better options, they don't, unless you know of sweat shops where ppl were literally forced to work. Sustainable prosperity isn't going to come from charity or foreign aid that gets pocketed by murderous dictators. What is your solution?
@ShatterNWO It's not important what did they do for living before. If human resources existed prior to us hence, they managed to meet the ends. You sound like a knowledgeable person that do not need to be lectured. What I had in mined was this arrogant Swedish author forgets for the morals. The reasoning he uses 'children's labor was their practice before' is no good. We would we get involved in a society that has practice of cannibalism, would we. My solution: we don't low our standards.
Our entrepreneurs who invest there may have thousands of excuses; we are the society that can say do not even start unacceptable practices because we are not going to put up with. The myth "globalization is good" for all is not going to be longer. There are three obvious for everyone effects out of it - capitalists got richer, our workers lost their jobs and, we are flooded of low quality mrchandise for less prices. Search for Richard Wolff's lecture
@DrNikol2007 You are not dealing with the why. Why do businesses look outside of the US for manufacturing when we use to be the leader in manufacturing? True tax rates are much higher, there are many more regulations and the Unions demands got too big. Protectionism isn't going to bring jobs back, just kill jobs overseas.
@ShatterNWO Taxes haven't been this low compared to GDP since Eisenhower. Now, 35% 1988-1990 28% and late 1920s 25% otherwise, taxes have been as high as 90%
@jrwel14 But the income tax wasn't largely enforced until the 50's and nobody paid those rates because money was harder to track, loop holes and offshore tax shelters, plus the super rich get their money largely from dividends, not income.
@jrwel14 Really, like they went after Geithner, Bank of America, and GE. The income tax wasn't largely enforced until the 1950's. The mega banks wrote the federal reserve act which led to the creation of the IRS and income tax. They literally created this system to rob the middle class and the rich they aren't in bed with.
Johann Norberg's example workers want more jobs in sweat shops reminds me the famous defense of slavery in Texas with the argument slavery is good because the slave owner takes care of the slaves unlike free slaves have nobody to care for them or the argument of a pimp that the prostitutes have need of protection against bad men-clients. How cynical!
@fab006, why be ashamed? Did you misunderstand? I was comparing the excuses of Johann Norberg to the excuse a Texas slave owner during the Civil War. One cannot excuse the exploitation of third world workers because they have gotten jobs in return; in analogy, one cannot excuse slave ownership with the fact that the slaves get minimal care in return. We cannot call this trade fair: Spaniards get gold and Aztecs get glass bids in return even if latter were happy.
@DrNikol2007 I understood exactly what you wanted to say. And you should be ashamed of exactly that. To compare this to slavery is inexcusably insensitive towards real slaves.
@DrNikol2007 Are you kidding me? How do you miss the fundamental difference between having a job and being a slave? FORCE is used in slavery...in the other situation, people work there because it's better than the alternative - working 16 hrs a day in a field, harvesting roots to eat. I'm so sick of this retarded notion that somehow two parties voluntarily agreeing to something is somehow evil...the way you speak suggests that you've never actually struggled to achieve anything in life.
@munkyusm, In their business relations with us, third world countries have no real choice. Usually we have 'take it or leave it' approach to them. We use their raw materials, labor, and pollute their environment for not too much in return for them. You’re a victim of our North American propaganda.
The life is a struggle. I have two bachelor’s, master’s, and doctor’s degrees in addition to 25 years scientists work. Watch on u tube Chomsky and Niall Ferguson and pay attention to the facts only.
@DrNikol2007 This is complete rubbish. Slavery = forcing someone to work against their will. Employment = a total voluntary action that someone would not do if it did not benefit them in some way. You have to understand what the third world is like before you go off spewing this mindless garbage. If they weren't working for a wage, they'd be working 16 hrs in a field, harvesting roots to eat or worse...sitting around starving. I swear, it's like you people don't want them to develop...
@munkyusm re: "This is complete rubbish" Employment would be voluntary actions if one had another choice. If you are not reach, do you have it? Some times you can't choose even your employer - in corporate capitalism. If Walmart comes to your small town and kills all mom & pap's businesses you go to work for them involuntary.
I want third countries to develop but off the hands of western neon-colonialism.
@DrNikol2007 You're way off base. Wal-Mart is part of the government. It literally could not exist without the legal shield that the state provides it. Wikipedia - "corporation". I'm all about mom and pop business, but it will never happen as long as we have the state recognizing imaginary creations such as "Wal'Mart" as a person. How do you end corporatism? Easy, end the fed.
@munkyusm I think it is the other way around; government is a part of the corporations and this is a symptom of fascism.Corporatism is another destruction from the real issue - CAPITALISM. Do you know what is funny? It is not necessary to deny the corporation to be persons. We need just change our election laws to one human - one vote.
@cosmopolite66 So you think a mom and pop business is somehow evil? You think trading with each other is somehow evil? Whether it be goods or labor in exchange for goods?
@munkyusm In 21st century we are way forward from the time we used to trade naturally. Now we work for pay and pay for life - money is the universal equivalent of all goods and services. Mom & pap business still exists only in social structure that are a little outdated. The tendency in capitalist society is to create structures as Wall-Mart which is a product of deregulation started during Reagan's administration maintain by Clinton's and Bush's governments. In economy evil does not exist.
@cosmopolite66 Wal-Mart is not a product of deregulation...you're missing the all too obvious truth. Without the state granting Wal-Mart, or any corporation, with the legal shield and title of a corporation to begin with, Wal-Mart would not even exist. Corporations are legal thieves - it grants shareholders the right to suck the profits out of a corporation without being responsible for any of the wrong doing or losses that the corporation gets involved in.
@munkyusm You are right in what you are saying except to the first sentence. Wall-Mart is a monopolistic structure as most of the big corporations like Microsoft, Oracle, Facebook, Google, Bank of America, Citigroup, Morgan Stanly, etc., which exist because of deregulation of anti-monopoly barriers in the laws. This deregulation started with cumming to power the Reagan's administration and continued Bush, Clinton, Bush (son) and Obama.
@cosmopolite66 You are making this up...you wish that a few magical regulations will fix it, but you're wrong. What you're saying is "I hate corporations, but I want them to exist so we can tax them and use that money."
@munkyusm You're lumpen thinker - 'tabula rasa' -- off any sense. Don't waste your time with me; nothing penetrates your ignorance; you're panzer . And you are not a magician.
@munkyusm to say "without government, corporations would not exist" is b. s. Reality is: without the corporation this type of government will not be elected.
@munkyusm What you mean "end the Feds." Capitalist market economy is influenced by many stochastic parameters and some kind of regulations have to be implemented which is one of the important roles of the feds. You can change it but cannot end it. You are for mom & pap's tradition but it's gone forever. Society does not stay in the same place too long it evolves. So better figure out new good form of existence than waste time to restore the old ones. Walmarts are real...
Fight all you want capitalism works better than nukes and guns. its sad. I should say that true capitalism would still do this but we are looking at a plutonomy invading every corner of the world. It doesnt help that every corner of the world is connected. its political economy and its ignorant to think there are any isolated safe place. Long live true free trade.
ever seen how kids wored in the us back in the old days in the us it was because hte family was poor and poor tommy was able to work longest and hardest to make the most because mom could not work (laws) dad died from work and so tommy was forced into it because of need. if u make it so there no need then great but tell u do then don't cry on kids working in a shop.
The problem that most people fail to notice is that all these jobs are taken at free will. So obviously the workers would rather spend their time at that factory, otherwise why not go to the next employer down the street who pays more?.. Oh right, there aren't any who pay more.
If you want to cherry pick your facts carefully enough, and use sufficiently limited paradigms, you can then credit capitalsim with anything you want to.
and yes, next time you should underline that you also providing the kids FREE EDUCATION, not that fake state education, but the real skills that market needs, i.e. sewing t-shirts and obeying your white master
@soccer92489 I love it when people like you have convinced themselves that the very economic system that provided you with the ability to post this type of nonsense on the internet is also what is wrong with the world.
@munkyusm North Korea vs South Korea.... Hong Kong vs Chad... all 4 of these nations were poor 50 years ago take a guess a which 2 are the top 10 richest countries per capa and also take a guess which two have the most economic freedom. This my friend is called facts not some random statement like "ability to post this type of nonsense on the internet is also what is wrong with the world." Liberals... Common sense is a weakness
A lot of people know about Napoleon Bonaparte's comment on China as "a sleeping dragon". If China is a sleeping dragon, most of Africa if a comatose Titan.
I wil support free trade if we eleminated the minium wage and eleminatd welfair this way if wages drop due to unemplyment here the big companies would be reqwured to boost sells in the 3rdworld and things even out
@upyr1 That's a good point, in the end the cost of shipping the materials back to here would mean more jobs staying in America. But then, you've got to enforce the borders too, cause then it will basically be illegal immigrant sweatshops.
I definitely need to get some more views on this subject. The views provided are rather interesting, making me wonder if low quality jobs, though initially harmful, are a temporary and necessary evil that could lead to economic prosperity. I'm still interested in learning more, however.
@justicetrooper You are on to something, bro. Poor people take sweat shop jobs only when it is their best option. Many stories have been reported about third world women who, when the fabric sweat shops they worked in were shut down, had to resort to becoming prostitutes to survive.
@fzqlcs This actual subject put aside, when I think about it I'm not quite onto anything by simply regurgitating a conclusion and clinging to it because it seems to make sense at the time without seeking out something to disprove or invalidate this conclusion. That's how it seems I reached my prior value, and by chance stumbled upon this one. Without actively searching an even more agreeable value, how am I to say this one is the best readily available conclusion?
@justicetrooper Continue to investigate the issues for sure, but in the end, I am confident your current suspicions will be confirmed. Just lean on history.
Jerome Corsi who is a staunch conservative wrote a book deploring Globalism. Why is Stossel so in favor of it? It is because of globalism that we've had a 0 net increase in jobs over the last decade.
@shamgar001 without PRODUCTS being Produced what the hell are they going to buy!? and continued borrowing only makes the currency lose value. so inevitably they won't be able to buy anything anyways. And not soon after the producers would stop producing. then you'd just have abject poverty and misery.
@fenderboy88 not even that pal! They're necessary...but they're are definitely not evil! They are helping people who live in low very standards of living to start climbing up the ladder.
Government can only provide temporary jobs for hard working Americans giving them false hope of a future because of the open market and don't expect them to do something about it any time soon. My opinion is this" If they do what they need to do to fix it right they are afraid of causing a strain with China and other Nations leaving Americans with out a solid future. The very foundation that made America great was it's industries that both parties have wasted away
@polko59. Great! But have you ever thought of what would happen in the USA should the Government remove all regulations it imposes on companies so they(companies), decide whether or not to pay a living wage? I mean a scenario where all companies freely decide whether or not to operate and treat their workers wal-marts' like or worse? Cause that's what "Free Trade'' really is.
Wages are not determined by regulation. If they were, we would all be making minimum wage. Also, no one makes you work for a low wage. There is a point where people won't take a job for a low wage.
@xp19375 My point is: Why have regulation/minimum wage laws @ first place, if truly they're unnecessary? Alright! Remove all those regulations and be as free-market as Haiti or Indonesia and the likes!
@malairlostandfound Last time I checked I didn't see that Haiti and Indonedia have free economies. Without any regulation we would get wages according to our productivity. And even the lowest wages would still be high. If productivity increase and entrepreneurs produce lot of food, houses, TV screen etc., then even the poorer can afford it because it became really cheap.
@MrKiromunist I didn't say that the two countries are 'free economies'. I said ''free-market'' paradise given the fact that they allow sweat shops and companies like Union Carbide, Chevron, Exon Mobil to thrive and maximise profit without regulating them. The fact that you have what Milton Friedman called ''Government's inefficient controls in the form of regulations'' in terms of strict labour laws such as child labor, higher taxes on corporations as well as stern environmental laws, you're ...
@malairlostandfound I would say if minimum wage raises wealth and/or standard of living, then why not pay 100$ an hour, or 1,000$? Logically it's nonsense. This is str8 out of the Broken Window Fallacy of Bastiat...comparing the "seen" and not considering the "unseen". Someone sees the wage of a poorer worker go up when min wage is incepted. They don't see the lost economic momentum, slow of growth and hiring, etc.
johann's right, but forget to mention how USD is sucking wealth out of third world, americans were buying stuff for pure atrament painted paper..thats gonna end and it will not be sweat
I was born in Canada and I have worked since I was 5 years old. Children have the right to work as long as it doesn't get in the way of their government indoctrination... er, schooling. My first job was cleaning an office in a petrochemical plant. I still remember it with fondness. By the time I entered high school I had saved up enough to go to a private school. Now I am a successful entrepreneur who also runs a non-profit to help local children gain practical work experience.
This actually supplies a higher quality of life for these people. The funny thing is when people think a global government will supply these people with better quality of life.
Whenever I see the argument that [ ] corporation is exploitative because they only offer people [ ] $/hr I laugh so hard that it hurts.
If you think [ ] $/hr is exploitative then why don't you go there and open your own factory and pay them higher? The truth is you are just a loser and you know nothing about the industry or the world.
@DDG993@polko59. Great! But have you ever thought of what would happen in the USA should the Government remove all regulations it imposes on companies so they(companies), decide whether or not to pay a living wage? I mean a scenario where all companies freely decide whether or not to operate and treat their workers wal-marts' like or worse? Cause that's what "Free Trade'' really is.
What would happen is that companies would hire people based on how much competing companies would hire them for. Wages would go down so companies could spend more on themselves, increasing efficiency and lowering prices. So in reality living wages would go down, so whatever "evil company" price they might charge would be negated anyways by the lower cost of living that comes with economic freedom and efficiency.
@Smokecrackcain I meant what would the reaction of Americans be should Government decide to abandon the enforcement of minimum wage law like in Haiti or Bangladeshi?
@malairlostandfound If the minimum wage was abolished in america, unemployment would decrease so overall there would be more jobs available so that people who maybe dont have the skill to work at at payrate of minimum wage could at least find employment. overall some people would be made better of without hurting anyone else.
@malairlostandfound Everyone has their own opinion and ideas. a politician would most likely not endorse abolishing the minimum wage because I agree with you that most Americans would not vote for this. But economically speaking, what i said was true.
@koda5ive what you said was probably true in theory. But reality no Western country would dare embrace free trade with open arms. Not now. Not Ever. Reason why I believe that Countries like Indonesia, Haiti, Bangladesh...etc are the best example of free market as they don't have minimum wage laws, regulation on foreign companies and they even have 'free trade' zones in which they(foreign companies) are immune from any law within those countries. These countries are perfect free market models.
@malairlostandfound Hong Kong does not I have a minimum wage and has overall more free market compared to mainland China which is more restrictive. Someone in HK is way better off than in mainland China. as for "free trade zones" well in mainland china they have several "special economic zones" with deregulations on the market, these are the most prosperous cities of all. Shenzhen is one of these cities and it has the highest income in China, it is one of the fastest growing cities in the world.
@koda5ive@koda5ive Hong kong's economic foundation's been largely layed through its 157years alliance with the British Empire which went round the world amassing wealth through oppression and exploitation.I don't think it's fair to compare it with mainland China when clearly the later in just thirty years is today an economic power house to be reckoned with. China's Achieved all its economic success on its own, through strong Governmental guidance and regulations rather than free open market.
@malairlostandfound Hong Kong was able to grow because of the British policies which stayed out of economics and let the market operate by itself. The Chinese are hard working and with a free market they had an incentive to be more productive. People from mainland have moved there so they can operate their busines without government limitations. Hong Kong has had more time to for their economy to grow while mainland started to open up in 1978, and economic growth increased.
@malairlostandfound Please look at a ranking of countries economic freedom and also compare that to average income/ standard of living. Notice that Haiti is ranked 141 out of 179, so regardless of their wage laws as a whole it does not compare to US which is ranked # 8 on this list. I beleive that the original "American way" did not intend for government to make laws which restrict peoples' freedoms but that seems to be the trend.
@koda5ive I think Johann Norberg said it better: the west enjoys fair labour laws today because they once had to live/put up with free trade laws in the past. Therefore today as a result of their previous sacrifices, westerners today have the better life and economic standard than anyone else in the world. So, the champions of free trade out there should go out and tell the truth just like Johann Norberg has: free trade is good only for people of the third world and Not the west!
@malairlostandfound That's not what he said - we don't "enjoy" fair labor laws. We enjoy better standards of living, with or without labor laws, which are well-intended but useless when we have the economic opportunities and true freedom (and if need be, a social network to help us get started). Take child labor: you could re-legalize child labor in any wealthy nation and child exploitation would not increase. Why not? Because parents don't need the cash and usually aren't heartless idiots.
@ConscientiousMind 'Heartless idiots'' of the third world are the ones letting their children get exploited by western companies.Absolutely! But if your better standard of living is trully ''useless'' then why have labor laws strongly enforced at first place? Saying that ''we don't enjoy fair labour laws'' is utter nonsense! You have loads of unions and all forms Governmental laws to protect yourselves against rapacious corporatists.'Free' trade is 'good' for third world citizens, not YOU.
Labor laws become useless when people understand that they are free agents with the ability to choose better jobs. If a company exploits you, DON'T WORK FOR THEM. Choose a better job! Businesses need workers and they'll need to compete for them, so there's no need for twisting their arms.
By the way, I'm NOT against unions as watchdog groups, advisors and such - that's all beneficial. I'm against them having gov't support.
@malairlostandfound By heartless idiots I meant wealthy parents who don't need to send their children to work but do it anyway. That's in no way comparable to parents in third world countries whose circumstances force them to commit this unfortunate action.
@ConscientiousMind by heartless idiots I meant African leaders who allow foreign Government/Corporations to dictate them economic rules to the detriment of Africa's environment and people.George Washington in his inauguration ceremony refused to wear imported clothes and he further more hired Alexander Hamilton as treasure secretary.Third world nations need to follow the examples George Washington if their to''... do free trade two hundred years from now'' according to president Ulysee Grant.
@malairlostandfound I have not studied these other countries but a quick search on wiki read: (The country is heavily corrupt. Every year much of the humanitarian aid is pocketed by officials. According to a World Bank report in 2006, "In Haiti, the process of business regulations is complex and customs procedures are lengthy.") and it goes on to talk about how it a very restrictive market, so even if they dont have minimum wage laws, their economy does not seem to be free market policies.
@koda5ive In 1994 the Californian assembly made it a crime for property owners to increase price of appartments in the city after the earthquake. Increasing the price of basic necessities more than 10% was equally criminal. Senator Dianne Feinstein claimed that inflating was '' not the American way''. Haiti is a perpetual earthquake. Given American companies insist on doing business there combined with its lack of minimum wage law is indication that it's just as frree market as Uncle Sam.
@koda5ive unemployment would decrease but it there is a flip side... the income gap between rich and poor would skyrocket, the avereage standard of living would fall the middle class would collapse, and we would become mexico
@MrAlways55 interesting, why do you think that the middle class would collapse? Does the middle class work at minimum wage jobs or do they earn a salary higher than that. If you are earning above minimum wage then if it were abolished, there would be no reason for your wage to change at because your work is valued higher than that level.
@koda5ive because labor laws such as minimum wages and collective bargaining are the foundations of the middle class... capitalism is best for overall economic growth but unchecked it tends to produce wide gaps between rich and poor... advanced labor laws help to mitigate that and encourage a middle ground
@MrAlways55 - Minimum wage laws are not the foundation of the middle class, neither is collective bargaining. More laws reduce hiring, and hurt the middle class, and keep the poorest people poor. Laws against fraud, and employment by force are needed, but laws that restrict voluntary trade of labor are not helpful.
Gaps between the rich and poor in a free market will occur, but they aren't neccesarily bad. Everyone has more, the poor in the US live better than rich did 100 years ago.
@MrAlways55 - Mexico has a minimum wage. Wage gaps are not neccesarily bad, but you assume they are because you assume a zero-sum view of economics.
If your income triples, and mine only doubles, the wage gap has increased, yet both of use are better off.
You want to drop the stardard of living, add restrictions to trade to create artificial equality. Nothing has ever reduced the standard of living better than the violent redistribution of wealth.
I can never understand why protesters like these just don't ask the child directly. Just go up to a child and ask "do you like working here?" Ask their parents too "how's life?"
@durentu@polko59. Great! But have you ever thought of what would happen in the USA should the Government remove all regulations it imposes on companies so they(companies), decide whether or not to pay a living wage? I mean a scenario where all companies freely decide whether or not to operate and treat their workers wal-marts' like or worse? Cause that's what "Free Trade'' really is.
It shows why our jobs are exported. Not because of explotation but because of unions. Unions price workers out of the market. It is cheaper to build factories in China to produce goods. There is children working in horrible conditions that crave a job at the Nike factory. It's sad but true. wouldn't be surprised if chevy's aren't made eventually by children in Kenya.
Free trade doesnt cause oppression, it is people who are bad people who who force kids to work. Not only that it is a lack of proper rules and regulation that is the cause of this.
@Everydayconservative Kids aren't working because someone is forcing them to, the kids are working because REALITY is forcing them to. Regulation won't magically make those countries more productive. By allowing these countries to do what is most economically efficient (including letting their children work), they will get to a point where their kids won't HAVE to work anymore.
@hahahaspam Kids shouldn't be working, they should be in school. Schools payed by their governments leader's commissions which are payed by the big companies that are there exploiting their land. But big companies take advantage of the poor and give such small commissions that they can only cover so little. These minerals cost so much more than is given to the countries. They call it bussines, but it has no merit. They're taking advantage. Education is the way, not overpowering and/or distructio
@mpc91 The companies are giving these people 'a cow' cause people NEED the money. These people are investing their lives just in existing. If the conditions are better it doesnt mean that they are fair. The labor they do costs much more in other countries for a reason and it is unfair not only to the people we are talking about, but to people who live in the countries where these companies come from. Law is made and they evade it, then try to come out as country rescuers.
@burns83 - You ignore purchasing power completely. You ignore cost of living completely. Yes, labor costs more in other countries because everything costs more in other countries. A dollor in New York goes farther in Maine, and goes much farther in Africa or Latin America.
You keep using the word "fair", but you don't get that what you want is fair to no one but your philosophy. If these companies left tomorrow their employees would not be better off. Everyone benefits.
@mpc91 Dont get that personal. Im not talking about fair to my philosophy. Companies should pay more to these third world country people, they may be able to employ cheaper but not as cheap as they do. In the case countries are able to employ people from other countries cause its better for their moneys worth , they should pay a sum much closer to the one they pay in their own countries, while still being able to spend less moeny. I know thats not happening, they are sucking as much as they can.
not everything is cheaper. Certain items are global commodities and it doesnt matter if you make $1 a day. An xbox game is $60 over there just like in America.
@hahahaspam Yes! You get IT ! It is the marginal productivity per worker that is the most important indicator of wealth!! Policy must be focused on encouraging growth in per worker productivity!
@hahahaspam They aren't forcing them to? Jesus Christ, take a look at the child slaves in Ivory Coast's chocolate fields, in India's mica industry, and harvesting shrimp in Thailand. And lets not even get started on what's going on in the Congo. Yes, slavery does exist, and it is forced labor. If you don't know a damn thing about international economics, then don't comment on it.
@thirteendays13 The Congo? Really? You want to bring up an example where the alternative to working is to go fight in a militia? If you don't know a damn thing about geopolitics, then don't comment on it.
@hahahaspam Joining a militia is not an option for everyone who lives there, but the colton, copper, and other valuable minerals and metals that are stolen by militias at gunpoint end up in our economy. Which by the way, very much fits the main point I was making that free trade does nothing to help the world's poor. Feel free to comment on the other examples, which of course also benefit us, while leaving others impoverished.
@hahahaspam Your argument was that people aren't forcing people to take jobs, in the Congo, if a gun is pointed at you, you will pretty much jump into the mine. If you think it is an extreme case, then consider that Coca Cola uses gum arabic from the Sudan. There are countless products in our economy that support violent thugs and extreme oppression.
I can't do anything else.
returnoftheramble 2 days ago
yeah, I get bored; I wouldn't mind a sweat shop.
returnoftheramble 2 days ago
Fuck Capitalism! Workers of the must world unite & fight for Socialism!
gavinbarber 6 days ago
@gavinbarber
Where are you from? Did you ever experience socialism? No? So shut your fucking assmouth.
Lengyel89 4 days ago 2
@gavinbarber I think you're a century or so too late with that
cdoftx 2 days ago
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wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_rich_dont_want_you_to_know_about_taxes.html
MMZen 2 months ago
I think to imagine that a nation or peoples would make a quantum leap from subsistence agriculture to a modern industrial nation in one go is unreal.
arivas713 2 months ago
@arivas713 well the industrial revolution in america was very much like that. and even closer to what you say is china's great leap forward that took place in the late 50's and early 60's under mao zedong's rule. thats not to say they didnt have their share of problems, of course, and the great leap forward actually caused many people to starve to death in fact. but it was rapid industrialization, within a generation or two in fact.
lalem91 2 months ago
June is gorgeous. I love hearing about the changes in Africa brought upon mobile phones. Its amazing
moderatecanuck 3 months ago
@moderatecanuck Imagine that considering the natural resources used in cell phones computers playstation and etc come from Africa.
arronnov 3 months ago
I makes me sad that so many people who wants to help the poor hurt them by restricting what already little options they have. If they're responsible enough to look at both sides of the argument, then the impoverished would be much better off.
ca1cifer 3 months ago
Their not there
66gtb 3 months ago
Leftists make me ill. Why is it that there knee-jerk reaction to everything is government regulation? We live in a world that allows compelling videos to go viral and change the minds of the people. Make your case to the public about Walmart, Nike etc. and let the market choose.
66gtb 3 months ago
i do not care if free trade helps poor countries we should not care about them the left is right when they say free trade hurts working people all around the world and corporations are the main beneficaries for example look at china it looks out for its interests only and does care what people look at tibet if a white country were doing that than i think we know there would be a lot more protests
mccarc44 3 months ago
@mccarc44 LOL, I can't stop laughing at this statement.
moderatecanuck 3 months ago
@mccarc44 Are you serious? I'm not sure whether you're being satirical
ElJefer 3 months ago
Many women break up their families as soon as they don't need the man financially, yet this guy resorts to the misandric cliche of 'capitalism helping third world women flee from their abusive husbands. What a insult to all third world men!
Andybaby 4 months ago
@Andybaby Really? Do you not see how your blind, completely biased view point on capitalism has made you basically say this guy looks down on the third world with there being zero evidence for this?
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm
This isn't about Capitalism. Could he not have made his point without resorting to misandry?
Andybaby 4 months ago
The reason that there is so much poverty in the Third World is because they are NOT being "exploited".
steve0281 4 months ago
@steve0281 Excellent point.
munkyusm 4 months ago
That man saying that kids have always had to work in bad conditions. Why should the corporations exploit that? It's like a corp.boss telling a kid, "Look! You have to work with broken bones before. So, why don't I break one, now"
jrwel14 4 months ago
@jrwel14 You still haven't gotten it, huh? There's no "exploiting" going on (well except in actual slave labor, but thanks to you people's "wage slavery" nonsense, it's virtually impossible to tell what products were actually made by forced labor...)
The choice isn't between working in great conditions or working in bad conditions, it's between working in bad conditions or starving! If the corporations were to eliminate work in "bad conditions", these children would starve!
fab006 4 months ago
@fab006 What's sad is that it is you people who don't get it. Some Asian countries. With people taking out harmful metals in old computer equiptment. The water supply in some towns are polluted . Why not pay them and let them work in good conditions.
jrwel14 4 months ago
@jrwel14 It's called slow development. It's as if you people don't want the rest of the world to actually develop. As the wealth of a country grows, so does its ability to keep things clean. Please name a third world country on the planet that has great environmental laws? It's the last thing on their fucking mind. It takes money to enforce these kinds of things.
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm So, better to exploit the poor countries by telling them. You have unsafe water before. So, why should you mind if we pollute it further with heavy metals? You guys are a freaking joke!
jrwel14 4 months ago
@jrwel14 I'm done with this convo, I don't know if you read my response, but I actually put thought into it. "you guys are a freaking joke" is not really a rational response.
munkyusm 4 months ago
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@munkyusm You are the joke!
jrwel14 4 months ago
these multibillion dollar corporations can easily afford to pay decent wages. Why dont they? Theyre taking advantage of the conditions over there.
KripDrip 3 months ago
@KripDrip no its about skills the absence of sertain skills is what thier taking advantage of, minimum wage sucks its better to negotiate your wages alright, for instance i wouldn't mind working 10$/ an hour as a cashier in order to save money and some one else would probably want to work for 9$ or 12$ or even 5$ corperations can pay more but they don't have to, they aren't positively motivated allow competition not stupid laws. you can't force success, if i want your workers i will pay more.
Tethloach1 2 months ago
Does Johann Norberg remember for the same 200 years during which we "developed" our society so we do not want to work in sweat shops, we have sucked a lot of wealth out off the same countries where we offer sweat shops to work in now?
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@DrNikol2007 What are these kids going to do when the shops are taken away? Go back to the schools that don't exist? and eat the food they don't have?
ShatterNWO 4 months ago
@ShatterNWO Do you think these 'happy workers' appeared like mushrooms after the yesterday's rain? Of course not! They were there, they had what to do and what to eat. Most of us who did not experience the real economy, forgot to think there was life there even before our investors popped up there. What happens in their society is redistribution of the work force. Our investments in the third World are welcomed but they are not a panacea. We have morals; we don't buy goods from sweat-shops.
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@DrNikol2007 Do you know what they would do to eat before? Join the local war lords gang, turn to prostitution, and rob fellow citizens. They are not working at these factories because they have better options, they don't, unless you know of sweat shops where ppl were literally forced to work. Sustainable prosperity isn't going to come from charity or foreign aid that gets pocketed by murderous dictators. What is your solution?
ShatterNWO 4 months ago
@ShatterNWO It's not important what did they do for living before. If human resources existed prior to us hence, they managed to meet the ends. You sound like a knowledgeable person that do not need to be lectured. What I had in mined was this arrogant Swedish author forgets for the morals. The reasoning he uses 'children's labor was their practice before' is no good. We would we get involved in a society that has practice of cannibalism, would we. My solution: we don't low our standards.
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@ShatterNWO Please read "mined" as "mind"
Our entrepreneurs who invest there may have thousands of excuses; we are the society that can say do not even start unacceptable practices because we are not going to put up with. The myth "globalization is good" for all is not going to be longer. There are three obvious for everyone effects out of it - capitalists got richer, our workers lost their jobs and, we are flooded of low quality mrchandise for less prices. Search for Richard Wolff's lecture
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@DrNikol2007 You are not dealing with the why. Why do businesses look outside of the US for manufacturing when we use to be the leader in manufacturing? True tax rates are much higher, there are many more regulations and the Unions demands got too big. Protectionism isn't going to bring jobs back, just kill jobs overseas.
ShatterNWO 4 months ago
@ShatterNWO Taxes haven't been this low compared to GDP since Eisenhower. Now, 35% 1988-1990 28% and late 1920s 25% otherwise, taxes have been as high as 90%
jrwel14 4 months ago
@jrwel14 But the income tax wasn't largely enforced until the 50's and nobody paid those rates because money was harder to track, loop holes and offshore tax shelters, plus the super rich get their money largely from dividends, not income.
ShatterNWO 4 months ago
@ShatterNWO They got capone on Income taxes. Those were the top marginal tax rates. But, people paid less due to deductions.
jrwel14 4 months ago
@jrwel14 Capone was a low level goon compared to the super rich.
ShatterNWO 4 months ago
@ShatterNWO So? they still got him on taxes!
jrwel14 4 months ago
@jrwel14 But thats the exception to the rule, Capone wasn't getting paid in dividends like most CEO's and hedge fund managers
ShatterNWO 4 months ago
@ShatterNWO IRS always went against tax evaders
jrwel14 4 months ago
@jrwel14 Really, like they went after Geithner, Bank of America, and GE. The income tax wasn't largely enforced until the 1950's. The mega banks wrote the federal reserve act which led to the creation of the IRS and income tax. They literally created this system to rob the middle class and the rich they aren't in bed with.
ShatterNWO 4 months ago
Johann Norberg's example workers want more jobs in sweat shops reminds me the famous defense of slavery in Texas with the argument slavery is good because the slave owner takes care of the slaves unlike free slaves have nobody to care for them or the argument of a pimp that the prostitutes have need of protection against bad men-clients. How cynical!
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@DrNikol2007 You should be ashamed of yourself. If there were still any former slaves around, I'd dare you to say that to their face.
fab006 4 months ago 2
@fab006, why be ashamed? Did you misunderstand? I was comparing the excuses of Johann Norberg to the excuse a Texas slave owner during the Civil War. One cannot excuse the exploitation of third world workers because they have gotten jobs in return; in analogy, one cannot excuse slave ownership with the fact that the slaves get minimal care in return. We cannot call this trade fair: Spaniards get gold and Aztecs get glass bids in return even if latter were happy.
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@DrNikol2007 I understood exactly what you wanted to say. And you should be ashamed of exactly that. To compare this to slavery is inexcusably insensitive towards real slaves.
fab006 4 months ago 2
@DrNikol2007 Are you kidding me? How do you miss the fundamental difference between having a job and being a slave? FORCE is used in slavery...in the other situation, people work there because it's better than the alternative - working 16 hrs a day in a field, harvesting roots to eat. I'm so sick of this retarded notion that somehow two parties voluntarily agreeing to something is somehow evil...the way you speak suggests that you've never actually struggled to achieve anything in life.
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm, In their business relations with us, third world countries have no real choice. Usually we have 'take it or leave it' approach to them. We use their raw materials, labor, and pollute their environment for not too much in return for them. You’re a victim of our North American propaganda.
The life is a struggle. I have two bachelor’s, master’s, and doctor’s degrees in addition to 25 years scientists work. Watch on u tube Chomsky and Niall Ferguson and pay attention to the facts only.
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@DrNikol2007 This is complete rubbish. Slavery = forcing someone to work against their will. Employment = a total voluntary action that someone would not do if it did not benefit them in some way. You have to understand what the third world is like before you go off spewing this mindless garbage. If they weren't working for a wage, they'd be working 16 hrs in a field, harvesting roots to eat or worse...sitting around starving. I swear, it's like you people don't want them to develop...
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm re: "This is complete rubbish" Employment would be voluntary actions if one had another choice. If you are not reach, do you have it? Some times you can't choose even your employer - in corporate capitalism. If Walmart comes to your small town and kills all mom & pap's businesses you go to work for them involuntary.
I want third countries to develop but off the hands of western neon-colonialism.
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
@DrNikol2007 You're way off base. Wal-Mart is part of the government. It literally could not exist without the legal shield that the state provides it. Wikipedia - "corporation". I'm all about mom and pop business, but it will never happen as long as we have the state recognizing imaginary creations such as "Wal'Mart" as a person. How do you end corporatism? Easy, end the fed.
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm I think it is the other way around; government is a part of the corporations and this is a symptom of fascism.Corporatism is another destruction from the real issue - CAPITALISM. Do you know what is funny? It is not necessary to deny the corporation to be persons. We need just change our election laws to one human - one vote.
cosmopolite66 4 months ago
@cosmopolite66 So you think a mom and pop business is somehow evil? You think trading with each other is somehow evil? Whether it be goods or labor in exchange for goods?
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm In 21st century we are way forward from the time we used to trade naturally. Now we work for pay and pay for life - money is the universal equivalent of all goods and services. Mom & pap business still exists only in social structure that are a little outdated. The tendency in capitalist society is to create structures as Wall-Mart which is a product of deregulation started during Reagan's administration maintain by Clinton's and Bush's governments. In economy evil does not exist.
cosmopolite66 4 months ago
@cosmopolite66 Wal-Mart is not a product of deregulation...you're missing the all too obvious truth. Without the state granting Wal-Mart, or any corporation, with the legal shield and title of a corporation to begin with, Wal-Mart would not even exist. Corporations are legal thieves - it grants shareholders the right to suck the profits out of a corporation without being responsible for any of the wrong doing or losses that the corporation gets involved in.
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm You are right in what you are saying except to the first sentence. Wall-Mart is a monopolistic structure as most of the big corporations like Microsoft, Oracle, Facebook, Google, Bank of America, Citigroup, Morgan Stanly, etc., which exist because of deregulation of anti-monopoly barriers in the laws. This deregulation started with cumming to power the Reagan's administration and continued Bush, Clinton, Bush (son) and Obama.
cosmopolite66 4 months ago
@cosmopolite66 You are making this up...you wish that a few magical regulations will fix it, but you're wrong. What you're saying is "I hate corporations, but I want them to exist so we can tax them and use that money."
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm You're lumpen thinker - 'tabula rasa' -- off any sense. Don't waste your time with me; nothing penetrates your ignorance; you're panzer . And you are not a magician.
cosmopolite66 4 months ago
@cosmopolite66 Say what you will, there's nothing ignorant about saying - without government, corporations would not exist.
munkyusm 4 months ago
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@munkyusm to say "without government, corporations would not exist" is b. s. Reality is: without the corporation this type of government will not be elected.
cosmopolite66 4 months ago
@munkyusm What you mean "end the Feds." Capitalist market economy is influenced by many stochastic parameters and some kind of regulations have to be implemented which is one of the important roles of the feds. You can change it but cannot end it. You are for mom & pap's tradition but it's gone forever. Society does not stay in the same place too long it evolves. So better figure out new good form of existence than waste time to restore the old ones. Walmarts are real...
DrNikol2007 4 months ago
Fight all you want capitalism works better than nukes and guns. its sad. I should say that true capitalism would still do this but we are looking at a plutonomy invading every corner of the world. It doesnt help that every corner of the world is connected. its political economy and its ignorant to think there are any isolated safe place. Long live true free trade.
dangerdan9000 5 months ago
ever seen how kids wored in the us back in the old days in the us it was because hte family was poor and poor tommy was able to work longest and hardest to make the most because mom could not work (laws) dad died from work and so tommy was forced into it because of need. if u make it so there no need then great but tell u do then don't cry on kids working in a shop.
darkisato 5 months ago
The problem that most people fail to notice is that all these jobs are taken at free will. So obviously the workers would rather spend their time at that factory, otherwise why not go to the next employer down the street who pays more?.. Oh right, there aren't any who pay more.
zdrux 5 months ago
If you want to cherry pick your facts carefully enough, and use sufficiently limited paradigms, you can then credit capitalsim with anything you want to.
slmrcs 6 months ago
Prostitution is also exploitation though women are willing participants.
mba2ceo 6 months ago
and yes, next time you should underline that you also providing the kids FREE EDUCATION, not that fake state education, but the real skills that market needs, i.e. sewing t-shirts and obeying your white master
ilovedlife 6 months ago
@ilovedlife how is your dumb poverty stricken russia???
paulstroie 6 months ago
racism + exploitation = profit!!!
the west teaches poor barbarians another great economics lesson
well done!
ilovedlife 6 months ago
@ilovedlife Racism? Really?
You dumb bro
Pseudomans 6 months ago 2
I fucking love Stossel.
chiikiita 6 months ago 2
I bet my dick is bigger than john stossel's and my pubes look better than his moustache does
IFknHateUTube 7 months ago
@IFknHateUTube all you have revealed with certainty is that your brain is smaller.
fzqlcs 7 months ago 5
I love when Fat White rich kids tell poor people how to live their life
soccer92489 7 months ago 8
@soccer92489
personally, i hate it
jumpyourbone 7 months ago
@soccer92489 I love it when people like you have convinced themselves that the very economic system that provided you with the ability to post this type of nonsense on the internet is also what is wrong with the world.
munkyusm 4 months ago
@munkyusm North Korea vs South Korea.... Hong Kong vs Chad... all 4 of these nations were poor 50 years ago take a guess a which 2 are the top 10 richest countries per capa and also take a guess which two have the most economic freedom. This my friend is called facts not some random statement like "ability to post this type of nonsense on the internet is also what is wrong with the world." Liberals... Common sense is a weakness
soccer92489 4 months ago
the poor around the wold are elated to work for a dollar a day. the alternative is zero dollar a day.
cirosuperiore 9 months ago 2
A lot of people know about Napoleon Bonaparte's comment on China as "a sleeping dragon". If China is a sleeping dragon, most of Africa if a comatose Titan.
WSWarthog 10 months ago 2
I wil support free trade if we eleminated the minium wage and eleminatd welfair this way if wages drop due to unemplyment here the big companies would be reqwured to boost sells in the 3rdworld and things even out
upyr1 10 months ago 2
@upyr1 That's a good point, in the end the cost of shipping the materials back to here would mean more jobs staying in America. But then, you've got to enforce the borders too, cause then it will basically be illegal immigrant sweatshops.
magicblanket 9 months ago
Comment removed
burns83 11 months ago
I definitely need to get some more views on this subject. The views provided are rather interesting, making me wonder if low quality jobs, though initially harmful, are a temporary and necessary evil that could lead to economic prosperity. I'm still interested in learning more, however.
justicetrooper 11 months ago
@justicetrooper You are on to something, bro. Poor people take sweat shop jobs only when it is their best option. Many stories have been reported about third world women who, when the fabric sweat shops they worked in were shut down, had to resort to becoming prostitutes to survive.
fzqlcs 11 months ago
@fzqlcs This actual subject put aside, when I think about it I'm not quite onto anything by simply regurgitating a conclusion and clinging to it because it seems to make sense at the time without seeking out something to disprove or invalidate this conclusion. That's how it seems I reached my prior value, and by chance stumbled upon this one. Without actively searching an even more agreeable value, how am I to say this one is the best readily available conclusion?
justicetrooper 11 months ago
@justicetrooper Continue to investigate the issues for sure, but in the end, I am confident your current suspicions will be confirmed. Just lean on history.
fzqlcs 11 months ago
people are lining up to get these jobs, so they are lining up to get exploited? Give me a break
ForTehNguyen 1 year ago
@ForTehNguyen Yea, poor people are highly sado-maschostic.. they want to get beat down. lol
larsiemannen 1 year ago
Jerome Corsi who is a staunch conservative wrote a book deploring Globalism. Why is Stossel so in favor of it? It is because of globalism that we've had a 0 net increase in jobs over the last decade.
regelemihai 1 year ago
@regelemihai It's also made us wealthier as a whole, because we can buy more with less work.
shamgar001 8 months ago 2
@shamgar001
But that's not real wealth. Real wealth isn't borrowed money. Real wealth comes from goods production.
regelemihai 8 months ago
@shamgar001 without PRODUCTS being Produced what the hell are they going to buy!? and continued borrowing only makes the currency lose value. so inevitably they won't be able to buy anything anyways. And not soon after the producers would stop producing. then you'd just have abject poverty and misery.
Ravengaurd6 8 months ago
Only a wealthy society can afford to investment time and money sending children to school.
studentofsmith 1 year ago
Great vid..i subbed from uk
ashken79 1 year ago
No not that it is directly causing it is an ethical argument... Its a complicated argument thats not what it says. That is a straw man...
AEVautomatic 1 year ago
0:33 That dude needs a lesson in economics
bishopbutter 1 year ago
God love Stossel and God love LibertyPen!
Krupification 1 year ago
the African girl is beautiful
BattleAngel 1 year ago
Sweatshops are a necessary evil
fenderboy88 1 year ago
@fenderboy88 not even that pal! They're necessary...but they're are definitely not evil! They are helping people who live in low very standards of living to start climbing up the ladder.
Further, evil is not necessary--that is silly.
hellevonequities 1 year ago
People that don't understand economics, don't understand reality and the problem of scarcity hurt people.
mexaguil 1 year ago
Government can only provide temporary jobs for hard working Americans giving them false hope of a future because of the open market and don't expect them to do something about it any time soon. My opinion is this" If they do what they need to do to fix it right they are afraid of causing a strain with China and other Nations leaving Americans with out a solid future. The very foundation that made America great was it's industries that both parties have wasted away
bubba007ss 1 year ago
Lovin' Johann Norberg. Couldn't have said it better.
polko59 1 year ago
@polko59. Great! But have you ever thought of what would happen in the USA should the Government remove all regulations it imposes on companies so they(companies), decide whether or not to pay a living wage? I mean a scenario where all companies freely decide whether or not to operate and treat their workers wal-marts' like or worse? Cause that's what "Free Trade'' really is.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
Wages are not determined by regulation. If they were, we would all be making minimum wage. Also, no one makes you work for a low wage. There is a point where people won't take a job for a low wage.
xp19375 1 year ago
@xp19375 My point is: Why have regulation/minimum wage laws @ first place, if truly they're unnecessary? Alright! Remove all those regulations and be as free-market as Haiti or Indonesia and the likes!
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound Last time I checked I didn't see that Haiti and Indonedia have free economies. Without any regulation we would get wages according to our productivity. And even the lowest wages would still be high. If productivity increase and entrepreneurs produce lot of food, houses, TV screen etc., then even the poorer can afford it because it became really cheap.
MrKiromunist 1 year ago
@MrKiromunist I didn't say that the two countries are 'free economies'. I said ''free-market'' paradise given the fact that they allow sweat shops and companies like Union Carbide, Chevron, Exon Mobil to thrive and maximise profit without regulating them. The fact that you have what Milton Friedman called ''Government's inefficient controls in the form of regulations'' in terms of strict labour laws such as child labor, higher taxes on corporations as well as stern environmental laws, you're ...
issoozmyw 1 year ago
@MrKiromunist ... aren't a free-market. In theory perhaps but not in practice.
issoozmyw 1 year ago
@issoozmyw yeah, a free market were the UN can get everything they want and the poor can only get a non-flat screen tv. Commissions are corruption.
burns83 11 months ago
@malairlostandfound I would say if minimum wage raises wealth and/or standard of living, then why not pay 100$ an hour, or 1,000$? Logically it's nonsense. This is str8 out of the Broken Window Fallacy of Bastiat...comparing the "seen" and not considering the "unseen". Someone sees the wage of a poorer worker go up when min wage is incepted. They don't see the lost economic momentum, slow of growth and hiring, etc.
ProIndividual 1 year ago 2
johann's right, but forget to mention how USD is sucking wealth out of third world, americans were buying stuff for pure atrament painted paper..thats gonna end and it will not be sweat
peterrehak1 1 year ago
I was born in Canada and I have worked since I was 5 years old. Children have the right to work as long as it doesn't get in the way of their government indoctrination... er, schooling. My first job was cleaning an office in a petrochemical plant. I still remember it with fondness. By the time I entered high school I had saved up enough to go to a private school. Now I am a successful entrepreneur who also runs a non-profit to help local children gain practical work experience.
XCritonX 1 year ago
This actually supplies a higher quality of life for these people. The funny thing is when people think a global government will supply these people with better quality of life.
opacid 1 year ago
Whenever I see the argument that [ ] corporation is exploitative because they only offer people [ ] $/hr I laugh so hard that it hurts.
If you think [ ] $/hr is exploitative then why don't you go there and open your own factory and pay them higher? The truth is you are just a loser and you know nothing about the industry or the world.
DDG993 1 year ago 3
@DDG993 @polko59. Great! But have you ever thought of what would happen in the USA should the Government remove all regulations it imposes on companies so they(companies), decide whether or not to pay a living wage? I mean a scenario where all companies freely decide whether or not to operate and treat their workers wal-marts' like or worse? Cause that's what "Free Trade'' really is.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound
What would happen is that companies would hire people based on how much competing companies would hire them for. Wages would go down so companies could spend more on themselves, increasing efficiency and lowering prices. So in reality living wages would go down, so whatever "evil company" price they might charge would be negated anyways by the lower cost of living that comes with economic freedom and efficiency.
Smokecrackcain 1 year ago
@Smokecrackcain I meant what would the reaction of Americans be should Government decide to abandon the enforcement of minimum wage law like in Haiti or Bangladeshi?
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound If the minimum wage was abolished in america, unemployment would decrease so overall there would be more jobs available so that people who maybe dont have the skill to work at at payrate of minimum wage could at least find employment. overall some people would be made better of without hurting anyone else.
koda5ive 1 year ago
@koda5ive You seem to say that America will become more prosperous. But still, would Americans vote for and live under such de-regulation?
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound Everyone has their own opinion and ideas. a politician would most likely not endorse abolishing the minimum wage because I agree with you that most Americans would not vote for this. But economically speaking, what i said was true.
koda5ive 1 year ago
@koda5ive what you said was probably true in theory. But reality no Western country would dare embrace free trade with open arms. Not now. Not Ever. Reason why I believe that Countries like Indonesia, Haiti, Bangladesh...etc are the best example of free market as they don't have minimum wage laws, regulation on foreign companies and they even have 'free trade' zones in which they(foreign companies) are immune from any law within those countries. These countries are perfect free market models.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound Hong Kong does not I have a minimum wage and has overall more free market compared to mainland China which is more restrictive. Someone in HK is way better off than in mainland China. as for "free trade zones" well in mainland china they have several "special economic zones" with deregulations on the market, these are the most prosperous cities of all. Shenzhen is one of these cities and it has the highest income in China, it is one of the fastest growing cities in the world.
koda5ive 1 year ago
@koda5ive @koda5ive Hong kong's economic foundation's been largely layed through its 157years alliance with the British Empire which went round the world amassing wealth through oppression and exploitation.I don't think it's fair to compare it with mainland China when clearly the later in just thirty years is today an economic power house to be reckoned with. China's Achieved all its economic success on its own, through strong Governmental guidance and regulations rather than free open market.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound Hong Kong was able to grow because of the British policies which stayed out of economics and let the market operate by itself. The Chinese are hard working and with a free market they had an incentive to be more productive. People from mainland have moved there so they can operate their busines without government limitations. Hong Kong has had more time to for their economy to grow while mainland started to open up in 1978, and economic growth increased.
koda5ive 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound Please look at a ranking of countries economic freedom and also compare that to average income/ standard of living. Notice that Haiti is ranked 141 out of 179, so regardless of their wage laws as a whole it does not compare to US which is ranked # 8 on this list. I beleive that the original "American way" did not intend for government to make laws which restrict peoples' freedoms but that seems to be the trend.
koda5ive 1 year ago
@koda5ive I think Johann Norberg said it better: the west enjoys fair labour laws today because they once had to live/put up with free trade laws in the past. Therefore today as a result of their previous sacrifices, westerners today have the better life and economic standard than anyone else in the world. So, the champions of free trade out there should go out and tell the truth just like Johann Norberg has: free trade is good only for people of the third world and Not the west!
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound That's not what he said - we don't "enjoy" fair labor laws. We enjoy better standards of living, with or without labor laws, which are well-intended but useless when we have the economic opportunities and true freedom (and if need be, a social network to help us get started). Take child labor: you could re-legalize child labor in any wealthy nation and child exploitation would not increase. Why not? Because parents don't need the cash and usually aren't heartless idiots.
ConscientiousMind 1 year ago
@ConscientiousMind 'Heartless idiots'' of the third world are the ones letting their children get exploited by western companies.Absolutely! But if your better standard of living is trully ''useless'' then why have labor laws strongly enforced at first place? Saying that ''we don't enjoy fair labour laws'' is utter nonsense! You have loads of unions and all forms Governmental laws to protect yourselves against rapacious corporatists.'Free' trade is 'good' for third world citizens, not YOU.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound Thanks for misunderstanding for the umpteenth time.
Labor laws become useless when people understand that they are free agents with the ability to choose better jobs. If a company exploits you, DON'T WORK FOR THEM. Choose a better job! Businesses need workers and they'll need to compete for them, so there's no need for twisting their arms.
By the way, I'm NOT against unions as watchdog groups, advisors and such - that's all beneficial. I'm against them having gov't support.
ConscientiousMind 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound By heartless idiots I meant wealthy parents who don't need to send their children to work but do it anyway. That's in no way comparable to parents in third world countries whose circumstances force them to commit this unfortunate action.
ConscientiousMind 1 year ago
@ConscientiousMind by heartless idiots I meant African leaders who allow foreign Government/Corporations to dictate them economic rules to the detriment of Africa's environment and people.George Washington in his inauguration ceremony refused to wear imported clothes and he further more hired Alexander Hamilton as treasure secretary.Third world nations need to follow the examples George Washington if their to''... do free trade two hundred years from now'' according to president Ulysee Grant.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@malairlostandfound I have not studied these other countries but a quick search on wiki read: (The country is heavily corrupt. Every year much of the humanitarian aid is pocketed by officials. According to a World Bank report in 2006, "In Haiti, the process of business regulations is complex and customs procedures are lengthy.") and it goes on to talk about how it a very restrictive market, so even if they dont have minimum wage laws, their economy does not seem to be free market policies.
koda5ive 1 year ago
@koda5ive In 1994 the Californian assembly made it a crime for property owners to increase price of appartments in the city after the earthquake. Increasing the price of basic necessities more than 10% was equally criminal. Senator Dianne Feinstein claimed that inflating was '' not the American way''. Haiti is a perpetual earthquake. Given American companies insist on doing business there combined with its lack of minimum wage law is indication that it's just as frree market as Uncle Sam.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
@koda5ive unemployment would decrease but it there is a flip side... the income gap between rich and poor would skyrocket, the avereage standard of living would fall the middle class would collapse, and we would become mexico
MrAlways55 1 year ago
@MrAlways55 interesting, why do you think that the middle class would collapse? Does the middle class work at minimum wage jobs or do they earn a salary higher than that. If you are earning above minimum wage then if it were abolished, there would be no reason for your wage to change at because your work is valued higher than that level.
koda5ive 1 year ago
@koda5ive because labor laws such as minimum wages and collective bargaining are the foundations of the middle class... capitalism is best for overall economic growth but unchecked it tends to produce wide gaps between rich and poor... advanced labor laws help to mitigate that and encourage a middle ground
MrAlways55 1 year ago
@MrAlways55 - Minimum wage laws are not the foundation of the middle class, neither is collective bargaining. More laws reduce hiring, and hurt the middle class, and keep the poorest people poor. Laws against fraud, and employment by force are needed, but laws that restrict voluntary trade of labor are not helpful.
Gaps between the rich and poor in a free market will occur, but they aren't neccesarily bad. Everyone has more, the poor in the US live better than rich did 100 years ago.
mpc91 1 year ago
@MrAlways55 - Mexico has a minimum wage. Wage gaps are not neccesarily bad, but you assume they are because you assume a zero-sum view of economics.
If your income triples, and mine only doubles, the wage gap has increased, yet both of use are better off.
You want to drop the stardard of living, add restrictions to trade to create artificial equality. Nothing has ever reduced the standard of living better than the violent redistribution of wealth.
mpc91 1 year ago
I can never understand why protesters like these just don't ask the child directly. Just go up to a child and ask "do you like working here?" Ask their parents too "how's life?"
Damn the willfully ignorant.
durentu 1 year ago 8
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@durentu @polko59. Great! But have you ever thought of what would happen in the USA should the Government remove all regulations it imposes on companies so they(companies), decide whether or not to pay a living wage? I mean a scenario where all companies freely decide whether or not to operate and treat their workers wal-marts' like or worse? Cause that's what "Free Trade'' really is.
malairlostandfound 1 year ago
For more sweatshops :)
taubstumm 1 year ago
It shows why our jobs are exported. Not because of explotation but because of unions. Unions price workers out of the market. It is cheaper to build factories in China to produce goods. There is children working in horrible conditions that crave a job at the Nike factory. It's sad but true. wouldn't be surprised if chevy's aren't made eventually by children in Kenya.
SuperGuitarman69 1 year ago 3
Free trade doesnt cause oppression, it is people who are bad people who who force kids to work. Not only that it is a lack of proper rules and regulation that is the cause of this.
Everydayconservative 1 year ago
@Everydayconservative Kids aren't working because someone is forcing them to, the kids are working because REALITY is forcing them to. Regulation won't magically make those countries more productive. By allowing these countries to do what is most economically efficient (including letting their children work), they will get to a point where their kids won't HAVE to work anymore.
hahahaspam 1 year ago 95
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gskibum 1 year ago
@hahahaspam Kids shouldn't be working, they should be in school. Schools payed by their governments leader's commissions which are payed by the big companies that are there exploiting their land. But big companies take advantage of the poor and give such small commissions that they can only cover so little. These minerals cost so much more than is given to the countries. They call it bussines, but it has no merit. They're taking advantage. Education is the way, not overpowering and/or distructio
burns83 11 months ago
@burns83 Kids shouldn't be working, they should be in school. And that is precisely why there shouldn't be child labor laws.
hahahaspam 11 months ago
@burns83 - And by taking advantage, you are talking about giving them a job, and paying them two or three times what they were making previously.
These companies are investing in these countries and adding to their wealth, not detracting. People want the jobs that these companies provide.
If I offered you a job that doubled your salary, would you take it, or would you say I was exploiting you?
Education is the way. You should try it.
mpc91 11 months ago 2
@mpc91 The companies are giving these people 'a cow' cause people NEED the money. These people are investing their lives just in existing. If the conditions are better it doesnt mean that they are fair. The labor they do costs much more in other countries for a reason and it is unfair not only to the people we are talking about, but to people who live in the countries where these companies come from. Law is made and they evade it, then try to come out as country rescuers.
burns83 10 months ago
@burns83 - You ignore purchasing power completely. You ignore cost of living completely. Yes, labor costs more in other countries because everything costs more in other countries. A dollor in New York goes farther in Maine, and goes much farther in Africa or Latin America.
You keep using the word "fair", but you don't get that what you want is fair to no one but your philosophy. If these companies left tomorrow their employees would not be better off. Everyone benefits.
mpc91 10 months ago
@mpc91 Dont get that personal. Im not talking about fair to my philosophy. Companies should pay more to these third world country people, they may be able to employ cheaper but not as cheap as they do. In the case countries are able to employ people from other countries cause its better for their moneys worth , they should pay a sum much closer to the one they pay in their own countries, while still being able to spend less moeny. I know thats not happening, they are sucking as much as they can.
burns83 10 months ago
not everything is cheaper. Certain items are global commodities and it doesnt matter if you make $1 a day. An xbox game is $60 over there just like in America.
KripDrip 3 months ago
@KripDrip - I think the developing world will get along just fine without xbox games.
mpc91 3 months ago
@hahahaspam Yes! You get IT ! It is the marginal productivity per worker that is the most important indicator of wealth!! Policy must be focused on encouraging growth in per worker productivity!
MrHamncheez 7 months ago
@hahahaspam spread the message bro!
selymak 6 months ago
@hahahaspam They aren't forcing them to? Jesus Christ, take a look at the child slaves in Ivory Coast's chocolate fields, in India's mica industry, and harvesting shrimp in Thailand. And lets not even get started on what's going on in the Congo. Yes, slavery does exist, and it is forced labor. If you don't know a damn thing about international economics, then don't comment on it.
thirteendays13 6 months ago
@thirteendays13 The Congo? Really? You want to bring up an example where the alternative to working is to go fight in a militia? If you don't know a damn thing about geopolitics, then don't comment on it.
hahahaspam 6 months ago
@hahahaspam Joining a militia is not an option for everyone who lives there, but the colton, copper, and other valuable minerals and metals that are stolen by militias at gunpoint end up in our economy. Which by the way, very much fits the main point I was making that free trade does nothing to help the world's poor. Feel free to comment on the other examples, which of course also benefit us, while leaving others impoverished.
thirteendays13 6 months ago
@hahahaspam Your argument was that people aren't forcing people to take jobs, in the Congo, if a gun is pointed at you, you will pretty much jump into the mine. If you think it is an extreme case, then consider that Coca Cola uses gum arabic from the Sudan. There are countless products in our economy that support violent thugs and extreme oppression.
thirteendays13 6 months ago