WOW Peter Schubert!!!! our beloved master! how's he? love this fugue. I remember a Missa Super Surf'in USA wa had to do for assignment... (and I feel old suddently)
This would be a brilliant lesson if you included the chords,modulations and stopped talking all at once.i use a similar system to teach students who are intimidated be classical compositions.I hope you will add the chords and modulations.This could be world famous if you do.
The only part that confuses me is at the very beginning when the second voice starts. I perceive it as a bitonal phrase, that is, as two completely independent voices playing in different keys. Later, with more voices, I don't feel this indefiniteness of tonality. Was that an intention?
@JakubKubazMarian Thank you for your comments, and your question. Vagueness of tonality was my intention, but not bitonality. In brief, the challenges working with this subject was the 8th tied to dotted 4tr, as well as the the subtonic (flat-7) leading to the submediant (3rd) degree area for most of the theme; as the theme by virtue of this already weakens the sense of tonic, I decided to play it up by modulating to a minor by a sequence of 2 "deceptive" progressions (Dm, E->F, G->Am). con't...
@JakubKubazMarian con't... I needed some way of dealing with the G natural and the tendency of the answer theme to modulate to C major, versus my need to somehow hint at the key of A minor. The deceptive motions persist until the end of the exposition, with the cadence in A minor in page 5 (0:51).
@benk314 Thank you for your thorough explanation. It's exactly the sequence of the "deceptive" progressions that I am somehow not able to hear (that is, to feel). Perhaps due to the lack of some cadence establishing tonality, my impression is as if I were still in the key of of D minor and the other voice were "harmonically independent" of the first one. It's actually quite interesting, because it is probably the first time I have an impression of really perceiving two keys at once.
@benk314 When the third voice starts, it's no longer possible to deny the vertical (harmonic) relation between voices, and so I start to perceive the "cadential" structure rather than completely independent voices.
@JakubKubazMarian It's a little tricky to talk about analysis without a score to point to. I've isolated the 2nd entrance, simplified the counter-subject and added a bit of chords. (skitch.com/skitchskitch/fc3p7/sibelius-6) The a minor is not confirmed, though it is only referred to by the hint of a cadential progression; bar 9: a:iv V VI (instead of iv V i); bar 15, same thing: a:i iv V VI (instead of i iv V i). I'm really curious as to which tonalities you're hearing.
Honestly, I don't really understand what agger382 is talking about. I enjoy Bach's fugues and this is very far from Bach's style, but I must say that I really enjoyed this one too. The theme melody is slightly awkward, but I must say you work with this awkwardness really nice. I would say that the style contains 3 different qualities - the calming, almost spiritual effect of classical fugue, emotional development of Rachmaninoff, and modern dissonance of Shostakovich.
As a musician, I believe that you need to examine better the fugues of Bach in order to gain a more familiar sound in your fugues. But it is a respectfull modern work.
@agger382 Thanks for your comment. I'm not sure if I comprehend what you mean by a "familiar sound", and how this relates to examining the fugues of Bach. I don't recall it stated anywhere that the purpose in writing a fugue is to sound like Bach; then should we wag a finger at all those who fall to sound like the old master when writing one? "Shame on you, Shostakovich, for not writing fugues like Bach"?
@benk314 I think that you have misunderstood something. It is just that when someone wants to write a fugue, he/she shall examine many fugues in order to understand the form and the meaning. I do not care if you write fugues according to Schostakovich or not. It is only that you need much experience. For this experience, it is better to trust a very experienced teacher. When J.S. Bach wrote so many fugues, we can understand that he had a wide experience about these forms.
While you gain more and more experience, you become better. This is why J.S. Bach's fugues will really help you to better understand what you are doing. It is all about composing, composing and more composing. It is about the experience I have wrote so many times. I hope you understand better now, that I have written this work of literature! :-)
@agger382 I appreciate that you are, I assume, trying to be helpful, but unfortunately, i find your comments presumptuous at best, and patronizing at worst. I would prefer to discuss specific criticisms, rather than debate my "need for more experience."
@benk314 I do not care at all about how you want to write music. I wrote some comments here as a professional musician. If you want you listen to me or you just ignore my opinion.
I've just read through all your four comments, and you haven't contributed a single valid... no scratch that, a single piece of criticism referring to ANYTHING concrete.
A "professional musician" is expected to be capable of more.
@twooffour What exactly would you expect from a professional musician, when you want some help about a composition? Do you want me to tell about the zero dynamics or about the zero articulation? There is no criticism in composing. Only advices. There is nothing wrong in composing. There is nothing wrong in the arts.
Articulation and dynamics don't count. Bach himself wrote none (I'm aware of), certainly not in his harpsichord works (hint: harpsichord playing has lots of intricate articulation and ornamenation, but no dynamics).
So obviously, I was referring to the NOTES. If you somehow find his composition lacking, and think he should study Bach more to get better, you must be referring to the NOTES, and if you wanna claim authority as a "professional", you should be able to articulate...
WOW Peter Schubert!!!! our beloved master! how's he? love this fugue. I remember a Missa Super Surf'in USA wa had to do for assignment... (and I feel old suddently)
contessa1750 1 month ago
"Fuga del Ups, I'ho fatto di nuovo" Sounds so much classier.
wetuadjlv 3 months ago 3
fine well done gut gemacht jsb leipzig
Mrababab121212 4 months ago
Please do more! This is excellent, excellent, excellent.
musoderelict 4 months ago
Comment removed
musoderelict 4 months ago
this really cool! Thanks for posting!
ericbelify 5 months ago
This would be a brilliant lesson if you included the chords,modulations and stopped talking all at once.i use a similar system to teach students who are intimidated be classical compositions.I hope you will add the chords and modulations.This could be world famous if you do.
composer7325 5 months ago
@composer7325 There is a draft of the analysis included in the video info. It's a bit messy....
benk314 5 months ago
Most important! You used a Tonal Answer! Woo-hoo!
Imagined1 6 months ago
Very nice development!
Wandelbart 6 months ago
@Wandelbart Danke sehr schön!
benk314 6 months ago
The only part that confuses me is at the very beginning when the second voice starts. I perceive it as a bitonal phrase, that is, as two completely independent voices playing in different keys. Later, with more voices, I don't feel this indefiniteness of tonality. Was that an intention?
JakubKubazMarian 6 months ago
@JakubKubazMarian Thank you for your comments, and your question. Vagueness of tonality was my intention, but not bitonality. In brief, the challenges working with this subject was the 8th tied to dotted 4tr, as well as the the subtonic (flat-7) leading to the submediant (3rd) degree area for most of the theme; as the theme by virtue of this already weakens the sense of tonic, I decided to play it up by modulating to a minor by a sequence of 2 "deceptive" progressions (Dm, E->F, G->Am). con't...
benk314 6 months ago
@benk314 And by submediant, I of course mean mediant. Oops!
benk314 6 months ago
@JakubKubazMarian con't... I needed some way of dealing with the G natural and the tendency of the answer theme to modulate to C major, versus my need to somehow hint at the key of A minor. The deceptive motions persist until the end of the exposition, with the cadence in A minor in page 5 (0:51).
benk314 6 months ago
@benk314 Thank you for your thorough explanation. It's exactly the sequence of the "deceptive" progressions that I am somehow not able to hear (that is, to feel). Perhaps due to the lack of some cadence establishing tonality, my impression is as if I were still in the key of of D minor and the other voice were "harmonically independent" of the first one. It's actually quite interesting, because it is probably the first time I have an impression of really perceiving two keys at once.
JakubKubazMarian 6 months ago
@benk314 When the third voice starts, it's no longer possible to deny the vertical (harmonic) relation between voices, and so I start to perceive the "cadential" structure rather than completely independent voices.
JakubKubazMarian 6 months ago
@JakubKubazMarian It's a little tricky to talk about analysis without a score to point to. I've isolated the 2nd entrance, simplified the counter-subject and added a bit of chords. (skitch.com/skitchskitch/fc3p7/sibelius-6) The a minor is not confirmed, though it is only referred to by the hint of a cadential progression; bar 9: a:iv V VI (instead of iv V i); bar 15, same thing: a:i iv V VI (instead of i iv V i). I'm really curious as to which tonalities you're hearing.
benk314 6 months ago
@benk314 Unfortunately, the URL doesn't seem to work (the website just writes "error").
JakubKubazMarian 6 months ago
@JakubKubazMarian I've added another pdf link to the description with analysis. Countersubjects have been simplified for clarity. Cheers,
benk314 6 months ago
Honestly, I don't really understand what agger382 is talking about. I enjoy Bach's fugues and this is very far from Bach's style, but I must say that I really enjoyed this one too. The theme melody is slightly awkward, but I must say you work with this awkwardness really nice. I would say that the style contains 3 different qualities - the calming, almost spiritual effect of classical fugue, emotional development of Rachmaninoff, and modern dissonance of Shostakovich.
JakubKubazMarian 6 months ago
As a musician, I believe that you need to examine better the fugues of Bach in order to gain a more familiar sound in your fugues. But it is a respectfull modern work.
agger382 7 months ago
@agger382 Thanks for your comment. I'm not sure if I comprehend what you mean by a "familiar sound", and how this relates to examining the fugues of Bach. I don't recall it stated anywhere that the purpose in writing a fugue is to sound like Bach; then should we wag a finger at all those who fall to sound like the old master when writing one? "Shame on you, Shostakovich, for not writing fugues like Bach"?
benk314 7 months ago
@benk314 I think that you have misunderstood something. It is just that when someone wants to write a fugue, he/she shall examine many fugues in order to understand the form and the meaning. I do not care if you write fugues according to Schostakovich or not. It is only that you need much experience. For this experience, it is better to trust a very experienced teacher. When J.S. Bach wrote so many fugues, we can understand that he had a wide experience about these forms.
agger382 7 months ago
@benk314 2ND PART OF MY COMMENT
While you gain more and more experience, you become better. This is why J.S. Bach's fugues will really help you to better understand what you are doing. It is all about composing, composing and more composing. It is about the experience I have wrote so many times. I hope you understand better now, that I have written this work of literature! :-)
agger382 7 months ago
@agger382 I appreciate that you are, I assume, trying to be helpful, but unfortunately, i find your comments presumptuous at best, and patronizing at worst. I would prefer to discuss specific criticisms, rather than debate my "need for more experience."
benk314 7 months ago
@benk314 I do not care at all about how you want to write music. I wrote some comments here as a professional musician. If you want you listen to me or you just ignore my opinion.
agger382 7 months ago
@agger382
I've just read through all your four comments, and you haven't contributed a single valid... no scratch that, a single piece of criticism referring to ANYTHING concrete.
A "professional musician" is expected to be capable of more.
twooffour 7 months ago
@twooffour What exactly would you expect from a professional musician, when you want some help about a composition? Do you want me to tell about the zero dynamics or about the zero articulation? There is no criticism in composing. Only advices. There is nothing wrong in composing. There is nothing wrong in the arts.
agger382 7 months ago
@agger382
Articulation and dynamics don't count. Bach himself wrote none (I'm aware of), certainly not in his harpsichord works (hint: harpsichord playing has lots of intricate articulation and ornamenation, but no dynamics).
So obviously, I was referring to the NOTES. If you somehow find his composition lacking, and think he should study Bach more to get better, you must be referring to the NOTES, and if you wanna claim authority as a "professional", you should be able to articulate...
twooffour 6 months ago
@agger382
... examples and reasoning - even though, in art, any "inaccuracy" or "sloppiness" can be perceived as appealing, or meant as a subversion.
But hey, don't mind me - I'm just a stopper-by, telling you that you should put up if you want to act up, to be taken seriously.
twooffour 6 months ago
Nice work. Do you have somewhere we can download your sheetmusic directly?
mikenbondi 8 months ago
@mikenbondi I've added links to the score in the info. Cheers.
benk314 8 months ago