"Gnostics were knowers of the spiritual landscape based on ..." WOW what an ignorant comment.
I highly recommend you read "The Heresy of Orthodoxy - how contemporary culture's fascination with diversity has reshaped our understanding of early christianity" by Michael J. Krueger and Andreas J. Konstenberger and get your history of Early Christianity challenged.
Thinking is good, saying hodge-podge is not, imho!
Gnostics were knowers of the spiritual landscape based on spiritual experience; this is why the church killed them all. Bad competition.. believers of course are what we have today. Believers have faith but by definition do not know. This is what Ch. people forget.
Saying that you know because of the bible as a source cannot be taken seriously.
Ch. today is a belief system based on faith. As far as the bread and wine being THE body and blood of Christ, more dogma.
@Revfiskj I'll have fun with it while you earn your living from the dogma based belief system, even though your bible strictly forbids earning money from teaching the concepts contained therein. I'm also not surprised you did not take on any of my "assertions" because you know they are true.
@rovingdesertfox Assert away my friend, for you can prove far less than I. 1 Cor. 9:14 But fair warning, this is my page, not yours. A fool is thought wise if he holds his tongue. Yet a wise man becomes a fool the moment he answers a fool according to his folly. My bad, fo' sho'.
Your arguments should lead you to The Church of Rome. Jesus didn't "This bread accompanies my body (in with and under)". He said "This is...". So it is either a metaphor and the Reformed are right or it is completely literal and you should be a Roman Catholic.
@saintoccasionally huh? umm...no. Is actually means is. Most kids can get that grammatical point. Meanwhile, it was this theology which led Luther *out* of Rome. However, it does lead me to rejoice that I believe what the early Church (not Rome) also believed. It is good to believe what the Christians taught be the first apostles believed.
@Revfiskj "Is" and "accompanies" mean two different things. Most kids could get that right too. The Lutheran teaching is not "is". It only claims to be. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.
@saintoccasionally I'm afraid you're quite wrong. The Lutheran teaching is that the bread and wine of the Supper *is* the body and blood of Christ. All other words are only for the purpose of denying false accusations (such as that we teach "transubstantiation," against which "in, with and under" is directed. "Hoc Est Corpus," is the heart and soul of it. Is is is.
Another excellent vid, Father Fisk. I especially enjoyed your of "the door" as this was used by a popoular yet orthodox emerging pastor (Fox Univ. educated) to teach the Reformed/Baptist theology of Communion being just a symbol and obedience to God's Word.
A hardcore calvinistic friend tried to reason w me about the words of Institution at the Last Supper, with logic ... that Jesus was there physically, and why would he speak about the bread and wine he was holding as being also Him.
@RevFisk ... How would you respond (besides saying that Reason is magisterial over God's Word) when Calvinists logically says that Jesus could not mean the Bread and Wine to be His Body when he was physically there in the room with the disciples breaking it, eating and drinking it, and granted being before His death and sacrifice on the Cross ?
Haha YouTube seems to randomly decide that certain videos aren't allowed on mobile. Every couple weeks there's ALWAYS a video that won't work on my iPod, even though I know the author never designated to disallow it.
@SporloMBSSB I think it might actually be because YouTube picked up on the Kenny Loggins song and monetized it with the iTunes/AmazonMP3 link and that doesn't come through on the mobile version of YouTube... yet.
I can't watch on my phone! Seriously! What's the world coming to when a man can't watch TV on his phone! Guess I'll get up and go to my old fashioned computational interfacing device.
@grovania VALID question, but as Rev Fisk said at the end ... this is not exhaustive or primer on Eucharistic theology.
I do realize that unlike the RCC, in the Lutheran and Eastern Orthodox churches, Catechism is not a Sacrament. In Denmark, the confessional priests in the state church try to educate the under 10 youth, thru Pre-Confirmation classes. I think, more churches should have Adult Confirmation classes also, because here as in the US, there is a lack of doctrinal and biblical ed.
@grovania , in my danish evangelical lutheran church (state church - folkekirke) that my family attends (along with over 200 confessional, conservative lutherans) there are some (pious) families who take their kids and the whole family to Confession before the service starts on Sunday morning. There are also parents who (rightfully and properly) give their child a piece of the Eucharistic Bread and allow the older kids to partake of the Wine. I plan on doing the same with our 8 month old son.
I wonder why i couldn't watch it on my phone...Great show as always. I wish I could get my reformed friends to listen to this as you wax more elquoently than I, lol.
"Gnostics were knowers of the spiritual landscape based on ..." WOW what an ignorant comment.
I highly recommend you read "The Heresy of Orthodoxy - how contemporary culture's fascination with diversity has reshaped our understanding of early christianity" by Michael J. Krueger and Andreas J. Konstenberger and get your history of Early Christianity challenged.
Thinking is good, saying hodge-podge is not, imho!
RomGabe 6 months ago
Gnostics were knowers of the spiritual landscape based on spiritual experience; this is why the church killed them all. Bad competition.. believers of course are what we have today. Believers have faith but by definition do not know. This is what Ch. people forget.
Saying that you know because of the bible as a source cannot be taken seriously.
Ch. today is a belief system based on faith. As far as the bread and wine being THE body and blood of Christ, more dogma.
rovingdesertfox 7 months ago
@rovingdesertfox Hmmm...some fine assertions. A bit dizzying, but certainly claiming to impart wisdom. Have fun with it!
Revfiskj 7 months ago
@Revfiskj I'll have fun with it while you earn your living from the dogma based belief system, even though your bible strictly forbids earning money from teaching the concepts contained therein. I'm also not surprised you did not take on any of my "assertions" because you know they are true.
rovingdesertfox 7 months ago
@rovingdesertfox Assert away my friend, for you can prove far less than I. 1 Cor. 9:14 But fair warning, this is my page, not yours. A fool is thought wise if he holds his tongue. Yet a wise man becomes a fool the moment he answers a fool according to his folly. My bad, fo' sho'.
Revfiskj 7 months ago
Your arguments should lead you to The Church of Rome. Jesus didn't "This bread accompanies my body (in with and under)". He said "This is...". So it is either a metaphor and the Reformed are right or it is completely literal and you should be a Roman Catholic.
saintoccasionally 7 months ago
@saintoccasionally huh? umm...no. Is actually means is. Most kids can get that grammatical point. Meanwhile, it was this theology which led Luther *out* of Rome. However, it does lead me to rejoice that I believe what the early Church (not Rome) also believed. It is good to believe what the Christians taught be the first apostles believed.
Revfiskj 7 months ago
@Revfiskj "Is" and "accompanies" mean two different things. Most kids could get that right too. The Lutheran teaching is not "is". It only claims to be. You talk out of both sides of your mouth.
saintoccasionally 7 months ago
@saintoccasionally I'm afraid you're quite wrong. The Lutheran teaching is that the bread and wine of the Supper *is* the body and blood of Christ. All other words are only for the purpose of denying false accusations (such as that we teach "transubstantiation," against which "in, with and under" is directed. "Hoc Est Corpus," is the heart and soul of it. Is is is.
Revfiskj 7 months ago
@Revfiskj I don't mean that you personally talk out of both sides. I refer to Lutheran theology.
saintoccasionally 7 months ago
Another weakness of Carson's argument is that the Gospels DO have Aramaic at times and it interprets it...none here.
Paleolutheran 7 months ago
Excellent. I have a whole bunch of Reformed friends...I need to remember this!
wallowamater 7 months ago
The name of the book is "Exegetical fallacies" by Carsson.
lutherchemnitz 7 months ago 2
Another excellent vid, Father Fisk. I especially enjoyed your of "the door" as this was used by a popoular yet orthodox emerging pastor (Fox Univ. educated) to teach the Reformed/Baptist theology of Communion being just a symbol and obedience to God's Word.
A hardcore calvinistic friend tried to reason w me about the words of Institution at the Last Supper, with logic ... that Jesus was there physically, and why would he speak about the bread and wine he was holding as being also Him.
RomGabe 7 months ago
@RevFisk ... How would you respond (besides saying that Reason is magisterial over God's Word) when Calvinists logically says that Jesus could not mean the Bread and Wine to be His Body when he was physically there in the room with the disciples breaking it, eating and drinking it, and granted being before His death and sacrifice on the Cross ?
RomGabe 7 months ago
"Jesus is gust speaking in metaphors"
"gust"? :)
t1pnr1ng 7 months ago
okay, i think my head just exploded.... wow.
loofrin 7 months ago
Haha YouTube seems to randomly decide that certain videos aren't allowed on mobile. Every couple weeks there's ALWAYS a video that won't work on my iPod, even though I know the author never designated to disallow it.
SporloMBSSB 7 months ago
@SporloMBSSB I think it might actually be because YouTube picked up on the Kenny Loggins song and monetized it with the iTunes/AmazonMP3 link and that doesn't come through on the mobile version of YouTube... yet.
pfh3 7 months ago
I can't watch on my phone! Seriously! What's the world coming to when a man can't watch TV on his phone! Guess I'll get up and go to my old fashioned computational interfacing device.
pfh3 7 months ago
Great point about Chemnitz's "The Lord's Supper". It sealed the issue for this former Reformed guy. Overjoyed to be in the LCC.
MarkVeenman730314 7 months ago 2
It is justification. It is the center of our worship. To us it is EVERYthing. .....But since 1200AD or so we don't let our kids partake. ???
grovania 7 months ago
@grovania VALID question, but as Rev Fisk said at the end ... this is not exhaustive or primer on Eucharistic theology.
I do realize that unlike the RCC, in the Lutheran and Eastern Orthodox churches, Catechism is not a Sacrament. In Denmark, the confessional priests in the state church try to educate the under 10 youth, thru Pre-Confirmation classes. I think, more churches should have Adult Confirmation classes also, because here as in the US, there is a lack of doctrinal and biblical ed.
RomGabe 7 months ago
@grovania , in my danish evangelical lutheran church (state church - folkekirke) that my family attends (along with over 200 confessional, conservative lutherans) there are some (pious) families who take their kids and the whole family to Confession before the service starts on Sunday morning. There are also parents who (rightfully and properly) give their child a piece of the Eucharistic Bread and allow the older kids to partake of the Wine. I plan on doing the same with our 8 month old son.
RomGabe 7 months ago
I wonder why i couldn't watch it on my phone...Great show as always. I wish I could get my reformed friends to listen to this as you wax more elquoently than I, lol.
warriorwithhonor 7 months ago
thanks pastor fisk
irondawson 7 months ago