Herodotos who visited Alexander I. of Macedonia (5th century) said both Macedonian kings and population were Greeks and particularly of Dorian stock. (Ηρόδοτος, Ιστορίες, 5,17–22; 8,139
Alexander the Great was Hellene, he spread hellenism in the known world. Makedonians were called barbarians because of the different life style. As I know they lived half-nomad life before the Makedonian Kingdom. Btw. Is there any news about his tomb?
@socratis904 you are a very foolish man for one who speaks of plato and whatnot, it matters little who wrote down what happened in history its the facts that matter. Alexander was a makedonian king not greek. get over it. Greece was never that great, the illyrians frequently raided you, they defeated a combined army of makedonians and spartans, i come from a race of warriors not from a race of talkers. Ive had enough of your ignorance i cant tolerate your idiocy any more.
@UPC95 As a barbarian that you are i forgive you, its not your fault that you were born barbarian and you live as a barbarian, you are the way you were born
@socratis904 typical greek, you cannot justify HISTORY with MYTHS of pagan gods, you speak in endless circles of stubborn idiocy, you say you have read. Your replies do not reflect it, i say that you are the one full of propoganda, just like all greeks. Epirus right now is divided between albania and greece. Alexander had illyrian blood too. I need not speak with identity i speak with my logic, identity only adds false weight to words, words should stand alone. theres some philosophy for you.
@UPC95 yes Epirus is divided and many Greeks live there, You know that! And if you name history myths and pagan storys then why do nt you name what history is for you? show me who wrote the history of Alexander the great, any Albanian? i dont think so,,,,,
@socratis904 epiros was a semi illyrian semi greek power. which is why they called alexanders mother a barbarian because of the illrian in her. i live in london not albania i dont know propoganda i read from books, the history channel made a show about alexander and they confirmed the fact alexander was part illyrian/albanian. and i hardly think YOU can criticise my english.
@UPC95 As i see propaganda works good there, you see dear man, Olympiada, was straight from the family of king Hellene, that had as brother king Graeko, that they both had another brother Amphiction, and a little sister named Thyia, which had two sons Magnita and Macedon, excuse me for not understanding your English, but i still hope that you will understand my history,the Illyrians had nothing to do with the Mollosians,you cant question those books
@UPC95 and if you want to write again, i suggest you to write with statments, if you can find some, because in this video we present history with an identity, and you speak here with no identity, you say theories, maybe YOU speak good englsih, and i dont, but surelly YOU have no logic something that is Greek and you ll have to be educated by Plato and other philosophers so to gain some!
well what you need to take into account is that modern day albania was epirus which was a semi greek/illyrian culture with heavy greek influence. this is where alexanders mother was from, i dont claim that that alexander was 100% because i would be as far fetched as everyone else making things up, and illyria was an enemy of greece, we sacked you many a time, we almost destroyed macedon untill philip II defeated us, but we were not an enemy to alexander, he used illyrian soldiers. thumps up plz
@UPC95 except from the logical fact that your commen has no realation with this video, maybe its your English, i ll have to inform you, that Alexander had used Thracians as Paeonians too except Illirians in His campaing in Asia,(as many from the rest of Greece) and that He had war with the Illirians where He got wounded too. as for that story that Epiros is Albanian According to Alexander was not, read His history from the sources and not the propaganda, other thing is Illyria other is Epiros
@them0tive Winning the right to use a name doesn't make you Macedonian monkeyboy and it was just for the use of a name. O.J. Simpson won a court decision too that doesn't mean nothing. If I were you ide stop trolling these posts and stop jerking off and get yourself some pussy. Fyrom women give great head including your mommy and sister...oh but you probably know that already
@them0tive No my mistake that post was actually directed toawards you. I do have other more important things to do as I hold down a real job not just sit home while mommy still works like you do. And unlike you I do make mistakes because I'm human, the highest form of human there is macedonian Greek(unlike you)
@them0tive If you had any brain you would instead spend your time trying to validate fyrom in the real world on a larger venue like the U.N. but you don't . Maybe you're smarter than I thought because you know anywhere you go it would be a losing argument. That's why you troll YouTube YOUVREALLY HAVE NO OTHER PLATFORM. You know no one will even pay any mind to you. Without YouTube, you load the gun and shoot yourself guaranteed you fukin simpleton
We won the World Court decision (Macedonia vs Greece) regarding the use of our name on 5th December - that high enough for you?
My persona, or name that is, was a direct response to you little gayreek national right wing white greece and only white greece ethos, kill all the rest in a genocidal rampage attitude poofters.
@lordgreek2013 I enjoy toying with little pee-ons like you idiot shits and giggles. I dont really see how you put me in my seat but I'll play along. You're such a small person inside. And you so know it. That's why your on YouTube trolling uploads and trying to validate yourself by posting complete nonsense. Makes you feel good about yourself little small self because my friend these are the limitations of your life. That's not my fault that's yours.
@them0tive no you ignorant little dirtbag my initial post that was private was me responding to you posting to me in private. Lol Your brain caters to your ego so I'll patronize uou and day it was cuz I'm afraid of you REALLY AFRAID LOL
I have gold coins with Alexanders face and name on them that have ancient Greek writing. You pathetic little monkeys lololollllol if I had no culture I would try to steal greeces too
Your initial post to me was in private - when i put you in your seat you took it here in public with expletives. Did you learn to keep your cool from that mythical fgt hercules? Or was that god stolen / likened / adapte from --- the more superior race at the time -- Egypt God Horus? Shrug, we may never know! ;-)
@them0tive you must stop having sex with animals, find a woman. stop watching too much porno on internet, start drinking good clean water and do nt take more drugs :). ante gamisou tora malaka, understand?
Haha grasping at straws when you have nothing; literally nothing - in the head, in the wallet, in life. I enjoy conversing with you right wing gayreek nationilsts.
@greekabout you dumb fuck use your brain today's modern turkey was Greece back then so he was Greek. Don't try playing reverse psychology and don't try playing mind games you ignorant fuck. You have the IQ of my right nut
Using your modern greek DNA origins as a reference to your rebuttal? LMFAO stop chasing your tail. Pretty much on par with the confused battle of gaugamela - where greeks fought greeks.
@them0tive you mean that the geographic territory tha tyou live was not part of the Ottoma empire? former turikish repabliq of paeonia with dardania and bulgaria and serbia a? i am really asking what do you have wit hthe Serbs? they send away the turks from the ancient Paeonia a? now go and place your finger at your nose , you look so pretty like this
@them0tive listen I don't even hate you or dislike you. I actually feel bad for you, you inferior simple minded fuck. Think about it, I have more culture I'm my left nut than you I make more money than you and your "wana be" Macedonian family make in a whole year I make in a month. And I get more pussy in 1 weekend than you have gotten in your whole life. It's no wonder why women from bitoula line up to swing off my balls like Tarzan. I have 3!on Facebook right now
@them0tive Why do I fancy?? Loololol you must be one of those fagy brits. You must be annoyed because every time you come to NYC you get verbally abused by everybody and then when you go to Greece with your gf in the summer me and my friends line up so your gf can give blowjobs. Lolllllolol IDE be pissed off too but don't blame me she has good taste PLUS she does good blojobs re papara eh papara.
@them0tive .it did nt said in Europe but in Europe zone, now let me ask you something asa representeter of your country, how a nation can be named upon you with this responce of yours in a video presentation abouit the issue of the nationality of Alexander ? id say idiot! you are the most idiot nation in the galaxy
@them0tive this does nt make you Macedonianm neither states that Alexander of Macedon was not Greek. If you have to state something relative about this video presentation do it, otherwise go fuck your self properlly as a barbarian that you are, According to Plutarch Alexander changed the old Greek saying " everybody that is not Greek is a barbarian" to "everyboby that has envy and is bad is a barbarian, and everybody that has goodness and virtue is Greek. And here is His history. in those books
Greece is faking history, read about our Greece "historian" Herodotus, actualy born in Turky! of all places so..... he lied about history, made it up (well documented) and was born in today's Turky... so was he greek or Turkish? alexander the great was born in todays Greece but then it was Macedonia... the rest of us Greek's think about that for a second and then ask yourself who is faking what...
@pselus1 with the brain that you have you could nt writte anything better than what you allready wrote little sweet barbarian...you seem to be little smarter than a cow... just try to think if your comment is relative to the video presentation :)
@them0tive only a barbarian could write a comment like yours on a video presentation that presents history of Alexander the third of Macedon! and this is not ironic, unfortunatelly !
A gayreek presenting myths is not history - oh wait, it was considered as history for a while though wasnt it? Lots of myths get debunked dont they hellass?
From my understanding, ancient greeks refered to Macedonians as the barbarians, in the sense that they were not greek. I take what you called me as a compliment. Even though your sub-saharn DNA does not make you a descendant of ancient greeks, though. :)
@them0tive the ancient Greeks wew refering to the Macedonians as barbarians? and how do you know that my little sweet barbarian? have nt you read the history of Alexander the great by the ancient Greek historians?i suppose that you have nt, i am sure that those books the only real historical books about Alexander does nt exist in your pathetic country, and remember well this,even in i am sub saharian or not you will never became Macedonian.NEVER next time that you ll speak about history, name it
@them0tive yup and after portugal should change their name and then spain, then italy, then ireland..and basically half the eurozone!! it`s not only greece you fucker!! Go fuck some kangaroos in australia ;)
I've taken my equal share in payment back from their women anyway. If I were to buy a prostitute every day for the next 5 years i still it would cost me a fortune. I've taken 5 years worth of blowjobs from their women In the past '10 years. Their women alone have gulped down enough of my cum to pay for renting the name Macedonia from us. And I'm not the only 1 so when you look at it from that point of view its a differernt ball game. The way I see it, they have another 1-2 yrs of lease of the n
Socrates? When you come across a starving homeless child on the street don't you give him a dollar to go eat? We Greeks have enough culture to go Around the earth 20 times. Let the skopians have some too much in the same way you give the starving child money. We have enough no need to argue. Besides, we gain extra noteriety through them for free, not that we need it. HERE skopians, take a dollar and go get a bite to eat.
I'm into fucking women from bitoula and skopia on their back door. They love it more than I do(seriously). I also forbid them from speaking Slavic in my presence. Im originally from a small town im north greece called Amideo. Do you dumb skopians even know who amidas was? Free poutso sfaliares to the 1st 3 skopian ladies that can answer me that(really). Ty
Why do you fancy the backdoor so far abroad when you could simply go to gay mykonos in YOUR country and be proclaimed the king of that village. Or the village idiot - shrug.
Macedonia was a state of ancient Greece, nowadays remains one of Greece’s regions and populated from Greek peoples; the last few years after the break-up of Yugoslavia a new country popped and tries to get a name that connect them with ancient roots.
Anyway, don't mix sugar and salt, the new Macedonia is a Slavic state that has nothing to do with ancient Macedonia, any more than New Guinea in Ocean Pacific related to Guinea in Africa.
pff.. wtf there are proofs that he was from China there is an alexandrian city in china which is 6000 years old He grew up in China but was from America His parents couldnt find a job in america and so they went as commercial immigrants in China In the age of 12 years he and his family went to Turkey,Ankara 4 years later he went to Greece in Macedonia He had to kill Heracles to become the king He did it using a F-16 He did an "head-shot" on the knee and became king! any questions?
ok to make it clear...Macedonia is Eskimoo country...Thrace is Chinese...Epirus is Indian...Peloponessos is Australian...Thessaly is Brazilian...Crete is Argentinian...Cyprus is New Zeland...And by that we conclude that there isnt a Greece or Hellas...its a figment of the imagination of the Greek people who stole those from the real owners...to get serious now...tAKE this and SHUT THE FUCK UP /watch?v=uBDJJAJ94Gk
the Kingdom of Μακεδονία , Provincia Macedoniae (Επαρχία Μακεδονίας),Dioecesis Macedoniae (Διοίκησις Μακεδονίας), Theme of Macedonia (θέμα Μακεδονίας) the Modern Macedonia (region), and the modern Μακεδονία in Greece and FYR Republika Makedonija (Република Македонија), are 7 completely different things.
End of.
Same name does not equate a right to take the history associated with that name.
Americans in the state of Georgia do not claim Sakartvelo's history just because they are the same name
@thegreathistorian7 South Slavs settled in the region of Pella 1400 years before; they was dominant there, until the Balkan wars of 1913 when the Greek state, instead of differentiating them from the Bulgarians and the Serbs, began to haunt them. They are the Balkan natives who were in 6 th century began to spread from the mountains into the plains, and the Bulgarians are a mixture of Asians and Slavs.
@dimges If Slav Macedonians was not manipulated by the Bulgarians and Serbs, maybe they could then (1913) establish an autonomous out of Serbia and Yugoslavia. Ridiculous to claim that it is now a threat and ambition, and therefore negate the Slav Macedonian identity and Macedonian language .
@dimges In that case, the Greek government to recognize that the 1913-1948 expelled the Bulgarians from northern Greece, and they would in an eventual new war Bulgaria will be got the same ambitions as well in WW and WW2.
@thegreathistorian7 Wrong; Macedonian (Slavic) language is in use much earlier, I have a Greek contract of sale where the seller (my great-grandfather) does not know the Greek language and used a court interpreter, the language is emphasized by the term, however, is not Bulgarian; also Abecedarium who printed the Greek government isn't for the Bulgarian language. There are plenty of literary and dramatic works published in Croatia, much before 1940.
@dimges how much earlier? Not much I reckon and certainly no where near anything to do with Ancient Macedon.
On top of that this "language" alphabet is STILL Bulgarian with around 4 Serb letters. Call it what you want, but you will never find any evidence linking you with the Kingdom of Macedon, which the area of has been continually inhabited by the Greek Macedonians, who are the original Inhabitants of the Kingdom, (like Athens has by Greek Athenians) since antiquity.
@thegreathistorian7 wrong; the first (Slavic) Macedonian latinic primer (alphabet) was printed in Athen, 1925, and in Prilep - Bitola - Florina speech. see ... scribd.com/doc/46105665/ABECEDAR-1925 .. As the creator of the modern Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is considered Krste Misirkov, born in Pella 1874th. Alphabet is very similar to Serbian, but the different pronunciation and accents. Bulgarian alphabet is with bigger difference.
@dimges exactly, an invented language, in the 19th/ 20th Century! hahahaha!! 1) А Б В Г Д Ѓ Е Ж З Ѕ И Ј К Л Љ М Н Њ О П Р С Т Ќ У Ф Х Ц Ч Џ Ш 2) А Б В Г Д Ђ Е Ж З И Ј К Л Љ М Н Њ О П Р С Т Ћ У Ф Х Ц Ч Џ Ш 3) А Б В Г Д Е Ж З И Й К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Щ Ъ Ь Ю Я 1) "Macedonian" 2)Bulgarian 3) Serbian Ancient Macedonian: Α Ά Β Γ Δ Ε Έ Ζ Η Ή Θ Ι Ί Κ Λ Μ Ν ΞΟ Ό Π Ρ Ῥ Σ Τ Υ Ύ ΦΧ Ψ Ω Ώ Modern Greek: Ά Β Γ Δ Ε Έ Ζ Η Ή ΘΙ Ί Κ Λ Μ Ν Ξ Ο Ό Π Ρ Σ Τ Υ Ύ Φ Χ Ψ Ω Ώ umadbro?
@dimges I cant seem to make the comment line break, so copy and paste it and separate it out, as you will see. "Macedonian" and Serbian and Bulgarian are very similar and "Macedonian" is blatantly a transitional Dialect between the two.
As for the Greek and the ancient Macedonians well.... nothing more needs to be said.
not surprising since the real Macedonians have lived in the real Macedonia in Greece for 4000 years.
@thegreathistorian7 Tito and Russia agreed at Yalta that Tito gets a part of Histria, but the northern Greek region remain still in Greece; so in the sense that Stalin called in SSSR Party Secretary of the Communist Party of Greece. Tito had allowed 1948 the British tanks to enter in Yugoslavia, near Bitola, and attack behind the back the Greek and Slavic Macedonian Communists, in the mountain near Florina
@thegreathistorian7 the South Slavs settled the region of Macedonia 5-7 centuries after the Gothic war and were dominant in the heart of of Macedonia until 1913/25. If the ancient Macedonians disappeared before the Slavs arrival , would have been lost the geographical name of Macedonia, and would not have existed Macedonian DNK in the local population .
@dimges Certainly, the culture and religion are another matter, but the fact is that today's Greece is Orthodox , in Greece can't find ancient names ( who are not Orthodox names). interestingly, in the region of Ohrid can find names and surnames with ancient originating , eg Nestor, Nestorov. Isn't logical that the Greeks expelled from Turkey and settled in the region of Macedonia 1913, can be the Macedonians , because Alexander was speaking Greek
@dimges Dosnt not mean Slavs have anything to do with MACEDON though.
Greeks have lived in Macedon since its formation and continued to do so through and past the Slavic invasions and still do today as they are the original and current inhabitants of the area that was MACEDON (not nessacery the various region(s) of Macedonia- different thing?)
They are the Macedonians.
You are Bulgarians who were Brainwashed by tito.
You don't even live in the area where Macedon was.
@thegreathistorian7 read - In the Shadow of Olympus | The Emergence of Macedon and Eugene Borza
Who Were (and Are) the Macedonians? .. 2. My ancestors are from the heart of Macedonia ( Today greece province Macedonia), regardless of what they have Slavic names, they have genes of ancient Macedonians, unlike christians immigrants ( 1913-1922), magjiras from Turkey or immigrants from southern Greece.
simply, after the dictatorship of General Metaxa starts the expulsion of indigenous peoples , with Slavic names, but different than Serb and Bulgarians
@dimges ive read it, but stop quoting Eugene Borza like all the others, its really embarrassing for you, next thing you will do is misquote Demosthenes or something, ive heard it all before.
DNA is not a way to prove nationality, you only use it because you cannot find actual archaeological or physical evidence link you as a Slav to ancient Greeks in Macedonia, Its a total fallacy, under your pretext, every one who lives in european country's and Is not white cannot be part of those nations.
@thegreathistorian7 theme of this video clip was Alexander the Great nationality ..one historian has recently released a book based on ancient authors which has details of which clearly shows that the Macedonians were not Greeks .. and the Macedonians were not native, who moved into the area and gave it the name Macedonia; after collapse of the Roman province, name Macedonia is forgotten until the end of the 19th century
@thegreathistorian7 /StojancePanov/ancient-macedonians-were-not-greeks-aleksandar-donski ... no matter how authoritative the author, here is some interesting details
2. ..fact is that many historians of ex-yu countries today deny the theory of immigration of the Slavs in the Balkans, and they believe that ex-yu peoples are descended from local, Balkan's tribe Veneti (Gaul), protoslavs
@dimges Slavs are Balkan natives? The Slavs came from the steppes in the 6th century AD which is after the Kingdom of Μακεδονία and some later roman Regions, no Slav has any right to claim the identity and history of Macedon. Especially not "ethnic macedonains" who only manifested in history in the 20th century, particularly as they are Blatantly Bulgars.
His Ethnicity (along with all ancient Macedonians) was Greek and his State was Macedon, both of which have nothing to do with Bulgar-Slavs In Skopje, not in History, Archaeology, or even Location.
Calling a Potato and apple does not make it taste like an apple.
combined with some racist remarks against Ethiopia, and claims that only the sun or the moon is older than the “Macedonians” , all wrapped up with some Drowning pool song or 009 soundsystem with some pictures made on Microsoft paint or some kind of wacky lion chariot combined with some copy and pasted Greek artifacts with some statements like "macedonia is love", "macedonia pride" and other things of no actual substance or meaning.
Its a total fallacy, under your pretext, every one who lives in european country's and Is not white cannot be part of those nations, the genetic arrgument is racist and does not hold in debate at all. ) made by companies that have never has their works published in peer- reviewed journals, or out of context works from ATHENIAN orators producing Anti-Macedon views during the time of the Kingdom of Μακεδονία occupation of Athens
They can only have some link with the modern Macedonia (region) and the republic itself (Република Македонија) The whole concept of the Bulgar-Slav people of FYROM having anything to do with the other 5 example’s I listed only seems to exist on poorly made youtube video’s slideshow of pseudo-genetics arguments (not that genetics or DNA is an argument or indeed has been used for territorial ambitions in history ever, under that racist masquerade is every Black man in Britain not British?
You dont really understand the history of the region, not can you seem to comprehend the difference betweem Macedon and the various historical regions of Macedonia. Just because they have the same name does not mean it is the same thing. Just because you call yourselves macedonia does not mean Alexander magically spoke slavic and rode a lion chariot haha.
There is no actual evidence that supports your claims or any argument that has not already been refuted, all you have is blind faith, its almost like a religion, except less credible.
In 20 years FYROM has been unable to provide a single piece of archaeological or historical evidence to prove the link between the Bulgar-Slavs of FYROM (or indeed ANY Slavs) and the ancient Macedonians. Even If you find greek artifacts in the very southern most regions we find Roman stuff all the time in GB it dosnt make us Roman, no more that Afghan's Hellenic when they find busts of Alexander or temples to Zeus.
Obviously you are confused, the Kingdom of Μακεδονία , Provincia Macedoniae (Επαρχία Μακεδονίας),Dioecesis Macedoniae (Διοίκησις Μακεδονίας), Theme of Macedonia (θέμα Μακεδονίας) the Modern Macedonia (region), and the modern Μακεδονία in Greece and FYR Republika Makedonija (the only "Macedonia not to be Greek so far in history as it populated by Bulgar-Slavs) (Република Македонија), are 7 completely different things.
You think by calling a potato an apple it will taste like an apple.
Phillip II was Macedonian, his 4-th wife Olympias, Alexander mother, was hellen's (Epir) princess with Ilirian rots. With which nationality Alexander declared himself is a different matter, he got a Hellenic education, but the fact remains that his army was composed of Macedonians and Helens. He communicated with the Macedonian soldiers and officer's in an incomprehensible language for the Hellenas.
The ancestry of present-day Macedonians is mixed: their linguistic and cultural origins stem largely from the 6th century CE migrations of various Slavic tribes to southeast Europe.[37] It is generally acknowledged that the ethnic Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th century or even later.FROM WIKIPEDIA.THEY ARE SLAVS WHO CAME TO THE BALKANS IN THE 6TH CENTURY
@thrilos27 unproven theory is that the South Slavs of the Balkans came from the Carpathian Mountains. This theory was used by Russia to establish dominance in the Balkans. South Slavs were native, but lived in the rugged mountains or were slaves. In the 6 century, they were reinforced and the grouping as a people and settled the plains. Part of the South Slavs who settled the area ofPella and Pelagonia is likely to have appeared mixed with Macedonians and Paeonian and assimilate them.
most people look at the evidence THEN drawn conclusions not the other way round.
The archaeological evidence show that Macedon was ethnically, culturally and linguistically Ancient Greek, Often the benchmark for "Greekness" is in fact the Athenian Republic (despite it being only a small part) in the Classical period, in this case Macedon was more "Greek" than Sparta, and no one disputes this"Greekness" of Ancient Sparta.
@thegreathistorian7 Demosthenes called Macedonians as barbarians because of their incomprehensible language; all who didn't spoke Hellenic was called barbarians; the Macedonians also had Persians roots and links (btw they did not participate in the Trojan War). They initially lived further north, and that Prince Cadmo, pushed the Macedonians to the south. Macedonians were different anthropological built from Helena. They had Cement and Phalanx, but had not science, art and ships.
@dimges Native Hellenas were colonized with ships the eastern Aegean, inhabited in the Adriatic Sea, and even they came to the Caucasus (Georgia). Macedonians were the native tribe people from the hill, which later formed the kingdom and won Hellenas, but they accepted the letter and the Hellenistic culture. Alexander got hellenic education and spread Hellenism to Macedonians but also on the large region that has won.
@dimges the reason why FYROMian nationalist tend to use mainly Demosthenes is because they can say "ooo look a Greek who says Macedon was not truely Greek!"
Demosthenes was an ATHENIAN orator (which when it is said "not like other greeks" what is really meant is "not like ATHENS") and he lived under the time of Phillip II occupation of Athens and is well known for his anti-Macedon agenda, i, sure if he lived during the Peloponnesean war he would say how "un-greek" Sparta was.
@dimges no, all who did not live up to Athenians standards were called barbarians, in this case this was just the view of one man, the Ancient Macedonians spoke a dialect of north west greek called Macedonian and was able to communicate with others, by alexanders time it was Attic Greek that was dominant, the by the hellenistic era it was Koine, the after that latin and medieval greek.
Epirus did not participate in the trojan war, neither did the Athenian republic, so? .....
@dimges .... the Trojan war is a completely different era and context.
Most Greek states had persian links, Macedon did not have persian roots.
They were not "different anthropological" (ding-dong the fyromian pseudo-genetics argument has arrived!)
They originated from the same proto-greek pool as other greeks, and they lived in the hills until they move due to pressure from the Orestae, a related tribe who had migrated to Orestis from Pelagonia. In their new Pierian home, north of Olympus
@dimges they did have scienc, and art and had many fleets of ships.
Not that not having those makes them any less greek, the spartans had no fleet at one point, no art, no cement, no science, no written records no anything but no one pulls that out ans says "oo look spartans were not greek".
Which "greeks" are you comparing them to, oh thats right- classical Athens.
also read Demosthenes, Philippic 3 .. about Phillip II
Hey, do you know then many Serbian historic write about old slavic (serb) tribe from southern Balkans ?? ..
there is logic to the Mediterranean and Asia Minor were Crib majority of the tribes and the Slavs settled in northern Europe and Russia coming from the south
Did you know that there are many new archaeological sites?; in Fyr.Macedonia near Ohrid Cyclopean Walls (Philip II), in Albania and Serbia was find new walls were built before the Roman fort, ( near roman fort)
Likewise, some claim that the Macedonians were initially northern, but Cadmo ( Κάδμος, the founder of Ohrid, Lihnidos) pushed him in the region of Vergina and Pella?
Did you know that there are many new archaeological sites, in Fyr.Macedonia near Ohrid Cyclopean Walls (Philip II), in Albania and Serbia was find new walls were built before the Roman fort near them;
@TalosGreekRobot language is not relevant for the assessment of genetic affiliation to a nationality; b.t.w., at that time, macedonians mutually spoken own language, different than helena's ; at the time of Napoleon, in Russia the French language was favored; now after rock-pop and computer invasion in whole world is popular English language;
MACEDONIAN NOBLES RESISTANCE AND THE MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE
During the reign of Alexander the Great, the Macedonians spoke their own native language, as the native language language of Alexander the Great was not understood by the ancient Greeks (Quintus Curtius Rufus, VI, 9, 37 ). .. SEE all botom
@dimges the reason why FYROMian nationalist tend to use mainly Demosthenes is because they can say "ooo look a Greek who says Macedon was not truely Greek!"
Demosthenes was an ATHENIAN orator (which when it is said "not like other greeks" what is really meant is "not like ATHENS") and he lived under the time of Phillip II occupation of Athens and is well known for his anti-Macedon agenda, i, sure if he lived during the Peloponnesean war he would say how "un-greek" Sparta was.
nabataea.net/ahistor.html ... Arian (2nd century AD)
Arian was a Greek historian and philosopher who was the author of a work describing the campaigns of Alexander the Great. page 119 ||| Diodorus Siculus 18.37.3-4
- mix from native Pelazgi (6000 pne) and settlers Dorians
thereafore, macedonians was different then helenas, another human race !!, read Titus Livius book XXXI, page. 44, Arian book battle of Isus page 119/ Diodorus Siculus 18.37.3-4
sure that the Macedonians are not at that time lived in the region of Skopje , but the South Slavs who settled the entire Vardarian region to Sallonike, and they took something macedonian DNA, so that the ancient Macedonian DNA present in today's Slavic Macedonians who live in all region of Thesalloniki and to Skopje, as distinct from hellenic DNA
@shockolanu ..yes, the DNA does not represent CULTURE. But dominant people of Macedonia from Slavic settlement VI AD during first Balcan war was Slavic ( admitted and new Thessaloniki Mayor). Greek colonization of Macedonia begin after first Balcan War, with the Greeks and other nations people (called Magyars) to reduce the dominance of the Slavic , and begin with the genocide of Slavs until 1948 .. It is a fact, is no territorial aspirations, but right of exiled indigenous Slavic population
Basil the Bulgar Slayer was Macedonian emperor of the Byzantine Empire. It is him and people like Cyril and Methodius whom sparked the Macedonian renaissance of Medieval Times. At that time, the Bulgars and Sklaveni existed and they had no connection with Basil.
At the time of the Ottoman occupation, the entire region belonged to the Byzantine Empire - Greece.
Speaking about DNA... Thracians are Ionian Greeks that migrated in 2000 BC from Asia Minor. Illyrians the same (from Troy).
@dimges ha haha,,,hey....read history and learn that the ancient Macedonians, as the real ones that still exist ARE the Dorians, Read history, its easy :)
Most MAcedonians have their comments blocked. Way to go on the dialogue.
The point is, morons, that even if he wasn't Greek - and that is a big even - Alexander aspired to the Greek ways he adopted the Greek culture and even had Greek tutors. Essentially everything about him was Greek. If he was Macedonian, he clearly wasn't proud of it.
@Atheeizm, Personally as owner of the this chanel i never block any message,now if you accept the Slav bulgarians as Macedonians its your thing,You try to state something but you fail, because first your opinion is the opinion of nobody as history is somebody, and secondly what are you talking about do you know ?
alexander was greek not only because of his blood not because anything else but he was speaking greek thought with the greek way and died with the greek honour..... he didn't speak any kind of skopian language.... GREEK DAMMIT he was teached about homer (the one who wrote odyssey and ilada) he WAS GREEK DAMMIT achiles the rolemodell of alexander was GREEK .....FUCK YOU GUYS HE >> WAS GREEEEEEK ..... its like i say ....hitler was from china.... or hitler was from africa.....
Alexander The Great is Born of Jules ,July Cancer KING of Our Milky-Way Galaxy Seen Easily by Naked Eye in July Zodiac. Alexander The Great speaks to the KING of the Summer Zodiac NOW, Alexander was Born on July 20th 356 B.C.E. Alexander did NOT Corrupt like ALL the rest of you Sinners when given POWER. Alexander The Great Gave All "EQUAL REPRESENTATION & WELCOMED ALL BABYLONIAN PEOPLE &ASIA MINOR PEOPLE INTO HIS GREAT GREECE DOMINION DEMOCRACIES SOCIALISM EQUAL DISTRIBUTIONof WEALTH FOR PEOPLE
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Herodotos who visited Alexander I. of Macedonia (5th century) said both Macedonian kings and population were Greeks and particularly of Dorian stock. (Ηρόδοτος, Ιστορίες, 5,17–22; 8,139
pastiziogr 1 week ago
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pastiziogr 1 week ago
Alexander the Great was Hellene, he spread hellenism in the known world. Makedonians were called barbarians because of the different life style. As I know they lived half-nomad life before the Makedonian Kingdom. Btw. Is there any news about his tomb?
hunjoco75 1 week ago
@hunjoco75 as far as i know no news about His tomb,,, and i dont think that in our age we will hear anything about....!
socratis904 1 week ago
@socratis904 and your english is fucking terrible
UPC95 1 week ago
@UPC95 better to speak terrible English than using English the way you do!
socratis904 1 week ago
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UPC95 1 week ago
@socratis904 you are a very foolish man for one who speaks of plato and whatnot, it matters little who wrote down what happened in history its the facts that matter. Alexander was a makedonian king not greek. get over it. Greece was never that great, the illyrians frequently raided you, they defeated a combined army of makedonians and spartans, i come from a race of warriors not from a race of talkers. Ive had enough of your ignorance i cant tolerate your idiocy any more.
UPC95 1 week ago
@UPC95 As a barbarian that you are i forgive you, its not your fault that you were born barbarian and you live as a barbarian, you are the way you were born
socratis904 1 week ago
@socratis904 typical greek, you cannot justify HISTORY with MYTHS of pagan gods, you speak in endless circles of stubborn idiocy, you say you have read. Your replies do not reflect it, i say that you are the one full of propoganda, just like all greeks. Epirus right now is divided between albania and greece. Alexander had illyrian blood too. I need not speak with identity i speak with my logic, identity only adds false weight to words, words should stand alone. theres some philosophy for you.
UPC95 1 week ago
@UPC95 yes Epirus is divided and many Greeks live there, You know that! And if you name history myths and pagan storys then why do nt you name what history is for you? show me who wrote the history of Alexander the great, any Albanian? i dont think so,,,,,
socratis904 1 week ago
@socratis904 epiros was a semi illyrian semi greek power. which is why they called alexanders mother a barbarian because of the illrian in her. i live in london not albania i dont know propoganda i read from books, the history channel made a show about alexander and they confirmed the fact alexander was part illyrian/albanian. and i hardly think YOU can criticise my english.
UPC95 1 week ago
@UPC95 As i see propaganda works good there, you see dear man, Olympiada, was straight from the family of king Hellene, that had as brother king Graeko, that they both had another brother Amphiction, and a little sister named Thyia, which had two sons Magnita and Macedon, excuse me for not understanding your English, but i still hope that you will understand my history,the Illyrians had nothing to do with the Mollosians,you cant question those books
socratis904 1 week ago
@UPC95 and if you want to write again, i suggest you to write with statments, if you can find some, because in this video we present history with an identity, and you speak here with no identity, you say theories, maybe YOU speak good englsih, and i dont, but surelly YOU have no logic something that is Greek and you ll have to be educated by Plato and other philosophers so to gain some!
socratis904 1 week ago
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UPC95 1 week ago
well what you need to take into account is that modern day albania was epirus which was a semi greek/illyrian culture with heavy greek influence. this is where alexanders mother was from, i dont claim that that alexander was 100% because i would be as far fetched as everyone else making things up, and illyria was an enemy of greece, we sacked you many a time, we almost destroyed macedon untill philip II defeated us, but we were not an enemy to alexander, he used illyrian soldiers. thumps up plz
UPC95 1 week ago
@UPC95 except from the logical fact that your commen has no realation with this video, maybe its your English, i ll have to inform you, that Alexander had used Thracians as Paeonians too except Illirians in His campaing in Asia,(as many from the rest of Greece) and that He had war with the Illirians where He got wounded too. as for that story that Epiros is Albanian According to Alexander was not, read His history from the sources and not the propaganda, other thing is Illyria other is Epiros
socratis904 1 week ago
@them0tive Winning the right to use a name doesn't make you Macedonian monkeyboy and it was just for the use of a name. O.J. Simpson won a court decision too that doesn't mean nothing. If I were you ide stop trolling these posts and stop jerking off and get yourself some pussy. Fyrom women give great head including your mommy and sister...oh but you probably know that already
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@them0tive No my mistake that post was actually directed toawards you. I do have other more important things to do as I hold down a real job not just sit home while mommy still works like you do. And unlike you I do make mistakes because I'm human, the highest form of human there is macedonian Greek(unlike you)
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@them0tive Now run along little boy before I hack your ip and let your mommy know you use her laptop to troll the internet
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
Go earn a proper living you fakilaki corrupt bastard.
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive If you had any brain you would instead spend your time trying to validate fyrom in the real world on a larger venue like the U.N. but you don't . Maybe you're smarter than I thought because you know anywhere you go it would be a losing argument. That's why you troll YouTube YOUVREALLY HAVE NO OTHER PLATFORM. You know no one will even pay any mind to you. Without YouTube, you load the gun and shoot yourself guaranteed you fukin simpleton
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
We won the World Court decision (Macedonia vs Greece) regarding the use of our name on 5th December - that high enough for you?
My persona, or name that is, was a direct response to you little gayreek national right wing white greece and only white greece ethos, kill all the rest in a genocidal rampage attitude poofters.
them0tive 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013 I enjoy toying with little pee-ons like you idiot shits and giggles. I dont really see how you put me in my seat but I'll play along. You're such a small person inside. And you so know it. That's why your on YouTube trolling uploads and trying to validate yourself by posting complete nonsense. Makes you feel good about yourself little small self because my friend these are the limitations of your life. That's not my fault that's yours.
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
You're not only delusional, your starting to talk with yourself - that. is. a. sign. of. lunacy.
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive no you ignorant little dirtbag my initial post that was private was me responding to you posting to me in private. Lol Your brain caters to your ego so I'll patronize uou and day it was cuz I'm afraid of you REALLY AFRAID LOL
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
Oh really? Does your older brother use the same youtube account?
them0tive 1 month ago
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LESSON 1 Megas Alexandros was king of Macedon one of the states of Greece-Plutarch
LESSON2 ALEXANDROS IS HELLENE-Demosthenes
LESSON3 Macedonia of course is a part of Greece-Strabo
LESSON4 Megas Alexandros:
As Hellenes we should not be slaves to barbarians-Callisthenes
LESSON5 Megas Alexandros made Greece the most powerful & Glorious country in the world-Pliny the Elder
LESSON6 Macedonians spoke Greek-Titus Livius
LESSON7 For I Alexander myself am by ancient descent a Greek-(Herod. IX)
FYROMSKI 1 month ago
I have gold coins with Alexanders face and name on them that have ancient Greek writing. You pathetic little monkeys lololollllol if I had no culture I would try to steal greeces too
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
A famous neighbour is on your greek coins - whoop dee do. It was probably commissioned to be minted by a Macedonian. ;-)
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive you done spewing diarhea out of your mouth?? Dont forget to flush the toilet now you fucken junkbox
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
Your initial post to me was in private - when i put you in your seat you took it here in public with expletives. Did you learn to keep your cool from that mythical fgt hercules? Or was that god stolen / likened / adapte from --- the more superior race at the time -- Egypt God Horus? Shrug, we may never know! ;-)
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive
Maybe i am thinking of Zeus, shrug, its all mythical and hard to keep up!
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive you must stop having sex with animals, find a woman. stop watching too much porno on internet, start drinking good clean water and do nt take more drugs :). ante gamisou tora malaka, understand?
socratis904 1 month ago
@socratis904
Haha grasping at straws when you have nothing; literally nothing - in the head, in the wallet, in life. I enjoy conversing with you right wing gayreek nationilsts.
them0tive 1 month ago
@greekabout you dumb fuck use your brain today's modern turkey was Greece back then so he was Greek. Don't try playing reverse psychology and don't try playing mind games you ignorant fuck. You have the IQ of my right nut
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013 ha ha ! he does nt even know that Turkey was not existed i nthe time of Homer, the jerk! uneducate moron with the brain of a cow!
socratis904 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
What's the climate like in Yunanistan?
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive ,You are from Asia or Africa and you use the name Yunanistan ?
socratis904 1 month ago
@socratis904
Yunanistan - look it up. Ottoman FTW.
Using your modern greek DNA origins as a reference to your rebuttal? LMFAO stop chasing your tail. Pretty much on par with the confused battle of gaugamela - where greeks fought greeks.
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive you mean that the geographic territory tha tyou live was not part of the Ottoma empire? former turikish repabliq of paeonia with dardania and bulgaria and serbia a? i am really asking what do you have wit hthe Serbs? they send away the turks from the ancient Paeonia a? now go and place your finger at your nose , you look so pretty like this
socratis904 1 month ago
@socratis904
Back at ya Yunanistan! Now go walk in a circle..
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive i forgot , as for my dna, come and get it and you ll see what it is made off!
socratis904 1 month ago
@socratis904
Temper temper, you sound like a little kid, too.
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive no i speak very clam, i just chalenge you barbarian,
socratis904 4 weeks ago
@them0tive wouldnt know, ask your mommy(if you still know her)
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@them0tive listen I don't even hate you or dislike you. I actually feel bad for you, you inferior simple minded fuck. Think about it, I have more culture I'm my left nut than you I make more money than you and your "wana be" Macedonian family make in a whole year I make in a month. And I get more pussy in 1 weekend than you have gotten in your whole life. It's no wonder why women from bitoula line up to swing off my balls like Tarzan. I have 3!on Facebook right now
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
@them0tive Why do I fancy?? Loololol you must be one of those fagy brits. You must be annoyed because every time you come to NYC you get verbally abused by everybody and then when you go to Greece with your gf in the summer me and my friends line up so your gf can give blowjobs. Lolllllolol IDE be pissed off too but don't blame me she has good taste PLUS she does good blojobs re papara eh papara.
lordgreek2013 1 month ago
watch?v=rkqxQ3qZg90&feature=youtu.be&t=10m29s
A Greek from Greece calling Greece "The most corrupt nation in Eurpoe."
'nuff said.
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive .it did nt said in Europe but in Europe zone, now let me ask you something asa representeter of your country, how a nation can be named upon you with this responce of yours in a video presentation abouit the issue of the nationality of Alexander ? id say idiot! you are the most idiot nation in the galaxy
socratis904 1 month ago
@socratis904
Oh, sorry! A Greek from Greece calling Greece, officialy "The most corrupt nation in the EuroZone." Better? A turd is still a turd, you know.
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive this does nt make you Macedonianm neither states that Alexander of Macedon was not Greek. If you have to state something relative about this video presentation do it, otherwise go fuck your self properlly as a barbarian that you are, According to Plutarch Alexander changed the old Greek saying " everybody that is not Greek is a barbarian" to "everyboby that has envy and is bad is a barbarian, and everybody that has goodness and virtue is Greek. And here is His history. in those books
socratis904 1 month ago
Greece is faking history, read about our Greece "historian" Herodotus, actualy born in Turky! of all places so..... he lied about history, made it up (well documented) and was born in today's Turky... so was he greek or Turkish? alexander the great was born in todays Greece but then it was Macedonia... the rest of us Greek's think about that for a second and then ask yourself who is faking what...
Greekabout 1 month ago
New greek Touristic commercial watch?v=7Fl0fsMRG5M&feature=related
them0tive 1 month ago
Greeks are Gypsies, who know only to spend, what other people earn ! Merkel is to you that which is for the Turks Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.
pselus1 1 month ago
@pselus1 with the brain that you have you could nt writte anything better than what you allready wrote little sweet barbarian...you seem to be little smarter than a cow... just try to think if your comment is relative to the video presentation :)
socratis904 1 month ago
News Alert: Greece has defaulted and is forced to change their name to Southern Israel.
Get out, every last one of you sub-saharans and pave the way for the new Zionist state.
Oh the irony.
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive only a barbarian could write a comment like yours on a video presentation that presents history of Alexander the third of Macedon! and this is not ironic, unfortunatelly !
socratis904 1 month ago
@socratis904
A gayreek presenting myths is not history - oh wait, it was considered as history for a while though wasnt it? Lots of myths get debunked dont they hellass?
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive. a little sweet barbarian spoke, but have nt present any history yet! have nt you FYROMian ?
socratis904 1 month ago
@socratis904
From my understanding, ancient greeks refered to Macedonians as the barbarians, in the sense that they were not greek. I take what you called me as a compliment. Even though your sub-saharn DNA does not make you a descendant of ancient greeks, though. :)
them0tive 1 month ago
@them0tive the ancient Greeks wew refering to the Macedonians as barbarians? and how do you know that my little sweet barbarian? have nt you read the history of Alexander the great by the ancient Greek historians?i suppose that you have nt, i am sure that those books the only real historical books about Alexander does nt exist in your pathetic country, and remember well this,even in i am sub saharian or not you will never became Macedonian.NEVER next time that you ll speak about history, name it
socratis904 1 month ago
@them0tive yup and after portugal should change their name and then spain, then italy, then ireland..and basically half the eurozone!! it`s not only greece you fucker!! Go fuck some kangaroos in australia ;)
tgi1990 1 month ago
@tgi1990
I have no beef with Portugal, et al - i do with you however. So, like i said, pave the way douche, because you're living with borrowed time there.
them0tive 1 month ago
I've taken my equal share in payment back from their women anyway. If I were to buy a prostitute every day for the next 5 years i still it would cost me a fortune. I've taken 5 years worth of blowjobs from their women In the past '10 years. Their women alone have gulped down enough of my cum to pay for renting the name Macedonia from us. And I'm not the only 1 so when you look at it from that point of view its a differernt ball game. The way I see it, they have another 1-2 yrs of lease of the n
lordgreek2013 2 months ago
Socrates? When you come across a starving homeless child on the street don't you give him a dollar to go eat? We Greeks have enough culture to go Around the earth 20 times. Let the skopians have some too much in the same way you give the starving child money. We have enough no need to argue. Besides, we gain extra noteriety through them for free, not that we need it. HERE skopians, take a dollar and go get a bite to eat.
lordgreek2013 2 months ago
I'm into fucking women from bitoula and skopia on their back door. They love it more than I do(seriously). I also forbid them from speaking Slavic in my presence. Im originally from a small town im north greece called Amideo. Do you dumb skopians even know who amidas was? Free poutso sfaliares to the 1st 3 skopian ladies that can answer me that(really). Ty
lordgreek2013 2 months ago
@lordgreek2013 Hello MACEDONIAN BROTHER... speak to the Slavs who you are hahaha :)
socratis904 2 months ago
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them0tive 1 month ago
@lordgreek2013
Why do you fancy the backdoor so far abroad when you could simply go to gay mykonos in YOUR country and be proclaimed the king of that village. Or the village idiot - shrug.
them0tive 1 month ago
BIG THUMBS UP
lordgreek2013 2 months ago
IF YOU BELIEVE THAT MACEDONIA AND ALEXANDER THE GREAT IS GREEK THEN PLEASE THUMB UP!!
POTIS1 2 months ago 9
Macedonia was a state of ancient Greece, nowadays remains one of Greece’s regions and populated from Greek peoples; the last few years after the break-up of Yugoslavia a new country popped and tries to get a name that connect them with ancient roots.
Anyway, don't mix sugar and salt, the new Macedonia is a Slavic state that has nothing to do with ancient Macedonia, any more than New Guinea in Ocean Pacific related to Guinea in Africa.
dicktp 3 months ago
Tolisakis97 3 months ago 3
Αυτός τε γαρ Έλλην γένος ειμί τω αρχαίον και αντ' ελευθέρης δεδουλωμένην ουκ αν εθέλοιμι οράν τη Ελλάδα... Ειμί δε Αλέξανδρος ο Μακεδών.»
R3dro0st3R 3 months ago
ok to make it clear...Macedonia is Eskimoo country...Thrace is Chinese...Epirus is Indian...Peloponessos is Australian...Thessaly is Brazilian...Crete is Argentinian...Cyprus is New Zeland...And by that we conclude that there isnt a Greece or Hellas...its a figment of the imagination of the Greek people who stole those from the real owners...to get serious now...tAKE this and SHUT THE FUCK UP /watch?v=uBDJJAJ94Gk
HellenicSacredKin 3 months ago
And now read the mother language of planet earth:
Ἀλέξανδρος ὅτι τῷ γένει πρὸς πατρὸς μὲν ἦν Ἡρακλείδης ἀπὸ Καράνου, πρὸς δὲ μητρὸς Αἰακίδης ἀπὸ Νεοπτολέμου, τῶν πάνυ πεπιστευμένων ἐστί.
soutaki3 3 months ago
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thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
the Kingdom of Μακεδονία , Provincia Macedoniae (Επαρχία Μακεδονίας),Dioecesis Macedoniae (Διοίκησις Μακεδονίας), Theme of Macedonia (θέμα Μακεδονίας) the Modern Macedonia (region), and the modern Μακεδονία in Greece and FYR Republika Makedonija (Република Македонија), are 7 completely different things.
End of.
Same name does not equate a right to take the history associated with that name.
Americans in the state of Georgia do not claim Sakartvelo's history just because they are the same name
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 South Slavs settled in the region of Pella 1400 years before; they was dominant there, until the Balkan wars of 1913 when the Greek state, instead of differentiating them from the Bulgarians and the Serbs, began to haunt them. They are the Balkan natives who were in 6 th century began to spread from the mountains into the plains, and the Bulgarians are a mixture of Asians and Slavs.
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges If Slav Macedonians was not manipulated by the Bulgarians and Serbs, maybe they could then (1913) establish an autonomous out of Serbia and Yugoslavia. Ridiculous to claim that it is now a threat and ambition, and therefore negate the Slav Macedonian identity and Macedonian language .
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges In that case, the Greek government to recognize that the 1913-1948 expelled the Bulgarians from northern Greece, and they would in an eventual new war Bulgaria will be got the same ambitions as well in WW and WW2.
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges the Macedonian language was created in the 1940's using the local Bulgarian dialect and adding around four Serbian letters to it.
I know reality is hard but your just gonna have to deal with it.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 Wrong; Macedonian (Slavic) language is in use much earlier, I have a Greek contract of sale where the seller (my great-grandfather) does not know the Greek language and used a court interpreter, the language is emphasized by the term, however, is not Bulgarian; also Abecedarium who printed the Greek government isn't for the Bulgarian language. There are plenty of literary and dramatic works published in Croatia, much before 1940.
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges how much earlier? Not much I reckon and certainly no where near anything to do with Ancient Macedon.
On top of that this "language" alphabet is STILL Bulgarian with around 4 Serb letters. Call it what you want, but you will never find any evidence linking you with the Kingdom of Macedon, which the area of has been continually inhabited by the Greek Macedonians, who are the original Inhabitants of the Kingdom, (like Athens has by Greek Athenians) since antiquity.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 wrong; the first (Slavic) Macedonian latinic primer (alphabet) was printed in Athen, 1925, and in Prilep - Bitola - Florina speech. see ... scribd.com/doc/46105665/ABECEDAR-1925 .. As the creator of the modern Macedonian cyrilic alphabet is considered Krste Misirkov, born in Pella 1874th. Alphabet is very similar to Serbian, but the different pronunciation and accents. Bulgarian alphabet is with bigger difference.
dimges 3 months ago
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thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
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thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
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thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
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thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
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thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@dimges I cant seem to make the comment line break, so copy and paste it and separate it out, as you will see. "Macedonian" and Serbian and Bulgarian are very similar and "Macedonian" is blatantly a transitional Dialect between the two.
As for the Greek and the ancient Macedonians well.... nothing more needs to be said.
not surprising since the real Macedonians have lived in the real Macedonia in Greece for 4000 years.
umadbro?
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
Slavs have nothing to do with Macedon.
The Macedonian language is Bulgarian with a few Serb letters added in the 1940's.
Probably by Tito, hear a lot of Greeks whining about Tito so presume it was done under his rule.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 Tito and Russia agreed at Yalta that Tito gets a part of Histria, but the northern Greek region remain still in Greece; so in the sense that Stalin called in SSSR Party Secretary of the Communist Party of Greece. Tito had allowed 1948 the British tanks to enter in Yugoslavia, near Bitola, and attack behind the back the Greek and Slavic Macedonian Communists, in the mountain near Florina
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges does not mean a Slav have anything to do with Macedon though.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 the South Slavs settled the region of Macedonia 5-7 centuries after the Gothic war and were dominant in the heart of of Macedonia until 1913/25. If the ancient Macedonians disappeared before the Slavs arrival , would have been lost the geographical name of Macedonia, and would not have existed Macedonian DNK in the local population .
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges Certainly, the culture and religion are another matter, but the fact is that today's Greece is Orthodox , in Greece can't find ancient names ( who are not Orthodox names). interestingly, in the region of Ohrid can find names and surnames with ancient originating , eg Nestor, Nestorov. Isn't logical that the Greeks expelled from Turkey and settled in the region of Macedonia 1913, can be the Macedonians , because Alexander was speaking Greek
dimges 3 months ago
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@dimges
YOU DONT KNOW HISTORY. YOU ARE BRAINWASHED
All Macedonians Kings were Greeks.
pellamakedonia 3 months ago 2
@dimges Dosnt not mean Slavs have anything to do with MACEDON though.
Greeks have lived in Macedon since its formation and continued to do so through and past the Slavic invasions and still do today as they are the original and current inhabitants of the area that was MACEDON (not nessacery the various region(s) of Macedonia- different thing?)
They are the Macedonians.
You are Bulgarians who were Brainwashed by tito.
You don't even live in the area where Macedon was.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 read - In the Shadow of Olympus | The Emergence of Macedon and Eugene Borza
Who Were (and Are) the Macedonians? .. 2. My ancestors are from the heart of Macedonia ( Today greece province Macedonia), regardless of what they have Slavic names, they have genes of ancient Macedonians, unlike christians immigrants ( 1913-1922), magjiras from Turkey or immigrants from southern Greece.
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges
simply, after the dictatorship of General Metaxa starts the expulsion of indigenous peoples , with Slavic names, but different than Serb and Bulgarians
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges ive read it, but stop quoting Eugene Borza like all the others, its really embarrassing for you, next thing you will do is misquote Demosthenes or something, ive heard it all before.
DNA is not a way to prove nationality, you only use it because you cannot find actual archaeological or physical evidence link you as a Slav to ancient Greeks in Macedonia, Its a total fallacy, under your pretext, every one who lives in european country's and Is not white cannot be part of those nations.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 theme of this video clip was Alexander the Great nationality ..one historian has recently released a book based on ancient authors which has details of which clearly shows that the Macedonians were not Greeks .. and the Macedonians were not native, who moved into the area and gave it the name Macedonia; after collapse of the Roman province, name Macedonia is forgotten until the end of the 19th century
dimges 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 /StojancePanov/ancient-macedonians-were-not-greeks-aleksandar-donski ... no matter how authoritative the author, here is some interesting details
2. ..fact is that many historians of ex-yu countries today deny the theory of immigration of the Slavs in the Balkans, and they believe that ex-yu peoples are descended from local, Balkan's tribe Veneti (Gaul), protoslavs
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges Slavs are Balkan natives? The Slavs came from the steppes in the 6th century AD which is after the Kingdom of Μακεδονία and some later roman Regions, no Slav has any right to claim the identity and history of Macedon. Especially not "ethnic macedonains" who only manifested in history in the 20th century, particularly as they are Blatantly Bulgars.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
His Ethnicity (along with all ancient Macedonians) was Greek and his State was Macedon, both of which have nothing to do with Bulgar-Slavs In Skopje, not in History, Archaeology, or even Location.
Calling a Potato and apple does not make it taste like an apple.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
(read in reverse order as appearing on the comment thread)
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
and finally....
If the french were doing this with British history I would be pissed, I don't know how the Greek tolerate such fantastical nonsense.
Internet troll republic.
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
combined with some racist remarks against Ethiopia, and claims that only the sun or the moon is older than the “Macedonians” , all wrapped up with some Drowning pool song or 009 soundsystem with some pictures made on Microsoft paint or some kind of wacky lion chariot combined with some copy and pasted Greek artifacts with some statements like "macedonia is love", "macedonia pride" and other things of no actual substance or meaning.
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
Its a total fallacy, under your pretext, every one who lives in european country's and Is not white cannot be part of those nations, the genetic arrgument is racist and does not hold in debate at all. ) made by companies that have never has their works published in peer- reviewed journals, or out of context works from ATHENIAN orators producing Anti-Macedon views during the time of the Kingdom of Μακεδονία occupation of Athens
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
They can only have some link with the modern Macedonia (region) and the republic itself (Република Македонија) The whole concept of the Bulgar-Slav people of FYROM having anything to do with the other 5 example’s I listed only seems to exist on poorly made youtube video’s slideshow of pseudo-genetics arguments (not that genetics or DNA is an argument or indeed has been used for territorial ambitions in history ever, under that racist masquerade is every Black man in Britain not British?
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
You dont really understand the history of the region, not can you seem to comprehend the difference betweem Macedon and the various historical regions of Macedonia. Just because they have the same name does not mean it is the same thing. Just because you call yourselves macedonia does not mean Alexander magically spoke slavic and rode a lion chariot haha.
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
There is no actual evidence that supports your claims or any argument that has not already been refuted, all you have is blind faith, its almost like a religion, except less credible.
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
In 20 years FYROM has been unable to provide a single piece of archaeological or historical evidence to prove the link between the Bulgar-Slavs of FYROM (or indeed ANY Slavs) and the ancient Macedonians. Even If you find greek artifacts in the very southern most regions we find Roman stuff all the time in GB it dosnt make us Roman, no more that Afghan's Hellenic when they find busts of Alexander or temples to Zeus.
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
Obviously you are confused, the Kingdom of Μακεδονία , Provincia Macedoniae (Επαρχία Μακεδονίας),Dioecesis Macedoniae (Διοίκησις Μακεδονίας), Theme of Macedonia (θέμα Μακεδονίας) the Modern Macedonia (region), and the modern Μακεδονία in Greece and FYR Republika Makedonija (the only "Macedonia not to be Greek so far in history as it populated by Bulgar-Slavs) (Република Македонија), are 7 completely different things.
You think by calling a potato an apple it will taste like an apple.
thegreathistorian7 4 months ago
If Alexander was Albanian or Slav, then Hitler must was Indian. No doubt.
Georgios763 4 months ago
@Georgios763
Phillip II was Macedonian, his 4-th wife Olympias, Alexander mother, was hellen's (Epir) princess with Ilirian rots. With which nationality Alexander declared himself is a different matter, he got a Hellenic education, but the fact remains that his army was composed of Macedonians and Helens. He communicated with the Macedonian soldiers and officer's in an incomprehensible language for the Hellenas.
dimges 4 months ago
@dimges
Why are you confusing Molossians with Illyrians ?
Georgios763 4 months ago
The ancestry of present-day Macedonians is mixed: their linguistic and cultural origins stem largely from the 6th century CE migrations of various Slavic tribes to southeast Europe.[37] It is generally acknowledged that the ethnic Macedonian identity emerged in the late 19th century or even later.FROM WIKIPEDIA.THEY ARE SLAVS WHO CAME TO THE BALKANS IN THE 6TH CENTURY
thrilos27 4 months ago
@thrilos27 unproven theory is that the South Slavs of the Balkans came from the Carpathian Mountains. This theory was used by Russia to establish dominance in the Balkans. South Slavs were native, but lived in the rugged mountains or were slaves. In the 6 century, they were reinforced and the grouping as a people and settled the plains. Part of the South Slavs who settled the area ofPella and Pelagonia is likely to have appeared mixed with Macedonians and Paeonian and assimilate them.
dimges 4 months ago
@dimges unproven.
ie: no evidence has been found to support it.
most people look at the evidence THEN drawn conclusions not the other way round.
The archaeological evidence show that Macedon was ethnically, culturally and linguistically Ancient Greek, Often the benchmark for "Greekness" is in fact the Athenian Republic (despite it being only a small part) in the Classical period, in this case Macedon was more "Greek" than Sparta, and no one disputes this"Greekness" of Ancient Sparta.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@thegreathistorian7 Demosthenes called Macedonians as barbarians because of their incomprehensible language; all who didn't spoke Hellenic was called barbarians; the Macedonians also had Persians roots and links (btw they did not participate in the Trojan War). They initially lived further north, and that Prince Cadmo, pushed the Macedonians to the south. Macedonians were different anthropological built from Helena. They had Cement and Phalanx, but had not science, art and ships.
dimges 3 months ago
Comment removed
dimges 3 months ago
@dimges Native Hellenas were colonized with ships the eastern Aegean, inhabited in the Adriatic Sea, and even they came to the Caucasus (Georgia). Macedonians were the native tribe people from the hill, which later formed the kingdom and won Hellenas, but they accepted the letter and the Hellenistic culture. Alexander got hellenic education and spread Hellenism to Macedonians but also on the large region that has won.
dimges 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dimges the reason why FYROMian nationalist tend to use mainly Demosthenes is because they can say "ooo look a Greek who says Macedon was not truely Greek!"
Demosthenes was an ATHENIAN orator (which when it is said "not like other greeks" what is really meant is "not like ATHENS") and he lived under the time of Phillip II occupation of Athens and is well known for his anti-Macedon agenda, i, sure if he lived during the Peloponnesean war he would say how "un-greek" Sparta was.
Learn context.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@dimges no, all who did not live up to Athenians standards were called barbarians, in this case this was just the view of one man, the Ancient Macedonians spoke a dialect of north west greek called Macedonian and was able to communicate with others, by alexanders time it was Attic Greek that was dominant, the by the hellenistic era it was Koine, the after that latin and medieval greek.
Epirus did not participate in the trojan war, neither did the Athenian republic, so? .....
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@dimges .... the Trojan war is a completely different era and context.
Most Greek states had persian links, Macedon did not have persian roots.
They were not "different anthropological" (ding-dong the fyromian pseudo-genetics argument has arrived!)
They originated from the same proto-greek pool as other greeks, and they lived in the hills until they move due to pressure from the Orestae, a related tribe who had migrated to Orestis from Pelagonia. In their new Pierian home, north of Olympus
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
@dimges they did have scienc, and art and had many fleets of ships.
Not that not having those makes them any less greek, the spartans had no fleet at one point, no art, no cement, no science, no written records no anything but no one pulls that out ans says "oo look spartans were not greek".
Which "greeks" are you comparing them to, oh thats right- classical Athens.
Classical Athens was not "The Greeks"
Learn context.
umadbro
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
also read Demosthenes, Philippic 3 .. about Phillip II
Hey, do you know then many Serbian historic write about old slavic (serb) tribe from southern Balkans ?? ..
there is logic to the Mediterranean and Asia Minor were Crib majority of the tribes and the Slavs settled in northern Europe and Russia coming from the south
dimges 6 months ago
@dimges, do yhou take drygs? answer to me straight ok ? maybe i can help you
socratis904 6 months ago
@socratis904
Did you know that there are many new archaeological sites?; in Fyr.Macedonia near Ohrid Cyclopean Walls (Philip II), in Albania and Serbia was find new walls were built before the Roman fort, ( near roman fort)
dimges 6 months ago
@dimges there are also in China!
socratis904 6 months ago
@dimges
Likewise, some claim that the Macedonians were initially northern, but Cadmo ( Κάδμος, the founder of Ohrid, Lihnidos) pushed him in the region of Vergina and Pella?
dimges 6 months ago
@socratis904
Did you know that there are many new archaeological sites, in Fyr.Macedonia near Ohrid Cyclopean Walls (Philip II), in Albania and Serbia was find new walls were built before the Roman fort near them;
dimges 6 months ago
@dimges Are you all using drugs in fyro-vardarska ???
Because only this can explain that in fyro-vardarska you create those scient fiction stories......
μακεδονια = ΕΛΛΑΔΑ
fyro-vardarska = BULGARIA LIKE YOUR LANGUAGE.....
TalosGreekRobot 5 months ago
@TalosGreekRobot language is not relevant for the assessment of genetic affiliation to a nationality; b.t.w., at that time, macedonians mutually spoken own language, different than helena's ; at the time of Napoleon, in Russia the French language was favored; now after rock-pop and computer invasion in whole world is popular English language;
dimges 5 months ago
@dimges LOL !!!!
JOKE OF THE DAY : macedonians didnt speak GREEK but different language . LOL !!!
So show me just ONE , JUST ONE ancient macedonian script that is not in GREEK LANGUAGE !!!
You are pathetic beilive me .
You must be shamed of your lies.
BUT , HISTORY IS WRITTEN and the whole planet knows : ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ = ΕΛΛΑΔΑ
TalosGreekRobot 5 months ago
@TalosGreekRobot see website .. (google)
MACEDONIAN NOBLES RESISTANCE AND THE MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE
During the reign of Alexander the Great, the Macedonians spoke their own native language, as the native language language of Alexander the Great was not understood by the ancient Greeks (Quintus Curtius Rufus, VI, 9, 37 ). .. SEE all botom
dimges 5 months ago
@dimges site ????? LOL
i asked for ancient scripts and your answer is to visit a vardarskian site ??? LOL
You must be kidding.....
ok so there is not even 1 ancient script.
Now tell me what does the word μακεδονια means.......
TalosGreekRobot 5 months ago
@dimges maybe africa..
ApaleutosMits 4 months ago
@dimges the reason why FYROMian nationalist tend to use mainly Demosthenes is because they can say "ooo look a Greek who says Macedon was not truely Greek!"
Demosthenes was an ATHENIAN orator (which when it is said "not like other greeks" what is really meant is "not like ATHENS") and he lived under the time of Phillip II occupation of Athens and is well known for his anti-Macedon agenda, i, sure if he lived during the Peloponnesean war he would say how "un-greek" Sparta was.
Learn context.
thegreathistorian7 3 months ago
nabataea.net/ahistor.html ... Arian (2nd century AD)
Arian was a Greek historian and philosopher who was the author of a work describing the campaigns of Alexander the Great. page 119 ||| Diodorus Siculus 18.37.3-4
Livy's book XXXI.44 .. slavomirhorak.euweb.cz/makedonie_historie.htm
dimges 6 months ago
@dimges. A? ???? What you are talking about? i own Arrian books, the prototypes, i do not need internet links :)
socratis904 6 months ago
@socratis904
it's more theory about antic macedonians
- old helenic tribe
-mix of thrace & illyrians
-substrat of payonians, pelagons and brigs
- mix from native Pelazgi (6000 pne) and settlers Dorians
thereafore, macedonians was different then helenas, another human race !!, read Titus Livius book XXXI, page. 44, Arian book battle of Isus page 119/ Diodorus Siculus 18.37.3-4
dimges 6 months ago
@dimges you are amazing!
socratis904 6 months ago
@dimges
Theories that have not been proven are nothing but empty words.
Antic Macedonians are Hellenic people mixed with native Thracians (very closely related with Hellenic people, especially Ionians).
When Karanus the Dorian, settled in Macedon, it was inhabited by native people.
Illyrians were not present at that time. They emerged during 7th century BC. Paeonians emerged even later (Thracians + Illyrians)
Pelagonians were Hellenic people, closely related to Dorians.
shockolanu 5 months ago
@shockolanu
sure that the Macedonians are not at that time lived in the region of Skopje , but the South Slavs who settled the entire Vardarian region to Sallonike, and they took something macedonian DNA, so that the ancient Macedonian DNA present in today's Slavic Macedonians who live in all region of Thesalloniki and to Skopje, as distinct from hellenic DNA
dimges 5 months ago
@dimges
South Slavs are not the same as the Vardarians (Magyars) and Vardar region has no connection with Thessaloniki.
Even if they took the DNA, the DNA does not represent CULTURE. The Macedonian Culture is Hellenic from day one, not Slavic.
Then why should you take the name of real Macedonians who actually have Hellenic DNA and Hellenic culture?
The people of FYROM can call themselves whatever they want, but not Macedonians, because the name belongs to Greek people of Macedonia.
shockolanu 5 months ago
@shockolanu ..yes, the DNA does not represent CULTURE. But dominant people of Macedonia from Slavic settlement VI AD during first Balcan war was Slavic ( admitted and new Thessaloniki Mayor). Greek colonization of Macedonia begin after first Balcan War, with the Greeks and other nations people (called Magyars) to reduce the dominance of the Slavic , and begin with the genocide of Slavs until 1948 .. It is a fact, is no territorial aspirations, but right of exiled indigenous Slavic population
dimges 5 months ago
@dimges
Constans II conquered "Sclavinia" in 656-657, "capturing many and subduing".
785, Constantine VI conquers the Sclaviniae of Macedonia ('Sclavenias penes Macedoniam')
Basil the Bulgar Slayer, Macedonian Emperor of Byzantine Empire was not Slav.
At the start of the second millennium, he took on his greatest adversary, Samuel of Bulgaria.
The Battle of Kleidion was a disaster for the Bulgarians.
The Bulgarians resisted until 1018 when they finally submitted to Basil II's rule.
In your face!
shockolanu 5 months ago
@dimges
Actually, in 1948 many refugees from Greece were obliged by Tito to change their names, in order to be accepted in Yugoslavia.
If you are Slavs, you are not Macedonians.
If you are Macedonians, you are Greeks.
shockolanu 5 months ago
@dimges
Basil the Bulgar Slayer was Macedonian emperor of the Byzantine Empire. It is him and people like Cyril and Methodius whom sparked the Macedonian renaissance of Medieval Times. At that time, the Bulgars and Sklaveni existed and they had no connection with Basil.
At the time of the Ottoman occupation, the entire region belonged to the Byzantine Empire - Greece.
Speaking about DNA... Thracians are Ionian Greeks that migrated in 2000 BC from Asia Minor. Illyrians the same (from Troy).
shockolanu 5 months ago
@dimges
Pelagonians came from Crete, where they neighboured the Dorians. Later, they became again neighbours, during Macedon.
The Macedonians and Pelagonians never fought, just like they never fought against Epirus.
But they constantly fought against Illyrian invaders whom were supported by the Paeonians.
Alexander I of Macedon proved his Hellenic heritage and since then, the Macedonians have been considered Hellenic people.
Alexander III had Hellenic ancestry from both parents.
shockolanu 5 months ago
@dimges LOL !!!!
I still wait for the meaning of the word μακεδονια......
p.s : if you are μακεδονας , then i am E.T !!!! LOL
TalosGreekRobot 5 months ago
antic Macedonians was mixed from Dorian, Thracian and Illyrian ..
IV-V century
Robbed by the Huns and Vizigothes.
VI century
Assimilation of the ancient population of Macedonia by the Slavs (Macedonian Slavinii).
dimges 6 months ago
@dimges ha haha,,,hey....read history and learn that the ancient Macedonians, as the real ones that still exist ARE the Dorians, Read history, its easy :)
socratis904 6 months ago
Most MAcedonians have their comments blocked. Way to go on the dialogue.
The point is, morons, that even if he wasn't Greek - and that is a big even - Alexander aspired to the Greek ways he adopted the Greek culture and even had Greek tutors. Essentially everything about him was Greek. If he was Macedonian, he clearly wasn't proud of it.
Atheeizm 6 months ago
@Atheeizm, Personally as owner of the this chanel i never block any message,now if you accept the Slav bulgarians as Macedonians its your thing,You try to state something but you fail, because first your opinion is the opinion of nobody as history is somebody, and secondly what are you talking about do you know ?
socratis904 6 months ago
@socratis904 From what I have studied, I have concluded that he was Greek. My point was of a different tone. Try and understand what I was conveying.
Atheeizm 6 months ago
@Atheeizm sorry, can not understand!
socratis904 6 months ago
alexander the great was ALBANIAN he spokes very well albanian language im sorry for you greek and macedonian but the ALEXANDER WAS ALBANIAN
AlboThe 6 months ago
@AlboThe really? prove it and if you do notprove it then you are a ...chickennnnnnn ha ha ha ha ha !
socratis904 6 months ago
@AlboThe you are a chicken a ? still havent replay to me :(
socratis904 6 months ago
alexander was greek not only because of his blood not because anything else but he was speaking greek thought with the greek way and died with the greek honour..... he didn't speak any kind of skopian language.... GREEK DAMMIT he was teached about homer (the one who wrote odyssey and ilada) he WAS GREEK DAMMIT achiles the rolemodell of alexander was GREEK .....FUCK YOU GUYS HE >> WAS GREEEEEEK ..... its like i say ....hitler was from china.... or hitler was from africa.....
bigpafa 6 months ago
Alexandar the great is Macedonian
Apokalips0 6 months ago
@Apokalips0 ofcourse and He WAS Macedonian, nobody said something else , the question is what a Macedonian was and is and what you are!
socratis904 6 months ago
@Apokalips0 can you proof it?
bigpafa 6 months ago
Alexander The Great is Born of Jules ,July Cancer KING of Our Milky-Way Galaxy Seen Easily by Naked Eye in July Zodiac. Alexander The Great speaks to the KING of the Summer Zodiac NOW, Alexander was Born on July 20th 356 B.C.E. Alexander did NOT Corrupt like ALL the rest of you Sinners when given POWER. Alexander The Great Gave All "EQUAL REPRESENTATION & WELCOMED ALL BABYLONIAN PEOPLE &ASIA MINOR PEOPLE INTO HIS GREAT GREECE DOMINION DEMOCRACIES SOCIALISM EQUAL DISTRIBUTIONof WEALTH FOR PEOPLE
Jules7892 7 months ago
Alexandros was Greek to the bone.
Gonzoidzz 7 months ago
Alexander the Great was obviously Greek.
bg02261989 8 months ago