B-24 Crash

[woofdogmeow]

all you need to do is look at the wings skin it bends up and the peels back this indicates it was a flak hit from below. a bomb would have bent the panel down not up.

[hatebreederish]

Great..

[NutzerYOu]

that was not a bomb that was a non explode flag grenade

[crpdst2003]

reccomend Stephen Ambrose's "Wild Blue Yonder" has alot of info of incidents and history of B-24 crews...glory hounds were the 18's 5000 more were made, they were capable of over 300 mph and carried much more of a load....closing mid Atlantic gap was critcal and it took B-24's to do that...;.B-29's were barely operational and full of bugs... we couldn't wait for them...

[GhostofCicero]

I used to have a box full of photos taken at this base. Photos of the bomber's nose art, the airmen etc. I left it with my Dad when I moved. Unfortunately when he died his evil wife took everything so they are probably lost forever.

[TheLimbReaper]

@GhostofCicero I'd be looking up that evil wife and her family for those photo's.

[raf1231D]

I know the specific of the incident cuz my Dad was in the B-24 following & about 500 ft higher. I've a copy of the mission rpt , the MACR (missing air crew rpt), talked w/members of my Dad's crew & met/talked w/the Bombardier in the B-24 flying in front of the BRIEF. I all the footage & stills of the incident retrieved from the Nat. Archives and additional eye-witness reports. Lt. Custer & my Dad were in the same class & shipped out together. It was a flak shell and I have all the proof.

[elsocio231]

it was a freandly bomb lm sure of that.

[magicpowification]

The debris trajectory is definitely upward, and a bomb could not have caused that.

[twinstu50]

This B-24M-15-CO , Serial number 44-42058 was with the USAAF 7thAF, 494th BG (H), 867th BS.

It was named 'Brief' (or ) 'The Brief'.

It took off from the island of Angaur, (part of the Palau group of islands) , on a mission targeting Japanese Anti-Aircraft positions located on KOROR, on May 4th, 1945. It was shot down by Flak./A.A

The wreckage lies just south of Koror at position 7', 20'N 134', 29E.

[BJBFOREST]

The Ball turret man probably had the best chance of survival in these incidents as he would just open the hatch, point the guns to the front and he would be sucked out.

[raf1231D]

You need to check your B-24 facts. Once in flight the only way in & out of its ball turret (belly) was from inside the plane AND the ball was lowered/raised by the waist gunners. Check out the Collings Foundation's B-24 if you get a chance.

[neomuttley]

Hi,

Actually, on a Sperry2 turret. You could bail while the turret was lowered. The escape/entrance hatch can be positioned far this. You're correct about raising/lowering, & being dependent on the waist gunners. Turret gunnerscouldpullthishatchopen,­&throw ingearwhileonthetarmac(on B17s).Inflight,aB24gunnercould­getoutthisway.Unlesshewasreall­yasmallguy,though.Hewouldntbea­bletofitachestchuteintherew/hi­m.Onecouldbepasseddowntohimthr­oughthesmalleremergencyhatchlo­catedovertheammobelts.

[raf1231D]

You win. I'm not going to argue with you about. My comment is based on what I was told by the belly gunner in my Dad's crew in the Pacific. One of the waist gunner said basically the same thing -- if they were going down, the waist positions were suppose to get the belly man up and out. Sorry I can't tell you right off what kind of turrets were on thier planes. I'd have to do some digging thru my research papers.

[neomuttley]

Sorry,

Wasn't trying to show off, or argue. Sperry is the manufacturer who won the bidding. Most planes used their turrets, to my knowledge (especially late in the conflict). If you google them. You'll find diagrams & such. Collings sells a DVD (B17 Flying Legend?) that gives you a tour of each station. Like many, I've always dug the ball turret. I was very disappointed I couldn't crawl in one on the tarmac. They made their money off me.

[BJBFOREST]

I thought my facts were OK, as I got the info from a ball turret gunner who flew with the RAAF. If you were with in the turret then it was easy to get out. The members restoring the B24 in Werribee Australia, informed me that compared to the B 17 the B 24 was an awkward plane to bail from.

[tubbymarshall]

SPIRALLING not spralling, sorry.

[tubbymarshall]

chances of crew escape=NIL. the B24 was notorious for difficulty in escaping. virtually impossible when spralling. the fortunates that did survive a falling B24 often said that they didnt know how they got out. to the crew of this particular aircraft, R.I.P.,and RESPECT.

[DrZ28]

there is a vid with this footage in and alot of other ww2 plane footage and with the mad world song. any one know of this vid? cant find it any place now. it´s one of the sadest clips on youtube.

[north005]

It's definitely a flak hit. You can see the anti-aircraft exit wound on the top of the wing a split second before the flames burst through. Also, bombers flew tight formations to avoid dropping on each other.

[michaelwright999]

I agree flak hit for sure, Its amazing anyone got out. or did they ?

[raf1231D]

@michaelwright999 the plane carried a crew of 11. Only 1 parachute was seen exiting the aircraft. According to common knowledge on the island, 4 crew members were in the plane when it fell, 2 were found dead in the wreckage, 2 were thrown clear into the water alive & unconscious. There is a mass grave in the Long Island National Cemetery, Farmington, NY containing the remains recovered from a pit on Koror & identified as the 11 crewmen of the 'brief".

[holyjoe722]

@raf1231D Actually, there are only 10 crew standard on a B-24 (4 officers & 6 enlisted): Pilot, Co-pilot, Navigator, Bombardier, Flight Engineer/Top Turret, Nose Gunner, Ball (belly) Turret, Tail Gunner, and 2 Waist Gunners. On occasion, additional officers would ride along for inspection purposes but this was not a daily occurrence. If this flight was carrying 11, the 11th would have been along solely for observation and not considered crew.

[Hermand1973]

antiaircraft or engine explotion

[fenderJ16]

I believe the "hatch" opening might be due to the prop hitting the side of the aircraft as the wing folded in?

Could be wrong but that's what it looks like to me.

[voldpilot]

I had a comment from vino49scooter who says that the B-24 was over the Pacific so I guess that Lt Walsh (the only survivor) must be wrong, he thought they were over Lugo in Italy - it just shows how inaccurate navigation can be ! wow. but maybe you are thinking of a different B-24

as Black Nan was 44-49710

[the82spartans]

Wow!

All this time I had believed the bomber's wing was hit by a stray bomb from the bomber above it.

Thanks.

[spitfire262]

The bombs went behind the aircraft

[terminator363]

Guys pause the video fram by frame and you can see that the bombs are behind the B-24, and underneath the aircraft and on the wing you can see it get cut (i think it maybe FLAK)

[OleYanks]

The history channel slowed it down and you can see the bomb go thru the wing. Happened too fast to notice.

[AHMUZIK]

Ive been having this discussion on this same footage on another youtube post. It is not a bomb. There is film footage of a bomb downing an American bomber like this, and you can see the bomb frame by frame and in regular speed video. Those bombs did not move so fast that you could not see them falling. This is a flak hit.

[photox]

at 0:33 you see the bombs BEHIND the aircraft being dropped by another plane (beyond it). those are the same bombs that the camera sees when it pans down. thus they are not on the closer side of the aircraft, but falling beyond it. it has to have been flak.

[voldpilot]

This was B-24L 44-49710 of the 464th BG over Lugo,Italy Apri10,1945 Pilot Lt Col James Gilson, one survivor Lt Ed.F.Walsh Radar Bobardier was thrown thru open bombay and was POW for a few days until WW2 ended. A/C was "Black Nan" due to Black "N" in white square. Direct flack hit took out the mainspar the survivor wrote a report. Pilot had offered to stand in for the usual pilot so he could complete 35 missions and go home, how sad. God bless those brave boys let's respect them you guys.

[cluegoo69]

wow howd u figure all that out?

[twinstu50]

Thank you for your information, clearly, you have done some extensive 'homework'.

You are absolutely correct as to the cause of this bombers demise,- FLAK.

I am a trained Anti-Aircraft gunner, (Bofors 40MM) and without doubt, the flak burst Upwards, as FLAK always does, as explained to me by a WW11 bomber crewman, an Australian on B-24 Liberators, Gorrie Airstrip, Northern Territory, Australia.

At 00:34-36, a hatch opensbehind the cockpit roof, any ideas?.

[voldpilot]

thanks twinstu50, my dad met Lt. Walsh in Italy and made notes from Walsh's first hand comments. I can't make out the hatch opening, but there is an escape hatch just where you mention, maybe one of the crew made a good attempt to get out, Walsh noted he was pinned to the bomb bay support braces for about two complete roll-overs then found himself flying free, he was one of three who wore a back type chute as he had to go to the open bomb bay after a drop.

[Marauder0090]

Liberators had a hatch in that position.

Flight engineer/top turret gunner sat just below it.

[twinstu50]

To: Marauder0090.

Thanks for that info. The flak /exploding fuel tank(s) produce an upper wing skin 'tear', or rip, for about 4-6 freet, the damage runs about 2-3 feet from the wing root to just near the #2 engine, parallel to the leading edge.

I just wonder what the whole story is, regarding this B-24, and the fate of the crew.

Hmmm.

[Marauder0090]

To twin:

at this stage of the war the 15th AF had distinct elevator markings for ID from above..not present on this a/c, nor are squadron ID codes for the 8th AF or cowl paint.

I cannot make out anything on the one shot of the rudder..too blurry..nothing under the wing either.

I would almost think this is a 7th AF or 5th machine...just by the fact it is unmarked to a great extent.

I have flown in a 'J' and just on my own...I would be surprised if anyone got out.

[Marauder0090]

Im sorry I just took a better look and it is a 7th AF machine..the a/c 0:24 and the burning lib are the same aircraft..I slowed both shots down (now my eyes are crossed...494thBG/867HBS

you right about the damage..had to be flak..and there are fuel lines in that part of the wing...the transfer pump is mounted on the Bomb Bay ceiling

[neomuttley]

Hello,

I'm fairly informed about these planes. The Davis wing was well-known to buckle/flame like this. A FLAK burst didn't even have to hit it. A nearby concussion from the blast was enough. The Lib' had a crew of ten. It was very cramped in there. In a spin, w/centrifugal force? It was very hard to impossible to get out. Remember the amount of equipment the crew was wearing. The tight spaces they would have to get through. As well as all the spent brass piled on the floors.

[BJBFOREST]

Tend to agree. Was infromed by crew members that often you would not wear your chute until you had to jump, except for the ball turret gunner who used the chute, being different type to the chest chutes, as a cushion to support their backs when in the cramped turret. The rear gunner often kept his chute just outside the turret in the main body. Try getting out of the turret and putting it on whilst the plane was spinning.

[neomuttley]

@BJBFOREST,

In parting, you might liek this bit of trivia. There was a tail gunner on a B17 in ETO. It was against regs to use extra body armor on flights, as the planes were already over-loaded. This guy would build a cocoon for himself from flak vests in the tail. On a mission, an 88 round went off right @the tail section. The gunner was engaging a fighter coming up on their six. He was so busy firing, he didn't notice. The 88 blew the tail section off! He looked back to see nothing but air.

[selfatrophy]

Wow, what an incredible image! Thanks for sharing

[selfatrophy]

Thanks for the link.

Not spam, morons!

[tubbymarshall]

the b24 was a notoriously dificult aircraft to escape from by the accounts of surviving aircrew. this sort of damage would mean a spin and possibly zero escapes. very sad. only very young aircrew.

[MarsFKA]

Anti-aircraft fire. I have this clip on a DVD, and a frame-by-frame shows the hit coming from underneath.

[penumbra155]

If it was a bomb dropped from an aircraft overhead, even if it was falling at terminal velocity, you probably would see it, even if only a blur. I suspect that was a freak, lucky (depending on which side of the muzzle you're on) shot from an 88MM FLAK gun..

[Godsinwar]

Coitados, dificilmente escaparam. As B-24 ("vacas voadoras") vieram depois das B-17, num tempo com pouca resistência anti-aérea, o que fazia com que voassem baixo para acertarem os alvos com precisão.

[xtomx321]

yes...it was a bomb

[riflelord2]

if a bomb hit the wing their'ed be no plane left so it must be flak a lucky shot too

[allnations31]

it takes time for a bomb to arm itself. its wont explode the time it left the aircraft.

[ashikagaProdDesign]

Definetely not flak.

Bomb fell on wing.

ASH

[sisserou32]

It was flak. The bombs you see are in the background.

[cobra10908]

dude we all saw the bombs get closer to the liberators wing then there was the bomb that hit the wing dead center which shredded all support to the wing causing it to fold in on itself...

[terminator363]

Yes but, DID YOU SEE THE BOMB ACTUALLY RUPTIORING THE WING? THE EXPLOSION CAME FROM UNDERNEATH.

[pudransemarikas]

i think it was a bomb from one of the planes above ,, lol good one yanks

[roaklin]

Accidents happen. It is a bomb from a higher plane, someone is out of formation. If you pause the video at the moment of impact you can see its a 500lb bomb, it passes clean through and then the fuel tank explodeds as the wing having lost it's intergity folds.

[m93dape]

look at 0:34 you can see a small hole in the wing where it is going to explode

[hotbella1993]

The B-24J that was lost on this mission was hit by flak, the bombs that you can see falling in the clip are from a B-24 that was of to his right out of view.

[roaklin]

Wrong the bomb is one the wrong side of the aircraft to be from that plane. It is a bomb, pause and you see it just before impact and it passed clean through just before the wing buckles and explodes.

[DailyBrusher]

Yes, if you review this w/high res monitor you can see bombs falling from above into the wing.

[Wingdoss]

Makes you wonder who was at fault? Which pilot of the two planes drifted over, or under, the other? Though the pressure for tight formation flying was immense.

[Auggie56]

It's never been proven to my knowledge, that it was bombs.. I just saw a video that said it might have been flack. Someday the video will be digitally studied.

They think Glenn Millers small plane, that was flying over the channel, may have been struck by a bomber dumping it's load of bombs.

[StreetSkater456]

yeah it looks like another plane dropped its bombs through the wing, either that or flak hit it.

[daffee360]

Heard that the b-24s fuel tank was very near the wings, making it catch fire alo

[VEWenneker]

That B-24 scne...I have seen in very, very slow motion. What happened is that th B-24 bomber above it dumped 5 bombs through this lower B-24. 4 on it right side wing and one through the right wing.

[PGA1975]

what happens to this B24 at he 33 second of this film? whats the problem with his wing?

[dzanicjasmin]

Well it looks like it got hit by a friendly bomber from above but on the other hand that would have caused a bigger explosion. I think it might be the Japanese AA.

[killingamps]

The B-24 was an great bomber in that it carried the heaviest load of the ETO bombers, and had a huge range. It's faults: It had a very weak wing structure due to it's design--one 20mm hit from a fighter could be enough.

 Too, that design limited the B-24's ceiling,and at high alt, the plane "mushed" and was tough to fly in formation. German pilots, when faced with the choice of attacking the B-24 or the B-17 would ALWAYS attack the Lib. Fortress pilots had a word for the B-24: "Escort"

[Wingdoss]

So the B-24 could carry a heavier load than the Lancaster ?????

[killingamps]

No, sorry...when I said "ETO", I was being US-centric. The Brit's Lancaster was a much better bomb truck then the Liberator, but I would rather be in a B-17, if I had my druthers.

[Wingdoss]

I think most of the heavies had their individual uses and strengths. The B-24 was an excellent bomber for when range was a major factor.

Did you hear about the B-24 exchanging broadsides with an FW Condor over the Atlantic as they raced side-by-side? Stunned all the onlookers in the convoy below.

[killingamps]

That B-24 was knocked down over Italy. That is stock footage used in many places.

[nolifemerc]

any chutes?

[killingamps]

No chutes, sadly...loss of a wing means a terrible spin will ensue, the men inside would have been trapped by the centripetul force.  At least it was quick...did you ever read about what happened to the crew of the "Lady Be Good"? If not, do a Google search...very, very sad.

[terryjohn]

YES GOOD FILM ON IT TOO.1969

tj

[zero1973]

Amazingly a few did live.

Google - "Staff Sgt. William J. Mulholland famous photo 506th b-24 blogspot"

Youtube won't let me post the link.

[sepreioth]

a b-24 gets hit by another b-24! then blame of the japs!great!

[rajcso]

That is why you should never allow a

Jewish American Princess to pilot your B-24.

[wallager57]

This aircrafts destruction is documented in the book "Log of the Liberators. MathieuJA is correct. There were no survivors. Also it happened in Europe, not the Pacific as the film would indicate. A sad end to 10 brave men.

[wings210]

This B-24 was hit by a bomb dropped from another B-24 above it. Just a sad think that happens during war.

[zice39]

that narrators voice is extra CRISPY.

[MathieuJA]

The B24 was hit by the flack I think.

[terryjohn]

yep b24 were flyin low 800ft attacks on oil italy 43

TJ

[bionicmisfit]

I was on Babelthuap in the Palauans back in '64 and you could still see plenty of wreckage of Jap zeroes, tanks, US landing craft all shot to pieces...tail sections of aircraft sticking out of the jungle...it was still a mess.

[volleyballjones]

Thanks for posting this video. Great view of B-24 in flight.