The joker kills the mob members outside the courthouse and bruce is in awe that hes still alive and walks after him in total disbelief. he even takes a shot to the coat and doesnt realize it. the sign that lets u know he knew that he meant to kill jack napier is when he goes home and is sitting with alfred and says" i just found out jack napier is still alive"
when he is holding jack he at first instinct grabs him out of mercy to save him, has a change of conscience and decides to drop him. i know a lot is up for interpretation but look at the scene when bruce first sees the joker.
No, Batman knew that was the man who killed his parents. When he watches the tape of his house surveillance he hears them say "jack Napier is clearing out axis chemicals". So he goes there and tries to stop the plans.
@sanderflop he didn't kill him at the end, Batman tied his leg to a gargoyle and it broke. Batman didn't know the gargoyle was going to break. Thats like saying Spiderman murdered the Green Goblin by jumping out the way of the glider blades.
It was not until Joker said "Ever Danced With the Devil in the pale moonlight" at Vicki's apartment thathe comes to realise as that was what he said after he shot his parents.
LOL people actually thinks he dropped him on purpose? the "recognition" was oh shit im bout to drop this guy. Although this Batman killed people he didn't intentionally drop him.
@TheUnrealStudios In this it's actually supposed to be a depiction of the toned-down/noble but still dark Batman. Burton's true intention was to make the drop seem like a genuine accident on Batman's part.
But before he got toned down, yeah, Batman fucked shit up and it was better that way.
@IArtGod well it was that he failed to save him in the comics so i agree with that. I just have a hard time listening to fans say "oh batman would NEVER try to murder a person!" ummm lol he kills by the truck load in burtons universe. :P yeah i hear what your saying for this specific case. i think when i wrote the comment i was in the mindset that if your a criminal batman will try and save you but he won't lose sleep over killing a guy if it comes to that.
I don't know.Even though they do have leather gloves if you take a closer look you'll see that batman is only holding his fingers with his fingers.No matter what you wear it is impossible to hold someone like that.Maybe of he held both of his hands.And not just that.Batman is known in comics to be right-handed.He's holding Napier with the left hand.
Drastic change in expression? Not really, but I can see what your saying. They are both wearing leather gloves though you'd think that would be a pretty good grip he shouldn't have slipped. The glove should have came off if anything, but you can tell Batman wasn't trying his best.
on one side theres batman: the man who even shows mercy
and on the other bruce: who wants him dead. he was conflicted but didnt drop him.
if you look closely batman is holding napier by the back of his glove and 0:18 napier lets go of the bar meaning all his weight is being help by batman and his leather glove, batman could of help him easily but his confliction between either saving or dropping him left him lingering for so long the glove slipped and batman dropped him.
@sexpistols015 He didn't come to realize that until later into the movie, so no he had no personal reason to drop Napier at this point.
Also, it's pretty apparent that he didn't do it on purpose, he dropped him because Napier took his hand off of the bar and stopped supporting himself leaving Batman to struggle with the entirety of his weight with only one hand. After that Napier's hand just slipped from Batman.
Really? I was around 5 when I watched this and I knew what happened. And you guys need a video to see this? And it isn't even concluded (the video said it was unclear), I thought it was obvious that Batman lost his grip and didn't have enough strength to hold on any longer
hahaha you guys makes me laugh, it's a movie so, in the script batman wideley opens his eyes 'cause he can feel how jack is slipping from his hand, and, then jack lose his grip and falls.... but if the actors trying to do his part makes looks like is droping itself or something is irrelevant. batman cannot hold any longer the hand of jack and hi fells into that stuff so....
@mcdizzle999 Because in the comics, there's two possibilites, two explanations.
The first one being the original, that the "Red Hood" jumped into the stuff and came out as the Joker. The second one being that the Joker was the only innocent man of all the robbers and fell in on accident, one of the many things that happened that day which drove him totally nuts.
@mcdizzle999 Because it is this is some bull shit that that peto piece of shit Tim Burton pulled out of his ass like all of the shit he calls movies....
Ledger was an amazing actor, and he did great job with the Joker, but telling the truth, for me the best Joker was Jack Nicholson's. Sorry if you disagree.
See I don't know. Didn't he really only know who he was until after he was turned into the Joker? The scene when he asks if he "ever danced with the devil " line in Vicki Vales apartment seems like that's when he first recognizes him for who he really is. But then again the guy playing Batman in this movie is like 5 foot 2 inches. I saw the suit when I was 11 and I was bigger then it was. So maybe he just got tired of holding him and dropped him and that's the scene they took.
BATMAN JUST PICKED THIS CLOWN OFF THE GROUND. YOU THINK HOLDING HIM UP THERE WOULD BE A PROBLEM. HE LIKE I REMEMBER YOU ASSHOLE, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO "HELPED" ME BECOME WHO I AM. IM HERE TO RETURN THE FAVOUR. OOOPS, I DROPPED YOU.
You think after this incident the Joker would've learned that his fatal weakness was the inability to pull himself up with his own body strength and worked on that lil' detail. Tsk tsk.
Actually, I think his eyes widening was because of this: He saw Gordon on the tape that if they caught Napier, they could get his boss. So he was probably trying to pull him up, but wasn't able to.
His expression wasnt "hey, I know this dude!" , imo, it was "Oh, sh*t, he's slipping! Not good!"
0:20 Look at his eyes. Batman looked pretty damn scary in that shot. I'd shit myself if I came across somebody wearing a suit like that giving me the same look. And LOL @ people trying to analyze this scene. Get over it. I read the script and it mentions nothing about Batman recognizing Jack Napier.... until the last quarter of the film.
naipers glove slipped off and i hate hate how the newest cartoon explains it the old cartoon says this happend but the joker was just dressed up as the red hood same thing happend though
@paddonc You mean Brave and the Bold? Because that's how it's always happened in the original comics. That's the only solid thing we know of Joker's origin, that he had the identity of the Red Hood before he took his dip in the acid and beceme the Joker.
Micheal Keaton's Batman didnt have any hang ups about killing people. He broke people's bodies and threw them off buildings. He droped Jack becuase Jack was a scumbag.
that doesnt explain why chris nolan rewrote jokers story. what about harvey dent becoming a white man from black billy dee williams i hated chris for that.
@Bronk0Nagurski im not here to play the race card, brother. I just think that since Tim Burton started the 1st Modern Batman movie series, Chris should have just stuck with the same story line. You never explained the Joker part.
@CMKify I think he 're-wrote' joker because he was making a diferent movie. That Batman with Keaton and Jack was Tim Burtons. He / the movie studio was looking for a different slant.
@CMKify I don't believe he was black in the Animated series. I'm no Havey Dent expert, but I preatty sure he was white in the Cartoon and I KNOW he was / is white in the comic book. Hollywood likes to make money above all else (lets emphissize BUSINESS in the term show business) which leads to often confusing issues for people.
It also sort of seems as if though after Napier's landing, Batman looks as if though he's satisfied at :33, and I agree with the sentiment that Batman's expression did change from strain to a bit of recognition, and it really it looks like Batman swiftly pulled his hand upward when Napier lost his grip. I have to agree with ACE0HUNTER, though. Wayne didn't realize Napier was his parents' killer until the apartment scene.
jesus christ, they both wear gloves, and they're holding at the finger area of the hand. the best way to hold someone from falling is grapple the wrists.
No explanation needed: gravity wins, joker's pissed, and batman tried. The End.
I think you may be looking too much into this. Michael Keaton is a decent actor, but I'm not sure that THAT much subtlety is really present. I think that it's just an odd expression made when he wasn't sure exactly how to emote. However, to be fair, taking the shot in and of itself, it does seem deliberate.
Napier tries to shoot batman, and Batman ricochets the bullet off one of his gauntlets and his slices through both Napier's cheeks. He falls over the edge and batman tries to pull him up but his hand slips and he falls into the chemicals. Jack survives and tries to get reconstructive surgery from a lowly doctor. The chemicals and the surgery both drove him insane and created a huge grin because the nerves in his cheeks were messed up due to the bullet.
people, it's 100% confirmed batman did NOT drop joker here on purpose. the script itself says batman lost his grip. you clearly see this in the film anyway, i don't know why you would think so hard and make a theory on this. if you don't believe me, you can either A) get the blue-ray release of the film which has a segment in the booklet within that says this or B) look up the script online which is easy. batman did NOT recognize joker until he said the moonlight phrase. fact
Analysis of Thomas ( ? ) Zapruder's filming of JFK's assasination couldn't have been more thorough ( ! ), which DOESN'T neccesarily mean that I go with this analysis.
That's what I try to tell folks. Everytime I show an action flick, some of my peeps are like, that's too fake or that wouldn't happen in real life. I'm like 'that's the whole point...it's fiction. This was created by people who had a good imagination and loved superheroes'.
Idk... Everyone seems to want their movies in real world now... And its stupid. Like there's certain aspects that need to be realistic. But when it comes down to something like this, people just need to let reality go...
the way i see it, Batman intended to help Napier, but when he grabbed his hand, he thought "is it worth saving this guy?"---and that slight instant of thought let him accidently slip Napier out of the hand.
but hell--its hard to tell under Keaton's non existant dialogue.
Batman has been around since 1939 and since then pop fiction characters have evolved into a form of modern mythology. Things are changed periodically as time passes and as it is told again and again variations occur.
When Bob Kane and Bill Finger conceived Batman they did not intend to have his parents murderer be caught. It was to be the one case that he could not close, the tragedy of the hero, in where despite all the justice he brings he can never bring it to himself.
God bless Chris Nolan, Bruce Timm and Paul Dini who brought us a mature Batman on film.
While growing up, people who have never seen the animated series or read any of the comics thought I was crazy when I spoke of Batman as a serious character.
Actually growing up in the 90's, because of Tim Burton and Frank Miller, my peers and teachers (Including the comic book fans.) thought that Batman was only purille juvenile trash that was all style and no substance.
Only until I show the nay-sayers the Animated Series, do they like him.
yeah it was. do you think theres going to be a batman 3? but without the joker? I think harley quinn teaming up with poison ivy would kick ass. and the warner bros said that filming started in january. i'm so excited x3
Hahaha. But jokes aside, I kinda agree. I liked the first issue of DK2 although I thought it was too different from TDKR. It laid out a very interesting yarn, that could've been a classic under the right execution.
Superman, Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman forced to work for Luthor while Batman resists them? I was sold.
I loved the coloring for being unique and that got the most derision.
However when it reached it's immature conclusion, I felt I read a comic made by a 12 year old.
and it really is quite funny, intentionaly funny. unlike allstar wich is unintentionaly funny, but then again, i'm not sure if thats suposed to be a joke or not.
i think it's obvious batman didn't mean to drop him, maybe that look of recognition is "hmm does this guy look familiar?" but i know for CERTAIN, at the :31 mark that look in his eyes is: "oh shit.."
I dont think Bats meant to drop him..but then again..Batman agrees with Joker at the end of the movie, if u recall when Joker says "you made me! when you dropped me in that vat of chemicals..and that wasnt hard to get over"..but like..Tim Burton & Sam Ham's version of Batman kills villians, and this story is alot different than the comics/cartoons..so who knows, its confusing stuff lol
Batman didn't drop Jack, he fell, the whole point of the scene is to make it so that Jack believes Batman dropped him.
Batman has no reason to Kill the Joker yet, he doesn't realise who he is until the Joker and his thugs burst in on Bruce and Vicky in her appartment. When Joker says "have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight" it triggers Bruce's memory as to who killed his parents.
Bingo! I always wondered by Bruce Wayne said, 'what?' when Joker recited that line. Then I realized why when Bruce thought back to the night that his parents were killed.
@ACE0HUNTER Batman did know who he was. Bruce Wayne knew all along that Jack Napier killed his parents, thus he was motivated to drop him once he let go of the bar. It's when they're in the apartment, that Bruce realizes that Jack came back as Joker.
@Vandal316@Vandal316 But Batman didn't drop him... it is also explained that Bruce didn't know that Jack Napier killed his parents as it shows him realising it in the apartment scene ("Bruce is alarmed. A memory fragment clicks." - Taken from script V) it is after this that Bruce asks Alfred for his parent's police file (which states that is unsolved) this is when Bruce becomes certain.
That just wouldn't be logical though... the memory was triggered by the words "have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight" something that was unique to Jack.
@ACE0HUNTER True it is unique to Jack Napier, but something like that does occur in real life. Bruce Wayne was stressed, not sleeping as we saw when he was looking at a map and asked about his parents profile before Alfred says he didn't want to spend his remaining years grieiving for the Waynes.
It is possible that given the stress and the cold line by his new enemy, his mind plays a trick on him. That can solve it for those who didn't like the Joker being the murderer
When it comes down to it, we know that the Joker was the killer because it was written in the script that the Joker was the killer. Your theory is so far outside the box that it would damage the story and be pointless, when it comes down to it it's bad writing.
As for those who didn't like Joker as the murderer: deal with it, it's just a movie!
"Shows recognition"? WTF? He recognizes Joker first in front of the Town Hall. That a BS video. Tim Burton said he made it unclear whether he dropped him or not. Fuckin fan made videos.
While BatMan kills in the original sources this uses (DC 27-37), for the greater good of other's safety or the heat of the moment, I don't think it's so.
You will see that he strugles and shakes quite a bit. Even the eyes could be strain. However, even if he noticed, then it was only due to shock of realizing who he was finally.
He could not focuss and then he lost grip. He didn't know weather to try or not then.
BatMan does not murder as idiots want to put it. Even in those original sources was he alittle more extreme. The first appearance of batman in any comics, which is on the roof stopping two thugs, had him drop one off a roof.
That was issue 27, the first ever and first panel, like how it's the first scene of the film. They combine it with "Night of the Stalker" as well for the openning and to what they did to get the loot. Also, the second time batman comes out is the chemical factory as well!
the filmakers back then didnt realize this, they just assumed that these are times where you can fisnet a couple of guys and toss them infront of the city police department. violent times call for violent measures
Jack lowers his arm then raises it to get momentum. Batman realizes he can't hold Napier without both hands, and you see that look of recognition, that Jack's going to fall. Then he starts pulling harder, and starts shaking. He loses some of that pull when he reaches down for Jack's hand, and the countermotion of Napier reaching up with his hand, pulled the other one out of Batman's grip.
thank you scene scrutinizing peoples XD
thelunarghost 1 week ago
I came here for an explanation...instead I was just told in text what I was looking at.
CorporalHotdogs 1 month ago
The joker kills the mob members outside the courthouse and bruce is in awe that hes still alive and walks after him in total disbelief. he even takes a shot to the coat and doesnt realize it. the sign that lets u know he knew that he meant to kill jack napier is when he goes home and is sitting with alfred and says" i just found out jack napier is still alive"
batdog2112 2 months ago
when he is holding jack he at first instinct grabs him out of mercy to save him, has a change of conscience and decides to drop him. i know a lot is up for interpretation but look at the scene when bruce first sees the joker.
batdog2112 2 months ago
No, Batman knew that was the man who killed his parents. When he watches the tape of his house surveillance he hears them say "jack Napier is clearing out axis chemicals". So he goes there and tries to stop the plans.
batdog2112 2 months ago
it still not explaned why he killed him at the end
sanderflop 2 months ago
@sanderflop he didn't kill him at the end, Batman tied his leg to a gargoyle and it broke. Batman didn't know the gargoyle was going to break. Thats like saying Spiderman murdered the Green Goblin by jumping out the way of the glider blades.
spidermansidekick1 1 month ago
You can see clearly at the drop that batman was holding jack by the fingers, so it's clear that jack slipped.
CorileousBane41 2 months ago
It was not until Joker said "Ever Danced With the Devil in the pale moonlight" at Vicki's apartment thathe comes to realise as that was what he said after he shot his parents.
thestring5 3 months ago
i remember when i was chilling with my friend, and he asked: whats your favorite expression
i said: the one batman makes
MASTER1LINK 4 months ago
Batman: Yes I dropped that dude. Why? Darling I don't have to anwser you I'm Batman. :)
DarthStarscream1138 4 months ago
@DarthStarscream1138 So Batman tried to kill Napier because he was possessed by Batwoman? XD
tomontherun99 3 months ago
Comment removed
DarthStarscream1138 4 months ago
LOL people actually thinks he dropped him on purpose? the "recognition" was oh shit im bout to drop this guy. Although this Batman killed people he didn't intentionally drop him.
SandyPotatoSalad 6 months ago
Seriously? We're debating on whether or not Batman tried to kill Jack? You all do realize Burtons Batman kills people.....he killed ALOT of people.
TheUnrealStudios 6 months ago
@TheUnrealStudios In this it's actually supposed to be a depiction of the toned-down/noble but still dark Batman. Burton's true intention was to make the drop seem like a genuine accident on Batman's part.
But before he got toned down, yeah, Batman fucked shit up and it was better that way.
IArtGod 4 months ago
@IArtGod well it was that he failed to save him in the comics so i agree with that. I just have a hard time listening to fans say "oh batman would NEVER try to murder a person!" ummm lol he kills by the truck load in burtons universe. :P yeah i hear what your saying for this specific case. i think when i wrote the comment i was in the mindset that if your a criminal batman will try and save you but he won't lose sleep over killing a guy if it comes to that.
TheUnrealStudios 4 months ago
I don't know.Even though they do have leather gloves if you take a closer look you'll see that batman is only holding his fingers with his fingers.No matter what you wear it is impossible to hold someone like that.Maybe of he held both of his hands.And not just that.Batman is known in comics to be right-handed.He's holding Napier with the left hand.
91939markoz 6 months ago
Drastic change in expression? Not really, but I can see what your saying. They are both wearing leather gloves though you'd think that would be a pretty good grip he shouldn't have slipped. The glove should have came off if anything, but you can tell Batman wasn't trying his best.
88riddlemethis 6 months ago
he half help him.
on one side theres batman: the man who even shows mercy
and on the other bruce: who wants him dead. he was conflicted but didnt drop him.
if you look closely batman is holding napier by the back of his glove and 0:18 napier lets go of the bar meaning all his weight is being help by batman and his leather glove, batman could of help him easily but his confliction between either saving or dropping him left him lingering for so long the glove slipped and batman dropped him.
plasm2 6 months ago
Comment removed
plasm2 6 months ago
Didn't Napier kill batman's parents? Thats why he dropped him.
sexpistols015 6 months ago
@sexpistols015 He didn't come to realize that until later into the movie, so no he had no personal reason to drop Napier at this point.
Also, it's pretty apparent that he didn't do it on purpose, he dropped him because Napier took his hand off of the bar and stopped supporting himself leaving Batman to struggle with the entirety of his weight with only one hand. After that Napier's hand just slipped from Batman.
TheVampireEd 6 months ago 9
@TheVampireEd I agree. It took Batman until later on in the cave to figure out who Joker was (when he had the flashback to his parent's murder).
AFBoy2084 6 months ago
i think that in a split second, he recognized Napier, but was really trying to save him only to lose his grip in the process.
futuremovieactor 6 months ago
i thought he dropped him because he was too heavy
flubberface08 7 months ago
Really? I was around 5 when I watched this and I knew what happened. And you guys need a video to see this? And it isn't even concluded (the video said it was unclear), I thought it was obvious that Batman lost his grip and didn't have enough strength to hold on any longer
MNiTFTW 7 months ago 4
hahaha you guys makes me laugh, it's a movie so, in the script batman wideley opens his eyes 'cause he can feel how jack is slipping from his hand, and, then jack lose his grip and falls.... but if the actors trying to do his part makes looks like is droping itself or something is irrelevant. batman cannot hold any longer the hand of jack and hi fells into that stuff so....
yeuskas1 7 months ago
how come in batman arkham asylum in the character bios it says the true identity of the joker is unkown
mcdizzle999 7 months ago
@mcdizzle999 Because in the comics, there's two possibilites, two explanations.
The first one being the original, that the "Red Hood" jumped into the stuff and came out as the Joker. The second one being that the Joker was the only innocent man of all the robbers and fell in on accident, one of the many things that happened that day which drove him totally nuts.
sonic8005 7 months ago
@mcdizzle999 Because it is this is some bull shit that that peto piece of shit Tim Burton pulled out of his ass like all of the shit he calls movies....
RogueWatcher4 7 months ago
@RogueWatcher4 although I disagree, that comment made my day with its hilarity
flubberface08 7 months ago
today i found out jack napier is the joker but why in world are there so many ways the joker came to be like this comment if you think it is starange
TheDarthmaul247 7 months ago
what's the point of this video? besides to be annoying and nitpicky
dinkhead1 7 months ago
Ledger was an amazing actor, and he did great job with the Joker, but telling the truth, for me the best Joker was Jack Nicholson's. Sorry if you disagree.
marcellogobbi 8 months ago
@marcellogobbi I certainly don't disagree, but I am appalled at the number of people who care about this. In the words of Jack Napier, "Jesus!@#$%"
LouisLambert 8 months ago
@marcellogobbi
Sacrilege! Mark Hammil is the best joker. Is, was, and forever will be.
Jcolinsol 7 months ago
See I don't know. Didn't he really only know who he was until after he was turned into the Joker? The scene when he asks if he "ever danced with the devil " line in Vicki Vales apartment seems like that's when he first recognizes him for who he really is. But then again the guy playing Batman in this movie is like 5 foot 2 inches. I saw the suit when I was 11 and I was bigger then it was. So maybe he just got tired of holding him and dropped him and that's the scene they took.
xanos4225 8 months ago
BATMAN JUST PICKED THIS CLOWN OFF THE GROUND. YOU THINK HOLDING HIM UP THERE WOULD BE A PROBLEM. HE LIKE I REMEMBER YOU ASSHOLE, YOU'RE THE ONE WHO "HELPED" ME BECOME WHO I AM. IM HERE TO RETURN THE FAVOUR. OOOPS, I DROPPED YOU.
HUEJOHNSON 8 months ago
0:15 - Me gusta.
UncleJunkyard 9 months ago
strain and eyes wide look the same.. batman has one expression: batman
UtterlyMoot 9 months ago 22
Maybe Batman dropped him because he recognized that face. It was the same guy who killed his parents.
ChrisMolyneaux93 9 months ago
I was thinking Batman was like "damn, you're really heavy"
juliabohemian 10 months ago
I took it that Batman subconsciously recognized Napier as the killer of his parents, and that's why he dropped him.
Leatherbubba 11 months ago
@Leatherbubba he finds that out later in the film afterthis point
yohb7 11 months ago
You think after this incident the Joker would've learned that his fatal weakness was the inability to pull himself up with his own body strength and worked on that lil' detail. Tsk tsk.
LtColonelTzu 1 year ago
So in a sense, we don't really know. But he is disciplined crime fighter. I don't know.
BTW Darth, if you still want to check out
some of the old "superpower" example
clips we had from every terrible superhero
show of the 70s! I've uploaded them to
my "new" channel. (just click on the marknew91,
don't bother subscribing since you've seen them all ...)
marknew91 1 year ago
lol he probaly knows jack killed his parents and he wants revenge
darthvenom30567 1 year ago
@darthvenom30567 He didn't know it yet.
xK0VI 1 year ago
what's funny though, is that the real Batman could hold a fat man, none of this would have happened. If they got the real batman in the movie.
Valkilmer89 1 year ago
@stargatemunky
- Hold It right there!!!!
-who is this guy?
-I dont know. But, until we find out, keep a lid on it
PmacArpium 1 year ago
this guy showed less emotion than vin diesel
StargateMunky 1 year ago
GOD DAMN IT, WE HAD HIM!!
mrjustin5 1 year ago
Poor, poor Jack. If only Batman had a tool with him that he could've used to pull Jack up. Like a batarang with a rope, or something.
JMMPR24 1 year ago
Actually, I think his eyes widening was because of this: He saw Gordon on the tape that if they caught Napier, they could get his boss. So he was probably trying to pull him up, but wasn't able to.
His expression wasnt "hey, I know this dude!" , imo, it was "Oh, sh*t, he's slipping! Not good!"
JMMPR24 1 year ago
@JMMPR24 you do have a point...
huatist 1 year ago
0:20 Look at his eyes. Batman looked pretty damn scary in that shot. I'd shit myself if I came across somebody wearing a suit like that giving me the same look. And LOL @ people trying to analyze this scene. Get over it. I read the script and it mentions nothing about Batman recognizing Jack Napier.... until the last quarter of the film.
MisterMeddle 1 year ago
0:19 "Argh, and I thought watching my parents get gunned down was heavy..."
Secundas 1 year ago
naipers glove slipped off and i hate hate how the newest cartoon explains it the old cartoon says this happend but the joker was just dressed up as the red hood same thing happend though
paddonc 1 year ago
@paddonc You mean Brave and the Bold? Because that's how it's always happened in the original comics. That's the only solid thing we know of Joker's origin, that he had the identity of the Red Hood before he took his dip in the acid and beceme the Joker.
Clickyable 8 months ago
@Clickyable no i mean under the reed hood and brave and the bold and batman beyond its so gay but this is how it happend
paddonc 8 months ago
00:48 Batmans eyes looks evil as shit.
JRock005 1 year ago
@JRock005 Bale only looks angry, Keaton looks scary.
Mercenary78 1 year ago 2
@Mercenary78 who the f is bale thats jack nicholson and micheal keaton
paddonc 1 year ago
@Mercenary78 sorry nvm i didnt realize you were talkin dark knight to lol
paddonc 1 year ago
so you're suggesting that Batman may have for a split moment recognized his parents killer and may have subconsciously dropped him? hmmmm
knytrydr73 1 year ago
Micheal Keaton's Batman didnt have any hang ups about killing people. He broke people's bodies and threw them off buildings. He droped Jack becuase Jack was a scumbag.
majikcarpet727 1 year ago
that doesnt explain why chris nolan rewrote jokers story. what about harvey dent becoming a white man from black billy dee williams i hated chris for that.
CMKify 1 year ago
@CMKify ERT...How about the fact that Harvey Dent IS white and was re-cast black.
Bronk0Nagurski 1 year ago
@Bronk0Nagurski im not here to play the race card, brother. I just think that since Tim Burton started the 1st Modern Batman movie series, Chris should have just stuck with the same story line. You never explained the Joker part.
CMKify 1 year ago
@CMKify I think he 're-wrote' joker because he was making a diferent movie. That Batman with Keaton and Jack was Tim Burtons. He / the movie studio was looking for a different slant.
Bronk0Nagurski 1 year ago
@Bronk0Nagurski/ wasnt harvey dent black also in the batman cartoon series? it seems like hollywood like to confuse some of us.
CMKify 1 year ago
@CMKify I don't believe he was black in the Animated series. I'm no Havey Dent expert, but I preatty sure he was white in the Cartoon and I KNOW he was / is white in the comic book. Hollywood likes to make money above all else (lets emphissize BUSINESS in the term show business) which leads to often confusing issues for people.
Bronk0Nagurski 1 year ago
@Bronk0Nagurski // confusement like on my part right? lol. well said.
CMKify 1 year ago
It also sort of seems as if though after Napier's landing, Batman looks as if though he's satisfied at :33, and I agree with the sentiment that Batman's expression did change from strain to a bit of recognition, and it really it looks like Batman swiftly pulled his hand upward when Napier lost his grip. I have to agree with ACE0HUNTER, though. Wayne didn't realize Napier was his parents' killer until the apartment scene.
DaveSkellington 1 year ago
jesus christ, they both wear gloves, and they're holding at the finger area of the hand. the best way to hold someone from falling is grapple the wrists.
No explanation needed: gravity wins, joker's pissed, and batman tried. The End.
sparktank 1 year ago 2
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I think you may be looking too much into this. Michael Keaton is a decent actor, but I'm not sure that THAT much subtlety is really present. I think that it's just an odd expression made when he wasn't sure exactly how to emote. However, to be fair, taking the shot in and of itself, it does seem deliberate.
blackjack0202 1 year ago
Comment removed
blackjack0202 1 year ago
Hmm, I always thought Batman dropped him on purpose.
fecalmatterofdeath 1 year ago
Napier tries to shoot batman, and Batman ricochets the bullet off one of his gauntlets and his slices through both Napier's cheeks. He falls over the edge and batman tries to pull him up but his hand slips and he falls into the chemicals. Jack survives and tries to get reconstructive surgery from a lowly doctor. The chemicals and the surgery both drove him insane and created a huge grin because the nerves in his cheeks were messed up due to the bullet.
BROKENHOUSEFILMS 1 year ago
Dark Knights better.
BrotherAJ213 1 year ago
@BrotherAJ213 Dark Knight sucked ass. The original 89 Batman will always be the best. Heath Ledger was horrible.
stafflvr 1 year ago
@stafflvr ahahahahahahhahahaha dude u need u'r eyes and hearing examined
Marazuga 1 year ago
@BrotherAJ213 yeah, but this batman is just classic as hell.
jkjl234 1 year ago
batman looks fat
dagmaugsten 2 years ago 9
@dagmaugsten your fat
subzer76 1 year ago
@dagmaugsten if you really want to see a fat batman, search "how to batman". You can thank me later
sheffieldmvp 10 months ago
@dagmaugsten fatman?
TheRoundTableXIV 9 months ago
doesn't make sense, bruce recognises napier near the end, not in the beginning.
DevilSilver33 2 years ago
batman was leing acens the lege cuse look down saying oh no
stormshadow227 2 years ago
to me batman is pulling him up.....but he thinks "SHIT AM LOSING THIS GUY" which is why his eyes widen then jack falls and the joker is born
KILLERJOEM 2 years ago 2
people, it's 100% confirmed batman did NOT drop joker here on purpose. the script itself says batman lost his grip. you clearly see this in the film anyway, i don't know why you would think so hard and make a theory on this. if you don't believe me, you can either A) get the blue-ray release of the film which has a segment in the booklet within that says this or B) look up the script online which is easy. batman did NOT recognize joker until he said the moonlight phrase. fact
FreeStyleStories 2 years ago 2
FreeStyleStories:
Analysis of Thomas ( ? ) Zapruder's filming of JFK's assasination couldn't have been more thorough ( ! ), which DOESN'T neccesarily mean that I go with this analysis.
knoxvilleguy2 2 years ago
it was a slip but then again burtons batman does kill so idk.
shadowmatt18 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Shit flick!!! If it was acid meant to be, he should have died or have several anomalies caused by it through his whole body...not only the face...
WellingtonSS85 2 years ago
Who cares if a movie is realistic? You watch a movie to escape the real world, and be entertained.
ick13 2 years ago 23
That's what I try to tell folks. Everytime I show an action flick, some of my peeps are like, that's too fake or that wouldn't happen in real life. I'm like 'that's the whole point...it's fiction. This was created by people who had a good imagination and loved superheroes'.
sabre926 2 years ago
Idk... Everyone seems to want their movies in real world now... And its stupid. Like there's certain aspects that need to be realistic. But when it comes down to something like this, people just need to let reality go...
ick13 2 years ago
I couldn't agree with you more, ick.
sabre926 2 years ago
He was wounded in the face, the acid went into those wounds.
Christiannck 2 years ago
hahahaa...terrible excuse from director/screenplayer...weak acid!!!
WellingtonSS85 2 years ago
the way i see it, Batman intended to help Napier, but when he grabbed his hand, he thought "is it worth saving this guy?"---and that slight instant of thought let him accidently slip Napier out of the hand.
but hell--its hard to tell under Keaton's non existant dialogue.
Phenomeon2009 2 years ago
I'd drop his ass whether or not he killed my parents.
Whyavier 2 years ago
Whatever...according to "Batman Begins", it was Joe Chill who killed Bruce's parents, not this "Jack Napier"...so, who's right?!
WellingtonSS85 2 years ago
Batman has been around since 1939 and since then pop fiction characters have evolved into a form of modern mythology. Things are changed periodically as time passes and as it is told again and again variations occur.
When Bob Kane and Bill Finger conceived Batman they did not intend to have his parents murderer be caught. It was to be the one case that he could not close, the tragedy of the hero, in where despite all the justice he brings he can never bring it to himself.
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
Yeah, nice!!! Hail Mr. Nolan("Batman Begins"...)...down the comic and erroneous Batman '89's "Joker-killed-Bruce's parents"...
WellingtonSS85 2 years ago
God bless Chris Nolan, Bruce Timm and Paul Dini who brought us a mature Batman on film.
While growing up, people who have never seen the animated series or read any of the comics thought I was crazy when I spoke of Batman as a serious character.
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
"people who have never seen the animated series or read any of the comics thought I was crazy when I spoke of Batman as a serious character"
That's what people thought before Frank Miller or Tim Burton got a hold of Batman.
Cancun187 2 years ago
Actually growing up in the 90's, because of Tim Burton and Frank Miller, my peers and teachers (Including the comic book fans.) thought that Batman was only purille juvenile trash that was all style and no substance.
Only until I show the nay-sayers the Animated Series, do they like him.
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
I've never met a comic book fan who thought Frank Miller wrote "purille juvenile trash".
As for your peers and teachers, they're all dumb-asses.
But yes, Batman The Animated Series is the shit, even to this day. That series should not have ended so quickly.
Cancun187 2 years ago
I would have maybe accepted that ridiculous argument if I heard it post 2001.
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
And which "ridiculous argument" are you referring to?
Cancun187 2 years ago
The argument I refer to is that Frank Miller's Batman is puerile-juvenile-trash.
Before 2001, it would have been ridiculous. But after DK2, he seemed to lose his sanity as well as his ability to tell a decent story.
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
i think millers work is funny. almost a parody. i like it. dk2 was terrible, though.
OffTopicWithOFLW 2 years ago
no it wasn't.
QTPatootiee 2 years ago
@QTPatootiee dkr2 wasnt terrible? its been a few years since i read it....but from what i remembered it sucked hard. i may need to reread it sometime
OffTopicWithOFLW 2 years ago
Oh you're talking about the book? Lol nvm then xD
QTPatootiee 2 years ago
@QTPatootiee yeah! lmao! frank millers "the dark knight strikes again"....fucking sucked.
"the dark knight returns" was great, but DKR2 was horrible.
if youre talking about tim burtons "batman returns", i really liked that film. even with batman running around killing people.
OffTopicWithOFLW 2 years ago
@OffTopicWithOFLW I'm talking about the dark knight ;O
QTPatootiee 2 years ago
oh. yeah, the dark knight was pretty good. i dont really like christian bale as batman, but it was very good nonetheless
OffTopicWithOFLW 2 years ago
yeah it was. do you think theres going to be a batman 3? but without the joker? I think harley quinn teaming up with poison ivy would kick ass. and the warner bros said that filming started in january. i'm so excited x3
QTPatootiee 2 years ago
@QTPatootiee i dont know...im sure there WILL be a 3rd one....but i doubt that ivy would fit into that series. i would like to see bane personally
OffTopicWithOFLW 2 years ago
u did hear it post 2001
a89dc 2 years ago
Sure did! After DK2 Frank Miller lost his mind.
He was only eccentric previously.
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
DK2's underrated.......... all star batman and robin is rediculas tho
a89dc 2 years ago
I can't believe someone would call the God damned DK2 series underrated. I now have heard every God Damned thing.
I may have accepted the God Damned argument that it was "not that bad," but never would have expected God damned "underrated."
Are you dense? Are you retarded?
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
no........... its just my god damned opinion lol, people just dont get dk2, its brilliant
a89dc 2 years ago
Hahaha. But jokes aside, I kinda agree. I liked the first issue of DK2 although I thought it was too different from TDKR. It laid out a very interesting yarn, that could've been a classic under the right execution.
Superman, Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman forced to work for Luthor while Batman resists them? I was sold.
I loved the coloring for being unique and that got the most derision.
However when it reached it's immature conclusion, I felt I read a comic made by a 12 year old.
DoctorWeeTodd 2 years ago
and it really is quite funny, intentionaly funny. unlike allstar wich is unintentionaly funny, but then again, i'm not sure if thats suposed to be a joke or not.
a89dc 2 years ago
DK2 was pretty cool, it didn't have the realism and sanity of DKSA, but it was cool in its own way
Bladerunner93 2 years ago
According to the comics, it indeed was Joe Chill. Only 'Batman' has a young Joker kill the Waynes.
CreepyBastard55 2 years ago
it later transpired joe chill didnt kill Bruce's parents
rayblack2004 2 years ago
None of this film are canon, so it's a pointless question.
Ze0do0Gas 2 years ago
Comment removed
ick13 2 years ago
This theory would work.
However, it doesn't.
Its not until MUCH later on in the movie when Bruce Wayne finally realizes that Napier was the man who killed his parents.
At this point in the movie, he doesn't know who Napier is.
martinlamaletois 2 years ago
i think it's obvious batman didn't mean to drop him, maybe that look of recognition is "hmm does this guy look familiar?" but i know for CERTAIN, at the :31 mark that look in his eyes is: "oh shit.."
patrickblake 2 years ago 2
Very interesting theory.
Lozimia2 2 years ago
It's Jack's Nicholson fault, he was too fat, Batman couldn't hold him so long.
Boanerges18 2 years ago 31
@Boanerges18 Especially considering the Joker was skinny in the comics.
MegaLink08 1 year ago
@Boanerges18 LOL
darky5k1987 1 year ago
@Boanerges18 LMAO wtf
TheRoyce2000 1 year ago
I dont think Bats meant to drop him..but then again..Batman agrees with Joker at the end of the movie, if u recall when Joker says "you made me! when you dropped me in that vat of chemicals..and that wasnt hard to get over"..but like..Tim Burton & Sam Ham's version of Batman kills villians, and this story is alot different than the comics/cartoons..so who knows, its confusing stuff lol
djkrueger6 2 years ago
It was suicide.
satoneks 2 years ago
Batman didn't drop Jack, he fell, the whole point of the scene is to make it so that Jack believes Batman dropped him.
Batman has no reason to Kill the Joker yet, he doesn't realise who he is until the Joker and his thugs burst in on Bruce and Vicky in her appartment. When Joker says "have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight" it triggers Bruce's memory as to who killed his parents.
ACE0HUNTER 2 years ago 32
Exaaaactly!
djkrueger6 2 years ago
Bingo! I always wondered by Bruce Wayne said, 'what?' when Joker recited that line. Then I realized why when Bruce thought back to the night that his parents were killed.
sabre926 2 years ago
@ACE0HUNTER Batman did know who he was. Bruce Wayne knew all along that Jack Napier killed his parents, thus he was motivated to drop him once he let go of the bar. It's when they're in the apartment, that Bruce realizes that Jack came back as Joker.
Vandal316 1 year ago
@Vandal316 @Vandal316 But Batman didn't drop him... it is also explained that Bruce didn't know that Jack Napier killed his parents as it shows him realising it in the apartment scene ("Bruce is alarmed. A memory fragment clicks." - Taken from script V) it is after this that Bruce asks Alfred for his parent's police file (which states that is unsolved) this is when Bruce becomes certain.
ACE0HUNTER 1 year ago
@ACE0HUNTER Or causes him to put a transference onto Jack, thereby making a false memory
darky5k1987 1 year ago
@darky5k1987
That just wouldn't be logical though... the memory was triggered by the words "have you ever danced with the devil by the pale moonlight" something that was unique to Jack.
ACE0HUNTER 1 year ago
@ACE0HUNTER True it is unique to Jack Napier, but something like that does occur in real life. Bruce Wayne was stressed, not sleeping as we saw when he was looking at a map and asked about his parents profile before Alfred says he didn't want to spend his remaining years grieiving for the Waynes.
It is possible that given the stress and the cold line by his new enemy, his mind plays a trick on him. That can solve it for those who didn't like the Joker being the murderer
darky5k1987 1 year ago
@darky5k1987
It may occur in real life, but this is a MOVIE.
When it comes down to it, we know that the Joker was the killer because it was written in the script that the Joker was the killer. Your theory is so far outside the box that it would damage the story and be pointless, when it comes down to it it's bad writing.
As for those who didn't like Joker as the murderer: deal with it, it's just a movie!
ACE0HUNTER 1 year ago
"Shows recognition"? WTF? He recognizes Joker first in front of the Town Hall. That a BS video. Tim Burton said he made it unclear whether he dropped him or not. Fuckin fan made videos.
Frye666 2 years ago
He recognized the Joker as Jack Napier outisde of City Hall.
In the scene, he saw the man who killed his parents when he looked at Jack Napier.... He didn't know that it really was him until a later scene.
ZombieMan04 2 years ago
At first, I thought he just let go..... But, I guess he didn't o_0
TheKr13 2 years ago
he dropped that mother fucker. no question
mgordon980 2 years ago
While BatMan kills in the original sources this uses (DC 27-37), for the greater good of other's safety or the heat of the moment, I don't think it's so.
You will see that he strugles and shakes quite a bit. Even the eyes could be strain. However, even if he noticed, then it was only due to shock of realizing who he was finally.
He could not focuss and then he lost grip. He didn't know weather to try or not then.
silenceofthehills 2 years ago
BatMan does not murder as idiots want to put it. Even in those original sources was he alittle more extreme. The first appearance of batman in any comics, which is on the roof stopping two thugs, had him drop one off a roof.
silenceofthehills 2 years ago
That was issue 27, the first ever and first panel, like how it's the first scene of the film. They combine it with "Night of the Stalker" as well for the openning and to what they did to get the loot. Also, the second time batman comes out is the chemical factory as well!
silenceofthehills 2 years ago
I always thought it was clear that Batman lost grip of Jack. I guess, looking back at it, it does seem a little confusing.
RikeeTheKlown 2 years ago 2
well batman doesnt kill, just doenst save when its necessary. like in batman begins "i wont kill you, but i dont have to save you".
so i knew that he didnt throw him in the chemicals, also you can cleary see he tries grabbing him again but not in time :(
CaryErnst 2 years ago 3
the filmakers back then didnt realize this, they just assumed that these are times where you can fisnet a couple of guys and toss them infront of the city police department. violent times call for violent measures
DrOmega 2 years ago
Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight?
Jyrow 2 years ago
Jack lowers his arm then raises it to get momentum. Batman realizes he can't hold Napier without both hands, and you see that look of recognition, that Jack's going to fall. Then he starts pulling harder, and starts shaking. He loses some of that pull when he reaches down for Jack's hand, and the countermotion of Napier reaching up with his hand, pulled the other one out of Batman's grip.
BuckMuscles 2 years ago 2
he was the killer of his parents in that movie
josatinho 2 years ago
He didn't know he was the killer until much later in the film. That could not have been the motive, however I still think he he slipped.
Jyrow 2 years ago
Obviously slipped. It was later when Batman found out that Joker was the killer of his parents, which made the batman a psychokiller.
luutnantti111 2 years ago
Exactly.
Jyrow 2 years ago
to me Jack started reaching down with his free hand. Batman may have thought he was reaching for a gun
Troop3r666 2 years ago
HE WAS SMILING! AH HA! I knew he meant to do it! LOL :P
OkMistahJ 2 years ago