6-14 Salvation Through Water Baptism ? - Church of Christ

[tgbotg]

Cornelius wasn't baptized with fire. That's the fire of hell. Then explain John 3:36 (NASB) and 2 Thess 1:8 and all other passages that use the phrase "obey the gospel." The thief died before the Great Commission was given. There was an allowance there since the command was not yet given.

[kaleb798]

1. This guy does a lot of misrepresenting the historical facts about the restoration era. It made me ill. Also - the fact that some have left the church and entered into other groups is not the fault of those who have stuck with the truth of God's word.

2. His 11 arguments can be easily defeated. He acts like the individuals he debated were kids or were not able to handle them. Most preachers I know would handle those issues with little to no problem.

[ydnar0591]

CoC says H2o Baptism is Equal to Faith & repentance in importance. Yet Paul separates the Gospel and H2o baptism in 1Cor 1:14-18. H2o & Gospel don't fit.

Jesus saw H2o dispute coming:

13Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:

14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. John 4:13-14 "The Living Water"

[thomla7]

If you're in the anartic YOU'RE REALLY outa LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[christdiedonthecross]

This man is preaching the truth! COC needs to be set free!

[Love6653]

Big Difference in The Miraculous Gifts of The Spirit Mr. Morey and The Gift of The Holy Spirit.That Explains 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 we have The New Covenant Perfect Written word Sir You Sir are Sorely Deceived. 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 You are doing Poorly Morley. 1 Peter 3:21 is So hard to Understand Right? I Wonder Why Peter said Baptism Saves You since according To You is Does not?? Mathew-John Describing Jesus B4 the Cross is Old Testament. Mathew 5:17-18 Mathew 7:12. NewTestament acts2

[cynthiatweedle]

If it makes you feel good to make fun of scripture, surely there is something wrong with your faith in it.

[cynthiatweedle]

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.  Romans 6:4

[cynthiatweedle]

In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. 1 Peter 3:20-22

[Snowtiger76]

In (1Peter 3:20-21) Peter is encouraging persecuted Christians to continue in the faith because the wicked will be punished as they were in the days of Noah and the faithful will be saved from this destruction. Baptism is in the likeness of this (Romans 6:5). Baptism witnesses salvation for Noah found favor with God before he was told to build the Ark (Genesis 6:8).

[cynthiatweedle]

True. Baptism also means being "buried" WITH Christ into death and being "raised" through the glory of the Father. This is not something that can be done ALONE or without faith or it would truly be meaningless. "With" means just that.

[Snowtiger76]

Metaphorically or literally? I was speaking Metaphorically in terms of the saving significance of baptism and literally as a testiment to the faith which saves you. It is not faith plus water, but faith alone.

[cynthiatweedle]

It was God who saved me. Not the faith this poor human could muster nor all the water in the world could alone save me.

[Snowtiger76]

I appologize, but I am having a hard time following you. Were you saved before you were baptized?

[cynthiatweedle]

Maybe this will help you to understand what I believe.

.... by the power of God, who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. 2 Timothy 1:8-10

[cynthiatweedle]

So are you asking me to determine when God bestowed HIS GRACE upon me by something I have done? By faith I believed that God would so this and was buried WITH CHRIST through baptism into death and that I will also live with him.

Now if we died WITH CHRIST, we believe that we will also live with him. Romans 6:8

[cynthiatweedle]

I believe the purpose of buried with Christ through baptism is to be UNITED with Christ.

If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.  Romans 6:5

[Snowtiger76]

I am glad you got baptised! But you had faith before you were baptized if I am not mistaken. So through Christ you were saved because you were baptised in the spirit which then you manifested in the flesh through water baptism. At least I hope thats why you were baptised. If so then praise be to God!

[cynthiatweedle]

After re-reading scriptures, it appears that baptism of the Holy Spirit for GIFTS was done for Gentiles in Acts 11 so that they could see that "God has also given the Gentiles the privilege of repenting of their sins and receiving eternal life."

Before that in Acts 2 while Peter was preaching to the Jews he said "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

[cynthiatweedle]

And "Then Peter continued ..."Save yourselves from this crooked generation! and "Those who believed what Peter said were baptized and added to the church that day—about 3,000 in all."

[cynthiatweedle]

In Acts 8:12 "But now the people believed Philips message of Good News concerning the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ. As a result, many men and women were baptized".  Verses 14-17 "When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted Gods message, they sent Peter and John there. As soon as they arrived, they prayed for these new believers to receive the Holy Spirit.

[cynthiatweedle]

The Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit."

[Snowtiger76]

Yes the Gentiles received the Holy Spirit in (Acts 10:44-48) because God saw their hearts (Acts 15:7-9). Now (Acts 2:38) must be interpreted according to the Greek rule of grammar. I have an explanation of that on my channel. In (Acts 8:12) the Samarians were saved through Christ, testified of it in baptism, then received the power of the Holy Spirit as a witness to the testimonies of Phillip, John, and Peter so others would not credit Phillip with the miracles he performed. Peter told the

[Snowtiger76]

Simon the scorcerer that he could not buy this power with money but only through faith in Christs atonement (Acts 8:19-24). Essentially these miracles had to be clarified by two or more witnesses in order to set the story straight. Anybody who thinks they may earn the Holy Spirit are only deceiving themselves. God wanted unity amongst the Samarian believers and not division (1 Corinthians 1:11-17).

[Snowtiger76]

I would like to further add that soon after the Samaritians accepted Phillips message, there was divisions among the people caused by no other then Simon the scorceror. And ee wonder why we do not see the power of God at work within the church. today. It's pretty darn obvious!

[cynthiatweedle]

This is all too true. But it is a not for profit deal anyway.

[cynthiatweedle]

This is my understanding. There are two types of baptism. One is receiving gifts through the Holy Spirit and the other is uniting or joining with Christ. I don't find any wording that the baptism of the Holy Spirit joins us or unites us with Christ. It appears to me that the baptism of the Holy Spirit when gifts were received came directly from God not from Christ. The UNITING and JOINING also come from God but in this Christ is IN IT.

[cynthiatweedle]

Also, someone can be saved but not have received the kind of gifts talked about in the New Testament that others can witness.

Listening is a behavior. Believing and having faith are behaviors just as thinking is a behavior. Being baptized is a behavior. But God's grace has nothing to do with our behavior. That's the way it seems to be to me.

[Snowtiger76]

I agree that the gifts of the spirit are not always given upon salvation. I also agree that baptism of the spirit is a behavior while water baptism testifies to the behavior of repentance for the remission of sins. However, I have to disagree with your last post because Christ baptizes with the Holy Ghost and fire (Luke 3:16). Also (Romans 8:9) says that a person is not a Christian unless he has the spirit of Christ within him.

[cynthiatweedle]

I did not go far enough in studying the Holy Spirit, although I did spend several hours, I should have done more before coming to a conclusion. I'm going to put more study into it, but not right now because I got very little sleep last night, and I want to give it my best. Thanks for pointing this out to me.

[Snowtiger76]

Thankyou for your positive attitude. I study the bible all the time, but faith is much more important then mere knowledge. I can tell that you have more faith then I do just by your humble attitude. I am not very humble especially when it comes to debates lol. Thankyou once agian for your kindness.

[nikki2christ]

I've read several of your comments, you pretty kind yourself! Your also well informed, a true bible thumper LOL (like me). God Bless You!

[Snowtiger76]

Thankyou Nikki

[stopplayingchurch]

You misunderstand- the holy spirit is still giving the gifts and yes even diverse kinds of tongues. 1Cor 13:8-13 Paul is using as an example or a model for us to not get caught up in our gifts but rather he is encouragung us to LOVE one another more than to show off our gifts. Our gifts are for others this is what he is saying. In the end all that will last is the fruit of LOVE that does not mean that the spiritual gifts have stopped to given out

[stopplayingchurch]

Praise Your name LORD JESUS!

[jrutled3]

From the very moment you entered this discussion you have done nothing but slander and send false accusations. I sincerely doubt that your actions here have brought any praise to the name of Christ.

I am done arguing with you but, for your sake, will leave you with one remark; you should pay especially close attention to 1 Corinthians 13:4-5.

[stopplayingchurch]

When you read the whole passage of 1corinthian13 you will see Paul is saying that all of the spititual gifts will pass away and that charity or LOVE is the only thing that will remain, infact LOVE is the chiefest fruit of the spirit.

[NZComfort]

Ok, stop? "Paul is saying that all of the spiritual gifts will pass away and that charity or LOVE is the only thing that will remain." But in your previous reply you said, "PAUL DID NOT SAY GIFTS WOULD CEASE HE SAID THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT WOULD CEASE 1Cor13:8-13." Why are you contradicting yourself and the Bible? Also, you don't have to be so rude to the guy! I'm sure you can get your point across without freakin' out!

[stopplayingchurch]

OK SO I GET IT NZComfort and jrutled3 are only two of your screen names.

LOL You are amazing LOL how many screen names do you have?

[NZComfort]

.... Are you serious? We are two different people. I'm a student at Delta State University, Comfort is my last name. Are you paranoid or something??? Do you enjoy readin' Globe? Stop freakin' out!!!!

[jonyrock777]

If your right than knowledge has passed away also. So has knowledge passed away? if not than neither has tounges. Let say your right still than tounges and prophecy has ceased but the other Gifts are still active like word of knowledge, word of wisdom, Ability to do miracles. Because the verse you used does not say " when the perfect comes all the gifts will be gone" just says tounges and prophecy.

[jrutled3]

I can understand how you might get confused. But read 8-10 together. The knowledge that Paul is speaking of is the partial, incomplete knowledge. He says that "we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away." The word "perfect" means complete, mature. Verses 11 and 12 expound on the coming (now here) completion, maturity.

[jonyrock777]

It just makes scense that when christ comes to restore all things that we wont need the gifts therefore "the Perfect wiil come" Well If the bible tells you not to have sex, drink, lie, steal if you obey that you are obeyng the bible but the bible says to desire spiritual gifts and than people come out and say that was for the early church. Just becuase we dont understand the supernatural doesnt mean we should deny it.

[chrismichael1]

Where does wisdom, knowledge or faith come from? These are all mentioned as gifts of the spirit in 1 cor 12..doesn't these come from the word of god...And when you say miracles, what do you mean by it?(example)

[jrutled3]

If it meant "rain" as you suggest, meaning the Holy Spirit, then the word kai would not be used to differentiate the two, meaning that while they are not the same thing, you need on "and also" the other, or "even" the other. They both play an important and equal role, but are not the same.

Many have wrongly interpreted it as meaning childbirth. But that's far from the truth, as you can see from the lexicon definition.

So what else is there but baptism? Nothing else fits.

[longtalltexan63]

No, the translation could have said, truly I say to you, you must be born of the showering rain, even the Spirit....John 7 If any man thirst let him come to me and drink....John 4 I have water for you to drink.....Revelation And he that is thirsty let him come and drink....

Paul said, God did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel...He made a clear distinction between the preaching of the gospel and baptism.

[jrutled3]

The apostle Paul was in no way degrading the importance of baptism. The Great Commission makes it clear that baptism accompanies the preaching of the gospel of Christ. Paul even states that he baptized 3+ people at Corinth. He was grateful, however, that he did not baptize any of the others. They were discipling themselves after the ones who baptized them. He rebuked them by asking, "Has Christ been divided?" You should study 1 Corinthians 1 more thoroughly. Especially verses 14 and 15.

[jrutled3]

No, the translation could not say that. If it did, it would be a mistranslation! That would be disregarding the Greek and translating a completely different word that is not there!

By continuing to argue your incorrect point, you only prove that you have hardened your heart to the point where you reject fact even when it's right before your eyes. The word in John 3:5 is hudor, not huetos. Hudor means natural water, huetos means rain. You can either accept the truth or not. I'm done arguing you.

[longtalltexan63]

The King James does have mistranslated words, you do admit that right? Nothing that takes away from scripture but they are there. For instance, "All power is given me..." The word is authority. King James says virtue came out of Jesus with the woman with the issue...the word was power in Mark 5.

Hardened my heart? You look at it like, "Oh you have placed all your faith and trust in Christ? Oh that's great, but if your not baptized like I say, your hell bound buddy."

[jrutled3]

Not like I say. I have no authority in the matter. But like the scriptures say, absolutely. I can only uphold what has been revealed to us.

If you have truly placed all your faith and trust in Christ, why would you have such an issue with a decree that He Himself placed. Why not be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins?

And I am in no way saying the baptism is the only thing that must be done. All other things are just as important. An unrepentant person is just as lost, immersed or not.

[jrutled3]

I reject out of hand what he claims about "Campbellite" theology of baptism. He pulls this out of his own made-up delusion with no ground in fact. With the exception of John the Baptizer (who had a specific mission from God), there is no scriptural emphasis placed on the baptizer, just the penitent believer's obedience to God through faith. The saving power present in biblical baptism is not the baptizer nor the water. Instead, it's God's work through Christ's death (Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:8-14).

[longtalltexan63]

Notice what you said, out of your own mouth, you just said, THE SAVING POWER PRESENT IN BIBLICAL BAPTISM....Brother the saving power is the blood of Jesus Christ. Faith in what HE DID on the cross, faith in his resurrection. Not faith in what we do. Cart before the horse.

[jrutled3]

I said the power "present" in baptism; not that baptism itself is the power.

It is not our actions that save us, it is Christ who saves us. The grace that God offered humanity through the giving of His Son is free, having already been paid; but it's not without its conditions. Our obedience to Christ requisite for the salvation offered through the shedding of His blood (2 Thess. 1:8), without which there is no forgiveness.

[longtalltexan63]

Now your talking out of both sides of your mouth. You just said if someone has placed their faith in Jesus for salvation, but dies before baptism they are lost. Now you say we're saved by grace. I don't think you know what you believe.

[jrutled3]

No, I am not speaking out of both sides of my mouth, and I know what I believe. It is you who are having trouble understanding what I am saying.

We are saved by grace, because God giving us Christ - the way to be reconciled to Him - is His grace to us. But we have to believe Him, trust Him, and obey Him, in order to call Him our Father. We have to choose whom we will serve. The fact that the option is even there at all, because of Christ and what He did, is the grace that we are blessed with.

[tim1980x]

acts 2:38 1 peter3:21...

[longtalltexan63]

One rendering of Acts 2:38 is Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the Name of Jesus Christ BECAUSE of the remission of sins....I'm a oneness believer, but baptism is not what saves. It's faith in what Jesus did. The emphasis is not on us, but what he did.

[jrutled3]

Your faith in that one rendering is sorely misplaced, friend.

The Greek word eis is the one translated "for" in Acts 2:38. Eis is only ever looks forward, never backward. It can only mean "into," "unto," "toward," or "in order to obtain." Never "because." Peter would have used dia if he were to mean "because of" or "on account of."

Whoever told you "because" is twisting the truth of scripture, forcing it to say what they want it to ... to their own demise and yours (Gal. 1:8-9; Rev. 22:18-19).

[longtalltexan63]

It doesn't take away from the fact that Paul said we are saved by faith. Faith in what? What Jesus Christ did. John 3:3-5...the word for water comes from two Greek words, it means a showering rain. It's talking about the Holy Spirit. Baptismal regeneration is false. You need to really study the book of Galatians, Ephesians 1 and 2, 1 Cor 1, Romans 10....We are saved by grace through faith.

[jrutled3]

We are saved by grace through faith. That is what the Bible teaches. However, what you believe is more correctly stated "save by grace through faith ALONE," which the Bible does not teach.

In John 3:5 the word for water is hudor. It means normal water (of pools, springs, or rivers; waves of the sea; the deluge). If you wish to suggest that we now receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit I would ask you to study Eph. 4:4-6 with Acts 1:26, 2:1-4, 10:44-48, & 11:15-18.

[longtalltexan63]

No I am not suggesting anything. Grace.....

[longtalltexan63]

John 3:5 comes from two different Greek words, not just that one. The other word means a showering rain. John 3:5 is absolutely not talking about baptism and I firmly believe in baptism but that's not what the verse is speaking of.

[jrutled3]

Well, though there are many words in the Greek that can mean "water," or "rain," there is, without a doubt, just one of them used and in that verse, and it is "just that one." The Greek word in this verse is, indeed, hudor. Now, while its root word, huetos, does mean "rain," hudor is distinctly different.

[jrutled3]

"apekriqh Ihsouv, Amhn amhn legw soi, ean mh tiv gennhqh ec udatov kai pneumatov, ou dunatai eiselqein eiv thn basileian tou qeou."

John 3:5, Greek

UDATOV = hudor

Definition

1. water a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools b) of the water of the deluge c) of water in any of the earth's repositories d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted e) of the waves of the sea f) fig. used of many peoples

[longtalltexan63]

Look it up in Strongs. It comes from another Greek Word. Look it up.

[jrutled3]

I already had looked it up in Strong's. As a matter of fact, you are looking at reference 5205, heutos, the root word; not 5204, hudor, which is the word in John 3:5. And the definition quoted below is from Thayer's Greek lexicon. And, incidentally enough, even Strong's Concordance says, "water."

Look up "water" in Strong's. Find the John 3:5 passage and tell me: does it reference to 5205, or 5204? If you don't believe the Greek, or Thayer, maybe you'll believe Strong.

[longtalltexan63]

So what are you saying? That salvation is based on you being baptized and not grace through faith? Do you believe in baptismal regeneration?

[jrutled3]

I do not like that phrase because it's inaccurate. Yes, I do believe a repentant person must be immersed in order to receive forgiveness of sins. But I believe it no more strongly than that one must also first hear and understand the gospel, believe it's message, change their minds, and confess Christ as Lord.

These are ALL "works" in that they require action on the part of the believer. But they all - together - have saving power only because of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

[jrutled3]

"Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism in death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life."

(Romans 6:3-4, NASB)

[jrutled3]

"For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is free from sin."

(Romans 6:5-7, NASB)

It's only unbelievable and difficult to understand if you make it so - and I hope and pray don't do.

[longtalltexan63]

Anyone that believes a person is going to hell unless they've been baptized believes in baptismal regeneration, that the blood is not applied unless you've been baptized. I baptize someone as soon as I can, I don't believe in waiting until family can come and all that, but still, baptism is a result of a converted life. So if a man comes to faith, then gets hit by a bus and dies, your saying he wasn't saved?

[jrutled3]

I hate "What ifs" because the majority of them are posed not by those actually seeking the Truth, but by those wishing to poke a hole in the doctrine upheld by the person they're asking.

If a man gets hits by a bus before he is baptized then yes, he is lost. But by even posing such a question you doubt the power of God to preserve the "truth seeker" until he is saved.

The Bible describes Cornelius as a devout man who believed in God, but it also explains he was not yet saved (Acts 11:14).

[longtalltexan63]

Then answer the question, why did Paul say that God did not send him to baptize but to preach the gospel? Look, I firmly believe in baptism but there is not one verse of scripture that says that baptism applies the blood to your life. We are baptized because we believe, not to attain or earn salvation.

[jrutled3]

Because Paul was chosen by Christ specifically to be the Apostle to the Gentiles. Does that mean that he did not baptize? No. He himself even says that he did. However, the person who does the baptizing is not where the importance lies. That is the message he was conveying to the Corinthians. They were placing their faith in the person who baptized them, not in Who they were baptized into. An error Paul readily rebuked them of.

[longtalltexan63]

So are you Church of Christ or Apostolic Pentecostal?

[jrutled3]

Does it matter what I may be called by others, or that I believe and teach the same gospel revealed in scripture?

If you wish to denominate me - not able to see the church as anything but broken sects of men, at odds with each other - then you may say what you wish. However, the church of the Savior has no formal name. All the names in the NT only described the nature of Christ's church. The name "church of Christ" only shows that the congregation belongs to Christ. I am a Christian only.

[longtalltexan63]

Okay then, where do you go? Are you filled with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues or are you just religious?

[jrutled3]

If you're so keen to know - for reasons I can't figure out - I do attend a congregation who recognizes itself as a church of Christ. I am religious, yes, but spiritual as well.

Do I have the gift of the Holy Spirit? Yes, as promised by Peter on the Day of Pentecost. But do I miraculously speak in foreign languages which I have not learned? No, because miraculous gifts - received through the baptism of the Holy Spirit or the laying on of Apostles' hands - have ceased.

[stopplayingchurch]

That is a lie because I speak in the tongues of angels just as Paul did.

[jrutled3]

Do you have any scriptural reference to where Paul spoke in the "tongues" of angels?

[jrutled3]

Miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit were for confirming the message taught by the prophets and apostles (John 20:30-31). Christ promised His apostles the Holy Spirit so that He would guide them into all truth. The baptism of the Holy Spirit of the apostles did this (Acts 2:1-4); but of Cornelius and his household, it was a sign that the Gentiles were now accepted by God (Acts 11:14-18). The only other way to receive miraculous gifts were through the laying on of apostles' hands (Acts 8:14-19).

[jrutled3]

And the speaking in tongues was not a secret, divine language between God and the person speaking them. The were authentic languages. This gift was granted to to the apostles so that people from far away nations, who were present at Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost, would hear the pure gospel in their native language (Acts 2:4-16). You have a corrupted understanding what what "speaking in tongues" actually was, and what its purpose was.

[stopplayingchurch]

The same Spirit that came moved upon the earth in Genesis, is the same Holy Spirit that impregnated Mary, and it is the same Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Gods spirit is still giving gifts according to measure to men that believe on the name of Jesus.

Why are you trying to refute the Holy Spirit and the gifts He imparts? please PM me

[jrutled3]

It is true that the Spirit is the same, regardless of age (Heb. 13:8). But that in no way establishes that He still empowers men. The power to perform miracles, gifted by Christ and the Holy Spirit, was not for believers, but was to verify their validity (John 20:30), and to bring people to belief (Acts 9:40-42).

And something you overlook is the fact that miraculous gifts, even Paul said, would cease (1 Cor. 13:8-13) when the perfect com,es. The perfect law of liberty (James 1:25) is here.

[stopplayingchurch]

The spiritual gifts are for the believers to edify the body of Christ only the gift of tongues was for the unbelievers 1Cor 14:22

PAUL DID NOT SAY GIFTS WOULD CEASE HE SAID THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT WOULD CEASE 1Cor13:8-13

[jrutled3]

Forgive me, I now know that you're trying to use 1 Corinthians 13:1.

Paul was not claiming that he did speak with the tongues of angels. Notice the small yet significant word "if". He was teaching a comparison of love with all other things; that even if a man possessed all these abilities, but did not have love, they would amount to nothing at all. Notice that verse three says, "if I surrender my body to be burned..." But we learn nowhere that he was burned. He was beheaded, per history.

[stopplayingchurch]

1Cor13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not cahrity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling symbol

Paul clearly sets a parallel between speaking in languages known to man and in the languages of the messangers of GOD(angels).

The language of angels, or tongues can be used in two instances 1.Prayers-praying to God withouth understanding what you are saying 1Cor14:4 or 2.Propheysing in tongues with someone in the congregation that can interpret 1Cor14 26-31

[jrutled3]

Friend, the whole point of 1 Corinthians 12 and 13 is Paul trying to convince them that they were not to seek so readily the gifts that were temporary (1 Cor. 13:8-10), but instead to prepare for the greater gifts that never cease (1 Cor. 12:29-31); and these are faith, hope, and love. Those are the gifts that remain. And among them, love is the greatest (1 Cor. 13:13).

[stopplayingchurch]

Either you are confused or you are lying.

FAITH HOPE AND LOVE ARE NOT GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT. Faith, hope, and love are the fruit of the spirt GAL5:22

The GIFTS of the Holt Spirit are 1Cor8-11

LOVE is the greatest of the fruit of the spirit.

And Yes we are to DESIRE SPIRITUAL GIFTS and the chiefest of the gifts is prophecy, because it edifys the BODY OF CHRIST 1Cor14:1

[jrutled3]

Did you even look at 1 Corinthians 12:31? While I do not disregard that they are indeed fruits of the Spirit, Paul also says in this very verse that they are also greater gifts. Having said that, Paul then moves into chapter 13 describing the "still more excellent way."

[stopplayingchurch]

1Cor13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels...Paul parallels speaking in the known languages of this earth with the heavenly language of Gods messengers(angels) to draw your attention to the fact that If you have all the gifts of the spirit but do not LOVE you brethen you are in disobrdience because the gifts are for the edifying of the church. All the gifts are for the others except the gift of divers kinds of tongues1Cor11:10 that gift is for you to build youself up Jude20

[jrutled3]

Jude was directing his instruction to the collective, universal church (Jude 1-3), not individuals. He was urging the church to be on guard against godless, divisive men (Jude 4) and to continually build themselves up, always seeking the love and mercy of God and Christ (Jude 20-21).

When he commanded them to "build yourselves up," his command was to the collective church, but he placed his emphasis on the personal responsibility of all members to edify and strengthen the entire church.

[stopplayingchurch]

We are all MEMBERS OF THE SAME BODY. The Body is the Church we are its members 1Cor12:20-27

You are a fool or rather you are an SDA Fool

[jrutled3]

Did I ever once say that we are not members of the same body? No, I did not. I also did not, as you tried to do, take one verse out of context. I read the entire book of Jude and interpreted that verse in its context.

I tried to show what Jude actually did say, and yet again you chose to malign me by calling me an "SDA Fool". If you would do your homework on this very same page, you would see that isn't true.

By treating people who disagree with you so nastily, you only discredit yourself.

[stopplayingchurch]

to jrutled3: please stop googling bible references and qouting them from peoples blogs whose credentials and systems of belief cannot be verified or substanstiated in the greek grammeer of the text,especially when said person uses tranliterations inconsistent with the original KJV.

It is clear you have more than one Screen name for YouTube.

[jrutled3]

How it could so clearly be seen I have no idea, because this is my one and only YouTube screen name.

And I do not Google bible references. I have a Strong's Concordance, a Greek New Testament, a Greek lexicon, and four English Bible translations at the ready when I need them. I do consider myself to be a serious student of the Bible. Therefore, I do not need secret screen names to support what I say or do under this one.

[jrutled3]

I have never quoted from blogs. How you garnered that opinion, I would be pleased to know. I am quite capable of studying for myself and coming to my own conclusions. However, when I do wish to appeal to someone else's writings on a matter, I never shy away from crediting the author. I do not take part in plagiarism, nor do I honor those who practice it.

[stopplayingchurch]

Yet Ellen G White Plagarised and you honor her.

Liars will have their part in the lake of fire.Rev 21:8

[jrutled3]

Ellen G. White was a fraud and a false teacher. How dare you accuse me of honoring her.

I have shown you truth and instead of trying to refute it with a sound argument in proper study of scripture, you lower yourself to slandering me? That's very sad.

[stopplayingchurch]

Oh my bad you are a Church of Christ Cultist

LOVE IS NOT A GIFT OF THE SPIRIT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT LOVE IS A GIFT OF THE SPIRITin 1Cor12:31 LOVE IS THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT NOT A GIFT.

[jrutled3]

Instead of trying to have a decent discussion about the word of God, you keep calling names and hurling derogatory remarks at those who disagree with your views.

If you insist on acting so immaturely, irrationally, and hatefully, I have nothing more to say to you.

[stopplayingchurch]

to jrutled3 you are a liar and a plagarist you typed "tongues of angels paul" into the google search bar and you copied someone else work

LIAR!

[jrutled3]

Call me a liar and believe what you want, but you believe a lie that you concocted out of your own depraved mind. For some reason you are going out of your way to attack me and are only hurting yourself.

I ask that you quit slandering me. You claim yourself to be Christian but are acting far out character to truly be one.

[jrutled3]

And may I ask, what do you intend to mean by saying the King James Version is the original?

If you mean to say that the KJV is the original language that the apostles wrote in, or that it was the original English translation of the Bible, I would have to say that you're sadly mistaking on either; whichever view you uphold.