100 Years: Here's Why McCain is Wrong

[dickims]

good video my friend.

[gamutman]

You seem to have a problem following the thread of a narrative. The point about the agreement coming after the original agreement that stripped Japan of its military was relevent to the comparrison that McCain was making to the situation in Iraq. He is the one comparing apples and oranges. Tony Snow didn't evn employ the Japan model because is has zero analogs.

[chrisbord]

Only relevant in a superficial way because you're assuming present conditions in Iraq will reign for 50 years, gautmain. The country will stabilize, violence will decline precipitously and the government will ask for our long term presence. Assuming some idiot doesn't pull out our troops before Iraq is ready to replace their role.

[gamutman]

Did you see the news today? O boy! The people want us OUT. No legitimate representative democratic government will ask us to stay.

[chrisbord]

I knew you'd say that, which is why I made the assertion. I knew your lack of understanding about Iraq was based on ignorance. Here goes.

Iraq has already signed onto a long term security cooperation agreement including a long term military presence, about 2 months ago.

No doubt you weren't paying much attention to actual goings on and didn't know about this. You're forgiven.

[gamutman]

I didn't say that we wouldn't be invited to stay by the corrent government. I said that no "legitimate representative democratic government" will ask us to stay. If we ever let them have one that is.

[chrisbord]

Ok, so now you're claiming the current Iraqi government, elected in U.N. supervised and sanctioned election, is not a legitimate democracy.

Pray tell how. I've heard this argument before, mind you, but only from those actually SUPPORTING the terrorists in Iraq as the rational for doing so.

[gamutman]

The current government still answers to their American overlords - did I say overlords? I'm sorry - protectors.

[chrisbord]

ROFLMAO. Love the reference.

Still, I'd like to see where you get the idea they're "answering" to us. We can't even get them to pass one dinky oil sharing bill, and you think we're their 'overlords?' That's almost as funnier! Care to make the case?

[chrisbord]

Well said weannama.

[chrisbord]

gamutman, you seem to have a problem seeing the forest for the trees. First in Japan how is the fact that the agreement was after the original surrender relevant? Any agreement to establish 'many bases' long term in Iraq would be well after the invasion.

Second, you compare apples to oranges, the '<100 casualties' in S. Korea to the current still hot war in Iraq, inexplicably assuming that the current casualty rates would be the same even 5 years from now and not continue to plunge. WTF?

[gamutman]

Japan surrendered peacefully allowing our military to usurp their own, to this day they only ever ask politely for us to please scale down our presence. A point made crystal clear in my video as I rhetorically asked if McCain thinks Iraqi protests will be as peaceful.

To your pie-in-the-sky argument that caualties will "continue" plunging in Iraq, I covered that naivety in the video. In Korea, there are occassional border skirmishes, by-in-large, our presence is welcomed by the S. Koreans.

[DiddleySquatt]

Brilliant! Glad to see it up here.

[WVJimbo]

You are so right!

[ComicSanMS]

Anyone who thinks we can win a war in Iraq or even a war or terrorism is wrong. You cant fight a religion! We learned this lesson during the crusades.

[chrisbord]

Iraq=Crusades? What are you, an idiot?

[ComicSanMS]

Rather than being rude and making yourself look retarded why not try being polite. It is a crusade. The insurgents are fighting a war that they believe will get them into heaven. Therefore a religious war. The US is no different from the Europeans trying to recapture the holy land from the Saracens. Why do you think we give Israel 18 million dollars a day and Palestine .8 million a day.

[chrisbord]

Why not stop wasting your time with ultra broad comparisons which have nothing to do with the specific task and scenario we're facing today?

For every overgeneralized comparison you can make, I can cite 5 ways the mission or the scenario or the situation is different TODAY. I know it's easy (and tempting) to just pick something out of history and use it as 'evidence' of your position, but seriously, the Crusades? Come the fuck on.

[ComicSanMS]

The crusades are a valid argument because the same conflicts have been happening for a thousand years and the only thing that has changed is the method of killing. You can right off my example as out of date, but the worst mistake we can make is forgetting the past. If were doing the same shit that we were doing a millennium ago something might be wrong. Thats why the crusades is a valid argument.

[chrisbord]

A worse mistake is applying lessons with a broad brush, and you have chosen a 'Comically' broad brush. Pun intended. ;)

[inbetweenpolitics]

He isn't saying we should not win the war first. The point is to say, if Bush said 50 years, don't worry if we are there for 50-100 years, it will be occupation but not war...too many people take this out of context.

Your first point is not about McCain being wrong, it's about the guy asking the question. ..

And who is to say that some other agreement like the one in Japan won't be made. And the goal is peace eventually.

P.S. I do not support the war, but this is just a pointless argument.

[gamutman]

"Your first point is not about McCain being wrong, it's about the guy asking the question..."

Not true. You have to listen to the words after "However"

[inbetweenpolitics]

"as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed"

[chrisbord]

Amazing what happens when you listen.

[gamutman]

I don't think McCain DID clearly speak of a time after reconciliation, but if he had that's foolish on its face, and I would have commented on it in the video. You can't have a political reconciliation when the enemy is not a political entity.

[OhioDemocrat]

That's Why McCain is Wrong! Great video.