Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is in dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the constant threat of terror if Muslim demands are not met.
@desiboyh Yeah... but it's harder to anderstand when it take so long ;D You should just say. 1...2..3.. and then you have explained it ;D You dont nid to talk around it. Just get to the point. Or people might not watch it all.
nowadays people are to used to post it note answers. Im sorry but the answer to a question has a context that needs to be explained before a person can totally understand. People need to realize that things are not as simple as 1.2.3
Given that all religions are a fundamental basis for society founded on civil morality, and given that all of Earth's societies have emerged from religious notions of civil morality, and given that societies have violence written in their laws and structures of power; is not the question; "Is Islam violent?" not the same as asking; "Is human society violent?". The question to me seems pointless. Every society has the capacity for violence and the potential for chaos.
The historical context is the life of Muhammad. The earliest and most authoritative biography is that written by Ibn Ishaq. He recounts no fewer than 38 raids upon his enemies including an unprovoked war against the Syrians. He destroyed the 'Pacifict Mosque' of those Muslims who declined to accompany him on these. He was a warmonger and a hatemonger and a very violent man.
@desiboyh Ibn Ishaq is contraversial, many narrations of his are the most excessive and have "added extras" onto other accepted hadiths- for example in the case of the prophets treatment of Jews and others during raids, it is indicated that Ibn Ishaq got his sources from Jews that were related to the tribes who had the propher conflicted with, for example in the case of Kinana and his treasure, NO accepted hadith mentions the torture of Kinana EXCEPT Ibn Ishaqs- its not reliable to me.
Well, it's a long way from Matthew 5:38-41. It's also hard to see how condoning warlike acts fits with the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. Clearly, it isn't.
Your objection only makes sense if you believe "pacifism" = "peace". I and others happen to think this is a ridiculous notion. A person paralyzed to justice and violence as a way to stop the violent is no better than the person who commits and injustice.
@DawahFilms You think it's ridiculous because Islam is not a religion of peace. It might be a religion of "We don't go to war unless we are obliged to." which instantly begs the question:"Under what conditions are you obliged to?"
The 'Peace' claim is a bold one, but the rapid expansion of Islam a thousand plus years ago was not carried out by peaceful means.
So now we define what is a real religion of peace based on what Osama said? Is that what you're implying? Or maybe you're implying that we should define Islams standard of peace based on Osama.
@DawahFilms My point is that the claim (of peace) is often made, but widely ignored. 4:92 is clear, (even to me!) but this hasn't prevented and does not prevent wars between Muslims. I judge what is a 'religion of peace' by what it's holy book(s) state and how its adherents behave. Yes, most Muslims (and Hindus, Christians etc) are peaceful. But the Koran is ambiguous, (4:94 and 4:104) and obviously some of its adherents know this.
WHY DO YOUR BOOK LIE ABOUT JESUS CHRIST [SUCH BLASHPHEMY!!!...]? I DO say GOD has a son, JESUS of Nazareth, not "Isa!" . So, ALLAH, u can strike me dead [yea sure, with CHRIST on MY side, please...] Also, HOW do u say "Isa" is the MESSIAH? Wut is a muslim's definition of messiah? And how can Muhammed be prophet of god over Jesus, a SUPERSINNING [muhammed] RAPIST [A'isha was 9 when he consummated the marriage which was done when she was only 7 [aprox.] UCKKK!!!]]]]
Matthew 5:38-41 is in a different context then these verses are. That is in the context of two people. This is in the context of whole countries. Obviously a country is not going to let other's attack it. Islam is a more wholistic religion than christianity. We focus on the personal lvl like the verses from matthew to a govermental level like these verses from the quran. I am not condoning anything in this vid. I am pointing out that it is illogical to say the quran (cont)
calls for the killing of the innocent when clearly it doesnt. And it wasnt the smartest thing to pull out the bible cuz i can point out a lot more "warlike" verses from their than I can from the quran.
@desiboyh Yeah, yeah, killing one innocent is like killing the whole world. I didn't say that the Koran calls for the killing of the 'innocent'. It doesn't, depending on how you define 'innocent'.
Islam simply isn't more peaceful than Christianity of Judaism, and neither are its adherents.
(No, I'm not claiming all Muslims are bad, merely that each religions seems to have its share of nutters who use the scripture to justify their acts.)
Just a bit of constructive criticism, if I may: pasting the text of the verse in the info section may be something your viewers will find helpful. I know that I, personally, looked for it so I could read along.
6:20 - 6:43
In other words, Islam is a Totalitarian system?
Klingschor 3 months ago
Other than the fact that Muslims haven't killed every non-Muslim under their domain, there is very little else that they can point to as proof that theirs is a peaceful, tolerant religion. Where Islam is in dominant (as in the Middle East and Pakistan) religious minorities suffer brutal persecution with little resistance. Where Islam is in the minority (as in Thailand, the Philippines and Europe) there is the constant threat of terror if Muslim demands are not met.
TheCryptomancer 7 months ago
Holy crap man get to the point! ;D
chrstilen5 8 months ago
@chrstilen5
lol. I have to make sure people understand the context so that they can follow my point.
desiboyh 8 months ago
@desiboyh Yeah... but it's harder to anderstand when it take so long ;D You should just say. 1...2..3.. and then you have explained it ;D You dont nid to talk around it. Just get to the point. Or people might not watch it all.
chrstilen5 8 months ago
@chrstilen5
nowadays people are to used to post it note answers. Im sorry but the answer to a question has a context that needs to be explained before a person can totally understand. People need to realize that things are not as simple as 1.2.3
desiboyh 8 months ago
@desiboyh Yeah but you could have mad that into 1.2.3 ^_^
chrstilen5 8 months ago
Given that all religions are a fundamental basis for society founded on civil morality, and given that all of Earth's societies have emerged from religious notions of civil morality, and given that societies have violence written in their laws and structures of power; is not the question; "Is Islam violent?" not the same as asking; "Is human society violent?". The question to me seems pointless. Every society has the capacity for violence and the potential for chaos.
iirfaithless 9 months ago
The historical context is the life of Muhammad. The earliest and most authoritative biography is that written by Ibn Ishaq. He recounts no fewer than 38 raids upon his enemies including an unprovoked war against the Syrians. He destroyed the 'Pacifict Mosque' of those Muslims who declined to accompany him on these. He was a warmonger and a hatemonger and a very violent man.
MagnusNielsenBewick 9 months ago
@MagnusNielsenBewick
ok. We can talk about this in an upcoming video.
desiboyh 9 months ago
@desiboyh Ibn Ishaq is contraversial, many narrations of his are the most excessive and have "added extras" onto other accepted hadiths- for example in the case of the prophets treatment of Jews and others during raids, it is indicated that Ibn Ishaq got his sources from Jews that were related to the tribes who had the propher conflicted with, for example in the case of Kinana and his treasure, NO accepted hadith mentions the torture of Kinana EXCEPT Ibn Ishaqs- its not reliable to me.
ramio1983 9 months ago
Well, it's a long way from Matthew 5:38-41. It's also hard to see how condoning warlike acts fits with the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. Clearly, it isn't.
Gorteenminogue 9 months ago
@Gorteenminogue
Your objection only makes sense if you believe "pacifism" = "peace". I and others happen to think this is a ridiculous notion. A person paralyzed to justice and violence as a way to stop the violent is no better than the person who commits and injustice.
DawahFilms 9 months ago
@DawahFilms You think it's ridiculous because Islam is not a religion of peace. It might be a religion of "We don't go to war unless we are obliged to." which instantly begs the question:"Under what conditions are you obliged to?"
The 'Peace' claim is a bold one, but the rapid expansion of Islam a thousand plus years ago was not carried out by peaceful means.
Gorteenminogue 9 months ago
@Gorteenminogue
Islam is a religion of Peace. If you want to impose YOUR idea of what our obligations are regarding warfare, be my guest.
Osama wouldn't certainly mind...that was his method.
DawahFilms 9 months ago
@DawahFilms No doubt Osama also thought that Islam was a religion of peace.
Gorteenminogue 9 months ago
@Gorteenminogue
Yeah, and what's your point?
So now we define what is a real religion of peace based on what Osama said? Is that what you're implying? Or maybe you're implying that we should define Islams standard of peace based on Osama.
DawahFilms 9 months ago
@DawahFilms My point is that the claim (of peace) is often made, but widely ignored. 4:92 is clear, (even to me!) but this hasn't prevented and does not prevent wars between Muslims. I judge what is a 'religion of peace' by what it's holy book(s) state and how its adherents behave. Yes, most Muslims (and Hindus, Christians etc) are peaceful. But the Koran is ambiguous, (4:94 and 4:104) and obviously some of its adherents know this.
Gorteenminogue 9 months ago
@Gorteenminogue
I disagree. There are many passages that extremely blunt about the nature of war and state clearly that it is about self defense.
DawahFilms 9 months ago
WHY DO YOUR BOOK LIE ABOUT JESUS CHRIST [SUCH BLASHPHEMY!!!...]? I DO say GOD has a son, JESUS of Nazareth, not "Isa!" . So, ALLAH, u can strike me dead [yea sure, with CHRIST on MY side, please...] Also, HOW do u say "Isa" is the MESSIAH? Wut is a muslim's definition of messiah? And how can Muhammed be prophet of god over Jesus, a SUPERSINNING [muhammed] RAPIST [A'isha was 9 when he consummated the marriage which was done when she was only 7 [aprox.] UCKKK!!!]]]]
ghettolipz21 1 month ago
@Gorteenminogue
Matthew 5:38-41 is in a different context then these verses are. That is in the context of two people. This is in the context of whole countries. Obviously a country is not going to let other's attack it. Islam is a more wholistic religion than christianity. We focus on the personal lvl like the verses from matthew to a govermental level like these verses from the quran. I am not condoning anything in this vid. I am pointing out that it is illogical to say the quran (cont)
desiboyh 9 months ago
@desiboyh
calls for the killing of the innocent when clearly it doesnt. And it wasnt the smartest thing to pull out the bible cuz i can point out a lot more "warlike" verses from their than I can from the quran.
desiboyh 9 months ago
@desiboyh Yeah, yeah, killing one innocent is like killing the whole world. I didn't say that the Koran calls for the killing of the 'innocent'. It doesn't, depending on how you define 'innocent'.
Islam simply isn't more peaceful than Christianity of Judaism, and neither are its adherents.
(No, I'm not claiming all Muslims are bad, merely that each religions seems to have its share of nutters who use the scripture to justify their acts.)
Gorteenminogue 9 months ago
@Gorteenminogue
Peace doesnt have different degrees.
desiboyh 9 months ago
I agree with cjc813 :)
Keep telling the truth. :)
ASealUponThineHeart 9 months ago
Just a bit of constructive criticism, if I may: pasting the text of the verse in the info section may be something your viewers will find helpful. I know that I, personally, looked for it so I could read along.
Take care.
cjc813 9 months ago