I gave you the sources but until now you have given me none. You have given no Talmudic source that I reject. You have given no Talmudic source that says we may not wear tekhelet now. You didn't figure out that the sages were talking about not selling plant derived tekhelet but calling it chilazon which was much more costly to make? You simply tow the 'wait for the mashiach miracle man," which is oops from the lie. Sorry that you aren't seeing the healing of the breaches in Torah.
It is only your opinion that the source isn't known. Science and archeology say that it has been rediscovered, tekhelet.com Take your choice of the over 100 articles, including Talmudic and scientific that you simply ignore and deny. Are they koferim? This originates from HaAretz and we submit to THEIR authority. Educated Jews simply will not accept your "Mashiach will tell us," when they have enough brains to figure it out.
@Yirmeyahu924 It is not my opinion otherwise I would be the only one not wearing it. I have seen the video from the link you gave. But so what!! What basis do you accept it? The very Talmudical sources you reject? I will wait for confirmation in the meantime and rely on opinions of those who know better than I.
I reject the illogical way you and those you follow interpret Talmud. I simply point out the logical inconsistency that thinking Jews see and that turns them away. You avoid healing the breaches in Torah by accusing others of rejecting Talmud and then questioning whether they are Jews? Yeah I'm a Jew that didn't check my brain at the door. So here's one for you - are you wearing techelet? You must reject Torah she bictav and she be'al peh!
@Yirmeyahu924The source for techelet is not known because it is lost, therefore it is not possible to wear it. However, some do wear a blue thread in their tzitzit but understand that it is not the real thing. Techelet is one of the things for Moshaic is to establish amongst the re-building of the 3rd temple, establishing universal knowledge of G-d and Torah.You point out what is a logical inconsistency which only serves to establish your rejection of Talmud and your lack of knowledge of it
As a prime example, one of which you alluded to, carrying on Shabbat. By the convoluted reasoning of not being able to carry anything on Shabbat except by rabbinic loophole, the Jewish people have lost the mitzwah of blowing the shofar on Yom Teruah, (not Rosh HaShannah because the Torah says that the first month is Aviv, Shemote 12:2,) if Yom Teruah falls on Shabbat. They simply don't do it because someone might carry it on Shabbat even though this has nothing to do with melachah!
Your explanation of Yirmeyahu 17:21 would be better made by comparing it with Nechemyah 13:14-22. It is almost repeated verbatim except with details that give a sound example of how to define melachah which is what the Torah forbids, working for money, or earning income, buying/selling. Also to use the Null Testament which is invalid by definition since it contradicts Torah/Tanakh is a red herring. I can't use magic to prove fire is not electricity. I can however use science/physics.
@Yirmeyahu924 I see you reject Talmud too. I will not argue with you, since plenty of space is already taken up in the Talmud WRT the Besuthians and the Tzadukim (Sadduces) who also make similar arguments as yours. Are you really Jewish by the way as far as the Orthodox definition of what is Jewish: Jewish Mother and Grandmother or have gone through a Halachic conversion?
I fully support and love the fact that you guys are defending the Messiah Yeshua against false and poorly looked into claims. Gotta love our Master Yeshua, for He is the Rebbe of Rebbes.
@Menashe65 Shalom. Yes, also love your search for truth brother, now I know I'm a gentile, but I still consider you my brother. I am not one of those who forget who the chosen people of HaShem are though, these are the Jews. I hold my place as a gentile, participating in the common wealth of Israel, but never replacing the Jew or even on the same level, but we should still be one, following Torah, as, well, in my opinion, OUR Messiah instructs.
I loved everything you said in your video except for the thing about Yeishua. As Maimonides mentions in his Mishneh Torah Hilchot Yesodei HaTorah 9:3, "A prophet tells us to transgress one or many of the Mitzvot of the Torah – whether a stringent or a more lenient one – but only as a temporary practice, then we are commanded to listen to him." Like how Hanukka is about publicising God's miracle, Yeishua wanted to publicise the miracle of healing, so he temporarily suspended that mitsvah.
So the conflict isn't Jesus vs the Torah, or even Jesus vs the Oral Torah - but rather Hillel and Shamai.
Now since you are a modern Jew, which descends from Hillelic Judaism would need to correct your self, as Jesus' ruling on the matter is in harmony with your tradition's ruling on the matter.
This story is no different. There was a debate in regards to carrying objects on the Sabbath WITHIN a domain. According to Shamai a person could not carry an item within a domain, according to Hillel they could. Jesus, being a Pharisee of Hillel flavor, followed that it was allowed and told the man to carry the bed as it was WITHIN a single domain, where Jesus' opponents, being of Shamai flavor, complained about it.
I fully disagree when you state that "Jesus got it wrong" in regards to telling the man to carry his bed. In the first century Judaism wasn't monolithic, even the Pharisees were composed of various fractions. The two main ones being followers of Hillel and followers of Shamai.
The conflict you see between Jesus and the "Pharisees" very interestingly mirrors the conflict between these two schools of thought.
I fully agree with you that there is both a Written and Oral Torah. One item you didn't mention is that in order to just read the Written Torah one needs the Oral Tradition, as there are no written vowels. So for example the only reason we know its a land of "milk and honey" instead of "milk and fat" is because the Oral Tradition tells us! And we know we are to offer the "fat" of the animals instead of the "honey" of the animals because the Oral Tradition tells us.
YAWN!!..What a load of OLD psycho babble. Why don't you Jews come and join the rest of humanity in the 21st century.
blahblah2556 6 months ago
I gave you the sources but until now you have given me none. You have given no Talmudic source that I reject. You have given no Talmudic source that says we may not wear tekhelet now. You didn't figure out that the sages were talking about not selling plant derived tekhelet but calling it chilazon which was much more costly to make? You simply tow the 'wait for the mashiach miracle man," which is oops from the lie. Sorry that you aren't seeing the healing of the breaches in Torah.
Yirmeyahu924 11 months ago
It is only your opinion that the source isn't known. Science and archeology say that it has been rediscovered, tekhelet.com Take your choice of the over 100 articles, including Talmudic and scientific that you simply ignore and deny. Are they koferim? This originates from HaAretz and we submit to THEIR authority. Educated Jews simply will not accept your "Mashiach will tell us," when they have enough brains to figure it out.
Yirmeyahu924 11 months ago
@Yirmeyahu924 It is not my opinion otherwise I would be the only one not wearing it. I have seen the video from the link you gave. But so what!! What basis do you accept it? The very Talmudical sources you reject? I will wait for confirmation in the meantime and rely on opinions of those who know better than I.
Menashe65 11 months ago
I reject the illogical way you and those you follow interpret Talmud. I simply point out the logical inconsistency that thinking Jews see and that turns them away. You avoid healing the breaches in Torah by accusing others of rejecting Talmud and then questioning whether they are Jews? Yeah I'm a Jew that didn't check my brain at the door. So here's one for you - are you wearing techelet? You must reject Torah she bictav and she be'al peh!
Yirmeyahu924 11 months ago
@Yirmeyahu924The source for techelet is not known because it is lost, therefore it is not possible to wear it. However, some do wear a blue thread in their tzitzit but understand that it is not the real thing. Techelet is one of the things for Moshaic is to establish amongst the re-building of the 3rd temple, establishing universal knowledge of G-d and Torah.You point out what is a logical inconsistency which only serves to establish your rejection of Talmud and your lack of knowledge of it
Menashe65 11 months ago
As a prime example, one of which you alluded to, carrying on Shabbat. By the convoluted reasoning of not being able to carry anything on Shabbat except by rabbinic loophole, the Jewish people have lost the mitzwah of blowing the shofar on Yom Teruah, (not Rosh HaShannah because the Torah says that the first month is Aviv, Shemote 12:2,) if Yom Teruah falls on Shabbat. They simply don't do it because someone might carry it on Shabbat even though this has nothing to do with melachah!
Yirmeyahu924 11 months ago
Your explanation of Yirmeyahu 17:21 would be better made by comparing it with Nechemyah 13:14-22. It is almost repeated verbatim except with details that give a sound example of how to define melachah which is what the Torah forbids, working for money, or earning income, buying/selling. Also to use the Null Testament which is invalid by definition since it contradicts Torah/Tanakh is a red herring. I can't use magic to prove fire is not electricity. I can however use science/physics.
Yirmeyahu924 11 months ago
@Yirmeyahu924 I see you reject Talmud too. I will not argue with you, since plenty of space is already taken up in the Talmud WRT the Besuthians and the Tzadukim (Sadduces) who also make similar arguments as yours. Are you really Jewish by the way as far as the Orthodox definition of what is Jewish: Jewish Mother and Grandmother or have gone through a Halachic conversion?
Menashe65 11 months ago
I fully support and love the fact that you guys are defending the Messiah Yeshua against false and poorly looked into claims. Gotta love our Master Yeshua, for He is the Rebbe of Rebbes.
2662pats 1 year ago
@2662pats I suppose that is one way of positively looking at things from you perspective!!!
Menashe65 1 year ago
@Menashe65 Shalom. Yes, also love your search for truth brother, now I know I'm a gentile, but I still consider you my brother. I am not one of those who forget who the chosen people of HaShem are though, these are the Jews. I hold my place as a gentile, participating in the common wealth of Israel, but never replacing the Jew or even on the same level, but we should still be one, following Torah, as, well, in my opinion, OUR Messiah instructs.
2662pats 1 year ago
I loved everything you said in your video except for the thing about Yeishua. As Maimonides mentions in his Mishneh Torah Hilchot Yesodei HaTorah 9:3, "A prophet tells us to transgress one or many of the Mitzvot of the Torah – whether a stringent or a more lenient one – but only as a temporary practice, then we are commanded to listen to him." Like how Hanukka is about publicising God's miracle, Yeishua wanted to publicise the miracle of healing, so he temporarily suspended that mitsvah.
Daibhidh464 1 year ago
@welovebrak,very well said.
ken05777 1 year ago
So the conflict isn't Jesus vs the Torah, or even Jesus vs the Oral Torah - but rather Hillel and Shamai.
Now since you are a modern Jew, which descends from Hillelic Judaism would need to correct your self, as Jesus' ruling on the matter is in harmony with your tradition's ruling on the matter.
WeLoveBrak 1 year ago
This story is no different. There was a debate in regards to carrying objects on the Sabbath WITHIN a domain. According to Shamai a person could not carry an item within a domain, according to Hillel they could. Jesus, being a Pharisee of Hillel flavor, followed that it was allowed and told the man to carry the bed as it was WITHIN a single domain, where Jesus' opponents, being of Shamai flavor, complained about it.
WeLoveBrak 1 year ago
Comment removed
WeLoveBrak 1 year ago
I fully disagree when you state that "Jesus got it wrong" in regards to telling the man to carry his bed. In the first century Judaism wasn't monolithic, even the Pharisees were composed of various fractions. The two main ones being followers of Hillel and followers of Shamai.
The conflict you see between Jesus and the "Pharisees" very interestingly mirrors the conflict between these two schools of thought.
WeLoveBrak 1 year ago
I fully agree with you that there is both a Written and Oral Torah. One item you didn't mention is that in order to just read the Written Torah one needs the Oral Tradition, as there are no written vowels. So for example the only reason we know its a land of "milk and honey" instead of "milk and fat" is because the Oral Tradition tells us! And we know we are to offer the "fat" of the animals instead of the "honey" of the animals because the Oral Tradition tells us.
WeLoveBrak 1 year ago