You can hear the shot and see Sonny's head move. It's legit. That punch was timed at .4 seconds and Sonny didnt even see it and those are the kind of punches that knock people out.
@ThatWoWGuy70 you couldnt be more right. ali in his prime lands tons of sharp straights that floor ppl that dont look like theyre damaging, theyre just too quick and accurate and most importantly well timed... ie (zora folley, cleveland williams,karl mildenberger) watch some of the knockdowns in these fights and you see what i mean... check out the knockout combo against brian london too. punches flyin so fast you can barely tell they land
Fair point it could have some thing to do with where the punch landed ie. Lower down on the jaw closer to the chin ad aposed to the others but I personally think it wasn't a fix
biggest fix ever ? he was alright he got back up and looked fine. liston is a bad actor Jersey Joe as the ref wtf liston is like im triyin to take a dive over here help me out he gets on one knee and falls like a sack of potatoes major fail!!!!!!!!!!!
@2332whitney. Well said he has recently turned 70 and is still regarded the greatest and he is my idol and I am only 17 and copying his style has allowed me to win all my fights although I'm not nearly quarter as good as him he truly was and still is the champ
You can be knocked out by any small punch. It's all on how the punch lands. The chin pushes the jaw back and hits a nerve that then knock you out. They fight may or may not have been fixed who knows its 50 years old now. Just know it is truth that a quick punch when I jaw isn't biting down on a mouth piece can cause a knock. Look it up. Look at the UFC fight between forrest griffen and silva. The last punch was less then this one.
i love when people think this fight or any other ali fights were fixed. it just shows how amazing he really was that some people are still in disbelief of his mind numbing performances that he put on 50 years ago. this is why hes muhammad ali. he did things that had never been seen in the world of fighting. no one faught like him before and no one will fight like him ever again.he was SO in fact good that all you idiots think his performance was fake lol. just adds to his legacy in my mind
@Tenbegdoh um ali didnt lose in his prime? when he was exiled in 67 he was undefeated and never came close to losing haha. first loss was to frazier cuz he was sluggish and out of shape. he wasnt the same fighter after being out of it for 3 1/2 years. but the WASHED UP ali managed to still beat PRIME frazier 2/3 , PRIME norton 1/2 and was the only man to conquer big george in his PRIME. as for the liston fight. check it in slo mo. u can see listons face jerk when the punch lands
Hey guys...if this knockout was a legitimate one how come we're still debating the shadiness of it today? I'm not pro Liston or Ali. I think they're both an embarrassment to boxing but I know a fixed match when I see one.
So when they interviewed former heavyweight champs like say...Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jess Willard and Joe Louis who stated the fight looked fixed there's no legitimacy to their statements?
You can see the right hitting. I've been boxing for years and if you get hit, even moderately hard, at the wrong time or the wrong spot, it can send you down. Anyone who thinks this is a fix just doesn't know anything about fighting.
Smh at Ali jumpin around the ring like he did sumthin! i remember the first time i seen this fight on espn classic i called bullshit rite away, this is a fix in a half! Ali should be embarrassed for takin part in this dive!
Liston NEVER admitted to taking a fall. He thought Ali was crazy, and with Ali hovering over him instead of re-treating to his corner was afraid to get up for fear Ali would knock his block off before he could stand. He states that in the book "The Life And Times Of Muhammad Ali." If anything, poor officiating was the only controversy. Ali did not retreat to his corner after the knockdown and Liston actually got a 14 count to stand, so if anything he got a break on that.
Yes, I've taken such a punch myself. It put me on my back and I jumped straight back up, feeling embarrassed. I didn't roll over like a baby. Ali was great, but why ignore the facts about the phantom punch. It's called phantom because there is something very dubious about it and let's face it, Ali was never able to do that again throughout his glittering career. I am straight down the line and just tell it as I see it. Ali was so surprised when Liston fell and so was the entire world.
I've been a boxing coach for 30 years and NO WAY is the punch hard enough to drop Liston and then make him roll over like a baby. Just impossible to KO Liston with that punch. Furthermore, Ali was never known as a devastating puncher. Throughout his entire career he never knocked out ANYONE else with one single punch, he had to land several punches. If the punch is so deadly why didn't Clay use it in some of his other fights? Now take that, digest it, accept it and consider the case CLOSED..
@pianoboyfriendable ...you're a coach eh?....ever had a fighter who got hit with a punch he didn't see? I notice you're using Ali's old name "Clay" soooo you're a hater. Case is hardly closed.
@pianoboyfriendable ok dumb fuck, if you really do box, you would know that a punch to the temple area can create temporary areas of zero cortical cerebral blood flow due to temporary severance of cerebral circulation in circumscribed areas. At the immediate depression of this area, nerves central to the visual cortex are electrically stimulated due to the elasticity of cerebral capillaries. Cut to simple terms, you may blackout if the punch affects your nerves in your eyes.
@pianoboyfriendable i really don't believe you have boxed before. sorry, but from what you're saying, ali could have never been able to do one punch knockout. srsly, if you think that, you're nothing but a commentator, that is someone who talks shit but doesn't know the true experience
Sonny's wife Geraldine said if it was a fix he took it to the grave with him.She never knew about it and they sure didn't get anything from it. Read "King Of The World" and see what you think. Definitely a hit like that could rattle your head enough to disorient you.
@theonlysaltspring He said it to a Sports Illustrated writer named Mark Kram back in the 70's. I've studied videos and read up on Sunny Liston a lot. There are some great books out on him. He was a mysterious guy. Check out a book called Sonny Boy. You can get it for like $3 on amazon I'm sure.
@elvislvr111 ..I remember Mark Kram. I will be very suprised if I find Liston "admitting to taking a fall." ...I simply don't believe that as of now........ anyway..I'll be on the lookout for Sonny Boy.
@elvislvr111 - Oh, c'mon. . . you are lying your ass off. Liston never admitted to anything, so stop pretending you're some kind of expert when you're not. You're embarrassing yourself.
@ShatteredWake654 Yeah great rebuttal man. Way to back up anything you're saying with some kind of substantiating argument. I already said before that he admitted taking a dive to an SI writer by the name of Mark Kram. That was a crap punch. He landed more solid ones earlier in the fight that Liston shook off. Any boxer with any experience knows there was nothing behind that punch. If it was legit, why is there still so much attention paid to this fight 40 years after the fact?
@ShatteredWake654 Get off Ali's dick man. Anyone who says he was the greatest never studied heavyweight boxers. I've been studying the heavyweights from the time of John L. Sullivan.
@elvislvr111 - Clearly you're nothing but an armchair boxer and have never been in the ring yourself. I've hit people square in the temple without even using HALF force and it's caused a knockout. It's not always about how HARD you punch, it's about WHERE you punch too. Sometimes, a random small difference in the direction of the spine or the tilt of the head can cause a HUGE difference.
Get off your fat ass at some point and actually try fighting. Not just watching and "studying."
@ShatteredWake654 You fruit. I've been boxing for 16 years now. I know what I'm talking about. The old timers were my inspiration quit football and become a boxer myself. To be a true boxer you have to know the history of it, Ooooh the temple! You're making things up now. If you hit people with half that force you're looking at ounces of punching power. All of your fights are fixed too. I've been hit in the temple harder than this and didn't go down.
@theonlysaltspring I have never read this personally but supposedly sports writer Mark Kram's book "The Ghost's of Manila" has an interview with Liston several years after the fight confesses to a dive due to threats from Muslim extremists.
@elvislvr111 watch the post fight interview. seriously. liston says the punch was very fast and surprising and thats why he was knocked down but he says he couldve gotten up faster and been able to continue had he known he was being counted out. there was no 10 count given by the ref. if anything this fight was messed up because of bad officiating. it was a real knockdown and liston was clearly headed for another embarassing loss. he couldnt even lay a finger on ali let alone land a clean blow.
This just isn't the way Liston fights! He's holding back his punches. It looks more like a practice match for home from the beginning. Also, Ali's feet weren't even planted when he throws the punch. Instead he's on one foot in a back-step when he throws it. As a boxer I can tell you there's not much to this punch. Liston has too much going on in his life at this time to fight an honest fight. He admits to throwing the fight later on in life too.
I don't get it, he got hit by a right hand and went down. Did I miss something? It wasn't a power shot but I think(can't see to good) he got hit in the chin.
Liston pulled a painfully dive that still stinks to this day. ANYBODY can see that that right hand slap of Ali wouldn't have hurt anything bigger than an insect.
It is a totally Fake!!! Even Ali himself was heard asking his staff afterwards if he had hit him. And years later, Liston admitted he had feared for his safety from Black Muslims who supported Ali.
if you listen to the punches, you can hear the ones that connect. and I didn't really hear that punch that put him down. Still saying that, Ali wasn't thowing too many jabs, it looked like he was waiting for the right moment and if you land a punch on the chin it doesnt have to be full force to make your world spin out of control.
Ali was gettin ready to warm Sonny ass up before the ref stopped it lmao he lucky they call this the phantom punch or we would of called this the slaughter
Its funny to see people that have no experience with the sport trying to explain what happened. First off he was chasing ali... when your being that aggressive you generally drop your guard. As for this fight sonny was moving toward Ali as he punched the exact way Forrest griffin attempted to chase down Anderson Silva and we all know how that ended (tko off of a simple jab.) You can even see the moment Ali swung again right after the "phantom-punch" which hit Sonny on the Chin not "temple."!!!
@mr1337GAlMlElR I dunno man. Look at where Ali's feet are. One was in the air and his hips are turning away from the punch. Any boxer would know you have to put your body into a strong punch. He doesn't have any weight behind it. Silva's feet were planted at least. Plus anytime the mob is involved it's going to be shady. Liston had been with the mob his whole life. Even Ali didn't believe the punch had any power behind it. He actually yelled at Liston, "Get up sucker, nobody will believe this!"
@elvislvr111 the beautiful thing about the sweet spot on a fella's chin is that it doesn't take an incredibly strong punch to put him on the canvas. I'm not saying that's what happened here but just because the punch didn't look like a bomb doesn't mean it didn't do the job of putting the man down.
the punch hit his hair so when he connects thats the scraping sound when his gloves slides across his hair, and he connected right above the temple which is a painful spot to get hit
Ali knocked him out period. There is no way Sonny could have faked that. He got hit hard and did not have any equlibium at all. It is so plain and easy to see that.
Liston played it up. I dont think it was a fix, but he also didn't try that hart to get up. It was a counter punch that caught Sunny on the right temple. He never saw it coming and as we know it is the punch you don't see coming that knocks you out.
We can't be irrational about this now. We can't just make statements like the fact that he was threatened by the mob and the Muslims. The Liston family has the death certificate and the crime scene report. My book will disprove this irrational thinking. Yes, Sonny was involved with the Mafia to the day he died but he was to smart to risk any future earnings with the Mob. Read my book when it comes out. My name is Lynel Gardner and I'm in charge of the Liston Estate.
they are both over 200 lbs and have heavyweight knockout power. the fight should be a short one. one or two punches that connect cleanly should be game over.
Your right his spirit gave up but it was not because my grandfather was being beat by Ali. As he told my father after the fight it was because the judges were not listening to his complaints in the ring about Ali's tactics. He gave up because he felt that no one wanted him to be champion anymore. My book will explain everything. I'm in charge of the Liston estate and we have the death certificate and crime scene reports. Yes he could have gotten up but he chose not to do it.
And I'm not saying that the fight was fixed b/c I don't know that. Ali could have had no idea that Liston wasn't going to fight. But I do feel like Liston knew he was only going in there for the loser's payday.
I have a question for all of you: What makes Liston any different than a street thief? He made people believe that they were investing their money into an entertaining fight, all while knowing he wasn't going to fight at all. Thats like a fucking Ponzi Scheme. Everyone was expecting ROI and nobody got it but HIM!
@CEO1451 I dont think Marciano did any of those fixed fights, simply because just about every fight he was in was a stone cold knockout (pretty hard to fake those haha) but you can never be 100 percent sure.
@CEO1451 I agree completely, Ali was a great fighter, but he did fake some fights in his day, just like many other boxers.
and Ali isn't the perfect fighter like everyone says, he just happens to have some attributes that are fantastic, but he wasn't the hardest hitting, that was probably Marciano, he wasn't the fastest, that most likely goes to sugar ray Robinson, and he didn't have the best pace of all fighters either, that one is hard but I would give it to Joe Calzaghe.
If you notice @ 4:03 -4:04 Liston quickly drops his right hand to the mat for support before he lays down.He then re-positions the same hand a split second before going to the floor. Amateur acting.
With any REAL Knockout, people go from standing to falling strait down. There is no catching yourself so you don't fall "wrong". How is there so much contention about this?
See for yourself-- check out some KO's on YouTube and you'll see the pattern.
Exactly like the punch that Vitali Klitschko KOed Solis with. Liston is coming in, his lead foot is off the ground just like Solis, gets hit with a temple shot. The impact is due to both men's weight and forward motion going into a headon crash. The only difference between this shot and the Klitschko/Solis shot is that the Klitschko/Solis impact had 100 lbs more weight in it.
@SilentBob420BMFJ no, what you don't see is the writer from ring mag jump into the ring and tell the ref that while the ref was fighting with Ali to get him a neutral corner that Liston had been down for 20 sec, and there for was KO'ed and the ref stopped the fight . When the rules state that the count doesn't start until the other fighter goes to a neutral corner. So the ref should have let the fight go on..
I saw Archie Moore knock Marciano down with an identical punch. Wobbled him pretty good too. I don't think Liston took a dive. There was no money to be made after the first fight.
i saw the slow mo video and i think the only reason why Liston went down is he didn´t saw that punch.
Please don´t misunderstand me it was a nice hit but the strengh of that counter wasn´t enough to end this fight. But if a fighter didn´t see a punch (and this was the perfect area) he can´t realize it and that is the most dangerous side of a counter.
wasn't fake, Sonny Liston was well know for his strong jab, he always step in and put all his weight into it. check on Ali he was measure it from the beginning of the fight. that was a great counter that connect. Great skill by Muhammad Ali.
This was very similar to the punch used by Anderson Silva to knock out Forrest Griffin. Fade, then punch and plant in a single motion. It was very clean, very fast, and unquestionably enough to cause a knockout.
Putting aside whether the punch was good enough to knock Liston out what I don't get is that the fight was stopped because the time keeper told Walcott that Liston was down for more than 10 seconds. Ali was running round the ring and never went to a neutral corner so the count should never have started.
@MrMegabreath ..absolutely right in your comments about the ali..liston fight..plus when they continued fighting after the knock down liston appeared to be recovering..ali never at anytime tried to retreat to a neutral corner,,the count cannot begin until that takes place..the whole thing had a smell about it...
@theonlysaltspring You just defeated yourself with your own argument. Many fights in the MMA DO end with punches like the one seen here as you said..but yes these fighters are genuinely hurt. If you catch a man square on the chin it pushes the lower jaw back into a nerve and the fighter's feet drop. It doesn't take a lot of force, and it's much more than a "flash knockdown" You even see liston attempt to get back to his feet but he was too hurt to do so.
I dont believe sonny liston would have thrown a fight all he wanted to do was hurt people... he didnt have a great life his father ridiculed him and told him he wouldnt amount to shit why would he wanna throw a fight... beside most likely he was murderd by the mob for NOT throwing fights they found him dead with needle in his arm... when it was known liston was terribly afraid of needles... He was LEGIT
Look at it he received a straight right as he was going forward ,& u must remember that Ali was trying to hurt him because he said he would not call him muhamad ali but cassius clay . Look at the punches if you a fighter u can tell he really wanted to hurt liston
@wyldace1982 You're thinking of Ernie Terell. "What's my name, Uncle Tom, WHAT'S MY NAME??" Ali taunted and punished Terrell for 15 rounds, fouling him with thumbs to the eye and repeating the phrase over and over.
straight to point, no i don't believe this was a fix! i am also an avid mma fan mainly ufc and the knockouts i've seen mirrror this quite accurately, off the top of my head ufc 131 stout vs edwards prelim! as you move into a punch especially with these trained athletes it doesn't take much of a swing to generate the force to knock some out! i see nothing fake about. there are hundreds of other examples aswel. an jus just look at 4.44-4.52, liston doesnt know where he is. he got hurt by it.
@MrNaze89 Actually, I think the best example of a similar knockout is Silva v. Griffin. Griffin attacks, Silva fades just enough then punches and plants simultaneously. Pure physical genius.
i don't know if the fix was in here, but when my father was at auburn, the week before thier first encounter, his roomate told him that his father told him that liston would not answer the bell in the sixth. A WEEK BEFORE, SOME GUY FROM BOAZ ALABAMA KNEW LISTON WOULD NOT ANSWER THE BELL IN THE EXACT ROUND.
I dont follow Sonny Liston's fights, nor do I have an opinion on if it was fixed or not, but this isn't very good boxing from someone who has had 37 fights.
Watch it in slow motion... Ali hits him on the left side of the face, and you can see the skin rippling on Listons lower right ribs as the shock wave runs thru him. No wind up but that was one direct and hard hit.
Conveniently, everyone seems to forget Ali whipped Liston quite easily on their first fight.
Even if this one was fixed, most likely Sonny just knew he couldn't stand a chance against Ali and he agreed to fight only because he needed the money, he never had any intention of winning or even fighting for real.
Sonny Liston in later years commented he could of won if Ali would have put his arms down and held still for a few minutes. He also said that he never saw Ali's punches but he felt them.
@RiverMpls A barbaric sport? Please, don't make me laugh. It's a contest and battle of wits between two opponents. They test their skill, technique and use supreme conditioning and discipline. Please, don't show disrespect. Boxers condition themselves by jogging miles daily, hours in the gym and sparring for hours, daily. They show respect to their opponents before and after a bout.
and seek past many limitations that most people try to prove impossible,but you are far too ignorant to understand,that because you surround yourself with a certain amount of limitations that YOU think the world should base itself upon also,which therefore means,you are culture shocked!,and have no idea what all exist,and can be done with the body of a human life form,and that my friend is why you have those irrelevant theories on forms of Interest,Maybe i'm blowing this out of proportion.
This is a BARBARIC Sport you say?,It so happens that Boxing much like any form of fighting is an art that proves to not only give a positive source to the human Morale,it also proves to teach self control,Discipline to help human behavior,and show just how much the human body can do!,and scientifically you can try to throw some bullshit stating how bad it is for the human body,or how we're not supposed to to put our bodies threw that kind of labor,but the Human mind proves to outgrow anything.
People who say what would somebody gain from making Liston lose??? How about the odds at the time...Liston was a 7:1 favorite to win. Somebody betting on Ali would stand to make a ton of money if Ali won.
@MRCoqpower Well since they don't control Ali as you pointed out, its easiest to have Liston take the dive... thats y they bet on Ali...... its a more sure thing then just telling Liston to knockout Ali..... n i have no opinion on whether or not its a dive, but ur reasoning was really bad
@MRCoqpower While the motivations are typically suspect, the reason most true fight fans believe this to have been fixed is Liston's behavior after getting "knocked out". I grew up a boxing fan and have been an avid MMA fan for more than a decade. I've seen dozens (probably more than 100) knockouts, and to the experienced eye, Liston's acting is obvious. This particular fight is only in "debate" because at the time, sportscasters couldn't or wouldn't come out and say it was so.
@MrBoondaba As a man that has actually spent time training in a boxing gym I can tell you I saw no "suspect" behavior in Liston's reaction. He acted like a disoriented fighter. ANY boxer regardless of division will tell you the best way to knock someone out with one punch is to catch them on the jaw while they are leaning in. That is exactly what happened to Liston at the 4:02 mark of this post. Many ppl missed that punch and only saw the follow thru that missed,thus the misnomer.
@SR71BBFLYER We should agree to disagree then. In the 100+ knockouts I've seen, I've never seen disorientation look like this. I know there are theories on his motivation for taking a dive, but I can't address any of those. All I know is that to me, this looks like an act.
@MrBoondaba True we can still be civil and disagree. But may I suggest you take a look at Tyson vs Berbick. Even with my ring experience I've never seen a reaction like Berbick's. But Tyson still wobbled his noggin clear as day. People react different when they are hurt. Compare Berbick to Holyfield....even when Evander was out on his feet his expression never changed.
I don't know what the betting lines on this were but if the odds were heavily against Ali, then it stands to reason. If your champ loses, you make more money on the underdog winning because the odds were against him. It's the same reasoning for why some people think Fedor Emelianenko vs. Fabricio Werdum was fixed.
@MRCoqpower Liston layed down for whatever reason. The punch probably surprised him and it is a legit knockdown I think. But he wasnt hurt at all. He goes to get up and and then rolls over like a dog playing dead. Then gets up after that very fast. He has his senses working properly. You can see even half way through the first round it is a mismatch. Liston was going to cop a hiding like Miami. The difference this time is in Lewiston, Maine he KNOWS what is coming. Im Maimi he had no clue.
@MRCoqpower it's possible they bet against liston in the for 2x and against ali for x. so when ali wins they make profit and they can say just what you said "why would we want ali to win?"
if sonny listons promoters werent in the mafia n paid him to lose that fight i guarentee he would have thrown A LOT more punches n landed plenty but not taking anything from ali it would have been a fight to remember and not the fight to remember thats known for a bogus knockout and even when he goes to get up and falls he would have never been able to stand up straight right away from falling over twice after a knockout its just fake ass hell
@RiverMpls yur jusat a spaz are yu from social services or somethin. it's athleticism. and isn't barbaric cos no ones gettin ripeed up there jsut punchin eachother and using theri talents to be somethin in their lives
Ali comes right out & tags Liston with a decent right at 2:21, and a fast, sharp right wobbles Sonny again at 2:23. Then Ali tags him with a flush right to the face @3:26. Every one of those punches stung, u could tell by Liston's movement. The punch that put him down did land more solidly than appeared in real time(see slomo). U can see Liston's head snap and the muscles on his back move from the impact. He was hurt by Ali's punches. He could've got up sooner, but he didn't want to continue...
CLAY (ali) WOULDN'T NEED TO HAVE A FIGHT FIXED, HE WAS THE GREATEST END OF STORY!
DNAD16 3 days ago
Liston pulled an Ortiz. looked for an early exit to avoid the ass whoopin' of his life.
oa3rosolo 3 days ago
From the "Hatest" to the "Greatest"
Ali the Legend !
BBoyKidKat 4 days ago
You can hear the shot and see Sonny's head move. It's legit. That punch was timed at .4 seconds and Sonny didnt even see it and those are the kind of punches that knock people out.
ThatWoWGuy70 4 days ago
@ThatWoWGuy70 you couldnt be more right. ali in his prime lands tons of sharp straights that floor ppl that dont look like theyre damaging, theyre just too quick and accurate and most importantly well timed... ie (zora folley, cleveland williams,karl mildenberger) watch some of the knockdowns in these fights and you see what i mean... check out the knockout combo against brian london too. punches flyin so fast you can barely tell they land
2332whitey 15 hours ago
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BBoyKidKat 4 days ago
The Phantom Punch : 4:00
MovieTablet 1 week ago 4
Fair point it could have some thing to do with where the punch landed ie. Lower down on the jaw closer to the chin ad aposed to the others but I personally think it wasn't a fix
beggzUYT1 1 week ago
Foreman walked onto dozens of the same right hand lead punch. Why was he not even phased? BIG QUESTION that requires a very convincing answer!!!
pianoboyfriendable 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@pianoboyfriendable ali was old in foreman
MrChinkyace 1 day ago
Plus liston walked on to it
beggzUYT1 1 week ago
It was the right that got Lister, not the left that missed.
62636263c 1 week ago
biggest fix ever ? he was alright he got back up and looked fine. liston is a bad actor Jersey Joe as the ref wtf liston is like im triyin to take a dive over here help me out he gets on one knee and falls like a sack of potatoes major fail!!!!!!!!!!!
jbonez1000 1 week ago
@2332whitney. Well said he has recently turned 70 and is still regarded the greatest and he is my idol and I am only 17 and copying his style has allowed me to win all my fights although I'm not nearly quarter as good as him he truly was and still is the champ
beggzUYT1 1 week ago
You can be knocked out by any small punch. It's all on how the punch lands. The chin pushes the jaw back and hits a nerve that then knock you out. They fight may or may not have been fixed who knows its 50 years old now. Just know it is truth that a quick punch when I jaw isn't biting down on a mouth piece can cause a knock. Look it up. Look at the UFC fight between forrest griffen and silva. The last punch was less then this one.
HopeForLaughter 1 week ago
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2332whitey 2 weeks ago
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2332whitey 2 weeks ago
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2332whitey 2 weeks ago
i love when people think this fight or any other ali fights were fixed. it just shows how amazing he really was that some people are still in disbelief of his mind numbing performances that he put on 50 years ago. this is why hes muhammad ali. he did things that had never been seen in the world of fighting. no one faught like him before and no one will fight like him ever again.he was SO in fact good that all you idiots think his performance was fake lol. just adds to his legacy in my mind
2332whitey 2 weeks ago
@2332whitey You do know Ali lost 5 times, right? Twice when he was in his prime, too. That's how amazing he was.
Anyway, the question here is not whether Ali's performance was fake, it's whether Liston's was.
Tenbegdoh 1 week ago
@Tenbegdoh um ali didnt lose in his prime? when he was exiled in 67 he was undefeated and never came close to losing haha. first loss was to frazier cuz he was sluggish and out of shape. he wasnt the same fighter after being out of it for 3 1/2 years. but the WASHED UP ali managed to still beat PRIME frazier 2/3 , PRIME norton 1/2 and was the only man to conquer big george in his PRIME. as for the liston fight. check it in slo mo. u can see listons face jerk when the punch lands
2332whitey 15 hours ago
Muhammad ali is a beast and so is liston
can we just let this match be?
MrMynameis55 3 weeks ago
Hey guys...if this knockout was a legitimate one how come we're still debating the shadiness of it today? I'm not pro Liston or Ali. I think they're both an embarrassment to boxing but I know a fixed match when I see one.
elvislvr111 3 weeks ago
So when they interviewed former heavyweight champs like say...Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Jess Willard and Joe Louis who stated the fight looked fixed there's no legitimacy to their statements?
elvislvr111 3 weeks ago
You can see the right hitting. I've been boxing for years and if you get hit, even moderately hard, at the wrong time or the wrong spot, it can send you down. Anyone who thinks this is a fix just doesn't know anything about fighting.
ShatteredWake654 3 weeks ago
he clocked him the face even a old man can see tht
heart29100 4 weeks ago
Smh at Ali jumpin around the ring like he did sumthin! i remember the first time i seen this fight on espn classic i called bullshit rite away, this is a fix in a half! Ali should be embarrassed for takin part in this dive!
JKIDD17 1 month ago
@JKIDD17 You can't stop someone from falling down. =\
KnightOneDark 1 month ago
Either it was a fix or Ali threw a punch as fast as that only once in his lifetime. What sounds
most likely?
pianoboyfriendable 1 month ago
@pianoboyfriendable since it's Ali, the second one
Bonzotriplets1 1 month ago
Liston NEVER admitted to taking a fall. He thought Ali was crazy, and with Ali hovering over him instead of re-treating to his corner was afraid to get up for fear Ali would knock his block off before he could stand. He states that in the book "The Life And Times Of Muhammad Ali." If anything, poor officiating was the only controversy. Ali did not retreat to his corner after the knockdown and Liston actually got a 14 count to stand, so if anything he got a break on that.
peteberwick 1 month ago 5
@peteberwick ...huh...well that's interesting isn't it? Thanks
theonlysaltspring 1 month ago
Yes, I've taken such a punch myself. It put me on my back and I jumped straight back up, feeling embarrassed. I didn't roll over like a baby. Ali was great, but why ignore the facts about the phantom punch. It's called phantom because there is something very dubious about it and let's face it, Ali was never able to do that again throughout his glittering career. I am straight down the line and just tell it as I see it. Ali was so surprised when Liston fell and so was the entire world.
pianoboyfriendable 1 month ago
I've been a boxing coach for 30 years and NO WAY is the punch hard enough to drop Liston and then make him roll over like a baby. Just impossible to KO Liston with that punch. Furthermore, Ali was never known as a devastating puncher. Throughout his entire career he never knocked out ANYONE else with one single punch, he had to land several punches. If the punch is so deadly why didn't Clay use it in some of his other fights? Now take that, digest it, accept it and consider the case CLOSED..
pianoboyfriendable 1 month ago
@pianoboyfriendable ...you're a coach eh?....ever had a fighter who got hit with a punch he didn't see? I notice you're using Ali's old name "Clay" soooo you're a hater. Case is hardly closed.
ThePastorGregory 1 month ago
@pianoboyfriendable ok dumb fuck, if you really do box, you would know that a punch to the temple area can create temporary areas of zero cortical cerebral blood flow due to temporary severance of cerebral circulation in circumscribed areas. At the immediate depression of this area, nerves central to the visual cortex are electrically stimulated due to the elasticity of cerebral capillaries. Cut to simple terms, you may blackout if the punch affects your nerves in your eyes.
ndrwplussine 1 month ago
@pianoboyfriendable i really don't believe you have boxed before. sorry, but from what you're saying, ali could have never been able to do one punch knockout. srsly, if you think that, you're nothing but a commentator, that is someone who talks shit but doesn't know the true experience
ndrwplussine 1 month ago
Sonny's wife Geraldine said if it was a fix he took it to the grave with him.She never knew about it and they sure didn't get anything from it. Read "King Of The World" and see what you think. Definitely a hit like that could rattle your head enough to disorient you.
jandm9002 1 month ago
Sonny liston once finished a fight with a broken jaw. The man could take anyone's best punch and keep coming for more.
loggerhead91 1 month ago
UM all you cunts are queer its ali the best boxer in the world and ever will be. it was a real punch
PooFlingaa 1 month ago
Woah! elvislvr111, where did you find him admitting to taking the fall? I want proof...
mr1337GAlMlElR 2 months ago
Reasons I think it was a fix:
1) Sonny is pulling his punches. He's not following through like he normally does.
2) Ali's feet are not planted and his hips are turning away from the punch.
3) Sonny Liston's involvement with the mob from the beginning of his career.
4) Ali actually said, "Get up sucker, nobody will believe this!" He didn't even believe the punch was any good.
5) Liston admitted to taking a fall later.
6) Great heavyweight champions of the era said it looked like a fix.
elvislvr111 2 months ago
@elvislvr111 ....dude...seriously? Liston admitted to taking a fall? WHERE!? WHEN?? Thats nonsense.
theonlysaltspring 2 months ago 5
@theonlysaltspring He said it to a Sports Illustrated writer named Mark Kram back in the 70's. I've studied videos and read up on Sunny Liston a lot. There are some great books out on him. He was a mysterious guy. Check out a book called Sonny Boy. You can get it for like $3 on amazon I'm sure.
elvislvr111 2 months ago
@elvislvr111 ..I remember Mark Kram. I will be very suprised if I find Liston "admitting to taking a fall." ...I simply don't believe that as of now........ anyway..I'll be on the lookout for Sonny Boy.
theonlysaltspring 2 months ago
@theonlysaltspring did you follow up on the Kram article, did he?
thierry2pac 6 days ago
@elvislvr111 - Oh, c'mon. . . you are lying your ass off. Liston never admitted to anything, so stop pretending you're some kind of expert when you're not. You're embarrassing yourself.
ShatteredWake654 3 weeks ago
@ShatteredWake654 Yeah great rebuttal man. Way to back up anything you're saying with some kind of substantiating argument. I already said before that he admitted taking a dive to an SI writer by the name of Mark Kram. That was a crap punch. He landed more solid ones earlier in the fight that Liston shook off. Any boxer with any experience knows there was nothing behind that punch. If it was legit, why is there still so much attention paid to this fight 40 years after the fact?
elvislvr111 3 weeks ago
@ShatteredWake654 Get off Ali's dick man. Anyone who says he was the greatest never studied heavyweight boxers. I've been studying the heavyweights from the time of John L. Sullivan.
elvislvr111 3 weeks ago
@elvislvr111 - Clearly you're nothing but an armchair boxer and have never been in the ring yourself. I've hit people square in the temple without even using HALF force and it's caused a knockout. It's not always about how HARD you punch, it's about WHERE you punch too. Sometimes, a random small difference in the direction of the spine or the tilt of the head can cause a HUGE difference.
Get off your fat ass at some point and actually try fighting. Not just watching and "studying."
ShatteredWake654 3 weeks ago
@ShatteredWake654 You fruit. I've been boxing for 16 years now. I know what I'm talking about. The old timers were my inspiration quit football and become a boxer myself. To be a true boxer you have to know the history of it, Ooooh the temple! You're making things up now. If you hit people with half that force you're looking at ounces of punching power. All of your fights are fixed too. I've been hit in the temple harder than this and didn't go down.
elvislvr111 3 weeks ago
@theonlysaltspring I have never read this personally but supposedly sports writer Mark Kram's book "The Ghost's of Manila" has an interview with Liston several years after the fight confesses to a dive due to threats from Muslim extremists.
andrewr62 8 hours ago
@elvislvr111 watch the post fight interview. seriously. liston says the punch was very fast and surprising and thats why he was knocked down but he says he couldve gotten up faster and been able to continue had he known he was being counted out. there was no 10 count given by the ref. if anything this fight was messed up because of bad officiating. it was a real knockdown and liston was clearly headed for another embarassing loss. he couldnt even lay a finger on ali let alone land a clean blow.
2332whitey 3 hours ago
This just isn't the way Liston fights! He's holding back his punches. It looks more like a practice match for home from the beginning. Also, Ali's feet weren't even planted when he throws the punch. Instead he's on one foot in a back-step when he throws it. As a boxer I can tell you there's not much to this punch. Liston has too much going on in his life at this time to fight an honest fight. He admits to throwing the fight later on in life too.
elvislvr111 2 months ago
that doesnt look fixed at all. that shot landed clean on the jaw
dusty6161 2 months ago
I don't get it, he got hit by a right hand and went down. Did I miss something? It wasn't a power shot but I think(can't see to good) he got hit in the chin.
punktheman 2 months ago
Liston pulled a painfully dive that still stinks to this day. ANYBODY can see that that right hand slap of Ali wouldn't have hurt anything bigger than an insect.
lanzacash 2 months ago
@lanzacash I totally agree. People here are in denial if they think that shot could hurt anyone.
elvislvr111 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It is a totally Fake!!! Even Ali himself was heard asking his staff afterwards if he had hit him. And years later, Liston admitted he had feared for his safety from Black Muslims who supported Ali.
jopvu 2 months ago
if you listen to the punches, you can hear the ones that connect. and I didn't really hear that punch that put him down. Still saying that, Ali wasn't thowing too many jabs, it looked like he was waiting for the right moment and if you land a punch on the chin it doesnt have to be full force to make your world spin out of control.
TheOnebigmick 2 months ago
Ali was gettin ready to warm Sonny ass up before the ref stopped it lmao he lucky they call this the phantom punch or we would of called this the slaughter
MasinaMusicGroupCV 3 months ago
Haha fixed
TH3Omaster 3 months ago
Hmm, something is fishy about this for sure.
Froebs 3 months ago
Its funny to see people that have no experience with the sport trying to explain what happened. First off he was chasing ali... when your being that aggressive you generally drop your guard. As for this fight sonny was moving toward Ali as he punched the exact way Forrest griffin attempted to chase down Anderson Silva and we all know how that ended (tko off of a simple jab.) You can even see the moment Ali swung again right after the "phantom-punch" which hit Sonny on the Chin not "temple."!!!
mr1337GAlMlElR 3 months ago
@mr1337GAlMlElR I dunno man. Look at where Ali's feet are. One was in the air and his hips are turning away from the punch. Any boxer would know you have to put your body into a strong punch. He doesn't have any weight behind it. Silva's feet were planted at least. Plus anytime the mob is involved it's going to be shady. Liston had been with the mob his whole life. Even Ali didn't believe the punch had any power behind it. He actually yelled at Liston, "Get up sucker, nobody will believe this!"
elvislvr111 2 months ago
@elvislvr111 the beautiful thing about the sweet spot on a fella's chin is that it doesn't take an incredibly strong punch to put him on the canvas. I'm not saying that's what happened here but just because the punch didn't look like a bomb doesn't mean it didn't do the job of putting the man down.
Proverbs1533 1 month ago
the punch hit his hair so when he connects thats the scraping sound when his gloves slides across his hair, and he connected right above the temple which is a painful spot to get hit
XsiknickX 3 months ago
youtube.com/watch?v=prxnGjKjxoo for the doubters
stereosapien 3 months ago
momentum = mass x velocity
end
stereosapien 3 months ago
Comment removed
stereosapien 3 months ago
I'd like to see you take a punch from Ali like that when leaning all your weight forward..phantom punch my ass..
dasdrifter12 3 months ago
Ali knocked him out period. There is no way Sonny could have faked that. He got hit hard and did not have any equlibium at all. It is so plain and easy to see that.
1teacherspit 3 months ago
Biggest sham in boxing history.
100% fixed.
haroof 3 months ago
Dive Dive Dive... he took a DIVE!
Beretverde 4 months ago
Liston played it up. I dont think it was a fix, but he also didn't try that hart to get up. It was a counter punch that caught Sunny on the right temple. He never saw it coming and as we know it is the punch you don't see coming that knocks you out.
dog987us 4 months ago
We can't be irrational about this now. We can't just make statements like the fact that he was threatened by the mob and the Muslims. The Liston family has the death certificate and the crime scene report. My book will disprove this irrational thinking. Yes, Sonny was involved with the Mafia to the day he died but he was to smart to risk any future earnings with the Mob. Read my book when it comes out. My name is Lynel Gardner and I'm in charge of the Liston Estate.
calista2000 4 months ago
@calista2000 ..i'll be the first to buy it...;)
theonlysaltspring 4 months ago
@calista2000
they are both over 200 lbs and have heavyweight knockout power. the fight should be a short one. one or two punches that connect cleanly should be game over.
thetybabycrybaby 3 months ago
Your right his spirit gave up but it was not because my grandfather was being beat by Ali. As he told my father after the fight it was because the judges were not listening to his complaints in the ring about Ali's tactics. He gave up because he felt that no one wanted him to be champion anymore. My book will explain everything. I'm in charge of the Liston estate and we have the death certificate and crime scene reports. Yes he could have gotten up but he chose not to do it.
calista2000 4 months ago
Liston was threatened by the muslims and the mob. He didnt have much of a choice. He even admitted it later in his life.
jerz211 4 months ago
@jerz211 Or he just pussied out
lolbarrk 3 months ago
@lolbarrk pussied out of what? I doubt he feared Ali more than the mob and muslims.
jerz211 3 months ago
The referee suddenly remembered he had left a pot boiling on the stove.
gillywibble 4 months ago
WHATTTT THE FUCKKKKK IS THE REF DOING???????? OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG LOLLLL
KontrollKontroll 4 months ago
Terrible refereeing
counterstriving 4 months ago
That got him good. He moved right into it. And ali baited him.
theavatarstoneburner 5 months ago
If Liston was intentionally losing, then why did he get back up and allow the match to continue?
It sure didn't look like a powerful punch that put him down, but you just can't tell unless you're on the receiving end of it.
melosebrainuhoh 5 months ago
1:31 JUMPSTYLE ^^
IIFLO99II 5 months ago
ali nailed him...punching down. but they stopped the fight too quickly.
crysjumar1 5 months ago
And I'm not saying that the fight was fixed b/c I don't know that. Ali could have had no idea that Liston wasn't going to fight. But I do feel like Liston knew he was only going in there for the loser's payday.
jayballa21 5 months ago
I have a question for all of you: What makes Liston any different than a street thief? He made people believe that they were investing their money into an entertaining fight, all while knowing he wasn't going to fight at all. Thats like a fucking Ponzi Scheme. Everyone was expecting ROI and nobody got it but HIM!
jayballa21 5 months ago
Sonny Liston should get an ESPY for the WORST actor in Boxing history... That wasn't believable at ALL.
jayballa21 5 months ago
its not a fix u ppl just nuts
devil666sommon 5 months ago
@CEO1451 I dont think Marciano did any of those fixed fights, simply because just about every fight he was in was a stone cold knockout (pretty hard to fake those haha) but you can never be 100 percent sure.
67Sman 5 months ago
@CEO1451 I agree completely, Ali was a great fighter, but he did fake some fights in his day, just like many other boxers.
and Ali isn't the perfect fighter like everyone says, he just happens to have some attributes that are fantastic, but he wasn't the hardest hitting, that was probably Marciano, he wasn't the fastest, that most likely goes to sugar ray Robinson, and he didn't have the best pace of all fighters either, that one is hard but I would give it to Joe Calzaghe.
he was just a great.
67Sman 5 months ago
Lolll this look like the One punch..wol.l 0_0
bruceleefollower 5 months ago
i dont know the punch looked like it hit the button
swaumpman 5 months ago
You people are dumb. It's obviously fake, christ, how can you not see that? Sonny Listom even admitted to losing on purpose.........
ThePLANxZ 6 months ago
This is clearly a faked Knockout. Here's why :
If you notice @ 4:03 -4:04 Liston quickly drops his right hand to the mat for support before he lays down.He then re-positions the same hand a split second before going to the floor. Amateur acting.
With any REAL Knockout, people go from standing to falling strait down. There is no catching yourself so you don't fall "wrong". How is there so much contention about this?
See for yourself-- check out some KO's on YouTube and you'll see the pattern.
kjdiddy11 6 months ago
Exactly like the punch that Vitali Klitschko KOed Solis with. Liston is coming in, his lead foot is off the ground just like Solis, gets hit with a temple shot. The impact is due to both men's weight and forward motion going into a headon crash. The only difference between this shot and the Klitschko/Solis shot is that the Klitschko/Solis impact had 100 lbs more weight in it.
huraha96704 6 months ago
Looks like a hit in the temple
vandshome 6 months ago
he lets down his guard to focus all of it on attacking and dodging D;
H1t5ug4y4 6 months ago
Why didn't they let him continue? Did his corner throw in the towel?
SilentBob420BMFJ 6 months ago
@SilentBob420BMFJ no, what you don't see is the writer from ring mag jump into the ring and tell the ref that while the ref was fighting with Ali to get him a neutral corner that Liston had been down for 20 sec, and there for was KO'ed and the ref stopped the fight . When the rules state that the count doesn't start until the other fighter goes to a neutral corner. So the ref should have let the fight go on..
ryans77 6 months ago
Obviously fixed, you can tell how fake it is when he's trying to get up.
SilentBob420BMFJ 6 months ago
look up the video in slow motion he did hit him
kb241995 6 months ago
I saw Archie Moore knock Marciano down with an identical punch. Wobbled him pretty good too. I don't think Liston took a dive. There was no money to be made after the first fight.
dennbb 6 months ago
maybe he hit him in the temple?
dman197888 6 months ago
i heard someone in the background say "fuck ali" at 1:37
17nitox 7 months ago
Comment removed
17nitox 7 months ago
i saw the slow mo video and i think the only reason why Liston went down is he didn´t saw that punch.
Please don´t misunderstand me it was a nice hit but the strengh of that counter wasn´t enough to end this fight. But if a fighter didn´t see a punch (and this was the perfect area) he can´t realize it and that is the most dangerous side of a counter.
MegaExci 7 months ago
wasn't fake, Sonny Liston was well know for his strong jab, he always step in and put all his weight into it. check on Ali he was measure it from the beginning of the fight. that was a great counter that connect. Great skill by Muhammad Ali.
thefaqyou 7 months ago
LIston was defeated in the foirst few seconds when he realised he would never be able to touch alii..thats why his spirit gave up.
RivJohnson101 7 months ago 8
This was very similar to the punch used by Anderson Silva to knock out Forrest Griffin. Fade, then punch and plant in a single motion. It was very clean, very fast, and unquestionably enough to cause a knockout.
MrMZaccone 7 months ago
Putting aside whether the punch was good enough to knock Liston out what I don't get is that the fight was stopped because the time keeper told Walcott that Liston was down for more than 10 seconds. Ali was running round the ring and never went to a neutral corner so the count should never have started.
MrMegabreath 7 months ago
@MrMegabreath ..absolutely right in your comments about the ali..liston fight..plus when they continued fighting after the knock down liston appeared to be recovering..ali never at anytime tried to retreat to a neutral corner,,the count cannot begin until that takes place..the whole thing had a smell about it...
todmantodman 7 months ago
@theonlysaltspring You just defeated yourself with your own argument. Many fights in the MMA DO end with punches like the one seen here as you said..but yes these fighters are genuinely hurt. If you catch a man square on the chin it pushes the lower jaw back into a nerve and the fighter's feet drop. It doesn't take a lot of force, and it's much more than a "flash knockdown" You even see liston attempt to get back to his feet but he was too hurt to do so.
brivanas 8 months ago
I dont believe sonny liston would have thrown a fight all he wanted to do was hurt people... he didnt have a great life his father ridiculed him and told him he wouldnt amount to shit why would he wanna throw a fight... beside most likely he was murderd by the mob for NOT throwing fights they found him dead with needle in his arm... when it was known liston was terribly afraid of needles... He was LEGIT
Jblaze123420 8 months ago
Look at it he received a straight right as he was going forward ,& u must remember that Ali was trying to hurt him because he said he would not call him muhamad ali but cassius clay . Look at the punches if you a fighter u can tell he really wanted to hurt liston
wyldace1982 8 months ago
@wyldace1982 You're thinking of Ernie Terell. "What's my name, Uncle Tom, WHAT'S MY NAME??" Ali taunted and punished Terrell for 15 rounds, fouling him with thumbs to the eye and repeating the phrase over and over.
MrMZaccone 7 months ago
straight to point, no i don't believe this was a fix! i am also an avid mma fan mainly ufc and the knockouts i've seen mirrror this quite accurately, off the top of my head ufc 131 stout vs edwards prelim! as you move into a punch especially with these trained athletes it doesn't take much of a swing to generate the force to knock some out! i see nothing fake about. there are hundreds of other examples aswel. an jus just look at 4.44-4.52, liston doesnt know where he is. he got hurt by it.
MrNaze89 8 months ago
@MrNaze89 Actually, I think the best example of a similar knockout is Silva v. Griffin. Griffin attacks, Silva fades just enough then punches and plants simultaneously. Pure physical genius.
MrMZaccone 7 months ago
Is there really a cause for debate here? That's the kinda acting that would have Brando turning in his grave!
larwhelan 8 months ago
@larwhelan Acting? Seriously?
MrMZaccone 7 months ago
i don't know if the fix was in here, but when my father was at auburn, the week before thier first encounter, his roomate told him that his father told him that liston would not answer the bell in the sixth. A WEEK BEFORE, SOME GUY FROM BOAZ ALABAMA KNEW LISTON WOULD NOT ANSWER THE BELL IN THE EXACT ROUND.
hambonski1 8 months ago
I dont follow Sonny Liston's fights, nor do I have an opinion on if it was fixed or not, but this isn't very good boxing from someone who has had 37 fights.
Boxer4Christ 8 months ago
Watch it in slow motion... Ali hits him on the left side of the face, and you can see the skin rippling on Listons lower right ribs as the shock wave runs thru him. No wind up but that was one direct and hard hit.
hawktalisman 9 months ago
Conveniently, everyone seems to forget Ali whipped Liston quite easily on their first fight.
Even if this one was fixed, most likely Sonny just knew he couldn't stand a chance against Ali and he agreed to fight only because he needed the money, he never had any intention of winning or even fighting for real.
Ali was much better then him, deal with it.
KarasuNoGoh 9 months ago
just noticed liston only doesnt throw one right hand to the head thats not like liston unless he just didnt wanna waiste energy goin for an urly ko
lee1990lee 9 months ago
I had no idea Drew Carey used to be a ring announcer!
Roadstar1602 10 months ago
Sonny Liston in later years commented he could of won if Ali would have put his arms down and held still for a few minutes. He also said that he never saw Ali's punches but he felt them.
corvettegeorge1979 10 months ago
Haha so obvious he took a dive. Ali the greatest????? Yeah of course he is, what a joke.
bigtoeshrunk 10 months ago
@RiverMpls A barbaric sport? Please, don't make me laugh. It's a contest and battle of wits between two opponents. They test their skill, technique and use supreme conditioning and discipline. Please, don't show disrespect. Boxers condition themselves by jogging miles daily, hours in the gym and sparring for hours, daily. They show respect to their opponents before and after a bout.
They both want to participate, so why not?
orriray59highlights 10 months ago
and seek past many limitations that most people try to prove impossible,but you are far too ignorant to understand,that because you surround yourself with a certain amount of limitations that YOU think the world should base itself upon also,which therefore means,you are culture shocked!,and have no idea what all exist,and can be done with the body of a human life form,and that my friend is why you have those irrelevant theories on forms of Interest,Maybe i'm blowing this out of proportion.
DBZ4ETERNITY 10 months ago
This is a BARBARIC Sport you say?,It so happens that Boxing much like any form of fighting is an art that proves to not only give a positive source to the human Morale,it also proves to teach self control,Discipline to help human behavior,and show just how much the human body can do!,and scientifically you can try to throw some bullshit stating how bad it is for the human body,or how we're not supposed to to put our bodies threw that kind of labor,but the Human mind proves to outgrow anything.
DBZ4ETERNITY 10 months ago
People who say what would somebody gain from making Liston lose??? How about the odds at the time...Liston was a 7:1 favorite to win. Somebody betting on Ali would stand to make a ton of money if Ali won.
pantherseven1 10 months ago
Liston took a dive. Ali would have won anyway though
diegofan80 10 months ago
To all those who say it's a fix
1) You can watch the punch landing in slow motion on youtube
2)You say the mob made Liston lose. What would they gain with a losing champ? Why would they have their man lose when the mob did not control Ali?
MRCoqpower 10 months ago 7
@MRCoqpower Well since they don't control Ali as you pointed out, its easiest to have Liston take the dive... thats y they bet on Ali...... its a more sure thing then just telling Liston to knockout Ali..... n i have no opinion on whether or not its a dive, but ur reasoning was really bad
gangstanton69 10 months ago
@MRCoqpower Pretty simple. They made tons of money off betting against Liston in the fight. Ali was a huge underdog.
TwentyozDew 10 months ago
@MRCoqpower because if the made liston lose then they put their money on ali.
llamasonice85 10 months ago
@MRCoqpower the mob didnt have him lose sonny owed them money and bet against himself to use the money to pay them back
88irocztpi 10 months ago
@MRCoqpower
Because He Owned Money To THe Mob,And He Bet Against Himself. Why Would He Win And Owe MORE ?
TheAcunamauricio 9 months ago
@MRCoqpower Is it not obvious to you why they would want him to lose? They could bet on Ali and have Liston lose...
CelticSponge 9 months ago
Because he was favoured 7 to 1 maybe? lol he's clearly acting here are you kidding me.
Swayze88 8 months ago
@MRCoqpower While the motivations are typically suspect, the reason most true fight fans believe this to have been fixed is Liston's behavior after getting "knocked out". I grew up a boxing fan and have been an avid MMA fan for more than a decade. I've seen dozens (probably more than 100) knockouts, and to the experienced eye, Liston's acting is obvious. This particular fight is only in "debate" because at the time, sportscasters couldn't or wouldn't come out and say it was so.
MrBoondaba 7 months ago
@MrBoondaba As a man that has actually spent time training in a boxing gym I can tell you I saw no "suspect" behavior in Liston's reaction. He acted like a disoriented fighter. ANY boxer regardless of division will tell you the best way to knock someone out with one punch is to catch them on the jaw while they are leaning in. That is exactly what happened to Liston at the 4:02 mark of this post. Many ppl missed that punch and only saw the follow thru that missed,thus the misnomer.
SR71BBFLYER 7 months ago
@SR71BBFLYER We should agree to disagree then. In the 100+ knockouts I've seen, I've never seen disorientation look like this. I know there are theories on his motivation for taking a dive, but I can't address any of those. All I know is that to me, this looks like an act.
MrBoondaba 7 months ago
@MrBoondaba True we can still be civil and disagree. But may I suggest you take a look at Tyson vs Berbick. Even with my ring experience I've never seen a reaction like Berbick's. But Tyson still wobbled his noggin clear as day. People react different when they are hurt. Compare Berbick to Holyfield....even when Evander was out on his feet his expression never changed.
SR71BBFLYER 7 months ago
@MRCoqpower
1) So what if the punch lands? Liston took bigger punches from bigger hitting opponents.
2) Not enough characters to answer...
WarRoomReview 6 months ago
@MRCoqpower in response to 2)
I don't know what the betting lines on this were but if the odds were heavily against Ali, then it stands to reason. If your champ loses, you make more money on the underdog winning because the odds were against him. It's the same reasoning for why some people think Fedor Emelianenko vs. Fabricio Werdum was fixed.
DoomRulz 6 months ago
@MRCoqpower they bet money on ali so they made liston lose u dumb shit
rbtommmyboy 6 months ago
@MRCoqpower
additionaly liston and ali were ENEMIES before the fight, not like ali vs frazier, that was just showbiz but ali vs liston = true enemies.
777digger777 5 months ago
@MRCoqpower Liston layed down for whatever reason. The punch probably surprised him and it is a legit knockdown I think. But he wasnt hurt at all. He goes to get up and and then rolls over like a dog playing dead. Then gets up after that very fast. He has his senses working properly. You can see even half way through the first round it is a mismatch. Liston was going to cop a hiding like Miami. The difference this time is in Lewiston, Maine he KNOWS what is coming. Im Maimi he had no clue.
genericgeorge 5 months ago
@MRCoqpower it's possible they bet against liston in the for 2x and against ali for x. so when ali wins they make profit and they can say just what you said "why would we want ali to win?"
ilaughatyourexpense 5 months ago
@MRCoqpower
7-1 odds against Ali
apfultz315 4 months ago
if sonny listons promoters werent in the mafia n paid him to lose that fight i guarentee he would have thrown A LOT more punches n landed plenty but not taking anything from ali it would have been a fight to remember and not the fight to remember thats known for a bogus knockout and even when he goes to get up and falls he would have never been able to stand up straight right away from falling over twice after a knockout its just fake ass hell
mvlocc 10 months ago
@RiverMpls yur jusat a spaz are yu from social services or somethin. it's athleticism. and isn't barbaric cos no ones gettin ripeed up there jsut punchin eachother and using theri talents to be somethin in their lives
naicheervan96 10 months ago
a lot of people love ali..he is a great boxer but to me, he is not a great man
He converted to Allah and became a draft dodger..
klepetar 10 months ago
Sonny Liston was a horrible actor... it was a fix.
krypto406 10 months ago
@theonlysaltspring
youtube.com/watch?v=Z3iT_abbD7Y
dont piss on the electric fence
imamfollower 10 months ago
@theonlysaltspring
im happy to help you with this one
youtube.com/watch?v=prxnGjKjxoo&feature=related
imamfollower 10 months ago
@RiverMpls so how tiny is ur dick???
MrComment23 11 months ago
@RiverMpls Go favourite more videos of Marilyn Mason you faggot
disgustika 11 months ago
Anyone who thinks this is fake doesn't understand physics. It's an absolutely perfect punch; Ali is totally relaxed.
jkrendel 11 months ago
@RiverMpls go make a sandwich you stupid bitch
CashMag 11 months ago
@RiverMpls shut up bitch go back to the kitchen
hanmerboys 11 months ago
Ali comes right out & tags Liston with a decent right at 2:21, and a fast, sharp right wobbles Sonny again at 2:23. Then Ali tags him with a flush right to the face @3:26. Every one of those punches stung, u could tell by Liston's movement. The punch that put him down did land more solidly than appeared in real time(see slomo). U can see Liston's head snap and the muscles on his back move from the impact. He was hurt by Ali's punches. He could've got up sooner, but he didn't want to continue...
strictlycomments 11 months ago