Mormon View of Transsexuals

[darliegoddess]

That was beautifully put together.

[georgeNconrad]

I transitioned Female to male ages ago and now am a bald, hairy man. I grew up non--LDS but have really come to appreciate the church. If it weren't for being transgender, I probably would've become mormon. But that happened to me, too----I was told that I'd have to un-transition. Ummmmmm.....yea, imagine me trying to look like a woman. Awkward. So needless to say, I ended up not joining.

[jameshopkins21]

SethExM,

Church views on transsexuals, I believe, are changing. The handbook of instructions now says that those undergoing SRS MAY, not MUST, be excommunicated. The notion that transsexualism is a akin to a birth defect that requires early treatment and that brain sex trumps chromosomes and genitalia in determining the true nature of one's spiritual sex, I believe, are views that appear to be gaining momentum. I believe the LDS Church is true, and that some patience and education is needed

[HugzTiem]

Well, I simply still practice LDS on my own. I'm not baptized. And I suppose I never will be but regardless, I still love the church, and I love Jesus Christ, and I know that I'm here as are all transpeeps, as Jesus himself said, "so that the works of God might be made visible through [us]." John 9:3

[cmossca01]

Doctrine of the Mormon Church regarding transsexual members is clear. My question is how you deal with all the baggage we get from the Mormon Church being former members? I mean after SRS you are ostracized and socially outcast. We carry that hurt it seems forever no matter what. What do you think? Look forward to your comment. I thought your video was quite informative and good!

[oboyisreal]

I really enjoy your videos and I would Also I also like to add that I to was A Mormon and infact grow up in the LDS church, BUT I quit going back in 2000 when I moved out of my parents ..................Lastly I am a strong supported of the PFLAG and other Trans and Gay committees ! ( I send you more in a message sometime take care!)

[subluminus]

Mutilation is wrong but the bible states very clearly that is is better to enter heaven without the feature that makes you sin than to go into hell with it. "If your hand makes you sin, cut it off for it is better to enter heaven with one hand, than to go into hell with two." Notice "cut it off" in that passage. Also this "Some make themselves into Eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven." Body modification to change a feature that causes sin or death (envy, self-loathing, suicide) is acceptable.

[MsRebellecca]

Hello, I was very curious about this topic as I am transexual and felt many of the beliefs fo the mormon faith seemed ok in my book. God created me a woman with a birth defect, a male body. I spent many years suffering with this handicap, you yourself wear glasses as do I, could it be god intended us to be impared in our vision and never take the steps to correct it? Maybe this was a challenge god gave me to overcome and I have. God loves the woman I am.

[Johnson154]

Hi Seth,

I am a gay ex-mormon from SLC, UT. Even though I don't believe the theology of the LDS church anymore, I still find myself contemplating the value system and beliefs that many in family still hold to. I don't really understand the transgender mind as much as I would like to, as I have never had to deal with it myself. But I thought this video did a great job of explaining why the mormon church discriminates against transgender ppl. I never thought of like you put it. Good work!

[joeyslaptop]

I was looking for information about how the LDS deal with people born with an unclear gender (or both) or people who naturally change due to hormone imbalances, etc. I thought these people were called transexuals. If not, what are they called? How does the church deal with people who have that issue.

[SethExM]

@joeyslaptop One of the current terms used to describe people born with unclear or both genders is intersexed. An older term for this condition is hermaphoriditism. The church is more accepting of these individuals, and will allow intersexed people to determine which gender they identify with (live as) without any restrictions to membership or activities.

[joeyslaptop]

Hey, I'm LDS. I don't think less of people who can't qualify for a temple recommend. I do recognize that not having a temple recommend limits the capacity in which one can serve or participate within the church.

The LDS church does strongly emphasize roles and responsibilities assigned by natural gender. Not everyone can fulfill all of those intended roles. God loves us all in spite of our imperfections. It's up to us to do our best if we want to serve God the way He has outlined for us.

[IAmLifeDominant]

I was a Mormon, too. I am also FTM. Let's just say I was glad I left the church a long time ago, although I'm probably not technically excommunicated. I personally renounced it after finding the church's views on homosexuality alone. I am so happy to be out of it.

[TOMZAUGG]

Imagine what the church would be like without the D&C, Pearl of Great Price, Temple and a first presidency. All that would remain would be the bible, B of M and the Quarm of the 12. I'd argue a Mormon can be defined as anyone who believes in the B of M. Our experience was with the LDS sect, but there are others.

[Splinter4077]

"Life makes much more sense outside of the church than inside..."

Oh how I agree with you so!

[seaman93555]

I am an ex-Mormon, was excommunicated, when I lived in the Tri-Cities (Washington State) - I too, was a returned Missionary. In my defense, I suppose I bought into their "we love you all" line, but that proved to be not true. I was visited at my home, after coming-out to my Branch President. His answer was: "Well, let's pray about it.", which I had already done. Because of their faith and blind obedience to anything, but what is spewed by the Prophet, they cannot relate to us.

[janicepjam]

the church has no authority over sexual identity, it is between you and the God of your understanding, noone else.

[tacomasam]

Similarly as a ex-Jehovah's Witness and a MTF transsexual I have come to the conclusion that NO man or woman on this earth can claim to have godly authority over another person. We are told that the only mediator between God and man is Jesus Christ NOT a group of men claiming to be modern day apostles (that goes for any religious group today).

[gigill68]

First, I am impressed by your courage and truth. I don't know how old you are, but wise beyond your years. I am so grateful that I came across this blog. I just started reading The BOM to answer questions that have been on my mind. I was raised Catholic; converted to Lutheran and consider myself a Christian spiritualist. May I ask what your practices and beliefs are now? I have so many questions!!! Kudos for speaking and telling your truth to help others. =)

[Randimichelle1]

This is an excellent video ! You did a great job. :)

[gothique11]

excellent video. You did a great job of explaining why the church doesn't embrace transsexuals. I also have a mormon background, so I can relate to this well.

[Kraele]

I am a Mormon (this will not be an obnoxious or negative comment on you, so relax) and I do have to admit that your video brings up some fairly disturbing points about Mormon doctrine that I have struggled with for a long time. That being said, my personal testimony of Jesus Christ keeps me in the church, although I do question the stigma that many of its members have towards good people who have had this surgery. I have some issue with your definition of the gender roles in the church, though.

[quadriko]

Jesus loves transsexuals the same as anyone else.

[lucycow]

Hello Seth Ma' Man

I was an LDS missionary in the Spain, Madrid mission from 1981-1983. I was a Mormon convert of only 1 1/2 years when I was sent out into the mission field at my behest. In truth, I became a Mormon because I was/am Gay and in my young mind, thought that I would no longer have any ' Gay feelings' by becoming a Mormon.....Well let me tell you THAT was a foolish assumption. I don't know what you have gone through as a Transgendgered individual, but I applaud YOU my friend.

[schildno5]

I'm sorry. I don't care about their "temple recommend" just to get into some clean, shiny overdone building... And to watch legions of sexist men in their crisp expensive suits, run their mouths on why they're superior to women? They are not God, nor will they ever be. Now this is my opinion, but I believe God loves us all, & he loves us even more for how we treat one another.

[msbliss238]

I would never go to a Mormom church even if they did accept transgendered people. They, like MOSTchurches, use the bible as a way to discriminate against others.

[Jeremy696969]

keep fighting the good fight.

the more light shed upon sham religions

and corruption cloaked in spiritual sheep's

clothing the better.

peace be with you.

[oshundayo]

Persons Who Are Considering or Have Undergone a Transsexual Operation

Persons who are considering an elective transsexual operation should not be baptized. Persons who have already undergone an elective transsexual operation may be baptized if they are otherwise found worthy in an interview with the mission president or a priesthood leader he assigns. Such persons may not receive the priesthood or a temple recommend.

[SethExM]

Not allowing transgendered individuals to receive the priesthood or receive a temple recommend essentially labels them as "less than worthy" in the eyes of all those they associate with in the church. The church also teaches that the only way you can reach the highest level of heaven is by receiving the priesthood and going through the temple. This means the church is literally telling transsexuals that they have no place in the highest kingdom in heaven....

[NoAntecessor]

On my mission (I was LDS) I once asked my mission president how the church dealt with individuals who were born of uncertain gender. He said that such didn't exist. It was a rather bold denial of a reality that would make things awkward for the church's power structure.

[hairypatches]

@SethExM Hi Seth. A very well done video. Well thought out. I guess that I am lost in the fact that people do not call transgender operations what I think they really are. In my view they are self mutilation. If your body is a temple of God, as LDS and other Christian denominations claim, wouldn't this type of procedure be considered defiling that temple? Wouldn't this put one who went through this out of favor with the God that made you? Just a thought. I look forward to your response.

[SethExM]

@hairypatches

I guess it could be considered self mutilation...if you consider surgery to repair other birth defects as self mutilation. Cleft palates, congential heart defects...those surgeries performed to improve the lives of the affected, if these are mutilations, then transgender operations are mutilations as well. People should just live (and die) with the bodies that God gave them....

[moorronnie]

@SethExM

I've seen this relation crop up several times. How is being born with a perfectly normal body a birth defect? Could the way a person feels about their race make skin color a birth defect? I don't understand the logic behind this argument. I do however, understand to a great deal the pain that a transgendered person goes through, since I am one myself. 

[stormelemental13]

@SethExM

Indeed I can see how this would be an uncomfortable for Church leaders. Regarding your last sentence, I disagree this policy would mean that transsexuals have no place in the Celestial Kingdom.(A silly name for a part of heaven) Throughout gospel history, several different groups within the church/covenant have been unable to enter the temple, or some parts of it. However, this did not mean that theologically they were considered to be lesser beings; however, socially they often were.

[moorronnie]

@SethExM

I wouldn't say in this case that not being allowed to have a temple recommend or the priesthood in this sense is due to being considered "less than worthy." It seems to me that it's more like it doesn't make sense to do that. Also there is much more to life and salvation than what we are able to do in this life while we are living. Having said that it is a complex situation.

[oshundayo]

Can't the Mormons be sued for not allowing membership to someone based on their transgeredism? Wasn't they going to get their tax exempt status taken away for not allowing blacks into the priesthood?

This is interesting. Are there any statistics for LDS transsexuals?

[MangaChocobo]

why is there any need to sue the LDS church, people practice what they believe. The only thing tho be done is start a new religion, dialectics two opposing theses becoming a new thesis. If the LDS church change its followers would be practicing a new beliefs and following a different religion themselves.

If one doesn't believe in the practices of a religion why bother being a part of it.

[mecko2123]

Well made video, great job.

[DutchCourageWhoohoo]

great video, you have a lot of courage, I'm an ex-mormon myself and wish you all the best living your free life :)

[DulceJaja]

Great vid; learned a lot. Kudos.

[DaErinx]

Great video! Now I'm curious on what the Jehovah's Witnesses think on this susbject. So far I got mixed opinions and everyone tells me to speak to a elder. I'm still trying though!

[a2audrey]

I enjoyed your well-spoken discription of the church rules and doctrine. I was reminded of the old quip, "I wouldn't want to be a menber of a club/group/church that would accept me as a member!

I noticed that some posters wrote that they were MTF, but weren't going to transition because they would lose their status in the church. I wish them well and hope it works for them.

From my experience and that of many others, this is not something one can avoid. It ultimately catches up.

[gothique11]

good vid, thnx for sharing! I was raised in the church, and all of that jazz... I went through a hard time, especially when they tried putting me through therapy for being who I am. I ended up trying to kill myself. I left the church after that, but it took a very long time to heal.

[staytrue122]

Mormons are brainwashed. I feel sorry for them.

[ksaf84]

i'm really not brainwashed dude. i'm a guy who attends college, plays in a a band. dabbles in politics and financial planning. i'm well educated and have a very open mind. i have friends of just about every faith and color. i think very clearly, i make my own choices. let us be the ones to decide if we are brainwashed or not. i have 2 siblings that are not active in the church at all and respect it's principles and people even though they don't follow it.

[Ragnark1]

I've been wondering about this issue as well. First, let me say that I am a faithful Mormon and understand the doctrine. My question relates to young children who are born with gender dysphoria. I have never heard the church's opinion on that issue. It may be possible (assuming the church is true) that these children were their precieved sex in the preexistance

[Doliath]

Why would God then cause them to be born in physical bodies of the opposite sex?

[SethExM]

Why would God cause babies to be born with cleft palates or spina bifida? God doesn't 'cause' these things to happen. They happen because we are born into a physical world where errors in gene coding/firing take place in the womb for myriads of reasons. Part of living in a physical world is living with the challenges that come from it. Denying that it occurs because "God doesn't make mistakes" is an pedestrian arguement.

[msbliss238]

Amen to that! Also, 1 in every 2000 babies are actually born intersexed.

[wereTrevor]

Wow, great information. Awesome video, thanks for sharing.

[adam1234a]

good video!

[milesprower2]

Stupid text limit. well I will try to keep this brief. Obviously you could not peruse your goal of changing your gender because of church policy, but this does not make the church untrue. So what has led you to believe it is not true then? I would like to hear that story.

[joycloud]

Joseph Smith was a womanizing lying terrorist. The scrolls from the pearl of great price were re-translated and they have nothing to do with anything they claim. It's instructions on burial rites. Free your minds!

I'm a SO of a MtF and it took her years to come to terms with church teachings and what was really real. Besides, according to church teachings after resurrection you will all be the correct gender then because your body will match your soul!

[milesprower2]

I am impressed with your doctrinal knowledge of the church. Most people in the GLBT community are very ignorant of the Mormon church. I would just like to add that another reason the church is against transsexuals is because a transgendered person cannot procreate as their new gender.

I am on an opposite side of the spectrum from you my friend. I am a MTF who has decided to stay with the church. obviously I have not taken any steps to transition.

[Doliath]

I'm in the same boat as you...

[VictorianDenise]

Way cool vid Seth! I'm ex lds I'm female 25 yrs now, had a temple marriage, 3 kids, spouse, house, the whole american "dream" and lost it all because of GID. I don't see the Church ever embracing anyone n "unconditional love" as it is preached. They don't have the answers, so they have to save face by making up all kinds of "rules" there are no rules to unconditional love, which to me is what the lord was all about. good work bro!

[startha7]

Since gender is what's between ones ears, and sex is dictated by anatomy/genatalia, Then do the mormons view gender and sex as the same thing?. A lot of people confuse the terms gender and sex as being the same thing when in fact they represent two different things.

[bigbuggie5]

Maybe wanting to be trans gendered is a trial or temptation

[confabulaterecluse]

Any Transgender person will tell you they don't want to be Transgender that they just want to feel normal. Its not a choice.

[blackkatsen]

Transsexuals aren't hated by the Church and the leaders aren't "afraid" of women trying to get the Priesthood. It's just that the Church does not believe that a mismatch between your body and mind exists. Thus, if you were to be transgender, then you would be flipflopping genders. This would mean renouncing the Priesthood if you were a man and asking to have it if you were a woman.

[shintashi]

I often wonder how the church resolves genetic variants such as XXY or ambigendered individuals, and how they cope with the various biblical references to Eunuchs (Isaiah 56).

[marcopolo8765]

I truely know and believe God has a plan for us all. Gay, straight, Bi, Trans sex, Trans gend. you just didnt go high enough up in the church. I know you have felt the spirit. It has left a mark upon you. Do you wish to feel connected to it again? There in you will find your answer. I am glad however that you have a new sense of self acceptance. The road you have walked must have been tough. Is there anything I can do to make it easier. I admire your courage.

A latter day saint

[marcopolo8765]

So do you blame the church. I have a gay brother. And I am LDS. It must be very difficult for someone such as yourself to accept that the bishop and his higher ups are still just men. Imperfect as any man or woman. Believe you me I express much empathy for your situation. But you expect men.... Called or not by God. To handle your very special situation perfectly. Thats a lot of faith in man you got going there. If I were you I would turn the head of the church. Christ himself.

[udderbutter]

Hi, your video coincides exactly with what I figured out myself when I realized I was transsexual. The rest of my family are all devout followers, and I dread the thought of coming out to them. There's no way they could reconcile it with their beliefs, and I expect they'd only try to convince me I'm wrong rather than accept me the way I am.

Also, the Asian person you talked about toward the end. Did they really detransition for the church? That would be awful. I hope they didn't.

[SethExM]

I only read about this story, and the writer didn't indicate that the transperson followed through with the church's requirements. I would be surprised if they did.

[rd1999]

I baptized a person that was born with confused genitalia and had a surgical assignment a birth as male, (castration) this person has spent part of their life living as male and part living as female. She was considered female by the church and was baptized as such but she was apart from an unnatural looking pair of breasts that grew because of hormone therapy this person was clearly male in appearance.

[HiveRadical]

You do not have it correct, in my view, as to the underlying reasons for our view on the concept of 'transgender.'

[SethExM]

That's ok. Since you are not the church president or one of the quorem of the twelve, you're opinion is simply that. You need not use 'our' since you can't speak for the entire church. I obviously am not the church president, so this is simply my take on the issue. Everyone is free to find the facts for themselves, and come to their own conclusions. I am just offering a piece for consideration.

[ramonswife]

Mormon's are not the only one's who are against transgender. It comes from the bible about sodem and gamora. Also they believe like u said that they r born in the body they are. It's not so far fetched, alot of religions believe that. they r not told to not associate, i have friends that r "gay/transgender". i dont think anyone should be on here being mean to u but in turn i dont think u should say as if the doctorine is wrong, it maybe for u but to others it makes perfect sense, thank u

[SethExM]

Mrs. Ramon, thanks for your opinion. First, Sodom & Gomorra had nothing to do with transgenders. Doesn't mention us at all in fact. On the topic of "a lot of religions think being transgender is wrong", at one time a lot of religions used the bible to justify slavery & the mistreatment of Blacks. Just because a lot of you are doing it doesn't mean that people should just sit back and allow you to do it without comment.

[SethExM]

The reason it's important for people like me to speak out is because there are transgenders being raised in the church, and there always will be. We were born this way without any choice or say in the matter. Church doctrine isn't a source of hope & joy for us as it is for those who can fit into the church mold. It's a source of pain & despair, and causes many to take their own lives. It's important to speak out to show there are alternative viewpoints to life as dictated by the mormon church.

[ramonswife]

Growing up and having certain family members and friends I went back and forth on the issue of transgender. I believe the prophet to be God's mouth piece I really honestly do. A few weeks ago I read a pamphlet by the prophet explaining that God does not put a woman spirit in a mans body nor the other way around I have nothing against transgender I just believe differently. You can never blame a religion or others for someone taking their own lives. That is a personal choice just like transgender

[SethExM]

Anyone who is not transgendered will already have a biased view of us simply because they have no way to relate with how we experiance the world. Those who truely get to know us will trust us enough to make the right decision for ourselves, and support us in our decision. Condemning the path that we take(most of us holding God's hand the whole way), proves that God does not speak through the mormon prophet.

[SethExM]

And, yes, you can hold an organization responsible for beliefs and practices that drive a person to commit suicide. The church preaches against people who are born with conditions they did not choose (transgenderism, homosexuality), but are good and faithful in every way. The mormon church places a stigma on these individuals that affects how these people are treated in the church and in their families. Any organization with such power is responsible for the consequences of wielding that power.

[royale67]

Being transgendered is not a personal choice. You are born this way.

[Dreaming2BTerri]

Great video. I have a friend who is Mormon and this really helps me to understand where she is coming from. She is a lesbian and is trying to change to hetero because of the church.

Lots of love.

Theresa

[SethExM]

Has she already confessed to her bishop how she feels? If not, tell her not to. Once they know you are struggling with homosexuality, they will flag your church records with it, and you will be monitered closely no matter where you live. If she has, it would be better to slowly become inactive in a non-obrusive way. Becoming hetero isn't going to happen... she is just going to end up pretending for the rest of her life then being filled with guilt for the deception.

[SethExM]

There is a great YahooGroup that is tightly guarded against outsiders for mormon lesbians. If she is interested in the group, tell me and I'll email you on the side.

[Dreaming2BTerri]

I will see her Wednesday night. I believe she told me that she had mentioned her thoughts to the church, but I do know she has a temple recommend.

Lots of love.

Theresa

[CaptJackSavvy]

That was really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[heartfeltfelony]

You've always been so "down to earth" and easy to listen to, especially when you speak on something close to your heart! This video is great and so honest & truthful! I'm sorry to hear you've recieved some 'not so nice' feedback. Remember, I'll beat up anyone that picks on my big bro!! Not that you need me to, but it gives me something to focus my anger on..lol Just kidding, Love you *DOG*!

[RobinJabez]

cool stuff man!

[gah1957]

Seth,

This was an excellent video presentation. I am a member of what used to be called the RLDS church. It is now called the "Community of Christ." I have found however that the CofC is far more welcoming and affirming of the LGBT community. I am a MTF TS (surgery in 4 days!) and have been taken in and shown a great deal of love and understanding. I love the church - mainly because they have taken me in without making any judgement. It's the first time love has been shown unconditionally.

[SethExM]

Thanks! There are actually a couple of RLDS aka Community of Christ churches around here, and I've thought of attending once or twice. I do go occasionally to a Universalist Untitarian Church which I really like. In general though, I've grown weary of the concept of organized religion. I think it is more important for me to find my own spiritual path without having to follow any one set of rules made up by an orginazation.

[corinna000]

AWESOME video! Thank you! I learned a lot and it was very professional.

[Jayhawke]

very nice primer on the LDS church; My stepson is in the LDS so I have stressed to him that while they don't approve of me and encouraging him to think outside of the box they are going to want him to think in.

**hug** I am happy to see you talking about your experiences

[sarahnjamie]

Very enlightening and I'm glad you made this vid. I find religion interesting and I like hearing about all the differences, as well as the similarities. Thanks!=)

[pigpen7471]

great video! very informative!