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From: slu2com
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  • No, our teachings aren't against God. We teach the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is His church. The Bible never says Christ is the only one with the priesthood. People like this guy completely misinterpret the Bible.

  • @majinish I was born in utah and my hole family is mormon... I cant stand the religion. Sorry but most (not all) mormons are very rude and prejudice. God wants us to be ourselves and live our lives the way we see and.. not have to have certain rules and a religion right? Im not a hater I just dont agree with any relgion but I do beleive in christ.

  • The truth about these Mormons is on my channel!

  • HAHAHAHA!!! wow this sucks.

  • What missionaries don't tell you! Joseph Smith had 33+ wives. 11 of those wives were married to living husbands.Eight of his wives were under 18. His 1st wife Emma did not know about the other wives. He kept it a secret from her.Why is it okay for JS to commit adultry over and over and have a religion worship him like he is a god?

  • .... where do people get this stuff? "His 1st wife, Emma, didn't know about these other 18 [wives]", but 200 years after the fact I somehow do.... what a load of hogs-wallow.

  • @veganvampira You learn something new everyday haha nice to know!!!

  • If you have made your peace and moved on then why are they still up? Hello.... what's the message?

  • They are like a diary of sorts. I've made new YouTube Channels, and put out new videos.  I haven't made a video at this channel for a long time.

  • On and on and on and on still nothing.... still a waste........ Wish I could get my last 10 minutes back.

  • The reason why I spent any time on Mormonism, is because for over 150 years, my family has been Mormon. I was raised Mormon. I have certain convictions about Mormonism as a result of my experience, and since Mormonism consumed 3/4 of my life. I feel like Mormonism is still very much a large part of my life. 90% of my friends and family are LDS.

    My videos are old. I said my peace and moved on. For example, this video was made in 2007.

    10 minutes? You keep coming back!

  • @Fonzie223 listen to the MORmON 'tard bitch about the lost ten minutes that would have gone by anyway. How many HOURS did you spend in MORmON meetings OR worse yet in the MORmON temple *Saving* the dead? How much bitching have you done about that lost time? exactly! thats why no one can take your stupid MORmON whining seriously! MORmON!

  • I want to talk to you a little bit now about something that is not missionary work, AND WHAT I SAY IS NOT TO BE GIVEN TO YOUR INVESTIGATORS [potential converts] by any matter of means.... Why is it that you are white and not colored?.. God is not unjust to cause a righteous spirit to be born as a cursed member of the black race.

    LDS European Mission President Alvin R. Dyer, For What Purpose?

    Missionary Conference in Oslo, Norway, March 18, 1961

    "The Negro in Mormon Theology", pp. 48-58

  • Extremely weak points

  • Yeah truth hurts thats tough shit isnt it

  • I'm sorry, you have to have an IQ over 50 to make a comment.

  • You're a mormon I'm a Catholic my words are valid yours are NOT.. as I said truth hurts thats tough shit

  • Nicely put teenyburger

  • You can always tell a cult by the way all the men end up having sex with lots of girls! What a load of crap you people are!

  • those beliefs are practiced by Fundamentalists not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

  • We have authority over you mormon assholes DEAL WITH IT, satan and joseph smith get together to USE JESUS CHRIST name on the mormons so called church just to try and fool Gods children and you pigs still blasphemize Christ by doing this

  • what are you even talking about?? you have authority over us? your a crazy person. or a baptist.

  • Say what you will mormon boy, the Catholics will always have authority over your mormon satanic cult

  • "the Catholics will always have authority over your mormon satanic cult" pot calling the kettle.

  • LDS Apostle Orson Pratt:

    ...it will be seen that the GREAT MESSIAH who was the founder of the Christian religion, WAS A POLYGAMIST...the MESSIAH chose...by MARRYING MANY honorable WIVES himself,show to all future generations that HE approbated the PLURALITY OF WIVES under the Christian dispensation,as well as under the dispensation in which His Polygamist ancestors lived.We have now clearly shown that GOD THE FATHER HAD A PLURALITY OF WIVES, one or more being in eternity...(The Seer, page 172)

  • Always funny how Mormons bash Baptists. Why are they the only demonination that Mormons seem to complain about? Is it because Baptists speak the real truth, and it hits home with Mormons? Can't argue with the truth.

  • God always has authority over satan, the Catholic Churches have authority over a satanic cult like mormonism

  • The catholic churches have no authority over any man save their own followers

  • The people who think they have to "correct" the LDS church have no authority to do so. They are simply using their own judgment, which could be false. Even Jesus warned against this type of behavior.

    Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged. 3 And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

    Matthew 7:2-3

  • If you've paid attention to the Bible Proverbs 27:5, or 1Thessalonians 5:21. You will realize that testing and proving all things is correct and true to the instructions of the Apostles.

    You talk about authority. I've done several videos on how the LDS authority is COMPLETELY unbiblical.

    How could the LDS have the priesthood of Aaron? Number 3:10 says ONLY the decent of Aaron can hold this priesthood!

    Are Mormons all decent of Aaron? I think not.

    See my other videos for more on this.

  • Again I repeat: Whatever measure you use in judging others, it will be used to measure how you are judged. 3 And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

    Matthew 7:2-3

    You have no more authority than the LDS. Be concerned with correcting your own errors rather than theirs.

  • "Be concerned with correcting your own errors rather than theirs. "

    And again, the LDS are claiming a false authority. Unless they are decent of Aaron, they can not claim Aaron's priesthood.

    Don't you use the lies of the LDS church, to pretend some authority that you don't have.

    It is not unBiblical to correct the Mormon church on their false doctrine. Ephesians 6. Proverbs 27:5. 1 Thes 5:21, etc..

  • "You have no more authority than the LDS."

    I certainly have no less. The LDS authority rests upon a priesthood being restored that has already been COMPLETED by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

    Even in ALL LDS priesthood holders were decent of the Jewish Cohen (priesthood of Aaron) which not many (if any) are. It doesn't even matter. 

    Jesus is priest (alone) forever more. Because He completed the duties of the priesthood once and for all! Forever and ever..

  • You have only given anti-statements about a faith and provided nothing positive about your own. God would be proud.

  • "provided nothing positive about your own."

    Are you incapable of reading any part of my statements except that which offends you? Like you wish to be offended by me?

    It was your choice to come here to my videos.

    And if you would read the very last statement I left. This is where ALL of my faith lies. This is the MOST important part about my faith.

    "Jesus is priest (alone) forever more. Because He completed the duties of the priesthood once and for all! Forever and ever.. "

  • Oh! Thanks for pointing out the positive statement. With your harsh attitude, it's hard to tell what's being said in love.

  • Sometimes love hurts.

  • And sometimes it isn't love at all.

  • Nepthu: "And sometimes it isn't love at all. "

    Slu2com: Don't get me wrong. Im not in love with LDS doctrine. And when it comes to some LDS doctrine I have nothing but comtempt for it, because of how ignorant, unbelievable, and destructive some of it is. Including and certainly not limited to doctrines that exclude race or creed from a close relationship with God.

    '

    I grew up as a Mormon, around Mormons and in a Mormon family. I love Mormon people. I don't like specific LDS doctrine.

  • Thanks for clarifying your position.

  • Anytime. Thanks for being polite.

  • Thats such an easy question as to why are people anti mormon, because you mormon dipshits anti mormon means anti satan

  • Oh and the Catholic Church will always have authority over the mormons satanic cult so called church

  • There is a reason that every city they tried to settle in tried to run them out of town. Come on people...this church was founded by a drunk. Throw away your magic panties and find a real religion.

  • omg u freakin' pepl. JOSEPH SMITH WAS NOT DRUNK! he saw god and jesus and they talked to him! I mean honestly, don't you think a person would think before he would lie like that? THAT WASN'T A LIE! COME ON!

  • You might ask yourself those same questions after you look into the other versions of the First Vision. There are at least four that I've found, and curiously, not one of them is in the BOM. You're also aware that the first mention of the First Vision wasn't made until some 18 years later, right?

  • Mormons are bigots and homophobes.

  • I'm Mormon and proud of it!

  • Have you noticed that women who join these whacko religions are girls no one would ever want to fuck? I plowed a moron in Utah last summer. She snuck out of her house and met me at gonad gulch, if you know what I mean! I churned her butter and curdled her cream all night then blsted my oatmeal all over her face. I like Morons. I think I'll get one.

  • me too!

  • Mormons are Christians, and it is arrogant and wrong for people to claim that Mormons are not when the Mormon church has been worshipping Jesus Christ longer than many of those who claim that only they are Christian.

  • If you took the book of Mormon to any authentic biblical scholar they would have trouble keeping a straight face while reading it. It's almost a parody of the true Gospel written by men that didn't even fully understand scripture. Even the premise is ridiculous. Why would God withold the "truth" for over 1800 years and then bury it in a hillside in North America?? Stick to the Bible folks...

  • you know...the mormons also use the bible. why does everybody insult the mormons? their life isn't yours. I'm a Mormon! and you all better stop insulting us awesome pepl! (well ur awesome too and god still loves you:))

  • "their life isn't yours."

    No, but if Mormons insist on knocking on my door, uninvited to tell me that my church has no authority. Then you better darn well expect me to correct them.

    Listen. I've never invited the missionaries to come to my house. Yet my wife and I can count 9 times that they have shown up on my door, uninvited to disrespect my faith and the history of my church.

    Is it not fair for me to correct them as I understand it?

  • If you were really a genuinely good nice guy claiming to follow god you would not put down other religion but respect their beliefs

  • By having done so much damage in the history of Man, the Bible has lost all credibility in my opinion. Case closed. Christians say to people that you should 'turn your other cheek'.. Well, the only thing I will turn from now on is the chance of any of my adversary's survival in the very near future.

  • I have felt the way you're feeling now. Believe it or not man. I truly felt so much anger man. And all of your accusations are true.

    I probably can't make it feel any better for you.

    But hey man, if you need some where to blow off steam. I understand that.

    When I would get way pissed off.. Long time back. I would grab my skateboard and hit it hard for a couple of hours.

    Anger was a remedy for pain. And skateboarding was a remedy for anger.

    It was a good balance.

  • Exactly! I don't hit things when I get angry, I usually throw and slam things LOL

    But to be serious again, I used to walk faaaar to remedy my anger. Then I'd come across the most beautiful, hidden places.. Then everything was forgotten and I walked back. Most of the time, I think it was anger because of injustice done to me. I hate injustice.

  • I was shocked to see the movie Dawn September. Killing children and women.. Wish I could have been there and split their skulls, disembowel them and paint my house with their blood. And I say this as a proud atheist.. To have a religion is one thing. But to abuse it to dominate other people makes me just wild of bloodlust. And I allow myself to, because I completely reject the Bible. It has done humanity more bad than good in its history. I don't care about any Christian's good intentions..

  • Ok, here it is, THE AARONIC (preparatory-)(definition-prec­eding)('Prepare the way") (preparing for something) priesthood was restored though John The Baptist. We know through scriture("But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose")that Jesus was superior in Priesthood to John, or he would be the one baptising people.

  • John said "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire". So who didn't have authority superior to John, well It wasn't Jesus. Because he did have the priesthood when the Holy Ghost descended upon him, or is there some other semantic, from some other unrelated source?

  • John said ""I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire". So who didn't have authority superior to John, well It wasn't Jesus. Because he did have the priesthood when the Holy Ghost descended upon him, or is there some other semantic, from some other unrelated source?

  • Jesus has always been a high priest, always will be. How did he create the universe, if not with His father's power. Or is the priesthood just for us yokels. The tag Royal Prieshood that you bandy about like a tennis ball you invented, has been around since before time began. It was, now get this, (Restored!!) to the apostles apsotles of Jesus Christ through Jesus Christ. Wake up!

  • Now the spiel you gave about respecting your Mormon neighbors, and promptly following up with a satirical bashing really adds to your credibility. You are a stumbling block to yourself and everyone else who watches this, and takes it seriously. Sucks to be you, just kidding, just a little quid pro quo.

  • And the part about hating sin and not yourself goes on so long, that one might postulate that you have a case of "me thinks thou dost protest too much"

  • The same could be said of your six consecutive posts.

  • Said the user who quoted the Bible, trying to sound more like a mainstream Christian.

  • JESUS CHRIST IS THE HIGH PREIST

  • JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY HIGH PREIST

  • u people are the cause of war in the world ..picking on Mormon  dude lot of this war..are b/c people fight over region

  • Coming to my blog, and attacking me doesn't further demonstrate your point again me.

    Your attack could easily be construed as an offense.

    You are equally guilty of causing "war" as I am.

    (btw- SLU2com and UtahPirateRadio are the same)

    If you are going to come here with accusations and personal attacks. Maybe you should be such a hypocrite about it. thanks!

  • Alvin R. Dyer an apostle 1961...I want to talk to you a little bit now about something that is not missionary work,and what I say is not to be given to your investigators by any matter of means....Why is it that you are white and not colored:...Is God such an unjust person that He would make you white and free and make a Negro cursed under the cursing of Cain that he could not hold the Priesthood of God?...Those who have been cursed in the pre-existence were born through this lineage of Ham...

  • thats fine but don't say every mormon is evil and spread hate.

  • I LOVE ALL PEOPLE MY HEART CRIES OUT TO THE MORMONS AND LDS PEOPLE. THEY TRUST THE MAN jsMIHT OVER THE WORD OF GOD. GOD AND THE PROPHET JS CAN NOT BOTH BE TRUE. ONE IS TRUE THE OTHER FALSE. I TRUST GOD AND HE ALONE.

  • The spirt of the lord dwells in me and will never be removed. Please Please Please quit spreading your lies. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor. Its a sin. Repent and pray for we love you as does GOD. We wish to correct no one and you are not a son of perdition yet. Its not to late to quit Satans will and return to the House of GOD. He still loves you.

  • behindzioncurtain. com

  • I guess you haven't done any research other than what the church allows, eh?

  • As latter day saints we are incoraged to be great historians and record keepers. Its a huge part of religion. So I dont know where most people like you come up with the idea the church controls anything we do. The church incourages us to research, study,and keep records of our history. We are the best at it in the world. If you would like to know about something that happend in the past ask a saint. We are the only ones that actually know and have proof of historical events. Would you like help.

  • Okay, why don't Mormons use the Joseph Smith "inspired" version of the Bible?

  • What historical proof (Archaelogical, Linguisitc, Biological) do you or does anyone in the Mormon church have that confirms the book of Mormon? There is mountain of evidence that confirms the Bible.

  • You haven't been following along; I'm not a Mormon.

  • Read "Book of Mormon Authorship" and you will never question it again.

  • People of the world think they are smarter than God.The Holy Bible is God's Word but man wants to make god into their own kind of God. they do this by adding too God's Word or taking something away from His word. Revelation 22:18-21. I find it sad that many people beleive God needs help from man for us to understand TheBible. the Bible does not need the Book of Mormon to teach Scripture in the Bible.The Mormon church is a cult. I wish all the members could look for truth in the Bible.

  • FRANCOIS AUGUSTE CHATEAUBRIAND French Writer 1768-1848 Christianty is perfect; Men are imperfect.Now a perfect consequence can not spring from an imperfect principle.Christianty, thereforeis not the work of men,it can come from none but God.If it came from God men can not have acquired a knowledge of it except by Revelation.

  • "Sorry but your other gospel in galatians refers to the judaisers"

    Paul gave a perpectual instruction, that if ANYONE brings ANY OTHER GOSPEL, let him be accursed.

    Not JUST one group or another. Not just one gospel or another.

    Using words like ANY, is pretty inclusive and static.

  • And how should fullfill relevation 14:6 in your opinion? You know, these things must fullfill before the second coming of Jesus. And they happened. By Moroni. And when he appear many will claim, why nobody has informed us? Now, they are informed, but you have not been ready to listen

  • How to fulfill the great commission?

    Christianity has reached far and wide. Has been translated into hundreds of languages and customs.

    Im not sure what you are getting at. Expound please.

  • ". Lds prophet's don't talk as you claimed, out of context as you used for josephs vision."

    That is your opinion.  I encourage anyone who is interested in the points made in this video, to look up the information themselves.

  • creeds of men as the nicene creed were abominable, not the sincere beliefs of people. Lds prophet's don't talk as you claimed, out of context as you used for josephs vision.

    That proverbs can be used for mormons too, so can mormons use your ephesians and galatians too. Sorry but your other gospel in galatians refers to the judaisers who wanted to implement mosaic rituals and works into the gospel of christ and paul was talking about peter doing it out of fear, read the chapters 2 and 3.

  • Slucom, you may not hate mormons but I am deeply offended by them. My ancestors skin did not turn brown because they turned away from God. I can't imagine what a black person would think! According to Mormons, they are more evil than my ancestors. What a bunch of racists? Sorry, but they deserve to be persecuted! And what about women and gays! They should be even more offended than I! I think I could go on with the people they offend but I'll stop right here!

  • Did you know that the church taught that blacks who joined would become white? And it hasn't happened yet.

  • The church has never taught that.

  • Really? The BOM states it clearly.

    "...And their (the Lamanites) curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites; And their young men and their daughters became exceedingly fair..." (3 Nephi 2:14-16)

  • This is really racist. And you adore this book? It is no wonder you people are hated. You should be. Didn't you know that Cain killed Able then turned Cain Mormon and sent him to Utah.

  • You aren't following along either; I'm not a Mormon nor have I ever been.

  • You're absolutely wrong about this.BTW, there is no other church that offers blacks greater levels of salvation than the LDS church and they ALWAYS have!

  • You're referring to now, but it wasn't always so. If you believe otherwise, I can bury you with proof that past prophets, apostles, and elders claimed that blacks were cursed and would not attain the statehood.

  • Your quotes will have been taken out of context or skewed. Blacks have always had the promise of exaltation in the celestial kingdom.Don't bother sending quotes because I won't persue them.I know what I know.And yes, I do study the complete history of the LDS church but only that which is credible and unbiased.

  • So you're saying that it doesn't matter what your own leaders have said because you're going to pick and choose what supports your argument, right? Methinks I smell fear in the air. If you're right, what threat could I possibly pose? You study your own entire history, huh? You show me a good Mormon and I'll show you someone who knows very little about their own faith.

  • Hey, I'm a mormon...and I have been since I was born. I have so many black people in my church, I couldn't even count! Oh my gosh...you know you're making that up...TOTALLY!

  • Oh, how I was hoping someone would try that tactic!

    I recently found this in the Book of Abraham: "Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. (Abraham 1:20-27)

    And since you claim to know so many black Mormons, can you tell me if any of them have turned white like Zelph?

    "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites..." (3 Nephi 2:14-16)

  • I would like those quotes. I'm Mormon and I greatly disagree with the idea that Mormons are racist. I know many black Mormons. Did you know that one of the reasons cited for "runnin' the mormons out of Missouri" was because of their stand on emancipation. In fact, the year Joseph Smith was martyred he was running for president on an emancipation platform. Singling the mormons of the 20s-60s out as the "only racist church" is just as ridiculous as today's argument on prop 8 against Mormons!

  • I never said that the LDS was the only racist church, nor does it matter. That's not the point.

    But since you brought it up, do you know any Lamanites that have turned white? It's very clear in the BOM that they will if they follow the church.

    Surely there must be one white Lamanite out there.

  • Also (ran out of room, needed two posts) I like what you've done here. I'm Mormon myself, and I'm not at all offended by what you say. I don't really take many of the things the prophets have said as a strong rebuke to other churches as you do, but I completely understand why many people would feel that way. I also agree that members of any church should be able to listen to criticism without getting all flustered and angry about it.

  • Why? The Mormon prophet speaks the word of God, does he not? To take the church at its word is to make all of its apostles and prophets equal and therefore one should find no inconsistancies, correct?

  • I've found that Utah Mormons can be VERY un-Christian and uncivil.  In the northeast where I am, however, there are plenty of Mormons (well, there aren't so many...plenty compared to the total number) who are great people and even scientists instead of creationist drones.

  • i lived in utah for 8 years. and i am ani-mormon. many people treated me well until they found out i was not mormon then since i would not convert i lost many friends and was even attacked because i wore my cross. they are brought up from very little to only be with thier own people and that people that are not lds will go to hell when they die. i have change the minds of a few while i was in utah infact changing some missioniars as well.

  • infact i simi converted a female missionary to the point of she wanted to marry me and convert to my religion. her family hated me but intime they wanted her to marry me to. i was married to a mormon once as well her family hated me at first i mean they were mean to me as hell. but in time i got them to change thier minds so far enough that the wrote in thier will that i would get thier kids. but still high school in utah is very bad place for non-mormon and worse for non-white.

  • 3. If the intent isn't to bring souls to Christ then what is it? Given the levels of animosity, half-truths, even lies (which only serves to drive away the Spirit which could, should, and WOULD testify of truth to the participants on BOTH sides of the "debate") I can only conclude the agenda is corrupt from the outset.

    So...debate as you like...I for one am completely turned off to anyone armed for battle as opposed to reaching out in love and good will. I'm glad it led me to my own research

  • "So...debate as you like...I for one am completely turned off to anyone armed for battle as opposed to reaching out in love and good will. I'm glad it led me to my own research "

    Im glad you are happy with your decisions. Thanks for sharing. Im not at all upset that you tried to bash my intents here.

    Ephesians 6

  • Ok...after not getting a satisfactory answer to my question a few days ago about why all the negative hoopla targeted at Mormons (and from professed Christians!), I decided to peruse some other forums and came to a couple of conclusions after reading reams of dialogue:

    1. Sharing the gospel is sharing the GOOD NEWS for the express purpose of bringing souls TO CHRIST.

    2. There isn't much sharing of any good news to be found in these forums

  • "So...debate as you like...I for one am completely turned off to anyone armed for battle as opposed to reaching out in love and good will. I'm glad it led me to my own research "

    Im glad you are happy with your decisions. Thanks for sharing. Im not at all upset that you tried to bash my intents here.

    Ephesians 6

  • Ok...I decided to peruse some other sites and try to get a feel for why all the negative hoopla about Mormons. Not having gotten a satisfactory answer to my question of a few days ago about why they are targeted for such animosity (and coming from professed Christians at that!), I have come to a couple conclusions:

  • "So...debate as you like...I for one am completely turned off to anyone armed for battle as opposed to reaching out in love and good will. I'm glad it led me to my own research "

    Im glad you are happy with your decisions. Thanks for sharing. Im not at all upset that you tried to bash my intents here.

    Ephesians 6

  • Actually..thank YOU! You were kind enough to take the time - much appreciated!

    But you never really told me (when I originally asked) just what your intents were and I guess that's what I was looking for (maybe could have expressed it that way but hadn't formulated the question at that point).

    At any rate I suppose if nothing else - it will get people like me thinking and for that I can thank you as well. My pursuits were time consuming but led me in some interesting directions.

  • "But you never really told me (when I originally asked) just what your intents were and I guess that's what I was looking for (maybe could have expressed it that way but hadn't formulated the question at that point)."

    Maybe you didn't listen to this video.

    I stated what my intents are precisely in this video.

    I explain why I reject LDS doctrines, and why I do it publicly. Try listening to the video again. This is part 1 of 2. So you may want to listen to the 2nd one too??

    L8rz

  • Let me say that I originally began to wonder when I ran across a video of Brooke White from American Idol singing that amazing unplugged version of Pat Benatar's "Love is a Battlefield" and saw some venomous anti-Mormon postings (didn't know she was Mormon). What elicits this knee-jerk response to these people and their leaders assuming ANY leader - ANY religion would be found wanting under that same scrutiny? Can't shake this question!

  • "What elicits this knee-jerk response to these people and their leaders assuming ANY leader - ANY religion would be found wanting under that same scrutiny? Can't shake this question! "

    I've explained it before. It is no coincodense. The LDS faith from the very beginning, in fact the very moment that Joseph Smith decided to start his own religion, was the point that he started bashing every other "creed", and since then, it never stopped. The knee-jerk reaction, is just that, a Re-action

  • I apologize that my original question still seems largely unanswered. If it's true - and I believe it is - that there is hardly a religion and/or religious leader past or present that could endure this kind of scrutiny and come out unscathed, then it begs the question - why Joseph Smith? Why the Mormons?

  • "why Joseph Smith? Why the Mormons? "

    You see it as only Joseph Smith that went through scrutiny? LOL, you would be incorrect. Many people, for many different causes suffered more than JS did.

    But look at the history, thats why. Joseph Smith started a foney bank, ripped dozens of people off with foney bank notes. Destroyed a printing press and limited the free speech of others. Was directly related to an assinination attempt of Governor Boggs of Missouri, and the list goes on and on.

  • Those of us imperfect humans fall short of living up to such high standards are demonized by those who can point out a black dot on a white sheet of paper. Too busy pointing out the mote to acknowledge the beam.

  • I can say that I have been an aweful person too. But I've never declared my cruel, or selfish deeds to be in the name of the Lord.

    When Joseph Smith was prophet, he ordered the destruction of the printing press (to limit their free speech), started the foney bank ripping people off for over 150 thousand 1840's dollars (worth millions today), and was directly related to many violent deeds carried out by Mormons under his rule.

    Differnce.  He declared it in the name of the Lord.

  • You may have views of some things JS may have done as you see it but I ask does it have any connection to whether or not the BOM is true?

    Can you at least admit that your guessing by virtue of your attitude towards JS that the BOM isnt what it says it is?

    And what do you mean that Joseph Smith didn't know these things by the Holy Spirit?

    That was out of left field and contradicts his teachings and convictions about the Holy Spirit(Holy Ghost).

  • "And what do you mean that Joseph Smith didn't know these things by the Holy Spirit? "

    Like I said. IF Joseph Smith KNEW that he saw Jesus and the Father (two heavenly beings), he did KNOW until 1838, because 8 other accounts (one written by himself in 1832) made no reference to both of these heavenly beings. Either he forgot, or didn't KNOW both beings were there in 1820 until 1838??

    Like I said, the most important event in human history, and he FORGOT he met the Father?

  • Nothing in the first account states that there was only one personage, just because this account only mentions one personage doesn't mean there was only one. If I met the vice president, and I was accounting my specific interaction with him, and I didn't mention the president in this account, doesn't mean he wasn't there.

    The emphasis of the 1832 account was that the Lord visited him and that his sins were forgiven.

    If we look at his Four accounts, we find they really are in harmony.

  • There were 9 total accounts of this event. None of them match up.

    Some say it was Jesus alone, some say it was angels, some say it was an angel, even Brigham Young confessed it wasnt Jesus that JS met, that it was an angel. His own mother testified a similar account.

    But Joseph met God the Father, and it took him 18 years to account for this meeting?

    If I had met God the Father, it wouldn't take me long to write it down on paper at very least.

  • Even with all these conclusions you come to with your self qualified position, it has zero weight when regarding the truth about JS or the BOM or this Church.

    That is my point in a nutshell, its all just rhetoric and has nothing do with truth and false.

    You are not coming up with these arguments either obv. These poor theories about authorship etc are really just laughable guesses made by other ignorant or disaffected peeps.

    But we have free agency so have fun!

  • "You may have views of some things JS may have done as you see it but I ask does it have any connection to whether or not the BOM is true?"

    Whether the Book of Mormon is true or not is an ENTIRELY different subject, which I have most certainly covered small aspects of this topics in other videos.

    The video that we are discussing right now, is "why are people anti-Mormon", not whether the BofM is true. However, that is a good topic, check my other videos.

  • There are 9 different accounts of the so-called First Vision. 2 of the accounts were hand written by Joseph Smith himself.

    I made a youtube video about it:

    First Vision of Joseph Smith ( Mormon )

    youtube. com/watch?v=dz7JSwpIXTU

  • Where can I read those 2 accounts?

  • "Where can I read those 2 accounts? "

    First Vision of Joseph Smith ( Mormon )

    youtube. com/watch?v=dz7JSwpIXTU

  • If anybody is interested in the other side of this, just type in "first vision accounts" at fairldsdotorg

  • For a non-whitewashed POV on this, type in "first vision" at  irr. org

    It's always good to get more than one side of the story.

  • You seem to not understand that it has no bearing on religious truth, regardless. lol.

    All these so called issues, don't make something true or untrue.

    There are Atheist convinced against God like you against Mormonism, so who cares, it has no baring on religious truth

    You either know something of God is true by the Holy Spirit or you don't. That is the only criteria for having a testimony of God and his church that we all can personally trust beyond any human made skepticism and doubt.

  • "You either know something of God is true by the Holy Spirit or you don't."

    Be that as it may. But Joseph Smith didn't seem to remember the most important event in human history from one year to the next.

    God visits him, and restores His church on earth (allegidly).  The MOST important event in human history. And Joseph Smith doesn't KNOW it?

    You say "You either know of God is true by the Holy Spirit or you don't".

    The point is, Joseph Smith didn't.

  • JS was just quoting JC. Don't kill the messenger. Oops, too late.

  • Lets pretend that Joseph smith didn't contridict his first vision story over a half dozen times. Sometimes saying it was ONLY Jesus, other times it was Jesus and God, other times just angels... And his first hand written account of the story, he said that HE came to that conclusion (of the other churches being corrupt) before he ever prayed in the woods..

    Joseph Smith was quote Joseph Smith.

  • gotcha...but here's where I'm coming from -

    I was raised in the Catholic church and only as an adult did I even begin to learn about the troubled history of my religion - oppressions, tryannies, abuses. I have to believe it monumentally overshadows anything you could pick apart in the Mormon religion. The attention the Mormon church gets seems to far outweigh the perceived offenses. Why are they such a big deal in these forums?

  • Where the Catholic church gets a break, is that they didn't start off with inquisitions. Their purpose to begin with wasn't to defile, and kill others.

    If you look at LDS history, Joseph Smith's first order of business was to declare the other religions (all) "Abominations" and "corrupt", etc. But it didn't end there. There were decades of verbal and physical bashing in the very beginning. The Nauvoo Expositor getting destroyed, and finally the Mountain Meadows Massacre and such.

  • And then lets continue to the present day. Such as in Utah, where the LDS church continues to defy democracy, free speech, and private choices when their top ranking members get elected to publical office, and then enforce a theocratic lifestyle even on those who are no Mormon in the state. Buying up city property (without public input), including a huge part of Main Street in the busiest part of town, and then enforcing their religious standards on the property, despite the public easement...

  • It is more apparent now then ever before that the truth really doesn't matter to most, but in all aspects, not just religion.

  • It's true. Most LDS people don't know about the Nauvoo Expositor, the Mountain Meadows Massacre, or the vile statements of early church leaders. Most LDS don't know that Brigham Young petitioned the legislature to legalize slavery.

    I grew up in Utah, as a Mormon and these major historical points were never taught in any learning environment that I attended. Why? To white wash LDS history.

    So you are right as you say "truth really doesn't matter" to some anyway.

  • Try reading quotes straight from the source. Give me one example where JS (in his words) saw just one. Lots of people misquote JS. In fact he's probably the most misquoted person in US history.

  • First Vision of Joseph Smith ( Mormon )

    youtube. com/watch?v=dz7JSwpIXTU

  • JS never wrote about his first vision until he was in his twenties. That can be read in certain copies of the BoM and in the D&C. It very clear he saw God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. Sorry stike one, what was the next one?

  • First Vision of Joseph Smith ( Mormon )

    youtube. com/watch?v=dz7JSwpIXTU

  • I find it fascinating that with all the world's religions - their distinctions and differences - that the Mormon church is repeatedly singled out. There are so many theologies that deviate from the Christian traditions in their doctrines, that I cannot for the life of me understand this phenomenon.

  • It's no coincodence that the LDS church gets negative attention. From the beginning, and what started the LDS church, was Joseph Smith talking trash on all of the other churches.

  • (continuation from number 1) Yah people might not understand alot about it but that gives you no right to go out there in public and say those things about my church, cuz number one you know that that is not true and and number two that might offend ppl...like seriously you should think about others for once and not just about urself. Just because you dont like mormons doesnt mean that you have to go out there and ruine everyone elses life...I WANT THIS REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!!

  • "I WANT THIS REMOVED!!!!!!!!!!! "

    Interesting. Instead of addressing the issues, you call me a liar, and ask for this video to be removed.

    If it wasn't true, then why the knee-jerk reaction and the attempt at censorship?

    Just curious??

  • SCREW YOU!!!! you know what!!!!im a mormon thank you very much.and if thats what you think about our church then you think that. I know for a fact that that is not true and trust me when the judgement day comes you will be the one who feels sorry not me or any other of my mormon friends.

  • "SCREW YOU!!!! "

    Ahh, the golden rule. And by their fruits you shall know them..

  • LDS

    1 Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, during a special conference of elders of the Church, held at Hiram, Ohio, November 1, 1831. HC 1: 221--224. Many revelations had been received from the Lord prior to this time, and the compilation of these for publication in book form was one of the principal subjects passed upon at the conference. This section constitutes the Lord's Preface to the doctrines, covenants, and commandments given in this dispensation.

  • Interestingly enough, nearly all of the "revelations" given to Joseph Smith fell down and never came about.

    Joseph Smith did accurately predict the civil war, but he predicted it right before it was about to happen. Saying that it would be the north against the south, and it would start in North Carolina. OF COURSE!! NC was recruiting at that time.

  • Revelations from God are what He wants us to know. There is nothing that says taht all revelations from God MUST be prophecies, and that prophets are predictors of the future.

    Many of his revelations were NOT prophecies. No wonder, non-prophecies can't come true, cause they aren't prophecies.

  • "There is nothing that says taht all revelations from God MUST be prophecies, and that prophets are predictors of the future. "

    However, the revelations of Joseph Smith that were indeed prophecies about future events DID NOT come true.

  • No, actually, very few of them were actual prophecies. Most were commandments or admonisments.

    I mean, you can SAY they were prophecies, but that's like calling a dog's tail a leg; doesn't mean the dog now has five legs. Because if you don't even believe our works are scripture, then you can't EVEN begin to tell us what is and is not prophecy. That's up to us.

  • "No, actually, very few of them were actual prophecies. Most were commandments or admonisments. "

    When Joseph Smith says "it will come to pass, in this generation". Or "if this group does not repent, they will crumble and fall apart", etc. I mean if you apply that same thing to Biblical texts, that mam is a prophecy.

    Now if in Joseph Smith's case, what he calls a leg is actually a tail. I don't find that unusual. Double talk is a very common occurance in LDS lore.

  • If a prophecy is conditional, like you say here. God says, "if you do ABC, I will do XYZ", then if "you" doesn't do ABC, then XYZ will not take place.

    And most prophecies ARE conditional.

    Give me some specific prophecies you are thinking of.

  • I could list about 1/100th of the context in 500 charactors here in this blog, or I could make another 10 minute video and try to squeeze as much as possible into that.

    The point is, that I wouldn't want you to feel cheated by my responses lacking enough context. Many Mormons want volumes on context to work with when weaving apologetics together. But I want to accomodate and give PLENTY of context.

    But, as a sample, I venture to say 66 of the Missouri prophecies of Joseph Smith failed.

  • can you give me a section o the D&C or something? I can look it up. I can't find any prophecies, except MAYBE the one about the Civil war.

  • Yeah, I am going to make an entire video on the matter. I want to be able to reference the context, and give my opinion on the matter to. With only 500 charactors I can not do that.

    Look up "Missouri Prophecies". Type it into google, you will find MANY references on the subject matter. That will give you an idea of what I am going to make my video about.

    There are particularly 66 of these Missouri prophecies that I am going to address (or try to, in 10 minutes).

  • exmormon. org/prophet.htm

  • Jsoeph Smith didn't say anything about a generation, it was God who said it. So, if it's not during your generation, that's something youneed to take up with God.

    And "if(something) then(something)", that's CONDITIONAL. For the secong something to take place, the first something must be done and if it's not, then the second something is not, and it's not a PROPHECY. Which is something that was quite common for th Mormons in Missouri. There were many excommunications during that period.

  • "Jsoeph Smith didn't say anything about a generation, it was God who said it. So, if it's not during your generation, that's something youneed to take up with God."

    Then God is the liar? Sorry, again even more unbleievable than Joseph being a liar.

  • And double talk is not the occurance, it's how you interpret vs. how we say it is, and WE are the best experts on what Mormons believe. WE know a darn sight more about what WE believe than you ever will. Sorry.