@pCriistopher That's a leap...I think it is fair to collect more taxes from someone who makes more. It should be on a straight line % though, not progressively increasing levels that have been arbitrarily created. Eliminate the loopholes and then you have something. Check out my videos on the advantages of a real fair flat tax.
@brianboheim Because you're able to use yourself as an example you choose to ignore the working poor and that not everyone has the same opportunities that others have gotten. I'm not talking about the ghetto father who spends his money on rims, but the one who doesn't have enough money to do anything but support bare minimum life for his family that despite how hard he may work will never see a chance at getting ahead with the gap widening as it is. He's going to value a dollar pretty highly.
@Kroama First, how does a progressive tax help the average worker? That person doesn't have the money to hire tax consultants to prevent him from overpaying. He/She doesn't own assets that allow them to take advantage of the tax loopholes created within that tax structure.
I must emphasize again that the person who is just getting by should be working with his/her children to expand their education so they have it better. The shift in economic classes happens over generations thru education.
So you're trying to claim that just working hard you are able to get anywhere you want in today's society? Surely there are those are are lazy and without money, but I've seen many others who work harder than anyone I've ever known for the bare minimum with no sight of moving forward. It is wrong to have a complete redistribution of income, but it is stupid to ignore the healthy distribution and move further and further toward a 3rd-world distribution of income in to fewer hands as we are.
@Kroama Yes, that is what I'm saying. If you work hard and smart, then you and more importantly, your future generations will have the chance to be more successful and climb the economic ladder. I came from a hard working blue color family without a high school diploma holder among them. My brother and I, due to their efforts went to modest colleges and made more for ourselves...our children in turn have worked hard and gone to better schools and now are further.
@Kroama The problem is that everyone wants it for themselves and they aren't willing to make the big changes to succeed. It isn't just sweat, but it's also getting an education, its about starting a business on your own, its about changing careers midstream, even when things are going well because things never stay the same. Stop taking my money and let me hire more employees. Stop redistributing and let me share the wealth through the natural economics of capitalism.
Maybe you're the kind of guy that would take his extra earnings and hire more employees. But I can tell you right now you're the minority from that upper percentile. There are examples out the wazoo of executives in corporations laying off employees while they fly around in private jets and live in extravagant houses. You're focus is the laziness and greed of lower class expecting to be paid by the government to not work hard. You're forgetting the greed of the wealthy.
Invidious comparison;trying to make his social status greater than everyone else through the things he buys and finds a greater utility in that than security for his family that likely needs it more.With inflation you're just increasing the price level;lowering the real value of the dollar.A person's personal value is more geared toward his real income and how much the dollar actually buys, with so much more real income taking increasing amounts from it means less the more he has to start. Game?
@Kroama What??? Your original argument was that a dollar has a different value to a rich person versus a poor person. My argument is that a dollar is a unit of measure like a foot or an ounce. It is the same for everyone. your premise is flawed and biased. It is based on a Communist/Socialist ideal that wealth should be shared. It is a failed ideal and is in part what is causing this elongated economic suffering.
@brianboeheim I'm acknowledging it does buy the same amount in either hands, but that the poor person's hands it holds much more value because they have less and more needs and hence has a personal value.
Are you suggesting that we should allow the distribution of income to become even worse than it is already?
@Kroama In old Soviet Union and the people's Republic of China they tell people how much they should have and how much it should mean to them. I watched the bread lines and the government managed redistribution of wealth. In this country, we should be free to work as hard as we want and to value our wealth individually. You're desire to apply your map of the how I should feel about my wealth sniffs of a very different america than I want to live in.
@Kroama Yes, I'm saying that the distribution of wealth should be a natural part of our free market. I came from very little and found success through hard work and perseverance, not redistribution. That you want to take my hard earned wealth is wrong, and that you want to take away someone else's experience of earning their way to success is even more wrong. A simple flat tax with no deductions is the fairest and easiest method of providing proportional taz revenue. Watch my video on it.
A dollar is completely different in different people's hands. If you're someone making 1 million dollars per year, the marginal utility of another dollar is far less than if you're only working for 30k per year. Even with an extremely progressive tax, the value of a dollar for the person making so much more is still far below that of someone whom has a very small income.
@Kroama I love it when economists and philosophers pour this B.S. onto undergrads who believe it because it sounds so righteous. Only people who feel guilty about their wealth, never had to work for it, or never had any to speak of believe that crap. A dollar is a dollar...it buys the same in a poor man's hand then it does in a rich ones. You are a mind reader if you think you can tell me how much a dollar means to me. This is the kind of alchemy that gets us into trouble.
@brianboeheim It will buy the same amount in either hands, but because of the sheer amount of money the there is a different feeling when buying something. You have to live off of 100$ for the week, and someone else only 10$ for the week. Yes, each person could buy a pound of hamburger for 2$, but with so much more money the man with 100$ may not think twice, while someone on 10$ has to make every dollar count.
(To clarify, I'm not bothered by anything but this of the disadvantages you state)
@Kroama If what you say is true, than how come so many people on assistance smoke? At $5.00 a pack it would seem to me that this would be an easy choice. Heck, i can afford that kind of habit but i value my hard earned check too much to watch it literally go up in smoke. Everyone values a $ differently and it can be based on how many you have, but watching poor people at the Indian casino tells me that your theory is flawed.
@Kroama You claim that dollars have less value to a wealth person than a poor person. If that is the case, why do so many poor people smoke, drink, and gamble. This is a waste of their money and flies in the face of your argument. On the other side of the coin, there are wealthy people who hold every dollar close. Your argument would be like saying an inch isn't the same for a tall person and a short person, or a lbs are different for fat people and skinny people. Measures are objective!
@brianboeheim Ah. Well surely you hear a lot of short people complaining about how short they are, and have you not heard them talk about how they grew a few millimeters as though it is something substantial? Even though the measurement is the same, the value to the person is personal. Also, if you want to talk about addictions like that, they are abstract from normal demand; as rather than having a normal downward slope, people are willing to give up more and more to get extra amounts of it.
@Kroama Okay, let's move away from addictive things. How about the young man with two kids and a wife who spends half his paycheck pimping his ride instead of buying milk for his kids? A dollar is a dollar. You are attaching an emotional multiplier which makes is impossible to spread across an entire society. How can someone talk about inflation or deflation and yet say that money is worth more to one person than another? It is a game to rationalize a certain point of view.
Fair Flat-Tax makes the most sense considering ease of use and and transparency. Most families would finally be able to read and understand the tax code and the simplicity of it will make it so much easier to catch those who evade. You could literally get rid of the current role of the IRS and save billions in doing so.
@Mauhadeeb28 I like the way you think...did you check my earlier video out on a Fair Flat Tax with a 0% corporate tax?...we are running in parallel on this issue.
@Mauhadeeb28 I couldn't agree more...I'm going to follow this one with videos on the FairTax, Fair Flat-Tax, and the VAT Tax. I'm going to stay object, but I do have a favorite.
Is it fair to tax someone more who who got pulled up the ladder through nepotism than a hard laborer who's talent isn't economics?
pCriistopher 7 months ago
@pCriistopher That's a leap...I think it is fair to collect more taxes from someone who makes more. It should be on a straight line % though, not progressively increasing levels that have been arbitrarily created. Eliminate the loopholes and then you have something. Check out my videos on the advantages of a real fair flat tax.
brianboeheim 7 months ago
@brianboheim Because you're able to use yourself as an example you choose to ignore the working poor and that not everyone has the same opportunities that others have gotten. I'm not talking about the ghetto father who spends his money on rims, but the one who doesn't have enough money to do anything but support bare minimum life for his family that despite how hard he may work will never see a chance at getting ahead with the gap widening as it is. He's going to value a dollar pretty highly.
Kroama 8 months ago
@Kroama First, how does a progressive tax help the average worker? That person doesn't have the money to hire tax consultants to prevent him from overpaying. He/She doesn't own assets that allow them to take advantage of the tax loopholes created within that tax structure.
I must emphasize again that the person who is just getting by should be working with his/her children to expand their education so they have it better. The shift in economic classes happens over generations thru education.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
So you're trying to claim that just working hard you are able to get anywhere you want in today's society? Surely there are those are are lazy and without money, but I've seen many others who work harder than anyone I've ever known for the bare minimum with no sight of moving forward. It is wrong to have a complete redistribution of income, but it is stupid to ignore the healthy distribution and move further and further toward a 3rd-world distribution of income in to fewer hands as we are.
Kroama 8 months ago
@Kroama Yes, that is what I'm saying. If you work hard and smart, then you and more importantly, your future generations will have the chance to be more successful and climb the economic ladder. I came from a hard working blue color family without a high school diploma holder among them. My brother and I, due to their efforts went to modest colleges and made more for ourselves...our children in turn have worked hard and gone to better schools and now are further.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
@Kroama The problem is that everyone wants it for themselves and they aren't willing to make the big changes to succeed. It isn't just sweat, but it's also getting an education, its about starting a business on your own, its about changing careers midstream, even when things are going well because things never stay the same. Stop taking my money and let me hire more employees. Stop redistributing and let me share the wealth through the natural economics of capitalism.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
@brianboeheim
Maybe you're the kind of guy that would take his extra earnings and hire more employees. But I can tell you right now you're the minority from that upper percentile. There are examples out the wazoo of executives in corporations laying off employees while they fly around in private jets and live in extravagant houses. You're focus is the laziness and greed of lower class expecting to be paid by the government to not work hard. You're forgetting the greed of the wealthy.
Saja0323 4 months ago
Invidious comparison;trying to make his social status greater than everyone else through the things he buys and finds a greater utility in that than security for his family that likely needs it more.With inflation you're just increasing the price level;lowering the real value of the dollar.A person's personal value is more geared toward his real income and how much the dollar actually buys, with so much more real income taking increasing amounts from it means less the more he has to start. Game?
Kroama 8 months ago
@Kroama What??? Your original argument was that a dollar has a different value to a rich person versus a poor person. My argument is that a dollar is a unit of measure like a foot or an ounce. It is the same for everyone. your premise is flawed and biased. It is based on a Communist/Socialist ideal that wealth should be shared. It is a failed ideal and is in part what is causing this elongated economic suffering.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
@brianboeheim I'm acknowledging it does buy the same amount in either hands, but that the poor person's hands it holds much more value because they have less and more needs and hence has a personal value.
Are you suggesting that we should allow the distribution of income to become even worse than it is already?
Kroama 8 months ago
@Kroama In old Soviet Union and the people's Republic of China they tell people how much they should have and how much it should mean to them. I watched the bread lines and the government managed redistribution of wealth. In this country, we should be free to work as hard as we want and to value our wealth individually. You're desire to apply your map of the how I should feel about my wealth sniffs of a very different america than I want to live in.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
@Kroama Yes, I'm saying that the distribution of wealth should be a natural part of our free market. I came from very little and found success through hard work and perseverance, not redistribution. That you want to take my hard earned wealth is wrong, and that you want to take away someone else's experience of earning their way to success is even more wrong. A simple flat tax with no deductions is the fairest and easiest method of providing proportional taz revenue. Watch my video on it.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
A dollar is completely different in different people's hands. If you're someone making 1 million dollars per year, the marginal utility of another dollar is far less than if you're only working for 30k per year. Even with an extremely progressive tax, the value of a dollar for the person making so much more is still far below that of someone whom has a very small income.
Kroama 9 months ago
@Kroama I love it when economists and philosophers pour this B.S. onto undergrads who believe it because it sounds so righteous. Only people who feel guilty about their wealth, never had to work for it, or never had any to speak of believe that crap. A dollar is a dollar...it buys the same in a poor man's hand then it does in a rich ones. You are a mind reader if you think you can tell me how much a dollar means to me. This is the kind of alchemy that gets us into trouble.
brianboeheim 9 months ago
@brianboeheim It will buy the same amount in either hands, but because of the sheer amount of money the there is a different feeling when buying something. You have to live off of 100$ for the week, and someone else only 10$ for the week. Yes, each person could buy a pound of hamburger for 2$, but with so much more money the man with 100$ may not think twice, while someone on 10$ has to make every dollar count.
(To clarify, I'm not bothered by anything but this of the disadvantages you state)
Kroama 8 months ago
@Kroama If what you say is true, than how come so many people on assistance smoke? At $5.00 a pack it would seem to me that this would be an easy choice. Heck, i can afford that kind of habit but i value my hard earned check too much to watch it literally go up in smoke. Everyone values a $ differently and it can be based on how many you have, but watching poor people at the Indian casino tells me that your theory is flawed.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
@brianboeheim Could you rephrase what you just wrote? I'm having trouble trying to understand what you're trying to say there...
Kroama 8 months ago
@Kroama You claim that dollars have less value to a wealth person than a poor person. If that is the case, why do so many poor people smoke, drink, and gamble. This is a waste of their money and flies in the face of your argument. On the other side of the coin, there are wealthy people who hold every dollar close. Your argument would be like saying an inch isn't the same for a tall person and a short person, or a lbs are different for fat people and skinny people. Measures are objective!
brianboeheim 8 months ago
@brianboeheim Ah. Well surely you hear a lot of short people complaining about how short they are, and have you not heard them talk about how they grew a few millimeters as though it is something substantial? Even though the measurement is the same, the value to the person is personal. Also, if you want to talk about addictions like that, they are abstract from normal demand; as rather than having a normal downward slope, people are willing to give up more and more to get extra amounts of it.
Kroama 8 months ago
@Kroama Okay, let's move away from addictive things. How about the young man with two kids and a wife who spends half his paycheck pimping his ride instead of buying milk for his kids? A dollar is a dollar. You are attaching an emotional multiplier which makes is impossible to spread across an entire society. How can someone talk about inflation or deflation and yet say that money is worth more to one person than another? It is a game to rationalize a certain point of view.
brianboeheim 8 months ago
I've never thought the current tax system was fair, but i was never able to expalin it. Thanks for explaining it so simply.
oldgrumpyguy1927 1 year ago
Fair Flat-Tax makes the most sense considering ease of use and and transparency. Most families would finally be able to read and understand the tax code and the simplicity of it will make it so much easier to catch those who evade. You could literally get rid of the current role of the IRS and save billions in doing so.
Mauhadeeb28 1 year ago
@Mauhadeeb28 I like the way you think...did you check my earlier video out on a Fair Flat Tax with a 0% corporate tax?...we are running in parallel on this issue.
brianboeheim 1 year ago
@brianboeheim I'll check it out now.
Mauhadeeb28 1 year ago
Progressive tax = super failure. It leaves so much room for closed door corruption. We need a tax system with much much more transparency.
Mauhadeeb28 1 year ago
@Mauhadeeb28 I couldn't agree more...I'm going to follow this one with videos on the FairTax, Fair Flat-Tax, and the VAT Tax. I'm going to stay object, but I do have a favorite.
brianboeheim 1 year ago