A great Game Master can make any game appealing and fun, no matter how bad the game system is. That's precisely what we see in these videos. When the GM stinks the game system matters *a lot*. This guy makes the system irrelevant. Sadly, thee isn't a lot of "role-playing" or even much description of the actions the PCs are taking, but that's a system problem.
@NewfieKeir I agree that it can be remedied with additional description, but the problems are systemic in D&D 4e, and were designed in that way, for the sake of game balance. AD&D has always been an incredibly flawed system, and 4e exacerbates those issues (hit points, levels, linear skill progression).
A good GM and good players can make a game session (or campaign) exciting and fun. But, from a game designer's perspective, it is tantamount to putting a patch on a broken system.
@Nonefrog I won't say 4e is perfect, nor can I compare it with other editions (for I have no played them). I wouldn't compare having a good DM/Group to- as you said- patching a broken system however. It's more so putting the product in the hands of those who know how to use it the way it was intended. Adding too much RP/Description to spells and actions tends to limit those of us who like to play it out in our minds- and because of that it's (to me at least) really a no win scenario.
My fave is 3.5 just because it's what I've had the most fun in. Also as a DM I enjoy both roleplaying and combat equally. Every campaign I make, I write down on my iPod and revise or add to the story as I think of ways to make it more interesting. If u ever want a good DM just ask me. Also I don't do traps. They're too superficial and complicated.
@42happywalrus I like 3.5 as well but you know that the cards are just references for the spells and such so they don't need to be always checking the book, right?
chris is a damn good dm but i really miss some fluff descriptions concerning attacks and their effects.
It's just boring to say "4 damage to the monster thingy".
Instead he should put it like "in the darkness of the ceiling you hear a sickening thud as your javelin seems to hit the bat and a shriek of pain confirms ...." and so on.
I love how to begin with the players were kind of awkward, yet on this part they've really gotten into it, that's how captivating this game is, bloody brillant.
I agree with what most people in the comments been saying. for me I just like to fool around in D&D like when me and my party were talking to a old lady and I tried to intimate her. I rolled a 1 my friend the DM had
I feel that the 4th edition is good for those that are just beginning to play D&D but 3.5 is where you really can expand upon what you have learned with the 4th edition. I learned how to play by reading the 4th edition and then the 3.5 edition. I personally like 3.5 more just b/c it isnt as limiting.
I am still personally torn between the 3.5 and 4th. I have played one game of each. For me 4th was easier to follow, there wasn't as much content and combat was much more simplified. However, and I may have just had a stupid DM, I was unable to use spells to create certain effects (such as freezing water with cone of cold...) in my 4e game. In 3.5 I was allowed to do things like that. Again, it may have been the difference in DMs.
@TwistingWays Cone of Cold in 4e? That's a 3e spell, but I get your point.
According to page 212 of my 3.5e book, there is no such thing as "attacks one creature" , so imo you should be allowed to cast it on water. However, if you wanted to use Freezing Cloud or Ray of Frost (4e spells), whom both explicit say "one creature" I can understand why your DM didn't allow it. The same as with Bluebell's Dark Fire on the Frozen Door. So I think in that case, it's just 4e, and not really DM.
you don't need anything to encourage role playing except imagination. This is a combat encounter what do you want. I think they are doing ok in the roleplaying department not great but ok everyone is different. They a bit cowardly for adventurers though...Fuck that guys break down doors and rush in like men with your balls on your chest!!!
I love the paragraph long comments that keep happening by this point all having dead serious dicussions about D&D. This is why no one wants to play with you.... Just let it go people, let it go....
This reminds me of an encounter my group had against a blue dragon. It would fly by, attack and fly off. Making it impossible to fight. To make matters worse, we were on a narrow cliff and a few of us fell off.
-And Chris unveils another well drawn map! I can't believe he erased those.
I'm having a problem. I agree that 4.0 is just a means, not an end, but my friends seem to dislike it, saying "it is too much like 'WoW'."
I am also having a problem getting my friends who are somewhat new (although a couple are veterans of 3.5, and they still won't) to roleplay. All they seem to care about is combat; it is very disappointing. DMing games of combat after combat is very boring and unrewarding.
Make the combat interesting, make combat non-standard. For example...what if the characters fell from a great height and you had an intense melee battle going on during the free fall?
Maybe try a reoccurring villain that really plagues the PC's, this might inspire a particular hate of that villain NPC, which might encourage role play.
@tailkite I'm not sure how you could introduce them into roleplaying as much, but what I do is try and put in a character of my own that helps the group. Maybe he wants to apprentice under the group and joins them in the crawl. In my instance, we were short one, so I played a Wizard with low Wis, thus he was a little ADD. He basically tittered around and did nothing unless I needed him to do something, roleplaying or damage wise. He made funny remarks and it coaxed the group into responding.
I switched from 3.5 to 4th recently and my group and I have not changed our style of play (heavy storyline, character development) our interaction is exactly the same. But the rule system is much cleaner, simpler, and faster. Not to mention more balanced. Its just a rules system, whether you RP or not is up to you and your players. Most new players enter into D&D like this, the dungeon delve/combat oriented game. As they progress in playing they get more interested in the deeper aspects.
Oh, and Shadowsire42 - every RPG covers role-playing in the basic book. It's not the fact that is important, it's the quantity. As I have written in my last comment, also the suggested gameplay is important. Why does this guy run a dungeon crawl as an introduction to a Role-Playing game?
Also, there's so-called "crunch" (density of mechanics) to take into consideration. And D&D is generally speaking on the "more crunch" side than "more storytelling" one.
Your right, of course, when you say that D&D as an RPG is limitless and you can play it however you want. However, each RPG has a certain ideology in it. Some games, like Call of Cthulhu focus on the fact that the characters cannot really deal with the horrors they see. Others, like World of Darkness, focus on personal horror and character development.
Pray, tell me, what does an RPG with a "Dungeoneering" skill focus on? Because it sure as hell isn't a deep character and complicated plot.
I agree with Shadowsire. Also, u can play dnd how ever u want it doesnt matter what the books say anyways and if u love to roleplay u can even if the books dont encourage it.
@gamergerder The books are just a guideline and reference. That is what D&D is all about playing it and having fun. I dont like the people who play too serious and take favorites.
4th edition? The 4th edition that explicitly tells you to roleplay in the rulebooks, that has an entire chapter in the PH entitled "roleplaying" before it introduces a single race or class, that is the first edition to even attempt a universal system for resolving out-of-combat encounters, and that explicitly encourages trying stuff not explicitly covered by the rules on p. 42 of the DMG? That 4th edition doesn't encourage roleplaying?
@Shadowsire42 Before I say anything I am a fan of 4th edition. But I looked up your "chapter" on roleplaying in the PHB and it only briefly describes roleplaying in three paragraphs . Thats hardly a chapter. Even though you can never take roleplaying out of an rpg certain systems definitely encourages it more. Roleplaying to me is playing in character and resolving issues with clever dialogue and wit. Rolling dice to resolve roleplaying is not rp'ing... its rolling dice.
@Shadowsire42 Before I say anything I am a fan of 4th edition. But I looked up your "chapter" on roleplaying in the PHB and it only briefly describes roleplaying in three paragraphs . Thats hardly a chapter. Even though you can never take roleplaying out of an rpg certain systems definitely encourages it more. Roleplaying to me is playing in character and resolving issues with clever dialogue and wit. Rolling dice to resolve roleplaying is not rp'ing... its rolling dice.
@Shadowsire42 I find 2nd edition gives me all I need to resolve out of combat actions just fine so I wouldn't say 4th edition is the first to do it. Still 4th edition seems fine too.
@Shadowsire42 I completely agree. It all depends on what the group wants to do. I am personally heavy in the roleplaying and will take every opportunity to RP something (my DM gives me extra xp if I am amazing :P). I know others that do not like the RP aspect of it.
@Shadowsire42 4th edition is still a watered down, action adventure game pretty much.. All the classes and combat has been streamlined to the point where true customization is pretty much thrown out the window.
@mtbedwards - yes, I know it went even worse with D&D4th, but I have to agree with Herobizkit76 - the system has always been like that. What strikes me is that I thought it was the players' and designers' fault in about 50:50. The way I see it now is that if even the designers think this is what an RPG should be played like, there's something definately not right with their definition.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@ChrisFinch87 - They're playing D&D 4.0, which is basically a board game/MMORPG hybrid. D&D 4.0 doesn't allow for things like role playing and story, it is nothing but strings of combats. If you want a real rpg then D&D 4.0 is the last game you should play.
God, this is hardly an RPG they are playing... It's only fighting, then descent to another location, fight some more, descent, fight...
Where's the dialogue? Where's the role-playing? Where's the plot?
I still enjoy the videos, but sheesh - what a perfect way to make noobie players absolutely HATE the hobby? And it's run by a member of the D&D group for gods' sake! Do they really feel THIS is how you should play an RPG?
Well new players might not try different kinds of things like search for secret doors or talk way out of situations etc.. When players get more experience, the game fills with more role play, less fighting. Still these players got to decide which way they go and what to do with the flame thrower and so on.
@ChrisFinch87 Where's the Dialogue? First video... and the talking face after that... Where's the plot? The three shields background story. Where's the role-playing? Well... that's really up to the players, I think. Though, you can see the guy playing "Jaundice the Mauve" talking in an old man voice at several points throughout these videos...
@Samurai0316 My gripe with this was that the Dialogue was there only to lead to more slaughter, and it only took like 10% of the whole videos. The plot is in the background, but not in the game (Fighting Fantasy games also have plot, but "Go into a dark dungeon to defeat the evil wizard" is not much of a plot, you have to agree). I agree with role-playing, but a GM can either encourage players to do that, or don't give a damn, and this 4ed D&D DESIGNER seems to opt for the second option.
@ChrisFinch87 Hm. Alright then. I guess there's a point there. The only thing I can think of is that the lack of plot was due to the fact that Chris had to make up these maps and background story the night before because his boss told him not to do the other stuff he had planned for the game.. or something. It's mentioned in the DM's Commentary videos somewhere.
@Samurai0316 See, I am a D&D hater, but I'm not particularly fanatical about arguing that everyone who plays it is stupid or whatever. I'm just saying that the way this session was run was neither interesting, nor very much "RPGish". Which is a shame, because in my opinion, introducing a newbie to the hobby with a dungeon crawl isn't a very good idea. You don't have to have a plot heavy scenario for novices, but too much combat gives the wrong impression.
@ChrisFinch87 Hm... just so you know. I've never played D&D before.. but I found these videos to be VERY interesting.. actually.. so much so, that I'm actually in the process of re-watching them all again as I'm making these comments. I even watched all the DM's commentary videos one time through as well..
@Samurai0316 To each his own then, I guess! What I hate about the internet is that whenever you've got a strong opinion on something people start calling you names and whatever. I'm just stating what I think. If you find it interesting, then by all means, come join the hobby! I wouldn't recommend D&D of course, but again, this is my prejudice and bias. Have a look at RPG Geek, a database for RPG's. Cheers!
@ChrisFinch87 Hm.. I never meant to come off as 'calling you names' or whatever. I just thought we were having a friendly debate about the subject of these videos. :D
@Samurai0316@Samurai0316 You didn't, we are having a very civil and enjoyable discussion. I was referring to the initial critical comments which appeared when I posted my first comment. Cheers!
@ChrisFinch87 I would recommend D&D but not 4th for beginners. I enjoy 4th but beginners might get the impression that D&D is light on roleplaying and heavy on combat and boardgame like mechanics. I would suggest people to begin with 3.5 or AD&D.
@ChrisFinch87 I agree with you about this session. There wasnt much roleplaying but alot of combat. Reminded me of descent or the heroquest board game. But what this session shows is where 4th shines at which is combat. With how the rules are in 4th its hard to stay away from it looking like a board game.
@kyxmma Not to drag this discussion on and on, but I have to say that as much as I can see why the combat mechanic in D&D4.0 "shines", I can't say it's a good combat mechanic, at least not for me. I'm not a fan of encounters which last for hours, and like my combat quick, easy to track and simple, with a minimum of min-maxing and trying to get the best out of your character. But that's just me!
@ChrisFinch87 When I said it "shines' I meant in the D&D world,not compared to other systems. In D&D type mechanics and combat style 4th shines, but comparing it to other systems it is unrealistic, and not as exciting IMO. I also dont like long encounters. I like my combat realistic, and quick. Even though I enjoy D&D I prefer BRP, or GURPS. Those systems are more roleplaying oriented.
@lynxswift most defiantly. Would just love to see them in longer increments too. The 9 minute videos are awesome but such big cliffhangers. But guess that's been the point of these and the previous PA/PVP podcasts
A great Game Master can make any game appealing and fun, no matter how bad the game system is. That's precisely what we see in these videos. When the GM stinks the game system matters *a lot*. This guy makes the system irrelevant. Sadly, thee isn't a lot of "role-playing" or even much description of the actions the PCs are taking, but that's a system problem.
Nonefrog 1 month ago
@Nonefrog That's more of a player problem. My playgroup runs 4e and we all exaggerate our actions (And failures)
NewfieKeir 4 weeks ago
@NewfieKeir I agree that it can be remedied with additional description, but the problems are systemic in D&D 4e, and were designed in that way, for the sake of game balance. AD&D has always been an incredibly flawed system, and 4e exacerbates those issues (hit points, levels, linear skill progression).
A good GM and good players can make a game session (or campaign) exciting and fun. But, from a game designer's perspective, it is tantamount to putting a patch on a broken system.
Nonefrog 4 weeks ago
@Nonefrog I won't say 4e is perfect, nor can I compare it with other editions (for I have no played them). I wouldn't compare having a good DM/Group to- as you said- patching a broken system however. It's more so putting the product in the hands of those who know how to use it the way it was intended. Adding too much RP/Description to spells and actions tends to limit those of us who like to play it out in our minds- and because of that it's (to me at least) really a no win scenario.
NewfieKeir 2 weeks ago
I love this series
RiverSiege 7 months ago 7
My fave is 3.5 just because it's what I've had the most fun in. Also as a DM I enjoy both roleplaying and combat equally. Every campaign I make, I write down on my iPod and revise or add to the story as I think of ways to make it more interesting. If u ever want a good DM just ask me. Also I don't do traps. They're too superficial and complicated.
duhstydncg 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
this is cool and all but i like 3.5 better, because it dosent have cards like freaking pokemon!
42happywalrus 7 months ago
@42happywalrus I like 3.5 as well but you know that the cards are just references for the spells and such so they don't need to be always checking the book, right?
bemota1243 7 months ago 7
haha when he moved it away and there was a tomb i was like YEAAA!
koopaatroopa 7 months ago
chris is a damn good dm but i really miss some fluff descriptions concerning attacks and their effects.
It's just boring to say "4 damage to the monster thingy".
Instead he should put it like "in the darkness of the ceiling you hear a sickening thud as your javelin seems to hit the bat and a shriek of pain confirms ...." and so on.
Just adds so much flavor to the game.
blackpajamas1 7 months ago 8
I love how to begin with the players were kind of awkward, yet on this part they've really gotten into it, that's how captivating this game is, bloody brillant.
CaptainTwocoins 8 months ago 29
6:14 lol
HaloReachFanatic1 11 months ago
I agree with what most people in the comments been saying. for me I just like to fool around in D&D like when me and my party were talking to a old lady and I tried to intimate her. I rolled a 1 my friend the DM had
Areallykelwguy 1 year ago
Our rage is based solely on bad acoustics.
Madmoonie 1 year ago 6
I feel that the 4th edition is good for those that are just beginning to play D&D but 3.5 is where you really can expand upon what you have learned with the 4th edition. I learned how to play by reading the 4th edition and then the 3.5 edition. I personally like 3.5 more just b/c it isnt as limiting.
MrPatrickSkelly 1 year ago 2
They're actually kickin some ass now.Very, very nice.
SidNightWalker 1 year ago
I am still personally torn between the 3.5 and 4th. I have played one game of each. For me 4th was easier to follow, there wasn't as much content and combat was much more simplified. However, and I may have just had a stupid DM, I was unable to use spells to create certain effects (such as freezing water with cone of cold...) in my 4e game. In 3.5 I was allowed to do things like that. Again, it may have been the difference in DMs.
TwistingWays 1 year ago
@TwistingWays Cone of Cold in 4e? That's a 3e spell, but I get your point.
According to page 212 of my 3.5e book, there is no such thing as "attacks one creature" , so imo you should be allowed to cast it on water. However, if you wanted to use Freezing Cloud or Ray of Frost (4e spells), whom both explicit say "one creature" I can understand why your DM didn't allow it. The same as with Bluebell's Dark Fire on the Frozen Door. So I think in that case, it's just 4e, and not really DM.
91Darcy 1 year ago
you don't need anything to encourage role playing except imagination. This is a combat encounter what do you want. I think they are doing ok in the roleplaying department not great but ok everyone is different. They a bit cowardly for adventurers though...Fuck that guys break down doors and rush in like men with your balls on your chest!!!
Dracenfelz 1 year ago 2
i've now been watching this for around 2 hours whats wrong with my life
noahjell 1 year ago 4
Our rage is based soley on bad acustics. Ah, man, that's so loud.
Cocobunny911 1 year ago 5
what is easier to start with 3.5 or 4
pvcaseyg 1 year ago
@pvcaseyg 4, for sure.
scitechrocks 1 year ago
@pvcaseyg If this is your first time roleplaying, then 4th.
marvelona 1 year ago
what retard made these subtitles
gnalrepsak 1 year ago
I love the paragraph long comments that keep happening by this point all having dead serious dicussions about D&D. This is why no one wants to play with you.... Just let it go people, let it go....
MadMaxwell999 1 year ago
This reminds me of an encounter my group had against a blue dragon. It would fly by, attack and fly off. Making it impossible to fight. To make matters worse, we were on a narrow cliff and a few of us fell off.
-And Chris unveils another well drawn map! I can't believe he erased those.
MrWhite5150Duke 1 year ago
Since you guys seem to be discussing this:
I'm having a problem. I agree that 4.0 is just a means, not an end, but my friends seem to dislike it, saying "it is too much like 'WoW'."
I am also having a problem getting my friends who are somewhat new (although a couple are veterans of 3.5, and they still won't) to roleplay. All they seem to care about is combat; it is very disappointing. DMing games of combat after combat is very boring and unrewarding.
Any advice on these problems?
tailkite 1 year ago
Make the combat interesting, make combat non-standard. For example...what if the characters fell from a great height and you had an intense melee battle going on during the free fall?
Maybe try a reoccurring villain that really plagues the PC's, this might inspire a particular hate of that villain NPC, which might encourage role play.
rekka360 1 year ago
@tailkite I'm not sure how you could introduce them into roleplaying as much, but what I do is try and put in a character of my own that helps the group. Maybe he wants to apprentice under the group and joins them in the crawl. In my instance, we were short one, so I played a Wizard with low Wis, thus he was a little ADD. He basically tittered around and did nothing unless I needed him to do something, roleplaying or damage wise. He made funny remarks and it coaxed the group into responding.
CharlettMoon 1 year ago
I bet there endless amount of maps under that map.
WojekSiren 1 year ago
I switched from 3.5 to 4th recently and my group and I have not changed our style of play (heavy storyline, character development) our interaction is exactly the same. But the rule system is much cleaner, simpler, and faster. Not to mention more balanced. Its just a rules system, whether you RP or not is up to you and your players. Most new players enter into D&D like this, the dungeon delve/combat oriented game. As they progress in playing they get more interested in the deeper aspects.
Khurzan72 1 year ago 5
@Khurzan72 I totally agreed with you
MrMelick 1 year ago
Oh, and Shadowsire42 - every RPG covers role-playing in the basic book. It's not the fact that is important, it's the quantity. As I have written in my last comment, also the suggested gameplay is important. Why does this guy run a dungeon crawl as an introduction to a Role-Playing game?
Also, there's so-called "crunch" (density of mechanics) to take into consideration. And D&D is generally speaking on the "more crunch" side than "more storytelling" one.
PS: Please keep this discussion civil.
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
Your right, of course, when you say that D&D as an RPG is limitless and you can play it however you want. However, each RPG has a certain ideology in it. Some games, like Call of Cthulhu focus on the fact that the characters cannot really deal with the horrors they see. Others, like World of Darkness, focus on personal horror and character development.
Pray, tell me, what does an RPG with a "Dungeoneering" skill focus on? Because it sure as hell isn't a deep character and complicated plot.
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
just thought id say watching this got me into robot chicken :)
adv1k 1 year ago
he doesn't add any mood... That hurts it?!
"You see your javelin pierce its flesh and it screams in pain and rage" Something like that makes DnD so much more.
KingObould 1 year ago
I agree with Shadowsire. Also, u can play dnd how ever u want it doesnt matter what the books say anyways and if u love to roleplay u can even if the books dont encourage it.
gamergerder 2 years ago
@gamergerder The books are just a guideline and reference. That is what D&D is all about playing it and having fun. I dont like the people who play too serious and take favorites.
Nosfeast 2 years ago
4th edition? The 4th edition that explicitly tells you to roleplay in the rulebooks, that has an entire chapter in the PH entitled "roleplaying" before it introduces a single race or class, that is the first edition to even attempt a universal system for resolving out-of-combat encounters, and that explicitly encourages trying stuff not explicitly covered by the rules on p. 42 of the DMG? That 4th edition doesn't encourage roleplaying?
Shadowsire42 2 years ago 104
@Shadowsire42 Before I say anything I am a fan of 4th edition. But I looked up your "chapter" on roleplaying in the PHB and it only briefly describes roleplaying in three paragraphs . Thats hardly a chapter. Even though you can never take roleplaying out of an rpg certain systems definitely encourages it more. Roleplaying to me is playing in character and resolving issues with clever dialogue and wit. Rolling dice to resolve roleplaying is not rp'ing... its rolling dice.
kyxmma 1 year ago 2
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@Shadowsire42 Before I say anything I am a fan of 4th edition. But I looked up your "chapter" on roleplaying in the PHB and it only briefly describes roleplaying in three paragraphs . Thats hardly a chapter. Even though you can never take roleplaying out of an rpg certain systems definitely encourages it more. Roleplaying to me is playing in character and resolving issues with clever dialogue and wit. Rolling dice to resolve roleplaying is not rp'ing... its rolling dice.
kyxmma 1 year ago
@Shadowsire42 I find 2nd edition gives me all I need to resolve out of combat actions just fine so I wouldn't say 4th edition is the first to do it. Still 4th edition seems fine too.
dickogeorge 1 year ago
@Shadowsire42 I completely agree. It all depends on what the group wants to do. I am personally heavy in the roleplaying and will take every opportunity to RP something (my DM gives me extra xp if I am amazing :P). I know others that do not like the RP aspect of it.
TwistingWays 1 year ago 2
@TwistingWays My group is resigned to just running around killing people. It kinda sucks but we do try to RP our way out of it.. almost never works
20MrBigmac 1 year ago
@Shadowsire42 4th edition is still a watered down, action adventure game pretty much.. All the classes and combat has been streamlined to the point where true customization is pretty much thrown out the window.
bud389 1 year ago
@bud389 No. See.
If 4e is an automatic shift, 3.5 is a space shuttle.
PAMuffinMan 10 months ago
@Shadowsire42 :D epic! :D
Igotgame911 1 month ago
Lol @ ChrisFinch87, mtbedwards, and anybody else who thinks that 4e has less opportunity for role play than any other edition. Talk about stupidity.
Cyphaze 2 years ago
@mtbedwards - yes, I know it went even worse with D&D4th, but I have to agree with Herobizkit76 - the system has always been like that. What strikes me is that I thought it was the players' and designers' fault in about 50:50. The way I see it now is that if even the designers think this is what an RPG should be played like, there's something definately not right with their definition.
Cheers.
ChrisFinch87 2 years ago
All versions of D&D (especially 1e) went exactly as you see it now - kill things and take their stuff. They're playing a frikkin' dungeon crawl.
Herobizkit76 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@ChrisFinch87 - They're playing D&D 4.0, which is basically a board game/MMORPG hybrid. D&D 4.0 doesn't allow for things like role playing and story, it is nothing but strings of combats. If you want a real rpg then D&D 4.0 is the last game you should play.
mtbedwards 2 years ago
@mtbedwards get off of my internet
TerrorBlack 2 years ago 3
God, this is hardly an RPG they are playing... It's only fighting, then descent to another location, fight some more, descent, fight...
Where's the dialogue? Where's the role-playing? Where's the plot?
I still enjoy the videos, but sheesh - what a perfect way to make noobie players absolutely HATE the hobby? And it's run by a member of the D&D group for gods' sake! Do they really feel THIS is how you should play an RPG?
ChrisFinch87 2 years ago
this is dungeon delving.
play dnd however you want, its limitless.
adv1k 1 year ago
Well new players might not try different kinds of things like search for secret doors or talk way out of situations etc.. When players get more experience, the game fills with more role play, less fighting. Still these players got to decide which way they go and what to do with the flame thrower and so on.
Kratax 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 Where's the Dialogue? First video... and the talking face after that... Where's the plot? The three shields background story. Where's the role-playing? Well... that's really up to the players, I think. Though, you can see the guy playing "Jaundice the Mauve" talking in an old man voice at several points throughout these videos...
Samurai0316 1 year ago
@Samurai0316 My gripe with this was that the Dialogue was there only to lead to more slaughter, and it only took like 10% of the whole videos. The plot is in the background, but not in the game (Fighting Fantasy games also have plot, but "Go into a dark dungeon to defeat the evil wizard" is not much of a plot, you have to agree). I agree with role-playing, but a GM can either encourage players to do that, or don't give a damn, and this 4ed D&D DESIGNER seems to opt for the second option.
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 Hm. Alright then. I guess there's a point there. The only thing I can think of is that the lack of plot was due to the fact that Chris had to make up these maps and background story the night before because his boss told him not to do the other stuff he had planned for the game.. or something. It's mentioned in the DM's Commentary videos somewhere.
Samurai0316 1 year ago
@Samurai0316 See, I am a D&D hater, but I'm not particularly fanatical about arguing that everyone who plays it is stupid or whatever. I'm just saying that the way this session was run was neither interesting, nor very much "RPGish". Which is a shame, because in my opinion, introducing a newbie to the hobby with a dungeon crawl isn't a very good idea. You don't have to have a plot heavy scenario for novices, but too much combat gives the wrong impression.
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 Hm... just so you know. I've never played D&D before.. but I found these videos to be VERY interesting.. actually.. so much so, that I'm actually in the process of re-watching them all again as I'm making these comments. I even watched all the DM's commentary videos one time through as well..
Samurai0316 1 year ago
@Samurai0316 To each his own then, I guess! What I hate about the internet is that whenever you've got a strong opinion on something people start calling you names and whatever. I'm just stating what I think. If you find it interesting, then by all means, come join the hobby! I wouldn't recommend D&D of course, but again, this is my prejudice and bias. Have a look at RPG Geek, a database for RPG's. Cheers!
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 Hm.. I never meant to come off as 'calling you names' or whatever. I just thought we were having a friendly debate about the subject of these videos. :D
Samurai0316 1 year ago
@Samurai0316 @Samurai0316 You didn't, we are having a very civil and enjoyable discussion. I was referring to the initial critical comments which appeared when I posted my first comment. Cheers!
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 Ahh.. alright then! I didn't notice the other people that responded to you.
Samurai0316 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 I would recommend D&D but not 4th for beginners. I enjoy 4th but beginners might get the impression that D&D is light on roleplaying and heavy on combat and boardgame like mechanics. I would suggest people to begin with 3.5 or AD&D.
kyxmma 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 I agree with you about this session. There wasnt much roleplaying but alot of combat. Reminded me of descent or the heroquest board game. But what this session shows is where 4th shines at which is combat. With how the rules are in 4th its hard to stay away from it looking like a board game.
kyxmma 1 year ago
@kyxmma Not to drag this discussion on and on, but I have to say that as much as I can see why the combat mechanic in D&D4.0 "shines", I can't say it's a good combat mechanic, at least not for me. I'm not a fan of encounters which last for hours, and like my combat quick, easy to track and simple, with a minimum of min-maxing and trying to get the best out of your character. But that's just me!
ChrisFinch87 1 year ago
@ChrisFinch87 When I said it "shines' I meant in the D&D world,not compared to other systems. In D&D type mechanics and combat style 4th shines, but comparing it to other systems it is unrealistic, and not as exciting IMO. I also dont like long encounters. I like my combat realistic, and quick. Even though I enjoy D&D I prefer BRP, or GURPS. Those systems are more roleplaying oriented.
kyxmma 1 year ago
Great job with that Darkfire :D
cubeface21 2 years ago
So Darkfire let the readied action go off and helped two other people hit. Pretty good use of a power if you ask me.
mattmdavid 2 years ago 3
I want maps like those.
tehredmage 2 years ago
@tehredmage: Well, they are hand-made, so you could always buy gridded battle maps and then draw on them with water based markers :)
Faroedad 2 years ago
Now THERE'S an idea...
tehredmage 2 years ago
I noticed the music at the end of this got all rockin n rollin compared to the other end themes of previous episodes.
mohawkny115 2 years ago 3
give more :D
Nangeala 2 years ago
These are awesome videos...please keep 'em coming! Thanks for putting these up.
laertes0420 2 years ago
oh, they didnt took the javelins back!
rossik 2 years ago
Too short! Dear god! i need more !
Lemmavs 2 years ago 2
Best episode so far!
decovedder 2 years ago
I like this video format. If it is possible I'd like to see a Penny Arcade D&D session done like this :).
lynxswift 2 years ago
@lynxswift most defiantly. Would just love to see them in longer increments too. The 9 minute videos are awesome but such big cliffhangers. But guess that's been the point of these and the previous PA/PVP podcasts
Tarkamkrest 2 years ago
Excellent, as always
sboxjunk 2 years ago 3
finallly~
thebuddybud 2 years ago 3
HELL YES ANOTHER ONE :D:D:D
Halibut86 2 years ago 4