The US has a better education system than Germany? I find this highly inconsistent with personal experience of Germans and Americans. Perhaps it depends on the metrics the OECD are using. If they are using standardisded test scores it might inflate the scores of nations which education systems are focused upon such tests (the US) at the expense of other countries.
@Glacialgemini for all of those people that are saying that the US has bad education, it's not our fault. OUR COUNTRY IS AT WAR. Finland might as well just throw their army into a blackhole, they dont need it, nobody is going to attack them. But the US helps numerous countries like Japan, and we fired over 300 tomahawk cruise missiles on Libya while countries like the UK fired close to 50. also, we have so many poor immigrants and so many people in our nation that we have to feed.
The difference between Canada and the USA is ATTITUDE. The USA runs around chanting USA #1 like a bunch of robots when the truth is the USA is NOT #1. As long as you believe you need no improvement you will not improve. As long as you keep bragging you will not learn.
Here is a question. Why is it that Canadians have a great deal of knowledge about the USA when Americans know virtually nothing about Canada. Americans don't think Canada is worth it and that is a BAD ATTITUDE!
Except for all of the unnecessary ad hominem, you make an excellent point. Why does Canada do so well with an education model that looks very similar to the US model? I am going to do some more research on this. My preliminary research shows that Canada spends just a bit more than half of what the US does per student. This is very similar to the healthcare issue.
@zthustra I would be interested to know your conclusions when you have completed your research. FYI...Although I live in Canada now I have lived in the USA for 15 years and have been going there since I was a kid. My relatives are educated Bostonians and one is even a DAR Lady. I know the American system well and also the Canadian one as I have two college degrees from a Canadian College. I can answer many of your questions.
I discovered that 8% of Canadian students attend private schools, mostly religious schools. Ontario has a fetish for Catholic schools but the rest of the country pays for 50% of the cost of private education without regard to sectarian issues.
I've been a big supporter of defending private school alternatives without dismantling the public school system for some time now. IMO a lot of inovation comes from the private sector.
@zthustra And the ad hominem is necessary where it is warranted as is the case here. Your society praises stupidity daily, this is insane in a modern world. In the USA nerds are not cool and laughed at, Hollywood belittles them, the general public makes fun of them, and your society as a whole makes light of being stupid. It's not like that in Canada, being smart is being cool here, laughing at smart people isn't tolerated. Like I said ATTITUDE, the American way of life needs to change!
My eye are wet with tears of laughter! Yes, yes, yes! I was trying to see if I could get qualified in Ontario for a Medical Laboratory job. I would move to Canada in a BLINK!
I worked the Democratic Party tent at a county fair. Met a young woman who majored in economics ... my favorite subject. Sadly, she is repatriating to France. She isn't interested in wasting her effort on Americans.
Still, I try not to use the "s" word in comments and replies ...even someone is "s". ;-)
@SimXLive that s exactly what i see here in America, nerds are being laughed at. I am nerd, but whe one kid bullied me, i showed him who was boss. All i see in classrooms is, "Hey, Steven geuss what? I got an "F" on my homework assignment", "wow, really, nice"
A growing number of the more progressive Americans are looking north and learning about Canada. My paternal ancestors where orignal settlers on Talbot Road near Aylmer, Ontaria. My facebook page features two inspirational Canadians: Tommy Douglas and David Suzuki. I never miss an opportunity to tell others how much we owe Canada for social reforms in labor, social services and even land ownership.
@zthustra I live very near to Aylmer and have always liked that area, very pretty all year. Tommy Douglas was voted greatest Canadian of all time because of his tireless effort to make health care a right in Canada and of course David Suzuki hosts the only prime time show on TV about the environment called The Nature of Things which has been on CBC since 1960.
Yes, the culture is very different. Many, almost a majority of the people in my high school do not care about their education and are not concerned about anything except getting layed, fitting in, and their social lives. This is a reflection on American culture. 1 more thing: Canada does not have the minorities and poverty that the USA has. It is not the minorities fault, they just started in a shitty position so much more of them drop out or fail at school.
@TheFORBEZZZ Actually Canada has more minorities then the USA by statistical analysis. Last check you had 12% where we had 20% as estimated by world organizations. I wish I could remember where I saw that so I could give you a link. Just search Multiculturalism in Canada and USA.
I looked it up in the U.S. census and we have 12.6% black and 16.3% Hispanic, the two groups making up the so-called poverty stricken minorities (Not including Asians as they make on average more than white people). Canada, according to 2006 census (probably changed by then though) has 16.3% minorites, but 2% black and 1.5% Hispanic. According to census, first two biggest minority groups were both Asians. So Canada and U.S. have same multiculturalism, just different ethnic group %'s.
@TheFORBEZZZ Yes Canada has more (not by much) multiculturalism then the USA and of different origins. The difference is that we don't have millions of religious nutbags protesting a Mosque all due to irrational fear. So your culture is infected with bigotry and hatred, mostly from the right and you will never solve your problems as long as you do not accept that being white and speaking english is not superior, just different.
I was not trying to say that minorities or their culture is the problem, just the amount of poverty in those groups is. Also, i agree with the religious wacko's thing: the protest of that New York mosque and others is ignorant and the amount of extremist Christians in the U.S. is depressing to me and the nation.
Canada does have a much better social security net, though and probably invests more into education. Minorities in the U.S. are there becasue of their long standing repression (only maybe 2 generations now have not been) though. There are two reasons the U.S. suffers in education. Poor minorities have a tough time focusing on school whule living in poverty and then some middle class kids are spoiled and then don't give much as shit about their education, not saying about all though.
@TheFORBEZZZ Actually we invest less in education then the USA simply because we don't have the money. I really hate to pound the point home but it truly is a matter of attitude. Even your points are an attempt to blame someone or something instead of yourself. Now I don't know you or your education so don't take that personally. But it is the common thread among Americans, blame anyone but yourself. So Obama has it right when he says it's the parent's fault. Where's the guidance?
I understand your point. It is much an attitude problem. Personally, i do well in school (if that even constitutes anything) and do try to read in my off time (We by Yevgeny Zamyatin now). I see kids in the hall who could not give less of a shit about their education, just about drugs and poon tang. I don't know if you have any of those in Canada, but that is the culture of the U.S: You are cool if you get laid and drink. What i was saying before was that the poverty of minorities
@TheFORBEZZZ Yes kids in Canada are normal and so was I, as a matter of fact I was a terrible student, I just happen to have a high IQ and learn easy and I knew kids who were in the Genius level who couldn't stop taking acid and skipping school, and still got straight A's. And I knew still other kids who needed help all the time. This is all normal. But the attitude in Canada is what is different. Come on up and see for yourself. Organize a school trip to the Capitol, Ottawa. And keep reading!
(Cont). is a great problem in this country. I'm not blaming them and i'm not trying to stereotype, they just cannot go to school if they cannot eat or are not in a secure household. I agree with you that is is parent's fault for shitty kids. Mine told me to take education seriously so i do, but a parent that gives their kid anything they want and allow them to get D's is bad parenting, and no amount of teacher intervention will solve that.
@keveydaking Yes. hilarious and sad at the same time. If you saw Jon Stewart Feb 14 he showed how even Time Life Magazine thinks the USA is a bunch of dummy's by producing dumbed downed versions just for them. Absolutely hilarious, oh and sad too!
I don't understand why you would compare Finland to the USA when a much better comparison can be made to your neighbor, Canada. They ranked second right behind Finland and their education system is identical to the USA, therefore it is not a systematic problem! The real problem is Americans! It is the students who are the problem, not the schools. The schools in Canada and the USA teach the same material in the same way at the same hours and yet Canada does far better, why?
By world statistics, Finland is also the biggest country of the most atheist people. No wonder they are number one. Spending more time on learning and less on a stupid imaginable being surely will give you a better mind.
@brothachiken023 There is no god. There never was and never will be. Julius Caesar was sought upon so much his men wrote a book in secrecy of the god story and Jesus. Caesar was put as Jesus and curing the people. It was a fictional story brought by his men and is still looked at this day by you religious tards lost in his hoax of a book about him. I'm sorry you are so sick in the mind to realize what the truth is. Please see a psychologist. God is of the mind.
@ViciousDave4Life So, all life is mere chance? Order from disorder? I hope you think again my friend. If nobody created you, then your life is meaningless.
@unsignedsongwriter Exactly. Life is a mere chance of chemicals and cells forming over millions of years to create humans and animals. Stop brain washing your mind with this delusional god because clearly, there is no evidence and no facts, the bible doesn't count, it was obviously written by a man or men. This is why I will not have children, the human race is pathetic and me not contributing a child will kill it off faster after my own death.
@unsignedsongwriter My parents created me. Does that give my life meaning? Or does the fact that I believe that there is no creator out there and that yes, I really am here by chance just get rid of all meaning? Why is something that comes about by chance seen as meaningless?
Besides, the principles of evolution say that though we were created by chance, we haven't survived by chance. Doesn't that mean that there is a bit more to my existence even though chance is where it started?
@ViciousDave4Life im a skeptical christian, and while i do or do not believe in god i simply do not care, loads of people and friends believe in god but would spend no more than an hour worshipping him and accepts all other religions and ideologies etc. Its not the religion/ideology thats the problem its people's attitude towards it
@zthustra It's amazing how you talk about "education" and insult a7nwee at the same time.some people think that just because they're not face to face with the one they're talking to, they can be as rude as they want. There's a person behind that name you know.
Just scrolled down ... I don't see where you are coming from. Maybe you know what a7nwee was talking about but I didn't. So I did something very unusual, I asked for clarification. People toss around expressions like "family values" all the time but I have no idea what they are talking about. I have no idea what race has to do with anything. Later we find out that the the children of wealthy parents do better than the children of poor parent. Duh!
@zthustra Im sorry my friend, it's been 5 months, i dont even remember who i sent this message to. was it to you? i dont even remember what you or a7nwee said or who insulted who, or how. really sorry.
Howdy from Finland. I've studied both in Finland and in the States (in college), and I don't meant to brag but the level of study (quite the same subjects were taught) in an American college was the same as in our high school. Of course in USA you have elite universities like Harvard, Princeton, Yale etc. and we don't, but I'd still say there is a difference between your average college and in our average college. So I'm not sure if it is the quantity as it is the quality of education.
That wikipedia chart is wrong, Finnish kids can go to kindergarden from the age of 3 if their parents choose to. But they don't really do anything educational. Also, you forgot to mention that Finnish kid's school days are way shorter than in the US, and that they have more vacation, and just way more free time in general. Anyway, very nice point you've got there :)
I see why they are towards the top all they need is a 50 to pass. Move to Australia and all you need to know is half, LOL. Maybe the USA needs to dumb down there scale like theres and we can move up, LOL. "NOT"
FINLAND The "school grade" system has historically been a scale of 0 to 10, but all grades lower than 4 have been discarded. Thus, it is now divided between 4, the failing grade, and 5–10, the succeeding grades.
10 (excellent), represents about 5% of the top
9 (very good)
8 (good)
7 (satisfactory), the mode
6 (fair)
5 (passable)
4 (fail)
In the US you have to have at least a 60 to pass not a 50 like most countries. I am sure if we could pass with a 50 we would rank higher. Research it
So my question is how can the public say that one school or country is higher in education when they are not being graded on the same scale? In the US kids go to school for 181 days a year, but how many days a year do they go in Finland? Agree with you on the point of kids in the US go to school a long time. However over educating them ,LOL. The test and grading scales change in the public schools to help kids pass, instead of teaching a child the material better.
There is no standardized system of grading in the United States. A lot of other countries as long as you make a 50 or higher you pass. In the USA most states you have to make at least a 60 to pass, but in SC where I went you had to make at least a 70. So my question is how can the public say that one school or country is higher in education when they are not being graded on the same scale?
All I can do is suggest that you read the article linked in my description. US government officials apparently have confidence in the study's findings. Maybe you could buy the OECD/PISA and review the full report for techniques used and report back to us on it flaws? I seriously doubt the study was so simplistic that all they did was compare the grades students got. Good luck.
It's funny to think that here in Finland, going to upper secondary school instead of vocational school can - in some cases - delay your studies, if you want to further your studies tertiary level. Finnish vocational schools prepare students just as well to college as the 'academic' alternative.
I went to upper secondary and still enrolled to a vocational, to obtain diploma and to get in university of applied sciences of my choise. So getting my matriculation examinations delayed me 3 years.
I came to the U.S. in 1981, and I read news reports regarding education and "we are falling behind" since day one, but not much has changed in these 29 years.
Raising a child is like growing a tree. It's not just the 6-8 hours they spend in the school that matters. It's a 24-hour a day issue.
Ask any 15-18 year-old student what he likes the most about school and you will know the problem - "I like hanging out with my friends."
Does any school EVER ask students why they are there?
Here's another Finn trying to offer a peek to Finnish education. Like mentioned earlier nice work with the comparison, however the mandatory military service for men and difficult exams for universities tend to postpone the univ. graduation as well as working while studying.
Nevertheless the job experience is valued, even though it might not be related to field of studies since it shows the willingness and abilities to actually work. It may also be a window to surprising career opportunities.
@zoohis I'm myself 5th year uni student and suppose to graduate with master's degree in a age of 27. It's rather typical since with few expectations all uni students are granted to study a master from the beginning and so it's expected by the employers.
Currently I'm on a student exchange in South Korea and with my knowledge I wouldn't look too much to Asia as what it comes to studies. I just came from a high school I was giving a presentation about Finland and it's hard to keep studentsAwake
@zoohis So far Japan (as well as Finland, but I hope merely because of honesty in stats as compared to catholic countries) has been notorious of its suicides but it seems to be a rising trend in Asia
This is why I would rather look the quality and spent hours in the school and how students tolerate it. So many Koreans wear themselves out by bad scheduling and with unreasonable objectives.
@zoohis Instead of this flooding I guess I should've posted the references which I see meritorius in this matter and so I suggest everyone interested to look for at least a clip made by BBC: Finland's education success
And the ones with bigger appetite: Finnish education system 1 and 2
Maybe its not the system so much, but family and cultural values.
American values have gone down the drain with mass media and brainwashing and etc..
However in Korea or Japan or China, working hard is strongly emphasized and extracuricular studies as well.
I'm a Canadian H.S. student attending UofT next year and what I see is that the immigrants (Chinese/ Korean/Indian) are extremely hard working and often do extremely well in school because of their parents and my school is 90% chinese/korean
Sorry no sources here, just giving an honest opinion on what I see and believe from the educational system I've been in since kindergarten and who's many friend's family I know and talk to and seen since. I've been raised in a very Asian community, and let me tell you immigrants today that are being admitted into Canada are very rich and highly educated and they raise their kids to work hard and study. I believe this is what's holding Canada up, immigrants from around the world.
I'm very confused. It is YOUR opinion that our education ranking has somethng to do with "family values", "cultural values" and "American values", but YOU don't what YOU mean when YOU say "family values", "cultural values" and "American values"?
My problem with your assertion is that these phrases are tossed out all the time by people who later have no idea what they mean.
Here's a fact for you, people who are born to rich and successfull parents tend to be rich and successful.
@zthustra hey good vid but there is few secrets what we have but u dont.first of all school gives everything second in our nation you cant get anywhere without secondary school.then we have food best teachers and if we want jobs we have to learn for atleast 12 years.then we have games and we learn at the same time.and when we have gone 6th grade we know all the basics and learning is much easier.i dont even read for test and i still get 8-10 which is C-A.only thing is problem we are rude.
@a7nwee I'd have to say more so cultural values.My sister(black) is strict with her kids who try to find every opportunity to get them studying and reviewing while making it fun. She wants to get them in the habit of thinking school is important as well as build their self esteem in academics as well as street smarts.When she tells American adults (regardless of color) about their schedule(3 hrs.1-homework/2-studying), they try to dissuade her (even the ones with kids who are poor students).
@a7nwee Plus teaching her 5 year olds to vacuum, clean their room and fold their clothes are frowned upon. The only people who seem to get it are foreigners.
finland is number one.and im from there and im realy proud what so small country have done in history.we were poor country then we sudendly became one of the most important countries in the world like in 30 years after ww2.i know we are most of our lives in school but thats why finland is the best country.only bad thing in finland is school´s food.its cheaper than in jails.but its free so why not.and we were the first country which even gave food at schools.
Thanks for sharing. However, I almost fell out of my chair when I read that the education system in Finland begins providing free "rubbers" to children at age 7.
In the U.S., a "rubber" is synonymous with a "condom". What you called a "rubber", we would call an "eraser".
It's ok, we have the same problem with rape seed oil. In North America it is called canola (acronym - Canadian Oil Low Acid) because the population is so prudish that the word "rape" can't be used.
In response to the age of entry into school, I really feel that early entry indeed CAN be very good for, and very enjoyable for, the child. It depends on the environment and quality of the institution, of course. Especially in post-industrial societies where both parents are working, it may be the best thing for some children. Most important, though, is to look at studies showing hard scientific results focusing on just age of entry, rather than generalizing or confusing several variables
You described the finnish school system quite accurately. Although every finnish man has to attend the army from 6 to 12 months after the upper secondary level. Another big difference between US and Finland is that higher education is free. We might not be able to compete with the ivory league universities in the states but I think that we have an overall good base for a lot of students when it comes to higher education. But given its free im more than satisfied with our system.
In the US, many of the practices are not in sync with life. In real life, you do not get 2 weeks off for Christmas, and 1 week off for Easter. In fact, only after having worked a year have you 'earned' a weeks paid vacation. Many college students quickly leave their first job and later realize that not getting those 3 weeks off (plus 3 months of summer) are not the jobs fault.
I paint houses. I worked for a painter from Sweden. He told me that in Sweden if you are a master painter, 10 plus years of experience, you are given a similar level of respect that other high professions get.
My guess before watching the video was Japan. By the time they are 18 they already have an associates. Plus, they don't have 3 months a year where the child's brain melts from summer break. It is just about all year long.
Here lies another important point: since schools are free, any talented individual - independing on his social class - can get into a univercity gain the master's degree or even pHD. Thus the opportunity is given to everyone - to each one of them according to their skills, and not acccording to their personal financial situation.
Our education system IS a major job market for educators and teachers are much wanted. The difference is, while United States is filled with private schools of all kind, in here most of the educational centers are public. Funded by the state, they are basicly free. The main difference seems to be, that instead of tuition fees, we fund 90% of our schools from taxpayer money.
I believe one of the main reasons why United States has more highschool dropouts is the fact, that education is less important in The States than it is in Finland. In here, you NEED a degree to be able to work anywhere. Sure, you could get a "McJob" without one, but to be able to create a career of any kind... you need an education.
Most - 95% - of finnish young adults will get a vocational training before they get a job. Many will get academic degree and wont move on until they are nearly 30.
I don't know about most, but many do. We call it "pre-school" and attendance isnt mandatory, BUT...
Parents in general want to help their children to grow into social beings, and they wish to give them a soft start when it comes to education. So, many of them send their children to pre-school, which usually takes place in kindergarden (ages 5-6).
Also, part of the idea in pre-school is to figure out the strengths and weaknesses of each child. Therefore, should a child be slow to learn and thus in danger of being left behind due to his/her special needs, something can be done about it early on and the harm in that individual's life can be minimized. The ideal is, that every child should receive support in learning according to his/her needs. Children with learning difficulties can then be sent to special schools if needed.
In the US 15% of 16 YOs will never finish their secondary education. That means that even though they may have eleven years of school they will NOT get a certificate or diploma of any kind, they will be called drop outs.
What percentage of Finland youth finish Basic Education at age 16 and then get an unskilled labor job without going on to secondary or vocational education?
Hard to tell. I'm sure there are surveys about the matter, but i havent seen one. Accfording to what i have seen and heard, the number seems to be quite low. I mean, there are high school dropouts, but they will finish their high school degree (abitur) later when they feel more motivated to do so. The same goes for people who attend a community college. I would say, that only an extremely small minory remains permanently without any kind of degree, but don't take my word for it.
I expected the percentage of youth that opted for vocation education to be higher than for the academic path but was surprised to hear form you that it is like 95%.
I am guessing that the academic path is not just an education path, but an employment path, that college and university attendance in Finland is really for those with academic skill sets and that obtaining an academic degree in Finland earns you a great deal of respect.
To be honest, the 95% was merely a wild assumption. I was supposed to say "maybe even 95%" but I ran out of characters.
Finns are so much into the ideal of equality, that no one will admit this, but respect and "feeling of being above the average" is the main reason why people attend univercities. Although getting into the manual labour business will generally be more profitable, unles one gets really lucky with academic jobs. Being an academic is a lifestyle choise.
I think this is a great example of quite a number of things. I think it's pretty funny how much emphasis is put on college after high school as well. People talk about a bachelor's degree like it's some sort of measurement of your worth as a human. ~So many people~ go to college that just don't need it. It's a waste of their time, their money and their life. After high school, i got an associates degree in 18 months, and I got more out of that 18 months than 4 years in high school, easily.
I agree, our competitive capitalist society often forces both parents to take jobs, whereas the more socialist societies in Europe allow for more parental care which is beneficial to the younger child.
Most American parents consider school as a babysitting service as much as an educational experience, therefore the kids spend much more time in the system than in the European countries.
Ive known people here in England to begin school at 3-4 and leave university at 24/25 and who then go onto 'further education' such as work training for a further 3-6 months..I'm yet to meet anyone who follows that system and REALLY receives anything out of it, to merit 20+ years in Education.
Most leave with ridicuously high debts and aren't guaranteed work...and even then its pretty rare to make much more than the casual business owner who left school at 16
Good analysis, but I think your analysis on age and level of education is a bit off. High school graduates to my knowledge are primarily 17 and 18, not 18 and 19. I myself was 17 when I graduated simply because I have a summer birthday (I did not skip levels).
Also, I'm familiar with a great many individuals that graduate(d) from college at 21 or 22 with a bachelor's degree. This assumes, however, that said individuals only attend a postsecondary institution for four years.
My grandfather got an Eight Grade Diploma at age 14 and got on with life. I was 17 when I finished high school in 1979 and entered the US Air Force.
Michigan's compulsory education ages are 6 to 16. Eleven states have compulsory education from age 7 to 16 and only five states from age 5 to 18. Legal efforts to mandate younger and older attendance are under way in almost all states.
Nobody in the US gets a diploma at age 16 with nine years of education and goes to work!
Not going to argue against any of that. Just nitpicking that many American students (albeit from an anecdotal approach) graduate from high school and from college sooner than you implied. Of course, like I noted, this claim is merely anecdotal.
@SeruQuik Nor shall I argue with you. You are right! I just spent several hours looking for data about the average ages for graduation. I can't find it. I'm going to do another SHORT video making sure people understand that laws vary a lot form state to state and people can and do get through HS, AS, BS levels of education at ages 17, 19 and 21. Even these fast burners attended school 3-4 years longer than youth in Finland. Most college grads are in school from age 5 to 24 and many even longer.
"Most college grads are in school from age 5 to 24 and many even longer."
Agreed. Just giving a personal example, I was put in a nursery school starting at the age of three. In less than a month, I will have obtained my bachelors degree at the age of 23, giving me a little under 21 years straight within the education system. I do not harbor overall regrets towards this long duration, but I will say that I've noticed significant inefficiency all the way through.
@SeruQuik My birthday is in August so I was a young 5 YO when I started KG. I recall struggling through 3rd Grade. Then I started catching up and by junior high I was the only boy who could beat the girls in spelling bees. I was an honors student in High School in spite of being younger. I really liked school.
A few years ago I contact many HS classmates. I was surprized how many really, Really, REALLY didn't like school and wanted out by age 16 or so.
O Brasil pelo menos aparece na lista Hhahahahaha Aposto que era um top 30, mas o autor teve compaixão e colocou um top 31 Hahahahahahhahah
falcon131ful 1 day ago
IRELAND #1
keveydaking 1 week ago
And Brazil is the last in all the aspects. I live in Brazil.
daltonagre 1 month ago
Very well put video. Was an interesting watch, thanks
774duke 2 months ago
The US has a better education system than Germany? I find this highly inconsistent with personal experience of Germans and Americans. Perhaps it depends on the metrics the OECD are using. If they are using standardisded test scores it might inflate the scores of nations which education systems are focused upon such tests (the US) at the expense of other countries.
Faboba 4 months ago
@Glacialgemini for all of those people that are saying that the US has bad education, it's not our fault. OUR COUNTRY IS AT WAR. Finland might as well just throw their army into a blackhole, they dont need it, nobody is going to attack them. But the US helps numerous countries like Japan, and we fired over 300 tomahawk cruise missiles on Libya while countries like the UK fired close to 50. also, we have so many poor immigrants and so many people in our nation that we have to feed.
brothachiken023 5 months ago
The difference between Canada and the USA is ATTITUDE. The USA runs around chanting USA #1 like a bunch of robots when the truth is the USA is NOT #1. As long as you believe you need no improvement you will not improve. As long as you keep bragging you will not learn.
Here is a question. Why is it that Canadians have a great deal of knowledge about the USA when Americans know virtually nothing about Canada. Americans don't think Canada is worth it and that is a BAD ATTITUDE!
SimXLive 5 months ago 11
@SimXLive
Except for all of the unnecessary ad hominem, you make an excellent point. Why does Canada do so well with an education model that looks very similar to the US model? I am going to do some more research on this. My preliminary research shows that Canada spends just a bit more than half of what the US does per student. This is very similar to the healthcare issue.
zthustra 5 months ago
@zthustra I would be interested to know your conclusions when you have completed your research. FYI...Although I live in Canada now I have lived in the USA for 15 years and have been going there since I was a kid. My relatives are educated Bostonians and one is even a DAR Lady. I know the American system well and also the Canadian one as I have two college degrees from a Canadian College. I can answer many of your questions.
SimXLive 5 months ago
@SimXLive
I discovered that 8% of Canadian students attend private schools, mostly religious schools. Ontario has a fetish for Catholic schools but the rest of the country pays for 50% of the cost of private education without regard to sectarian issues.
I've been a big supporter of defending private school alternatives without dismantling the public school system for some time now. IMO a lot of inovation comes from the private sector.
zthustra 5 months ago
@zthustra And the ad hominem is necessary where it is warranted as is the case here. Your society praises stupidity daily, this is insane in a modern world. In the USA nerds are not cool and laughed at, Hollywood belittles them, the general public makes fun of them, and your society as a whole makes light of being stupid. It's not like that in Canada, being smart is being cool here, laughing at smart people isn't tolerated. Like I said ATTITUDE, the American way of life needs to change!
SimXLive 5 months ago
@SimXLive
My eye are wet with tears of laughter! Yes, yes, yes! I was trying to see if I could get qualified in Ontario for a Medical Laboratory job. I would move to Canada in a BLINK!
I worked the Democratic Party tent at a county fair. Met a young woman who majored in economics ... my favorite subject. Sadly, she is repatriating to France. She isn't interested in wasting her effort on Americans.
Still, I try not to use the "s" word in comments and replies ...even someone is "s". ;-)
zthustra 5 months ago
@SimXLive that s exactly what i see here in America, nerds are being laughed at. I am nerd, but whe one kid bullied me, i showed him who was boss. All i see in classrooms is, "Hey, Steven geuss what? I got an "F" on my homework assignment", "wow, really, nice"
brothachiken023 5 months ago
@SimXLive
A growing number of the more progressive Americans are looking north and learning about Canada. My paternal ancestors where orignal settlers on Talbot Road near Aylmer, Ontaria. My facebook page features two inspirational Canadians: Tommy Douglas and David Suzuki. I never miss an opportunity to tell others how much we owe Canada for social reforms in labor, social services and even land ownership.
zthustra 5 months ago 2
@zthustra I live very near to Aylmer and have always liked that area, very pretty all year. Tommy Douglas was voted greatest Canadian of all time because of his tireless effort to make health care a right in Canada and of course David Suzuki hosts the only prime time show on TV about the environment called The Nature of Things which has been on CBC since 1960.
SimXLive 5 months ago
@SimXLive
Yes, the culture is very different. Many, almost a majority of the people in my high school do not care about their education and are not concerned about anything except getting layed, fitting in, and their social lives. This is a reflection on American culture. 1 more thing: Canada does not have the minorities and poverty that the USA has. It is not the minorities fault, they just started in a shitty position so much more of them drop out or fail at school.
TheFORBEZZZ 2 weeks ago
@TheFORBEZZZ Actually Canada has more minorities then the USA by statistical analysis. Last check you had 12% where we had 20% as estimated by world organizations. I wish I could remember where I saw that so I could give you a link. Just search Multiculturalism in Canada and USA.
SimXLive 1 week ago
@SimXLive
I looked it up in the U.S. census and we have 12.6% black and 16.3% Hispanic, the two groups making up the so-called poverty stricken minorities (Not including Asians as they make on average more than white people). Canada, according to 2006 census (probably changed by then though) has 16.3% minorites, but 2% black and 1.5% Hispanic. According to census, first two biggest minority groups were both Asians. So Canada and U.S. have same multiculturalism, just different ethnic group %'s.
TheFORBEZZZ 5 days ago
@TheFORBEZZZ Yes Canada has more (not by much) multiculturalism then the USA and of different origins. The difference is that we don't have millions of religious nutbags protesting a Mosque all due to irrational fear. So your culture is infected with bigotry and hatred, mostly from the right and you will never solve your problems as long as you do not accept that being white and speaking english is not superior, just different.
SimXLive 5 days ago
@SimXLive
I was not trying to say that minorities or their culture is the problem, just the amount of poverty in those groups is. Also, i agree with the religious wacko's thing: the protest of that New York mosque and others is ignorant and the amount of extremist Christians in the U.S. is depressing to me and the nation.
TheFORBEZZZ 5 days ago
@TheFORBEZZZ I see now you were not attacking their culture, sorry if I misunderstood.
SimXLive 5 days ago
@SimXLive
Canada does have a much better social security net, though and probably invests more into education. Minorities in the U.S. are there becasue of their long standing repression (only maybe 2 generations now have not been) though. There are two reasons the U.S. suffers in education. Poor minorities have a tough time focusing on school whule living in poverty and then some middle class kids are spoiled and then don't give much as shit about their education, not saying about all though.
TheFORBEZZZ 5 days ago
@TheFORBEZZZ Actually we invest less in education then the USA simply because we don't have the money. I really hate to pound the point home but it truly is a matter of attitude. Even your points are an attempt to blame someone or something instead of yourself. Now I don't know you or your education so don't take that personally. But it is the common thread among Americans, blame anyone but yourself. So Obama has it right when he says it's the parent's fault. Where's the guidance?
SimXLive 5 days ago
@SimXLive
I understand your point. It is much an attitude problem. Personally, i do well in school (if that even constitutes anything) and do try to read in my off time (We by Yevgeny Zamyatin now). I see kids in the hall who could not give less of a shit about their education, just about drugs and poon tang. I don't know if you have any of those in Canada, but that is the culture of the U.S: You are cool if you get laid and drink. What i was saying before was that the poverty of minorities
TheFORBEZZZ 5 days ago
@TheFORBEZZZ Yes kids in Canada are normal and so was I, as a matter of fact I was a terrible student, I just happen to have a high IQ and learn easy and I knew kids who were in the Genius level who couldn't stop taking acid and skipping school, and still got straight A's. And I knew still other kids who needed help all the time. This is all normal. But the attitude in Canada is what is different. Come on up and see for yourself. Organize a school trip to the Capitol, Ottawa. And keep reading!
SimXLive 5 days ago
@SimXLive
(Cont). is a great problem in this country. I'm not blaming them and i'm not trying to stereotype, they just cannot go to school if they cannot eat or are not in a secure household. I agree with you that is is parent's fault for shitty kids. Mine told me to take education seriously so i do, but a parent that gives their kid anything they want and allow them to get D's is bad parenting, and no amount of teacher intervention will solve that.
TheFORBEZZZ 5 days ago
@TheFORBEZZZ All true and well said.
SimXLive 5 days ago
@SimXLive it's hilarious how bad the americans are at geography
keveydaking 1 week ago
@keveydaking Yes. hilarious and sad at the same time. If you saw Jon Stewart Feb 14 he showed how even Time Life Magazine thinks the USA is a bunch of dummy's by producing dumbed downed versions just for them. Absolutely hilarious, oh and sad too!
SimXLive 1 week ago
I don't understand why you would compare Finland to the USA when a much better comparison can be made to your neighbor, Canada. They ranked second right behind Finland and their education system is identical to the USA, therefore it is not a systematic problem! The real problem is Americans! It is the students who are the problem, not the schools. The schools in Canada and the USA teach the same material in the same way at the same hours and yet Canada does far better, why?
cont...
SimXLive 5 months ago
Good points!!!
m5rule 7 months ago
By world statistics, Finland is also the biggest country of the most atheist people. No wonder they are number one. Spending more time on learning and less on a stupid imaginable being surely will give you a better mind.
ViciousDave4Life 10 months ago 20
@ViciousDave4Life i think the "biggest country of the most atheist people." would be sweden, finland's neighbour.
nordic countries in general aren't very religious and religion is considered as a private matter.
talking about god / religion in general is considered rather embarrassing.
Darusdei 6 months ago
@ViciousDave4Life people that are spiritual tend to do better in life than those that aren't. plus, God is real, whether you like it or not.
brothachiken023 5 months ago
@brothachiken023 There is no god. There never was and never will be. Julius Caesar was sought upon so much his men wrote a book in secrecy of the god story and Jesus. Caesar was put as Jesus and curing the people. It was a fictional story brought by his men and is still looked at this day by you religious tards lost in his hoax of a book about him. I'm sorry you are so sick in the mind to realize what the truth is. Please see a psychologist. God is of the mind.
ViciousDave4Life 5 months ago
@ViciousDave4Life So, all life is mere chance? Order from disorder? I hope you think again my friend. If nobody created you, then your life is meaningless.
unsignedsongwriter 4 months ago
@unsignedsongwriter Exactly. Life is a mere chance of chemicals and cells forming over millions of years to create humans and animals. Stop brain washing your mind with this delusional god because clearly, there is no evidence and no facts, the bible doesn't count, it was obviously written by a man or men. This is why I will not have children, the human race is pathetic and me not contributing a child will kill it off faster after my own death.
ViciousDave4Life 4 months ago
@unsignedsongwriter My parents created me. Does that give my life meaning? Or does the fact that I believe that there is no creator out there and that yes, I really am here by chance just get rid of all meaning? Why is something that comes about by chance seen as meaningless?
Besides, the principles of evolution say that though we were created by chance, we haven't survived by chance. Doesn't that mean that there is a bit more to my existence even though chance is where it started?
Willace666 3 months ago
@ViciousDave4Life No dumbass Estonia is the most atheist nation on Earth.
TheMulticolouredMan 3 months ago
@TheMulticolouredMan I'm basing my statistics on Wikipedia, and it says Finland has the most atheist people.
ViciousDave4Life 3 months ago
@ViciousDave4Life im a skeptical christian, and while i do or do not believe in god i simply do not care, loads of people and friends believe in god but would spend no more than an hour worshipping him and accepts all other religions and ideologies etc. Its not the religion/ideology thats the problem its people's attitude towards it
keveydaking 1 week ago
@zthustra It's amazing how you talk about "education" and insult a7nwee at the same time.some people think that just because they're not face to face with the one they're talking to, they can be as rude as they want. There's a person behind that name you know.
unsignedsongwriter 10 months ago
@unsignedsongwriter
Just scrolled down ... I don't see where you are coming from. Maybe you know what a7nwee was talking about but I didn't. So I did something very unusual, I asked for clarification. People toss around expressions like "family values" all the time but I have no idea what they are talking about. I have no idea what race has to do with anything. Later we find out that the the children of wealthy parents do better than the children of poor parent. Duh!
zthustra 10 months ago
@zthustra Im sorry my friend, it's been 5 months, i dont even remember who i sent this message to. was it to you? i dont even remember what you or a7nwee said or who insulted who, or how. really sorry.
unsignedsongwriter 4 months ago
Howdy from Finland. I've studied both in Finland and in the States (in college), and I don't meant to brag but the level of study (quite the same subjects were taught) in an American college was the same as in our high school. Of course in USA you have elite universities like Harvard, Princeton, Yale etc. and we don't, but I'd still say there is a difference between your average college and in our average college. So I'm not sure if it is the quantity as it is the quality of education.
hautuumaa 10 months ago
That wikipedia chart is wrong, Finnish kids can go to kindergarden from the age of 3 if their parents choose to. But they don't really do anything educational. Also, you forgot to mention that Finnish kid's school days are way shorter than in the US, and that they have more vacation, and just way more free time in general. Anyway, very nice point you've got there :)
LittleRainbowMiss 10 months ago
Very nice video.
Ashlak 10 months ago
JAPAN
Grade in Japanese (Kanji) English translation Corresponding percentage 4-scale university
syū (秀) Exemplary, excellent A (90-100%), rarely given
yū (優) Very good B (80-89%) A (80-100%)
ryō (良) good C (70-79%) B (70-79%)
ka (可) Average, pass D (60-69%) C (60-69%)
nin (認) Approved, acceptable E/F (50-59%), not common
fuka (不可) Unacceptable, failed E/F (0-59% or 49%) F (0-59%)
Again 50% and you are acceptable, In the USA 50% NOt acceptable!!! Good Car makers though, LOL.
stangtrax 1 year ago
Australia Grade Percentile
A (Very High Achievement) 85 and above
B (High Achievement) 70-84
C (Sound Achievement) 50-69
D (Limited Achievement - Fail) 25-49
E (Very Limited Achievement - Fail) 0-24
I see why they are towards the top all they need is a 50 to pass. Move to Australia and all you need to know is half, LOL. Maybe the USA needs to dumb down there scale like theres and we can move up, LOL. "NOT"
stangtrax 1 year ago
FINLAND The "school grade" system has historically been a scale of 0 to 10, but all grades lower than 4 have been discarded. Thus, it is now divided between 4, the failing grade, and 5–10, the succeeding grades.
10 (excellent), represents about 5% of the top
9 (very good)
8 (good)
7 (satisfactory), the mode
6 (fair)
5 (passable)
4 (fail)
In the US you have to have at least a 60 to pass not a 50 like most countries. I am sure if we could pass with a 50 we would rank higher. Research it
stangtrax 1 year ago
@stangtrax I'm sure you understand that the test given was a standard test given to all participants.
how these countries grade their students has absolutely nothing to do with how well they did in the pisa test.
i also don't see how you draw the conclusion that in a 4-10scale, 5 automatically means that the student had 50% right
Darusdei 10 months ago
@stangtrax oh no you wouldn't. These rankings are usually made with international tests where everyone is equal.
LittleRainbowMiss 10 months ago
So my question is how can the public say that one school or country is higher in education when they are not being graded on the same scale? In the US kids go to school for 181 days a year, but how many days a year do they go in Finland? Agree with you on the point of kids in the US go to school a long time. However over educating them ,LOL. The test and grading scales change in the public schools to help kids pass, instead of teaching a child the material better.
stangtrax 1 year ago
There is no standardized system of grading in the United States. A lot of other countries as long as you make a 50 or higher you pass. In the USA most states you have to make at least a 60 to pass, but in SC where I went you had to make at least a 70. So my question is how can the public say that one school or country is higher in education when they are not being graded on the same scale?
stangtrax 1 year ago
@stangtrax
All I can do is suggest that you read the article linked in my description. US government officials apparently have confidence in the study's findings. Maybe you could buy the OECD/PISA and review the full report for techniques used and report back to us on it flaws? I seriously doubt the study was so simplistic that all they did was compare the grades students got. Good luck.
zthustra 1 year ago
@stangtrax
The PISA test is a standard test that is taken by a number of randomly selected schools in each participating country.
omegavalerius 11 months ago
It's funny to think that here in Finland, going to upper secondary school instead of vocational school can - in some cases - delay your studies, if you want to further your studies tertiary level. Finnish vocational schools prepare students just as well to college as the 'academic' alternative.
I went to upper secondary and still enrolled to a vocational, to obtain diploma and to get in university of applied sciences of my choise. So getting my matriculation examinations delayed me 3 years.
MrFoodSirr 1 year ago
I came to the U.S. in 1981, and I read news reports regarding education and "we are falling behind" since day one, but not much has changed in these 29 years.
Raising a child is like growing a tree. It's not just the 6-8 hours they spend in the school that matters. It's a 24-hour a day issue.
Ask any 15-18 year-old student what he likes the most about school and you will know the problem - "I like hanging out with my friends."
Does any school EVER ask students why they are there?
lustcorp 1 year ago
Here's another Finn trying to offer a peek to Finnish education. Like mentioned earlier nice work with the comparison, however the mandatory military service for men and difficult exams for universities tend to postpone the univ. graduation as well as working while studying.
Nevertheless the job experience is valued, even though it might not be related to field of studies since it shows the willingness and abilities to actually work. It may also be a window to surprising career opportunities.
zoohis 1 year ago
Comment removed
zoohis 1 year ago
@zoohis I'm myself 5th year uni student and suppose to graduate with master's degree in a age of 27. It's rather typical since with few expectations all uni students are granted to study a master from the beginning and so it's expected by the employers.
Currently I'm on a student exchange in South Korea and with my knowledge I wouldn't look too much to Asia as what it comes to studies. I just came from a high school I was giving a presentation about Finland and it's hard to keep studentsAwake
zoohis 1 year ago
@zoohis So far Japan (as well as Finland, but I hope merely because of honesty in stats as compared to catholic countries) has been notorious of its suicides but it seems to be a rising trend in Asia
This is why I would rather look the quality and spent hours in the school and how students tolerate it. So many Koreans wear themselves out by bad scheduling and with unreasonable objectives.
zoohis 1 year ago
@zoohis Instead of this flooding I guess I should've posted the references which I see meritorius in this matter and so I suggest everyone interested to look for at least a clip made by BBC: Finland's education success
And the ones with bigger appetite: Finnish education system 1 and 2
zoohis 1 year ago
i have to disagree on "good, better, best"
it is "bad, good, best"
brazil being "good" in education is oxymoron
avalonkiller 1 year ago
Maybe its not the system so much, but family and cultural values.
American values have gone down the drain with mass media and brainwashing and etc..
However in Korea or Japan or China, working hard is strongly emphasized and extracuricular studies as well.
I'm a Canadian H.S. student attending UofT next year and what I see is that the immigrants (Chinese/ Korean/Indian) are extremely hard working and often do extremely well in school because of their parents and my school is 90% chinese/korean
a7nwee 1 year ago
@a7nwee
What are these "family values", "cultural values" and "American values"? Is there a list someplace that I can look at?
Brainwashing? Hard work?
I might need a little more detail to undertstand what you are suggesting.
zthustra 1 year ago
@zthustra
Sorry no sources here, just giving an honest opinion on what I see and believe from the educational system I've been in since kindergarten and who's many friend's family I know and talk to and seen since. I've been raised in a very Asian community, and let me tell you immigrants today that are being admitted into Canada are very rich and highly educated and they raise their kids to work hard and study. I believe this is what's holding Canada up, immigrants from around the world.
a7nwee 1 year ago
@a7nwee
I'm very confused. It is YOUR opinion that our education ranking has somethng to do with "family values", "cultural values" and "American values", but YOU don't what YOU mean when YOU say "family values", "cultural values" and "American values"?
My problem with your assertion is that these phrases are tossed out all the time by people who later have no idea what they mean.
Here's a fact for you, people who are born to rich and successfull parents tend to be rich and successful.
zthustra 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Here's a fact for you, people who are born to rich and successfull parents tend to be rich and successful
@zthustra not if you are black
eastbayexpress.co m/gyrobase/rich-black-flunking/Content?oid=1070459&showFullText=true
avalonkiller 1 year ago
@zthustra hey good vid but there is few secrets what we have but u dont.first of all school gives everything second in our nation you cant get anywhere without secondary school.then we have food best teachers and if we want jobs we have to learn for atleast 12 years.then we have games and we learn at the same time.and when we have gone 6th grade we know all the basics and learning is much easier.i dont even read for test and i still get 8-10 which is C-A.only thing is problem we are rude.
juhotheonehanded 1 year ago
@a7nwee I'd have to say more so cultural values.My sister(black) is strict with her kids who try to find every opportunity to get them studying and reviewing while making it fun. She wants to get them in the habit of thinking school is important as well as build their self esteem in academics as well as street smarts.When she tells American adults (regardless of color) about their schedule(3 hrs.1-homework/2-studying), they try to dissuade her (even the ones with kids who are poor students).
pepperrgirl 1 year ago
@a7nwee Plus teaching her 5 year olds to vacuum, clean their room and fold their clothes are frowned upon. The only people who seem to get it are foreigners.
pepperrgirl 1 year ago
US education is ALL ABOUT MONEY ,IF YOU HAVE MONEY , U CAN GO BETTER SCHOOL. that's ,and most of good students are also asia-americans , so bad
nobreakpeter163978 1 year ago
finland is number one.and im from there and im realy proud what so small country have done in history.we were poor country then we sudendly became one of the most important countries in the world like in 30 years after ww2.i know we are most of our lives in school but thats why finland is the best country.only bad thing in finland is school´s food.its cheaper than in jails.but its free so why not.and we were the first country which even gave food at schools.
juhotheonehanded 1 year ago
@Glacialgemini
Thanks for sharing. However, I almost fell out of my chair when I read that the education system in Finland begins providing free "rubbers" to children at age 7.
In the U.S., a "rubber" is synonymous with a "condom". What you called a "rubber", we would call an "eraser".
It's ok, we have the same problem with rape seed oil. In North America it is called canola (acronym - Canadian Oil Low Acid) because the population is so prudish that the word "rape" can't be used.
zthustra 1 year ago
In response to the age of entry into school, I really feel that early entry indeed CAN be very good for, and very enjoyable for, the child. It depends on the environment and quality of the institution, of course. Especially in post-industrial societies where both parents are working, it may be the best thing for some children. Most important, though, is to look at studies showing hard scientific results focusing on just age of entry, rather than generalizing or confusing several variables
baiNEKO 1 year ago
You described the finnish school system quite accurately. Although every finnish man has to attend the army from 6 to 12 months after the upper secondary level. Another big difference between US and Finland is that higher education is free. We might not be able to compete with the ivory league universities in the states but I think that we have an overall good base for a lot of students when it comes to higher education. But given its free im more than satisfied with our system.
vijussil 1 year ago
In the US, many of the practices are not in sync with life. In real life, you do not get 2 weeks off for Christmas, and 1 week off for Easter. In fact, only after having worked a year have you 'earned' a weeks paid vacation. Many college students quickly leave their first job and later realize that not getting those 3 weeks off (plus 3 months of summer) are not the jobs fault.
dovad16 1 year ago
I paint houses. I worked for a painter from Sweden. He told me that in Sweden if you are a master painter, 10 plus years of experience, you are given a similar level of respect that other high professions get.
theoriginalSkooby 1 year ago
My guess before watching the video was Japan. By the time they are 18 they already have an associates. Plus, they don't have 3 months a year where the child's brain melts from summer break. It is just about all year long.
TheAtheistPaladin 1 year ago
My thoughts? I wish I spoke Finnish. ;)
philhellenes 1 year ago
Here lies another important point: since schools are free, any talented individual - independing on his social class - can get into a univercity gain the master's degree or even pHD. Thus the opportunity is given to everyone - to each one of them according to their skills, and not acccording to their personal financial situation.
Gotta love socialism. <3
Wulfshade 1 year ago
Our education system IS a major job market for educators and teachers are much wanted. The difference is, while United States is filled with private schools of all kind, in here most of the educational centers are public. Funded by the state, they are basicly free. The main difference seems to be, that instead of tuition fees, we fund 90% of our schools from taxpayer money.
Wulfshade 1 year ago
I believe one of the main reasons why United States has more highschool dropouts is the fact, that education is less important in The States than it is in Finland. In here, you NEED a degree to be able to work anywhere. Sure, you could get a "McJob" without one, but to be able to create a career of any kind... you need an education.
Most - 95% - of finnish young adults will get a vocational training before they get a job. Many will get academic degree and wont move on until they are nearly 30.
Wulfshade 1 year ago
@Wulfshade
I am so glad a subscriber from Finland is posting comments. Thank you.
If I misrepresented the Finland schools, I hope you will correct me.
Do most kids go to Pre-Primary at age 6? Or is it truly elective where many parents simply provide pre-primary education at home?
zthustra 1 year ago
@zthustra
I don't know about most, but many do. We call it "pre-school" and attendance isnt mandatory, BUT...
Parents in general want to help their children to grow into social beings, and they wish to give them a soft start when it comes to education. So, many of them send their children to pre-school, which usually takes place in kindergarden (ages 5-6).
Wulfshade 1 year ago
@Wulfshade
Also, part of the idea in pre-school is to figure out the strengths and weaknesses of each child. Therefore, should a child be slow to learn and thus in danger of being left behind due to his/her special needs, something can be done about it early on and the harm in that individual's life can be minimized. The ideal is, that every child should receive support in learning according to his/her needs. Children with learning difficulties can then be sent to special schools if needed.
Wulfshade 1 year ago
@Wulfshade
In the US 15% of 16 YOs will never finish their secondary education. That means that even though they may have eleven years of school they will NOT get a certificate or diploma of any kind, they will be called drop outs.
What percentage of Finland youth finish Basic Education at age 16 and then get an unskilled labor job without going on to secondary or vocational education?
zthustra 1 year ago
@zthustra
Hard to tell. I'm sure there are surveys about the matter, but i havent seen one. Accfording to what i have seen and heard, the number seems to be quite low. I mean, there are high school dropouts, but they will finish their high school degree (abitur) later when they feel more motivated to do so. The same goes for people who attend a community college. I would say, that only an extremely small minory remains permanently without any kind of degree, but don't take my word for it.
Wulfshade 1 year ago
@Wulfshade
I expected the percentage of youth that opted for vocation education to be higher than for the academic path but was surprised to hear form you that it is like 95%.
I am guessing that the academic path is not just an education path, but an employment path, that college and university attendance in Finland is really for those with academic skill sets and that obtaining an academic degree in Finland earns you a great deal of respect.
zthustra 1 year ago
@zthustra
To be honest, the 95% was merely a wild assumption. I was supposed to say "maybe even 95%" but I ran out of characters.
Finns are so much into the ideal of equality, that no one will admit this, but respect and "feeling of being above the average" is the main reason why people attend univercities. Although getting into the manual labour business will generally be more profitable, unles one gets really lucky with academic jobs. Being an academic is a lifestyle choise.
Wulfshade 1 year ago
@Wulfshade yeah thats kinda true...tho they usually work even before the degree so...
wakuzaki 1 year ago
I think this is a great example of quite a number of things. I think it's pretty funny how much emphasis is put on college after high school as well. People talk about a bachelor's degree like it's some sort of measurement of your worth as a human. ~So many people~ go to college that just don't need it. It's a waste of their time, their money and their life. After high school, i got an associates degree in 18 months, and I got more out of that 18 months than 4 years in high school, easily.
MotionFur 1 year ago
I agree, our competitive capitalist society often forces both parents to take jobs, whereas the more socialist societies in Europe allow for more parental care which is beneficial to the younger child.
Most American parents consider school as a babysitting service as much as an educational experience, therefore the kids spend much more time in the system than in the European countries.
hal2017 1 year ago
Ive known people here in England to begin school at 3-4 and leave university at 24/25 and who then go onto 'further education' such as work training for a further 3-6 months..I'm yet to meet anyone who follows that system and REALLY receives anything out of it, to merit 20+ years in Education.
Most leave with ridicuously high debts and aren't guaranteed work...and even then its pretty rare to make much more than the casual business owner who left school at 16
godlessmessiah 1 year ago
Good analysis, but I think your analysis on age and level of education is a bit off. High school graduates to my knowledge are primarily 17 and 18, not 18 and 19. I myself was 17 when I graduated simply because I have a summer birthday (I did not skip levels).
Also, I'm familiar with a great many individuals that graduate(d) from college at 21 or 22 with a bachelor's degree. This assumes, however, that said individuals only attend a postsecondary institution for four years.
SeruQuik 1 year ago
@SeruQuik
My grandfather got an Eight Grade Diploma at age 14 and got on with life. I was 17 when I finished high school in 1979 and entered the US Air Force.
Michigan's compulsory education ages are 6 to 16. Eleven states have compulsory education from age 7 to 16 and only five states from age 5 to 18. Legal efforts to mandate younger and older attendance are under way in almost all states.
Nobody in the US gets a diploma at age 16 with nine years of education and goes to work!
zthustra 1 year ago
@zthustra
Not going to argue against any of that. Just nitpicking that many American students (albeit from an anecdotal approach) graduate from high school and from college sooner than you implied. Of course, like I noted, this claim is merely anecdotal.
SeruQuik 1 year ago
@SeruQuik Nor shall I argue with you. You are right! I just spent several hours looking for data about the average ages for graduation. I can't find it. I'm going to do another SHORT video making sure people understand that laws vary a lot form state to state and people can and do get through HS, AS, BS levels of education at ages 17, 19 and 21. Even these fast burners attended school 3-4 years longer than youth in Finland. Most college grads are in school from age 5 to 24 and many even longer.
zthustra 1 year ago
@zthustra
"Most college grads are in school from age 5 to 24 and many even longer."
Agreed. Just giving a personal example, I was put in a nursery school starting at the age of three. In less than a month, I will have obtained my bachelors degree at the age of 23, giving me a little under 21 years straight within the education system. I do not harbor overall regrets towards this long duration, but I will say that I've noticed significant inefficiency all the way through.
SeruQuik 1 year ago
@SeruQuik My birthday is in August so I was a young 5 YO when I started KG. I recall struggling through 3rd Grade. Then I started catching up and by junior high I was the only boy who could beat the girls in spelling bees. I was an honors student in High School in spite of being younger. I really liked school.
A few years ago I contact many HS classmates. I was surprized how many really, Really, REALLY didn't like school and wanted out by age 16 or so.
zthustra 1 year ago