The fact that George Orwell never actually wrote anything even closely resembling that excerpt appropriately displays the level of competence and research that Michael Moore subsumes into his arguments.
@dave19941000 I have read the book, which leads me to wonder if you, or Moore for that matter, have. "Infomous" as it may be, the quote is taken from the film adaptation of 1984, and not present anywhere in print nor resembles anything Orwell himself was ever known to have said. No doubt the rest of the body of his sources are no less inadequate.
@hobodoctor Well if the quote used was not in the book, then it resembles a phrase used in the book, because I am failry sertain there was a part of Chapter 3 that had the quote used, though it may not have been exactly what Moore used.
@dave19941000 We'd both be "failry sertain" if you could find the passage then, because I just skimmed through the third chapter and didn't find anything remotely similar.
It doesn't help that Orwell spent the majority of his life supporting war efforts. He volunteered to go to Spain to fight in their civil war against fascism, got shot in the throat by a sniper, later developed tuberculosis, and still dedicated all of his energy to aiding the war effort in WWII. He just was not anti-war.
@hobodoctor Being against war and being against war at all costs is two different things. Being against war means you do not want there to be war but you are still willing to fight in one if need be, however being against war at all costs means being against war to the point where you will roll over backwards to prevent it, and simply allow your opponent to win the war unoppossed. After all look at the military, they are the ones sent to war yet they are the onec most against war.
Orwell never wrote this... Michael Moore declares these lines in his film Fahrenheit 9/11 as something "Orwell once wrote". They are nearly identical to a block of narration in the 1984 movie version of "1984" (with Richard Burton and John Hurt) when Winston (Hurt) is reading Goldstein's book. All of the lines are excerpts from various parts of Goldstein's book in part 2, chapter 9 of the novel with some paraphrasing.
In fact, the quote is almost verbatim from the 1984 Burton/Hurt movie version of "1984". Only the sentence beginning "Hierarchical society" actually appears in the novel. So Orwell didn't write the quote. And if you say Mikey was just paraphrasing Orwell, actually Mikey was quoting someone else's paraphrase. How original.
Michael Moore fans prove ignorance is strength. This is not a George Orwell quote. It is a fat, oily Moore quote fed to dupes eager to prove morons will pay good money to be pissed on by a filthy liar.
When it comes to Michael Moore fans, ignorance is strength. This is not a George Orwell quote. It is a fat oily bastard quote dripping from the lying lips of a cancerous liar. Only uneducated fools could believe these fabrications. Moore movies prove one thing, making millions from morons is easy in an America where creationists and communists romp together like diseased sheep with rotten brains. As performance art goes, Michael Moore eating a turd is cannibalism.
@miyegombobayartsogt So you don't appreciate it when unpalatable truths are spoken. The military-industrial complex in the USA is so huge that the country has to keep having wars to justify the level of military expenditure. If you don't realise that you must walk around with your eyes and ears shut.
This is a very magnificent piece of work. These quotes could not be more relevant than to USA. From the days of Vietnam's War US is continuously engaged in war, or war like activity. They have constantly made devil of somebody. Hitler, Japan, Russia, Cuba, Sadam, Osama. The will keep on fining new devil to perpetuate war, after all " war is peace"
Thank you, Michael Moore. And a big thanks for showing the faces of Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfield, and Rice just to let the public know who really killed those people inside WTC and the Pentagon-and not some Mideast loser (just as, say JFK and RFK were killed by their own government members and not by young-aged misfits). He forgot to show someone from the Rockerfeller's and Rothschild's-because money talks and bull---t walks.
You can blame Republicans all you want but President Obama re-newed the Patriot Act. He could have veto'd this bill and he didnt. Obama owns the Patriot Act now and everyone who voted for him owns this bill as well. The Senate is controlled by the Democrats; they could have voted no right down party lines and this bill would have been gone. But they didnt and Obama didnt. This is Obama's bill now and you can't blame anyone but him if you do not like the Patriot Act
it pains me to see this creep quote perhaps one of the most important books ever written.
Michael Moore is an unprincipled partisan scumbag... When the war machine is run and expanded under Obama all is forgotten... not so much as a boo-hoo.
Raking in 10's of millions of capitalist dollars while at the same time denouncing them? Can you say fat hypocrite?
You do realize that this movie came out long before Obama took Office. Regardless, I agree with you that Obama did drop his promices, however none of his actions are forgotten, plenty of liberal and conservative commentators are still calling for an end to the wars in the middle east.
@theseeker2001 You clearly have no real understanding of Orwell or his work. To call Michael Moore a scumbag only reinforces what most of we Europeans think of the paucity of intellect of the average American. Michael Moore is a shining light in your unprincipled, jingoistic, ludicrous country!
@luis6079 Not so. I simply cannot tolerate the way in which Americans tend to say the most ridiculous things and expect people to simply swallow it. Like most non-Americans, I find your country very worrying indeed. You see yourselves a a better country than others yet prove time after time that you are the real problem in this world. You clearly don't like me so I must be doing something right!
@luis6079 You seem very annoyed for some reason. I cannot really understand why. I am not over-opinionated, and I am not an 'asshole' (whatever that means). I do however get annoyed when people spout crap, that's all. You take offence far too easily
@khoroshoorange Who said Europe is great - not me. It remains ahead of the US in terms of welfare and citizenship (in general) but it is no utopia. There is a lot of mess to clean up all over the world.
@theseeker2001 And do you what's the greatest part about this? This quote never appears in 1984 the book, BUT it does appear in 1984 the movie. So basically Moore was too damn lazy to actually read the book that he instead decided to quote the movie. Now that's the definition of being a pseudo intellectual.
Plus, the silence Moore generates in not criticizing Obama's foreign policy is quite deafening, if not outright criminal
@FreeEcon Moore's silence on Obama's foreign policy is VERY worrying, I agree. All government's should be held to account, not just the one's you oppose, and in this Michael Moore has let a lot of people down.
@theseeker2001 First Michael Moore gave obama the benifit of the doubt, way more than other liberals, but ended up criticizing him, saying he was sicken by the democrats and the expanded wars.
So your second point.. lets take me, im anti capitalist, BUT i want to make money because i got bills to pay, I want to save for the future, put somthing away for a rainy day. Same with Michael Moore... hes got a wife n daughter.
@theseeker2001 Basically its like gambling. A stuido churns out may 5 movies, and one of them turns out to pay for the others, that didn't do so bad but nevertheless lost money.
Anyone going into movies dont do it for the money. The do it cuz they love it. If they get rich, which is due to Michael Moores talent for story telling, then they are extremely lucky.
Third, havent your heard people saying they will never watch a MM film? His audience shrunk considerably after..
Fahrenheit 9/11. Corporations are using everything in there power to destroy his career. This is pretty much understood. Nevertheless He churns out one hit after another. And on top of that, says things someone like chomsky would say. If you talk about socialism and anti capitalism, how in the hell is that supposed to make you popular?
@theseeker2001 Everyone lives in a capitalist system, there is no escape, weather your a buddhist monk, anarchist, or someone who lives in a cabin in the woods.
I never understood that argument, if your anti capitalist, you should give your money away.
If you gives his fortune away, you think anyone will help him? No hes just like you and me, gotta pay the bills. Perhaps the massive amount he made will go to some good use later on.
EXCEPT.........George Orwell NEVER said this! READ 1984. You cannot find this quote in there. Michael Moore is a fraud (and a fat slob) and this is one of numerous lies in F9/11.
The narrator didn't say it was a direct quote, he said that George Orwell wrote that in his novel, "1984." He wrote about an ongoing, non-existent war that's purpose is to keep society 'on its toes', so-to-speak, poverty (you see this in the Prolls and perhaps you can call the Outer Party poverty as well, considering their living conditions, but that depends on how you see it...), the altering of the past, and etc.
@pdxdanpdx I don't like Michael Moore either, but those are quotes from the book. They're somewhere in the part of the book where Winston is reading Goldstein's book, "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism."
@pdxdanpdx You have a real problem, friend. I guess when you read 1984 you took it as an attack on the Soviet Union and thus supporting capitalism. That my friend is a bag of shit. Orwell remained a socialist all his life. He critiqued Soviet tyranny in Animal Farm and in 1984. Michael Moore belongs in the same tradition as Orwell; he tells it like it is, rather than how some ignorant Americans think it should be. He is a shining light in your evil, God-forsaken country.
@DrYork100 Moore is not like Orwell. Orwell was a socialist, Moore is a communist. He wants to develop the US into a communist country. Socialism works fine as long as you have control of the government, Moore wants to establish a government we can't control. He wants a country where the idiots follow the communist leaders and the intelligent are so overworked they can't fight against freedom. Orwell was for freedom against the elites, Moore is for control by them.
@whyamimrpink78 I now realise that you neither understand Orwell, nor grasp the actual meaning of socialism. You seem to think of socialism as a subset of capitalism .(i.e. social democracy). That is a gross misunderstanding. You differentiate between socialism and communism whereas they are broadly the same thing. I guess you have never read much Orwell or your understanding would be a little better.. Try actually reading some of Orwell's books before pontificating on his ideas.
@vaninec ....Fascists with FASCIST central bank FED (US Central bank) DEPEDENCY, economic hitmen, US policy, Other neo-fascist staes policy, greed bankers, greed corporations,lglobalism, and Greed right wingers who caused bailout are examples how to destroy good systems. And to ensure that good systems fails..
SOCIAL DEMOCRACY shopuld be all nations system. Because ONLY in that CAPITALISM have change to success with LESS Corruption and with More EQUALITY. I know I used to live in that kind of state, but now in NWO things are getting fucked up..
@vaninec nope. Nope. CAPITALISM with SOCIAL RESPONCIBILITY = SOCIAL DEMOCRACY. Read about it.
System where SOCIAL DEMOCRACY have been adapted like in SCANDINAVIAN STATES before NWO, real expansions of GLOBALISM- has been Best working Capitalism ever. Scandic states have been the best working 10 states group in the world.
A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance....so true - it's what allows a continuous stream of cannon fodder...ahem, soldiers
The fact that George Orwell never actually wrote anything even closely resembling that excerpt appropriately displays the level of competence and research that Michael Moore subsumes into his arguments.
hobodoctor 1 month ago
@hobodoctor But the quote was taken right out of his most infomous book, have you ever read 1984? Its in there.
dave19941000 4 weeks ago
@dave19941000 I have read the book, which leads me to wonder if you, or Moore for that matter, have. "Infomous" as it may be, the quote is taken from the film adaptation of 1984, and not present anywhere in print nor resembles anything Orwell himself was ever known to have said. No doubt the rest of the body of his sources are no less inadequate.
hobodoctor 4 weeks ago
@hobodoctor Well if the quote used was not in the book, then it resembles a phrase used in the book, because I am failry sertain there was a part of Chapter 3 that had the quote used, though it may not have been exactly what Moore used.
dave19941000 3 weeks ago
@dave19941000 We'd both be "failry sertain" if you could find the passage then, because I just skimmed through the third chapter and didn't find anything remotely similar.
It doesn't help that Orwell spent the majority of his life supporting war efforts. He volunteered to go to Spain to fight in their civil war against fascism, got shot in the throat by a sniper, later developed tuberculosis, and still dedicated all of his energy to aiding the war effort in WWII. He just was not anti-war.
hobodoctor 3 weeks ago
@hobodoctor Being against war and being against war at all costs is two different things. Being against war means you do not want there to be war but you are still willing to fight in one if need be, however being against war at all costs means being against war to the point where you will roll over backwards to prevent it, and simply allow your opponent to win the war unoppossed. After all look at the military, they are the ones sent to war yet they are the onec most against war.
dave19941000 3 weeks ago
Actually, it's not even a quote. It's sort of paraphrased at best, twisted at worst. I don't mean to be a stickler, but there it is.
kstjarre 2 months ago
Orwell never wrote this... Michael Moore declares these lines in his film Fahrenheit 9/11 as something "Orwell once wrote". They are nearly identical to a block of narration in the 1984 movie version of "1984" (with Richard Burton and John Hurt) when Winston (Hurt) is reading Goldstein's book. All of the lines are excerpts from various parts of Goldstein's book in part 2, chapter 9 of the novel with some paraphrasing.
CuCulainn1 3 months ago
In fact, the quote is almost verbatim from the 1984 Burton/Hurt movie version of "1984". Only the sentence beginning "Hierarchical society" actually appears in the novel. So Orwell didn't write the quote. And if you say Mikey was just paraphrasing Orwell, actually Mikey was quoting someone else's paraphrase. How original.
JimC 4 months ago
Michael Moore fans prove ignorance is strength. This is not a George Orwell quote. It is a fat, oily Moore quote fed to dupes eager to prove morons will pay good money to be pissed on by a filthy liar.
miyegombobayartsogt 5 months ago
When it comes to Michael Moore fans, ignorance is strength. This is not a George Orwell quote. It is a fat oily bastard quote dripping from the lying lips of a cancerous liar. Only uneducated fools could believe these fabrications. Moore movies prove one thing, making millions from morons is easy in an America where creationists and communists romp together like diseased sheep with rotten brains. As performance art goes, Michael Moore eating a turd is cannibalism.
miyegombobayartsogt 5 months ago
@miyegombobayartsogt So you don't appreciate it when unpalatable truths are spoken. The military-industrial complex in the USA is so huge that the country has to keep having wars to justify the level of military expenditure. If you don't realise that you must walk around with your eyes and ears shut.
DrYork100 3 months ago
This is a very magnificent piece of work. These quotes could not be more relevant than to USA. From the days of Vietnam's War US is continuously engaged in war, or war like activity. They have constantly made devil of somebody. Hitler, Japan, Russia, Cuba, Sadam, Osama. The will keep on fining new devil to perpetuate war, after all " war is peace"
nishantgarggbs 5 months ago
Thank you, Michael Moore. And a big thanks for showing the faces of Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfield, and Rice just to let the public know who really killed those people inside WTC and the Pentagon-and not some Mideast loser (just as, say JFK and RFK were killed by their own government members and not by young-aged misfits). He forgot to show someone from the Rockerfeller's and Rothschild's-because money talks and bull---t walks.
EricandDish 6 months ago 8
You can blame Republicans all you want but President Obama re-newed the Patriot Act. He could have veto'd this bill and he didnt. Obama owns the Patriot Act now and everyone who voted for him owns this bill as well. The Senate is controlled by the Democrats; they could have voted no right down party lines and this bill would have been gone. But they didnt and Obama didnt. This is Obama's bill now and you can't blame anyone but him if you do not like the Patriot Act
PastorBrownSteve 9 months ago
it pains me to see this creep quote perhaps one of the most important books ever written.
Michael Moore is an unprincipled partisan scumbag... When the war machine is run and expanded under Obama all is forgotten... not so much as a boo-hoo.
Raking in 10's of millions of capitalist dollars while at the same time denouncing them? Can you say fat hypocrite?
If only he could be sent to the Malabar front...
theseeker2001 1 year ago
@theseeker2001: I agree with you absolutely
Dechoir 11 months ago
@theseeker2001
You do realize that this movie came out long before Obama took Office. Regardless, I agree with you that Obama did drop his promices, however none of his actions are forgotten, plenty of liberal and conservative commentators are still calling for an end to the wars in the middle east.
AndrewKulcsar 10 months ago
@theseeker2001 You clearly have no real understanding of Orwell or his work. To call Michael Moore a scumbag only reinforces what most of we Europeans think of the paucity of intellect of the average American. Michael Moore is a shining light in your unprincipled, jingoistic, ludicrous country!
DrYork100 8 months ago 9
@DrYork100 Except that most of Fahrenheit 9/11 was a lie.
CaramelMarshmallow 6 months ago
@DrYork100 Do you talk like you write? If so, what a foul, condescending, and FAR over-opinionated creature you must be.
luis6079 2 months ago
@luis6079 Not so. I simply cannot tolerate the way in which Americans tend to say the most ridiculous things and expect people to simply swallow it. Like most non-Americans, I find your country very worrying indeed. You see yourselves a a better country than others yet prove time after time that you are the real problem in this world. You clearly don't like me so I must be doing something right!
DrYork100 2 months ago
@DrYork100 Nope.I don't like you simply because you are an over-opinionated, attention starved asshole.
luis6079 2 months ago
@luis6079 You seem very annoyed for some reason. I cannot really understand why. I am not over-opinionated, and I am not an 'asshole' (whatever that means). I do however get annoyed when people spout crap, that's all. You take offence far too easily
DrYork100 2 months ago
@DrYork100
yes and europe is just fucking great.
clean up your own mess too buddy.
and im a european.
khoroshoorange 2 months ago
@khoroshoorange Who said Europe is great - not me. It remains ahead of the US in terms of welfare and citizenship (in general) but it is no utopia. There is a lot of mess to clean up all over the world.
DrYork100 2 months ago
@theseeker2001 And do you what's the greatest part about this? This quote never appears in 1984 the book, BUT it does appear in 1984 the movie. So basically Moore was too damn lazy to actually read the book that he instead decided to quote the movie. Now that's the definition of being a pseudo intellectual.
Plus, the silence Moore generates in not criticizing Obama's foreign policy is quite deafening, if not outright criminal
FreeEcon 4 months ago
@FreeEcon Moore's silence on Obama's foreign policy is VERY worrying, I agree. All government's should be held to account, not just the one's you oppose, and in this Michael Moore has let a lot of people down.
DrYork100 2 months ago
@theseeker2001 First Michael Moore gave obama the benifit of the doubt, way more than other liberals, but ended up criticizing him, saying he was sicken by the democrats and the expanded wars.
So your second point.. lets take me, im anti capitalist, BUT i want to make money because i got bills to pay, I want to save for the future, put somthing away for a rainy day. Same with Michael Moore... hes got a wife n daughter.
Plus do you know anything about hollywood films?
sullenboy1o3o 2 weeks ago
@theseeker2001 Basically its like gambling. A stuido churns out may 5 movies, and one of them turns out to pay for the others, that didn't do so bad but nevertheless lost money.
Anyone going into movies dont do it for the money. The do it cuz they love it. If they get rich, which is due to Michael Moores talent for story telling, then they are extremely lucky.
Third, havent your heard people saying they will never watch a MM film? His audience shrunk considerably after..
sullenboy1o3o 2 weeks ago
Fahrenheit 9/11. Corporations are using everything in there power to destroy his career. This is pretty much understood. Nevertheless He churns out one hit after another. And on top of that, says things someone like chomsky would say. If you talk about socialism and anti capitalism, how in the hell is that supposed to make you popular?
Do you have a rebuttal?
sullenboy1o3o 2 weeks ago
@theseeker2001 Everyone lives in a capitalist system, there is no escape, weather your a buddhist monk, anarchist, or someone who lives in a cabin in the woods.
I never understood that argument, if your anti capitalist, you should give your money away.
If you gives his fortune away, you think anyone will help him? No hes just like you and me, gotta pay the bills. Perhaps the massive amount he made will go to some good use later on.
sullenboy1o3o 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Social-Socialism
Capital-Capitalism
get IT
vaninec 1 year ago
EXCEPT.........George Orwell NEVER said this! READ 1984. You cannot find this quote in there. Michael Moore is a fraud (and a fat slob) and this is one of numerous lies in F9/11.
pdxdanpdx 1 year ago
@pdxdanpdx Try googling for the real answer.
virtualmachine07 1 year ago
@pdxdanpdx
The narrator didn't say it was a direct quote, he said that George Orwell wrote that in his novel, "1984." He wrote about an ongoing, non-existent war that's purpose is to keep society 'on its toes', so-to-speak, poverty (you see this in the Prolls and perhaps you can call the Outer Party poverty as well, considering their living conditions, but that depends on how you see it...), the altering of the past, and etc.
AerithGainsborough7 1 year ago
@pdxdanpdx I don't like Michael Moore either, but those are quotes from the book. They're somewhere in the part of the book where Winston is reading Goldstein's book, "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism."
MichoRizzo44 1 year ago
@pdxdanpdx
You're an idiot. Those are quotes from the book.
loner1878 9 months ago
@pdxdanpdx You have a real problem, friend. I guess when you read 1984 you took it as an attack on the Soviet Union and thus supporting capitalism. That my friend is a bag of shit. Orwell remained a socialist all his life. He critiqued Soviet tyranny in Animal Farm and in 1984. Michael Moore belongs in the same tradition as Orwell; he tells it like it is, rather than how some ignorant Americans think it should be. He is a shining light in your evil, God-forsaken country.
DrYork100 4 months ago
@DrYork100 Moore is not like Orwell. Orwell was a socialist, Moore is a communist. He wants to develop the US into a communist country. Socialism works fine as long as you have control of the government, Moore wants to establish a government we can't control. He wants a country where the idiots follow the communist leaders and the intelligent are so overworked they can't fight against freedom. Orwell was for freedom against the elites, Moore is for control by them.
whyamimrpink78 3 months ago
@whyamimrpink78 I now realise that you neither understand Orwell, nor grasp the actual meaning of socialism. You seem to think of socialism as a subset of capitalism .(i.e. social democracy). That is a gross misunderstanding. You differentiate between socialism and communism whereas they are broadly the same thing. I guess you have never read much Orwell or your understanding would be a little better.. Try actually reading some of Orwell's books before pontificating on his ideas.
DrYork100 3 months ago
Orwell Democrat-socialist
vaninec 2 years ago
@vaninec Social Democrate ( = CAPITALISM with SOCIAL RESPONCIBILITY)
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
@PNACATTACKdotCOM
not sure if Capitalism can be SOCIAL
vaninec 1 year ago
@vaninec ....Fascists with FASCIST central bank FED (US Central bank) DEPEDENCY, economic hitmen, US policy, Other neo-fascist staes policy, greed bankers, greed corporations,lglobalism, and Greed right wingers who caused bailout are examples how to destroy good systems. And to ensure that good systems fails..
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
@vaninec SOCIAL DEMOCRACY = CAPITALIST SYSTEM
ECONOMIC SYSTEM: Capitalism
SOCIAL DEMOCRACY shopuld be all nations system. Because ONLY in that CAPITALISM have change to success with LESS Corruption and with More EQUALITY. I know I used to live in that kind of state, but now in NWO things are getting fucked up..
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
@PNACATTACKdotCOM
Social-Socialism
Capital-Capitalism
get IT
vaninec 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@vaninec get yourself! i see you are either idiot or lazy.
SOCIAL DEMOCRACY = CAPITALIST SYSTEM
go to wikipedia and study and see itself and study!
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
@PNACATTACKdotCOM
what you saiyng Capitalism can be Socialistic??
vaninec 1 year ago
@vaninec nope. Nope. CAPITALISM with SOCIAL RESPONCIBILITY = SOCIAL DEMOCRACY. Read about it.
System where SOCIAL DEMOCRACY have been adapted like in SCANDINAVIAN STATES before NWO, real expansions of GLOBALISM- has been Best working Capitalism ever. Scandic states have been the best working 10 states group in the world.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
@vaninec Agreed
DrYork100 8 months ago
A hierarchical society is only possible on the basis of poverty and ignorance....so true - it's what allows a continuous stream of cannon fodder...ahem, soldiers
onemanband1963 2 years ago
Yeah, that war is sure meant to be continuous!
That explains why Bush is still in office!
...
Wait.
bloodrunsclear 2 years ago
he's oh soo right about this
danaebalcells4 2 years ago
WAR is PEACE! IGNORANCE is STRENGTH!, FREEDOM is SLAVERY! did he write the protocols as well?
rulerwithcounsel 2 years ago
Do you know how it calls the music of foundation?
884517 2 years ago
Exellent quote.
AkibA82 3 years ago
i love this quote
mynadsronfire 3 years ago
Que sincero!! jajajaja
asukax 3 years ago