Copper Cooktop Wood Stove! Part 1 (WAY better than steel!)

[frosty9595]

First time I ever saw jamie use a real hammer!

[kenfo0]

Your proposition doesn't make sense. If you want the most efficient, longest lasting cook surface, you would have removable cast iron inserts. You remove them, set the pot over the hole into the fire, and nearly 100% of heat is transfered. This has been known for over 200 yrs (see Franklin stove).

[domokid]

Hey bro, Copper you shouldnt cook with, whenever they make copper pots they always coat it or make it two pieces so the copper doesnt touch the for the food. when copper is heated to high temperatures it makes bad stuff called copuric oxide

kindof a black dust. This stuff really toxic and should be avoided for cooking.

[FolstrimHori]

OOH, listen to Everfalling's comment!

[FolstrimHori]

What does your family think about your eccentric lifestyle?

[Everfalling]

you're gonna want to make sure you don't eat anything off that green patina stain cause i'm pretty sure it's really toxic. also i think the reason why it's preferred to make stove tops from steel or iron rather than copper is because even though copper heats up faster it also dissipates the heat faster. iron and steel are good for holding the heat and spreading it out evenly.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling the reason copper is not used in wood stoves is because it will not last. It will oxidize and burn over time (rot). That time is very short compared to iron/steel. Also, copper is MUCH more expensive.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 can you point me to where it says this? as far as i was told copper oxidation, at least where cupric nitrate is involved, the patina actually protects the copper from further oxidation because it doesn't oxidate further into the metal like rust does. this is why the statue of liberty hasn't been destroyed by the constant assault of salt water and weather in general.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling "where 'it' says 'this'"? Well, you could take several years of chemistry. You could ask yourself why stoves are not made of copper, and weren't when copper was cheap. There are lots of ways to know things. Next, we move onto "the SoL hasn't been destroyed by salt water....". YIKES. NY harbor is NOT salt water, first of all. Next, the SoL is Constantly under repair and renovation due to oxidation. At some pt, it will wear out if not constantly and expensively updated.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 "Well, you could take several years of chemistry." well i didn't and since you seem to know i was just asking if you'd be willing to tell me. " You could ask yourself why stoves are not made of copper, and weren't when copper was cheap." i did ask myself that, and thus why i asked you since, again, you seemed to know. :/

ok my bad about the salt water. as for the oxidation, cupric nitrate actually protects the copper from further corrosion (or at least retards corrosion severely)

[kenfo0]

@Ever Then i sincerely apologize, as it appeared you were telling me what I don't know, when in fact, I do. Any product of oxidation has a mild effect of slowing corrosion to the extent that there is less surface area. I would have to look at the compound to see what effect it would have. The reason to make the SoL out of copper instead of granite (which would last nearly forever) or cast iron (which would last a really long time...longer than copper) is cost of working it and sheer weight.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 "iron > copper"  this part confuses me. the thickness of the SoL is only 2.4mm yet it's survived corrosion from oxidation since it was built (wikipedia says "The Army Corps of Engineers studied the patina for any ill effects to the statue and concluding that it protected the skin, 'softened the outlines of the Statue and made it beautiful.'") yet if you had a plate of 2.4mm steel/iron there'd be holes in it from rust within a few years as rust oxidizes inwards fairly quickly.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 in fact copper statues have been pulled out of the sea with relatively little damage compared to anything they might recover that was iron. even if cupric nitrate does continue to oxidize it's by far superior than iron when it comes to longevity when exposed to the elements unless you treat the iron to resist corrosion.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling If corrosion were the only issue in picking a metal for the SoL, one might choose brass, which is far more rust resistant and was available at the time. Many objects on ships were brass, for that reason. Again, though, cost is an issue.

[touchsmart0]

YOU SHOULD MAKE JIFFY PUFF

[justice1812]

I love that you said Steam Punk, it'd be so cool if you powered your giant robot by a steam engine and made large parts of it out of copper

[carp1844]

Copper is a key ingredient in high end cookware so I think your in good company.

[Mongo8Bongo]

poke poke.

[seudechrist]

lol i hope those are name brand snips..

[motters2001]

The copper has a higher thermal conductance, I think.

[ReddmanDGZ]

Copper corrodes pretty fast when being heated. The oxides are more prone to burn away so it's less noticeable. It will eventually need to be replaced, just like steel/iron would need to be.

[furroy2]

i don't know about copper stoves, but if you search for copper pots and pans you can find thousands of them.

[jacktheripped]

reason for no copper stoves is cost, copper is very expensive.

Why do you think there are no copper pennys anymore and hear reports of people stealing copper wireing right out of houses.

[Everfalling]

there are still copper pennies, just not fully copper pennies. the ones today are copper plated. it's actually illegal to melt down pennies for the copper.

and yeah abandoned buildings are copper goldmines for scrappers.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling2.5% of a penny is copper plating. It is illegal to destroy ANY currency...like cutting up a dollar bill. It belongs to the treasury...you are allowed to use it.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 no it's not. if it were then all those machines that press patterns into pennies for souvenirs would be illegal. it's only illegal to deface or alter currency with the intent to alter its value. If you rip a bill in half you can turn both halves into a bank and exchange them for a new bill. i think i read as long as more than 50% of the bill remains it's still worth something (like if it's fire damaged). It is illegal, however, to smelt pennies for the copper to resell.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling HAHAHA....the fact you say "no it's not" is not reasoning, legality nor fact. It is simply you saying so, and you are wrong. There are federal statutes about defacing currency. Do you think police are going to chase a kid over crushing a penny on a railroad track? Tearing money by accident is not illegal, just like any other accident is not illegal. I thought you might be reasonable, and that is why I posted at all. You are not. Sorry I was mistaken.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 "HAHAHA....the fact you say "no it's not" is not reasoning, legality nor fact. It is simply you saying so, and you are wrong." :/ and you saying 'yes it is" isn't either.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling yes, but I backed mine up by saying there are federal statutes, and that is the truth and you can verify it. I can say "the earth is not flat and that's been known for hundreds of years". It is not false because I uttered it. It is true, and is easily verifiable. That is the point. People today do not understand the difference btwn lies, facts and opinion, and it is causing great problems. The internet is not "truth", it is a soup of mainly b.s. overwhelming the sound of truth.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 and i backed my claim up by citing those very statues showing altering pennies as long as it's not for fraudulent purposes is in fact legal.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling no.  in FACT, you said "then how come.....?". There is nothing on this pg citing a statute (not statue).

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 go to read all comments and look a few posts below this comment. i posted a link to wikipedia and parkpennies, both cite the statues concerning currency mutilation and both say as long as they're not mutilated with the intention of fraud (meaning to alter the face value of the currency) it's legal. this is, at the very least, where the law stands on pressing coins. there's no equivalent to paper money so you might be right in that respect.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling wikipedia? uh, no, my friend. i posted the STATUTE. A statue is a representation of something else. A statute is a legal term...a kind of law.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 the statute is about intent. if there's no intent to create fraud by altering the currency then it's not illegal. again, this how the penny press machines are allowed to exist because they don't change the value of the coin. check out the penny park website (or just search for the legality of prenny presses) and you'll see that they're allowed to do what they do because they're not intending to create fraud in changing the currencies value.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling YIKES! Where do you see 'intent' in the statute I posted. Nowhere. I will ask bank manager about this, or call my Congressman. I meet with him or his staff here and there. It may well be like turn signals....it is illegal to change lanes w/o signaling, and yet almost no one does any more. Doesn't mean it is not illegal, just means no one is enforcing it.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling ok. so i see 'parkpennies" and yet it is in violation of the statute I provided. I am going to ask the manager at my bank, he ought to know. I am assuming this is a "big business" issue involving the massive corruption today. In my state, for example, it is ILLEGAL, except on one weekend a year BY LAW to say "sales tax paid by store" or "no sales tax", and yet this is clearly violated by a major manufacturer in their ads in print, online and on billboards.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 did you see the bit below the cited statutes with the letter from someone at the Treasury? I think that might answer some of the issue. I think the whole thing might come as a case-by-case basis since they'd have to evaluate whether or not the intention was to create fraud by altering the currency. I'm sure there's a limit to what you can do to money before it's considered devaluing it to the poit of removing it from circulation.

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling My understanding for the reason for the law is that it costs money to make the money. If people went around destroying/defacing money that has to be replaced, it would cost too much. Meaning, maybe it costs 3 cents to make a $1 bill. It has a value of 100cents...the cost of production is accounted for in the budget. If you destroy it before the end of it's useful, budgeted life, now you have 6, 9 12 or whatever cents in that essentially worthless pc of paper. It is unsustainable.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 i'll agree with this because i recall seeing somewhere that it's specifically illegal to smelt pennies down for their copper because it's come to the point where even the thin plating of copper that pennies get makes them cost more to produce than they're worth so theoretically you could obtain a net gain by stripping the copper for resell.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 statutes* but let's not nit-pick spelling typo's :)

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling i usually let typos go until they are persistently the same word....then it is no longer a "typo", but not knowing the correct word. You see it all the time. People will use the wrong homophone for "there" over and over, then claim "it's a typo". The same exact typo over and over? No, it is lack of education and an attempt to excuse it.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 i made the typo twice. that's hardly "persistently" and "over and over".

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling 2x in different posts is persistent. ;) If not, how many? 100? 100,000? What is bad is lately I have been writing an awful lot, and have made a few glaring errors. Upon reading the post, it is obvious. I either have a brain tumor or am typing too fast, too often. I didn't have the problem until about a month ago.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0 i think i kept typing statue instead of statute because i typed statue enough times in the conversation about the statue of liberty... it happens. but it's certainly not a case of lack of education on my part :)

[kenfo0]

@Everfalling here you go: US Code TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, PART I - CRIMES CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY

Sect. 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations

Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or

unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank

bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national

banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal

[kenfo0]

@kenfo0 (cont) Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note,

or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined

under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

[Everfalling]

@kenfo0

it's only illegal to deface coins for the purpose of fraud. No they're not going to arrest kids crushing pennies on a rail road track but i would think they'd have a big problem with the companies that distribute the machines that sell pressed penny souvenirs for 50 cents a pop if it were illegal to do so. here, i'll back it up with some citations: en.wikipedia*org/wiki/Elongate­d_coin & parkpennies*com/pressed-penny/­penny-pressing-legal.htm

[taitungknight]

Nice smithing! Very smooth and even!

[millamulisha]

JME... I have a cool idea... Why don't you build a blacksmith! that would be soo cool...

[paperjack93]

A blacksmith is a person. What you mean is a forge.

[tcbink]

Don't really need the notches with copper just a good ball peen.

[pyrrho314]

cool. Why are there no copper stoves? I ran assuming you must be wrong about the melting point, but it seems pretty high. I tried to double check on the heat of a wood fire, found ~1300 F for coals... which give 700 F margin which seems enough to deal with the fact that there is heaver wearing before actual melting point... And the thermal conductivity is incredible compared to steel. Maybe it's the wearing.

But anyway... awesome again. You're one of my favorite genius'.

[13igAdam2040]

It's mostly the whole "it can poisoning you", it the same reason why copper water pipes (for potable water) is no longer used.

[pyrrho314]

I was thinking that but they have copper top stoves... it should be fine if you don't cook right on it, yeah?

Is there some vaporizing temp where the copper doesn't melt but sends copper fumes off?

[masterFLASH102]

JME Mantzel for world domination anyone? I like the time-lapsed progress of the hole in the top. Pretty crafty Mr. Mantzel...pretty crafty!

[warravenfk2001]

do you have any plans to polish the copper? i've always liked the look of shiny copper :P

also, since copper is such a good conductor of heat, if you need extra cook space -- for when all your buddies come over and need hot snacks -- do you think some sort of copper attachment that could maybe clamp on top -- and just give you more surface area -- would work?

btw, love your projects :D

[JMEMantzel]

Plans to polish copper? Hmm... lemme see. i'll make out now.

Lets see..

Operation copper shine plans

1. get stuff

2. shine copper.

3. wooooo.......

[pyrrho314]

copper is a beautiful metal, polished, brushed, or especially distressed.