Caprica and the Queerness of Sam Adama

[LauraSeabrook]

Perhaps another issue with this is that apart from Sam's partner, he's the ONLY openly gay male on the show, so even though the presentation seems "fair", it's still just tokenisation. It disturbed me as well that the other antagonist on the show Clarice, is shown in a polygamous situation - that works! Once again a situation where a seemingly fair treatment of a situation, but focussed on a mass murderer.

if other non-hetero and non-monogamous relationships were shown, would have been better.

[RaymondoPerson]

and here's another video that I agree with - I totally think that gays would benefit from having more characters that just happen to be gay and *aren't* murderers. it does seem that there always has to be a catch, either this or having gays be these wacky 'charming' stereotypes.

[scottandrewhutchins]

John Constantine came out as bi rather subtly in Hellblazer #51 He mentions bringing girlfriends "or the odd boyfriend" to a particular hangout. Prior to this issue, he was always portrayed as straight, but with numerous gay friends.

Then there is Midnighter and Apollo... I think Apollo is a little more stereotypical than Midnighter.

[Abridgedfan134]

As a gay man in the culture sphere, I'm fine with gay people being morally on the wrong side, as long as their "villany" doesn't stem from their sexuality, and if it does stem from that, its because of how society has treated them and not because of their sexuality is just evil in nature. I'd rather take a morally ambigious gay character with dimensions and flaws than an over the top saint like Kurt on Glee.

[GaEv4]

Your comment about stereotypes reminds me of something I've noticed in a character of a show I like (My family). Around the time of the show's ninth series the cast and crew decided to make him gay. This wasn't a problem but what I have noticed is that ever since they did that he has changed the clothes he wears and his voice is a lot softer.

I could be wrong but it seems like the writers have changed these aspects of his character to make him match traditionally held cliches about gay men.

[MisterAvailable]

I find it far more problematic when certain people demand that all gay characters in TV series and movies are presented in the same positive and politically correct light. This is just as narrow-minded as portraying all gays as being evil or flamboyant.

[markmatson]

Identifying problems in our culture is a worthwhile endeavor. Everything our host says is correct, but it goes beyond this. In a world where homosexuality is accepted and normal, there is nothing wrong with this character. In a world where gays are considered scary and abnormal, this character can add to the stereotype. In reality, we live in both worlds simultaneously.

I personally believe the benefits of characters like Sam outweigh the negatives, but I get our (unnamed?) host's point.

[ghandiwon]

@markmatson The problem isn't necessarily in his representation as sociopathic, it's that for some reason movie and television refuse to make a gay character both normalized (as he is here) AND on the good side, it's exclusively one or the other. However, they have no issue with making a gay character both opposites (stereotypical and absurdly monstrous). Similar to what you said, this character would be a non issue if there were characters to counterbalance but there just aren't.

[LanceDirk]

That's one thing I like about Doctor Who. In Doctor Who, sometimes there will be characters that will make passing references to their significant other of the same sex, or some other comment that reveals their sexuality, and usually it's a totally normal character where their homosexuality is not some enormous plot point.

[PompamooseMagique]

@LanceDirk Doctor Who is a beacon of hope for gay sci-fi fans, it has to be said. Also, some pretty decent female characters AND it was the first show on the bbc (in the '60s this is) to have a female producer.

[invisigoth841]

While watching your video I was thinking to myself, 'well it wouldn't be problematic or at least not AS problematic, if there were other queer characters whose queerness was also a complete non-issue within the series.' Then I remembered: there was. Sam's husband. He isn't stereotypical, and Sam's job as a hitman is a source of tension in their relaysh. Unfortunately, since Sam was a prominent secondary character, scenes depicting his home life (and husband) were usually the ones cut for time.

[invisigoth841]

I see what your saying but...something. I don't know. I am inclined to want to counter your really legit and insightful criticisms of films and TV shows that I like, because I guess I'm kind of an apologist. But in this case, I think you make good points, but are actually wrong in a way. I felt like Caprica bought the right to make Sam a murderer without there being unfortunate implications BECAUSE his homosexuality was so normalized.

[wawaspa]

If you want healthy gay representations you should watch the British Doctor Who and Torchwood

[gimpweener]

that was great

[hazelsteacup]

Sam Adama is emblematic of what's wrong with the series. Fans complained--rightly--about the lack of queer characters/POC and male-centrism of BSG, so they added queer people, POC,

& women to the show, but they maintained those characters as homophobic/misogynistic/racist stereotypes (to appease their "base"?). Yippee. The one thing they handle at all well is the Zoe-in-robot-body-as-metaphor-­for-gender-dysphoria (WTF since when did TV handle that well?).

@adoubled321: Gaeta was bi, not gay.

[jeibal02]

Except that he's not GAY, gay is a social construct of current human civilization :)...those gay men who are flamboyant and obsessed with fashion are okay to me, Im not that kind of gay male but I dont find them intimidating, or misrepresenting because they do represent us...I would like to have more guys like me on TV but I'll take what I can get..and I agree, Sam Adama was a negative stereotype in disguise :(

[Sukishofan17]

besides his relationship with his partner seems really normal and natural. They argue, but it's evident they care deeply for each other. He's gay and he's a hit man, it's the whole we have to look at, not the pieces. You seem to understand that well

[gvcdkg]

at first i was excited to watch a new gay character but after seeing that hes crazy its a let down. Your right I'm gay and it sucks that a lot of the shows either show us as flamboyant to the extreme or crazy. :( but there are two guys on brothers and sisters that i just started to watch and its really a breath of fresh air.

[RhydosTheBrowncoat]

Sam Adama may be an evil murderer, but he's a complex character and there's yet to be a character (on Caprica) that isn't morally compromised in some fashion. I believe in the end, we will judge these people not for their sexuality, but their actions. And that is probably what the writers are going for.

[TelepathicPebble]

If you watch the show, you should notice that Sam Adama is not evil. Sure, he's a hitman, murder, etc. But its not that black and white. So what, a villain can't happen to be gay without people accusing the writers of hidden messages? As long as they don't make his sexuality a focus for his villainous or anything like that, I think they represented his character well. Though I do agree, too often gay characters are villains like James Franco on General Hospital.

[feministfrequency]

@TelepathicPebble Watch the "That's So Gay" video I posted in the notes section for a history of the trope I'm talking about.

[RobotsAreOnEarth]

@feministfrequency - I cant find the 'Thats so gay' video you're referring to.

[feministfrequency]

@RobotsAreOnEarth Oh sorry, about that... I put the link in the NOTES section now.

[ubercomrade]

Have you seen Battle Star? Galen is gay and nobody makes a big deal about it. He also isn't a serial killer.

[feministfrequency]

@ubercomrade He was only revealed to be gay in the webisode (not to the larger audience of the show). He was also a turncoat and a mutineer (which was framed as negative on the show)

[Halo4Lyf]

@feministfrequency You mean Gaeta. Felix Gaeta. Officer who worked in the CIC. Galen Tyrol is the deck chief. He was married and had children by the end of the series, although his wife was murdered.

[feministfrequency]

@Halo4Lyf Yup, you are totally right, I do mean Gaeta, thanks for pointing that out.

[Qwofacenosehead]

@ubercomrade Well, he's also a traitor.

[RefusetoListen]

From what you said about how he isn't a stereotypical gay character, I'm thinking that the fact that this character is also a murderer isn't inflicting fear towards gay people because for most viewers, including you, it's said in passing in a way that is barely noticed.

[feministfrequency]

@RefusetoListen the first two times it is said subtly but as the story progresses it is made clear that Sam is gay.

[dfctomm]

Hey, what if he's not gay, but just likes guys. I know that sounds strange, but let me finish. What if unlike every other gay person in the world his sexuality doesn't define him, but instead he's defined by his criminal inclinations, and being gay is just a side line. What if Sam considers himself a murderer, and not a gay man? That is what I find appealing about the character. He may be the first gay ever portrayed on TV that was not defined by sexuality, but instead by something else.

[JustMeBubbles]

"i'd be hopelessly trying to flirt with some guy, meanwhile your dad would get a date with the sister" :D

[imstumped]

I agree with you that there need to be gay characters who aren't killers, but in Caprica being a killer doesn't necessarily make one an "evil" person. The entire Tauron society is based around vengeance and justice and respecting your culture's and family's customs. If anything, Sam Adama is shown as being the ideal Tauron man. He's strong, he supports his family, he's there as a role model and an ear for his nephew, he gets tattoos to note significant events/people, etc.

[feministfrequency]

@imstumped Just because the whole Tauron society is based around vengeance (which I would hardly call justice) doesn't mean that it's okay. The show actually complicates ALL the characters (which makes it interesting) however since Sam *would* be a bad guy, they just flipped it and made him a sympathetic hit man. We are made to like and approve of his regardless of his "job".

[imstumped]

@feministfrequency I could see your point if he was the only hit man on the show, but the whole Tauron society is set up as being that way - as are other characters. They may be somewhat backward and old-fashioned - as Joseph feels - but they are internally consistent and support one another. As far as good vs. evil, Daniel Greystone is by far the bad guy. He pretends to be helping people when he's really doing whatever puts himself forward. He goes out of his way to hurt people he loves.

[feministfrequency]

@imstumped I know Daniel is one of the bad guys but the show is set up to complicated the idea of hero/villain. I can appreciate that. The whole Tauron society might all value vengeance but not all of them are hit men.

[imstumped]

@feministfrequency True, true. They're not all hit men, but as far as I can tell they all have/use/approve of the hit men within their society - except Joseph. He's moving from his traditional mores to the Caprican values, which puts him closer in line with ours and farther from his own Tauron family's. Joseph is supposed to be the good guy (or one of them) but for several episodes he's more of a bad guy because he's failing his son's very urgent emotional needs. Sam is the father figure.

[adoubled321]

@imstumped Agreed, she has judged his character on our society and not on Tauron culture.

[feministfrequency]

@adoubled321 The story was written by people in OUR society and it is a commentary on OUR society. We can't just look at stories independent of the world they were created in, we have to take into account the people who write and create them.

[adoubled321]

@feministfrequency Acually, you might have a good point there. When I look bad to the BSG series and Caprica, you first have Admiral Kane, who turned out to be a psychopath with no regards to anyone else's lives. Even killed her closest friend on board in front of the entire crew, even ordered the deaths of civilians she was sworn to protect. Then you have Lt. Gaeta, who was responable for a mutany and couse many deaths, at the same time betraying everyone he cared about. Both played gay roles.

[Polunderpunk]

He is one of the best characters of the show and in his family the one who is not completly messed up.

I think it is great to have such a cool gay character on screen. His sexuality nearly isn´t mentioned because it is just normal and doesn´t effect the story.

I see no problem with a queer, crazy murderer.

But I must admit that I love those characters most in TV-Series (Baltar. Bester. Cartagia. The Master etc. - I love them all ;) )

[feministfrequency]

@Polunderpunk There would be no problem with it if there were loads of queer characters on TV both good and bad.

[Polunderpunk]

@feministfrequency

But aren´t there a lot queer characters on TV - most of them good? (and cliche. But...that´s not the point ;) )

So that is, what I love about Sam. And in the setting of Caprica he is not THE bad guy. They are all...well...bad (depends on how you define it) .

I think at that point you can´t compare Sam in Caprica with just another character in a totally different series.

[PaulIn25SecondsADay]

@feministfrequencey I meant in the narrative, he is a decidingly evil character. I think it is important for gay characters to be intergrated into all levels of a narrative. It shows that we're people and being homosexual is an amoral factor.

[PaulIn25SecondsADay]

@feministfrequencey

I noticed this as well when I watched Caprica for the first time and I agree with your arguement over the monstrification of homosexuality in media; however, there is also a positive thing to Sam Adamas character. The fact that he is gay is story-non-vital. It doesn't effect the way you feel about him, you hate him, but not because he's gay.

[feministfrequency]

@PaulIn25SecondsADay I don't hate him. I just think his character is problematic, especially because he is so likeable.

[LurkingGoblin]

... hes not evil, hes a mafia hitman. that makes him amoral. also you are forgeting that guys like brutal killing of stuff with knives... so by making him the way they did, they actually made being gay COOL... you are also assuming everyone agree that violence is bad. when in fact most of us(girls included) like it. also i would go so far as to say he is the coolest male gay... wait... ok SECOND coolest male gay character. (Jack Harkness of torchwood is the coolest.)

[fivecrownsful]

Stereotyping is a big problem in our society. Have your ever heard of the youtuber Airicksreloaded? He has done some great videos on this issue look him up somethime. Also have you ever done a video about general gender stereotyping?

[MrFalderal]

I rethought this. After seeing Sam's depiction as problematic initially, I now think that the issue might be a little more comlicated. First of all, his homosexuality isn't really much of a topic, some viewers might not even have noticed it fully. If it was, or if it was brought into connection with him being a killer, thing mights be different but here the moral quality of his actions and his sexuality are presented as not having anything to do with each other. And of course that's how it is.

[feministfrequency]

@MrFalderal I'm with you on the last part of this, it is how it is... but my point in making the video is because queer representations have a history of being represented as evil or otherwise bad, (or they are stereotypically effeminate). I'll try to compile a list of queer characters who are villainized to try and make this point more clear.

[MrFalderal]

@feministfrequency Well, the question is if you can blame Caprica for the history of queer representations? "We created a queer character who happens to be a murderer but it is you who is making the connection between the two." You seem to be asking of them to necessarily make a character good because he is queer or that queers can't be bad on TV - wouldn't this repeat the thought pattern behind discrimination? Also, do you think they purposely made Sam and Gaeta "bad" because they are queer?

[feministfrequency]

@MrFalderal It is not specifically about BSG/Caprica but the overall trend in the industry. But in the BSG universe nearly all (maybe all) the queer characters were bad/evil of some sort... take Admiral Cain as another very blatant example. And frankly, what is wrong with making the queer characters good?

[MrFalderal]

@feministfrequency I just find it hard to criticise single instances of "bad queers", especially when the queerness is as normalised und un-clichéd as it is in Caprica. To be honest, I think our problem is not so much an abundance of "bad" queer characters but a shortage of positive identification figures who are queer. To me, this doesn't mean that all the "bad queers" on TV need to become "good queers" but just that we need MORE queers on TV, some "good", some "bad" ;)

[feministfrequency]

@MrFalderal I completely agree!

[MrFalderal]

Hey! I had exactly the same thought when watching this! Subscribed :P.

[Imhotep397]

Ok, while I can agree with you on the fact that it's good that the gay orientation was revealed in a casual way I completely disagree with you on everything else.

The knives as phallic symbols is a stretch, but I don't assume that everything that's function that's not a circular or square type shape is a phallic symbol either. Fictional assassins are "Graded" on their stealthiness and how close they can get to their jobs many times. The guy virtually being a serial killer...

[patsybob]

Yeah Ugly Betty shows gay men as , highly interested in fashion, very flamboyant, quite emotional, only female friends, just the normal stereotype packaged in a television series, also i cant believe that gay people are made out to be serial killers, there not evil they are the same as anyone! their sexual orientation has nothing to be feared of!

[CAHawksmoor1]

This is a very interesting point. I'm a big fan of Caprcia, but already it seems to have bigger problems with gender and sexuality than BSG did (and BSG, like you say, was far from perfect).

From a polyamorous perspective, that's also something that's seen as normalised in Caprica, but the characters in the group marriage are all STO (and therefore 'bad'/'evil'). It's also interesting to see that the women in Caprica are either used as tools (Zoe/Tamara/Lacey) or unbalanced (Amanda/Clarice).

[WarioDuke]

I watched the entire BSG series and one of the characters I liked the most was Gaeta which was a strong, ethical and trustworthy man, turns out he was gay, also his boyfriend became admiral of the fleet (for like 2 seconds but anyway) I guess he was gay to. I can not simply believe that the creators of a series like that could try to say what you affirm. Shame on you for discriminate a "good" and a "bad" gay character based on your moral conception of what "kind of" gay we should see on tv.

[feministfrequency]

@WarioDuke Well actually BSG did the same thing with its queer characters, Gaeta was a mutineer and a turncoat (ultimately framed as bad), there was the cylon saboteur, and Cain was an evil, crazy and manipulative woman who tortures prisoners (obviously villainized).

On my website there is a link to another blogger who talks about this phenomenon in the BSG universe.

[WarioDuke]

@feministfrequency I know I must seem like a real fanboy but these are just my thoughts. Gaeta had a reason for the things he did, as he saw it he was bringing justice and I think it made sense in his character development. Also in the series everyone was kind of crazy not just Cain, I see in her many things apart from the bad, if only the will to keep fighting after the entire human race was wipped out. Not even Adama was perfect, they all had flaws and that's what makes the series so rich.

[Dirge987]

You'd have a problem with him if he were strait. You'd say something about how over masculine symbols warp the minds of boys and reinforce the "bad boy" stereotype in girls. There's no way to please you, you're going to pick it apart no matter what anyone does.

[feministfrequency]

@Dirge987 I am not just picking at the character because he is a hitman, I am picking at the character because it is a commonly homophobic trope that has been used in Hollywood for decades to reaffirm homophobic beliefs by villanizing or demonizing queer characters.

[tauceti1234]

Wow, I got to 1 minute in and then left my comment, and then watched the rest.

Wow.

[tauceti1234]

Reminds me of Doctor Who's Jack Harkness and the rest of the sexuality-twisting characters on Torchwood, which was great for the same reason. They were gay or straight or whatever, and there was never any agony over it. They were who they were. Big props to Russell T Davies for making that happen.

[cswood413]

I wouldn't call Sam evil. He's a thug. Aside from him being gay, he's a typical thug. On The Wire, Omar was the best character. He was gay, but he also stole and killed people. But so did a lot of people on that show.

I write. But I avoid writing gay characters for just this reason. SOMEBODY'S going to have a problem with it. Either too much or not enough of something. I'll leave gay characters to gay writers.

[rabidchevy]

@cswood413 so... a guy who kills people for money/power isnt evil? what mental acrobatics does your mind go through, and another thing people are ALWAYS going to have a problem with what you do but only some spineless bastard cowed by whatever politically correct bull shit lets that stop him.

[missbraindamage]

@cswood413 Just because someone's going to have a problem doesn't mean you should give up on trying to portray a gay character that's well-developed and not drenched in stereotypes

[cormano64]

@cswood413 I don't mean to be rude, but that's a cop out. To give up on writing a character which is part of a sizable chunk of society because you might hear complaints about it?

Basically, any work of art you put out there will draw some criticism eventually, for any number of reasons.

You are depriving yourself of a an learning opportunity here. I say you should risk write in a gay character and see what happens.

[scottandrewhutchins]

@cswood413 As a writer, I would say that it's risky writing gay characters for exactly that reason. I wrote for a script about a lesbian love triangle, but the director, who was having me flesh out his concept, was telling me that he would be crazy to film what I wrote, probably because the one who was newly lesbian was ridiculously homonormative.

I have an original script that has a lesbian couple among the supporting cast. I don't know what the response will be if anyone ever sees it.

[molluskweddin]

Wait, I'm sorry, this is common? I can't think of a single other gay character that is also a hitman. Frankly, I think that treating gay characters as *real human beings* with just as many flaws as straight people is *vital* to the normalization of homosexuality in film and television. Sam Adama is hands down my favorite gay character on television right now.

[feministfrequency]

@molluskweddin @1ERIC2YOU there is no problem with a gay hitman, the problem is with the reoccurring villanization of queer characters regularly in Hollywood. If being queer was normalized and we saw lots of doctors, heroes, mothers and fathers who just happened to be queer in contemporary television and films then this representation would not stand out.

[cool2k24]

...

If you want to see him as evil.. well... he is not the only one. The other characters you could consider evil are not gay so.. . why should a gay character deserve special considerations if we are supposed to be all equals?

I can assure you that we will see "good" gay characters too.

I think the conflict is just not there.

Great videos by the way !

[cool2k24]

I think if you are looking desperately for something you will find it... even if it's not there...

Sam is a great character that shows one thing and one thing only, as the rest of characters do, and it is that humans are neither good nor evil.. humans are humans... with paths and choices that's all.

...continue...

[LolaLocal]

It's interesting that many people feel like you were saying that Sam being gay is a causal factor in him being a hit man. You weren't saying that the two have any correlation in terms of causality, just that they are presented in the same person. Because this is a popular & widespread representation in media, it further increases the chance that when people think "gay" they will then think (even unintentionally or subconsciously) psycho.

[feministfrequency]

@LolaLocal yup, that's exactly it, thanks!

[ardezona]

But...that's what makes this murderous character so great. If he kills people because he is so confused about the proper usage of knives, then you can't expect him to know the proper usage of his manhood.

[torhagen]

I believe you're over analysing this. He is a killer because his character belongs to the Tauron Mafia not because he is gay.

[VigilanteNighthawk]

I wouldn't necessarily read too much into the fact that Sam is a hitman. I believe the role of hitman was likely chosen because it is masculine. Furthermore, if put into a martial context, the knives do not represent simply sadism but also skill and mastery. It takes a good deal more skill to approach and kill a target with a knife than it does a gun. You may also want to consider taking a look at Leon from The Professional as a heterosexual analogue.

[inabear3]

why don't you talk about real problems in the world.

[amyleona2]

I think that Sam does have a strong moral compass. If you continue watching Capric, he states that when he kills someone, he has to convince himself that it isn't real, that it's just part of a game.

[eventualssb]

I really dont think that sam adama is portrayed as monsterous at all. He kills only in the most noble of cases, by his definition (even if we dont share the different moral structures of the tauran community in which he is raised). I personally never in any way associated Sams violent nature with his sexuality, but rather with his tuaran heritage.

[seekortry]

I have to say.. I don't really see Sam Adama as a bad guy, at least not at this point in the series. He battles other bad guys. He might do it working for the Tauran mob. But he very clearly is a positive character when you study his dedication to family and his own sense of virtues. The show highlights a lot, even poly families and does it neutrally.

[GeneticsGuy]

I think you're being a biased. You're only 2 episodes in, and you assume he's evil.

[celticdenefew]

I'm not sure how long ago you made that video, but as you watch Caprica each week, you discover that Sam's murderous side of him has nothing to do with being gay... It's his Tauron upbringing. Joseph's mother in law states something along the lines of "I could kill her and sleep well every night" She's not part of the mob, she's not gay, she's Tauron.

Sam is by far my fave character & I love watching the scenes with him and William... you can see how he's shaping the future commander.

[cuneengleengueest]

Also, I do not think the lines of "good and bad" are clear cut at all on Caprica. STO is "bad" only as viewed by mainstream Caprican society. I don't think it comes across that way to the audience. At least, it hasn't to me.

Sam Adama looks like he's going to be quite fully developed and complex, although I didn't think so initially from the pilot. I don't really see how one can see him as an archetype or a simple trope. This sounds like confirmation bias to me to read it this way.

[cuneengleengueest]

I don't really see how Sam Adama is being portrayed as evil. I mean, I understand - he's a hitman. But he's very morally grounded within his own cultural framework. He has a strong sense of family and traditional values. I do not think he's being demonized or being portrayed as a sociopath. He's a quite sympathetic character and I don't see how anyone watching the show could see him as categorically evil.

[raynebowlocket]

Torchwood's main character is gay, and most of the characters treat sexuality fairly fluidly and none of it seems awkward or weird.

[Babsj]

All of the characters in BSG at one point or another committed acts which were less than ethical. The fact that some of those characters happened to be gay hardly represents some singling out of gay characters as "evil/bad." Nor were any of the lapses of any of the characters tied to their sexual orientation. All of BSG's characters had flaws, not because they were gay or straight, but because they were humans in extraordinary circumstances.

[PaulaEdwina]

I don't see it as a problem at all. He's gay but he's a mob enforcer. I don't see any conspiracy. It's like Steve Burton in General Hospital - the hottness is that he's a mob enforcer (sorry, I need a moment....). Playing it like a trope showing him being queer and amoral is paranoid I think. I think they understand their audience - the biggest fans of slash are females. The biggest fans of bad boys are females. So here's a hot bad boy who comes pre-slashed - not necessary to slash him in fic.

[Unclesamslair]

@PaulaEdwina took me a while to figure out you were referring to the other meaning of the word slash.

[Carmelonia]

Once we reach a point in society where queer stereotypes are not the norm in visual media, there will be little disappointment with a character like Sam. However, because media is FULL of queer characters who are killers or are crazy, the fact of the matter is, we're still waiting for someone to break the mold. No 'token' gay. At least Sam Adama has a code of honor and exhibits love and devotion for his family. He is not without integrity. But that doesn't excuse the form mold.

[BSG062]

Check you greek and roman history on this one, thespian-ism was completely accepted in those days, the polygamy however is something That raised a red flag with me, but if you watch this show its nothing new lol

but i digress, when it comes down to it who cares that sam adama is gay, i think taht ron moore did a good job with that, showing the feminine side of a killer and making the audience sympathetic toward him even tho he murders his victims brutally

jv

[kablamo9999]

I'm not sure it has to be a problem. I mean, if his sexuality is normalised, then it doesn't really matter if he's gay or not. If he was straight and a murderer, would that be somehow better? I'm not sure it matters, he just happens to be gay. But I haven't watched the show, so I don't know.

[feministfrequency]

You're right, it doesn't have to be a problem, and as an individual representation it's not. The problem is the reoccurring representation of queer as evil. (if you watched BSG all the queer characters turned out to be evil/bad at someone point). Hollywood often makes gay or seemingly gay characters the bad guys and it is rare to see gay characters (especially normalized ones) being the heroes or at least being a positive representation.

[kablamo9999]

I didn't know that about BSG, but that's pretty bad then. There are a couple of good examples of gay characters in TV and movies though. Tara and Willow from Buffy, and also Elin and Agnes from the movie Show Me Love. Could probably not hurt with more well made characters who are gay.

Btw, I like your videos!

[Sal0pe69]

Yeah it suck in Hollywood, when they make a step forward they have to make two steps behind.

[xtehsex]

Interesting. Nice video.

[jaireaux]

you should check out last weekend's This American Life. there's a great piece about the removal of homosexuality from the DSM. one of the points made by the researchers was that homosexuality was added to the DSM because the only place psychiatrists encountered people discussing their homosexual tendencies was in therapy, so they thought homosexual=crazy. it wasn't until studies were done with homosexuals not in therapy that they realized it wasn't a "condition".

[richlisola1]

Yeah, but you ought to look at this way, even had the character been straight he'd still be a killer. That's just part of the overall storyline and it remains to be seen which aspect of his character being gay, or being a gangster will be more important.

[kurtywurty85]

So true haha

I love your videos

[sjatty]

i also wonder to what extentis queerness being used to normalize very gendered notions of what it is to be a man and masculinity...i mean he's buff, tattooed and represents the sterotypical 'macho man' and im womdering if the message could also be taken up as 'see macho ''normal'' men can be queer too!' as opposed to using queerness to completely deconstruct the gender binary and standardized notion of masculinity. do you get what i'm saying

[feministfrequency]

@sjatty Yes I do understand what you are saying and I also agree that gender norms are still extremely polarized on television and in films and it's not necessarily positive to normalize a hegemonic masculinity like that. I would love to see fully developed, rich and complex characters that are not restricted to hurtful and oppressive tropes.

[tamashiinorufuran]

To quote Jane Espenson (Caprica producer/writer):

"It is a concern we had. I mean, Sam's a killer, Clarice is a terrorist, and they're our two most sexually diverse characters. Are we doing more harm than good? But I kept coming back to they're complex, real people who we aren't bending them around to accommodate their preference. They're the most interesting people for our world and our stories, and making the sexuality incidental. It's time to start doing that."

[feministfrequency]

@tamashiinorufuran It's nice that they thought about it and I would agree with Espenson about the complexity of characters. I think the problem lies in the fact that this demonizing of queer characters is a reoccuring trope, there isn't very many positive, heroic queer characters to balance the scale so to speak. I mean why couldn't Zoe have two fathers and Daniel Graystone be the primary queer character? That rarely if ever happens.

[tamashiinorufuran]

But then: Is Daniel a heroic character? Or even a positive one? I find him disturbingly manipulative and unethical.

Sam, on the other hand, seems to be the most rational member of the Adama family (as compared to Ruth, Joseph or even William). And while he's killing for a living, he's clearly not a psychopath.

I just don't see any demonizing in this show. I really do think that 'Caprica' is taking a step in the right direction, or two. You can't just go there from one day to the next.

[feministfrequency]

@tamashiinorufuran Oh I have so many thoughts about this and, yes the character limit makes it very difficult to reply properly. I think that even though the characters are complex there is still a clear (but sometimes blurry) line of "good and bad." Clearly the STO is a terrorist group and clearly they are supposed to be bad even if we may like the characters. Similarly with Sam, he is a likeable character which makes the trope even worse I think.

[tamashiinorufuran]

I also just realized that YouTube's character limit makes insightful replies kinda impossible. :/