People talk about realism here, and some are offended that U.S. Marines lost whille Japanese naval troopers won.
-Point that Marines had more training is rather a moot point, since training then was nothing like modern times. These days night fighting is trained.
-Jungle skirmish with rainy night not not the best place to score good, aimed hits.
-Flashbang gives great advantage to the troopers covering their eyes.
@ArmaFennica To be fair, these are rather inaccurate. Soldiers do not group together like that, if they enemy their training is to use suppressive fire, flank and destroy the enemy. The fact that this situation happened, the man that fell should be severely punished as well as the commander. No solider nor sailor should ever jeopardize his unit like that under any circumstance. If he cannot cope with the harsh realities for war, nor effectively participate in such events he should not be there.
airmantao: Wow, you're adept at making nasty, broad, stereotyping generalizations AND completely ignoring whatever is being said by the people you're mocking.
People have been debating other inaccuracies in the other Zipang clips, like whether or not Sea Sparrows can stop the Yamato's shells.
But the minute someone has legitimate concerns about the accuracy of THIS scene, it's "ZOMG! Stupid Americans can't stand seeing themselves get pwned! Time to break out the mock logic! Roffles!"
I have no problem with every other instance in the show when the Americans get trounced, because it made sense.
The problem with this scene isn't that the Japanese win, but that objectively it makes no sense for them to win. They're going up against a larger group of better trained fighters in a random encounter, and win an overwhelming victory.
I'd be just as irked if this was US navy soldiers wiping out IJN soldiers.
4 Japanese sailors with absolutely no combat training are able to completely wipe out an entire squad of Marines, without taking a single casualty?
Sure, the Japanese have body armor, but there aren't many vests that are gonna stop a .30-06 at close range. And the Marine squad will still have a firepower advantage because of superior numbers.
Lacking specific land warfare training does not mean a sailor would lack in hand-to-hand combat, or in small arms training, & pertaining to offensive & defensive actions such as ship boarding or combat around Naval bases & stations. Don't forget many of the Marines would also be fairly combat inexperienced at this stage in the war.
The Mirai team did suffer 2 casualties, though how Yanagi didn't become a fatality immediately, considering his predicament, is the most odd.
Yes. But the amount of close combat training sailors would get would be minimal compared to what a Marine assigned to a combat unit would get. Sailors "familiarize" themselves with ground combat tactics. Men from a combat unit make themselves experts on the matter.
Even though both groups are equally inexperienced with REAL combat, the Marines are still better prepared because they've had more training preparing them for it.
And only one of the Sailors ever got hit. And it was in the vest.
Maybe, that japanes guy had a bullet proof vest on, which is why he didnt die, even after getting fired at for some time. Also, its at night, where it is hard to see the target.
They did have bullet proof vests. However most military issue ballistics vests are designed to stop Assault rifle rounds that are significantly weaker than something like the .30-06 Springfield used by the Garand. And darkness doesn't account for why the JMSDF were shooting perfectly, despite not using their NVG's.
I know you feel angry because you probably are American or maybe British, you know the japanese lost miserably on WWII and yet the JAPANESE artist depicts the 4 sailors taking out squads of well trained marines in seconds. But you must understand this is anime and the artist needed to have a scene which illustrates the soldiers who has never seen combat and killed a man before get put in a situation where they have to defend themselves. from now on, you know the 4 will regret this night.
No, I just think that "realistic" shows shouldn't have to put realism by the way side to make a point. They could have still gotten that point down while retaining realism if they did one (or both) of two things.
Replace the Mirai Sailors with actual JMSDF Commandos
-This scene would have been much more plausible if it had been done with Special forces
The Mirai crew use NVG's in an ambush
-Those two factors would have accounted for their lack of training in the fight.
yeah...maybe the artist is just into realism of ships and planes, because you cannot argue the detailed illustration of naval combats. To tell you the truth, even though i was little bothered when i saw this inaccurate scene, and thats why I excused it by saying maybe...bulletproof...dark at night...
I still praise this anime for the awesome art and story line and let go of the unrealistic parts because anime is an art, not a historical accuracy illustration. I still agree with you though.
I think the anime so far is decent (Im not really into anime but am really interested in WWII history) but a few things bugged me. Like a modern SDF sailor physically overpowering a WWII era US Marine? I don't know about that...also some of the imperial forces seem a little to understanding in the case of not wanting casualties becuase at the time to die in war was a seen as a great honor. Where as Germans and Italians would fight less as and surrender as they lost Japanese fought harder.
As I have said on the last replies, there are inaccuracies but its anime, and there are parts when the creator of this anime would want to depict an important lesson for us and would sacrifice reality over lesson, in this case, meaning of taking someones life for their safety. I was bothered by the inaccuracies but didnt get too much offended as i am Japanese.
Also, you may think that every japanese back then still had the spirit of Bushido, fighting till their death, but that was not the case for most. Only few believed in fight for death and those were usually a low ranking officers who had some authorities and didnt have to die themselves. Those people would order the privates to make basai charge, run with a live grenade, and brainwash them by forcing them into stress. Those officers actually came up with kamikaze strategies too.
I'm sorry, American people
ghsrider123 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
結局人殺ししてんじゅん・・・平和とかヒューマニティを履き違えた偽善な漫画だなぁ。
日米の無駄な殺し合いを阻止する大義の目的と、みらいの乗組員を守るためにミニマムの殺人を許容するなら、みらいがさっさとアメリカについて日本を倒すか、日本についてアメリカと早期講和するのかも選択肢のうちだろうに・・・。
平和憲法が作り上げた出来の悪いの日本人の哲学満載だな。
keimajima 1 year ago
意味が読めてない情けない奴がいるなぁ。
「みらい」にとって米軍は敵ではないんだよ。
日本軍も米軍も等しく人命を救いたい相手でしかない。
FTNS0001 2 years ago 6
what come after this episode ?
ENZO234258 2 years ago
味方を守るためなら敵を殺す
でも人の命は助けたい
日本もアメリカも自国民を守る為に
敵を殺すんであって
敵を倒さなければその敵によって
仲間や自国民が殺される
だから上陸した海兵隊等を砲撃するべきだった
砲撃しなかったからアメリカが和平するわけではない・・・
このｱﾆﾒは正直微妙でした＞＜
sunapa84 2 years ago
そんな事思ってたら戦場で生きていけないわ
だめだなぁ
hiromitsu36 2 years ago
Comment removed
Reypeace1 2 years ago
IT SSSS OVAH! PUHT DAWN YUR WAYPON!
Schmidtah 2 years ago
Marines were only issued with Springfield 1903A3 bolt-action rifles, squad leaders would have a Thompson
MauserK43 2 years ago
People talk about realism here, and some are offended that U.S. Marines lost whille Japanese naval troopers won.
-Point that Marines had more training is rather a moot point, since training then was nothing like modern times. These days night fighting is trained.
-Jungle skirmish with rainy night not not the best place to score good, aimed hits.
-Flashbang gives great advantage to the troopers covering their eyes.
-And lastly, neither side ambushed one anothers.
So in all, this was plausible.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago 9
@ArmaFennica To be fair, these are rather inaccurate. Soldiers do not group together like that, if they enemy their training is to use suppressive fire, flank and destroy the enemy. The fact that this situation happened, the man that fell should be severely punished as well as the commander. No solider nor sailor should ever jeopardize his unit like that under any circumstance. If he cannot cope with the harsh realities for war, nor effectively participate in such events he should not be there.
gearbox011 11 months ago
airmantao: Wow, you're adept at making nasty, broad, stereotyping generalizations AND completely ignoring whatever is being said by the people you're mocking.
People have been debating other inaccuracies in the other Zipang clips, like whether or not Sea Sparrows can stop the Yamato's shells.
But the minute someone has legitimate concerns about the accuracy of THIS scene, it's "ZOMG! Stupid Americans can't stand seeing themselves get pwned! Time to break out the mock logic! Roffles!"
ThInTrM 2 years ago 6
That is far from the case I like anime
I have no problem with every other instance in the show when the Americans get trounced, because it made sense.
The problem with this scene isn't that the Japanese win, but that objectively it makes no sense for them to win. They're going up against a larger group of better trained fighters in a random encounter, and win an overwhelming victory.
I'd be just as irked if this was US navy soldiers wiping out IJN soldiers.
captainkommando 3 years ago 3
This is bullshit
4 Japanese sailors with absolutely no combat training are able to completely wipe out an entire squad of Marines, without taking a single casualty?
Sure, the Japanese have body armor, but there aren't many vests that are gonna stop a .30-06 at close range. And the Marine squad will still have a firepower advantage because of superior numbers.
captainkommando 3 years ago
Lacking specific land warfare training does not mean a sailor would lack in hand-to-hand combat, or in small arms training, & pertaining to offensive & defensive actions such as ship boarding or combat around Naval bases & stations. Don't forget many of the Marines would also be fairly combat inexperienced at this stage in the war.
The Mirai team did suffer 2 casualties, though how Yanagi didn't become a fatality immediately, considering his predicament, is the most odd.
Kuisel88 2 years ago
Yes. But the amount of close combat training sailors would get would be minimal compared to what a Marine assigned to a combat unit would get. Sailors "familiarize" themselves with ground combat tactics. Men from a combat unit make themselves experts on the matter.
Even though both groups are equally inexperienced with REAL combat, the Marines are still better prepared because they've had more training preparing them for it.
And only one of the Sailors ever got hit. And it was in the vest.
captainkommando 2 years ago
Maybe, that japanes guy had a bullet proof vest on, which is why he didnt die, even after getting fired at for some time. Also, its at night, where it is hard to see the target.
037kondo 3 years ago
They did have bullet proof vests. However most military issue ballistics vests are designed to stop Assault rifle rounds that are significantly weaker than something like the .30-06 Springfield used by the Garand. And darkness doesn't account for why the JMSDF were shooting perfectly, despite not using their NVG's.
One word explains this nonsensical victory. Wank.
captainkommando 3 years ago
I know you feel angry because you probably are American or maybe British, you know the japanese lost miserably on WWII and yet the JAPANESE artist depicts the 4 sailors taking out squads of well trained marines in seconds. But you must understand this is anime and the artist needed to have a scene which illustrates the soldiers who has never seen combat and killed a man before get put in a situation where they have to defend themselves. from now on, you know the 4 will regret this night.
037kondo 3 years ago 6
No, I just think that "realistic" shows shouldn't have to put realism by the way side to make a point. They could have still gotten that point down while retaining realism if they did one (or both) of two things.
Replace the Mirai Sailors with actual JMSDF Commandos
-This scene would have been much more plausible if it had been done with Special forces
The Mirai crew use NVG's in an ambush
-Those two factors would have accounted for their lack of training in the fight.
captainkommando 3 years ago
yeah...maybe the artist is just into realism of ships and planes, because you cannot argue the detailed illustration of naval combats. To tell you the truth, even though i was little bothered when i saw this inaccurate scene, and thats why I excused it by saying maybe...bulletproof...dark at night...
I still praise this anime for the awesome art and story line and let go of the unrealistic parts because anime is an art, not a historical accuracy illustration. I still agree with you though.
037kondo 3 years ago
I think the anime so far is decent (Im not really into anime but am really interested in WWII history) but a few things bugged me. Like a modern SDF sailor physically overpowering a WWII era US Marine? I don't know about that...also some of the imperial forces seem a little to understanding in the case of not wanting casualties becuase at the time to die in war was a seen as a great honor. Where as Germans and Italians would fight less as and surrender as they lost Japanese fought harder.
m1rock 3 years ago
As I have said on the last replies, there are inaccuracies but its anime, and there are parts when the creator of this anime would want to depict an important lesson for us and would sacrifice reality over lesson, in this case, meaning of taking someones life for their safety. I was bothered by the inaccuracies but didnt get too much offended as i am Japanese.
037kondo 3 years ago
I agree.
KAZUSHIKIMINOUE 2 years ago
Also, you may think that every japanese back then still had the spirit of Bushido, fighting till their death, but that was not the case for most. Only few believed in fight for death and those were usually a low ranking officers who had some authorities and didnt have to die themselves. Those people would order the privates to make basai charge, run with a live grenade, and brainwash them by forcing them into stress. Those officers actually came up with kamikaze strategies too.
037kondo 3 years ago
just because you are american? or what?
califortae 3 years ago
I'm surprised that guy didn't get lit up pointing his weapon at the Marines the whole time.
TheGreenSmoke 3 years ago
Accurate portrayal of both sides... finally. You never really find that elsewhere, do you?
Csp499 4 years ago 12
yanagi must have had a hell of a time yelling im not japanese
Mobius4077 4 years ago 6
This comment has received too many negative votes show
yea, i hate anime, but this is interesting
vdub2002 4 years ago