Im disgusted by the incorrect view that this video shows of Islam. Islam is a Religion with a code of conduct. It focuses mainly on attaining good deeds.
'And he Allah created death and life so that he may test you, which of you is best in Good deed, he Allah is All-mighty, oft-forgiving.' Surat al Mulk verse 2
@Mystickill1 Mystic, I actually left this up just because I think it is pretty funny. I also did go through a weird period there after 9/11 for which I'll forever atone. Violent protests & threats of terrorism are always out of bounds in these cases. I am sorry if you're offended, however, I meant to bash violent fundamentalists just as I do that same % of Christians. I have since these days started a spoof the Islamophobes blog with a dear friend who is a devout Muslim, govvs.blogspot.com....
@Mystickill1 ....(cont.) If you want to see Pamela "Atlas Shrugs" photoshopped into Godzilla I photoshopped my little heart out for a while there then went on hiatus after the well funded LoonWatch (which I love) took over for our busy selves. And mystic, I'm actually beyond the pale these days. Of all things I'm of Christian descent Mikrasian (1/2), the Greek speaking folks from what became Turkey, but I LOVE Turks! And Ataturk. I'm the only Greek descended Kemalist I know of.
yt8675309, When extremists of other religions act contrary to the "actual teaching" of their religion, others in that religion make it CLEAR, by protests and demonstrations, if necessary, that the extremists are acting outside their faith (They reign them in!). Not so with Islam. Tell us when, where and the size of ANY protests or demonstrations, ANYwhere, against ANY terrorist attacks, by Muslims, against non-Muslims. The silence of most Muslims is agreement. Worse, it's participation.
well, fundamentalist christians bomb abortion clinics, how about that? beheadings, no, killing in the name of "god" yes. all of christiandom is not going to rise up and protest those protestors, because we have the government and police to deal with that. in the middle east, if there were those who went against those fundies there, THEY themselves would get beheaded. so its not agreement, its frikkin survival. as an aside, muslims in the states DO protest muslim fundies.
fishgul69, You're what could be called an enabler...someoe who makes excuses for the actions or lack of actions, the behavior, of others. The "gov...police deal with that" here 'cause the vast majority of people will not accept it. Don't say Muslims go against this kind of thing 'cause it's not enough and don't say they can't when they have no prob. saying something 'bout a teddy bear. Sorry, if they're silent it's 'cause they're moral cowards or just plain cowards, or, in a word, pathetic.
ur showing this, do u want Muslims with flowers to thank the westerns for the cartoons they made about our prophet (P.B.U.H),
why dont u make some slide shows of the result after the invasion of iraq by americans the real terrorists, before the invasion every1 know iraq wasnt like that but thanx to u western people u brought blood shed and we do slaughter u like a chicken for invading and binging bloodshed to our country!
mohamad--I made a difficult decision to leave this video on this account, which I left up as archives basically. I no longer will malign Islam, as you will see if you go to my blog. I now also co-blog at LGFWatch and another blog I created to mock anti-Muslim blogs along with a Muslim friend from Egypt.
Rioting is still going too far IMHO, & this video is more biased against Muslims than I'd like, but I plan to change the description. I try to atone at my blog for my past writings as well.
Mohamad--little space here to explain, I just want to reiterate that my blog is an open forum as well as where there are numerous posts on my return to my previous stance that Islam is not evil at all. I really believed charlatans like Spencer, Ibn Warraq, etc. for a time and am very ashamed to have aided in the spread of bigotry against Muslims in the world.
This video remains only because protests are OK to me--threats and rioting are just not, but Muslims I know agree on that point.
dont worry muhammed, when u muslims die u go to heaven dont u? so if thats the case, we're being friendly and speeding up the process!!! Lets face it...if the west had more balls in it, everytime muslims made a threat like "Islam will destroy the west" or made an insideous attack (Eg 9/11 or london bombings) we(the west) will simply blow the crap out of ur countries...seems fair doesnt it?
pimsghost, every 400 years or so Islam satanically erupts on the screen of history like so many cockroaches. Then God cleans the world of them. We're just more technologically advanced, this time, so the event is easily recorded. Window of this kind of thing runs about 120 years, so this one will close what -- in about two more generations.
I just found this and I also thank you, I can see the posts from the members of this faith of peace and love and I know in my Christian heart they want to rape me and then behead me. allah is not God.
So whats the point of movie..show all muslims are bad? its a religion,you wouldn't understand..so why would some one draw mohammed its not right,why didn't they leave islam alone...DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO DO WITH ARABS?..how did it start,so people say islam is a lie,but why don't you do something good for yourself for real..i mean come on this is stupid,and im stupid for putting this comment lol
Al3--no, to show that the percentage of extremists has to be dealt with. By everyone. I'm not as militant as I was when I made this, OK? But it still proves a point. I am currently researching the "Bible Christian" movement here in the U.S., which is another % of another religion that is otherwise filled with decent people. Just not enough to make a video yet.
As a muslim myself, I understand the offensive remarks made by the small comic threads. But you do know, in all religions, in all societies, will have black sheep, who will lead the rest to a path of stupidity. No need to reflect hate with hate, maturity isn't measured by that. And no, we do NOT kill "unbelievers", we respect their religion, and only offer them a choice. A no is a no, and respected.
So was a choice offered to the south koreans recently when a gun was pointed at their heads and they were ordered to accept Islam? Is that the choice? Maybe you can read up on Mughal history and note the EXACT same "choice" was offered then...dickhead.
Either way, no religion is ever perfect. Protestants and Catholics used to kill each other, for example. Learn about a religion before you say anything about it. There are idiots out there who are spreading it the wrong way, their way. Not the real way. Now how about you spend more time getting milk from your mom's teat before you go out into the open world, kid?
Excellent video; thank you for putting your time into it. There should be more people like you, willing to do their bit to protect the freedom of us all.
Islam really is a peaceful religion. So is christianity and judaism. Don't confuse religion with politics (which can be hard, since religion can be a powerful tool for manipulating people for political purposes.)
I agree with the reactions to cartoons were way over proportions. However, I think that a point that a lot people miss is that in reality it has little to do with the cartoons and more with the tense politicial situtation in the world, with large portions of the arabic/muslim world feeling trampled by the west, and religious and political leaders using the cartoons to unite people behind their causes.
The fundamental Lefty argument is that all religions are the same and therefore all produce the same philosophies and reactions. This is like saying that all cars have four wheels, therefore there is no difference between a Hummer and a Prius. Or that Platonism is the same as Existentialism. This means simply that the very basis of the "all religions are the same, all are bad" is logically and philosophically flawed from the outset. Amusing coming from people preaching "rationality."
I am saying they all share the same trait, irrational belief. And that even when used outside of religion is bad (again using the definition of the video). See racism, nationalism, etc. When beliefs are grounded in reason and rationality, they can essentially be anything at all.
Quite right, Hitler, Spencer, Lenin, etc. proved that rationality has been used more often to justify the murder of million, Social Darwinism, and an array of other crimes against humanity. Mao's Cultural Revolution was rooted in the "rational" belief that China needed a great industrial leap forward even if it met the deaths of 40-60 million people. The claim of religion being irrational stems of an ethnocentric, postmodern, hyper-Western viewpoint. In other words, it's the mark of a bigot.
Rational deduction is based on observation. The observation is simple. With the exception of evangelicals, the vast majority of Christians, Buddhists, and many secularists denounce killing unless absolutely necessary (though there is no rational proof that doing so benefits the society). So it has been for the last 100 years. Islam does quite the opposite. The "rational" thing to do would be follow the practices of Mao, a good atheist, and kill the threat even if innocents die.
With the exception of evangelicals? How are we excepting them? How about this, with the exception of the radical branches of islam, the vast majority of muslism denounce killing unless absolutely necessary. Same thing again. You appear still to be attacking a culture, not a religion. Evangelicals follow the bible more literally than any other branches, but you except them. How ridiculous your double standard is.
Evangelical follow the same premise as Muslims, namely that the text is the final word on all theology rather than a component. Augustine is hated by evangelicals on the basis that he derives theological maxims from Platonic systems of deduction. Like Muslims, they derive positions from literal translation. The Koran explicitly states to do so. The Bible does not. My point is that evangelicals misread basic Christain theology. Muslims simply do away with interpretation.
Ireland is an anomaly and Christian sectarianism serves the purpose of defining territorial and cultural claims. Further, the vast majority of Christians reject the violence as being contrary to the teachings of Christ. Muslim terrorists are celebrated or condoned by the majority of Muslims. Their jihad is global, not sectarian. Even the head of CAIR says he hopes to see the Koran as the central point of reference for law in the US one day.
But here is the end of the argument, I hope. Islam is no bigger a problem than Christianity. It is the culture that surrounds each of them that appears to make the difference. You can see people on both sides (evangelicals) who do things that we call bad (whatever that is). Even if you are able to show muslims in greater number, that still does not show an inherent causal link, therefore rendering any proof at the very best coincidental. And your last word.
There is a disticnt causal link. Islam's theology is fundamentally supportive of murder. Those Muslims who disagree are the oddities. Christian theology distinguishes killing in the name of God as wrong, a moral low ground. Those Christians who disagree are oddities. These are simply fundamental differences b/w Islam and all other modern religions. Denying the link is to deny the evidence, the writings, and the history.
Theology is completely inapplicable by the way. The bible says it. Just because some scholars of the bible who we wish to call theologists decided that we shouldn't do it doesn't make expunge it from the infallible word of god. Theology and culture are essentially the same for this argument as both involve the application not the actual religion.
First, the word theologist is a reference to secular, not religious scholars -- look up the root word and associated suffixes. The Bible, unlike the Koran, does not claim to be the final word. The same can be said for the I-Ching, the Vedas, or the Lotius sutra. Theology has been a cornerstone of all these religions. Not so in Islam. Regardless, I would agree that culture and religion are inherrantly linked. Anyone claiming the opposite is an idiot. Your argument assumes a binary world.
My position is not that all Muslims are bad, it is this. Doctrine not only condones buyt calls for killing Kafirs and Infidels. Christian doctrine does not. The majority of Muslims turn a blind eye to or celebrate terrorists, Christains do not. Rationally, one would follow the J.S. Mill approach and remove that threat to oneslef even at the cost of the other.
It is necessary if the choice is to understand something in its full depth. Anything short of that is an intellectual cop out and sign of limited range. Don't attribute your summaries to brilliance, but a lack of substance.
It is not necessary. Your long replies are condescending or masturbatory in nature. You go on to explain concepts that I already understand. A simple application of them is all that is necessary, not an explanation as if you are teaching me something new.
That's precisely what my students would say in defense of poor test scores. I have absolutely no proof you understand anything. Indeed, your writing clearly demonstrates you know very little about Islam, Christianity, history, the essentials of logic (in the classical sense), or inductive reasoning.
Considering what I wrote took about 5 minutes, you should be able to read it in as much time. SImply put, if you intend to put forward a debate, then expect full responses. Anything short of that and you are simply spouting selective issues meant to bolster an opinion, not the expansion of knowledge. The is nothing more dangerous than an idiot with access to a little bit of information.
Well either way, theology as far as this debate has the same affect as culture and so the debate has ended. It isn't the religion, it is the circumstances surrounding it and how it is being applied. Therefore the attack on islam falls. That you aren't killing gays, doesn't make god's wish for you to do so stop existing. Your attack is on culture and theology, not on the religion itself.
It falls only in the sense that you are incapable or unwilling to see the situation in a state of complex interactions rather that a simple set of linear, disassociated proposition. Western culture creates and reflects Christianity and posits that murder is wrong. Islam does the opposite. And you still have yet to address the fact that more people have been killed under the name of rational atheism than in the name of religion in the last 200 years.
Using things like nationalism and racial superiority is not rational. I do see things as complex interactions. It is you who are trying to simplify this into islam is bad instead of the radical culture surrounding it is bad. Christianity posits that you should kill gays. Western culture clearly does not represent that, therefore it does not reflect christianity. It reflects a secular ethics for the most part where religion is a traditional ritualistic carry over.
My claim is simply that the culture fosters radicalism even as it is an expression of the violence promoted by the Koran and those who preach it. Christianity does not posit that you should kill gays. In fact, most Christian theology debates whether it is wrong (most demoninations state otherwise). Those that consider it a sin do not endorce killing. Pick up a Catechism. Modern law is based on Canon Law. Rational induction is an outgrowth of Aquinas. Hume drew directly from Pius V.
Nationalism and the development of the proletariat were both rooted purely in rationalist arguments (see Trotsky's early writings). Social Darwinism and eugenics were rooted in the same (see Spencer's writings). 19th century anarchism is squarely in the camp of atheistic nationalism and promoted killing as a means of shaking things up.
Fair enough. You think my writing masturbatory, I think you synopsis the mark of an idiot with access to technology, a man with a cursory understanding based on the half-truths found on the internet and a handful of undergraduate classes. Certainly not the whit and preponderance of intellect espoused. But then, I think this typical of most would-be postmodernist Lefties. There is no substance in reductionism.
You really love yourself a lot. Disagreement with you does not make me unintellectual, as much as you would wish that to be the sole criterion. You need to get off your pedestal a bit. Your students most love you.
Disagreement does not make you unintellectual, I agree. The inability to spot flaws in your own argument, claiming you have knowledge of something when clearly you don't, an presenting a painfully obtuse argument does, however, make you dogmatic and displays a lack of the rationalist approach to which you subscribe. You are no different than the people you oppose, you simply have a different point of worship.
Your ridiculousness and flat out misinterpretation of what I say and your insistence on completely irrelevant arguments make you unintellectual. You continue to make arguments about culture and theology which completely destroy your very basis but never seem to care. You attack things other than religion as the causes yet celebrate this video as being worthy of anything when its chief attack is on religion. I am done, this goes on forever and you simply repeat inane arguments.
Is that really the best you can do? Not once have you refuted anything. Not once have you explained anything. You have done nothing but ignore facts and spout dogma. Look, I really don't care what people like you think, you're essentially trivial at the end of the day (forgive me be arrogance), but claiming you're making a cogent argument and I am not when you yet to establish evidence or clear patterns of logic is idiotic.
My arguments are repeated because you seem unable or unwilling to address them. First the explanations are too lengthy (perhaps above your head, I don't know), then they are too short (synopsis is what you called for). So refute them point by point. Right now your argument follows the pattern used by most Lefties and most children. I don't believe you, I dissect your poitns and I am therfore stupid. Brilliant analysis on your part.
Additionally, it would stand to reason then by such logic that any army coming out of Japan would be by necessity define all of Shinto and Buddhist doctrine. Or that any army stemming from China is definitional of atheism. The members of that army are not in fact interchangeable with the dominant faiths. Islam does court death openly. The faith drives the formation of the killers rather than the killers being a byuproduct of misinterpreted faith.
Ah, the Inquisition. Over the course of the Inquisition's life the total number of those killed is about 8,000. Of those, three quarters took place in Spain during the reign and Ferdinand and were opposed by the Church (the documents stating such are readily abailable at the Librarie Nationale in Paris). THis isn't to say that the Inquisition wasn't bigoted and bad, but it the history doesn't actually fit the argument.
So much here, not enough room. First, the video would go better if it didn't sound like a high school pep talk. The "these colors don't run" school of motivation is comical at the best. I just have one thing to say though in response, Inquisition. Once you figure that out, come back to me about muslims burning flags and how terrible it is.
human--tired, dead argument. Old news. Anything that far out of the past that now is barred by modern laws cannot even compare to a MOVEMENT, and yes it is a movement, picking up steam, that spawns so much violence over "feeling insulted". As for tone, DEVO just makes me all happy. Sorry.
Suicide bombing is barred my modern laws but my point is that you are representing this as a new phenomenon. Religions have always been nutty. See Blood Libel. The problem is irrational belief and religions in general, not one religion. Since all religions are baseless except for their book, anything can be justified and so if you want this kind of thing to stop, stop allowing a situation where religion period exists.
Brilliant. And the modern athiest position will curb the human appitite for blood. I suppose that Mao and Stalin, both devoted athiest, don't factor into this reasoning. Nor does Pol Pot. Again, historical and analytical fallacies abound.
Brilliant. You don't listen to my argument again. You just format it to fit your prepared response. Irrational belief itself is the problem which includes religion. Nationalist, racial superiority are irrational beliefs to cover your nonsense above.
I am a human and have no appetite for blood but I will be very happy to accept an argument that we as humans are innately blood thirsty. Because if that is the case your entire argument about Islam falls because the appetite for blood is inherent in humans not a religion. You may want to rethink using a rebuttal that, while if true sufficiently responds to an argument, also destroys the entire basis of your own.
Hardly. Going back to Socrates, Virgil, and Plato (not writing about religion) there was a recognition of the animal nature of humanity. Kant and Kierkegaard did so more recently. Socrates followed the realization with the comment, "Better a man dissatisfied than a pig satisfied." If humans are indeed different than other animals it is through our ability to transcend the base animal nature of what we are. You've presented a binary position with no room for expansion.
I could care less if it's bad. The points are this: 1) Islam, Buddhism, Christianity are not in fact the same thing and do not propose the same world views. This is a reductionist argument. 2) Islam is a threat to people who don't follow it. If it is a threat, the threatened society has every right to protect itself. To quote everyone's favorite Muslim, Malcolm X, "I will protect myself by any means necessary." Nits grow into lice.
You have constructed an argument based on a historical, philosophical fallacy. It is like saying that because you got sick eating oysters that all shellfish are bad. The real argument would be oysters aren't safe unless cooked. You've done the same with religion while elevating atheism to the same status as faith even as you deride religion on the grounds that it doesn't conform to your worldview. So much for cultural relativism.
I am not arguing cultural relativism at all. I am saying flat out that irrational belief is bad (assuming we define bad in the same way this video does). And that all irrational belief is the same. You by showing flaws in my christian argument only poke holes in your own because my point in positing the christian argument is to show the fallacy you are using when analyzing Islam.
Again, you have couched the argument in absolutist and positivist terms, not admitting that the "irrational" argument is founded on post-Industrialization philosophies. It is a set of postulates born of a singluar (and extremely Western) ontology. In other words, you have concluded religion is irrational but do not back this up.
It is irrational. Now if you wish to say that rationality is garbage, then fine but that doesn't disprove my point. To believe in something on faith is irrational by definition. You can justify anything at the point where you use faith as the basis. See flying spaghetti monster or any other. Since you can justify anything, to make a decision that one thing or god is the right one makes no sense and is irrational.
How we define rationality is an outgrowth of a specific cultural milieu. The assumption being made is that the culturally situated meaning is the final definition of truth, which means that what you call rational is rooted in one epistemological trajectory. It isn't bunk, but it isn't truth.. How you define it is little different than faith. That being said, Descartes, Newton, Lewis all applied "rationality" in their "proofs" of God.
There is an a priori notion that faith equals irrationality and a lack of theoretical discourse, but there is no proof. Christianity is a product of the culture and historical circumstances in which it developed, specifically Aristotelian philosophy, the Enlightenment, humanism, and a deep belief in the idea of a knowable god. Islam does not stem from this tradition and its religious text calls for blind obedience.
Enlightenment, humanism are not christian. They are outside of christianity and were in fact developed in response to the dark age christian domination. You again drop your burden in showing islam as being problematic. You show that the culture of some muslims is problematic but not islam. I can do the same, see the God hates fags crowd. The video above should say, terrorists hurt people, islam is an arbitrary coincidence. See ireland also for more stuff.
Wrong. Both stem from developments both in scientific method and teachings of the Church. Crack a history book. Furthermore, your assumption is that the two, secular reasoning and Christianity, developed in binary opposition when history and cultural theroy clearly demonstrate the opposite. And again, where Christian theology rejects violence as a basic tenet, Islam embrasses and advocates for it.
The vary premise of the argument is founded on false reasoning -- more ssomokers have auto wrecks, therefore smoking causes wrecks. The divisions and distinctions you impose on secular/christian are a byproduct of a postmeodern age and don't reflect the complexity and interaction that is a historical fact. Newton was a humanist and a rabidly devout Catholic as was Copernicus. Modern genetics started with a Jesuit priest.
The Enlightenment advocated reason as a means of establishing an authoritative system of aesthetics, ethics, government, and logic, allowing philosophers to obtain objective truth about the universe. This included an attempt to understand the mechanics of a universe created by God. The underlying supposition being that the universe in knowable and understanding it is the highest form of awakening and exegesis
George Berkeley attempted to demonstrate rationally the existence of a supreme being. So did Descartes. Piety and belief in this period were integral to the exploration of natural philosophy and ethics. Voltaire rejected the institutions, but not the underlying premise of God and the underlying divinity and moral teachings of Christ (though again, the Church was often rejected). History of Science 101.
he crux of the argument stems from this assumption that all religions are bad and that reason/atheism/hyper-rationalism will save the day. And yet you have yet to explain away Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Spencer, Pol Pot, Trotsky, Che, or Miller, all proponents of your exact position and some of greatest murderers in history. Statistically far greater than the Church or Islam combined. And their reasons were quite rational, beautifully so.
The only hope for humankind is to accept responsibility for our actions. We are encouraged NOT to do this. Therefore there is no hope as long as rule exists. As long as ppl oppose rule, the rulers will exert their influence all the more. The rulers must not be allowed to rule, we do this by NOT supporting them. Weak ppl support rulers, so we live in a weak world ruled by weak ppl. Tough on us who refuse to be weak.
You don't hear German ppl talking about how great the Spanish are. Nietzsche said it best, he made a brilliantly simple comment on mankind when he said "My neighbour is my neighbour's neighbour"...a deeply depressing indictment of humanity, it is our lot to hate one another & love only what we recognise or resemble. It is SELF LOVE, nothing more & will be the death of us, not before time our raping of this planet will end & the mistake of humankind disappear.
it has to be said that the average person outside of an islamic country really could not have cared less about islam or the treatment of ppl under islamic rule prior to 9/11...what does that say about those ppl? concern about iraq only surfaced once allied troops started emerging in coffins...the "concern" does seem to be rather one way, i dont think ppl are concerned about anyone but themselves frankly.
We Americans do not only care about ourselves, but each other as well. The sad fact about the Brits is that their once great country is slowly succumbing to the Islamist hordes, and most don't seem to care their own country and their way of life are dying a slow death. Thankfully, America is not Britain. And we do not submit our freedoms and our way of life just to accomodate Islamists.
Britain was "once great", many brits talk that way & you can bet they're refering to the EMPIRE, that wonderful institution that sought to enslave the world...where was THEIR freedom as Britannia cut a swathe through them? I reject islam, britain & america...I embrace only MY land, occupied solely by ME. I call it NOWHERE/EVERYWHERE, true freedom.
Britain is dying a slow death? really? Can't say I've noticed. The "hordes" certainly "seem" to have become more noticeable seem 9/11, thank BUSH for that. What IS sad is that you decry all opposition to neo con lunatics as "islamist" & cant see that Brits have a deeply suspicious, rebellious streak that smells BULLSHIT a mile away. We've lived with terrorism for decades, the USA has NOT. Do you think a bomb planted by a nut means shit to a Brit?! THINK AGAIN!
"Thankfully America is not Britain"...you took the words right outta my mouth!! Freedom to you means carrying a gun, something we will never stoop to regardless of our despicable history of murder & tyranny. What exactly is the difference between "islamist hordes" & european ones? America cares about America, Islam cares about Islam. In the end, NO ONE CARES.
Islam today, Communism yesterday...Niggers & Wetbacks everyday. Sorry but whatever some Islam nut decides to do cannot cancel out what Britain & America have done. You might think "it was all for the best" but the millions who suffered in the process beg to differ. Brits arent subject to the brainwashing by flag/anthem that Americans are, it's all bullshit...Islam,USA,Queen,Country,Race,Religion...BULLSHIT!!
cindy sheehan does not care about america...nor do you...you care about your own ass & your kids. the USA made no objection to invading iraq til it's kids wound up in bodybags, THEN it cared! Because it did not KNOW about the baby on the life support machine that died 1 day old because US sanctions made it so. Ppl do not care about ppl, they care about SOME ppl.
do you really think the ppl of iraq WANTED or CHOSE to be ruled by Saddam? did they have a choice? do ANY ppl have a choice? what did your gov. care when these ppl suffered? it aided & abetted Saddam! open your eyes! ALL politicians are corrupt,ALL power corrupt, your "freedom" is at the expense of millions of ppl living in poverty & misery. Enjoy your "freedom" while it lasts as last it will not.
your objection to islam is a selfish one, you see your "freedom" coming under attack yet you do not see the two thirds of the world's population who live in poverty as "not being free", Bush declares a "war on terror" yet refuses to declare war on hunger,disease,poverty,isolation,illiteracy,misery & all the REAL threats to humanity. The man is less than excerement. Wave a flag? I wouldn't use him to wipe my arse.
have you noticed how no one talks about Finland as being "great"? why is that? could it be that we JUDGE ourselves according to what we perceive to be "greatness"? what constitutes greatness? & what price greatness? If you had been born in a muslim country you'd be saying EXACTLY the same things, just about another country! "MY country is great" ( I AM GREAT! )
As you've not replied to my several replies, I wanted to ask in what respect is Britain dying a slow death? You have to explain that to me please. It's not enough to make statements, I'd like concrete examples of this death. Only then wil I begin in earnest on the construction of my underground bunker in my british back garden.
"We Americans do not only care about ourselves, but each other as well"...that's my point, you cannot see the contradiction can you? "ourselves & each other" but not "everyone else", I have no respect for the cindy sheehans who object to the "war" because US ppl are dying, nor for the muslims who object because their "brothers" are dying. I'm with those who object because PEOPLE are dying. Get the flag out of your ass.
Haven't we heard over and over that it's only a minority of Muslims that support the radical view? Some say 95 % are against it, some say it's 80 %, right here on YouTube. Now wait a minute: 5% - 20 % are *for* it? With a billion or more Muslims, that's a whopping 50 - 200 million. Simple math.
if we stop insulting one another and respect our beliefs, choices, and ideas like a civilized human being then we will get along well and the world will be better place to live... i hope i will live long enough to see those days... peace...
Why are the Qurans statements about Christ blasphemous? He was a mortal prophet who preached the worship of God alone and never claimed divinity. Theres many Christians who share this belief with Muslims (Unitarians, Jehovahs Witnesses).
Actually it does matter what Christians did, i dont want to say westerners because criticism of Islam is coming mostly from Christians. Feeling bad about killing millions isnt enough. I know theres a difference between Spainiards and other Europeans, theres also a big difference between AlQaeda and the rest of the Muslim world, I wish u could understand that.
allah's religions have never been the problem its mankind that forgets his purpose of being created which is to serve the creator by serving each other this is the simple message of all the messengers sent by allah and to stand strong together against wrongdoers islam is not the problem IGNORANCE IS.
we dont accept our prophet being mocked or insulted even if Christians accept Jesus being mocked. The purpose of debate is progress and understanding, i dont see how insulting religious figures can create debate or progress.
Chi--you are ADMITTING that there can be no debate, progress, etc. when you state that "we don't accept our prophet being mocked or insulted". Christians don't 'accept' anything either, we in the US just accept the right of others to do so and NOT respond like the freaks in this video. But you are stating again that Muslims won't put up with it. THAT is the problem. I'm not with JyllandsPosten, I didn't make the cartoons. Take that up with them.
LoL, pims your ignorance never ceases to amaze me, Islam doesnt insult any religions especially Judaism/Christianity, plus Muslims dont mock Jesus because we consider him a blessed prophet and messenger who called for the worship of God the Creator ONLY. Muslims dont mind hearing criticism as long as its done in a civilized manner.
Conquest and slaughter? Ahhh,... how about the Crusades pims? Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions? The killings of millions of Native Americans who wouldnt convert to Christianity? The Conquistadors?
That is a BIG lie. Muhammad lied and said that Allah (moon God) was the same God as Judaism/Christianity. And before you open your mouth and fall in, I study Islam, the Quran, Tafsir's and ahadith. And yes, demoting Jesus from God to a prophet (lower than Muhammad) is worse than mocking. Read a bible and find out where Muhammad got the Quran. "corrupted" scriptures eh? WHEN were they corrupted? Answer THAT
LoL, ur still using the moon god arguement? omg... Ok, Allah is the Arabic and Aramaic word for God. Arab Christians and Jews use the name 'Allah' when refering to God. I dont believe u studied the Quran or anything my friend, ur just copying and pasting from some anti islamic website.
The Quran didnt "demote" Christ, it just stated the truth about him, and it never said that Jesus was "lower" than Muhammed, if really read the Quran, then you would know that it states that Jesus and Muhammed are both prophets and brothers. The Bible is corrupted, Christian scholars say that the Bible contains 50000 errors, how can that be the word of God Almighty?
First, Christian's don't say the bible is the EXACT word of God; they believe it was written by humans and inspired by God. Second, read the definition of demote. The Bible says he was God in the flesh, the Quran says he wasn't. That is demoting him.
So then the Bible isnt Gods word, thats what u just said; anyways thats not our topic. Call it what u want, we Muslims believe he was a great prophet, not a god, its blasphemous to u, but its the truth to us...
I'm not a Christian so its not blasphemous to me. I have refuted your 50,000 errors in the bible claim. EVERY CHRISTIAN: chitownmuslim has Provided me evidence of these 'errors' using a JEHOVAH'S WITNESS Newsletter that says the KJV has errors and their NWT is the best. Please PM me if you'd like to read this 2 page newsletter and see the baseless claims! LOLOL
hahaha. I am informed to some extent, but not a Christian. If I were to point out errors in something I'd at least make sure I knew what I was talking about. You should learn about Christianity before parroting the same crap muslim claims.
Thirdly, present evidence of WHEN the bible was corrupted. I'd be very interested to see the evidence for this claim. Just because you claim I haven't read the Quran does not make it so. Provide your evidence for WHEN the bible was corrupted. Shall I hold my breath?
I just sent u the link to ur inbox, an article published by a Christian magazine that states the Bible is full of errors and contradictions, this isnt my claim, this is the claim of Christians...
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Point me to ONE CHRISTIAN that agrees that Jehovah's Witnesses are CHRISTIANS LOLOLOL. EVERYONE who wants to read the 'source' for the Bible errors claim, PM me and I will send you the link to the scans (2 short pages). Its a MISQUOTE from the article anyway, and muslims who think JW's are Christians are ignorant
But that's just it, chitownmuslim. The freedom of speech does not make a distinction between criticism and insults, because the Founding Fathers of my country realized that sometimes, criticism and insults are one in the same. That's why in America, it's legal to lampoon Islam. Just as it's legal here for Muslims to lampoon Jews.
Your right, freedom of speech doesnt make that distinction, but imagine if everyone just went around saying whatever they wanted, I could come to the front door of your house and insult every member of your family, but I dont for the sake of getting along and living peacefully, thats what I mean.
In America, we have to get things off our chest before we can resolve our conflicts. Burying bad feelings deep down as opposed to addressing them only delays the inevitable.
Most people who insult Muslmis don't do it merely for the sake of being mean. It's usually a manifestation of a deep-seated resentment that won't go away until it's addressed. As long as we don't address those issues, there will never be true peace. That's why free speech is vital.
Thats exactly what I mean, you can express your opinion towards Muslims actions and beliefs, thats all fair game, but insulting the central figure in a religion is worse than mean laviciousness, and does not create any kind of progress to any debate between the West and Islam. I understand that its your right under the first amendment to insult the Prophet, but what is the benefit it brings?
Sometimes, people need to rant and rave before they can kiss and make up. And sometimes, people are so angry that they can only express their legitimate outrage in the form of insults. The benefit you're asking about is that by allowing those people to speak without forcing them to be polite, you're giving them the opportunity to enter the national dialogue.
If the Muslim world wants dialogue with Americans, it should allow us to put everything on the table. No exceptions.
right...your "founding fathers" were free to "lampoon" whoever they pleased...and enslave,kill,rape,rob,destroy,etc. then "invent" "freedom" so as to ensure such criminality would be deemed acceptable to fututre generations who would regard any attack on "their freedoms" as "un american", long live "freedom" as defined by the oppressor!
It is a typical Islamist defense tactic to redirect blame and condemnation to obscure the wrongful acts of their fellow Muslims. The bottom line is that radical Islamists are the root of much of the evil that is perpetrated today. That's just how it is.
cept I'm not an islamist...just pointing out that muslims are not in fact solely to blame for the world's ills & the US (or any other country) is not blameless & there really is no "root" of any evil other than greed, common to ALL people. if it aint islam it's commies,reds,lefties,ruskies...but never the good ole USA or her allies. statisically, you are more likely to get struck by lightning than face a terrorist & the ills of islam predominantly affect....muslims!
Only an Islamist would be offended by the fact that Americans have a right to freedom of speech. Maltedm2 is clearly offended by that and hates us for it, so maltedm2 is clearly an Islamist in sheep's clothing.
No, I'm offended by your assumption that americans are RIGHT about EVERYTHING, whatever you do you'll find a way of legitamising it BECAUSE you're "american", you invented freedom...well, "freedom", "free speech" & "america" do not exist, just as "islam" does not exist, only PEOPLE exist & their ACTS, look at your country's acts, look in the mirror & THEN look at "islam". then look again at "humanity"...do you really think muslims invented murder?
Funny how adding "-ist" or "-ism" to a word conveys more menace than "-ian" or "-ity", how does "islamist" differ from "muslim"? do you refer to christians as "christianists"? or jews as "judaists"? No you don't, just as nobody coined the term "christofascist" to describe the tyranny perpetrated in the name of christanity. The world is actually comprised of more ppl than "islamists" & "everyone else". There are sheep on this comment board however. Sheep follow leaders.
People who cry Freedom of speech and then go on to abuse that freedom of speech,not by debating and proving they are right,but by insulting and abusing what others regard as sacred, make me SICK!!!
This is not an "abuse" of that freedom, but rather a manifestation of it. What detractors need to understand is that freedom of speech is freedom to disagree, even in a less than reverential manner. Islam is not immune from critical examination, no matter how many tantrums radical Islamists want to throw.
Your right Islam is not immune to critical examination, and trust me, Muslims more than anyone are ready and very willing to debate, but theres a big difference between critical examination and insulting others.
But that's just it, chitownmuslim. The freedom of speech does not make a distinction between criticism and insults, because the Founding Fathers of my country realized that sometimes, criticism and insults are one in the same. That's why in America, it's legal to lampoon Islam. Just as it's legal here for Muslims to lampoon Jews.
White males cause most of the rape here in the US, does that mean that all White males are a part of a "evil cult"? I think you and ur likes are the only problem Europe has winter, you have no respect, mercy, or compassion for others who dont share your beliefs.
One day they will have stretched our tolerance to the breaking point and then they will learn the true meaning of terror. Sadly I believe in my heart of hearts it will take an attack using weapons of mass destruction of a mind boggling proportion to bring it about.
In the meantime they are breeding like rabbits and the peaceful muslims will be called to Jihad (oh oops its only an inner struggle, right?) and we're gonna have one bloody mess on our hands. Down with 'useful idiots' like Prince Charles and Bush and all those ignoramus' that uphold the lie that Islam is peace!
weapons of mass destruction? where will you get such weapons? surely not from from a muslim country? no...from a "mind boggling" country such as your own (how sad)
Muslims are scary bastards. They must be expelled from europe. Europe is a civilised land (far too civilised for the primitive muslim) with christian values.
Europe is NOT civilised (unless you count burning ppl alive, women raped by animals & dismembered for entertainment civilised...(the "civilised" romans there)).Come to Christian Britain with its knifings,rapes,beatings,paedophilia,etc.,let alone its despicable history of despotism (we are ruled by a despot,Queen EII),then blame it ALL on the scary muslims. Go to Belfast,walk through cetain streets or ANY dodgy area in the UK,you WILL be scared (but not by muslims).
hanleyk, From a user that doen't own a video, and has nothing but cartoons, stupid pet tricks, and Sesame St. videos saved, the rest of us will take your comment with a grain of salt. What do You know about this topic? Certainly far less than pimsghost. She speaks for me, and a fast-growing number of Westerners who are concerned, and angered at the liberties Islamists have taken with our laws, and hospitality.
Wow these Muslims in britian are crazy. I mean I would expect some to do that in the middle east, but Britian, lol, what the hell? I still think the cartoons were hypocritcal though I mean they can't print cartoons of Jesus because they said they would offend christians, but they can print cartoons that offend others?
Yes, you'd expect them to become more civilised once they set foot in Britain...unfortunately I can tell you that Britain has the highest teen pregnancy/alcohol abuse/violent behaviour rate in Europe (read: one of the highest in the WORLD), & Eng,Scotland & Wales are per capita some of the most violent places on Earth, it also has more cctv cameras than anywhere else in Europe. Let's get this sipping tea & toasting crumpets image buried, Brits are violent,alcohol fuelled morons.
History will show us the folly of these idiots. Whatever happened to peace love and understanding?
I was branded as a racist by a friend when I spoke of my disgust with Islam. Why aren't more Muslims speaking out against their extremists? Fear of their own kind.... Yeah, I'm fearful too, but I'm an infidel so I should be scared. These people are nuts. Just look in their eyes...
Lamamel--gee, thanks! I'm learning. It's a step up from mocking girls on here to death in a bad wig I suppose. But never forget, "It's all about butts on YouTube!!! AHHHH!!!"
Shame on those who would deny freedom of expression, shame on those who would use these rights then decry them in the next breath. Shame on those who would use a few drawings as a defence of mob hatred, Shame on those who ignore the weeds in their garden, whilst pissing on their neighbours marigolds!
I think possibly the shame involving these cartoons should be directed elsewhere. Maybe, Ko7aWawa, you should be pointing your accusing finger at people who KILL and RIOT over these benign drawings.
To all who it may concern
Im disgusted by the incorrect view that this video shows of Islam. Islam is a Religion with a code of conduct. It focuses mainly on attaining good deeds.
'And he Allah created death and life so that he may test you, which of you is best in Good deed, he Allah is All-mighty, oft-forgiving.' Surat al Mulk verse 2
Mystickill1 3 years ago
@Mystickill1 Mystic, I actually left this up just because I think it is pretty funny. I also did go through a weird period there after 9/11 for which I'll forever atone. Violent protests & threats of terrorism are always out of bounds in these cases. I am sorry if you're offended, however, I meant to bash violent fundamentalists just as I do that same % of Christians. I have since these days started a spoof the Islamophobes blog with a dear friend who is a devout Muslim, govvs.blogspot.com....
LexeconKiddo 1 year ago
@Mystickill1 ....(cont.) If you want to see Pamela "Atlas Shrugs" photoshopped into Godzilla I photoshopped my little heart out for a while there then went on hiatus after the well funded LoonWatch (which I love) took over for our busy selves. And mystic, I'm actually beyond the pale these days. Of all things I'm of Christian descent Mikrasian (1/2), the Greek speaking folks from what became Turkey, but I LOVE Turks! And Ataturk. I'm the only Greek descended Kemalist I know of.
LexeconKiddo 1 year ago
FUCK ISLAM HAHAHA
MasterPervy123 3 years ago
yt8675309, When extremists of other religions act contrary to the "actual teaching" of their religion, others in that religion make it CLEAR, by protests and demonstrations, if necessary, that the extremists are acting outside their faith (They reign them in!). Not so with Islam. Tell us when, where and the size of ANY protests or demonstrations, ANYwhere, against ANY terrorist attacks, by Muslims, against non-Muslims. The silence of most Muslims is agreement. Worse, it's participation.
12ut5 3 years ago 4
well, fundamentalist christians bomb abortion clinics, how about that? beheadings, no, killing in the name of "god" yes. all of christiandom is not going to rise up and protest those protestors, because we have the government and police to deal with that. in the middle east, if there were those who went against those fundies there, THEY themselves would get beheaded. so its not agreement, its frikkin survival. as an aside, muslims in the states DO protest muslim fundies.
fishgul69 3 years ago
fishgul69, You're what could be called an enabler...someoe who makes excuses for the actions or lack of actions, the behavior, of others. The "gov...police deal with that" here 'cause the vast majority of people will not accept it. Don't say Muslims go against this kind of thing 'cause it's not enough and don't say they can't when they have no prob. saying something 'bout a teddy bear. Sorry, if they're silent it's 'cause they're moral cowards or just plain cowards, or, in a word, pathetic.
12ut5 3 years ago
. . .but islam is a religion of 'peace'. LMAO!
I guess the best way to PROVE izzzlam is peaceful is to kill anyone who says otherwize.
scienceguy22 3 years ago
ur showing this, do u want Muslims with flowers to thank the westerns for the cartoons they made about our prophet (P.B.U.H),
why dont u make some slide shows of the result after the invasion of iraq by americans the real terrorists, before the invasion every1 know iraq wasnt like that but thanx to u western people u brought blood shed and we do slaughter u like a chicken for invading and binging bloodshed to our country!
mohamadkourghi 4 years ago
mohamad--I made a difficult decision to leave this video on this account, which I left up as archives basically. I no longer will malign Islam, as you will see if you go to my blog. I now also co-blog at LGFWatch and another blog I created to mock anti-Muslim blogs along with a Muslim friend from Egypt.
Rioting is still going too far IMHO, & this video is more biased against Muslims than I'd like, but I plan to change the description. I try to atone at my blog for my past writings as well.
LexeconKiddo 3 years ago
Mohamad--little space here to explain, I just want to reiterate that my blog is an open forum as well as where there are numerous posts on my return to my previous stance that Islam is not evil at all. I really believed charlatans like Spencer, Ibn Warraq, etc. for a time and am very ashamed to have aided in the spread of bigotry against Muslims in the world.
This video remains only because protests are OK to me--threats and rioting are just not, but Muslims I know agree on that point.
Peace
LexeconKiddo 3 years ago
dont worry muhammed, when u muslims die u go to heaven dont u? so if thats the case, we're being friendly and speeding up the process!!! Lets face it...if the west had more balls in it, everytime muslims made a threat like "Islam will destroy the west" or made an insideous attack (Eg 9/11 or london bombings) we(the west) will simply blow the crap out of ur countries...seems fair doesnt it?
utumano 3 years ago
pimsghost, every 400 years or so Islam satanically erupts on the screen of history like so many cockroaches. Then God cleans the world of them. We're just more technologically advanced, this time, so the event is easily recorded. Window of this kind of thing runs about 120 years, so this one will close what -- in about two more generations.
brainouty 4 years ago
Don't you have anything better to do with your time? seems like your filled with lots of hate.....
hollandstella 4 years ago
I just found this and I also thank you, I can see the posts from the members of this faith of peace and love and I know in my Christian heart they want to rape me and then behead me. allah is not God.
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grateBrakenNose 4 years ago
LOL ! great comments !
roynexus6 4 years ago
So whats the point of movie..show all muslims are bad? its a religion,you wouldn't understand..so why would some one draw mohammed its not right,why didn't they leave islam alone...DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO DO WITH ARABS?..how did it start,so people say islam is a lie,but why don't you do something good for yourself for real..i mean come on this is stupid,and im stupid for putting this comment lol
al3zmi 4 years ago
Al3--no, to show that the percentage of extremists has to be dealt with. By everyone. I'm not as militant as I was when I made this, OK? But it still proves a point. I am currently researching the "Bible Christian" movement here in the U.S., which is another % of another religion that is otherwise filled with decent people. Just not enough to make a video yet.
pimsghost 4 years ago
im sorry,but its Waste of time..you could do something useful then making vids,
al3zmi 4 years ago
As a muslim myself, I understand the offensive remarks made by the small comic threads. But you do know, in all religions, in all societies, will have black sheep, who will lead the rest to a path of stupidity. No need to reflect hate with hate, maturity isn't measured by that. And no, we do NOT kill "unbelievers", we respect their religion, and only offer them a choice. A no is a no, and respected.
Shaftronics 4 years ago
So was a choice offered to the south koreans recently when a gun was pointed at their heads and they were ordered to accept Islam? Is that the choice? Maybe you can read up on Mughal history and note the EXACT same "choice" was offered then...dickhead.
doctorsingh 4 years ago
The heck are you talking about?
Either way, no religion is ever perfect. Protestants and Catholics used to kill each other, for example. Learn about a religion before you say anything about it. There are idiots out there who are spreading it the wrong way, their way. Not the real way. Now how about you spend more time getting milk from your mom's teat before you go out into the open world, kid?
Shaftronics 4 years ago
Excellent video; thank you for putting your time into it. There should be more people like you, willing to do their bit to protect the freedom of us all.
befeleme 4 years ago
Islam really is a peaceful religion. So is christianity and judaism. Don't confuse religion with politics (which can be hard, since religion can be a powerful tool for manipulating people for political purposes.)
apasvensson 4 years ago
I agree with the reactions to cartoons were way over proportions. However, I think that a point that a lot people miss is that in reality it has little to do with the cartoons and more with the tense politicial situtation in the world, with large portions of the arabic/muslim world feeling trampled by the west, and religious and political leaders using the cartoons to unite people behind their causes.
apasvensson 4 years ago
moderate & muslim are oxymorons
& muslims - well they are just morons period!
PetLadybug 4 years ago
Great video, I agree with it totally. No more tantrums. Maybe muslims can't draw as good cartoons, iono...
JezFTW 5 years ago
The fundamental Lefty argument is that all religions are the same and therefore all produce the same philosophies and reactions. This is like saying that all cars have four wheels, therefore there is no difference between a Hummer and a Prius. Or that Platonism is the same as Existentialism. This means simply that the very basis of the "all religions are the same, all are bad" is logically and philosophically flawed from the outset. Amusing coming from people preaching "rationality."
Hondo67 5 years ago
I am saying they all share the same trait, irrational belief. And that even when used outside of religion is bad (again using the definition of the video). See racism, nationalism, etc. When beliefs are grounded in reason and rationality, they can essentially be anything at all.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Quite right, Hitler, Spencer, Lenin, etc. proved that rationality has been used more often to justify the murder of million, Social Darwinism, and an array of other crimes against humanity. Mao's Cultural Revolution was rooted in the "rational" belief that China needed a great industrial leap forward even if it met the deaths of 40-60 million people. The claim of religion being irrational stems of an ethnocentric, postmodern, hyper-Western viewpoint. In other words, it's the mark of a bigot.
Hondo67 5 years ago
typo I meant to say when beliefs aren't
humanbruenig 5 years ago
I think that goes without saying.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Rational deduction is based on observation. The observation is simple. With the exception of evangelicals, the vast majority of Christians, Buddhists, and many secularists denounce killing unless absolutely necessary (though there is no rational proof that doing so benefits the society). So it has been for the last 100 years. Islam does quite the opposite. The "rational" thing to do would be follow the practices of Mao, a good atheist, and kill the threat even if innocents die.
Hondo67 5 years ago
With the exception of evangelicals? How are we excepting them? How about this, with the exception of the radical branches of islam, the vast majority of muslism denounce killing unless absolutely necessary. Same thing again. You appear still to be attacking a culture, not a religion. Evangelicals follow the bible more literally than any other branches, but you except them. How ridiculous your double standard is.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Evangelical follow the same premise as Muslims, namely that the text is the final word on all theology rather than a component. Augustine is hated by evangelicals on the basis that he derives theological maxims from Platonic systems of deduction. Like Muslims, they derive positions from literal translation. The Koran explicitly states to do so. The Bible does not. My point is that evangelicals misread basic Christain theology. Muslims simply do away with interpretation.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Ireland is an anomaly and Christian sectarianism serves the purpose of defining territorial and cultural claims. Further, the vast majority of Christians reject the violence as being contrary to the teachings of Christ. Muslim terrorists are celebrated or condoned by the majority of Muslims. Their jihad is global, not sectarian. Even the head of CAIR says he hopes to see the Koran as the central point of reference for law in the US one day.
Hondo67 5 years ago
But here is the end of the argument, I hope. Islam is no bigger a problem than Christianity. It is the culture that surrounds each of them that appears to make the difference. You can see people on both sides (evangelicals) who do things that we call bad (whatever that is). Even if you are able to show muslims in greater number, that still does not show an inherent causal link, therefore rendering any proof at the very best coincidental. And your last word.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
There is a disticnt causal link. Islam's theology is fundamentally supportive of murder. Those Muslims who disagree are the oddities. Christian theology distinguishes killing in the name of God as wrong, a moral low ground. Those Christians who disagree are oddities. These are simply fundamental differences b/w Islam and all other modern religions. Denying the link is to deny the evidence, the writings, and the history.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Theology is completely inapplicable by the way. The bible says it. Just because some scholars of the bible who we wish to call theologists decided that we shouldn't do it doesn't make expunge it from the infallible word of god. Theology and culture are essentially the same for this argument as both involve the application not the actual religion.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
First, the word theologist is a reference to secular, not religious scholars -- look up the root word and associated suffixes. The Bible, unlike the Koran, does not claim to be the final word. The same can be said for the I-Ching, the Vedas, or the Lotius sutra. Theology has been a cornerstone of all these religions. Not so in Islam. Regardless, I would agree that culture and religion are inherrantly linked. Anyone claiming the opposite is an idiot. Your argument assumes a binary world.
Hondo67 5 years ago
My position is not that all Muslims are bad, it is this. Doctrine not only condones buyt calls for killing Kafirs and Infidels. Christian doctrine does not. The majority of Muslims turn a blind eye to or celebrate terrorists, Christains do not. Rationally, one would follow the J.S. Mill approach and remove that threat to oneslef even at the cost of the other.
Hondo67 5 years ago
You need to learn how to summarize, I don't have time to read three posts every damn time. I could write that long, but it isn't necessary.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
It is necessary if the choice is to understand something in its full depth. Anything short of that is an intellectual cop out and sign of limited range. Don't attribute your summaries to brilliance, but a lack of substance.
Hondo67 5 years ago
It is not necessary. Your long replies are condescending or masturbatory in nature. You go on to explain concepts that I already understand. A simple application of them is all that is necessary, not an explanation as if you are teaching me something new.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
That's precisely what my students would say in defense of poor test scores. I have absolutely no proof you understand anything. Indeed, your writing clearly demonstrates you know very little about Islam, Christianity, history, the essentials of logic (in the classical sense), or inductive reasoning.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Considering what I wrote took about 5 minutes, you should be able to read it in as much time. SImply put, if you intend to put forward a debate, then expect full responses. Anything short of that and you are simply spouting selective issues meant to bolster an opinion, not the expansion of knowledge. The is nothing more dangerous than an idiot with access to a little bit of information.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Well either way, theology as far as this debate has the same affect as culture and so the debate has ended. It isn't the religion, it is the circumstances surrounding it and how it is being applied. Therefore the attack on islam falls. That you aren't killing gays, doesn't make god's wish for you to do so stop existing. Your attack is on culture and theology, not on the religion itself.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
It falls only in the sense that you are incapable or unwilling to see the situation in a state of complex interactions rather that a simple set of linear, disassociated proposition. Western culture creates and reflects Christianity and posits that murder is wrong. Islam does the opposite. And you still have yet to address the fact that more people have been killed under the name of rational atheism than in the name of religion in the last 200 years.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Using things like nationalism and racial superiority is not rational. I do see things as complex interactions. It is you who are trying to simplify this into islam is bad instead of the radical culture surrounding it is bad. Christianity posits that you should kill gays. Western culture clearly does not represent that, therefore it does not reflect christianity. It reflects a secular ethics for the most part where religion is a traditional ritualistic carry over.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
My claim is simply that the culture fosters radicalism even as it is an expression of the violence promoted by the Koran and those who preach it. Christianity does not posit that you should kill gays. In fact, most Christian theology debates whether it is wrong (most demoninations state otherwise). Those that consider it a sin do not endorce killing. Pick up a Catechism. Modern law is based on Canon Law. Rational induction is an outgrowth of Aquinas. Hume drew directly from Pius V.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Nationalism and the development of the proletariat were both rooted purely in rationalist arguments (see Trotsky's early writings). Social Darwinism and eugenics were rooted in the same (see Spencer's writings). 19th century anarchism is squarely in the camp of atheistic nationalism and promoted killing as a means of shaking things up.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Fair enough. You think my writing masturbatory, I think you synopsis the mark of an idiot with access to technology, a man with a cursory understanding based on the half-truths found on the internet and a handful of undergraduate classes. Certainly not the whit and preponderance of intellect espoused. But then, I think this typical of most would-be postmodernist Lefties. There is no substance in reductionism.
Hondo67 5 years ago
You really love yourself a lot. Disagreement with you does not make me unintellectual, as much as you would wish that to be the sole criterion. You need to get off your pedestal a bit. Your students most love you.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Disagreement does not make you unintellectual, I agree. The inability to spot flaws in your own argument, claiming you have knowledge of something when clearly you don't, an presenting a painfully obtuse argument does, however, make you dogmatic and displays a lack of the rationalist approach to which you subscribe. You are no different than the people you oppose, you simply have a different point of worship.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Your ridiculousness and flat out misinterpretation of what I say and your insistence on completely irrelevant arguments make you unintellectual. You continue to make arguments about culture and theology which completely destroy your very basis but never seem to care. You attack things other than religion as the causes yet celebrate this video as being worthy of anything when its chief attack is on religion. I am done, this goes on forever and you simply repeat inane arguments.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Is that really the best you can do? Not once have you refuted anything. Not once have you explained anything. You have done nothing but ignore facts and spout dogma. Look, I really don't care what people like you think, you're essentially trivial at the end of the day (forgive me be arrogance), but claiming you're making a cogent argument and I am not when you yet to establish evidence or clear patterns of logic is idiotic.
Hondo67 5 years ago
My arguments are repeated because you seem unable or unwilling to address them. First the explanations are too lengthy (perhaps above your head, I don't know), then they are too short (synopsis is what you called for). So refute them point by point. Right now your argument follows the pattern used by most Lefties and most children. I don't believe you, I dissect your poitns and I am therfore stupid. Brilliant analysis on your part.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Additionally, it would stand to reason then by such logic that any army coming out of Japan would be by necessity define all of Shinto and Buddhist doctrine. Or that any army stemming from China is definitional of atheism. The members of that army are not in fact interchangeable with the dominant faiths. Islam does court death openly. The faith drives the formation of the killers rather than the killers being a byuproduct of misinterpreted faith.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Misinterpreted faith, you said it all.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Ah, the Inquisition. Over the course of the Inquisition's life the total number of those killed is about 8,000. Of those, three quarters took place in Spain during the reign and Ferdinand and were opposed by the Church (the documents stating such are readily abailable at the Librarie Nationale in Paris). THis isn't to say that the Inquisition wasn't bigoted and bad, but it the history doesn't actually fit the argument.
Hondo67 5 years ago
So much here, not enough room. First, the video would go better if it didn't sound like a high school pep talk. The "these colors don't run" school of motivation is comical at the best. I just have one thing to say though in response, Inquisition. Once you figure that out, come back to me about muslims burning flags and how terrible it is.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
human--tired, dead argument. Old news. Anything that far out of the past that now is barred by modern laws cannot even compare to a MOVEMENT, and yes it is a movement, picking up steam, that spawns so much violence over "feeling insulted". As for tone, DEVO just makes me all happy. Sorry.
pimsghost 5 years ago
Suicide bombing is barred my modern laws but my point is that you are representing this as a new phenomenon. Religions have always been nutty. See Blood Libel. The problem is irrational belief and religions in general, not one religion. Since all religions are baseless except for their book, anything can be justified and so if you want this kind of thing to stop, stop allowing a situation where religion period exists.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Brilliant. And the modern athiest position will curb the human appitite for blood. I suppose that Mao and Stalin, both devoted athiest, don't factor into this reasoning. Nor does Pol Pot. Again, historical and analytical fallacies abound.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Brilliant. You don't listen to my argument again. You just format it to fit your prepared response. Irrational belief itself is the problem which includes religion. Nationalist, racial superiority are irrational beliefs to cover your nonsense above.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
I am a human and have no appetite for blood but I will be very happy to accept an argument that we as humans are innately blood thirsty. Because if that is the case your entire argument about Islam falls because the appetite for blood is inherent in humans not a religion. You may want to rethink using a rebuttal that, while if true sufficiently responds to an argument, also destroys the entire basis of your own.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Hardly. Going back to Socrates, Virgil, and Plato (not writing about religion) there was a recognition of the animal nature of humanity. Kant and Kierkegaard did so more recently. Socrates followed the realization with the comment, "Better a man dissatisfied than a pig satisfied." If humans are indeed different than other animals it is through our ability to transcend the base animal nature of what we are. You've presented a binary position with no room for expansion.
Hondo67 5 years ago
And again if you want to assert we are all innately blood thirsty, then you cannot draw a distinction and say islam is bad or has problems.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
I could care less if it's bad. The points are this: 1) Islam, Buddhism, Christianity are not in fact the same thing and do not propose the same world views. This is a reductionist argument. 2) Islam is a threat to people who don't follow it. If it is a threat, the threatened society has every right to protect itself. To quote everyone's favorite Muslim, Malcolm X, "I will protect myself by any means necessary." Nits grow into lice.
Hondo67 5 years ago
You have constructed an argument based on a historical, philosophical fallacy. It is like saying that because you got sick eating oysters that all shellfish are bad. The real argument would be oysters aren't safe unless cooked. You've done the same with religion while elevating atheism to the same status as faith even as you deride religion on the grounds that it doesn't conform to your worldview. So much for cultural relativism.
Hondo67 5 years ago
I am not arguing cultural relativism at all. I am saying flat out that irrational belief is bad (assuming we define bad in the same way this video does). And that all irrational belief is the same. You by showing flaws in my christian argument only poke holes in your own because my point in positing the christian argument is to show the fallacy you are using when analyzing Islam.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Again, you have couched the argument in absolutist and positivist terms, not admitting that the "irrational" argument is founded on post-Industrialization philosophies. It is a set of postulates born of a singluar (and extremely Western) ontology. In other words, you have concluded religion is irrational but do not back this up.
Hondo67 5 years ago
It is irrational. Now if you wish to say that rationality is garbage, then fine but that doesn't disprove my point. To believe in something on faith is irrational by definition. You can justify anything at the point where you use faith as the basis. See flying spaghetti monster or any other. Since you can justify anything, to make a decision that one thing or god is the right one makes no sense and is irrational.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
How we define rationality is an outgrowth of a specific cultural milieu. The assumption being made is that the culturally situated meaning is the final definition of truth, which means that what you call rational is rooted in one epistemological trajectory. It isn't bunk, but it isn't truth.. How you define it is little different than faith. That being said, Descartes, Newton, Lewis all applied "rationality" in their "proofs" of God.
Hondo67 5 years ago
There is an a priori notion that faith equals irrationality and a lack of theoretical discourse, but there is no proof. Christianity is a product of the culture and historical circumstances in which it developed, specifically Aristotelian philosophy, the Enlightenment, humanism, and a deep belief in the idea of a knowable god. Islam does not stem from this tradition and its religious text calls for blind obedience.
Hondo67 5 years ago
Enlightenment, humanism are not christian. They are outside of christianity and were in fact developed in response to the dark age christian domination. You again drop your burden in showing islam as being problematic. You show that the culture of some muslims is problematic but not islam. I can do the same, see the God hates fags crowd. The video above should say, terrorists hurt people, islam is an arbitrary coincidence. See ireland also for more stuff.
humanbruenig 5 years ago
Wrong. Both stem from developments both in scientific method and teachings of the Church. Crack a history book. Furthermore, your assumption is that the two, secular reasoning and Christianity, developed in binary opposition when history and cultural theroy clearly demonstrate the opposite. And again, where Christian theology rejects violence as a basic tenet, Islam embrasses and advocates for it.
Hondo67 5 years ago
The vary premise of the argument is founded on false reasoning -- more ssomokers have auto wrecks, therefore smoking causes wrecks. The divisions and distinctions you impose on secular/christian are a byproduct of a postmeodern age and don't reflect the complexity and interaction that is a historical fact. Newton was a humanist and a rabidly devout Catholic as was Copernicus. Modern genetics started with a Jesuit priest.
Hondo67 5 years ago
The Enlightenment advocated reason as a means of establishing an authoritative system of aesthetics, ethics, government, and logic, allowing philosophers to obtain objective truth about the universe. This included an attempt to understand the mechanics of a universe created by God. The underlying supposition being that the universe in knowable and understanding it is the highest form of awakening and exegesis
Hondo67 5 years ago
George Berkeley attempted to demonstrate rationally the existence of a supreme being. So did Descartes. Piety and belief in this period were integral to the exploration of natural philosophy and ethics. Voltaire rejected the institutions, but not the underlying premise of God and the underlying divinity and moral teachings of Christ (though again, the Church was often rejected). History of Science 101.
Hondo67 5 years ago
he crux of the argument stems from this assumption that all religions are bad and that reason/atheism/hyper-rationalism will save the day. And yet you have yet to explain away Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Spencer, Pol Pot, Trotsky, Che, or Miller, all proponents of your exact position and some of greatest murderers in history. Statistically far greater than the Church or Islam combined. And their reasons were quite rational, beautifully so.
Hondo67 5 years ago
"Well said"...also utterly untrue.
maltedm2 5 years ago
You're a moron. What percentage of Christians are KKK members and asshole fundamentalists? God. (No pun intended)
rsherck 5 years ago
The only hope for humankind is to accept responsibility for our actions. We are encouraged NOT to do this. Therefore there is no hope as long as rule exists. As long as ppl oppose rule, the rulers will exert their influence all the more. The rulers must not be allowed to rule, we do this by NOT supporting them. Weak ppl support rulers, so we live in a weak world ruled by weak ppl. Tough on us who refuse to be weak.
maltedm2 5 years ago
You don't hear German ppl talking about how great the Spanish are. Nietzsche said it best, he made a brilliantly simple comment on mankind when he said "My neighbour is my neighbour's neighbour"...a deeply depressing indictment of humanity, it is our lot to hate one another & love only what we recognise or resemble. It is SELF LOVE, nothing more & will be the death of us, not before time our raping of this planet will end & the mistake of humankind disappear.
maltedm2 5 years ago
it has to be said that the average person outside of an islamic country really could not have cared less about islam or the treatment of ppl under islamic rule prior to 9/11...what does that say about those ppl? concern about iraq only surfaced once allied troops started emerging in coffins...the "concern" does seem to be rather one way, i dont think ppl are concerned about anyone but themselves frankly.
maltedm2 5 years ago
We Americans do not only care about ourselves, but each other as well. The sad fact about the Brits is that their once great country is slowly succumbing to the Islamist hordes, and most don't seem to care their own country and their way of life are dying a slow death. Thankfully, America is not Britain. And we do not submit our freedoms and our way of life just to accomodate Islamists.
laviciousness 5 years ago
Britain was "once great", many brits talk that way & you can bet they're refering to the EMPIRE, that wonderful institution that sought to enslave the world...where was THEIR freedom as Britannia cut a swathe through them? I reject islam, britain & america...I embrace only MY land, occupied solely by ME. I call it NOWHERE/EVERYWHERE, true freedom.
maltedm2 5 years ago
Britain is dying a slow death? really? Can't say I've noticed. The "hordes" certainly "seem" to have become more noticeable seem 9/11, thank BUSH for that. What IS sad is that you decry all opposition to neo con lunatics as "islamist" & cant see that Brits have a deeply suspicious, rebellious streak that smells BULLSHIT a mile away. We've lived with terrorism for decades, the USA has NOT. Do you think a bomb planted by a nut means shit to a Brit?! THINK AGAIN!
maltedm2 5 years ago
"Thankfully America is not Britain"...you took the words right outta my mouth!! Freedom to you means carrying a gun, something we will never stoop to regardless of our despicable history of murder & tyranny. What exactly is the difference between "islamist hordes" & european ones? America cares about America, Islam cares about Islam. In the end, NO ONE CARES.
maltedm2 5 years ago
Islam today, Communism yesterday...Niggers & Wetbacks everyday. Sorry but whatever some Islam nut decides to do cannot cancel out what Britain & America have done. You might think "it was all for the best" but the millions who suffered in the process beg to differ. Brits arent subject to the brainwashing by flag/anthem that Americans are, it's all bullshit...Islam,USA,Queen,Country,Race,Religion...BULLSHIT!!
maltedm2 5 years ago
cindy sheehan does not care about america...nor do you...you care about your own ass & your kids. the USA made no objection to invading iraq til it's kids wound up in bodybags, THEN it cared! Because it did not KNOW about the baby on the life support machine that died 1 day old because US sanctions made it so. Ppl do not care about ppl, they care about SOME ppl.
maltedm2 5 years ago
do you really think the ppl of iraq WANTED or CHOSE to be ruled by Saddam? did they have a choice? do ANY ppl have a choice? what did your gov. care when these ppl suffered? it aided & abetted Saddam! open your eyes! ALL politicians are corrupt,ALL power corrupt, your "freedom" is at the expense of millions of ppl living in poverty & misery. Enjoy your "freedom" while it lasts as last it will not.
maltedm2 5 years ago
your objection to islam is a selfish one, you see your "freedom" coming under attack yet you do not see the two thirds of the world's population who live in poverty as "not being free", Bush declares a "war on terror" yet refuses to declare war on hunger,disease,poverty,isolation,illiteracy,misery & all the REAL threats to humanity. The man is less than excerement. Wave a flag? I wouldn't use him to wipe my arse.
maltedm2 5 years ago
have you noticed how no one talks about Finland as being "great"? why is that? could it be that we JUDGE ourselves according to what we perceive to be "greatness"? what constitutes greatness? & what price greatness? If you had been born in a muslim country you'd be saying EXACTLY the same things, just about another country! "MY country is great" ( I AM GREAT! )
maltedm2 5 years ago
As you've not replied to my several replies, I wanted to ask in what respect is Britain dying a slow death? You have to explain that to me please. It's not enough to make statements, I'd like concrete examples of this death. Only then wil I begin in earnest on the construction of my underground bunker in my british back garden.
maltedm2 5 years ago
"We Americans do not only care about ourselves, but each other as well"...that's my point, you cannot see the contradiction can you? "ourselves & each other" but not "everyone else", I have no respect for the cindy sheehans who object to the "war" because US ppl are dying, nor for the muslims who object because their "brothers" are dying. I'm with those who object because PEOPLE are dying. Get the flag out of your ass.
maltedm2 5 years ago
Least we kid ourselves.
The vast majority of muslins are against the west.
The we had it coming crowd, has IT coming.
The 7th century hasn't a prayer (rug and all) against the 21st!
Winky395 5 years ago
Haven't we heard over and over that it's only a minority of Muslims that support the radical view? Some say 95 % are against it, some say it's 80 %, right here on YouTube. Now wait a minute: 5% - 20 % are *for* it? With a billion or more Muslims, that's a whopping 50 - 200 million. Simple math.
Majik47 5 years ago
On the risk of repeatinn myself, Nathan Hale might have said "I regret I have but five stars to give to this video".
Majik47 5 years ago
if we stop insulting one another and respect our beliefs, choices, and ideas like a civilized human being then we will get along well and the world will be better place to live... i hope i will live long enough to see those days... peace...
oz83 5 years ago
Why are the Qurans statements about Christ blasphemous? He was a mortal prophet who preached the worship of God alone and never claimed divinity. Theres many Christians who share this belief with Muslims (Unitarians, Jehovahs Witnesses).
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
Actually it does matter what Christians did, i dont want to say westerners because criticism of Islam is coming mostly from Christians. Feeling bad about killing millions isnt enough. I know theres a difference between Spainiards and other Europeans, theres also a big difference between AlQaeda and the rest of the Muslim world, I wish u could understand that.
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
allah's religions have never been the problem its mankind that forgets his purpose of being created which is to serve the creator by serving each other this is the simple message of all the messengers sent by allah and to stand strong together against wrongdoers islam is not the problem IGNORANCE IS.
kinanz80 5 years ago
kinanz--well, I expect that God will have a lot to say to all of us when we receive His Judgment.
pimsghost 5 years ago
we dont accept our prophet being mocked or insulted even if Christians accept Jesus being mocked. The purpose of debate is progress and understanding, i dont see how insulting religious figures can create debate or progress.
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
Chi--you are ADMITTING that there can be no debate, progress, etc. when you state that "we don't accept our prophet being mocked or insulted". Christians don't 'accept' anything either, we in the US just accept the right of others to do so and NOT respond like the freaks in this video. But you are stating again that Muslims won't put up with it. THAT is the problem. I'm not with JyllandsPosten, I didn't make the cartoons. Take that up with them.
pimsghost 5 years ago
LoL, pims your ignorance never ceases to amaze me, Islam doesnt insult any religions especially Judaism/Christianity, plus Muslims dont mock Jesus because we consider him a blessed prophet and messenger who called for the worship of God the Creator ONLY. Muslims dont mind hearing criticism as long as its done in a civilized manner.
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
Conquest and slaughter? Ahhh,... how about the Crusades pims? Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions? The killings of millions of Native Americans who wouldnt convert to Christianity? The Conquistadors?
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
That is a BIG lie. Muhammad lied and said that Allah (moon God) was the same God as Judaism/Christianity. And before you open your mouth and fall in, I study Islam, the Quran, Tafsir's and ahadith. And yes, demoting Jesus from God to a prophet (lower than Muhammad) is worse than mocking. Read a bible and find out where Muhammad got the Quran. "corrupted" scriptures eh? WHEN were they corrupted? Answer THAT
Sanitariumffi 5 years ago
LoL, ur still using the moon god arguement? omg... Ok, Allah is the Arabic and Aramaic word for God. Arab Christians and Jews use the name 'Allah' when refering to God. I dont believe u studied the Quran or anything my friend, ur just copying and pasting from some anti islamic website.
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
The Quran didnt "demote" Christ, it just stated the truth about him, and it never said that Jesus was "lower" than Muhammed, if really read the Quran, then you would know that it states that Jesus and Muhammed are both prophets and brothers. The Bible is corrupted, Christian scholars say that the Bible contains 50000 errors, how can that be the word of God Almighty?
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
First, Christian's don't say the bible is the EXACT word of God; they believe it was written by humans and inspired by God. Second, read the definition of demote. The Bible says he was God in the flesh, the Quran says he wasn't. That is demoting him.
Sanitariumffi 5 years ago
So then the Bible isnt Gods word, thats what u just said; anyways thats not our topic. Call it what u want, we Muslims believe he was a great prophet, not a god, its blasphemous to u, but its the truth to us...
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
I'm not a Christian so its not blasphemous to me. I have refuted your 50,000 errors in the bible claim. EVERY CHRISTIAN: chitownmuslim has Provided me evidence of these 'errors' using a JEHOVAH'S WITNESS Newsletter that says the KJV has errors and their NWT is the best. Please PM me if you'd like to read this 2 page newsletter and see the baseless claims! LOLOL
-Sani
Sanitariumffi 5 years ago
Theres plenty of videos on youtube with people showing the errors contained in the Bible, just look it up..
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
You definitely were a Christian a few posts ago when I said Jesus was a prophet..
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
hahaha. I am informed to some extent, but not a Christian. If I were to point out errors in something I'd at least make sure I knew what I was talking about. You should learn about Christianity before parroting the same crap muslim claims.
-Sani
Sanitariumffi 5 years ago
ok loser
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
Thirdly, present evidence of WHEN the bible was corrupted. I'd be very interested to see the evidence for this claim. Just because you claim I haven't read the Quran does not make it so. Provide your evidence for WHEN the bible was corrupted. Shall I hold my breath?
Sanitariumffi 5 years ago
I just sent u the link to ur inbox, an article published by a Christian magazine that states the Bible is full of errors and contradictions, this isnt my claim, this is the claim of Christians...
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Point me to ONE CHRISTIAN that agrees that Jehovah's Witnesses are CHRISTIANS LOLOLOL. EVERYONE who wants to read the 'source' for the Bible errors claim, PM me and I will send you the link to the scans (2 short pages). Its a MISQUOTE from the article anyway, and muslims who think JW's are Christians are ignorant
-Sani
Sanitariumffi 5 years ago
Islam IS an insult!
To civilized people everywhere.
You can lead a muslim to freedom
but you can't make him civilized.
Winky395 5 years ago
But that's just it, chitownmuslim. The freedom of speech does not make a distinction between criticism and insults, because the Founding Fathers of my country realized that sometimes, criticism and insults are one in the same. That's why in America, it's legal to lampoon Islam. Just as it's legal here for Muslims to lampoon Jews.
laviciousness 5 years ago
Your right, freedom of speech doesnt make that distinction, but imagine if everyone just went around saying whatever they wanted, I could come to the front door of your house and insult every member of your family, but I dont for the sake of getting along and living peacefully, thats what I mean.
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
In America, we have to get things off our chest before we can resolve our conflicts. Burying bad feelings deep down as opposed to addressing them only delays the inevitable.
Most people who insult Muslmis don't do it merely for the sake of being mean. It's usually a manifestation of a deep-seated resentment that won't go away until it's addressed. As long as we don't address those issues, there will never be true peace. That's why free speech is vital.
laviciousness 5 years ago
Thats exactly what I mean, you can express your opinion towards Muslims actions and beliefs, thats all fair game, but insulting the central figure in a religion is worse than mean laviciousness, and does not create any kind of progress to any debate between the West and Islam. I understand that its your right under the first amendment to insult the Prophet, but what is the benefit it brings?
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
Sometimes, people need to rant and rave before they can kiss and make up. And sometimes, people are so angry that they can only express their legitimate outrage in the form of insults. The benefit you're asking about is that by allowing those people to speak without forcing them to be polite, you're giving them the opportunity to enter the national dialogue.
If the Muslim world wants dialogue with Americans, it should allow us to put everything on the table. No exceptions.
laviciousness 5 years ago
right...your "founding fathers" were free to "lampoon" whoever they pleased...and enslave,kill,rape,rob,destroy,etc. then "invent" "freedom" so as to ensure such criminality would be deemed acceptable to fututre generations who would regard any attack on "their freedoms" as "un american", long live "freedom" as defined by the oppressor!
maltedm2 5 years ago
It is a typical Islamist defense tactic to redirect blame and condemnation to obscure the wrongful acts of their fellow Muslims. The bottom line is that radical Islamists are the root of much of the evil that is perpetrated today. That's just how it is.
laviciousness 5 years ago
cept I'm not an islamist...just pointing out that muslims are not in fact solely to blame for the world's ills & the US (or any other country) is not blameless & there really is no "root" of any evil other than greed, common to ALL people. if it aint islam it's commies,reds,lefties,ruskies...but never the good ole USA or her allies. statisically, you are more likely to get struck by lightning than face a terrorist & the ills of islam predominantly affect....muslims!
maltedm2 5 years ago
Only an Islamist would be offended by the fact that Americans have a right to freedom of speech. Maltedm2 is clearly offended by that and hates us for it, so maltedm2 is clearly an Islamist in sheep's clothing.
laviciousness 5 years ago
No, I'm offended by your assumption that americans are RIGHT about EVERYTHING, whatever you do you'll find a way of legitamising it BECAUSE you're "american", you invented freedom...well, "freedom", "free speech" & "america" do not exist, just as "islam" does not exist, only PEOPLE exist & their ACTS, look at your country's acts, look in the mirror & THEN look at "islam". then look again at "humanity"...do you really think muslims invented murder?
maltedm2 5 years ago
Funny how adding "-ist" or "-ism" to a word conveys more menace than "-ian" or "-ity", how does "islamist" differ from "muslim"? do you refer to christians as "christianists"? or jews as "judaists"? No you don't, just as nobody coined the term "christofascist" to describe the tyranny perpetrated in the name of christanity. The world is actually comprised of more ppl than "islamists" & "everyone else". There are sheep on this comment board however. Sheep follow leaders.
maltedm2 5 years ago
Of course the USA, their the " Good Guys" how can they be wrong..
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
People who cry Freedom of speech and then go on to abuse that freedom of speech,not by debating and proving they are right,but by insulting and abusing what others regard as sacred, make me SICK!!!
zaman27 5 years ago
This is not an "abuse" of that freedom, but rather a manifestation of it. What detractors need to understand is that freedom of speech is freedom to disagree, even in a less than reverential manner. Islam is not immune from critical examination, no matter how many tantrums radical Islamists want to throw.
laviciousness 5 years ago
Your right Islam is not immune to critical examination, and trust me, Muslims more than anyone are ready and very willing to debate, but theres a big difference between critical examination and insulting others.
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
But that's just it, chitownmuslim. The freedom of speech does not make a distinction between criticism and insults, because the Founding Fathers of my country realized that sometimes, criticism and insults are one in the same. That's why in America, it's legal to lampoon Islam. Just as it's legal here for Muslims to lampoon Jews.
laviciousness 5 years ago
I've seen lots of anti-Islamist videos lately. This one most closely echos my sentiments. Good job.
laviciousness 5 years ago
White males cause most of the rape here in the US, does that mean that all White males are a part of a "evil cult"? I think you and ur likes are the only problem Europe has winter, you have no respect, mercy, or compassion for others who dont share your beliefs.
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
One day they will have stretched our tolerance to the breaking point and then they will learn the true meaning of terror. Sadly I believe in my heart of hearts it will take an attack using weapons of mass destruction of a mind boggling proportion to bring it about.
Winky395 5 years ago
AGREE...maybe its to late for them to update their culture to the XXI century...they d better start from scratch XD
blast2003 5 years ago
In the meantime they are breeding like rabbits and the peaceful muslims will be called to Jihad (oh oops its only an inner struggle, right?) and we're gonna have one bloody mess on our hands. Down with 'useful idiots' like Prince Charles and Bush and all those ignoramus' that uphold the lie that Islam is peace!
Sanitariumffi 5 years ago
weapons of mass destruction? where will you get such weapons? surely not from from a muslim country? no...from a "mind boggling" country such as your own (how sad)
maltedm2 5 years ago
Heh, so true even the North Korean's bomb 'fizzled'.
An attack on American soil killing in the tens of thousands will get people up off their asses and straighten this out, or will it?!?
The first person to say we had it coming gets punched in the mouth!
Winky395 5 years ago
I regret I can't give six stars for this video.
Majik47 5 years ago
Love this quote: "Anyone who describes Islam as an intolerant religion encourages violence." (Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokeswoman).
What, me a bully? Insult! Take this, and this, and this! [bash slash kick smash]
Majik47 5 years ago
Muslims are scary bastards. They must be expelled from europe. Europe is a civilised land (far too civilised for the primitive muslim) with christian values.
michelangeli23 5 years ago
Europe is NOT civilised (unless you count burning ppl alive, women raped by animals & dismembered for entertainment civilised...(the "civilised" romans there)).Come to Christian Britain with its knifings,rapes,beatings,paedophilia,etc.,let alone its despicable history of despotism (we are ruled by a despot,Queen EII),then blame it ALL on the scary muslims. Go to Belfast,walk through cetain streets or ANY dodgy area in the UK,you WILL be scared (but not by muslims).
maltedm2 5 years ago
How evil is it Winter?
chitownmuslim 5 years ago
hanleyk, From a user that doen't own a video, and has nothing but cartoons, stupid pet tricks, and Sesame St. videos saved, the rest of us will take your comment with a grain of salt. What do You know about this topic? Certainly far less than pimsghost. She speaks for me, and a fast-growing number of Westerners who are concerned, and angered at the liberties Islamists have taken with our laws, and hospitality.
CHARLESMARTEL732 5 years ago
Wow these Muslims in britian are crazy. I mean I would expect some to do that in the middle east, but Britian, lol, what the hell? I still think the cartoons were hypocritcal though I mean they can't print cartoons of Jesus because they said they would offend christians, but they can print cartoons that offend others?
RedEye6 5 years ago
Yes, you'd expect them to become more civilised once they set foot in Britain...unfortunately I can tell you that Britain has the highest teen pregnancy/alcohol abuse/violent behaviour rate in Europe (read: one of the highest in the WORLD), & Eng,Scotland & Wales are per capita some of the most violent places on Earth, it also has more cctv cameras than anywhere else in Europe. Let's get this sipping tea & toasting crumpets image buried, Brits are violent,alcohol fuelled morons.
maltedm2 5 years ago
History will show us the folly of these idiots. Whatever happened to peace love and understanding?
I was branded as a racist by a friend when I spoke of my disgust with Islam. Why aren't more Muslims speaking out against their extremists? Fear of their own kind.... Yeah, I'm fearful too, but I'm an infidel so I should be scared. These people are nuts. Just look in their eyes...
acerooni 5 years ago
There's more with Pimsghost views than you think... your just blinded by the liberal media outlet... Pimsghost speaks for a lot of people who cannot.
cyraxkilawatt 5 years ago
Great piece! One of the best on YouTube
Lamamel 5 years ago
Lamamel--gee, thanks! I'm learning. It's a step up from mocking girls on here to death in a bad wig I suppose. But never forget, "It's all about butts on YouTube!!! AHHHH!!!"
pimsghost 5 years ago
From the looks of the video he's free to speak for me.
bobe71 5 years ago
Shame on those who would deny freedom of expression, shame on those who would use these rights then decry them in the next breath. Shame on those who would use a few drawings as a defence of mob hatred, Shame on those who ignore the weeds in their garden, whilst pissing on their neighbours marigolds!
DuctTapeMyFace 5 years ago
I think possibly the shame involving these cartoons should be directed elsewhere. Maybe, Ko7aWawa, you should be pointing your accusing finger at people who KILL and RIOT over these benign drawings.
DuctTapeMyFace 5 years ago
You should be ashamed of yourself for republishing the cartoons. Shame on you.
Ko7aWawa 5 years ago