Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu Kenjutsu Official Budokan Demonstration 2010

[DGHProductions]

This is really cool. Will students of Ninjutsu learn Kenjutsu?

[KendoWorld]

@DGHProductions I dont fully understand your question? I know of a lot of mixed arts that include both techniques which could fall under Ninjutsu as well as sword forms which could fall under Kenjutsu.

If you mean do most students of Ninjutsu do Kenjutsu, then I dont know enough to say. However a friend of mine from Sweeden who studies Ninjutsu also does Kendo.

Sorry if I didnt answer your question, dont hesitate to clarify.

Taylor Winter

Kendo World

[DGHProductions]

@KendoWorld Well yes all i wanted to know was if Kenjutsu is a part of Ninjutsu, or if they are two different things.

[KendoWorld]

@DGHProductions Oh I see ~ ! Sorry about the misunderstanding.

On the whole, yes they are two different things.

Thanks

[DGHProductions]

@KendoWorld Ok, thank you.

[kenninast]

@KendoWorld

That is like saying: "kenjutsu is something different than samurai arts".

Tōjutsu (older name for kenjutsu) is an important part of ninjutsu.

[KendoWorld]

@kenninast Hence the use of more ambiguous wording. :)

[DGHProductions]

@kenninast Good, that was the answer i was looking for.

[kenninast]

@DGHProductions

Yes it is. Togakure Ryū Ninjutsu has some rather interesting Tōjutsu gata.

[Kilroy0128]

@DGHProductions as I know Ninjutsu students naturally practice Kenjutsu for exapmle Katori Shinto Ryu. That is very useful if you have less space to use your swords. Otherwise if someone wants to be a martial artist it is very useful to practice any kind of Kenjutsu. They are beautiful and they have good impact on the mind and body either:)

[leicamaster]

@DGHProductions Not like this

[1986nesha]

@DGHProductions Yes, we do kenjutsu on our training. We practice with katana, tachi, shoto, also different types of weapons....

[kilooneeight]

@Antellus, this was how musashi taught it hundreds of years ago. Nothing was changed since the day musashi named his successor, that is why this belongs to Koryo meaning traditional. The Go Rin No Sho that you quoted from was it's battlefield application. in the dojo, the forms are practiced over and over again until it becomes muscle memory. the stiff forms that you are calling eventually become fluid and seamless in battle. ;)

[DarvakSondrath]

Of course, I understand I don't know enough to make claims as I have not yet learned that of their skill, yet I cant help but to see this as only a sport.

[DarvakSondrath]

Its really sad, I had wanted to learn kendo, but watching the video I saw many points where they could have defended but didnt because of the rules and structure of the sport... I want to learn practical Kenjutsu... If such a thing still exist.

[Kunstdesfechtens]

@DarvakSondrath Real kenjutsu is hard to find. Beware of anything that calls itself a "samurai school" or somesuch. A lot of schools don't advertise either... you will often have to make the effort to find them. But there's nothing "magical" about kenjutsu either. You could study Hungarian Military Sabre and learn a lot of the same stuff. Swordsmanship is universal... I study kenjutsu, battojutsu and German longsword... the similarities are very interesting.

[GodMikaboshi]

@Azurel777 Thought speed was the most efficient way to go about all forms of fighting. Of course not only that.

[GodMikaboshi]

Is it normally this slow?

[Azurel777]

@GodMikaboshi it's not about speed

[OOFUJISAN]

wich professor?

[Kunstdesfechtens]

Good kenjutsu can be hard to find. You are better off finding a _reputable_ sword school of ANY style and train hard. Kendo and Iaido are easy to find in most cities. Classical Fencing or a good European longsword school would be good too. Even Judo would be very helpful. I travelled overseas for kenjutsu training, which many people aren't willing/able to do. If you're serious about it, do your research and you'll find something.

[maxgunn555]

@Kunstdesfechtens search tenshinryu. he's halfway down from the kenjutsu seach anyway. his 3 part basics of kenjtusu should set u up properly .

[TheLastHylianTitan]

anyone here know where i can learn more about kenjutsu? or swordfighting in general?

[blackcerberus79]

@TheLastHylianTitan

Yep, check out nitoichiryu com

[nicostormUK]

@blackcerberus79 I wouldn't bother

[blackcerberus79]

@nicostormUK

Why is that? You know something better? It's the best practical information I have seen. But if you know something you think is better please tell me about them.

[nicostormUK]

@blackcerberus79 If you want to find out specifically about Hyoho Niten Ichi ryu, I would suggest looking on hyoho com, or nitenichiryu co uk, if you are interested in finding out about koryu kenjutsu in general, I'd suggest spending some time on ebudo com, or koryu com, and ultimately find a dojo and learn correctly!

[blackcerberus79]

@nicostormUK

You forgot to Move the Shadow before talking at me. Yes, I know personally two people from the "hyoho niten ichi ryu" and very high ranking people in Ittoryu and Tenshinryu have made fun of the style, saying that if Musashi saw what they were doing he would roll over in his grave. I also have met people from both ebudo and koryu.com and I was not impressed at all... not in a good way, anyway. I much prefer the information be useful here in 2011, anyway, like I did with you here.

[nicostormUK]

@blackcerberus79 Oh dear, here we go again, Im not going to waste my breath this time, have fun doing it your way, @TheLastHylianTitan, if you are interested in genuine kenjutsu, check out the links I mentioned, have fun all!

[blackcerberus79]

@nicostormUK

Yes, regurgitate the common answer of "go find someone" when someone is looking for information online, that's helpful. Then decide not to debate the point anymore because that's all you've got. you "have fun" too.

[blackcerberus79]

@blackcerberus79

You don't realize this but I know you, too, nico. You know me by an alias. And I won't be back to this, like you I'm bowing out. So to answer why I don't like some people like Toby, it's because I know him outside the dojo as well. Anyway I've clearly overstepped the proper bounds here by saying what I really think. Maybe I will make my own site so that I don't offend people on theirs'.

[nicostormUK]

@blackcerberus79 KNOW me? Really? Hardly surprising since I dont really go to lengths to hide, but I think know is a strong word! So because you know Toby outside the dojo, that automatically means that the rest of the people have nothing to offer in terms kenjutsu knowledge?

[nicostormUK]

@blackcerberus79 I regurgitated nothing, you gave your link, I gave, what I consider better ones, with the advice, if you truly want to learn kenjutsu, go and find a dojo, it is the ONLY way to learn properly, IMO. The reason I don't debate, is because I have much better things to do with my time than convince you, or the other user, that my way is best, you can make your own mind up. The dojo is calling!

[budokeisatsuka]

@blackcerberus79 hey Victor, or Michael, care to share who these high ranking people are? Strange that you are unimpressed by what are some of the most knowledgeable people, about koryu kenjutsu, on the web have to say. Im assuming this nitoryu blog is yours since you've been championing it around the place?

[blackcerberus79]

@budokeisatsuka

Yes I am Victor, no I don't know the person from that site, I found it from reading an article.

No, I'm not going to mention the names of those people. For one thing they pretend to like deshi of Niten to their faces, and only joke behind their backs-- so obviously it's not something my seniors said that I probably wasn't supposed to repeat.

I wasn't unimpressed by the "knowledge" of people like Toby and Hyaku, I was unimpressed with them as human beings.

[budokeisatsuka]

@blackcerberus79 If you are not prepared to name, names then STFU, don't use senior practitioners thoughts, if you are not prepared to back it up, I doubt you actually know any practitioners let alone senior one, which in the USA would suggest Relnick-sensei, maybe I should drop him a line. What exactly was it about Hyaku watkins and Toby that didn't impress you, maybe the fact that they went to the trouble of committing to learning properly?

[budokeisatsuka]

@blackcerberus79 Oh and if its not your site, then why are you claiming it to be your "homepage" on Mac's Korean Martial Arts Discussion Board?

[Antellus1]

I appreciate the style but here it is become ritualized, stylized instead of actual fighting. I understand that this is just a demo, but Musashi would have said, "I dislike the stiffness. In order to use the blade properly you mush become one with it. Be fluid, like water. There is no rigidity in my technique." Still, there is the basic rule not to take your eyes off your opponenent's honored here.

[Sypheara]

@Antellus1

If you think this is simply ritualised and stylized you are right, you are looking at kata. But the whole point of kata is to train muscle memory, so that you can replicate the same moves in a real fight without needing to actually think about what needs to go where.

This hyoho is actually quite fluid in the foot movements, and its not as anywhere near as rigid as most kata. Please practice it before commenting on youtube.

Regards.

[DarvakSondrath]

@Sypheara If so, as it surely is, than I am deeply mistaken, pardon my ignorance

[TokyoEgoist]

Love this style. It's simple but its philosophy/application is deep enough to achieve something in every aspect of our life.

[LotusDragon09]

Interesting how when I watch videos of western instructors teaching Japanese swordsmanship, it reminds me of a Hollywood movie. However, when I see a Japanese instructor teaching swordsmanship, I actually see Japanese swordsmanship. I try not to show disrespect, but it really makes me question the instructor's legitimacy when they do more shouting and sword on sword bashing than what they *should* be doing; cutting down your opponent as quickly as possible. McDojos really really bother me.

[Kunstdesfechtens]

@LotusDragon09 It depends where you train. There are Westerners with Menkyo Kaiden (full transmission) or equivalents in these arts. The race of the person has nothing to do with it. That would be like complaining if a Savate instructor wasn't French.

[LotusDragon09]

@Kunstdesfechtens Well, thats not entirely what I mean. Here in the US, there are so many bad instructors its not even funny.  Either they are teaching you a legitamate style but dont give a crap about your technique, or they read a few books and interprited it really badly. Ive seen videos of intructors basically teaching their students to bash their swords together like lightsabers and to go after the sword rather than the person. Real kenjutsu schools are rare in the US in my experience.

[Kunstdesfechtens]

@LotusDragon09 Oh absolutely. However, that situation is common in all martial arts instruction, but in weapons arts in particular. Few people understand armed combat enough to know the "real deal" when they see it and are easily fooled. Yes, real kenjutsu is hard to find. Iaido and Kendo, no problem. (con't)

[Kunstdesfechtens]

@Kunstdesfechtens FWIW, I like how you mention "going after the sword rather than the person". The medieval German manuals I study say the same thing: "Do not strike to the sword; instead go for the Blossen (openings)" -H.S. 3227a, ca. 1389.

[LotusDragon09]

@Kunstdesfechtens Wow, so even European swordsmanship discourages sword-sword strikes? Im sure there is some sword-sword contact because the fighting styles are very different, though certainly nowhere near lightsaber-like.I dont want keep blurting out info about European swordsmanship because I know extremely little. But with swordsmanship in general, im glad I have enough talent to figure out what looks real/will work and what doesnt/is just for show. I dont mean that to sound arrogant.

[Kunstdesfechtens]

@LotusDragon09 Well, there is a LOT of blade contact in Medieval styles, but it's not pointless "bashing". It's counter-cutting into the opponent. If his sword gets in the way, we get what was called a "bind", usually edge to flat. From there you react to the opponent's pressure (or lack thereof) and use that against him. When the blades are in contact, the better swordsman has the greatest advantage. See here: /watch?v=HC5FIyfI8TA

[The007Seby]

ce voce :)) are =))

[Taliaisfuckinghawt99]

is there a style based on the Tanto/Wakizaschi? i kno the daisho is katan/wakizashi but conceivably wouldn't that combo (Tanto/Wakizashi) work indoors better? or would you only use a wakizashi inside?

[LotusDragon09]

@Taliaisfuckinghawt99 I could be wrong, but daisho doesnt mean katana/wakizashi. Literally translated, it means "long, short". Not all samurai/ronin had a combination of a katana and wakizashi. Some used a tanto or otanto in place of a wakizashi. In fact, unless the wakizashi's handle is exclusively 1 handed, its incredibly difficult to fight with a two-handed sword while another one is on your waist. Ive tried it. So I can only assume they either carried a tanto or a short wakizashi.

[Kunstdesfechtens]

Who the hell clicked the "dislike" button?

[RichieRemix]

@Kunstdesfechtens

the guy looking for dragonball!

[k00lkane]

This is kata right?

[juanmanuelcoria79]

in some web pages says that there is 20 bo kata of ni ten ichi ryu, but i never see those before. Does anybody knows where ca i see them?

[MouseInTheField]

@juanmanuelcoria79

You need to practice inside the school and one day you are maybe taught the bo seiho. :)

[rottunpunk]

heyo

would you mind if i put a link to this on our dojo website?

cheers in advance

debz

[mikeymarshful]

i know this is a weird question to ask here, but is there any ryuha that teaches 2 sword style with both daitos? I'm just curious

[chucknorrispranks]

@mikeymarshful very unlikely, as people never historically carried two daito. You would carry a daito and a wakizashi and possibly a tanto also.

[mikeymarshful]

@chucknorrispranks hmm... ok thanks!

[streetbiker8]

@mikeymarshful It's not weird your just curious. And no, bc Samurai would carry the Katana and Wakazashi. Long and short. Never both long or both short. Bc it would be unbalance and techinique would fly out the window. But it would be a cool thing lol.

[tmsods]

las artes marciales japonesas con sufijo 'do' son versiones paquetiadas de las que tienen sufijo 'jutsu'

[Stethacanthus]

I had an instructor from Okinawa for a few years who taught me Niten Ichi Ryu. I am rudimentary at best, but it is a great style.

[MegaAntiMatter]

How would one be able to attend something like this?

[citizenzombie]

@MegaAntiMatter You buy a ticket.

[notneededanymore]

the first pair of ppl were better

[bokutoone]

MUSASHI spirit is alive !!! : ))

[FredDude27]

No (audible) kiai?

[skykid]

@FredDude27 In Kendo kiai in the form of targets is required, but Kenjutsu does not require kiai for demonstrations.

[innerpeach]

@BushiWaazup

Traditionally the teacher (or higher ranked) will be the uchidachi (the losing side) and the student (or the lower ranked) will the shidachi (the winner).

In many cases, the uchidachi is an aggressor and the shidachi has to respond to the incoming threat. Hence, a teacher would take up the role of uchidachi so to give students opportunity to practice the correct retaliatory actions and mindset.

[Lithiel]

FINALLY !!!!! I FOUND IT!!!! 2 SWORDS AT ONCE!!!! THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS!!!!! * bows in thanks to you*

[kosh1969]

Oh my God! Isobe Sensei looks like my brother!! Very disturbing!!!! lol

[twobitmage]

wow, I'm impressed by that two sword form where the shidachi attacks the hidari dou and he blocks it with the kodachi in the opposite hand. I think I'd get quite a few bruises if I tried that.

[Haphazy]

Heh. It's shidachi who's blocking the blow. But I get what you're saying. Hard.

[twobitmage]

...my bad. God, my brain is broken.

[HARMONICO101]

That's a kata I practice quite carefully. :)

[HARMONICO101]

Who is in the video?

[nicostormUK]

@HARMONICO101 The gentleman on the left is Iwami Toshio, 11th Soke of the school. Shidachi for the kodachi seiho was (I believe) Isobe-sensei and uchidachi for the nito seiho was Nagaoka-sensei

[HARMONICO101]

I recognized Iwami soke, but didn't know the others. Thanks.

[slurfje]

Thank you for a great recording of an excelent demonstration!

[linkyoo]

Ah it's been awhile you didn't post ! Good to see the newest techniques...