How Atheists Take Alexander Vilenkin (& the BVG Theorem) Out Of Context - William Lane Craig

[pbecke]

"With the proof now in place, cosmologists can long longer hide behind the possibility of a past eternal universe. There is no escape, they have to face the problem of a cosmic beginning."

Alexander Vilenkin - Many Worlds In One - Pg. 176

Unanswerable.

[Shadowlooker12]

I don't see why people take pride in being a traditional Atheist or Nihilist. In any fashion people don't realize what that implies. They may not beleive in the Christian God, but, in general when they say no god exist at ALL, they imply there is no rule setter and no absolute rule. This would suggest everything known is totally made up by us, which means there is no purpose to anything, right and wrong does not exist either, and feelings are abstract things we only describe and give name to.

[PeacefulHobbit]

@drcraigvideos Hello! Just for curiosity, do you know William Lane Craig personally?

[drcraigvideos]

@PeacefulHobbit Sort of. I'm in contact with him if that's what you mean.

[StygianDysnomia]

Dang... Caught in a quote mine. I like Mr. Millican as a philosopher, but wow, I can't believe he thought he'd get away with that one.

[thrik]

@StygianDysnomia to be fair, he probably trusted a bad source that cited that quote improperly. He seems to be a more honest and humble atheist than we see on average.

[Raxarax]

Ok, so the universe had some sort of a cause. This is not exactly breaking news. Next.

I say "We don't yet know what caused the universe."

You say "God did it."

I say "Oh ya? Well then what caused God?"

You say "Nothing, God always was."

I say "Well how come God can always be, and yet the universe (or creations of the universe, or multiverses into infinity) can not?"

You say "Because God is magic."

Yup, checkmate... you got me alright. Us atheists are such fools.

[drcraigvideos]

@Raxarax Actually you're just strawmaning. First of all, if you actually read the atheist literature you'd know they're desperately trying to say that the universe is infinite.

You say, "Ok, the universe began to exist, because blind and mindless and unintelligent and dead nature did it."

I say, "Wow, that sounds like magic."

You say "Oh, yeah, well, you theists believe in magic too!"

I say "Well, at least there's a magician. For you, there's no magician for magic."

Checkmate, indeed.

[Apologist4Christ973]

@drcraigvideos LOL... Thats just ART right there... Brilliant...

[Shadowlooker12]

@drcraigvideos hahaha nice 1.Reason their trying to say the universe is infinite because they think if they can prove it this means the universe can be infinite independent of a creator.It's pretty much their response to God being eternal. I often see Atheist say "you say God is eternal, well why can't matter or the universe be eternal" which is just another way of saying infinite. I'm seeing a rise in Nihilist though, people who don't really understand what they imply.

[ITTutorCanada]

@Raxarax rofl, you say "why can't the universe be infinite" and say... GEE KID, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A PICTURE OF THE DEEP COSMIC BACKGROUND RADIATION? I suggest if not, you look one up and begin to learn just WHAT it is and WHY it's there and WHAT that means. Tip to get your started: if we can count back through a finite series of events and reach the beginning of something... that something would be ______. One more tip: starts with F and ends with inite. CMON I BELIEVE IN YOU.

[Bigjon145]

Waiting for atheists to plug their ears and give the thumbs down in suppressing the truth in unrighteosness and confirming the Bible.

[matthewtaylorbrown]

It matters not, where we got the idea that the Universe had no beginning. It does not matter if the theorem was taken out of context. The concept now persists.

A perception of an expanding universe can be limited to a minute portion of the entire Universe. Other parts of the Universe could be contracting or have appearances of both contraction and expansion.

[drcraigvideos]

@matthewtaylorbrown *SIGH* You didn't watch the video,did you? If you did, you'd know that the contraction and expansion still falls under the BVG Theroem.

[chuckiej]

@matthewtaylorbrown Are you saying what we see as red shifting through our telescopes cannot be generalized to the rest of the universe? If so, science itself is utterly worthless because we can never examine every bit of matter to see if our theories hold.

[ninjaeim]

I thought it was funny how later in the debate Millican says "well, this is proving to be quite the challenge"

[ObscureDEG]

Dr. Craig drank from that glass like a champ.

[SunnyLovetts]

God is real. End of story.

[OWC2000]

We have known for decades the universe or some previous state of the universe had a beginning,,is this really in question? What is not known is whether the universe requires a 'cause' or what form this cause would take.

WLC arguments is since we do know we must assume god do it. Classic 'god of the gaps'.This debate does nothing to prove god exits, only that we do not know.how the universe came about.

[drcraigvideos]

@OWC2000 WLC doesn't use "god of the gaps" arguments, genius: watch?v=VOx6z9F0o1c. On the other hand, you use the "we know the universe has a cause but we don't know it's God but we'll say anybody who thinks it's God is using the 'god of the gaps'" argument. Typical.

[chuckiej]

@OWC2000 A logical argument shows that two or more premises lead to a conclusion. You can either question the premises (like the universe had a beginning) or whether or not a logical fallacy was used. WLC certainly believes that the premises are sound and no logical fallacies are used in the Kalam Cosmological Argument.

[Jesrael1986M]

@OWC2000 I'm getting fed up of atheists crying "God of the gaps" whenever they are faced with an argument they cannot answer.

[Birdieupon]

Nice to see how Millican was courteous enough to actually help at the laptop, to fix Craig's powerpoint, while being rebutted! You'd never see such gentlemanly academic behavior from Dawkins in a million years!

[pete26785]

@Birdieupon Millican is a gent, Dawkins is simply disturbed

[graceteam]

owned!:D kudos Dr. Craig!

[justcallmesolo]

Atheists do us a favorite and give up! 

[drcraigvideos]

@justcallmesolo Many atheists already have their minds made up.

[TruthWatch]

@drcraigvideos If you want to get them really angry. point out that any decision to believe or not believe is essentially an emotional one. The decision can be based upon experience, and supporting evidence of many kinds, but contains an emotional component that atheists in particular often refuse to acknowledge

[MaxxTheMerciless]

@drcraigvideos Frankly, I think that's okay. It only demonstrates that they don't want to believe that there even might be a God. They prefer a comfortable conceit rather than an uncomfortable belief that we all might (and should) be judged for who we are and what we've done during our time on this world.

[H0tkebab]

@justcallmesolo

You can't force anyone to give up anything, they have to do it on their own in their own time as they learn, discover and follow the evidence.

[HaShim383]

@justcallmesolo Has hell frozen over yet?

[drcraigvideos]

I know I already uploaded a video similar to this one. But since the footage of Craig and Millican came out I figure I should re-upload it... and with more stuff. It just cannot be stressed enough what incredible lengths some atheists will go to to prove the universe had no beginning... even if it means taking someone out of context!

[Gericho49]

@drcraigvideos Thanks DRC, another expose' of the half-truths & lies spread by the ill-informed as well as those who know better. There are in fact 9 multiverse theories detailed by Brian Green. Problem is they all contradict each other. Moreover, on what logical basis can it be assumed that the physical laws that define those universes should be different from ours? Even if they exist, we still have the logical absurdity of an infinite regression of such events & an eternal past!