Fully Charged | Renault Fluence ZE | episode 26

[neogastropoda1]

I would never buy a renault. my m8s megane's electronics that control the wipers broke down. he paid £300 to a mechanic to fix it.

the ECU broke on my corsa b, basically the computer that controls everything, it cost £120 to replace. the megane was 5 years old my corsa was 16.

i dont consider vauxhall to be super reliable but there ok but renault are complete garbage. he also had to service it every 4000 miles or it would stall when idling his dads was the same

[craigix]

The 'idiot' who runs out of electricity, and as Nissan said to me 'if you're stupid enough to run out of electricity' - They are obviously being told to speak like this by their PR people - however I've used the emergency call out as I was 'stupid' enough to trust the charging network and drove to a fast charger which didn't work and my experience with Nissan recovery was poor, maybe they need to revisit their attitude to this.

[toyotaprius79]

@craigix Did you really do that or did you make up the hole thing? That was very biased and unbelievable.

[douchebarge]

I'm loving the new format, Robert. It's been a great show so far and getting better.

Btw, for Americans used to SAE numbers that "22.6 people twisting a bar" is about 166 ft-lb.

Pretty respectable, though little enough compared to the White Zombie of PlasmaBoy Racing at over 1000 people twisting a bar. Not bad for a '72 Datsun electric. Nine out of ten Porsche owners agree:

"Nice taillights..."

[sparkygl0s]

The guy from Renault talks about battery rental at £75. Is that per month?

[HerrDalton]

@sparkygl0s 9.05 sounded like a year?

[sparkygl0s]

@HerrDalton

That sounds like a bargain, considering a replacement set of batteries would cost several thousand pounds.

[badskpr]

@mashux A real test that might be scary for the Europeans is the delivery of Indian Voices newspapers for 111 35 th Street San Diego California( See web site) to Santa Ysabel Casino with an accent of 3500 meters in 85 kilometers through mountain and high desert mesa with temperatures from 25 celsius to 45 celsius and wind velocity from zephyrs to gales. There might be still resentment from the last time renault was here and Chrysler corporation refused to carry the parts (settlement July 1993).

[badskpr]

I am putting in a Sanya Light Pump at the mesa Grande Indian Reservation California. using a vertical axis wind turbine and no grid connection. Test a Kangoo ZE out here to deliver newspaper " Indian Voices.

[timthemartin]

Thanks so much. Would love to see your review of 'better place' sometime

[DANATRINGWOOD]

can u imagine using electric cars in motorsports it will be so weird will be like watching it in mute lol it will happen one day

[ultimazer1]

@DANATRINGWOOD: especially high performance electric car actually do make noise, but it sounds more like a very quiet jet high wine jet turbine...I think it sounds cool :)

[DANATRINGWOOD]

@ultimazer1 touring cars will sound like the jetsons car lol

[gio70v]

The Italian National Research Center for the New Energies (ENEA) and the University of Bologna (Italy) have recently announced the discovery of a new type of battery, a liquid battery, called "ILHYPOS" based on Ionic Liquids, capable of driving a car hundred miles and that recharges in just 5 (FIVE) minutes !! European & American TVs have covered the news. See for example this on youtube: watch?v=rOlbzE1tAOA

[1997seanmac]

after seening the top gear with pegeuo ion and nissan leaf in it wanted to kill d tv ya electric cars run outa power just like a petrol car but we never see them been towd away on topgear!!

[eldictator1]

@1997seanmac Apparently in the times today Tg were given a fully charged leaf, the car was driven to about 60% capacity and then they made their trip

[1997seanmac]

@eldictator1 was it the same trip they made on the show?



[maljohns]

I'd like to hear more about the van! I work in construction, so small electric cars are no use to me - but an electric van is more like it......

[quwers]

@mashux Robert could just go to the cheese rolling hil, there is a narrow road there which is 25%.

[JRP3]

He's right about better efficiency from the vehicles through aerodynamics and lighter materials but he's quite wrong about the continuing improvements that are still happening in battery energy density. We have 300+ mile capable batteries right now, they just cost a bit too much for the average consumer. DBM Energy looks to be on track to solve that issue.

[R2BCH2]

MIT more notably announced the semi-solid flow battery technology. Very efficient and potentially relatively cheap. Projected market launch 2013. And even that is not the end of the story if more and more entities who do have the capital are willing to invest in R&D.

[000vortex]

Airborne aerial unmanned bulletproof combat drone of monitoring system.

[robferrer]

I'd love to think my next car would be an electric vehicle, but there are two issues:

1: While almost all my journeys are tiny, I'd still need to be able to do big journeys to (for example) see the in-laws 170 miles away. This means until range improves I'd need an PHEV or EREV, or a good battery drop system.

2: I need a bigger car. Currently drive a Grand Scenic and need the space to take our two girls and all their stuff, especially as we like to go camping, and like to go in luxury.

[jamesthemacman]

Did he get to drive the van?

[msyin9]

Great to see that you are going to cover more topics that are part of the bigger debate. The new format works though I think I liked the other music but it is not a make or break deal with your show since I keep coming back because of the content, that is why I subscribed. I would think some green company would be smart enough to back you, but your fan base is growing and so is the quality and quantity of info you provide. Please keep going.

[dpeilow]

MIT just announced more progress on Lithium-Air batteries. The energy density is enough to take a vehicle with a 500kg battery (like the Tesla Roadster) over 3000 miles on a charge.

[munteruk]

Nice work Robert. Thanks for including stats in the video. I'm also glad you've decided to look at the broader energy picture as this is inevitably intertwined with any move to electric vehicles.

[timaustin2000]

I think the fella was being a little pessimistic about advances in battery technology. Lithium Air batteries, as you mentioned, are getting to a considerable level of development. You WILL be seeing Li-Air batteries on the road by 2020 and they'll bring a good 200 mile range with them. Should you wait for them? Nah; get a leaf or an electric Focus. Heck, get a Zoe, they look fab!

[murwaz]

This is so intressting I'd like Top Gear to go all EV nerd crazy and just forget about all the ferrari's and zondas, I do love them, love all cars, but the thought of having a car that runs on more or less clean energy and still takes you where ever you wanna go and basicly like any car. Its just amazing. Who need a car that goes 196 mph in the real world, NONE, its stupid. Its as stupid as the way I am living right now, wich tbh is... in a way, that will kill me soon if I dont change.

[TheWalrusOfHate]

Like the idea of broadening the show; not keen on the new title music though.

The old music was funky, this sounds a bit sad...

[bonds911]

great i would love to learn more about renewable energy ,,, thanks robert... you won my respects...

[wlchase]

Nice looking car, and must say, the idea of "renting" the battery pack is quite clever!

[paytontech]

@mashux Google "Nissan Leaf Pikes Peak Climb."

[addictedtopiano]

love the new format, looks much more professional

[omolivera]

Nice turn! I like it. Keep it up.

[CCmachine]

CREATE ENERGY?

Physics 101. No. :P

[dpeilow]

No links allowed, so Google "renault 300 miles battery"

[dpeilow]

He says that it is a mistake to expect to see better batteries, yet Renault is as guilty of making these forecasts as anyone.

There are so many lab breakthroughs in battery technology now that if one of them doesn't get commercialised I'll eat my hat.

[DanFrederiksen]

itneresting that the batteries in the zoey and the fluence is not the same. if both are intended for better place that means they need to stock two types. that's a further complication. that's better place's achilles' heel. the forced standard. because you can't stock many different types each in plenty supply at all stations.

better place wont last but it can be a solution during transition.

[coddot]

iron your shirt, please

[SquareoftheyearFM]

What a bloody nice chap, very down to earth.

[kewydee]

Cant wait to see you take a spin in the VW XL1 - 313mpg. If its possible to squeeze that kind of mpg out of a concept hybrid car then a production version with 200 mpg must be easily achievable. Of course its still using oil products but it will help towards lowering consumption whilst the EV technology and infrastructure improves.

[cloggsy1971]

'How we create energy' Robert? Energy cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed; it it just converted from one form to another (or so my Physics teacher used to tell me...) I'm not sure I like the new format yet, but I'm sure it will grow on me - Keep up the great work!

[NeilBlanchard]

@cloggsy1971 Kinetic energy is better used to carry the car forward. Regen is less efficient, since there are losses in the generation. These two limit the weight penalty by recovering some of the energy "invested" with the accelerator.

Aerodynamic losses are total -- they cannot be recovered at all. And aero losses completely swamp all the other losses -- like 75-80% at ~65mph.

Neil

[matt3360]

The old theme tune made it better im afraid to say

[billdale1]

It used to be that the announcement of a new production EV was exciting-- that's worn off quite a bit, since nearly every maker has an EV now... EVs will continue to absorb market share, until one day the introduction of a "new" smogger will be seen as nothing more than pointless, nostalgic retro for the old folk.

[rodrivalle]

Nice new format, and adding "energy" as a main focus of the show is really great, it is maybe even a bigger subject that the EV cars themselves.

About efficiency, I strongly believe that EVs should allow you to free-wheel coast, and only regenerate when breaking. In my petrol car, free-wheel coasting improves mileage considerably.

[bored1980]

Even with Better Place in mind, Renault aren't using the same sized batteries in their cars. That's interesting. If they can't agree on one set of dimensions, how will the other dozens of upcoming electric car models be able to use Better Place's system?

[oxcap]

another great video, thank you!

[ivarsrini]

brutal regen braking!! your brake pads will last forever!

[NeilBlanchard]

@ivarsrini A car can get 100% of it's braking from regen without having "brutal" regen. The accelerator pedal should do *just* acceleration, and all the regen should be on the brake pedal.

The FVT eVaro does this, and it goes 125 miles on a 21kWh pack. It has two direct drive motors on the front wheels, and can brake 60-0mph in ~130 feet. It only uses the inboard disk brakes to hold it still or in an emergency. Acceleration is 0-60mph in about 5 seconds, by the way.

Neil

[AudiMouse]

Nice, love the new look. The format with you giving a rundown "face to face" before the actual content adds something too. Hopefully it's something you'll continue to do in future episodes.

[SpaceCorpsDirectives]

Loved the old theme music, but the new look does look slick and add's a more professional shine. Really good news about the lower price of a big EV like the Fluence, but it will be interesting to see what sort of levies they will introduce on the batteries, could this be the breakthrough way of making money some greedier companies needed to get in the game?

[edstar83]

Now that electric cars are going to be mass produced by also all the major car companies, I have a feeling better batteries will come much sooner than later. These cars will be doing 600 miles per charge before you know it.

[kyoko703]

I think it's great that you are taking this series in a different direction. Though I am not surprised at all in the evolution of the show as it was quite clear in the episode in which you had Carlos Ghosn on and the discussion you two had. The question of transportation is only a minor one. The bigger question is man vs energy as we figure out how to acquire it, use it, and store it. Far too long we've been squandering it and assume it's plenty. I can't wait to see more episodes!!!!! :-)

[stbloomfield]

Drive your Leaf out to some UK wind farms...

[NeilBlanchard]

Robert, I like the new look, and I like that the intro is shorter, too. I think the broadened focus to include energy topics is excellent. Keep up the good work!

Neil

[NeilBlanchard]

I think regen braking is fine, but free-wheel coasting is more efficient. If you only drive in 2 modes (accelerating and braking) and you are not able to coast easily and predictably, then the range will suffer. If you accelerate, and then when you lift your right foot and free-wheel coast, and the either accelerate a bit again and coast or brake with regen *on the brake pedal*, your range will be better overall.

[grungerman]

@NeilBlanchard I think the idea with the regen on the accelerator pedal is that the transition from applying power to regenerating power is smooth, so if you want to keep a constant speed, you continuously adjust the power output, much as you do with a normal car. When you want to slow, you ease off a bit, or a lot depending on the situation, much like normal engine braking, but potentially stronger. The result being you CAN coast, by holding accelerator so no power is used/regen-ing.

[NeilBlanchard]

@grungerman Better efficiency comes from coasting -- down hills in particular. It is a "smoother transition" to coast in between accelerating and braking; 3 modes vs 2 modes.

I know ecodriving: my Scion xA is rated at 30MPG by the EPA, but my year round average is 45MPG, and my record is 55+MPG. Free wheel coasting easily and predictably by lifting your right foot (so you can rest it) is the best way to get longer range.

Neil

[grungerman]

@NeilBlanchard Electric motor efficiency does not behave the same way as combustion engine efficiency. Electric motors are pretty efficient whatever load you put on them, whereas engines decrease efficiency with load. Therefore, using engine braking and gradual acceleration to coast with a combustion engine does lead to high fuel efficiency, but that efficiency doesn't necessarily translate to how an electric motor will behave, as they're pretty well efficient regardless of load.

[NeilBlanchard]

@grungerman Yes, the efficiency of electric motors is quite consistent across the RPM range, but this doesn't mean that coasting isn't still the most efficient way to roll. I'm not talking about pulse and glide, but I am talking about gliding whenever it is possible.

Another way to think about it: when you glide (using the kinetic energy stored in the moving mass of the car), you only lose energy to parasitic friction and drag. When you use regen, you add the losses within the electrics.

[grungerman]

@NeilBlanchard basically, serious EV makers wouldn't use regen if it didn't work better than coasting. Range is a major factor in buying EVs, and anything that maximises it will be used.

[NeilBlanchard]

@grungerman When did I say to not use regen? I didn't. What I said was we need to be able to easily coast; in addition to having regen. I think the best way to do this would be to only put regen on the brake pedal, and to have the car coast when you lift your right foot off of the accelerator pedal.

[NeilBlanchard]

@grungerman By the way, I have designed a very efficient electric car called CarBEN EV (w/ 5 seats) that I will start building a working prototype very soon -- check my posts on BlogSpot. It should have a range of at least 300-400 miles per charge.

Neil

[NeilBlanchard]

Aerodynamics is key to higher efficiency. The EV1 & Illuminati Motor Works 7 & Dave Cloud's Dolphin all have much better aerodynamic drag and they have average consumption of 150-165Wh/mile at highway speeds, and they have ranges that reflect that. Dolphin goes 200 miles on a single charge (w/ lead acid batteries!). 7 has gone ~215 miles on a ~33kWh lithium pack.

The electric version of the Edison2 Very Light Car goes under 110Wh/mile, which is very, very good.