Johannes Passion - Herr, unser Herrscher

[gtinebike]

I instantly thought the tempo was too fast. The singers can barely get through it. The running time says it all at 90s faster than usual. I have heard much better versions

[Liantotjahjoputro]

Really difficult to decide tempo Herr unser herscher. Many pro contra. Fast tempo..... i feel great energi like God destroy everything bad energie. But Philippe Herreweghe also very greatttt , slow version make powerful spiritual energie. Better we play sometimes fast version and anotherday slow version

[Liantotjahjoputro]

Fantastic

[potatoepeter1]

wer hockt da im Puplikum?

[Tsotne16]

Gardiner is the BEST (along with Herreweghe)

[timolobo]

Why is the tempo so fast?

[Timrath]

@timolobo Because the conductor really understood this music.

You probably think it's too fast, but that's just because you're used to certain other recordings.

Personally, I prefer being flexible and listening to radically different interpretations that reveal aspects not touched by conventional interpretations. It's a question of whether one wants to have a broad or a narrow horizon.

[marcellny]

as much as I like slow tempos in this piece. Richter for instance, I do love the intensity here! Who are the performers? I think it's sublime. Tempo is an interpretative tool.... The conductor gets through. I however wish to know who they are and where are they performing?

[achim56nrw]

Much too fast. It seems the conductor still had another appointment this very evening.

[achim56nrw]

Viel zu schnell. Warum hat es denn der Dirigent so eilig? Hatte er noch einen Termin an diesem Abend?

[JosephPatrickMcmahon]

The tempo Was perfect

[vercio1972]

Scopiazzata l'interpretazione di Harnoncourt fin nei minimi particolari, a parte il tempo, molto più veloce. Deprecabile! Incredibile!

[vercio1972]

Scopiazzata l'interpretazione di Harnoncourt fin nei minimi particolari, a parte il tempo, molto più veloce. Deprecabile!

[ciatro]

Excuse me, why so fast? the conductor did hurry?

[JeanFonsse]

Et alors ? Quand vous regardez un tableau de Claude Manet vous vous préoccupez plus de la dimension de la toile que de la palette de couleurs ? Pareil pour Bach: le contrepoint passe avant le tempo que je sache. Cette version serait inaudible dans une grande cathédrale, mais là, c'est très bien fait, et les volées de doubles-croches passent sans problème. Bon, c'est peut-être pas très adéquat pour une "passion", mais même là, il y aurait beaucoup à dire...

[JeanFonsse]

@JeanFonsse Claude MONET JeanFonsse. Ralala

[benz981]

the guy in the middle at 1:26 is hot.

[marcellny]

i love it !!!! odd since i am a fan of Karl Richter's ever so profound version. this is exciting, moving and at the same time effective. Love it!!!!!

[baiNEKO]

this isn't Bach, it's the Tarkovsky soundtrack ;P

definitely not "beautiful"

[Sockekatze1]

Bach is a synonym for beautiful!

It's not made to just be beautiful but actually because this was, for Bach at least, the best possibility to transport the message st. Johann was telling in the bible.

[Sockekatze1]

Bach is a synonym for beautiful!

[Siewai7]

@Bachelio Who's the conductor?? Is there a CD recording of the whole Passion? I love it! Brilliant interpretation.

[sam0xin]

Even in this unusual-modern tempo... BACH still GENIUS ! HE IS UNPARALLELED FOR GOOD ! 3:45 !!!! HE is REALLY LOVED BACH ! singing by heart....

[MAXAcca]

This is perfect.

[juenatics]

this tempo is exactly right - it highlights the sturm und drang effect that late Bach works were designed to express. the tempo highlights the intense pathos of this opening movement -- lines of imitative polyphony blended together into a single dark stormy swirl of emotions.

[dunepassat]

Great!

Where's the rest of it?

[meepmeep79]

too fast!!!!

[FabioCostaMusic]

Nagyon szép! Jó tempo, artikulació, előadásmód!

Congratulations!

[Mmmmmmmbacon]

MMmmmm.... sublime.

As to tempo... this is not rushed. The pulsing bass and the counterpoint in the vocal lines seem to fit into this tempo naturally. Slower seems a little labored. Suzuki and the Bach Collegium Japan perform it at only a slightly slower pace... just a smidgen... and it works well too. It all adds to the tension, foreboding and urgency of the message of the whole Oratorio. Love it!

[arglborps]

@Mmmmmmmbacon I just looked all over YouTube to find a version of this at just the right tempo. Bach is always played too slow, I believe. This one is just fine.

Bach is considerably groovy and moving music and needs tempo to emphasise the rhythmicality of the music.

[iblaaa]

Szeretem! Nagyon szeretem!

[Belenderer]

Na végre egy magyar is szól valamit

[iblaaa]

ó, én végig itt voltam/vagyok, csak annyira angolul megy a diskurálás, hogy nem szálltam be! jobb, ha ebből kimaradok. viszont a véleményem igaz, nagyon szeretem, és szerintem úgy jó az előadás, ahogy van! hogy miért ilyen gyors? Akit érdekel, kérdezze meg Vashegyit, kiforrott véleménye van erről. Engem meggyőzött! :) Neked mi a véleményed?

[Belenderer]

nem tudok válaszolni

[karl43klotz]

I can only recommend to attend the performance by the Thomanerchor and the Gewandhaus-Orchestra in Leipzig. This is the place where this piece was performed first.

[Areohsea]

I've looked in vain for info on the name of the choir and director so I can buy a DVD or CD. Can anyone help me?

It's one of the most beautiful performances I've ever heard. Tempo's perfect. I've listened and watched many others and they're so boring when slower.

[AutumnLullaby87]

Purcell Choir and Orfeo Orchestra, directed by György Vashegyi.

[JanPB]

My goodness, what's the rush?

[iblaaa]

<3  <3 <3

[prohlep]

Not using the score is distracting?

There are two reasons why I love this recording. (1) the appropriate speed of the performance, and (2) at least one musician does not grab himself into the score.

For me, the rest of the musicians are a bit distracting.

Why they use any score? Are they well prepared?

[paradoxicus]

El tiempo No es definitivamente rapido.

Hacen falta muchas audiciones para observar lo que quiere transmitir el director.

El Coro es simplemente impresionante.

[maestrovoci]

Sorry, not my cup of tea. I favor the Harnoncourt version with a choir of men and boys - and ... BOY SOLOISTS who are more than adequate, fabulous the alto aria "Es ist vollbracht" - with authentic old instruments - nothing can match that performance. Period.

[19871014]

what is this rush? was jesus running up the hill with the cross?

[Foinse91]

wir haben die johannespassion vor einem jahr gesungen. mit ca200 leuten und einem wahnsinnig guten orchester. diese wunderbare agressive mitreißende musik macht mir immer wieder gänsehaut...

don't forget: it's a passion!

[Memale2009]

Ich habe sie 1975 im Straßburger Münster unter der Leitung von René Metter, dem damaligen Leiter des Konservatoriums von Colmar gesungen, begleitet von einem Stuttgarter Orchester. Dieses einzigartige Erlebnis werde ich nie vergessen. Gänsehaut- ja, das ist es! Aber mir fehlt bei YouTube doch DIE Interpretation: ich wünsche mir eine Aufnahme mit dem Thomanerchor aus Leipzig. Hab ich nicht gefunden...

[erasmo67adr]

johann sebastian bach é o pináculo da música erudita, sua música dramática e religiosa demonstra o terrível conflito espiritual em que a humanidade se encontra, até o advento do Messias.

[99826237]

estou facinado .e incrivel

[pagerbear]

Since we're all being bitchy about this video, I've got to say the one man in the choir who doesn't hold music is really, really distracting. He might be impressed with himself for having the piece memorized, but he's really drawing attention to himself, which a choral singer never, ever wants to do.

[ozandevrimyay]

I totally agree. Unless he is blind.

[DustyDCM]

Yes, his stance reminds me of a blind singer I know and eyes remain ahead always - in the right direction, but never quite looking at anyone

[lefekir]

Simply a superb performance!

[Csiga1000]

Fantasztikus felvétel. Gratulálok! :)

[JAOudshoorn1]

Good balance, clear voices, strong tempo, microphones well placed. The opening piece of a very emotional play, meant to shake you up, certainly not to please. I find it strong, maybe 1% too fast.

[paradoxicus]

JSB,admite ésto y mucho mas.

[JosephPatrickMcmahon]

I love tempo a nice brisk early tempo

[Cantormatis]

Actually, I rather like this tempo, and yes, it is rather brisk! On the other hand, the chain suspensions in the oboes work better. As for temp markings in the baroque- we really don't know what they really meant.

[muadanbua]

what is crazy about the tempo???

he who has ears to hear will hear that this tempo is perfect.

by the way tzhe whole interpretation is extremely tasteful.

[waidrius]

absolutely tooo fast.

[mmgcl]

Terrible! It seems they're in a hurry to end the concert... which had just began!

As if it wasn´t enough the tempo chosen, they still manage to accelerate!

A little bit out of control, no?

[Tripmania123]

Maybe you are just used to another version. Maybe used to the first version you have heard.

[gbernhards]

Tempo is absolutely not too fast as some of you suggest.

[Baerli70]

@gbernhards -> It is really too fast!

[prohlep]

Stormy tempo and not understandable details are important to correctly recall the passion, what was quickly over just before anybody could understand what was really going on.

The right tempo is faster than the emotion of the audience. It is right not to give room for the audience to catch all the details during the performance. The understanding comes later in mind.

Passion was an unexpected storm between two fronts: what the mankind was expected, and what the Lord gave to the mankind.

[milenapopovic]

@prohlep I like this video, specially because I understand what you mean by "understanding comes later in mind". This is perfect, when we talk about this Bach's masterpiece...

[nicu71]

wonderful.and don't fast!!!

[clumsy109]

das tempo ist genau richtig. wir führen das ende des monats auf und singen's auch so... bin mal gespannt, wie das konzert wird! so im zusammenklang hört's sich ja richtig gut an! Wenn man im Chor steht und immer nur seine eigene Stimme hört, wirkt es etwas wirr... ;) Kommt aber wahrscheinlich wirklich davon, dass man sich total konzentrieren muss... naja... wird schon! ;) Freu mich drauf!

[Marccub]

I love this crazy tempo. Make the situation more dramatic !

[everydaywarriors]

death doesn't need to stalk you.. it will claim you eventually.

[piccard911]

Das Tempo ist OK. Erinnert euch doch mal an die laschen Tepi von Richter und Friends. Johannespassion ist wirklich konzentriert, dramatisch und einfach nur genial.!

[kevin18x9]

Ja, das ist wirklich ein wenig zu schnell, doch was solls. Wir klagen darüber, dass das Tempo zu schnell ist, aber selber können wir so etwas nicht zu Stande bringen. Der Chor ist wunderbar, bedenken wir an die Zeit, wo dieser geniale Komponist- BACH - lebte. Ihm standen grade mal ein Dutzend Sänger zur verfügung- das mag auch an den Kosten liegen-.

Mein Lob

[FMatt099]

no, it is not much too fast, the violins could play louder!

[debartzen]

¡Cierto.!No me gusta la dirección.Parece que está dirigiendo un "Andante cantabile."y que pierde el tren.

Lo que pasa es que aún así es tan grande ésta "Passion",que suena bien.

Grande la labor del coro y del bajo sin partitura.¡Puestos a lujos..,!

[muadanbua]

what do u want?

andante means walking.

try to walk with it: perfect!

and: più cantabile di così si muore...

[jujajuja22687]

too fast!

[FMatt099]

yes it is a little too fast

[kirkbybonnerthomas]

Oops... I'm sorry...Sorrysorrysorry... But I see you love Emma Kirkby too:)

[kirkbybonnerthomas]

Look at this man in bass without score... Why is he singing from memory? He's terribly show out!!!!!!!

[debartzen]

El bajo con barba o perdió la partitura o no la necesita.Lo cierto es que lo hace muy bien.

Otra cosa es la dirección unánimente todo el mundo dice"too fast".Todos no pueden estar equivocados.

Aún así ,es tan grande,el introito de ésta pasión que no puedo por menos que decir.Excelente.

[ckeledjian]

Too fast... needs to be dramatic and pesante.

[debartzen]

Inicio de "La pasión según San Juan."El tempo algo rápido,mas la interpretación con la intensidad y el rigor necesario.Las voces excelentemente conjuntadas.

[ekadza]

I've heard the slower versions and they sound rather lacking in assurance... and also very pompous. "Beloved in all countries" should sound like a joyful zip round the globe, not a foot-dragging stodgy business... to my mind. Yay Hungary!!

[ekadza]

Lovely clean sound - as for the speed I guess I'm prejudiced as this is the speed I last sang it. Great!

[joejoosten]

much too fast!

[muscarine2000]

they speeded it up like in the version mixed with african music: lambarena, bach to africa! they did a great job with bach's prelude n°14 they slowed it down and it is just marvelous!!

[JosephPatrickMcmahon]

Hey muscarine2000 you're the only other person I've ever met that knows the Lambarena recording ...the blended African and classical renditions of various Bach works. The St. John Herr unser Herrscher with the tapping of sticks and odd instruments accompnaning gives it a more fighteneing posture doesn't it. Kind regards, Joe

[musicalidea]

Can someone please post that on YouTube? I would be very interested in listening to it!

[ClemensZwei]

...viel zu schnell... das ist keine dramatik das ist schweinsgalopp

[prohlep]

...viel zu schnell..., aber ich werde nicht einschlafen! The passion is a fundamental drama between the God and the mankind, concentrated into less than 24 hours, featuring rapid evolution of the action. A speedy and noisy introduction is needed.

[Adeltraut]

hm es gibt noch schnellere versionen. Ich finde das ist nicht das Problem, sondern, dass die Balance zwischen forte und piano fehlt. Sie singen die leisten passagen zu laut. Da geht eine Menge verloren durch diese Unsauberkeit

[ignatio82]

Vashegyi a király! Gyertek vidékre is zenélni!

[DavidMJordan]

I think this is the Hungarian Karaoke version.

[staybeautiful101]

I performed this with my choir just last night :) this is wonderful

[RusskiSuperPower]

A risky experiment with this speeding it up but I think they pulled it perfectly, I think it adds tension and urgency. Who are the performers?

[benkopal]

György Vashegyi conducting the Purcell choir and Orfeo orchestra

[niamaztor]

This is the normal speed! I like this tempo, it's perfect!! Nothing wrong with it.

[musicalidea]

Reading over the comments one can, with relative assurance, be assured that jury's out - the damn thing is too fast.

However, the choir does not falter under the demands of the fast tempo...melismatic lines don't drag; there is not a compromise of pitch for speed...the ensemble is fit for battle, but they are not to blame if their leader causes them to falter.

[rachmaninov67]

Quel tempo rapide ! Est-ce bien le tempo précisé par Bach ? (s'il en précise un)

[jhonnybgood90]

It is pretty clear the musicians aren't really motivated. They hurry their way through this piece like they have to catch a train afterwards.. It's like the tape is pressed on fast forward. Their haste is a waste of this masterpiece

[Rik77]

I quite like this speed becasue musically it is quite dramatic and dark like this. However, I recently saw a very heartfelt performance with a much smaller choir at a slower speed. The singers were able to be more expressive and the overall effect was much more magical and atmospheric than this one. Harnoncourt has emphasised the dramatic side here.

[boytrack]

This is a Passion...NOT a Requiem! It is a huge difference! I I can´t believe that Jesus crawled his way to his judgement...or did he?

This performance is brilliantly executed, with a swing!

[Terra1990]

è bellissima

[pnro1]

Sehr schön Vielen Dank und alles gut

MFG The-Good:Bad_Ugly

[richter91]

yeah it's much too fast indeed

[Maspixxx]

Too fast, my God, absolutely too fast: it's the introductive choir of a Passion, not a Gloria. I can't believe conductors still committe such serious mistakes, as I can't believe this conductor doesn't understand that this choir is designed to introduce the mood of the whole passion, and so he ruins the magical, intense, drammatic atmosphere he could easily reach at a slower speed. Bad, very bad.

[euphorialstream]

The faster tempo makes the piece sound natural--the music is free to speak for itself at this pace. There isn't any artifice or dramatic shifts and pauses, the piece just unfolds outward...beautifully.

[PuppyZwolle]

True. But it is mainly a matter of acoustics. Not every 'room' can digest music that fast. That is why music is slower in (mainly) big churches.

[CharlieDraper]

I think this recording is (ignoring the terrible quality) generally very good, although I remain partial to a fractionally slower tempo. I do think it's rather amusing that the orchestra is full of period of instruments when half the chorus is female however. . . .

Although I take no sides, I'm very pleased that the 'period performance' debate exists, because it means we, the listeners, benefit from twice as many recordings, in a whole spectrum of styles.

[PuppyZwolle]

Just twice? :-)

[Timrath]

Who gave euphrialstream a negative rating?? I think his opinion was quite correct. The fast tempo makes the music much more transparent and dynamic, and the choir and orchestra did an excellent job. What's wrong with you guys? Do you really think this experiment went so horribly wrong that you have to give everyone who liked the outcome a bad rating? The rating system is here for punishing trolls and spammers, not for punishing those with a different taste than yourself.

I liked it too. Sue me.

[laplantine]

Beautiful? No, this is Bach music.

[muscarine2000]

you speak like rafa nadal! lol! i think it is cute!!

[AnselmoHabbibi]

Yes, not Rafa's cup of tea. But I think this version is more preferred by Novak Đoković and maybe Goran Ivanišević ;)

[dfnvksdvnvsdkvn]

oha atlı mı kovalıyo a.q. tabakhaneye bok mu yetiştiriyonuz.

[osdepeluix]

I think the tempo is fine. There's no relationship between speed and dramatic content, as long as the harmonic tempo is reasonable, which is absolutely the case here. This obsession or slow tempo is just a romantic topic. This conductor is extremely good.

[JaffarAleksandersson]

Beautiful composition but way too fast. The best I've heard so far is by Peter Schreier (Dresden), I truly think that performance of German music is best when performed by Germans.

[Myaquarelle]

yes.. its really too fast.. but wonderfull <3

[Filmauge]

Too faaaaast!

[Kerlerot]

On dirait du swing !

Not interesting !

[diesiraestudios]

AMAZING

[toppix7]

It's very much too fast. The sad character of this piece pictured by the oboe can't not be expressed at this velocity. The beautiful fuge isn't heard in its full extent.

This piece of music is the beginning of a "requiem" (one should not forget this when considering if it is played "right") and in this respect it is much too fast. Consider going to a funeral and hearing such a fast chorus ... it's not appropriate! It loses the character Bach gave it

[villa72]

Actually, he nailed the character of Bach's interpretation of the Passion of St. John, which is essentially a hurried and confusing rush from Gesthamane to Gologtha, with the disciples scattered and Jesus caught up in a rush to judgment.

[lhiram23]

i agree..

[SECRETofLIFEstaYoung]

not appropriate?

try silence. its golden.

[lhiram23]

i agree totally (bis)

Karl Richter... oooh yes! ;-)

[hautboishavoc]

As an oboist who has played this, I can understand why someone would want to play it this fast. It's a chop buster. . .

[esthertje12]

This performance is the best I've ever heard.

It sounds very inspired en enthousiastic. I think György Vashegyi is a great conductor.

[kirkbybonnerthomas]

The choir and the orchestal is really very good, but Vashegyi is terrible! I know him.

[kirkbybonnerthomas]

The choir and the orchestal is really very good, but Vashegyi is terrible! I know him.

[kirkbybonnerthomas]

I mean... orchestra.

[Vihor189]

"Beautiful? No,This is Bach music!!"! - And, time to time, if If I may... The God sounds, God's music !!!

[gpwerner]

henochdavid- So how did it feel to sing next to the hottest female choir on the planet? :)

Seriously, some of these women of the Purcell are too gorgeous--they almost outshine the beauty of the music!

[henochdavid]

:)) gpwerner, that's true.

[abnerwagner]

WOW!! What a velocity!!!!! Its fantastic!!! I see this chorus like a desperate prayer raising to Heaven, and when you are really groaning of pain you don´t have time for patience.

The disciples anguish, the mockeys of jewish men, the blood tears of Jesus are quasi real in the introduction. I give a 10 for this version.

[stepaushi]

I agree, and I think that J. S. Bach was one of the very few composers who understood what you say so well that it is so genuinely conveyed in his music.

[Bachsoboe]

The tempo is fine I think. The opening chorus has an urgency, just listen to the oboes. It's almost an opera overture, and tells us that this is not going to be a happy story.

[grossetp]

yes the tempo, is quite fine. I recommend you the Paul McCreesh version....

[silla20]

great

[Dopplereffektz]

too fast , it takes away the drama of the moment

[pyq1983]

It is not very fast really. Noraml tempo.

[ghostwriter11]

I agreed. Way too fast. The Karl Richter version comes at you with the inevitability of history itself. Slow but sure.

[SenJiGenko]

Nein, das ist nicht zu schnell.

Es ist nichteinmal schnell genug;)

Man höre sich die Brnensky Akademicky Sbor Goia della musica Praha, Andreas Kröper an.

Das ist wirklich schnell. Und sehr passend.

[RAATCC36]

I kinda prefer it fast, maybe a tad slower than this, but I find it often drags when slow, i mean this depends on the choir and the conducting of course though too, I like how in this version I can actually hear the most of the words,

[otfried]

No, I don't think the tempo is too fast. The tempo is justified by the context and the dissonant chords: this is the opening chorus of a passion music, which should convey the dramaticity and the anguish of Jesus' passion. And I find that the quick tempo serves the lyrics perfectly

[DavidMJordan]

Thanks! I've watched this about 10 times now.

[Atma108]

i think the speed is all right, very interesting, it really swings...

[toppix7]

This is much too fast, one cannot hear it to the end. I don't understand the conductor's intention in playing so fast .. it's a pity for this wonderful piece of music

[key2738]

Too fast... but don't kill it :P Listened Harnoncout :-D!

[Kruemel63]

its really too fast, but although good (:

[JameleeBond]

its too fast ..kills it !

[angryoldfatman]

I agree with gr8musicfan & Contrapvntvs - this version is very dramatic and compelling.

[grupetto]

Too fast, this attempt against the dramatic character of the work.

[henochdavid]

hahaha, so, that's the Purcell-Choir and Orfeo-Orchestra, directed by György Vashegyi at the Music Academy, Budapest, Hungary, eastern 2004. On the rightest side, in the bass - that's me :D

[gpwerner]

henochdavid- So how did it feel to sing next to the hottest female choir on the planet? :)

Seriously, some of these women of the Purcell are too gorgeous--they almost outshine the beauty of the music!

[disolk]

well... not bad at all, I like it! I love the video with Suzuki too.

[tekamalkav]

fast execution...

but... good!

[gr8musicfan]

Fantastic! I wouldn't change the tempo at all. The effect is dramatic and electrifying. Truly Inspiring! Just the way a Passion should be. Some of the other renditions posted here seem mechanical, pedestrian, almost sleepy, by comparison. Bach reworked this piece several times. Perhaps this tempo achieves the effect he was striving for. Bravo and Thankyou

[RiccardoP1983]

Too fast execution...

[hhancerli]

Soo fast that they murdered the motiffs and emotional atmosphere that they were supposed to prompt.

[drjotais]

Beleza!!! sin palabras

Es aca cuando me doy cuenta que esto no lo escribio J.S. Bach solo, me doy cuenta que esta la mano del señor detras, de otra forma no lo creo posible

[dabruster]

I've never heard this performed so fast before.

[firebreathone]

It is rather swift.. I have to agree. I suppose they could have performed it more slowly.

[Contrapvnctvs]

Perhaps five or eight beats less in a minute would be the perfect tempo. But they go like wind -as somebody said before, and it allows us to imagine a dark, near demonic yet heavenly choir in a tremendous windstorm. Wery dramatic, and this is what anybody would expect from an opening section of the Passion secundum Johannem. Plus, we can listen torough the da capo section without being bored.

[jormundgard]

the conductor is György Vashegyi. the ensemble is from Hungary and the subtitle is in Hungarian, needless to say. and by the way, this piece is one of my faves.

[vitellia]

could you tell me who the performers are? and when and where was this? and just out of curiosity, what language is that subtitle?

[morindhe]

Conductor/orchestra? They go like the wind.

[dfnvksdvnvsdkvn]

arkandan atli kovaliyo oolum yavas yonet su orkestrayi

[guyincognito84]

Perhaps the greatest religious piece ever written

[eyesk8er]

Possibly. But even many who sincerely love this work would claim that that distinction belongs to Bach's St. Matthew Passion & its opening chorus.