Deut:4:19: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which YHVH thy Father hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Don't believe in HOROSCOPES
Why do people think ,the sun, moon and stars, can influence their lives.
The Bible teaches that those who engage in the sins of false worship and idolatry will not go unpunished.
I ascribe a planetary influence to cutting you off because you are full of shit. After centuries of serious study it was you that owned the truth all along huh? Stop being rhetorical and join the army!
Given this: "You bemoan a personal attack when one occurs, then you say I don't understand sarcasm , bit like chasing your tail... "
Astrologers take the personal route because they don't like being asked difficult questions by someone who they decree is qualified to. I was stating a fact, not bemoaning it. I don't care.
This is priceless coming from an astrologer: "...,but I suppose it does conveniently let you avoid arguing the details of astrology." Real black kettle stuff there
And I will state a fact too. If you do not have fundamental knowledge and experience of astrology you cannot argue it's merits. Add that to your petty little lists if you will, but it is a fact that can not be avoided,..... though you are trying very hard to void it.
Who is arguing this: "...you cannot argue it's merits" - it is obviously therapeutic for the client. I have never debated that. I'm stating that it is all based on a false premise that the position of heavenly bodies and life on earth are "aligned".
Define the "thing" that connects life on earth and the position of Pluto.
The fact that you have been arguing on this forum for so long and STILL think astrology is about a persons sign is jus't incredible. I have given some of the areas of astrology that need examination , then you may feel a bit more intellectually equipped to argue.
I spent a lot of time asking how it works, from a few dozen angles. Astrologers assume it works & then preach it works.
What actually have you done to demonstrate that the position of a planet actually does align with a person's traits?
The studies I have read generally all conclude that a person's traits are not anything to do with the position of heavenly bodies - how about you provide an intelligent response to that & don't change the subject?
I have to the satisfaction of many many people , interpreted their charts , drawing attention to various aspects and positions in their natal chart which can demonstrate how they have and could continue to react to their environment and circumstances for better or worse. When things may change , Saturn's return, Uranus's return e.t.c. Unless you have actually gone through the process with a genuinely open mind ( that does not mean blindly accepting everything ) it is very difficult to grasp
So how come you removed your very good black plague example? Don't tell me it was flawed? Shock horror!
Every time an astrologer provides their version of facts I check them out. Don't try to bluff me in future.
I actually have gotten a couple of astrology websites to remove a fake quotation attributed to A Einstein. I'm sure you have it in your list of "proof of astrology" like the rest.
Not trying to bluff anyone, i'm sure you more than capable of doing that to yourself. I did not remove a black plague example, I removed a comment bacause my keybord got stuck . assumptions again, " I actually got some fake comments removed " Oh are'nt you the champion of the people , ha! Why don't you direct your energies where people will actaully benefit, join amnesty or something . Lot's of " fake " as you put it ,quotations are erroneously attributed to some people.
What? And let astrologers make false claims via a public media. No, taking pot-shots at astrologers is much more fun. I actually do it out of respect for Einstein. How insulting to suggest the great man was driven by astrology.
They usually only have a few comebacks & I've heard them all before & none of them have any substance. Such as:
I never said anything about how accurate I may be, it is not something I would discuss, the person who makes that judgement is the person whose chart I interpret, and given that I have the same clients coming to me who came to me over 20 years ago that's good enough for me.
As soon as Pluto moved in Sagitarius the disease abated or in the case of aids retovirals were developed to delay the and reverse the cytotoxic effects and reduce the viral load to an extent that is manageable. That is one example , there are many, many more if you took the time to have more than a cursory look at jus't the personal aspect of astrology which you seem to think it is limited to. How does it work hmmmm?? Well first you need to know what the planets represent
through penetration of some type , e.g. a needle in to a vein. It has changed the attitude and affected society as a whole and has forced change in a lot of areas. Pluto moves slowly throug the signs , the last time Pluto occupied scorpio over 400 years ago , the plague , or black death was widespread, leading to huge medical research and advances for the time. ,
Seeing as the impact of the plague lasted off and on about 500 years and hit Europe about 1350 I'd say you're drawing a very long bow. Confirmation bias again!
Plus which particular country are you referring to? The plague outbreaks happened over the next 500 years all around the European/Asia area. What you need to do is use facts not throw in a lot of broad coincidences.
If you are satisfied that it fails for you through whatever flimsy means you chose to come to your conclusion why don't you just' move on. It's not failing for many people and that's what matters.
My astrology tutor was a fellow emeritus in physics and mathmathics in a by day .. He obviously found the merits of astrology for himself and was a great tutor in astrology.
Hey man if you really do not believe in God or a Almighty being.....let me ask you one question ... Go search in the bible because on the net you wont find what I will tell ya....Do you believe in yourself?...and if your answer is yes then you believe in God....and go and search in the bible for the sentence Do you believe in God!??!
Charles Johnson studied it for 30 years until his death in 2001, James McIntyre a moderator at the Flat Earth Society does too. So does Zakir Naik head of the Islamic Research Foundation. That being said the are all nutters!
Studying astrology is as pointless as studying flat earthism for a year...it is a near complete waste of time...especially when there are areas of study that are demonstrably fruitful e.g. organic chemistry, metallurgy, oncology, agriculture...to name a few but yet you expect us to waste our time on study that its own adherents admit they can't prove?
How would you know you have not studied it, let alone tried to apply it , which in my eyes precludes you from arguing it's merits as you have not observed first hand it's merits.
How thouroughly patronising to suggest that you are "correcting peoples misconceptions" , more like you are repeating yourself constantly, these people who do believe generally have knowledge of applied astrology, you do not, did you say you were a Leo ? The irony is not lost...
Because Leo is strongly associated with the ego and "pride" and it seems to me to exceedingly egotistical of someone to suppose that they think so much of themselves that they are going to "correct peoples misconceptions".
It may not be true for you , but you cannot take it upon yourself to say it is not true for anyone else. You made up your mind on astrology long before you came to this forum.
The idea that there is a relationship between the relative positions of the earth, sun, moon and the rest of the planets at the time of one's birth and one's personality is an absolute claim...and it is false.
Did I say I disregard logic ?? No I did not. And again as you illustrate in your comments that seek to "define " you are pedantic in every respect even in your communication. Your classes must be a real thrill !!
Again you are construing comments to suit your view, As stated I do not disregard logic. The difference warrenson is that I seem to know it's limitations.
There you are wrong, they are the mechanisms of psychiatry , psychology relies mainly on the the study of human behaviour , and abnormal behaviour, it uses systems of therapy such as cognitive behaviour therapy e.t.c. What neural network system proves the existence of social phobia ? OCD ? It is the study of the behaviour of the individual that leads psychologists to conclusions, not blood tests, x-rays e.t.c. Pedantic thinking again "mechanism" as if everything that exists is a machine ?/?/?
" To say immediately that you DON'T believe in-for instance-'green pixies' then no matter what anyone shows you, you'll still not believe in green pixies."
Non-sequitur.
A rational person is always prepared to change their mind given sufficient evidence, c.f. 'revisable atheism'.
The Onus of Proof lays with the claimant. In our case it is Astrologers who bear the onus of proof.
Insistence upon accuracy and rigorous guards us all against people who wish to push a particular agenda...if anything pedantic minds are protective...
Explain, Perdurabo3 how it is that "pedantic minds" are more dangerous than people who base psychological therapy upon claims that are unproven/cannot be proven intrasubjectively let alone objectively.
Because they never venture to think outside the box, and compromise progress, as I said in another post , most of the scientists who made major breakthroughs were existentialist thinkers who veered from the orthodox body of thought to develop and prove their hypothesis. And can you provide me with some examples of therapy that are proven scientifically ?
I am, according to astrology a Leo...how does that fit into your "just can't stand to see other's belief in something intangible"? because I agree with him.
Scientist place their research before their peer in a peer review process. There is far more agreement between scientists than you realise...we hear of disagreements between scientists because they are actually rare rather than common. For instance no-one questions certain scientific facts e.g. black body radiation, elemental composition, chemical molarity, gravitational attraction between two sublight speed massive objects etc etc...the same is not true of astrology.
Those who live and debate by sterile methods and acceptance of their findings by peers live in a box. Their research only serves to define the dimensions of that box which decreases in size with every close-minded scientist like you. No wonder it's rare that you would disagree. Very few have the courage to think beyond the methods and outside of the box. WAKE UP! Maybe if you did, you could use your knowledge to provide humanity with something more beneficial than a bevy of youtube comments.
I live in a 3 bedroom house on a 1000m square property.
The confines of what is accepted by scientists is actually infinite...but it does have boundaries. Looking outside the box doesn't require courage but a reason.
With reghards to provding something useful to humanity, I teach Math and Science to high school students.
The most outstanding scientists were existentialists and have usually made their discoveries by diverting from the mainstream scientific body of thought and working with their intuition an rational thought , thus pioneering new developments , that is of course if you believe that intuition exists.
No, new theoretical ground is made when observed facts conflict with currently accetped theories...for example, photons that are emitted by electrons have energies that are not continuously distributed but are quantised...it was believed that there were no constrictions upon the energy levels of photons but the discovery of quantum physics was that they are...otherwise existence would collapse in a flash of UV light.
it is because I do distinguish between them that I raise it as an issue...I know that earth, wind, fire and water are NOT elemental building blocks of matter....the ancients were wrong about this...
The four elements, just like the five elements in China, always had, and still have an esoteric meaning. They never dealt with matter for the matter. If you would have studied astrology and other ancient disciplines profoundly, you would have known. Their approach never was as materialistic as many materialistic (pseudo) researchers assume.
It is when a planet is discovered that it's influence comes in to play, e.g. plutonium and the development of nuclear power , oh and weapons too. Pluto is associated with transformation , death, sex, the masses of people, the two extremes of human behaviour , destruction or healing. Neptune , Uranus and Pluto are all modern planets . And it would take more than some comment boxes to illustrate how they come in to play in astrology. But the data is out there !
You should state clearly that Tropical Astrolgers don't use any constellations whatsoever,,.but in Ptolemy's Tetrablios he is plainly using constellatins...
The onus of proof is upon you. It is not for skeptics to disprove astrology it is for astrologers to prove astrology...wiki "onus of proof" for more information.
Claiming to know the Truth on any subject is a clear indication of pitiable hauteur. Best to follow the sage words of Socrates: "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance."
Warrensson, I find people who tell others what they should do to be particularly lacking in self-worth, which clouds their ability to discuss subjects with an open mind. Why don't you focus on what YOU should be doing with your own life that would make you feel fulfilled so you don't have to debate with us troglodytes?
I'm so glad I couldn't hear anything you were saying. You probably would have just displayed a complete ignorance on the subject. Astrology is one of the oldest sciences in human history, dating as far back as the Chaldeans in 6,000 BC, possibly earlier. I wonder which planet was responsible for the disintegration of your audio. My vote would be for the trickster, Mercury. Go Astrology!!!!!!!
That force would be called gravity. You are living in a solar system with celestial bodies that carry mass far greater than yours, thereby exerting an influence on your "celestial body". Astrology and astronomy were sister sciences for many years. Man sees himself as separate from nature and attempts to define its laws in order to conquer it. Man doesn't really need psychology or astrology to conquer each other, just a gun. Therefore these sciences are not given the credence of others.
The gravitational attraction between any two objects is directly proportional to the product of their masses divided by the square of the distance between the two objects.
The obstetrician/midwife that delivered you had exerted more gravitational attractive force upon you than the planet Jupiter.
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"And how many astrologers do you happen to know ?"
The number of Astrologers that someone may or may not know is completely irrelevant to whether Astrology is real or not.
"that you can claim this person is like *all* astrologers"
That would be a gross generalisation wouldn't it? Somewhat like the gross generalisations about people being similar depending on their time and place of birth...
If you knew the fine details of astrology you would realize that astrology is more keenly aware of individuality than other systems that attempt self examination. There are so many factors to be taken in to consideration, which is why I said Astrology impels not compels. And I never asked you how many astrologers do you know, must of been someone else.
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"We" get that...but we think it is the intellectual equivalent of concession and consequently intellectually dishonest to not admit that much.
Furthermore, we also get that you're not interested in evidence for your claims you're just going to believe what you want to believe regardless of what the facts of the matter might be.
No I believe in what I believe because I have seen it work for myself and others. The facts are if you do not have applied knowledge of astrology you can't argue the details of it.
Would you assert that there is no evidence to validate psychology ??
Theories remain sound until actual observed evidence that contradicts them is found. For example, Rutherford's finding that atoms have a nucleus with a huge amount, relatively, of space between the nucleus and the orbiting electron(s).
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Mr Randi's Astrology test needs to be more robust. I, of course, agree with him but he needs to do a more thorough job...a much bigger test group for a start as well as a rigorous discussion of what is meant by certain words involved in astrological discussion.
nor do they profess to know how, simply that it has and does. There is still much in the scientific world that baffles, most physicians and surgeons would say that the appendix and tonsils are of little or no practical use to humans ad are not sure why we evolved with them, but science at some stage in the future will likely find a function that they have or had, and as with astrology the explicit mechanics of it can not and may never be discerned , that is not enough to dispense with it.
I tried to watch your commentary, but the video was messed up. It ran very very fast and there was white noise through most of what I could bear to watch.
But in response to something you posted in a follow up, astrology is a science of all life forms under the influence of a growing list of electromagnetic energies (or lack thereof), within the construct of time (the fourth dimension) therefore you cannot put it in a petri dish, stick it under a microscope and expect the same result.
i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this video on 10 other videos i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans
very smart people came about astrology. scientists study astronomy and that is where astrology came from. astrology is actually the true bare basis of religion.
astrology is very rellivent dont know if spelt it right but.. astrology and astronomy aren't all about horoscopes buddy. i've been researching astrology, and so far I do believe in it, but I watched and considered your video and opinion didn't i. so don't be so ignorant
"Thousands of years ago the ancients sought answers by looking to the heavens, but thanks to advances in knowledge rational beings realize the inanity of it all, meanwhile those who havent advanced their thinking, the astrologers, still look to the heavens, oblivious to the truth." Adam Peenum.
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I believe the quote from Adam is self evident. I think he is saying the answers are here, in front of you. All this nonsense about using made up stuff supposedly from heavenly readings is just superstition.
I am a rational thinker, very much so, the fact remains that one will never know the merits of astrology unless they study it and apply it to themselves, whatever about anyone else.
I am a scientist, I have been trained to use critical thinking and base what I feel to be of value on the consistency of my results, as most other scientists do, After studying astrology for a long time and subsequently applying it I have got consistent results that have persuaded me of it's value, I doubt that unless a skeptic goes through the same process they will have much reason to observe the merits of astrology. Most professional astrologers do not know the " how " astrology works, cont.
They were not tests as such but rather observations , an example is that I found people who had the sun or moon in the 12th house were likely to have experienced addictions of some type or were currently experiencing them, this was the case with all the people whose charts I cast who had sun in 1th house. This is just one small example. All the best to you. P
Addictions of some kind! To alcohol, drugs, chocolate, cigarettes, shopping, nailbiting... wow there goes 99% of the population
A small number of observations is hardly valid to be able to say there are any conclusions. Samples sizes as large as 5.3 million have revealed no correlation between claimed traits and reality. If you allow yourself to be swayed by such "observations" you are missing the point entirely.
No mainly alcohol and drugs, and these are observations over 20 years, this has absolutely nothing to do with 'traits'. Missing what point ? And they are conclusions no matter how irrational it may sound to you. As I said before an applied knowledge of astrology is needed in order to make a judgment, which creates a catch 22 scenario because people like yourself have already made up their minds about it, and regardless and are unlikely to change their opinions o matter what. Goodbye
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Put together a paper on it & present it to a scientific forum. After the laughter dies down go over your notes to see where you might have stuffed up.
Applied knowledge of astrology is not required to query it or ask how it is tested. That is merely a barrier you guys put up as protection from the real world.
But not to worry, you can say goodbye when the going gets too tough & pretend real world rules don't apply to astrology.
As for changing my opinion, facts will do that every time.
No I can't argue a lot of the points if you don't understand what points I am trying to make and the context, and I have no intention of filling in the gaps for you. What made up nonsense would that be ? specifics please. Thank you.
My astrology tutor was a fellow emeritus in Physics and Mathemathics in the most prestigious University in my country. There are many more like him, obviosly yourself or warrenson don't work in any of the most active areas of the scientific community , if so you would come across many open minded scientists . In fact the study of science opens the mind to in general , does not shut it down completely as it seems to have done with you two.
Reall ? What test did you use . Did you construct and interpret a natal chart for anyone ? What potential qualities would you associate with for example , the moon in aquarius , in the twelfth house. You do need knowledge of a subject before you could even consider a method whereby you can test it. As I said besisdes myself my astrology tutor is a scientist , and so are many people I know who are also astrologers. You can assume what you want, I'd say you float through life on assumptioms
If I used the methods you described it wouldn't work because astrologers continually say it can't be tested (except by other astrologers. LOL). Actually I send an astrologer the birth details of several people and then ask the astrologer to tell me which ones are having a very difficult time in life. I send them details of a few people who are severely handicapped.
So these " few people who are severely handicapped " give you their details with their knowledge and consent for you to do a " test on the validity of astrology " . Ha sounds very unlikely. And you don't have to be severely handicapped to have very difficult time in life, I think you'll find able bodied people are quite adept at it. And you have published your findings in which scientific journal ???????????????
No I didn't bother with the consent. Well you see I lied a bit. I just send details of a bunch of normal people and tell the astrologer that 50% or so are severely handicapped. Works a treat. They going looking for stuff that isn't there, and find it!
I did actually send in one (handicapped) person's details (without their knowledge) and told the astrologer it was mine. You can't imagine how bad that reading was.
The only bullshit comes from your side of the fence. I've been posting for years trying to get answers on how astrology works (never given one scientifically sound response) - I have asked for evidence "it just works because I have used it for years" is the typical response. You guys proclaim it can't be tested then say it is accurate!! LOL
Whether you choose to believe I have sent details for testing is not my concern - I did and I have the results.
How does a psychologist reach their conclusions ?? By studying human behaviour and bnormal human behaviour. Pluto a planet associated with death , transformation of attidudes nd beliefs , healing , forcing change,affecting the masses of people and society and also associated with sex . At the momemt Pluto entered scorpio ( the sign it rule's ls and associated with all of the above ) Aids was clinically isolated, a disease that can be sexually transmitted or transmitted ...cont....
Wow! Finding a relationship after the event! It is called confirmation bias and is how astrology and many of the pseudo-sciences work. You look for events that approximately align and then say one is actually related to the other.
So is there anything that says "watch out for monkeys" when you read the signs. LOL.
As stated some of the basic things you need to learn and then apply to test the validity of astrology. Everything else is merely an opinion that you hold. and you have stated your opinion repetitively here.
Some of the basic things you would need to lern before applying it . The planets and energies and associations , the signs ,qualites, triplicities, elements , houses aspects, nodes, imum coeli , medium coeli , part of fortune, Ascendant, applying , retrograde, dignities , exaltations , detriments , benefic aspects, maleific aspects, decantes, degrees, geocentric, heliocentric, mutual reception , mutul application, midheaven , mid-points , declination , zodiacal longitude, and so on.
You squawk like all astrologers. If you take you head out of your backside you'll find no articles published in reputable independent journals that explain the mechanisms of astrology, or why no astrologer has been able to actually do as claimed. Why you guys can't even agree if it's predictable (don't do that, because that is testable!); it comes across like any other faith based system. No evidence, belief in spite of facts to the contrary and lack of any science to back it up.
Your integrity and the seriousness you take in your attempts really shine through.
What you said above I said about a year ago here. Again as stated you do not hve the knowledge to test it and have shown that your unwilling to seek it out. You have to be the one interpreting the chart , not some randomly picked astrologer, which I don't beleive you done, as a professional astrologer would only take a request first hand , not from asecond party. You are the one squawking weakly.
Hahaha - standard reply from the astrologer's book of piss weak excuses "don't have the knowledge to test it".
I know bugger all about how a magician does his stuff but I can sure as hell find out if he really can saw a lady in half.
If I supply an astrologer with a birth date time and place and he tells me I "enjoy the outdoor life" but the birth details are of someone who actually states they hate the outdoors then by my reasoning that is a fail.
You do not have the knowledge to test it - exactly , now I see the extent of your abiltity to " test " astrology, would you care to give me the name or a means of contact to this purported astrologer that you claim you have contacted, with their consent of course. Idon't see how you can reason on anything you have scant knowledge of..
I asked a 3rd generation astrologer (YT) Chadow723 to give me his BEST example of the power and accuracy of an astrologer.
He cited the example of a women whose purse went astray and her astrologer said it may be returned, and it was. Amazing heh? 100% success. Then I said if it wasn't returned then it is still 100%, as the astrologer said "may". Chadow723 agreed it was ambiguous and he hadn't seen it.
Typical, you guys look for the hits and ignore the misses.
I don't see what your grandma / granda has got to do with anything, but anyway would you ask Chadow723 whether I may contct him or not so I may get his version of events ??
"I don't see what your grandma / granda has got to do with anything..." - so English isn't your first language - that explains a lot.
YT = YouTube. Chadow723 is his YT moniker. You surely must be aware of his fabulous pro-astrology videos.
You upset him by throwing facts and difficult questions and he blocks you. I got blocked. He is an arrogant beef head. We exchanged many pleasantries. He is an honest straight shooter so I'm sure his version of events will match mine.
Your quote: "Idon't see how you can reason on anything you have scant knowledge of.. "
That is why I am unable to make you see reason with regards proper scientific testing, Forer effect etc.
You NEVER test astrology. Until an astrologer devises a fair test method I'm going to believe and argue the readings are a joke at best, and are just guesswork. Convince me otherwise.
Please give me the name of the article in Scientific American that explains astrology's workings, can't seem to find it.
As stated before , and as warrenson to his credit mentioned wisely that some people need repitition , I will state it again astrology of all the systems that attempt self examination keenly recognises the individuality , and rather than being vague and generic is most personal and specific, but again you need experience of applied astrology to understand this.
"...that some people need repitition" - honing in till the guesses are right?
I've got a ten page report from an astrologer (yes I baited him with someone else's birth details) that scored about 10% accuracy. It was reasonably specific and that is why I was able to score the hits and misses so clearly.
Numerous studies have shown no correlation between a person's traits and their sign. Show me otherwise.
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All astrology books = should be thrown in the garbage Bin (in a Ideal World.)
Neueregel 9 months ago
um...
xander55577 11 months ago
So the truth about astrology is that it's noisy and irritating?
davidls11 1 year ago
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Deut:4:19: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which YHVH thy Father hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.
Don't believe in HOROSCOPES
Why do people think ,the sun, moon and stars, can influence their lives.
The Bible teaches that those who engage in the sins of false worship and idolatry will not go unpunished.
derekdb2 1 year ago
Nut case here.
rumpwrestler 1 year ago
I can't even hear him, must be raining in his studio lol
musicgurl6 2 years ago 2
I ascribe a planetary influence to cutting you off because you are full of shit. After centuries of serious study it was you that owned the truth all along huh? Stop being rhetorical and join the army!
CDanielzSpecialist 2 years ago
Where's the audio? All I get is a load of white noise.
MomoTheBellyDancer 2 years ago 3
@MomoTheBellyDancer Which is ironic in and of itself.
lesorciercalifornien 1 year ago
wow. this video was very informative...
Aprilshowersss 2 years ago
Now if You'll excuse me fromm you adolescent tittering and giggiling , I have axes to grind , logs to chop, and disasters to predict :)
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Given this: "You bemoan a personal attack when one occurs, then you say I don't understand sarcasm , bit like chasing your tail... "
Astrologers take the personal route because they don't like being asked difficult questions by someone who they decree is qualified to. I was stating a fact, not bemoaning it. I don't care.
This is priceless coming from an astrologer: "...,but I suppose it does conveniently let you avoid arguing the details of astrology." Real black kettle stuff there
zzytrewq 2 years ago
And I will state a fact too. If you do not have fundamental knowledge and experience of astrology you cannot argue it's merits. Add that to your petty little lists if you will, but it is a fact that can not be avoided,..... though you are trying very hard to void it.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Who is arguing this: "...you cannot argue it's merits" - it is obviously therapeutic for the client. I have never debated that. I'm stating that it is all based on a false premise that the position of heavenly bodies and life on earth are "aligned".
Define the "thing" that connects life on earth and the position of Pluto.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
The fact that you have been arguing on this forum for so long and STILL think astrology is about a persons sign is jus't incredible. I have given some of the areas of astrology that need examination , then you may feel a bit more intellectually equipped to argue.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Another cutting remark! Now I am wounded.
I spent a lot of time asking how it works, from a few dozen angles. Astrologers assume it works & then preach it works.
What actually have you done to demonstrate that the position of a planet actually does align with a person's traits?
The studies I have read generally all conclude that a person's traits are not anything to do with the position of heavenly bodies - how about you provide an intelligent response to that & don't change the subject?
zzytrewq 2 years ago
I have to the satisfaction of many many people , interpreted their charts , drawing attention to various aspects and positions in their natal chart which can demonstrate how they have and could continue to react to their environment and circumstances for better or worse. When things may change , Saturn's return, Uranus's return e.t.c. Unless you have actually gone through the process with a genuinely open mind ( that does not mean blindly accepting everything ) it is very difficult to grasp
perdurabo3 2 years ago
It works for me is probably the one you'll have most difficulty with. LSI , Laughing silently inwardly.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
So how come you removed your very good black plague example? Don't tell me it was flawed? Shock horror!
Every time an astrologer provides their version of facts I check them out. Don't try to bluff me in future.
I actually have gotten a couple of astrology websites to remove a fake quotation attributed to A Einstein. I'm sure you have it in your list of "proof of astrology" like the rest.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
Not trying to bluff anyone, i'm sure you more than capable of doing that to yourself. I did not remove a black plague example, I removed a comment bacause my keybord got stuck . assumptions again, " I actually got some fake comments removed " Oh are'nt you the champion of the people , ha! Why don't you direct your energies where people will actaully benefit, join amnesty or something . Lot's of " fake " as you put it ,quotations are erroneously attributed to some people.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
"Why don't you direct your energies to...."
What? And let astrologers make false claims via a public media. No, taking pot-shots at astrologers is much more fun. I actually do it out of respect for Einstein. How insulting to suggest the great man was driven by astrology.
They usually only have a few comebacks & I've heard them all before & none of them have any substance. Such as:
-It can't be tested
-You're not qualified to judge
-It's ancient
-Millions believe
-Fuck off
-It works for me
zzytrewq 2 years ago
I never said anything about how accurate I may be, it is not something I would discuss, the person who makes that judgement is the person whose chart I interpret, and given that I have the same clients coming to me who came to me over 20 years ago that's good enough for me.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
As soon as Pluto moved in Sagitarius the disease abated or in the case of aids retovirals were developed to delay the and reverse the cytotoxic effects and reduce the viral load to an extent that is manageable. That is one example , there are many, many more if you took the time to have more than a cursory look at jus't the personal aspect of astrology which you seem to think it is limited to. How does it work hmmmm?? Well first you need to know what the planets represent
perdurabo3 2 years ago
through penetration of some type , e.g. a needle in to a vein. It has changed the attitude and affected society as a whole and has forced change in a lot of areas. Pluto moves slowly throug the signs , the last time Pluto occupied scorpio over 400 years ago , the plague , or black death was widespread, leading to huge medical research and advances for the time. ,
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Seeing as the impact of the plague lasted off and on about 500 years and hit Europe about 1350 I'd say you're drawing a very long bow. Confirmation bias again!
Plus which particular country are you referring to? The plague outbreaks happened over the next 500 years all around the European/Asia area. What you need to do is use facts not throw in a lot of broad coincidences.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
Comment removed
perdurabo3 2 years ago
No dear it's called retrograde , check it out !!
perdurabo3 2 years ago
This pretence that you represent the rational folk , get real you represent yourself as I do.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
If you are satisfied that it fails for you through whatever flimsy means you chose to come to your conclusion why don't you just' move on. It's not failing for many people and that's what matters.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
My astrology tutor was a fellow emeritus in physics and mathmathics in a by day .. He obviously found the merits of astrology for himself and was a great tutor in astrology.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
what's with all the junk about astrology working or not? Does it need a 9-5 job?
ScottReturns 2 years ago
Nonsense.
Mass and energy are equivalent ala Einstein's E=mc^2
Matter *is* concentrated energy.
warrensson 2 years ago
I don't believe that you're a professional scientist.
warrensson 2 years ago
Studying falsehood for year only leads to having a deep knowledge about falsehood and the waste of a year.
warrensson 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey man if you really do not believe in God or a Almighty being.....let me ask you one question ... Go search in the bible because on the net you wont find what I will tell ya....Do you believe in yourself?...and if your answer is yes then you believe in God....and go and search in the bible for the sentence Do you believe in God!??!
Awertdg 2 years ago
The examples of the french and mediterranean populations bear this out...it is important that red wine is regarded as being the most beneficial...
warrensson 2 years ago
Would you ever cop on. Who to your knowledge studies "flat earthism" ? examples please.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Charles Johnson studied it for 30 years until his death in 2001, James McIntyre a moderator at the Flat Earth Society does too. So does Zakir Naik head of the Islamic Research Foundation. That being said the are all nutters!
wormbaby79 2 years ago
Studying astrology is as pointless as studying flat earthism for a year...it is a near complete waste of time...especially when there are areas of study that are demonstrably fruitful e.g. organic chemistry, metallurgy, oncology, agriculture...to name a few but yet you expect us to waste our time on study that its own adherents admit they can't prove?
Wake up and smell the coffee!
warrensson 2 years ago
How would you know you have not studied it, let alone tried to apply it , which in my eyes precludes you from arguing it's merits as you have not observed first hand it's merits.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
One doesn't need, for example, to study Chemistry to have an idea of its merits.
warrensson 2 years ago
"SO what should I do yell out and not respect what ppl believes even though "I THINK" IT IS NOT TRUE?"
Correcting people's misconceptions is not disrespect, it is a gift.
warrensson 2 years ago
How thouroughly patronising to suggest that you are "correcting peoples misconceptions" , more like you are repeating yourself constantly, these people who do believe generally have knowledge of applied astrology, you do not, did you say you were a Leo ? The irony is not lost...
bigboppingbill2 2 years ago
"How thouroughly patronising to suggest that you are "correcting peoples misconceptions" "
What would you say to someone who tried to tell you that the world was flat?
" more like you are repeating yourself constantly,"
Some people need repetition.
I'm interested in why you regard my being a "Leo" as being ironic. Could you detail your reasons please?
warrensson 2 years ago
Because Leo is strongly associated with the ego and "pride" and it seems to me to exceedingly egotistical of someone to suppose that they think so much of themselves that they are going to "correct peoples misconceptions".
perdurabo3 2 years ago
It may not be true for you , but you cannot take it upon yourself to say it is not true for anyone else. You made up your mind on astrology long before you came to this forum.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Some truths are relative, some are absolute.
The idea that there is a relationship between the relative positions of the earth, sun, moon and the rest of the planets at the time of one's birth and one's personality is an absolute claim...and it is false.
warrensson 2 years ago
Anecdotal evidence falls far short of the level of proof required.
warrensson 2 years ago
"Obsession with logic...."
We may as well give up debating with someone who disregards logic because its consequences don't accomodate his pet theories...
You've discredited yourself Perdurabo3.
Logic is subject independant reasoning...if you disregard logic you are, by definition, unreasonable.
warrensson 2 years ago
I never said disregard logic, but to recognize that intuition exists also, and to use your rational thought in tandem with your intuitive feeling.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
When your intuition conflicts with evidence and logic...which way do you go?
warrensson 2 years ago
Due West,
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Did I say I disregard logic ?? No I did not. And again as you illustrate in your comments that seek to "define " you are pedantic in every respect even in your communication. Your classes must be a real thrill !!
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Suggesting that someone is "obsessed with logic" or "tut tut you and your evidence" is indicative of someone disregarding logic...
I've noted from some of your other comments that you will use logical arguments, when it suits your purpose.
warrensson 2 years ago
Again you are construing comments to suit your view, As stated I do not disregard logic. The difference warrenson is that I seem to know it's limitations.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
The brain and its neural network/synapses are the mechanism behind psychology.
warrensson 2 years ago
There you are wrong, they are the mechanisms of psychiatry , psychology relies mainly on the the study of human behaviour , and abnormal behaviour, it uses systems of therapy such as cognitive behaviour therapy e.t.c. What neural network system proves the existence of social phobia ? OCD ? It is the study of the behaviour of the individual that leads psychologists to conclusions, not blood tests, x-rays e.t.c. Pedantic thinking again "mechanism" as if everything that exists is a machine ?/?/?
perdurabo3 2 years ago
" To say immediately that you DON'T believe in-for instance-'green pixies' then no matter what anyone shows you, you'll still not believe in green pixies."
Non-sequitur.
A rational person is always prepared to change their mind given sufficient evidence, c.f. 'revisable atheism'.
The Onus of Proof lays with the claimant. In our case it is Astrologers who bear the onus of proof.
warrensson 2 years ago
So...ehhh...how much psychology have you studied in order to make this claim?
warrensson 2 years ago
Therapy that is based upon falsehood is unsafe...
warrensson 2 years ago
Pedantic minds are even more dangerous......
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Insistence upon accuracy and rigorous guards us all against people who wish to push a particular agenda...if anything pedantic minds are protective...
Explain, Perdurabo3 how it is that "pedantic minds" are more dangerous than people who base psychological therapy upon claims that are unproven/cannot be proven intrasubjectively let alone objectively.
I'm waiting.
warrensson 2 years ago
Because they never venture to think outside the box, and compromise progress, as I said in another post , most of the scientists who made major breakthroughs were existentialist thinkers who veered from the orthodox body of thought to develop and prove their hypothesis. And can you provide me with some examples of therapy that are proven scientifically ?
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Einstein, Rutherford, Newton, Planck, Bohr, Copernicus, Kepler, Feynman made major breakthroughs...were any of them Existentialists?
warrensson 2 years ago
I am sure they all were in the sense that they were free thinkers, not bound by existing scientific dogma, so I would say yes.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
The brain.
Try thinking with your feet...give it a good minute and get back to me with your findings.
warrensson 2 years ago
I am, according to astrology a Leo...how does that fit into your "just can't stand to see other's belief in something intangible"? because I agree with him.
warrensson 2 years ago
Tangible, so everything in existence has to be tangible doe it ?? I think not.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Scientist place their research before their peer in a peer review process. There is far more agreement between scientists than you realise...we hear of disagreements between scientists because they are actually rare rather than common. For instance no-one questions certain scientific facts e.g. black body radiation, elemental composition, chemical molarity, gravitational attraction between two sublight speed massive objects etc etc...the same is not true of astrology.
warrensson 2 years ago
Those who live and debate by sterile methods and acceptance of their findings by peers live in a box. Their research only serves to define the dimensions of that box which decreases in size with every close-minded scientist like you. No wonder it's rare that you would disagree. Very few have the courage to think beyond the methods and outside of the box. WAKE UP! Maybe if you did, you could use your knowledge to provide humanity with something more beneficial than a bevy of youtube comments.
kmjones623 2 years ago
"Those who live and debate by sterile methods "
Should we live and debate by infected methods?
"Live in a box"?
I live in a 3 bedroom house on a 1000m square property.
The confines of what is accepted by scientists is actually infinite...but it does have boundaries. Looking outside the box doesn't require courage but a reason.
With reghards to provding something useful to humanity, I teach Math and Science to high school students.
What do *you* do to benefit humanity?
warrensson 2 years ago
The most outstanding scientists were existentialists and have usually made their discoveries by diverting from the mainstream scientific body of thought and working with their intuition an rational thought , thus pioneering new developments , that is of course if you believe that intuition exists.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
No, new theoretical ground is made when observed facts conflict with currently accetped theories...for example, photons that are emitted by electrons have energies that are not continuously distributed but are quantised...it was believed that there were no constrictions upon the energy levels of photons but the discovery of quantum physics was that they are...otherwise existence would collapse in a flash of UV light.
warrensson 2 years ago
Non sequitur.
warrensson 2 years ago
praetendere !!
perdurabo3 2 years ago
"Only true reason understands there's no evidence for anything"
And what is your evidence for the truth of that?
Or indeed, is it true what you said?
warrensson 2 years ago
What would a person who can't even distinguish the astrological elements from the elements of Mendelejev's table know about that?
penshi 2 years ago 2
it is because I do distinguish between them that I raise it as an issue...I know that earth, wind, fire and water are NOT elemental building blocks of matter....the ancients were wrong about this...
warrensson 2 years ago
The four elements, just like the five elements in China, always had, and still have an esoteric meaning. They never dealt with matter for the matter. If you would have studied astrology and other ancient disciplines profoundly, you would have known. Their approach never was as materialistic as many materialistic (pseudo) researchers assume.
penshi 2 years ago
Pluto was discovered during the 20th century...how come its influence wasn't detected by astrologers much earlier than this?
warrensson 2 years ago
It is when a planet is discovered that it's influence comes in to play, e.g. plutonium and the development of nuclear power , oh and weapons too. Pluto is associated with transformation , death, sex, the masses of people, the two extremes of human behaviour , destruction or healing. Neptune , Uranus and Pluto are all modern planets . And it would take more than some comment boxes to illustrate how they come in to play in astrology. But the data is out there !
perdurabo3 2 years ago
You should state clearly that Tropical Astrolgers don't use any constellations whatsoever,,.but in Ptolemy's Tetrablios he is plainly using constellatins...
warrensson 2 years ago
The onus of proof is upon you. It is not for skeptics to disprove astrology it is for astrologers to prove astrology...wiki "onus of proof" for more information.
warrensson 2 years ago
The brain.
As an experiment...try thinking with your feet...give it a good minute and tell me how you get on,.
warrensson 2 years ago
Claiming to know the Truth on any subject is a clear indication of pitiable hauteur. Best to follow the sage words of Socrates: "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance."
kmjones623 2 years ago 3
You should study some more Socrates...particularly his work regarding logic.
warrensson 2 years ago
Warrensson, I find people who tell others what they should do to be particularly lacking in self-worth, which clouds their ability to discuss subjects with an open mind. Why don't you focus on what YOU should be doing with your own life that would make you feel fulfilled so you don't have to debate with us troglodytes?
kmjones623 2 years ago 2
I'm so glad I couldn't hear anything you were saying. You probably would have just displayed a complete ignorance on the subject. Astrology is one of the oldest sciences in human history, dating as far back as the Chaldeans in 6,000 BC, possibly earlier. I wonder which planet was responsible for the disintegration of your audio. My vote would be for the trickster, Mercury. Go Astrology!!!!!!!
kmjones623 2 years ago 4
And...what force is it that Mercury might emanate that would have this effect then eh?
Astrology was never a science...it predates science but has been rejected by science.
warrensson 2 years ago
That force would be called gravity. You are living in a solar system with celestial bodies that carry mass far greater than yours, thereby exerting an influence on your "celestial body". Astrology and astronomy were sister sciences for many years. Man sees himself as separate from nature and attempts to define its laws in order to conquer it. Man doesn't really need psychology or astrology to conquer each other, just a gun. Therefore these sciences are not given the credence of others.
kmjones623 2 years ago 3
The gravitational attraction between any two objects is directly proportional to the product of their masses divided by the square of the distance between the two objects.
The obstetrician/midwife that delivered you had exerted more gravitational attractive force upon you than the planet Jupiter.
warrensson 2 years ago
No one said Astrology works through the force of gravity. Your statement means nothing.
PurpleBulbous 2 years ago
wow, this guy is really stupid, what kind of shirt is that talking about astrology, bologna
PoloAquaLink 2 years ago
your an idiot
TRUGEM614 2 years ago
you want proof? watch: spotting signs of the zodiac.
garciaalvin3 2 years ago
what happened to this vid? The sounds messed up, all I hear is feedback/noise and it speeds through the whole thing in seconds
3rdEYEbeHolder 2 years ago 9
Same with me.
DarkenedClarity 2 years ago
Science : Knowledge gained through systematic study, a particular branch of knowledge.
perdurabo3 3 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"And how many astrologers do you happen to know ?"
The number of Astrologers that someone may or may not know is completely irrelevant to whether Astrology is real or not.
"that you can claim this person is like *all* astrologers"
That would be a gross generalisation wouldn't it? Somewhat like the gross generalisations about people being similar depending on their time and place of birth...
warrensson 3 years ago
If you knew the fine details of astrology you would realize that astrology is more keenly aware of individuality than other systems that attempt self examination. There are so many factors to be taken in to consideration, which is why I said Astrology impels not compels. And I never asked you how many astrologers do you know, must of been someone else.
perdurabo3 3 years ago 11
Astro believers mark my comments down but few of them attempt to debate them.
Not good enough.
Fair play to Perdurabo3 though for attempting but where are the others?
warrensson 2 years ago
Astrology impels, it does not compel.
perdurabo3 3 years ago
Which universities please?
warrensson 3 years ago
Which universities what ?
perdurabo3 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"We" get that...but we think it is the intellectual equivalent of concession and consequently intellectually dishonest to not admit that much.
Furthermore, we also get that you're not interested in evidence for your claims you're just going to believe what you want to believe regardless of what the facts of the matter might be.
warrensson 3 years ago
No I believe in what I believe because I have seen it work for myself and others. The facts are if you do not have applied knowledge of astrology you can't argue the details of it.
Would you assert that there is no evidence to validate psychology ??
perdurabo3 3 years ago
Go on then, place these examples of "Astrology working" before us so that we may examine their merits, or lack thereof.
warrensson 2 years ago
What claims would they be ?
perdurabo3 3 years ago
This approach is to sound theory what jumping up in the air and expecting to stay there is to flight...
warrensson 3 years ago
A theory only remains sound until the next theory evolves to disprove it.
perdurabo3 3 years ago 5
Theories remain sound until actual observed evidence that contradicts them is found. For example, Rutherford's finding that atoms have a nucleus with a huge amount, relatively, of space between the nucleus and the orbiting electron(s).
warrensson 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Mr Randi's Astrology test needs to be more robust. I, of course, agree with him but he needs to do a more thorough job...a much bigger test group for a start as well as a rigorous discussion of what is meant by certain words involved in astrological discussion.
warrensson 3 years ago
Hear Hear, that may be a bit of work for the cynics though, don't think they'd go for that.
Typical reply:
Oh no no no the onus is on the astrologer to explain every little detail, why should we have to do a little research to back up our convictions
perdurabo3 3 years ago
how come I can't hear what you're saying? it's all static
pnizzzi 3 years ago 4
nor do they profess to know how, simply that it has and does. There is still much in the scientific world that baffles, most physicians and surgeons would say that the appendix and tonsils are of little or no practical use to humans ad are not sure why we evolved with them, but science at some stage in the future will likely find a function that they have or had, and as with astrology the explicit mechanics of it can not and may never be discerned , that is not enough to dispense with it.
perdurabo3 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The fact of orbital precession is enough to dispense with Astrology.
warrensson 3 years ago
Is not. we allow for it.
perdurabo3 3 years ago 3
I tried to watch your commentary, but the video was messed up. It ran very very fast and there was white noise through most of what I could bear to watch.
But in response to something you posted in a follow up, astrology is a science of all life forms under the influence of a growing list of electromagnetic energies (or lack thereof), within the construct of time (the fourth dimension) therefore you cannot put it in a petri dish, stick it under a microscope and expect the same result.
wavepulse12 3 years ago
great video douchebag!
drumlord420 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i am a heron. i ahev a long neck and i pick fish out of the water w/ my beak. if you dont repost this video on 10 other videos i will fly into your kitchen tonight and make a mess of your pots and pans
ClickParker 3 years ago
very smart people came about astrology. scientists study astronomy and that is where astrology came from. astrology is actually the true bare basis of religion.
astrology is very rellivent dont know if spelt it right but.. astrology and astronomy aren't all about horoscopes buddy. i've been researching astrology, and so far I do believe in it, but I watched and considered your video and opinion didn't i. so don't be so ignorant
pnizzzi 3 years ago
pnizzin; You're wrong on so many fronts.
Very smart people ignore astrology.
Astronomy came from astrology.
Astrology is not relevant - it is superstition and there is no evidence to support claims made about it.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
Correction VERY SMUG PEOPLE IGNORE ASTROLOGY
perdurabo3 3 years ago 6
Do you include orbital precession in your astrological calculations or not?
warrensson 3 years ago
Which scientists, in particular, study Astrology?
warrensson 3 years ago
I think his brain fell out!!!
shah419 3 years ago
This guy talks about astrology in the same level He faces life. Futile..
The way I see, this guy desapproves everything not so cientific.
He talks about astrology and you can see he doesn't know nothing about the matter. Probably He's taking his opinion by comum magazzines.
This guy is a retarded and I hope his son be different.
This guy talks fast but it gives us no juice.
Sorry about my english but I'm not english.
Kidmann 3 years ago
Do you include orbital precession in your astrological calculations or not?
warrensson 3 years ago
You do not see it from the proper perspective.
The ancients used the positions of the stars to mark the months and change of seasons.
That's where the atributes come from.
GojinEdowara 3 years ago
"Thousands of years ago the ancients sought answers by looking to the heavens, but thanks to advances in knowledge rational beings realize the inanity of it all, meanwhile those who havent advanced their thinking, the astrologers, still look to the heavens, oblivious to the truth." Adam Peenum.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
What truth would that be then ?
perdurabo3 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I believe the quote from Adam is self evident. I think he is saying the answers are here, in front of you. All this nonsense about using made up stuff supposedly from heavenly readings is just superstition.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
I am a rational thinker, very much so, the fact remains that one will never know the merits of astrology unless they study it and apply it to themselves, whatever about anyone else.
perdurabo3 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The outcomes of astrology (say for instance the discussion between the client and the astrologer) are probably useful and fruitful in some respects.
My beef is with the fact that the methods used to get to that point are baseless and at worst fraud.
You are not rational in your thoughts, you just think you are. Like all astrologer buffs you justify what you believe against what you believe.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
I am a scientist, I have been trained to use critical thinking and base what I feel to be of value on the consistency of my results, as most other scientists do, After studying astrology for a long time and subsequently applying it I have got consistent results that have persuaded me of it's value, I doubt that unless a skeptic goes through the same process they will have much reason to observe the merits of astrology. Most professional astrologers do not know the " how " astrology works, cont.
perdurabo3 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Describe the simple tests that convinced you astrology is better than guesswork.
If you are a scientist then you are the first to proclaim it actually works, now provide some evidence.
I won't hold my breath.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
They were not tests as such but rather observations , an example is that I found people who had the sun or moon in the 12th house were likely to have experienced addictions of some type or were currently experiencing them, this was the case with all the people whose charts I cast who had sun in 1th house. This is just one small example. All the best to you. P
perdurabo3 3 years ago
Addictions of some kind! To alcohol, drugs, chocolate, cigarettes, shopping, nailbiting... wow there goes 99% of the population
A small number of observations is hardly valid to be able to say there are any conclusions. Samples sizes as large as 5.3 million have revealed no correlation between claimed traits and reality. If you allow yourself to be swayed by such "observations" you are missing the point entirely.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
No mainly alcohol and drugs, and these are observations over 20 years, this has absolutely nothing to do with 'traits'. Missing what point ? And they are conclusions no matter how irrational it may sound to you. As I said before an applied knowledge of astrology is needed in order to make a judgment, which creates a catch 22 scenario because people like yourself have already made up their minds about it, and regardless and are unlikely to change their opinions o matter what. Goodbye
perdurabo3 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Put together a paper on it & present it to a scientific forum. After the laughter dies down go over your notes to see where you might have stuffed up.
Applied knowledge of astrology is not required to query it or ask how it is tested. That is merely a barrier you guys put up as protection from the real world.
But not to worry, you can say goodbye when the going gets too tough & pretend real world rules don't apply to astrology.
As for changing my opinion, facts will do that every time.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
yawn zzzzzzzz
perdurabo3 3 years ago
Ah, so you quit because it is time for your Nanna nap?
I thought you'd cop out when given a real set of conditions to meet rather than the made up nonsense you judge by.
zzytrewq 3 years ago
No I can't argue a lot of the points if you don't understand what points I am trying to make and the context, and I have no intention of filling in the gaps for you. What made up nonsense would that be ? specifics please. Thank you.
perdurabo3 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Do you include orbital precession in your astrological calculations?
warrensson 3 years ago
No my friend , not for personal natal astrology.
perdurabo3 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
How do you account for the zodiacal signs being out by 24+ degrees then?
warrensson 3 years ago
You've never studied statistics formally have you?
warrensson 3 years ago
If there directed at me I'm not going to be interrogated by someone I don't know. I 'm sure you understand.
perdurabo3 3 years ago
1. You're in a public forum making comments that are publically available for debate.
2. I also understand that you lack the courage of your convictions.
warrensson 3 years ago
No I lack the inclination to answer your questions, that's all.
perdurabo3 3 years ago
Yeah, but that does not give you any entitlement to interrogate me!
perdurabo3 3 years ago
My astrology tutor was a fellow emeritus in Physics and Mathemathics in the most prestigious University in my country. There are many more like him, obviosly yourself or warrenson don't work in any of the most active areas of the scientific community , if so you would come across many open minded scientists . In fact the study of science opens the mind to in general , does not shut it down completely as it seems to have done with you two.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
I assume you make this up as you go along.
If you really did study science as you say then you'd know that astrology is baseless in its claims. I have tested it and it fails.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
Reall ? What test did you use . Did you construct and interpret a natal chart for anyone ? What potential qualities would you associate with for example , the moon in aquarius , in the twelfth house. You do need knowledge of a subject before you could even consider a method whereby you can test it. As I said besisdes myself my astrology tutor is a scientist , and so are many people I know who are also astrologers. You can assume what you want, I'd say you float through life on assumptioms
perdurabo3 2 years ago
If I used the methods you described it wouldn't work because astrologers continually say it can't be tested (except by other astrologers. LOL). Actually I send an astrologer the birth details of several people and then ask the astrologer to tell me which ones are having a very difficult time in life. I send them details of a few people who are severely handicapped.
They never score better than guess work.
Game set and match to the rational folk.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
So these " few people who are severely handicapped " give you their details with their knowledge and consent for you to do a " test on the validity of astrology " . Ha sounds very unlikely. And you don't have to be severely handicapped to have very difficult time in life, I think you'll find able bodied people are quite adept at it. And you have published your findings in which scientific journal ???????????????
perdurabo3 2 years ago
No I didn't bother with the consent. Well you see I lied a bit. I just send details of a bunch of normal people and tell the astrologer that 50% or so are severely handicapped. Works a treat. They going looking for stuff that isn't there, and find it!
I did actually send in one (handicapped) person's details (without their knowledge) and told the astrologer it was mine. You can't imagine how bad that reading was.
Publish it? Great idea! LOL.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
" Jutt send details of a bunch of people " la la la Strong smell of Bullshit ZZ.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
The only bullshit comes from your side of the fence. I've been posting for years trying to get answers on how astrology works (never given one scientifically sound response) - I have asked for evidence "it just works because I have used it for years" is the typical response. You guys proclaim it can't be tested then say it is accurate!! LOL
Whether you choose to believe I have sent details for testing is not my concern - I did and I have the results.
So how does it work?
Waiting...
zzytrewq 2 years ago
How does a psychologist reach their conclusions ?? By studying human behaviour and bnormal human behaviour. Pluto a planet associated with death , transformation of attidudes nd beliefs , healing , forcing change,affecting the masses of people and society and also associated with sex . At the momemt Pluto entered scorpio ( the sign it rule's ls and associated with all of the above ) Aids was clinically isolated, a disease that can be sexually transmitted or transmitted ...cont....
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Wow! Finding a relationship after the event! It is called confirmation bias and is how astrology and many of the pseudo-sciences work. You look for events that approximately align and then say one is actually related to the other.
So is there anything that says "watch out for monkeys" when you read the signs. LOL.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
As stated some of the basic things you need to learn and then apply to test the validity of astrology. Everything else is merely an opinion that you hold. and you have stated your opinion repetitively here.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Some of the basic things you would need to lern before applying it . The planets and energies and associations , the signs ,qualites, triplicities, elements , houses aspects, nodes, imum coeli , medium coeli , part of fortune, Ascendant, applying , retrograde, dignities , exaltations , detriments , benefic aspects, maleific aspects, decantes, degrees, geocentric, heliocentric, mutual reception , mutul application, midheaven , mid-points , declination , zodiacal longitude, and so on.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
You squawk like all astrologers. If you take you head out of your backside you'll find no articles published in reputable independent journals that explain the mechanisms of astrology, or why no astrologer has been able to actually do as claimed. Why you guys can't even agree if it's predictable (don't do that, because that is testable!); it comes across like any other faith based system. No evidence, belief in spite of facts to the contrary and lack of any science to back it up.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
Your integrity and the seriousness you take in your attempts really shine through.
What you said above I said about a year ago here. Again as stated you do not hve the knowledge to test it and have shown that your unwilling to seek it out. You have to be the one interpreting the chart , not some randomly picked astrologer, which I don't beleive you done, as a professional astrologer would only take a request first hand , not from asecond party. You are the one squawking weakly.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
Hahaha - standard reply from the astrologer's book of piss weak excuses "don't have the knowledge to test it".
I know bugger all about how a magician does his stuff but I can sure as hell find out if he really can saw a lady in half.
If I supply an astrologer with a birth date time and place and he tells me I "enjoy the outdoor life" but the birth details are of someone who actually states they hate the outdoors then by my reasoning that is a fail.
The "can't test" theory is so full of holes.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
You do not have the knowledge to test it - exactly , now I see the extent of your abiltity to " test " astrology, would you care to give me the name or a means of contact to this purported astrologer that you claim you have contacted, with their consent of course. Idon't see how you can reason on anything you have scant knowledge of..
perdurabo3 2 years ago
I asked a 3rd generation astrologer (YT) Chadow723 to give me his BEST example of the power and accuracy of an astrologer.
He cited the example of a women whose purse went astray and her astrologer said it may be returned, and it was. Amazing heh? 100% success. Then I said if it wasn't returned then it is still 100%, as the astrologer said "may". Chadow723 agreed it was ambiguous and he hadn't seen it.
Typical, you guys look for the hits and ignore the misses.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
I don't see what your grandma / granda has got to do with anything, but anyway would you ask Chadow723 whether I may contct him or not so I may get his version of events ??
perdurabo3 2 years ago
"I don't see what your grandma / granda has got to do with anything..." - so English isn't your first language - that explains a lot.
YT = YouTube. Chadow723 is his YT moniker. You surely must be aware of his fabulous pro-astrology videos.
You upset him by throwing facts and difficult questions and he blocks you. I got blocked. He is an arrogant beef head. We exchanged many pleasantries. He is an honest straight shooter so I'm sure his version of events will match mine.
Not.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
Your quote: "Idon't see how you can reason on anything you have scant knowledge of.. "
That is why I am unable to make you see reason with regards proper scientific testing, Forer effect etc.
You NEVER test astrology. Until an astrologer devises a fair test method I'm going to believe and argue the readings are a joke at best, and are just guesswork. Convince me otherwise.
Please give me the name of the article in Scientific American that explains astrology's workings, can't seem to find it.
zzytrewq 2 years ago
As stated before , and as warrenson to his credit mentioned wisely that some people need repitition , I will state it again astrology of all the systems that attempt self examination keenly recognises the individuality , and rather than being vague and generic is most personal and specific, but again you need experience of applied astrology to understand this.
perdurabo3 2 years ago
"...that some people need repitition" - honing in till the guesses are right?
I've got a ten page report from an astrologer (yes I baited him with someone else's birth details) that scored about 10% accuracy. It was reasonably specific and that is why I was able to score the hits and misses so clearly.
Numerous studies have shown no correlation between a person's traits and their sign. Show me otherwise.
zzytrewq 2 years ago