Loving piano music, I wanted to hear Rachmaninoff and Chopin mentioned, but your criteria is understandable. I personally find it hard to rank Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven. They're definitely the top 3, but all interchangeable. Again, that's just my opinion.
@myfairvanity Yes, there has been a lot of people arguing for the two runners up to be top, with the Bach aficionados being the most aggressive in their support of Bach.
@cmach7 There are many others I could have mentioned, including those two. Verdi, like Puccini, was primarily a composer of operas and therefore was ruled out because his range was limited. I love some of Shubert, but I don't think he compares with Beethoven, Mozart or others of the period.
Well done! Beethoven, Bach, and Vivaldi are some of my favorites, although I did expect to see Schubert. I also hold a favoritsm with Orff and Weiniawski. What is your opinion of Weiniawski?
@milofan818 I don't know enough of Weiniawski to comment, but that is an indication of why he isn't on the list because if he was more widely appreciated and influential I would be more familiar with his work.
Historical significance; late Liszt is basically the father and inventor of impressionism and early atonal, see pieces like Les Jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este and Bagatelle Sans tonalité.
Depth of Range input; Liszt is most famous for his piano works, no doubt, but he made several orchestrated works based on poems and stories, See The dante Symphony, Faust Symphony, Mazeppa. He made organ works and transcriptions et cetera. You will probably find every 19th century musical input in Liszt
I really can't take you seriously, simply because I remember me once stating legitimate arguments about how Liszt should be in the top 10, and all you did was removing my comment as soon as possible and insulting me over a PM how I am "A little brat".
Liszt would score so much higher than, for example Debussy on your criteria.
Originality; Liszt invented the symphonic poem, he made a few not-so-well known extremely original works like" A holt költö szerelme" and influencal new piano techniques.
@OldGrumpyGuy Music can only be judged solely through personal opinions and criteria. Trying come up with a “Top 10” list that can be widely agreed objectively is useless and contradicting, although it seems fun. :D In case some people are confused.
How does Rachmaninoff not have a large range? He wrote several pieces for orchestra, cello, violin, and i seem to remember a viola. He also wrote several choral pieces and many art songs. Although he did write many pieces for piano, his works went far beyond that. I also looked it up and he wrote many operas.
Not to sound snobby, but Rachmaninoff and Liszt are noticeably excluded. Also, what are your thoughts on modern composers like John Williams and Phillip Glass?
@realityistheillusion Rachmaninoff and Liszt are primarily composers of piano music. They do not have the depth, range, originality, influence or output of the other composers on my list. Philip Glass, like John Adams, sticks to a formula that has long grown tiresome and outdated. John Williams is at least honest but I don't think his works rank him among the greats.
Tchakovsky mentioned in a passing fancy? The guy who fused western and nationalist music together providing a unique style that profoundly influenced many of the mentioned here after. A guy who is created a masterpiece in every genre (some often controversial) and popularised a couple of genres (one of which he remains unmatched in)? The russian who is only second to Beethoven in demand amongst todays listeners and is widely belived to have composed most of the most memorable melodies ever?
@spadge1979 If you consider my criteria for the top 10, you should see why Tchaikovsky didn't make the top 10. He was not original in any genre and the range of his output is nowhere near that of Mozart, Bach or Beethoven.
@OldGrumpyGuy on the contrary tchaikovsky sweated originality in his very style by bridging the gap between western and eastern influences. Some could argue by this very nature he was the worlds most 'international' composer. His worldy themes expressed in his ballets alone back provide the evidence as does the popularity during his lifetime. And on the subject of ballets- he is considered the most important composer in the genre making the arrangement symphonic, diverse and memorable.
@OldGrumpyGuy as i dont get much space to argue a point enough.His range was incredibly wide for a composer whos output was relatively small when compared to the big three.He produced so many masterworks across pretty much every major genre and when you take in to account the number of masterworks he produced as a proportion of his output, im sure yourll find its a far higher percentage then that of Vivaldi, Gershwin, Bach and even Mozart (as the latter 2 produced many just for the sake of it).
I must respectfully disagree with the exxagerated value put on originality. such a yearning for newness for its own sake is the very reason why classical music has been going downhill ever since it reached its greatest heights in the 18th century. for me, what counts most of all is who has written the most great music. in that sense, Antonio Vivaldi has to rank among the greatest of composers, since basically everything he ever wrote was great, and he wrote so much of it, too
@orioleflyer No need to calling names. I just wanna give my opinion. I did not say anything disrespectful, so I expect you to treat me the same. Beside, it's all about taste.
I think some of them should not have made the list. I mean, Antonio Vivaldi? Richard Strauss? Handel? I personally think you should add in some more modern composers, JOHN CAGE (avant-garde), Steve Reich (minimalism), Arnold Schoenberg (serialism) come to mind. And seriously, you should, should, should, add Stravinsky.
Tchakovsky mentioned in a passing fancy? The guy who fused western and nationalist music together providing a unique style that profoundly influenced many of the mentioned here after. A guy who is created a masterpiece in every genre (some often controversial) and popularised a couple of genres (one of which he remains unmatched in)? The russian who is only second to Beethoven in demand amongst todays listeners and is widely belived to have composed most of the most memorable melodies ever?
Dear OldGrumpyGuy, I do not know if you are still responding but since I cannot go to bed being upset , I ought to raise a serious objection your honor.
Pardon my broken english - I am french - and besides eating "escargots" and "foie gras" I also appreciate the english composers as for example John Dowland. However I can't allow you to sort Gershwin (who I like a lot) in the top ten composers simply according to your own requirements. Aaron Coplan fits most of them.Thank you and bonne nuit.
@Papeeloo1 I like Aaron Copland, but I think Gershwin had a much broader influence, capturing the sounds of 20th Century America more than any other composer
@OldGrumpyGuy Ok I give up ( it is not that hard) I would like to tell you how impressed I am by your contribution to the world of music. I'll watch your next top 10 of non-classical musiciens who also are influencial (rock n'roll, jazz, dance music, etc..)
hehe, I don't think I could make a top ten composers list... there's so many people from all over the world and throughout time who've made music that's outstanding and beautiful :)
I find his 6th rather overwrought (and not particularly original), the second ok, while the 5th (possibly his best) was spoiled for me by sitting through the interminable "Death in Venice". In my 11-20 ranking I would probably include Prokovief, Brahms, and some of the others I mention in this video. Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the series.
I would like to ask you what do you think about the romanian composers(particulary George Enescu). Also, what do you think about Dvorak's, Bruckner's, Sibelius's, Shostakovich's and Skrjabin's symphonies?(I haven't heard much, and that's why I like to know your opinion). Thank you very much:)
Acoording to Mahler himself, he was the only Composer who had real 'progression' since Beethoven and Wagner. The 150th anniversary issue of Gramophone is out this month and has Mahler on the frontpage and inquires into "What his symphonies mean, by the world's leading Mahler conductors." It's a nice read.
Any top 10 list of composers that doesn't include Brahms and Tchaikovsky is not credible. The other notables you left off are debatable either way although Schubert, whom you ignore, looms large as well.
Gershwin embodies the 20th Century more than any other composer, and was a total original in the way he drew together all the strands of modern city life
I would have to say Alkan is one of my particular favourite composers along with Rachmaninoff. However, I understand neither of them composed a great amount of work nor made a huge influence on their contemporaries. (even though Alkan was perhaps the most original for his time and a long time to come) I just love the cold russian rich melodies of Rachmaninoff and the ambitiousness and virtuosity of Alkan, but I guess they just couldn't cut it in the end.
I enjoyed your composer countdown and share your ranking of the top three. There will, of course, be differences of opinion as to originality and influence. As for those composers who didn't make it to the top ten, I'm glad that Mendelssohn at least came close. He was probably the most multi-talented and precocious of all the composers and he also revived interest in Bach. But how can you possibly say that Tchaikovsky wasn't original enough?
Tchaikovsky, like Brahms, were really carrying on with the vocabulary handed down by Haydn and Mozart. That's not to say they did not compose some great music.
No, in a purely subjective top ten I would have included Prokofiev, and possibly Aaron Copeland, Elgar and Vaughn Williams, along with Brahms, and I would have had Richard Strauss and Haydn higher.
I remember play Mendelsohn's Overture For Band in my All County...great piece of music but it was so hard getting it down...at least for us 11th and 12th graders :P
He is one of my favorite composers of all time, just because of how incredibly angry and hyper all of his songs seem. Not to mention the music is well written, at least the ones I've read.
NB/ despite your rigid criteria you also delve into others in your analysis -ie. emotion, listenability. Here would be my criteria(in no order)- Ability/originality in: -Melody -Harmony -Orchestration -Counterpoint -Performing/technique -Form/structure Also, in: -developing genres -Influencing styles/schools i.e. the isms. -range -quantity -historical influence There are probably others which I am forgetting, but these would be my general criteria.
My top 10 is not well thought out? Unfortunately I can't justify my views very well in 500 characters.
I'm afraid I find your criteria slightly vague. Range, historical influence and prolificity are all straightforward, yet the most important factor -imo originality, can be taken in many different ways. You also mentioned the "Je ne sais quoi" factor - very musical of you =/.
Continued in the next post. Feel free to delete them if you feel they are spamming your vids.
You are free to express your opinions. At least you do it in a civilized way, so I will not delete them simply because I don't necessarily agree with them
Schoenberg cont'd - Though I dislike serialism, one cannot doubt it that is it not original. It has larged influenced composition since. Decent range of works also.
You make no mention of music from the Renaissance and early Baroque, which is a shame, because there are several composers during these periods which are highly innovative, are prolific and have a wide range of composition.
Also neglected is the romantic period, of which you only mention transitionaries to and from.
In response to your opinion on Brahms:
though Brahms was a musical conservative, it is not the same to say he lacked originality. He was the first real neoclassicist - continued..
Well firstly I say thank you, I found your videos highly entertaining, and your personality hilariously eccentric. I'm guessing that when you say that "tough luck, its the truth" it is in jest. Out of curiousity, are you a musician, or someone who just appreciates classical music?
My response (and in my opinion, the rightful top 10 follow this post)
I feel your analysis of Brahms has fallen into the oft-spouted historical miscalculation of Brahms as a stagnant traditionalist. Schoenberg himself said that his ideas of tonal serialism evolved from Brahms's developing variation. I would recommend Brahms's biography by Jan Swafford. Also, listen to the intermezzo op117 (2)
i am not an expert at all . frankly but since my childhood and till now i consider Carl-orff Carmina Burana the ( O Fortuna ) the greatest musical symphonies ever written i believe that is enough to include Carl-Orff into the top 10 . but any way you have done an amazing job and thank you for it
About this video, I must say that, though I can handle it, I feel a vacuum that would have been filled by simply mentioning the composer that moves me the most: Henry Purcell. He died very young, so we can't see how he would have evolved but, though I am not an expert, I'd say that maybe he was above some of your selected 10.
Are you sure? Henry Purcell wrote opera and many amazing instrumental pieces, as well as myriad secular and sacred songs, many of them severely underrated. His ritornelli alone would place him on a par with Bach. I do believe he is better and "deeper" than Handel, Haydn, Gershwin, Debussy or Richard Strauss. Is this a cultural sacrilege?
Purcell did not have the influence that the others did, and nobody is "better" or "deeper" than Haydn, who above everyone else was the father of classical music and the biggest influence on Mozart and Beethoven.
This is rather interesting. I've never thought of composers in "originality" and "depth", I've just preferred whichever music I prefer. But I agree highly with your final choices. On another note, have you heard of a composer named C.V. Alkan? I quite enjoy his music, even if it doesn't score highly in some of the criteria.
I have a question for this entertaining teacher of classical music. Concerning Johannes Brahms' music, does our teacher here think that Brahms' music belongs more in the 18th century or 19th century? If he did not know when Brahms lived, would he think he lived in the 1700s or 1800s?
I think that, like all music that becomes part of the classical repertoire, Brahms' music was timeless, even though it might have been anchored in the vocabulary of Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven.
very interesting. the reason i ask this in the first place, is because i have a bias against any music written by musical composers born after beethoven. but if brahms' post-beethoven birth was just an accident of nature, and that he really belongs in the 18th century, then i may consider him as somebody worth listening to
With all due respect, nakedBison69 considers the ten greatest composers to be the following: 1. Mozart (1756) 2. Beethoven (1770) 3. Bach (1685) 4. Haydn (1732) 5. Handel (1685) 6. Rameau (1683) 7. Palestrina (1525) 8. Purcell (1659) 9. Josquin (1450) 10. Vivaldi (1678)
E.S. Posthumus remind me in most of the pieces I have heard of theirs of Carmina Burana with a lot of timpani added. But I like some of it. Hans Zimmer has done some fine work, but as a movie composer I prefer Maurice Jarre (even though he is French!). I particularly like his barn-raising music in Witness (though I prefer the symphonic version by Nic Raine rather than the synthesised movie version).
What happened to the two 'shoes'? Both showed originality, depth and range (particularly range) of output, and durability if you ask me. Their influence and significance might have been relatively modest, but Schubert in particular was far ahead of his time (just consider his last two symphonies or his last sonata, or his impromptus).
Thanks for the series and the nod to Orff (and I agree besides ''that cool music from Excalibur' there IS little to say abt. him). I really need to check out Brahms more. BTW, did you like the "Rhapsody in rivets'? I found it riveting :)
Great Series! Thanks for doing it! I enjoyed it very much! I hope you'll do more series. :-) Perhaps literature, art or the blues? ... or maybe even country music? ;-)
Not country music, no. Although there are some country songs I like, it is not a genre I generally relate to. Art, maybe. Literature is too broad, although I might do a list of my favorite novels of all time.
I like Schubert. I visited his former home in Vienna. I am glad you mentioned him. But I don't think he stands up to the other composers on the list.
where is Barber? I think that gershwin did not belong in the top 10. I would have removed him and put wagner at 8 and Strauss at 9 and maybe Mendelssohn, Tchaicovsky or Stravinsky at 10
Apart from his Adagio for Strings, Barber did not have much of an impact and he was not original. composing in the traditional vocabulary, as did Tchaikovsky. I have already given my reasons why Stravinsky did not make it onto the list.
I suggest making a list of the most overrated composers. I imagine it would be quite fun for you to speak out against composers that are annoying, as well as all the fans who love your humorous rants.
I think all the serialists/minimalist are bound by a musical straitjacket that inhibits genuine and free-ranging expression. Serialism/minimalism represents a kind of musical/artistic fascism with an extremely limited vocabulary. It announces itself in dull slogans
Sorry Karoloandria, I deleted your last comment by mistake. John Cage is a poser whose pretentiousness is only exceeded by the idiots who pretend to like his non-music.
I have to admit that I was initially disappointed when you eliminated Stravinsky at the outset of the series, but I agree that his works lacked the range criterion. I'll be sorry to see this series end, but I hope to enjoy more of Mozart's music while you post it.
I really enjoyed the Brahms! It's a beautiful symphony. The Hebrides is fantastic as well. I would like to thank you for all this series. Have a great day!
Loving piano music, I wanted to hear Rachmaninoff and Chopin mentioned, but your criteria is understandable. I personally find it hard to rank Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven. They're definitely the top 3, but all interchangeable. Again, that's just my opinion.
myfairvanity 1 month ago
@myfairvanity Yes, there has been a lot of people arguing for the two runners up to be top, with the Bach aficionados being the most aggressive in their support of Bach.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 month ago
Dvorak is the most underrated of all time, and Wagner and Strauss are the most overrated. FACT.
BnkWrATMt1ts 4 months ago
@BnkWrATMt1ts Not a fact. Merely your opinion. Although I agree with you about Wagner. But Dvorak didn't have anywhere near the range of the top ten
OldGrumpyGuy 4 months ago
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fierydog 5 months ago
@fierydog What a silly comment. Bugger off.
OldGrumpyGuy 5 months ago
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fierydog 5 months ago
I thought for sure Stravinsky would be so up there... Then again, not many people know about him other than from the rite of spring and firebird.
baconpatrol1 6 months ago
How about Franz Schubert and Giuseppe Verdi?
cmach7 6 months ago
@cmach7 There are many others I could have mentioned, including those two. Verdi, like Puccini, was primarily a composer of operas and therefore was ruled out because his range was limited. I love some of Shubert, but I don't think he compares with Beethoven, Mozart or others of the period.
OldGrumpyGuy 6 months ago
Well done! Beethoven, Bach, and Vivaldi are some of my favorites, although I did expect to see Schubert. I also hold a favoritsm with Orff and Weiniawski. What is your opinion of Weiniawski?
milofan818 7 months ago
@milofan818 I don't know enough of Weiniawski to comment, but that is an indication of why he isn't on the list because if he was more widely appreciated and influential I would be more familiar with his work.
OldGrumpyGuy 7 months ago
What did you think of Ravel?
looney1023 8 months ago
@looney1023 Ravel did a lot of interesting music
OldGrumpyGuy 8 months ago
I guess I would mention Dvorak... What do you think
MrSnorlax22 10 months ago
@MrSnorlax22 Yes, Dvorak is certainly worth a ,ention
OldGrumpyGuy 10 months ago
Who is this man ?????? Did he study in anything related to music and if so where??
dansertoujoursdanser 11 months ago
Who is this man ?????? Did he study in music and if so where???
dansertoujoursdanser 11 months ago
do you love john lennon?
benjosephcuyacot 1 year ago
@benjosephcuyacot Yes, I like a lot of the Beatles music
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
And you are saying how we can't handle the truth, most likely it's you who can't
FranzLisztian 1 year ago
Influence; I already covered the impressionism and early atonal parts as well as the musical inventions so I am not going to bother with this part.
Durability; Not relevant the least
FranzLisztian 1 year ago
Historical significance; late Liszt is basically the father and inventor of impressionism and early atonal, see pieces like Les Jeux d'eau à la Villa d'Este and Bagatelle Sans tonalité.
Depth of Range input; Liszt is most famous for his piano works, no doubt, but he made several orchestrated works based on poems and stories, See The dante Symphony, Faust Symphony, Mazeppa. He made organ works and transcriptions et cetera. You will probably find every 19th century musical input in Liszt
FranzLisztian 1 year ago
I really can't take you seriously, simply because I remember me once stating legitimate arguments about how Liszt should be in the top 10, and all you did was removing my comment as soon as possible and insulting me over a PM how I am "A little brat".
Liszt would score so much higher than, for example Debussy on your criteria.
Originality; Liszt invented the symphonic poem, he made a few not-so-well known extremely original works like" A holt költö szerelme" and influencal new piano techniques.
FranzLisztian 1 year ago
I was wondering what you think of Schubert? I find his music on par with Mozart in terms of beauty and quality of listening.
TheJzero11 1 year ago
@TheJzero11 I like a lot of Shubert, but I don't think he's on a par with Mozart
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy Music can only be judged solely through personal opinions and criteria. Trying come up with a “Top 10” list that can be widely agreed objectively is useless and contradicting, although it seems fun. :D In case some people are confused.
kevin17ym 1 year ago
Stravinsky? No range? lol...
OpusOneTwoFive 1 year ago
How does Rachmaninoff not have a large range? He wrote several pieces for orchestra, cello, violin, and i seem to remember a viola. He also wrote several choral pieces and many art songs. Although he did write many pieces for piano, his works went far beyond that. I also looked it up and he wrote many operas.
phantomfn8 1 year ago
@phantomfn8 And how many of these operas etc are still performed these days on a regular basis? And who did he influence as a composer?
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy Um dude, Rachmoninoff should be in the top 3 of the greats, His songs are very complicated yet Beautiful,
alex21398 1 year ago
@alex21398 look at the other comments on this issue
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy - Well done series! I would like to think Sibelius would rank highly given your criteria. What do you think?
MrSpinozistic 1 year ago
@MrSpinozistic Sibelius produced some interesting work, but his range was rather limited
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
Not to sound snobby, but Rachmaninoff and Liszt are noticeably excluded. Also, what are your thoughts on modern composers like John Williams and Phillip Glass?
realityistheillusion 1 year ago
@realityistheillusion Rachmaninoff and Liszt are primarily composers of piano music. They do not have the depth, range, originality, influence or output of the other composers on my list. Philip Glass, like John Adams, sticks to a formula that has long grown tiresome and outdated. John Williams is at least honest but I don't think his works rank him among the greats.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@realityistheillusion Pure shit in comparison with the great ones. Rachmaninov is overrated too and Liszt great but non in the top 20
vinciano 1 year ago
what about shubert?
oliverotcasek 1 year ago
@oliverotcasek Schubert wrote some beautiful music but his output, originality and influence do not compare to others in the top 10.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
i'd take umbrage at tchaikovsky not being in the top 10, but since brahms didn't make it either it's all good. haha.
otherjoe1234 1 year ago
Tchakovsky mentioned in a passing fancy? The guy who fused western and nationalist music together providing a unique style that profoundly influenced many of the mentioned here after. A guy who is created a masterpiece in every genre (some often controversial) and popularised a couple of genres (one of which he remains unmatched in)? The russian who is only second to Beethoven in demand amongst todays listeners and is widely belived to have composed most of the most memorable melodies ever?
spadge1979 1 year ago
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spadge1979 1 year ago
@spadge1979 If you consider my criteria for the top 10, you should see why Tchaikovsky didn't make the top 10. He was not original in any genre and the range of his output is nowhere near that of Mozart, Bach or Beethoven.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy on the contrary tchaikovsky sweated originality in his very style by bridging the gap between western and eastern influences. Some could argue by this very nature he was the worlds most 'international' composer. His worldy themes expressed in his ballets alone back provide the evidence as does the popularity during his lifetime. And on the subject of ballets- he is considered the most important composer in the genre making the arrangement symphonic, diverse and memorable.
spadge1979 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy as i dont get much space to argue a point enough.His range was incredibly wide for a composer whos output was relatively small when compared to the big three.He produced so many masterworks across pretty much every major genre and when you take in to account the number of masterworks he produced as a proportion of his output, im sure yourll find its a far higher percentage then that of Vivaldi, Gershwin, Bach and even Mozart (as the latter 2 produced many just for the sake of it).
spadge1979 1 year ago
Why not Liszt? He was very original, he was important for Wagner and Strauss, he had a great range of output.
What are your arguments for not putting him in the list?
nmvdw 1 year ago
I must respectfully disagree with the exxagerated value put on originality. such a yearning for newness for its own sake is the very reason why classical music has been going downhill ever since it reached its greatest heights in the 18th century. for me, what counts most of all is who has written the most great music. in that sense, Antonio Vivaldi has to rank among the greatest of composers, since basically everything he ever wrote was great, and he wrote so much of it, too
nakedBison69 1 year ago
@orioleflyer No need to calling names. I just wanna give my opinion. I did not say anything disrespectful, so I expect you to treat me the same. Beside, it's all about taste.
alciefrederic 1 year ago
I think some of them should not have made the list. I mean, Antonio Vivaldi? Richard Strauss? Handel? I personally think you should add in some more modern composers, JOHN CAGE (avant-garde), Steve Reich (minimalism), Arnold Schoenberg (serialism) come to mind. And seriously, you should, should, should, add Stravinsky.
alciefrederic 1 year ago
What was your view on Gustav Holst? With the planets?
irishcub1324 1 year ago
I didnt find Tchaikovsky in the list.?
ravikumardro 1 year ago
IS CHOPIN EVEN MENTIONED?!?
franky124578 1 year ago
@franky124578 Have you actually watcfhed the video? Chopin is mentioned within the first 30 seconds.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Tchakovsky mentioned in a passing fancy? The guy who fused western and nationalist music together providing a unique style that profoundly influenced many of the mentioned here after. A guy who is created a masterpiece in every genre (some often controversial) and popularised a couple of genres (one of which he remains unmatched in)? The russian who is only second to Beethoven in demand amongst todays listeners and is widely belived to have composed most of the most memorable melodies ever?
spadge1979 1 year ago
@franky124578 i know
locknes2008 1 year ago
yeah chopin i think his music is ok not the best som pieces in the begining it sounds he put a bunch of notes 2gether but i lov som his music
Agomongo1235 1 year ago
How could you forget Frederic Chopin? That's a shame.
souljahminusbeatsdeb 1 year ago
@souljahminusbeatsdeb Have you considered the criteria I used? Chopin is basically a composer for the piano.
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
Dear OldGrumpyGuy, I do not know if you are still responding but since I cannot go to bed being upset , I ought to raise a serious objection your honor.
Pardon my broken english - I am french - and besides eating "escargots" and "foie gras" I also appreciate the english composers as for example John Dowland. However I can't allow you to sort Gershwin (who I like a lot) in the top ten composers simply according to your own requirements. Aaron Coplan fits most of them.Thank you and bonne nuit.
Papeeloo1 1 year ago
@Papeeloo1 I like Aaron Copland, but I think Gershwin had a much broader influence, capturing the sounds of 20th Century America more than any other composer
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
@OldGrumpyGuy Ok I give up ( it is not that hard) I would like to tell you how impressed I am by your contribution to the world of music. I'll watch your next top 10 of non-classical musiciens who also are influencial (rock n'roll, jazz, dance music, etc..)
It'll make more people happier. Regards.
Papeeloo1 1 year ago
@Papeeloo1 Thanks
OldGrumpyGuy 1 year ago
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PakrerGM64 1 year ago
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PakrerGM64 1 year ago
Plus I'd probably include alot of composers others might scoff at.
DarkZekeX 2 years ago
hehe, I don't think I could make a top ten composers list... there's so many people from all over the world and throughout time who've made music that's outstanding and beautiful :)
DarkZekeX 2 years ago
The Top 10 was an enjoyable lecture indeed. I'm curious about what the Top 20 would look like...
Also, I'm curious as to what you think of Gustav Mahler. Especially his 2nd, 5th and 6th Symphonies.
blacksundog 2 years ago
I find his 6th rather overwrought (and not particularly original), the second ok, while the 5th (possibly his best) was spoiled for me by sitting through the interminable "Death in Venice". In my 11-20 ranking I would probably include Prokovief, Brahms, and some of the others I mention in this video. Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the series.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
@OldGrumpyGuy
I would like to ask you what do you think about the romanian composers(particulary George Enescu). Also, what do you think about Dvorak's, Bruckner's, Sibelius's, Shostakovich's and Skrjabin's symphonies?(I haven't heard much, and that's why I like to know your opinion). Thank you very much:)
AlfaLight 1 year ago
Acoording to Mahler himself, he was the only Composer who had real 'progression' since Beethoven and Wagner. The 150th anniversary issue of Gramophone is out this month and has Mahler on the frontpage and inquires into "What his symphonies mean, by the world's leading Mahler conductors." It's a nice read.
blacksundog 2 years ago
Any top 10 list of composers that doesn't include Brahms and Tchaikovsky is not credible. The other notables you left off are debatable either way although Schubert, whom you ignore, looms large as well.
0812820 2 years ago
I'm not going over this ground again. go away.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
May I ask what are your favourite musical pieces from each of the top 10 composers?:)
AlfaLight 2 years ago
There are too many to name
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
why No Mahler?! THe greatest Romantic!!!
wjsado 2 years ago
Beethoven - no. 1 Composer
Liszt - no. 1 Pianist/composer
MusicIsMyLife6991 2 years ago
why?
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Well, Liszt no. 1 pianist you can't deny. Though i could take back the beethoven no. 1 and put Mozart cos I have to admit, he WAS such a prodigy.
MusicIsMyLife6991 2 years ago
Gershwin greater than Schubert or Wagner, Sure.
hamishmichie 2 years ago
Gershwin embodies the 20th Century more than any other composer, and was a total original in the way he drew together all the strands of modern city life
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Comment removed
hamishmichie 2 years ago 2
I would have to say Alkan is one of my particular favourite composers along with Rachmaninoff. However, I understand neither of them composed a great amount of work nor made a huge influence on their contemporaries. (even though Alkan was perhaps the most original for his time and a long time to come) I just love the cold russian rich melodies of Rachmaninoff and the ambitiousness and virtuosity of Alkan, but I guess they just couldn't cut it in the end.
HandyTheXxxX 2 years ago
Hello Mr. Grumpy,
I enjoyed your composer countdown and share your ranking of the top three. There will, of course, be differences of opinion as to originality and influence. As for those composers who didn't make it to the top ten, I'm glad that Mendelssohn at least came close. He was probably the most multi-talented and precocious of all the composers and he also revived interest in Bach. But how can you possibly say that Tchaikovsky wasn't original enough?
Marzipancat 2 years ago
Tchaikovsky, like Brahms, were really carrying on with the vocabulary handed down by Haydn and Mozart. That's not to say they did not compose some great music.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
May I ask if you had selected the top 10 subjectively, would the list be the same?
mi6govuk 2 years ago
No, in a purely subjective top ten I would have included Prokofiev, and possibly Aaron Copeland, Elgar and Vaughn Williams, along with Brahms, and I would have had Richard Strauss and Haydn higher.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
@OldGrumpyGuy
But wasn't Brahms considered Beethoven's 'successor'? For example, his first symphony is sometimes described as Beethoven's 10th.
AlfaLight 2 years ago
Exactly. That says it all. A great composer but not original.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
what about Sir Edward Elgar
Coixxman 2 years ago
I particularly like Elgar's Enigma Variations.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
I remember play Mendelsohn's Overture For Band in my All County...great piece of music but it was so hard getting it down...at least for us 11th and 12th graders :P
armagedon607 2 years ago
Heheh, I guess Shostakovich is too modern then?
He is one of my favorite composers of all time, just because of how incredibly angry and hyper all of his songs seem. Not to mention the music is well written, at least the ones I've read.
baconpatrol1 2 years ago
Woops, just realised i hadn't put Haydn in my top 10, he would be my no #4
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
well at least we agree on one placing!
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
would you specify what you mean by "everything else", do these things form any part of the criteria you mentioned?
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
There are many composers of the modern school that pursue originality at the cost of everything else.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
My top 10 is not well thought out? Unfortunately I can't justify my views very well in 500 characters.
I'm afraid I find your criteria slightly vague. Range, historical influence and prolificity are all straightforward, yet the most important factor -imo originality, can be taken in many different ways. You also mentioned the "Je ne sais quoi" factor - very musical of you =/.
Continued in the next post. Feel free to delete them if you feel they are spamming your vids.
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
You are free to express your opinions. At least you do it in a civilized way, so I will not delete them simply because I don't necessarily agree with them
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Schoenberg cont'd - Though I dislike serialism, one cannot doubt it that is it not original. It has larged influenced composition since. Decent range of works also.
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
Everybody has their own personal list, but most (like yours) are not really well thought out and are based on purely subjective criteria.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
You make no mention of music from the Renaissance and early Baroque, which is a shame, because there are several composers during these periods which are highly innovative, are prolific and have a wide range of composition.
Also neglected is the romantic period, of which you only mention transitionaries to and from.
In response to your opinion on Brahms:
though Brahms was a musical conservative, it is not the same to say he lacked originality. He was the first real neoclassicist - continued..
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
Well firstly I say thank you, I found your videos highly entertaining, and your personality hilariously eccentric. I'm guessing that when you say that "tough luck, its the truth" it is in jest. Out of curiousity, are you a musician, or someone who just appreciates classical music?
My response (and in my opinion, the rightful top 10 follow this post)
thisshirtisblacknot 2 years ago
The first three are well known, but the others not so, And it still does not add up to a large or varied body of work.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Rachmaninov?
DudermanGG 2 years ago
Rachmaninov was basically a composer for the piano and did not have the range and output of the top 10/
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
I wonder, is Grieg or Korsakov good enough for the top ten list of people who didn't make it. . .hmmm. . .
JoJoKenn94 2 years ago
I feel your analysis of Brahms has fallen into the oft-spouted historical miscalculation of Brahms as a stagnant traditionalist. Schoenberg himself said that his ideas of tonal serialism evolved from Brahms's developing variation. I would recommend Brahms's biography by Jan Swafford. Also, listen to the intermezzo op117 (2)
edvard115 2 years ago
why not Chopin
you ever heard nocturne 1 in b-flat minor?!
Rockwildon 2 years ago
range
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
i am not an expert at all . frankly but since my childhood and till now i consider Carl-orff Carmina Burana the ( O Fortuna ) the greatest musical symphonies ever written i believe that is enough to include Carl-Orff into the top 10 . but any way you have done an amazing job and thank you for it
ali0the0nazi 2 years ago
Dear professor: I hope you are not mad at me.
About this video, I must say that, though I can handle it, I feel a vacuum that would have been filled by simply mentioning the composer that moves me the most: Henry Purcell. He died very young, so we can't see how he would have evolved but, though I am not an expert, I'd say that maybe he was above some of your selected 10.
xensboy 2 years ago
Henry Purcell might have been a fine composer, but he did not have the depth and range in his work of the composers in my top ten list.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Are you sure? Henry Purcell wrote opera and many amazing instrumental pieces, as well as myriad secular and sacred songs, many of them severely underrated. His ritornelli alone would place him on a par with Bach. I do believe he is better and "deeper" than Handel, Haydn, Gershwin, Debussy or Richard Strauss. Is this a cultural sacrilege?
xensboy 2 years ago
Purcell did not have the influence that the others did, and nobody is "better" or "deeper" than Haydn, who above everyone else was the father of classical music and the biggest influence on Mozart and Beethoven.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Comment removed
xensboy 2 years ago
Nobody could describe him as monotonous. He was the most original and creative composer.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Why not Prokofiev?
He has written so many excellent pieces. Listen to it; toccatas, concerts, suggestions, the dance of the Knight, etc. etc. It's all so great!
MathijsGiltjes1993 2 years ago
he is one of the greats, but did not have the breadth and range of the others in the top ten.
OldGrumpyGuy 2 years ago
Mahler should have at least made it on this list, if not number 1 on the top ten list, but I'm not going to argue
SecretJudge 3 years ago
Mainly that, and also because although he was innovative and created some great piano music, he was not as original as the others in the top ten.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
originality, range and breadth of output, influence on other composers
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
This is rather interesting. I've never thought of composers in "originality" and "depth", I've just preferred whichever music I prefer. But I agree highly with your final choices. On another note, have you heard of a composer named C.V. Alkan? I quite enjoy his music, even if it doesn't score highly in some of the criteria.
mickyj300x 3 years ago
I used to listen a lot to Rodrigo and Villa Lobos when I was younger.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
I have a question for this entertaining teacher of classical music. Concerning Johannes Brahms' music, does our teacher here think that Brahms' music belongs more in the 18th century or 19th century? If he did not know when Brahms lived, would he think he lived in the 1700s or 1800s?
nakedBison69 3 years ago
I think that, like all music that becomes part of the classical repertoire, Brahms' music was timeless, even though it might have been anchored in the vocabulary of Mozart, Haydn and Beethoven.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
but i mean, was the music of Brahms more like that of Haydn/Mozart/Beethoven, or more like that of Schubert/Mendelssohn/Schumann?
nakedBison69 3 years ago
I personally feel that in expressive terms he was most like Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
very interesting. the reason i ask this in the first place, is because i have a bias against any music written by musical composers born after beethoven. but if brahms' post-beethoven birth was just an accident of nature, and that he really belongs in the 18th century, then i may consider him as somebody worth listening to
nakedBison69 3 years ago
nakedBison69 3 years ago
Nice selection, Grumpy.
I love it that you included the exerpt from Mendelsohnn's Hebrides Suite...one of my personal faves.
Two contemporary composers that I have been impressed with are:
- Hans Zimmer
- E. S. Posthumus
I would love to hear your insights on these, when you have the time.
Thank you again, for this delightful series.
SeekerNLife 3 years ago
E.S. Posthumus remind me in most of the pieces I have heard of theirs of Carmina Burana with a lot of timpani added. But I like some of it. Hans Zimmer has done some fine work, but as a movie composer I prefer Maurice Jarre (even though he is French!). I particularly like his barn-raising music in Witness (though I prefer the symphonic version by Nic Raine rather than the synthesised movie version).
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Thanks for the reply, Grumpy.
I was dissapointed in E.S.Posthumus's 2nd album, Cartographer...the 1st one was better, IMO.
And yes! Maurice Jarre's barn-raising sequence was one of the highlights of that movie.
I particularly enjoy most of Basil Poledouris's movie scores, as well.
It is often the best part of a movie.
Heh....Such as 'On Deadly Ground'.
Thanks again.
SeekerNLife 3 years ago
What happened to the two 'shoes'? Both showed originality, depth and range (particularly range) of output, and durability if you ask me. Their influence and significance might have been relatively modest, but Schubert in particular was far ahead of his time (just consider his last two symphonies or his last sonata, or his impromptus).
henripche 3 years ago
I love Shubert. I even made a point of visiting his former home in Vienna. But I don't think either he or Schumann showed great originality.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Schumann had originality through his temperment and if anything else, bad orchestration.
PlatypusofCalifornia 3 years ago
An interesting point of view.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Thanks for the series and the nod to Orff (and I agree besides ''that cool music from Excalibur' there IS little to say abt. him). I really need to check out Brahms more. BTW, did you like the "Rhapsody in rivets'? I found it riveting :)
PeterHaroldErikson 3 years ago
As they say in the current vernacular: Mad props.
But I thought a certain Tchaikovsky merited a mention here.
killerecho 3 years ago
I DID mention him (in passing).
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Great Series! Thanks for doing it! I enjoyed it very much! I hope you'll do more series. :-) Perhaps literature, art or the blues? ... or maybe even country music? ;-)
JonBGoode 3 years ago
Not country music, no. Although there are some country songs I like, it is not a genre I generally relate to. Art, maybe. Literature is too broad, although I might do a list of my favorite novels of all time.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
I love it! Great Insight.
The "you can't Händel the truth" was a classic. LOL
Keep it up, we need some relief from the everyday grind.
N~
Tritonnl 3 years ago
Comment removed
Tritonnl 3 years ago
Please do more videos about composers and their music. Thanks for the Top 10!
Gargeniture 3 years ago
I might do some more "Greatest Hits" compilations, but not sure if I want to discuss any of the composers in detail.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
What about Jean-Baptiste Lully? Nobody ever thinks of him and he did invent the French opera and restructure the orchestra :)
vilxan 3 years ago
As you say, vilxan, nobody ever thinks of him.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
You can Händel the truth... funny
egern22 3 years ago
"you can't handle the truth" had me rolling on the floor
francesmkeller 3 years ago
I'm surprised that Schubert didn't make either list. He had a pretty large resume to vouch for him.
d0861 3 years ago
I like Schubert. I visited his former home in Vienna. I am glad you mentioned him. But I don't think he stands up to the other composers on the list.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
where is Barber? I think that gershwin did not belong in the top 10. I would have removed him and put wagner at 8 and Strauss at 9 and maybe Mendelssohn, Tchaicovsky or Stravinsky at 10
Coixxman 3 years ago
Apart from his Adagio for Strings, Barber did not have much of an impact and he was not original. composing in the traditional vocabulary, as did Tchaikovsky. I have already given my reasons why Stravinsky did not make it onto the list.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
I suggest making a list of the most overrated composers. I imagine it would be quite fun for you to speak out against composers that are annoying, as well as all the fans who love your humorous rants.
member2798 3 years ago
I will be discussing some of them in a video to be uploaded next week.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
what about olivier messiaen?
karoloandria 3 years ago
what about him?
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Messiaen seems to be stuck in a long, dark passage in an abandoned mineshaft, going nowhere and offering no light
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
I think all the serialists/minimalist are bound by a musical straitjacket that inhibits genuine and free-ranging expression. Serialism/minimalism represents a kind of musical/artistic fascism with an extremely limited vocabulary. It announces itself in dull slogans
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Sorry Karoloandria, I deleted your last comment by mistake. John Cage is a poser whose pretentiousness is only exceeded by the idiots who pretend to like his non-music.
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
Of course leaving Zappa out of the Top 10 was a terrible oversight for which the world will no doubt hold me up to ridicule
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago
I have to admit that I was initially disappointed when you eliminated Stravinsky at the outset of the series, but I agree that his works lacked the range criterion. I'll be sorry to see this series end, but I hope to enjoy more of Mozart's music while you post it.
Thanks for a great musical journey! =^[.]^=
Raycheetah 3 years ago
I really enjoyed the Brahms! It's a beautiful symphony. The Hebrides is fantastic as well. I would like to thank you for all this series. Have a great day!
earthatic 3 years ago
Thanks to you too earthatic for your channel, which I highly recommend
OldGrumpyGuy 3 years ago