Rotary cup burners have been in use long before the 60ies, When I was growing up my church had two boilers from 1925 originally coal fired but some time around 1935 they were fitted with huge rotary cup type burners.
I think they were rated for somewhere around 900,000 BTU each.
I don't think it was a matter of trust, it just became more economical to switch to oil because the coal industry in WA (that's where the church is) died out some time during the depression so everyone was converting to oil heat. The burners were pretty well sized to the old boilers which held 900 gal of water each. Normally the burners were turned down to just let the boilers simmer along.
Hi Simon, I was just looking up the history of spinning cup burners. My cousin was using them for power generation in the 70's. I thought Jay Carter originated the idea in the 60's.
Did you know about the Barrett car? - it's in the UK now.
I've heared of the Barrett steam car, never seen it though. I have put the rotary cup on hold for now, I think my best idea is to use a vapourising oil burner as fast spinny things and a complete lack of any sustainable electrical power is a bit of a problem on a steam boat. I have many ideas though so keep an eye on my channel.
Nice burner, Have you seen the Barrett Steam Car? He uses a Spinning Cup Burner-Belt Driven. I have had some luck with a small dremel motor, and even fast hard drive disk platter. Seems speed is the key factor not power. Barrett uses 8000 rpm. Mine could burn WVO clean at 6000+ RPM
I admire what you've done so far but you have half a burner there. You need a close fitting (2mm gap) cover which directs the air past the cup in a narrow, high pressure, converging stream. This shears the oil film giving excellent atomisation and the possibility of a perfect blue flame. Good job so far though.
"interior lip of the cup should be ground or turned to a razor sharp edge."
My finger says it is. Cup speed is a little low (I got 1400rpm on my tacometer) but then the motor is a little on the small side. The idea was to use it on a steamboat, but the power required to drive the motor is too great for it to be of any real use. I havn't dismissed the idea of a small steam engine to do the job though. The imediate problem being how do you start it from cold.
If the atomisation is happening as it should (cup speed and air pressure will determine this), it will start cold. Might be an idea to start on Kero or an oil-Kero mix.
When I say cold start, I mean starting s steam-powered burner with a cold boiler, i.e. without any steam. It'll take about 15 min to generate steam, so for 15 min an electrickery motor could be used. As the main engine will only be around 6HP, there isn't enough power to realisticly run an alternator off without it causing annoying problems, so using a high-power electric motor for the burner (like 1/4HP) is only fesable for a short time.
OK, how about a minature steam Tesla turbine instead of a weed whacker. Speed should be about right. Heat the minature boiler with a gas burner and it should start quite quickly.
Tesla Turbines are somewhat contriversal. I've never seen one which actually works. I still recon a small piston engine will do the job fine, made specially to run at high speeds.
Problem with normal turbines is that they generally work best at one speed and not much either side. Designing one just right would be somewhat difficult.
I'm a Babington user, but have long had an interest in spinning cup burners. Is there more detail on your setup elsewhere on the net? What powers the spinning cup, electric motor, air turbine, other???
not the correct atomization of fuel to air ratio !
madfran6 2 years ago
Aye well it was a bit of a bodge up.
maltelec 2 years ago
Rotary cup burners have been in use long before the 60ies, When I was growing up my church had two boilers from 1925 originally coal fired but some time around 1935 they were fitted with huge rotary cup type burners.
I think they were rated for somewhere around 900,000 BTU each.
tonytiger75 3 years ago
I suppose back in them days people didn't trust oil as much, so thought they needed an oil burner unit the same size as a coal boiler.
maltelec 3 years ago
I don't think it was a matter of trust, it just became more economical to switch to oil because the coal industry in WA (that's where the church is) died out some time during the depression so everyone was converting to oil heat. The burners were pretty well sized to the old boilers which held 900 gal of water each. Normally the burners were turned down to just let the boilers simmer along.
tonytiger75 3 years ago
Hi Simon, I was just looking up the history of spinning cup burners. My cousin was using them for power generation in the 70's. I thought Jay Carter originated the idea in the 60's.
Did you know about the Barrett car? - it's in the UK now.
rtdgreg 3 years ago
I've heared of the Barrett steam car, never seen it though. I have put the rotary cup on hold for now, I think my best idea is to use a vapourising oil burner as fast spinny things and a complete lack of any sustainable electrical power is a bit of a problem on a steam boat. I have many ideas though so keep an eye on my channel.
maltelec 3 years ago
Nice burner, Have you seen the Barrett Steam Car? He uses a Spinning Cup Burner-Belt Driven. I have had some luck with a small dremel motor, and even fast hard drive disk platter. Seems speed is the key factor not power. Barrett uses 8000 rpm. Mine could burn WVO clean at 6000+ RPM
jommy99 4 years ago
I admire what you've done so far but you have half a burner there. You need a close fitting (2mm gap) cover which directs the air past the cup in a narrow, high pressure, converging stream. This shears the oil film giving excellent atomisation and the possibility of a perfect blue flame. Good job so far though.
evildrome 4 years ago
The new prototype has a 2mm gap to do just that.
maltelec 4 years ago
I look forward to seeing it with anticipation!
BTW the cup rotation speed should be about 3000 rpm. The interior lip of the cup should be ground or turned to a razor sharp edge.
Just my suggestions :)
evildrome 4 years ago
"interior lip of the cup should be ground or turned to a razor sharp edge."
My finger says it is. Cup speed is a little low (I got 1400rpm on my tacometer) but then the motor is a little on the small side. The idea was to use it on a steamboat, but the power required to drive the motor is too great for it to be of any real use. I havn't dismissed the idea of a small steam engine to do the job though. The imediate problem being how do you start it from cold.
maltelec 4 years ago
If the atomisation is happening as it should (cup speed and air pressure will determine this), it will start cold. Might be an idea to start on Kero or an oil-Kero mix.
evildrome 4 years ago
When I say cold start, I mean starting s steam-powered burner with a cold boiler, i.e. without any steam. It'll take about 15 min to generate steam, so for 15 min an electrickery motor could be used. As the main engine will only be around 6HP, there isn't enough power to realisticly run an alternator off without it causing annoying problems, so using a high-power electric motor for the burner (like 1/4HP) is only fesable for a short time.
maltelec 4 years ago
OK. I'm thinking:
1) Compressed air tank to substitute for steam until steam is available.
2) Lead Acid battery to run an electric motor.
3) Small (30cc weed whacker) gas engine.
Thoughts?
evildrome 4 years ago
1. A 50 litre tank will last about 3 minutes. Steam provides a huge amount of its energy from Enthalpy, air has none.
2. Optima battery I recon, with a small alternator to trickle charge it during the day.
3. Internal combustion engine on a steamboat? I'd be thrown out the SBA!
maltelec 4 years ago
OK, how about a minature steam Tesla turbine instead of a weed whacker. Speed should be about right. Heat the minature boiler with a gas burner and it should start quite quickly.
evildrome 4 years ago
Tesla Turbines are somewhat contriversal. I've never seen one which actually works. I still recon a small piston engine will do the job fine, made specially to run at high speeds.
maltelec 4 years ago
I was kind of kidding. I'd love to see one running but have yet to. I'll probably end up doing it myself. How hard can it be?
As an aside, Jommy made a small pelton wheel steam turbine that could be easily scaled up.
evildrome 4 years ago
Problem with normal turbines is that they generally work best at one speed and not much either side. Designing one just right would be somewhat difficult.
maltelec 4 years ago
I'm a Babington user, but have long had an interest in spinning cup burners. Is there more detail on your setup elsewhere on the net? What powers the spinning cup, electric motor, air turbine, other???
Dave Brown
quahogwi 4 years ago
The 2nd prototype didn't go quite so well but I think I've fixed one of the problems. Just need to fix the other and test it again.
maltelec 4 years ago
Nice prototype!
jommy99 4 years ago