Marriage of Aisha & Muhammad (pbuh) - Comprehensive Answer

[LlLChubby]

Oh i mean,I'm sorry to HAVE SAID in my previous comment "still far more biologically..."

[LlLChubby]

Now there are certain points to note in Nawawi's ruling:

1) It gives a ruling on what should be done at the TIME OF CONSUMMATION.

2) The statement " if the husband and the guardian of the girl agree...then that may be done" implies that girl is not mature enough to consent for consummation.

3) Consummation WITHOUT her consent at age of nine.

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - What are you talking about??? I gave you the hadith "fathers have no right in their daughters matters."... If the female says no thats final... marriage is invalid... so parental consent is also invalidated.. female wins no marriage, no consumation, nothing... the female has the control...

plus you have written in such a style so as to twist matters... deception is destroyed in the face of truth...

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

Surah 65:4 not only allows marriage of a young prepubescent child(of course without her consent),it also sets the period of her Iddah IN CASE if she is divorced BEFORE she reaches PUBERTY.

Scholars' (like Nawawi and Ibn Al-Mundhir) opinion on child marriages,and this verse of the Quran,proves my point.

[LlLChubby]

Read the tafsirs on surah 65:4,especially Tafsir Ibn Kathir.

AGAIN,you should see that surah 65:4 is talking about DIVORCING the prepubescent girl,which implies that marriage with prepubescent girl WAS valid at the very instant when it happened,hence marriage will NOT be declared invalid on girl's refusal when she grows old.

THIS IS CRYSTAL CLEAR.

[islamhadith]

This verse does not support you... Allah (swt) talks about the waiting period after divorce for women and prepubescent girls which is 3 months. In the hadith of Khansa its says "My father married me to his nephew..." so they were married... but she said no and the marriage became invalid... Next

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

I think you're not getting the point.

Do you believe that a prepubescent child can be married off by her parental consent(Note that marriage CAN NOT be declared invalid later on,when girl refuse to be part of that,because her parents had agreed as you're trying to argue) ?

OR

Are you of the opinion that the validity of such marriage remains in question till the child grows old and give her opinion ? (I don't agree with it,and I've given the reason ,i.e. in surah 65:4)

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - in Islam after marriage but before consumation is a 'special state' for example in this state a divorce can be initiated with one talaaq (utterance of divorce) and also for example there is no iddah waiting period for a women who is divorced but the marriage is not consumated etc..... So the hadith of Khansa still stands as defense aginst your concerns.

[LlLChubby]

islamhadith

HERE IS WHAT NAWAWI SAID:

Al-Nawawi said: With regard to the wedding-party of a young married girl at the time of

consummating the marriage, if the husband and the guardian of the girl agree upon something that will not cause harm to the young girl, then that may be done. If they disagree, then Ahmad and Abu ‘Ubayd say that once a girl reaches the age of nine then the marriage may be consummated even without her consent.

[LlLChubby]

THIS IS HOW IBN KATHIR EXPOUNDS ON THE AYAH WHICH ESTES REFERS TO at 9:39:

" Before, the practice was that when a man dies, his male relatives used to have the right to do whatever they wanted with his wife. If one of them wants, he would marry her, give her in marriage, or prevent her from marriage, for they had more right to her than her own family. Thereafter, this Ayah was revealed about this practice,

(O you who believe! You are not permitted to inherit women against their will).''

[lostcaller]

@LlLChubby - Yea your right the Mercy & Justice of Allah is evident in this verse... In Islam the women has the choice ot say NO! I dont want to marry you... bye!!! ... thanks for helping us out LILChubby

[LlLChubby]

@lostcaller

You don't believe in hadith,do you? So all these people,Mufti Taqi Usmani,Mufti Muhammad shafi,Ibn-e-Kathir,and Al Jalalayn are american agents.From where did you get these amazing facts?



[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - I believe in Hadith and DONT! insult these beloved personalities of Islam by calling them american agents... how would you like it if I called your dad a terrorist working for Russia?

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

It was lostcaller who called the Tafsir specialists american agents,not me.Try reading my comments in which I've proved that what being said in this video is far away from the facts.

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - I read your comments and you said "scholars maintain that a child(of any age) can be married off to anyone..." and lostcaller proved this wrong with Quran verse "Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage..." (Quran, 4:06) so its done and dusted... Quran trumps all in Islamic law-making.

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

"Quran trumps all in Islamic law-making..."

So,in that case,Quran trumps Muhammad too for marrying a 6 years old,does it?

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - Did you watch the video? It tells you that he did not marry a six year old... come on Chubz!! your commenting... but you didnt even watch the video?... I can see im dealing with a... ermmm "unique" intelligence here... tell us Chubbz if you are so against Islam and its teachings etc... then tell us about a better way of life or a about a better religion... we would all love to hear your solution for humanity.... ;)

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

I've watched the video,and I think it's time for you too to watch and see INCONGRUENCE in her answer.See 00:49.Here DOESN'T even talks about the age of her marriage,but he JUST CLARIFIES that the consummation took place at 9,not 6.THAT'S CLEAR,and such a young age is what actually bugs me.(The AGE OF MARRIAGE is just the other,LESS substantial,side of the debate.)

'

He refers to the age of her MARRIAGE at 8:23-8:30,but where is the hadith which he alludes to ?

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - So it bugs you that a women who has become so biologically (i.e she has had her period) gets married.? Biologically she is a women... women are supposed to get married and have families etc.. thats is how the humans are still on this earth because we produce offspring... I agree that today it is a different story in this regards... But at that time this would have been 100% socially acceptable, "In 1396, King Richard II of England married young Isabel of France, who was 7 years old.

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

You talked about King Richard II,but what you've not mentioned is that Canon Law prohibited consummation of marriage until girl was 12 years old(still far more biologically mature than 9) and,by the way,no one follows King Richard today.You said "at that time this would have been 100% socially acceptable",what you can't see is that Muhammad is still followed by the Muslims today.

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - It should be noted that in super hot countries like saudi girls develop into women faster then in colder countries like England... so it makes perfect sense for England to have had a law allowing consumation with 12 bcoz that was likely to be the average age in England for girls to develop to women... by the way for someone who was against young marriage for people living 1000+ years ago you just actually defended it for King Richard... unbelievable... *speechless*

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - another point to add is that only 100 years ago the age of consent in America was 10, cali was the first state to raise it to 14 in 1889... in the UK only 100 years ago age of consent was 11

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - King Richard is being followed today his concept of government and military foundations are being practiced throughout the world today along with his foreign policy... and people use the pocket handkerchief its said he invented...

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

Look around,and tell me if a girl 9,even 12,years old today knows what marriage is,it's implications/demands ? And you still haven't stated the hadith which suggests that Aisha agreed for marriage,when she reached 6 years old(the age at which her parents married her off)? I fear you won't be able to find any.

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - Today is a different story even our adults act and behave like children... forget 9 or 12... a 25 year old could not tell you the demands or implications of marriage...

[islamhadith]

Here it is Chubbz...no forced marriage!! ;)...

Khansa said “My father married me to his nephew, and I did not like this match, so I complained to the Propeht (pbuh). He said to me “accept what your father has arranged.” I said “I do not wish to accept what my father has arranged.” He said

“then this marriage is invalid, go and marry whomever you wish.” I said I have accepted what my father has arranged, but I wanted women to know that fathers have no right in their daughters matters. (Bukhari)

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

I AGREE that there are NO FORCED MARRIAGES in Islam,but that is only in case of those girls who have reached puberty.

'

A child can be married off to anyone by her PARENTAL CONSENT.Of course it is ridiculous to say that the consent of 4/5/6 years old girl should be sought(she is not able to consent).

[LlLChubby]

@islamhadith

I didn't supported Richard for that,but only related her marriage with the case under scrutiny.Anyway,I'm sorry to say "still far more biologically mature than 9" if the climate change can have that much effect on puberty.

Surely richard is by far not a perfect example to be followed today.I HIGHLY doubt if 7 years old Isabella knew at the time of her marriage that what was happening.

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - Regardless of your words, it happened and was a common practice at those times. Highlighting and ridiculing one person for a practice widespread and accepted around the world at its time is tentamount to pure hatred for that person, rasicsm, discrimination and just pure ignorance... I can say with surety that your own ancestors were involved in the same practice... wake up, see the bigger picture and dont throw stones in glass houses.

[islamhadith]

@LlLChubby - I've answered all your tiresome questions with brilliant rebuttles no one has come up with anything for over 56 comments... now answer my question... what is your solution for humanity?... or are you ready to accept Islam? and testify that there is no God But Allah the Creator of All things and Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger of Allah... Chubz and everyone reading this... Accept Islam for your salvation!

[LlLChubby]

At 9:39,the verse of Nisa,which he's referring to,does not prohibit parents from giving away their CHILDREN in marriage. It is talking about ADULT females in general;and also those females in pre-Islamic period who,after death of their husbands,were forced into marriage with their husband's brothers. See the tafsirs.

Islamic scholars maintain that a child(of any age) can be married off to anyone,and her consent is not required.

[lostcaller]

@LlLChubby - I dont care what Islamic scholars say...

Quran is our constitution!!!

and it says

Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage... (Quran, 4:06)

So according to the Lord of the Universe there is an age of marriage... guess those so called scholars (american trained agents...maybe lol) missed that verse... and its right at the start dont know how they did that... guess they were sleepy when they were reading it... wake up people

[LlLChubby]

Where is it written that she agreed ?

[MiloBoz]

The intelligent answer is: At that time in history, this would have been 100% socially acceptable, especially among Royalty/The Elite. "In 1396, Richard II of England was joined in marriage to young Isabel of France, who had been 7 years old when their engagement was announced the previous year in Paris. Not only was there no uproar; there was considerable happiness expressed over the assumed probability that this marriage would end the Hundred Years War."

[MiloBoz]

@MiloBoz 1396 was what... 700 years or so AFTER Prophet Muhammad married Aisha? Keyword married, as any kind of fornication is forbidded in Islam. The thing people should be asking about is the Talmud. According to it, sexually molesting 3 year old children is OK.

[BeethovenAbortion]

Why are so many Muslims like this guy: angry and easily offended? If you hold God's divine word then why so defensive?

[lostcaller]

@BeethovenAbortion - This guy is angry because people insulted his beloved... This guy is easliy offended because he loves that which is being offended so much... A world without emotions would be really boring... Thanks for the comment.

[badleydrawn]

@BeethovenAbortion imagine if someone called your dad a peadophile, how would you react?

[BeethovenAbortion]

@badleydrawn Of course I'd be angry. No shit. But my dad is a living person. He's not someone who died 1300 years ago and who founded a religion for which there is no decent evidence. I'm saying that people should try and move past religion. Honestly, for humans in the global society of the 21st Century, Muhammad (PBUH!!!) should evoke the same emotion as people like Mani or Simon Magus. We can't be held-hostage by Iron Age literature anymore.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - I would say that "1 Billion+ Muslims" is decent evidence for a religion... or that if you threw all the books in the world into the ocean only 1 would remain as it is memorized word for word letter for letter by hundreds of thousands of Muslims across the globe and this way of life is in the hearts and minds and is practiced in our lives. Moving past religion is moving towards the animal whos life is fuelled by desires... thanks for your comment ;)

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith You're welcome. But if numbers counted for anything, than Christianity would be the one true religion. And how does being able to memorize a book count as evidence?

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - You believe in math right? I'll answer for you... you do! So now do numbers count for things? OK case-closed on numbers meaning something... And the followers of Jesus were once on the truth... but like the Jews they denied the successor... & Memorizeing the book = a living miracle... Allah (God to you English speaking folks) says in the Quran that the Quran is easy to memorize... so there you go proof... can get more crystal than that tbh...

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith Are you serious? Ok this conversation clearly can't progress because if you're convinced by "evidence" such as that then there's no chance of logic seeping in. And I was talking about the number of converts. If a billion people believe something, that doesn't necessarily make it true.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - Your understanding of the word logic is corrupted... bcoz its logical to say that if hundreds of thousands of people manage to memorize a massive book with 114 chapters including children as young as 6 or adults as old as 80 then something wierd is going on... thats logic my friend... logic is not to hear something about Islam then shout thats Illogical just because it is religiously based. No but if a billion people ask you to read one book... read it!

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith "If a billion people ask you to read one book... read it!" Fuck no. Like I said, a billion people can still be wrong. People can be led to believe anything. There are way more Christians than there are Muslims. So if all of them are saying to us "read the Bible" should we do it? Is that proof of anything?

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - Arrogance is your enemy human... I understand if you read the Bible then said they are wrong because the bible says this example and this example etc... But to say they are wrong without even reading it is ... Stupid! and leads to uneducated people with out valid opinions... You can not say its wrong academically if you have not read it... simple wake up! and read human... you are bringing this world into darkenss with your arrogance and limited education.

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith But I have read the Quran so what are you talking about? Why do you guys always assume that if someone disagrees with your view on Islam, then that automatically means they know nothing about Islam at all?

Believe what you will, but it's my educated opinion that YOU guys are bringing the world into darkness by hanging onto these fairy tales and outdated philosophies.

And why do you keep calling me human? Makes you sound like an alien.

[lostcaller]

@BeethovenAbortion - lol well we are on different planes of existence

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith You guys believe the Quran is the word of God, therefore you must memorize it. So you do. And you teach your kids how to do it. Therefore you've memorized it because you are so passionate about it. It's a kind of circular reasoning. If your parents had swapped the Quran for Grimm's Fairy Tales or any other huge text and told you it was the word of God, you would've memorized it too and would be saying how easy it is.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - Go get an 80 year old man and get him to memorize one page of the english dictionary he will never be able to do it or he will make so many mistakes when recalling it that its not worth it. Now get this same man to memorize Quran and he amazes himself with his ability to memorize... I've personally witnessed this

"And We (Allah) have made the Holy Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will receive admonition."(The Quran, 54:17)

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith What is this bullshit? Sorry, buddy, you're not convincing me for a fucking second on that. I certainly believe that an old man can memorize the Quran, but I fucking doubt it's any easier than the english dictionary. You've witnissed this? I'm pretty sure you haven't. Nice try though. Whatever: keep believing that. See me in Hell.

[lostcaller]

@BeethovenAbortion - Well its true anyway... but a small child would not even be able to read the dictionary let alone memorize it but we find that they are memorizing quran before they can even speak their mother tounge FACT

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith  I'm sure that living in a world without religion must seem scary, since a religious world is all most humans have known for their entire lives. But countless people today live without religion and without God and they're just fine. The least religious countries on Earth often have the highest health, education, literacy rate and standard of living, and the lowest crime rate and infant mortality rate.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - If you take one thing from me please take this that "Everything that glitters is not Gold"... ;) When a people get close to God... God tests them with hardship so that he may raise them in status and give them higher reward... God loves the patient... And this concept is a fundamental of Islam... be happy with the decree and thank God for what he has given you... & for extra measure the secular countries have higest suicide rate... depressed and lost.

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith Maybe you suffer hardships because you're close to Allah (PBUH!!!) and Allah (PBUH!!!) is testing you, or maybe it's because the forces of nature inflict hardship on all living things indiscriminantely. And that is not true at all about suicide rates. Look it up. Plenty of religious countries have high suicides rates. Why? Who knows. But in my life I've seen countless people who are happy and kind without religion.

[islamhadith]

@BA - The forces of nature are tools of God and as such can be used accordingly. For example. Kurt Westergaard the Danish cartoonist who drew Muhammad (pbuh) died in a wierd fire incident that was localized only to the room he was in. Danish authorities were baffeled (international press will never report this) I did look up the suidice rates thats how I told you. Turkey, Pakistan, Kuwait, Egypt, Jordan are right at the bottom of the list why? because they are happier people.

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith Dead, huh? Ok I'll believe it when I see more evidence. You know what, I drew Muhammad a while back and put it on DeviantArt. Is Allah gonna send some wrath down on me? And I haven't found those results in any of the studies I've found. Egypt and Jordan are usually low, but not at the bottom. And Iran and Turkey seem to usually be much higher up.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - I doubt thats true you seem smarter then that... But if it is true then you are actually being warned through my conversation with you and after I deliver the message

that Allah is the One True God and Muhammad (pbuh) is the last and final messenger... accept Islam for your salvation...

then your time is up expect the worst...

[hujum1]

@BeethovenAbortion - Decent evidence? How about an uncorruptable scripture or inumerable narrations from the Prophet (pbuh) with such strong chains of narration and backed with an authenticity verfication methodology so solid (hadith science) that scotland yard use it to solve crimes... well? or that the whole world is living off the advances in science, technology, medicine, engineering, architecture, design etc.. etc.. that the early Muslims brought to the world... well?

[BeethovenAbortion]

@hujum1 Using that same logic, and considering the equally remarkable advances made by Ancient Greece, Classical India, and Renaissance Europe, one could make the argument that Hinduism, Greek Polytheism, and Christianity are also true. But of course, they're not.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - Credit where credit is due... The Prophets from Adam to Noah to Moses to David & Soloman to Abraham, Jesus & Muhammad (pbut) helped raise their people to different plains of exsitence... for example no one has done it like Soloman... He controlled and spoke with the animals and the Jinn and manipulated the wind, he had such a kingdom that no one has or will ever have on this earth again.

[Islampromotions]

@BeethovenAbortion - Religion is the only way to unite humankind, ask the billion Muslims who unite under the banner of Islam "whats it like being part of the biggest, closest family on earth?"

Do we not use algebra? how did we learn it? Muslim "Iron Age Literature" brought it to us. Father of Chemistry = Jabir ibn Hayyan (look him up). Al-Zahrawi a medical expert wrote a 30 volume medcial encylopedia + designed over 200 medical tools we still use today. I could go on and on

[BeethovenAbortion]

@Islampromotions Religion seperates more than it unites (Sunnis and Shi'ites, Catholics and Protestants, etc.). It'd be more accurate to say "Religion is the only way to unite humankind under one religion". And of course that religion's going to be yours, right? Thing is, the only way that can be done is by force. Most humans won't willingly convert away from their own beloved faith. So you guys better get started on that new caliphate soon so you can conquer the world.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - At least my religion is better than yours... Materialism gets old real quick... I cant imagine myself taking money as my god and Darwin as my Prophet.

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith Haha ok now you're sounding like a kid on the playground: "Well...um...at least my dad could beat up your dad!". If anything is my God, it would probably be Nature. Definitely not money.

[yeswesave]

@BeethovenAbortion - Gotcha! lol... It was a wake up call. I wanted you to think about your life... why am I here?, how did I get here? Is there a God? .... etc.. and you came back with nature... well thats a start... firstly nature is quite a general term for things like the wind or rain or plants etc... I would think again before you give the status of god to a plant because... As I tell some Christians "Your Gods gonna die" and God by defenition can not die...

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith If Darwin was a prophet, he simply would've said "God has spoken to me. He says life evolves over time. Humans came from apes. This is the truth. Why? Because I said so. Those fools who do not believe me will be tortured for eternity." Sound familiar? Yeah, that's because it's the basic formula used by almost every religious prophet in history, including your home-boy Muhammad (PBUH!!!).

[yeswesave]

@BeethovenAbortion - I did not say Darwin was an actual prophet (come on thats crazy) but the similartude between a prophet and him is that darwin also invites people to his understanding of how we were created. So People take him as a prophet and find their understanding of the universe through him.

[BeethovenAbortion]

@yeswesave If they considered him a prophet then they would take his words as divine revelation. But many disbelieved Darwin when he first put forth his ideas (afterall, there wasn't that much evidence to support him at that time). And the last 100+ years have seen an outpouring of corroborative evidence in favor of evolution by natural selection. I don't know anyone who considers Darwin a prophet of any sort, but if they do then they don't know anything about him.

[islamhadith]

@BeethovenAbortion - wake up!... Its a joke but people have taken Darwin as their messenger because he brought a message to believe in his idea of life. And people have taken fire as their god because they believe the big bang created everything. Anyway Darwin himself said: If people do not find fossils evidence for this theory then its wrong... guess what? thery never have found evidence and never will.

[BeethovenAbortion]

@islamhadith Oh! You are a funny one indeed. So all the fossil finds that have been found over the 100+ years don't count as evidence to you? Well then I don't really know what else to say to you. Maybe read "Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea" by Carl Zimmer. It's a lot better than the Quran.

[lostcaller]

@BeethovenAbortion - Seriously dude not a single fossil that backs up darwinism has ever been found in fact the opposite a 165 million year old spider fossil was found and it has exactly the same features as the spiders today have. out of luck darwin... In fact I cant believe I still come across people who believe in this... its the same story for a 125-million-year-old salamander fossil... even ferns have kept their same structure for 300 million years... wake up