Ephesians 5:21-33 - Myth of Submission - Joel and Kathy Davisson

[savemartg]

To my otto link: It is only fitting in the Lord for a wife to submit to a husband who is mutually submitting to her and who is loving her with a Christlike, agape love. It would not be fitting in the Lord for her to submit to a husband who has not laid his life down for her first in loving her like Christ loves the church in the same way that a person does not receive Jesus until they first understand what He did for them first in giving His life. Thank you for the question!

[savemartg]

A husband would lay his life down for his wife, meaning his ego and pride. Therefore, he and she would continue to talk and pray until they both agree.. however, wouldn't it be wise for a husband to consider this? Do I want my way on the house or do I want my wife to be happy? I think that any wise man would care for his wife's heart in the matter and not get hung up up on what "he" wants to do. So they talk the pro's and con's over - but his goal should be "happy wife". That is a mature man.

[ispytrout]

Part 1

Very interesting. I had this discussion recently at an all guys bible study. I am not married but I think it is important to be aware of this stuff. Could I gain your opinion on a hypothetical example that was brought up in our discussion? We were given the hypothetical example of a husband believing it to be the right time to sell the family home. He thus presents this idea to his wife. She does not want to sell the home. The two cannot come to an agreement on the matter.

[ispytrout]

Part 2

Who then has the right to say “This is what we are going to do” (the ‘power’ of veto). I would have thought that such a decision is ultimately the man’s decision as he is the leader of the house hold (1 Corinthians 11:3) (if I am interpreting this verse correctly?). But then if this is the case would that not mean that ultimately the wife is ‘submitting’ to his way of thinking.

Thanks for your time.

[savemartg]

Thank you elfking,

We do include that in our books. Basically this: It is the same word "hupotasso" that is mutual submission. It is fitting in the Lord for a wife to mutually submit to her husband when he is submitting to her; laying his life down for her like Christ did for the church. When he is being THAT type of husband, then and ONLY then is it "fitting" for her to submit to him in return. Thank you for the great question

!

[MyOttoLink]

@savemartg I've always wondered about that--and you are the first to address it. It brings up a question in my mind, as well: I didn't see in the Colossians passage, your conclusion about the wife being obligated to submit only if the husband submits to her. Can you tell me how you arrived at this interpretation of "fitting in the Lord"?

[elfking730]

I understand what you're saying and I can agree that we are to submit to one another,I was just wondering, What about the verse in Col 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord. Can you explain this passage and even include it in your teaching so there will be no confusion. Thanks, I enjoy listening.

[savemartg]

Part 1 of a post. See part 2 in the next post below:

On the theological arguement side. We don't get into debate - we just live our happy marriage. However, in another place, someone wanted to debate. Another person chimed in with this comment:

The oldest manuscripts (Alexandrian Codices) do not have hupotasso in (the portion corresponding with) verse 22 at all. The verb occurs in verse 21 "Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God" with no verb in verse 22.

[savemartg]

Part 2 of the above post

The University of Michigan has the oldest surviving manuscript of the Pauline Epistles which is called P46 (you can see enlarged photos here), and there is no hupotasso (in the portion corresponding to verse 22)

Personally, I think the hupotasso in verse 22 (based on the TR) was an unfortunate interpretational insertion which has only obscured and confused Paul's teaching about God's intentions for marriage.

[savemartg]

We are Joel and Kathy Davisson speaking on the video. You can find our website at GodSaveMyMarriage and that is a dot com address, by the way or SaveOurChristianMarriage which is also a dot com address.

[savemartg]

In verse 22 of Ephesians 5, the word "hupotasso" does not exist. "Hupotasso" is the word that we translate into the english word "submit". In Ephesians 5:21, the Greek text declares that we are to "hupotasso" one to another. That is mutual submission. In verse 21, the word "hupotasso" does not exist. The "wives, unto your husband as unto the lord". "Your own" has definitions that include "private and seperate". It is pretty simple, really.

[savemartg]

Jaymz, you can keep your theology - but it is going to get you into trouble when you get married.

Interesting that you declare that verse 22 says for a wife to submit when the word hupotasso does not even appear in the Greek.

[striving2bholy1]

great message in this video, i think a lot of people need clarification on the submission verses in Ephesians...thank God my pastor was very clear about what it meant to submit when i got married.....great stuff