Vladimir de Pachmann (1848-1933): Chopin - Etude in C minor

[superbemaison]

Very intelligent comment on the pitch.

I noticed that whether on Lps or CDs-pitch tend to be higher because the mechanical speed of the turntable or tuner is higher.It is sharper to the hearing.

While transposing those  recordings speed goes down a little as well which seems in accordance with the Pythagorian scale.

[addeex1]

Wait wait wait, C-Minor? xD

lol old recording it sounds almost like h/b minor :P

[Troybeallad]

An Old Master !

[xxTiffanyoo]

I like the way he played it slower; I think it gives the piece character. Also, the listener can differentiate the different notes in the LH.

It also shows off his skill and dexterity.

[bajnokanna]

Why do we immediately assume the record is slow? What if he wanted to play it softer, what if he wanted to show us that chopin is fragile even when he is angry? I think the records in perfect speed and this is the only recording of this piece thats played correct.

[Achtelnote]

my comment was not for this etude.i meant the c major etude video with pachmann and argerich.

[Achtelnote]

i think the speed is wrong.he played faster,but the recording runs to slow.its not in thr right pitch.

[KenSkaii]

the speed is wrong.

this sounds like b minor when the real thing should be c minor

[AulicExclusiva]

Old 78 rpm records often played at unpredictable speeds (i.e., higher or lower than 78.24 revolutions per minute). The original disk here is probably dubbed at the wrong speed, that's why the performance sounds flat.

[alexongcs]

I love this interpretation soooooo much! I like the way he pulls it and takes his own sweet time!!!! Just like the way he did with the op. 10 No. 1! :)

[larsnelissen]

In the old days they tuned the pianos much lowere than today!

[d60944]

Ah. Very interesting observation! Just as a proviso though... there was no standard 78rpm record until sometime into the century for records, and many discs were not marked with a speed on them. I will check my recording gradually to see what pitch they are at. However, see next comment...

[d60944]

At the start of the century A=440 was also not the standard pitch at all. Briefly: Handel's A=422.5; Mozart's A=421.6; London Phil Soc 1813-1820 A=423.5, after 1820 until the 1840s A=433.2, after 1845 A=454.7 (!); London Albert Hall 1877 A=455.1; London Crystal Palace organ 1888 A=c.452; in the 1880s: Steinway (New York) A=457.2, Erard A=455.3, Chappell A=455.9; "French Pitch" established before the 1860s A=435 and sort of adopted in other non-German/Russian countries. (continued in next note)

[d60944]

Vienna 1885 A=435.4; Philharmonic 1896 A=439. Given that the Paris G&Ts seems to have been recorded at A=435, and also given the Philharmonic pitch of 1896 and the French standard as well as the Vienna standard, it seems likely that this recording (which was made in London, 1909) should be played at a few notches flat of our modern A=440, and so this recording is probably just about right in fact. :-)

[kasyapa]

you've given me a good reminder that a=440 is by no means a recording standard. thank you! however, i think this one is about 200% below a=435. taking (440-220)/12=18.33 as a semitone interval, this is a good deal flatter than the a=435-439 range, yes?

[AngelicaTross]

The semitone interval is not arithmetic; it is geometric. The ratio is the twelfth root of two, or approximately 1.0595. That gives Ab = 415, which makes it even more flat.

[kasyapa]

yes, and thank you for the 6.67 cycles difference. *smile*

it is also possible to approximate an arithmetic value at any point along a geometric scale. i was keeping it simple (hence my "taking x as y"), in keeping with the level of the discussion.

[unclejuniorsoprano]

@AngelicaTross A very intelligent, mathematical comment. I think you are correct about the de Pachmann recording of this etude. It does sound flat. I have never heard de Pachmann play anything this slowly. He was a pyrotechnician & loved blazing through such difficulties. I really don't understand this recording. I would love to know how you derived this equation. I know it was 2 yrs. ago since you made this comment. It was, perhaps, the best comment on the page.

[pianovideo]

a little slow/flat possibly?

[kasyapa]

yes, it is a little more than a semitone flat - probably correspondingly slowed too.