Whilst the smoking ban has had an impact, im sorry to say there has probably been a general trend for several years of a decline in the number of people going to pubs.
Thats markets and freedom of choice. Alot of people today would rather go to clubs or similiar venues rather than the small local pub.
There are several pubs near where i live, one is always full (and responsible for some anti social behaviour), another two are almost empty every night. Demand for small local pubs is falling
As i said i accept the smoking ban has had an impact, however the same ban applys to restaurants and clubs and yet many of them still manage to attract large numbers of people. If pubs were this perfect place that everyone wanted to go it wouldnt face the problems it does today.
Some pubs have changed and turned into a more family location, offering better food and a nicer environment.. Thats a change for the good in my view.
I dont want to ban u smoking, just help encourage u to stop :)
I have a right to say what i like within the laws of these lands. The government has a right to encourage people to do certain things or stop doing certain things because they have to look after tax payers interests and this countries future health and well being
Id encourage u to excerise, not eat too much, not drink too much, not smoke, not stare at a screen too much, not walk on railways, not do drugs, not get into fights. Theres a big list and its right the government tries to prevent it
The only way this country can continue to afford the NHS is through prevention. So instead of waiting for someone to damage their liver, lungs, heart or general health the government has to try and encourage social change.
It can do that by making it harder for smokers to hurt others, making it more inconvienent for people to smoke, making it more expensive to smoke.
Banning fatty foods, doubling PE in schools. Its right the govenment do those sorts of things
And thats closed too, though we can't blame the smoking ban for that. But I bet the recruiting sergeant isn't so lively nowadays (apart from the screaming kids since its been more a family restuarent than a pub for years).
Sorry to hear your pub is boarded up. Hairy,this Government do not care how many they put out of work or homes. Ventilation/air filtration should have been the way forward,for those Landlords/Ladies who wanted that choice.The smoke haters were never BANNED from investing THEIR own money into smoke-free venues.
I cannot believe the pubs that have gone bankrupt or suffered losses are not suing the likes of ASH.Bans DO harm business as many other Countries will soon work out for themselves.
Spain is a great place to go, I have been 3 times this year, I will not go to any intolerant Country, I spend my "smokers money" where myself and Hubby (never smoked) can share our leisure time together. So this Country and many others are out!
freedom2choose info for tolerant non-smokers and smoker alike, we will fight for choice and the lies and propaganda.
You see, the Spanish seem to have the right idea. Very recently I spent a marvelous fortnight in Alcaudete, Jaen. Whilst there I enjoyed numerous days and nights smoking in every bar I went to. The Spanish have this policy over there which is: Smoking is permitted in this bar, If you don't like smoke... don't drink in this bar. Simple idea really, not only that, it cost me a mere 2.45 euros for a pack of fags. Viva Espana!
Sounds like heaven, pyparauk. Why is it that we British need lessons in civilized society from the Spanish? If we were the beacon of civilization that we used to consider ourselves, then we would have lead the world in ousting these anti smoking leaches from power.
My mother never lit a cigarette in her life. She never was interested. She died in her 60s from lung cancer.
My aunt, her older sister, was a chain smoker from age 17 until her death at 93. Do the math! That's 2.25 million cigarettes. She quit work at 90 because of failing eyesight. And she died of old age.
It's a crapshoot. Period. Yes, you're going to die if you smoke. But guess what? You're going to die just as surely if you don't.
There is also one other thing perhaps i should remind you all about. If you didnt spend the money on drink and tobacco that you do then you would spend it on other things in the economy or save the money.. Both of those things would be good for our economy without damaging our National Health Service and other public services :)
You really are a fool when it comes to economics. Whatever we spend our money on, we pay tax. But the best things to spend it on are things we enjoy. That way, we don't mind so much that we are all being bled dry by the highest taxation in the world. You should cheer us on for smoking and drinking, because the more we do it, the less you have to pay in tax on whatever sad little inexpensive thing you do all alone in your room before bedtime.
The government protects peoples savings up to £50,000 Now unless you have a very serious smoking problem i dont think that many would make that much of a saving to risk losing it. They certainly wouldnt be able to save a billion pounds by giving up smoking.
It was 35 and they raised it to 50 to keep the conservatives happy. That still protects the vast majority of British savers. Again most people wouldnt save over £50,000 by giving up smoking.
Less than 20% of direct smoking and drinking taxation is spent on treating smokers and drinkers in the NHS, infact while smokers and drinkers are enjoying themselves they are propping up the economy.
Hopefully all you non smoking pious moaners will be glad to hear that you are each paying nearly £200 per year in extra taxation to pay for the smoking ban experiment, adverts, councilling, flyers, NRT etc, money that you could have spent on heating your homes etc.
revenue from tobacco does make more than current costs to the NHS however we have to look at the long term and those prices would rise RADICALLY if we allowed the level of smokers to grow rather than shrink as it is currently
As for drinking, this costs us FAR more than we raise in revenue today. When you take into account the huge costs to the NHS, Criminal justice system, police, money lost from unproductivity, the list on drinking costs is endless
Hmm well im no expert on economic issues perhaps you could explain where i went wrong? I said if people didnt spend money on tabacco they would spend it some other way, helping a different part of the economy.
No im not gordon brown, the majority of the population support the smoking ban and dont smoke.
If you were right and smoking really kills people, then by reducing smoking rates we would cause people to live longer. And as you're probably aware if you'd really done your research, that one of the biggest drains on the NHS is the fact that people are living longer. So you wish to reduce smoking rates, therefore reduce NHS revenue, and by doing so increase NHS expenditure. Your sad little anti smoking, anti alcohol, anti pleasure utopia is a contradiction of itself.
I'm getting heartily sick of no marks like you TheBritishWatcher who think they have a right to stick their runny noses into other peoples life! You are prepared to see a business go to the wall with all the personal damage that causes to a family just because??? Because of what really, you and your ilk don't like the smell of tobacco? Or are you just easily led by the liars who can't get any evidence that SHS kills. It's smoking bans that kill.
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My problem with pubs is to do with this countries drink problem and nothing to do with the tobacco issue, which is why i said its good that its kind of killing two birds with one stone. Sadly half of all violent crime is linked to drink, many cases happen in town and city centers across this country. The cost is too high to society
There is clear evidence showing exposure to someone smoking tobacco can damage that non smokers health so damn right it should be banned in public enclosed places.
The so called drink problem you refer to is a problem of a minority of young people getting out of hand on a saturday night. Simple solution, arrest people for being drunk and disorderly if they get out of hand. But don't punish everybody for the behaviour of a minority. Especially not to appease the selfish anti alcohol demands of an even smaller minority.
What problem TheBritishWatcher? It seems you have a problem with drink, not the people of this country! Like smoking, drinking alcohol is only a problem to those who do not like it, not to those that do. I think the 'drink' problem is in your head. The majority of drinkers drink sensibly, as do smokers.
Sorry but plenty of people make spelling mistakes online, myself included. I have spent too much time talking with Americans online sometimes you pick up on the language.
I am British. If i was an American i would be against social healthcare, which i am not. I support socialized healthcare like our NHS, but with such great rights comes responsibilities. One of those is to look after the body as best you can, which means we have to encourage people to live a HEALTHY life.
no i never said our bodies belong to the state. I dont support a complete ban on smoking or drinking, even though they are damaging habbits. Freedom of choice by the individual must be maintained, but it doesnt mean our government and society shouldnt try to help shape those habbits into a more healthy lifestyle.
The British people pay for the NHS, most of them dont want it abused and misused by people who should take their health more seriously.
I agree with what you are saying British Watcher, but I think the anger that us smokers are feeling is because it's all very one sided. There was no compromise at all when there could have easily been one, like smoking rooms with ventilation, instead of being forced outside in the freezing cold, wet weather. And also, the amount of elitist comments that we recieve by anti-smokers, give me quid for every time I've had a filthy look while smoking OUTSIDE, or a rude remark, I'd be a rich girlie!
I agree it is one sided and i can understand the anger, but i think whats being done is the right thing. Its what they call "tough love" in my opinion. I understand its an addiction for many people, or that some people just smoke because of choice and they do have the freedom to choose but we have to protect other peoples rights and we have to do EVERYTHING possible to encourage people NOT to start smoking
I dont know how long you have been smoking, but if you could go back would u start again?
@TheBritishWatcher The stresses of living in this world is not healthy either but yet we are born we live & we die. No one has the right to tell another how to live! Too many seniors alive & well lived though the smoking eras today. This is all media anti's brainwashing. After smoking 37 years I wish it killed me because I can't stand what this world become. But yet I'm healthy? For what reason? God knows but to be stuck in a world that our freedom rights are taken away by nazis? No thank you!
Such a shame that there are still people about who have no concept of enjoyment or the possible enjoyment of others. Perhaps if we all sat at home boiling cabbage you would deem this suitable practice-but then we would only be reboiling you head you numpty.
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Most smokers want to quit, that is what all the research says. The government is trying to HELP these people.
If the person gives up smoking they will be healthier and save ALOT of money. Freedom of choice will always be vital in a free society but its right to put people off something that will damage them.
All adictions are bad, and surely as a smoker u would hope the next generation dont get addicted if you are?
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Overturning the smoking ban wouldnt have a huge impact on the economy as a whole. Also we have to look at the long term, the ban on smoking in public places and pubs is helping to make people quit.
We have to think of the long term health conditions of the nation. People need to get off the drink and tobacco if the NHS is to survive. Whilst i feel sorry for those landlords who lose money and their businesses.. i wont cry about pubs closing its a good thing.
Tobacco tax pays for the NHS, reducing smoking rates will reduce revenue and ultimately harm the NHS. And as for your claim that pubs closing is a good thing. You are clearly an anti social type that doesn't understand the concept of social interaction. Enjoy your sterile sad little friendless world, you're welcome to it.
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I fully accept the government makes alot of revenues from taxes on smokers, however it is nowhere near enough. From the table i have seen the government raises about 10 billion a year from taxes on tobacco, but we should double that to take into account all the jobs created because of the industry.
20 billion is alot of money, but when you consider we spend over 100 BILLION a year for the NHS in England alone, it puts it into context. We must act to reduce the drain on such things.
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Drink has a far bigger impact on our country than tobacco does although both are bad. Which is why its kind of killing two birds with one stone as they say if forcing pubs to enforce a smoking ban helps A) reduce the numbers going to pubs and B) reduces the number of people smoking.
The number of smokers is falling in this country which is a good thing, and we must do more. Also we do have to break the community hub of pubs. This country has a drink problem, and pubs are part of the problem.
Everywhere that smoking bans come into force, a small initial decline in smoking rates is soon followed by a rise. Ireland now has higher smoking prevalance than before their ban.
According to our own government figures, alledged smoking related diseases cost the NHS 1.8 billion a year to treat. Therefore smokers pay for both their own treatment fivefold.
I say alledged smoking related diseases because the list includes anything that a smoker has ever died from, despite the fact that it has never been proven that smoking was responsible for a single death. If you hate smoking, don't do it. If you hate drinking don't drink. But don't impose your petty selfish demands on others.
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As i mentioned before Drink is a bigger issue than tobacco, but there is clear scientific evidence showing smoking is a health risk and increases the chances of cancer, therefor we would be foolish and irresponsible to not try to stop this
if it was every man for himself then yes its up to you how you live your life. Sadly we have an NHS paid for by the tax payer and we dont want our money wasted because people choose to abuse their body
Its right we prevent the next generation from doing it
That 1.8 figure was from 1997, the most recent report (a week ago) puts the cost far more around the 2.7 billion mark for England alone so if we looked at the whole UK its probably 3.5 billion.
What the report also states is the efforts taken to reduce smoking has prevented those costs from rising more. We have to ensure the next generation isnt as unhealthy as the current one, and yes part of that means clamping down on tobacco and trying to radically reduce smoker levels
Well i have a computer and use the internet at home. This is not just about smokers, it is about the state having a responsibility for the next generation to try and prevent mistakes of the past
That means we must stop kids getting fat by more school PE, stop them turning to drugs by more law enforcment / anti drug education, stop them from turning to drink (which costs this country BILLIONS more than we make in revenues) and yes reduce the number of smokers by making it inconvenient to smoke
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As a tax payer everyones unhealthy actions are a concern to me. Again this country has a national health service where people are treated for free in most cases. I therefor expect people to take some responsibility and for our government to try and make sure the next generation isnt as unhealthy as the current one.
There has been a general trend against smoking for decades, the new bans are a good step forward.
Only because we have RADICALLY! reduced the number of smokers in this country over the past few decades. had the trend gone the other way and millions more had started smoking then the figures would be very different.
1000s die everyyear because they smoke, i want to see that number fall just as i would want to see the number of people killed on our roads fall. I dont really care if some people get pleasure from damaging themselves.
People take pleasure from doing drugs, its still illegal
I sympathize. We own a bar in Ohio. SHS/ETS doesn't kill; SMOKING BANS KILL. They kill bar, taverns, pubs, freedom, BUSINESS. Freedom of choise. Hairy for World Ruler.
if i could i would vote for you to be prime minister hairy. but i am american so i cannot. but truely agree with your massege of choice. hope in end you come out victorios, and that historical pub is restored!
Yes, the trouble is that many non smokers, in particular the ones who campaign against it and the MPs who voted for the ban, (many of whom were non smokers), have no concept of what it is to be a happy smoker. We live a life which has it's fair share of shite, and one of the things which us smokers enjoy in this web of ups and downs is having a smoke. Many non smokers are not at all bothered by having friends who smoke. I am running out of characters, so I am going to continue...................
continuation...hehe...so, where was I, oh yes, many of those MPs who voted for the ban did not have a clue about what being a happy smoker is - to try and explain it to them would be like trying to show a dog a card trick. Like I said, we have a life with it's fair share of shite, then we are given more shite when we cannot do one of the things which makes us happy, have a smoke.
Dorm, would you advise young people to start smoking or advise them against it? or do you not care either way?
Polls always show most smokers want to give up, but its an addiction and ofcourse its not so easy. I have a few addictions myself and i can understand how hard it is to break such habbits.
But surely you would want to try and help others NOT to start smoking in the first place?
The polls you mention are those fantasy polls created by ASH and exist for the sole purpose of justifying yet another one of their demands on the NHS.
The biggest burden on the British taxpayer is the anti smoking movement. They demand evermore exorbitant funding, they drain council tax on enforcing bans that destroy the economy. And they force the NHS to buy and supply nicotine replacement therapy to people that never wanted to quit in the first place.
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Millions of people try to give up smoking, many fail but the fact they TRY suggests people do want to give up.
The cost of getting people off smoking now is worth it compared to taking no action and allowing a continued damage to this countries national health.
If the policies (smoking ban being just one thing) were not taken then we wouldnt be seeing a fall in the number of smokers, it would be rising. And if that rose, it would lead to huge cost increases.
By the way, thanks for all the comments, TBW. You've managed to almost single handedly push me up into 7th place on "most discussed today" on the honours list.
I think you'll find that smoking rates have been falling at a steady pace for years through education and people's own choice.
I think you'll also find that smoking rates will increase now after an initial drop - this is what has happened in almost every other country where such despicable policies like a blanket ban have been in place. This policy will 100% fail with regard to smoking prevalence rates.
Many have re-started smoking out of sheer disgust of this policy
Millions of people try to give up smoking, many fail, but the fact they TRY suggests they have been browbeaten into trying, the fact they FAIL indicates they didn't really WANT to stop.
Smoking actually contributes at LEAST 4 x the supposed 'costs'.
Bans are counter-productive & often lead to INCREASES in smoking!
Please don't give people thumbs down, we need to see all points as most smokers are reasonable people.
Your 1st para is another point of discussion altogether. All I can say is this. If an activity meets some peoples needs, but contains an element of risk, do we ban it? Religion can seriously damage a person and others around them, so should we ban it? Alcohol can create physical damage to the user and innocent bystanders, so should we ban it? Sex outside of marriage can make an unwanted pregnancy and cause STIs, shall we ban it? As for para 2, do you still believe polls? - silly boy.
I have just watched this video whilst sitting here with a can of beer, cigarette in hand and lamenting someone else's misery at not being able to go to his beloved pub...Shame on me! I should be fighting for your pub, and mine, and everyone else's but I can't be bothered cos I've got my can of beer, cigarette and sitting in my home, wallowing in what I have lost without lifting a finger, shame on me!
the pub industry is finished. In some cases pubs are nearly a thousand years old in this country; they have survived war, invasion, economic recession after ecomomic recession, plague and revoloution yet one poxy government introduces one poxy smoking ban and it kills them. Madness. What the government have done is sub-human.
(Paid for by the HairyChestnuts from Prime Minister campaign.)
Okay...now you say, "I'm HairyChestnuts and I approve this message.
LOL, sorry. Maybe that's an American thing.
Honbestly, all the pubs closing in record numbers after being open for business for CENTURIES! They can survive anything, except the "ban it" mentality.
Okay, here's the plan. Win the lottery. Buy the pub. Get Tony and Katie back. Only invite friends and get back to normal.
There may be "hope" however, in the form of this financial crisis. For example, in Atlantic City, NJ (former home of the Miss America Pageant), a planned smoking ban in all casinos, foisted upon the casinos by local "town council" despots which was to go into effect 10/15 has been "postponed" by a year. They cited the fact that too many jobs were likely to be lost by the already floundering hospitality biz. A small win, but we'll take it!
Natural Order of Things:
The drinking bone is connected to the smoking bone!
The real cancer is Big Brother's continual encroachment on individual liberties.
RoadTweeker 2 years ago
Omfg Fuck the Fucking government!!!! I see theyve destroyed your life as well as mine
daveravegin 3 years ago 2
Well done Hairy.The sooner this ban is changed to allow Landlords CHOICE the better.The Anti-Smokers can then turn their hatred on exhaust fumes etc.
exocet123 3 years ago 2
Whilst the smoking ban has had an impact, im sorry to say there has probably been a general trend for several years of a decline in the number of people going to pubs.
Thats markets and freedom of choice. Alot of people today would rather go to clubs or similiar venues rather than the small local pub.
There are several pubs near where i live, one is always full (and responsible for some anti social behaviour), another two are almost empty every night. Demand for small local pubs is falling
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
You really ARE a dumb F@$%!
There is currently Northern Hemisphere COOLING, it's going to get damned COLD! That's going to drive even MORE smokers from pubs!
Because you think you know what's best for everyone, you want smoking bans, drinking bans & probably FUN bans too
You really can't see the control element in all of this can you?
Not too worry, whatever small pleasure you have, I'm damned sure I'm not going to fight for YOU when they come for you!
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago
As i said i accept the smoking ban has had an impact, however the same ban applys to restaurants and clubs and yet many of them still manage to attract large numbers of people. If pubs were this perfect place that everyone wanted to go it wouldnt face the problems it does today.
Some pubs have changed and turned into a more family location, offering better food and a nicer environment.. Thats a change for the good in my view.
I dont want to ban u smoking, just help encourage u to stop :)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
What RIGHT do you have to ENCOURAGE me or anyone else to stop smoking?
Look at what happened elsewhere.
Bans have the OPPOSITE effect to that 'desired'.
Anything else apart from smoking & drinking that you want to 'encourage' me to do/stop doing?
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago
I have a right to say what i like within the laws of these lands. The government has a right to encourage people to do certain things or stop doing certain things because they have to look after tax payers interests and this countries future health and well being
Id encourage u to excerise, not eat too much, not drink too much, not smoke, not stare at a screen too much, not walk on railways, not do drugs, not get into fights. Theres a big list and its right the government tries to prevent it
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
The only way this country can continue to afford the NHS is through prevention. So instead of waiting for someone to damage their liver, lungs, heart or general health the government has to try and encourage social change.
It can do that by making it harder for smokers to hurt others, making it more inconvienent for people to smoke, making it more expensive to smoke.
Banning fatty foods, doubling PE in schools. Its right the govenment do those sorts of things
We want a healthier country.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
"Alot of people today would rather go to clubs or similiar venues rather than the small local pub."
Read: A lot of CHILDREN today would rather go to clubs or similar venues rather than the small local pub.
Even they're having a hard time with the smoking ban!
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago
Indeed the smoking ban impacts on many places not just pubs but there probably isnt the same level of closures for large clubs as there is pubs.
If the market isnt there then thats life. Thats the risk people take when they start a business.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
I should have said earlier Phil, sorry about your pub. :(
I had many a happy hour (including lock-ins) in the pubs around Norwich.
As I said once before, I was at RAF Colt.
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago 2
And thats closed too, though we can't blame the smoking ban for that. But I bet the recruiting sergeant isn't so lively nowadays (apart from the screaming kids since its been more a family restuarent than a pub for years).
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
I went back last year, (I was in the area).
I nearly cried with the memories of the Jaguars & the closing of yet another part of our defences.
I even got permission for a quick tour around. from the skeleton staff there.
It was very emotional for me, having spent most of my service life there.
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago
Go see the vid response. Gotta love 'em :D
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago
Sorry to hear your pub is boarded up. Hairy,this Government do not care how many they put out of work or homes. Ventilation/air filtration should have been the way forward,for those Landlords/Ladies who wanted that choice.The smoke haters were never BANNED from investing THEIR own money into smoke-free venues.
I cannot believe the pubs that have gone bankrupt or suffered losses are not suing the likes of ASH.Bans DO harm business as many other Countries will soon work out for themselves.
xyzto1 3 years ago 2
Spain is a great place to go, I have been 3 times this year, I will not go to any intolerant Country, I spend my "smokers money" where myself and Hubby (never smoked) can share our leisure time together. So this Country and many others are out!
freedom2choose info for tolerant non-smokers and smoker alike, we will fight for choice and the lies and propaganda.
mandyv
xyzto1 3 years ago
You see, the Spanish seem to have the right idea. Very recently I spent a marvelous fortnight in Alcaudete, Jaen. Whilst there I enjoyed numerous days and nights smoking in every bar I went to. The Spanish have this policy over there which is: Smoking is permitted in this bar, If you don't like smoke... don't drink in this bar. Simple idea really, not only that, it cost me a mere 2.45 euros for a pack of fags. Viva Espana!
pyparuk 3 years ago 2
Sounds like heaven, pyparauk. Why is it that we British need lessons in civilized society from the Spanish? If we were the beacon of civilization that we used to consider ourselves, then we would have lead the world in ousting these anti smoking leaches from power.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
As Phil reported some time ago, just about everywhere else APART from Britain is protesting these bans!
What the F@$% happened to the British Bulldog?
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago 2
My mother never lit a cigarette in her life. She never was interested. She died in her 60s from lung cancer.
My aunt, her older sister, was a chain smoker from age 17 until her death at 93. Do the math! That's 2.25 million cigarettes. She quit work at 90 because of failing eyesight. And she died of old age.
It's a crapshoot. Period. Yes, you're going to die if you smoke. But guess what? You're going to die just as surely if you don't.
Light up and live!
DiddleySquatt 3 years ago 3
I know Helen some friends who have. Even my dad is considering it and he's quit for almost 20 years!!
prochoicechuckles85 3 years ago 2
yes well done TBW- maybe you should start taxing McDonalds next.
prochoicechuckles85 3 years ago 2
There is also one other thing perhaps i should remind you all about. If you didnt spend the money on drink and tobacco that you do then you would spend it on other things in the economy or save the money.. Both of those things would be good for our economy without damaging our National Health Service and other public services :)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
You really are a fool when it comes to economics. Whatever we spend our money on, we pay tax. But the best things to spend it on are things we enjoy. That way, we don't mind so much that we are all being bled dry by the highest taxation in the world. You should cheer us on for smoking and drinking, because the more we do it, the less you have to pay in tax on whatever sad little inexpensive thing you do all alone in your room before bedtime.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
Buying a Japanese/Chinese et al, car, TV, HiFi & whatever else you wish to buy does our balance of trade a deal of good.
For a very small trade deficit the government gets a canny return on cigarettes.
People die!
Of all the 'smoking related deaths in the SCOTH report, something like 40% died ABOVE median age.
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago 3
Did you know btw that Virgin Atlantic got very close to losing one £BILLION in the Halifax?
Saving sounds like a great idea!
Iceland's bankrupt & they're trying to sort out a rescue package.
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago 2
The government protects peoples savings up to £50,000 Now unless you have a very serious smoking problem i dont think that many would make that much of a saving to risk losing it. They certainly wouldnt be able to save a billion pounds by giving up smoking.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
And they prevaricated over that too. Unless they were forced by the actions of other states, they weren't going to protect ANYONE.
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago
It was 35 and they raised it to 50 to keep the conservatives happy. That still protects the vast majority of British savers. Again most people wouldnt save over £50,000 by giving up smoking.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Less than 20% of direct smoking and drinking taxation is spent on treating smokers and drinkers in the NHS, infact while smokers and drinkers are enjoying themselves they are propping up the economy.
Hopefully all you non smoking pious moaners will be glad to hear that you are each paying nearly £200 per year in extra taxation to pay for the smoking ban experiment, adverts, councilling, flyers, NRT etc, money that you could have spent on heating your homes etc.
Botswana7 3 years ago 4
revenue from tobacco does make more than current costs to the NHS however we have to look at the long term and those prices would rise RADICALLY if we allowed the level of smokers to grow rather than shrink as it is currently
As for drinking, this costs us FAR more than we raise in revenue today. When you take into account the huge costs to the NHS, Criminal justice system, police, money lost from unproductivity, the list on drinking costs is endless
Im happy to pay 200 to reduce those things
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
British Watcher, Clearly your grasp of economics is woefully inadequate.
Also glad that you are happy to pay out £200 per year extra, are you Gordon Brown in disguise?
Botswana7 3 years ago 3
Hmm well im no expert on economic issues perhaps you could explain where i went wrong? I said if people didnt spend money on tabacco they would spend it some other way, helping a different part of the economy.
No im not gordon brown, the majority of the population support the smoking ban and dont smoke.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
But the majority you refer to don't own pubs. The majority of pub goers and pub OWNERS are opposed to the smoking ban.
By your concept of majority rules however, if the majority of the British people wanted to persecute jews, would that make it right?
Of course not, yet by that same principle, you believe it ok to persecute smokers.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
If you were right and smoking really kills people, then by reducing smoking rates we would cause people to live longer. And as you're probably aware if you'd really done your research, that one of the biggest drains on the NHS is the fact that people are living longer. So you wish to reduce smoking rates, therefore reduce NHS revenue, and by doing so increase NHS expenditure. Your sad little anti smoking, anti alcohol, anti pleasure utopia is a contradiction of itself.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
I'm getting heartily sick of no marks like you TheBritishWatcher who think they have a right to stick their runny noses into other peoples life! You are prepared to see a business go to the wall with all the personal damage that causes to a family just because??? Because of what really, you and your ilk don't like the smell of tobacco? Or are you just easily led by the liars who can't get any evidence that SHS kills. It's smoking bans that kill.
John H Baker
TheBigYinme 3 years ago 9
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My problem with pubs is to do with this countries drink problem and nothing to do with the tobacco issue, which is why i said its good that its kind of killing two birds with one stone. Sadly half of all violent crime is linked to drink, many cases happen in town and city centers across this country. The cost is too high to society
There is clear evidence showing exposure to someone smoking tobacco can damage that non smokers health so damn right it should be banned in public enclosed places.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
The so called drink problem you refer to is a problem of a minority of young people getting out of hand on a saturday night. Simple solution, arrest people for being drunk and disorderly if they get out of hand. But don't punish everybody for the behaviour of a minority. Especially not to appease the selfish anti alcohol demands of an even smaller minority.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
What problem TheBritishWatcher? It seems you have a problem with drink, not the people of this country! Like smoking, drinking alcohol is only a problem to those who do not like it, not to those that do. I think the 'drink' problem is in your head. The majority of drinkers drink sensibly, as do smokers.
John H Baker
TheBigYinme 3 years ago 3
You spelt centre wrongly.....you must be a Mad American! Taken in by the propaganda about SHS........It's all lies! Do your homework! Jo
SalsaJo2 3 years ago
Sorry but plenty of people make spelling mistakes online, myself included. I have spent too much time talking with Americans online sometimes you pick up on the language.
I am British. If i was an American i would be against social healthcare, which i am not. I support socialized healthcare like our NHS, but with such great rights comes responsibilities. One of those is to look after the body as best you can, which means we have to encourage people to live a HEALTHY life.
Smoking aint healthy
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
So British Watcher your saying our bodies belong to the state?? I thought slavery was abolished in 1833!!
prochoicechuckles85 3 years ago 2
no i never said our bodies belong to the state. I dont support a complete ban on smoking or drinking, even though they are damaging habbits. Freedom of choice by the individual must be maintained, but it doesnt mean our government and society shouldnt try to help shape those habbits into a more healthy lifestyle.
The British people pay for the NHS, most of them dont want it abused and misused by people who should take their health more seriously.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
I agree with what you are saying British Watcher, but I think the anger that us smokers are feeling is because it's all very one sided. There was no compromise at all when there could have easily been one, like smoking rooms with ventilation, instead of being forced outside in the freezing cold, wet weather. And also, the amount of elitist comments that we recieve by anti-smokers, give me quid for every time I've had a filthy look while smoking OUTSIDE, or a rude remark, I'd be a rich girlie!
PuffyAmiYumi 3 years ago
I agree it is one sided and i can understand the anger, but i think whats being done is the right thing. Its what they call "tough love" in my opinion. I understand its an addiction for many people, or that some people just smoke because of choice and they do have the freedom to choose but we have to protect other peoples rights and we have to do EVERYTHING possible to encourage people NOT to start smoking
I dont know how long you have been smoking, but if you could go back would u start again?
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
@TheBritishWatcher The stresses of living in this world is not healthy either but yet we are born we live & we die. No one has the right to tell another how to live! Too many seniors alive & well lived though the smoking eras today. This is all media anti's brainwashing. After smoking 37 years I wish it killed me because I can't stand what this world become. But yet I'm healthy? For what reason? God knows but to be stuck in a world that our freedom rights are taken away by nazis? No thank you!
Godzie1 10 months ago
Such a shame that there are still people about who have no concept of enjoyment or the possible enjoyment of others. Perhaps if we all sat at home boiling cabbage you would deem this suitable practice-but then we would only be reboiling you head you numpty.
handymanphil 3 years ago 9
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Most smokers want to quit, that is what all the research says. The government is trying to HELP these people.
If the person gives up smoking they will be healthier and save ALOT of money. Freedom of choice will always be vital in a free society but its right to put people off something that will damage them.
All adictions are bad, and surely as a smoker u would hope the next generation dont get addicted if you are?
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Most smokers DON'T want to quit!
They are being pressured from all sides by the propaganda so they try!
The failure rate doesn't show commitment to quitting!
Dave
PS
I second DAVBRUBU; PILLOCK!
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago 3
TBW, not you Hairy!
DAVBRUBU 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Overturning the smoking ban wouldnt have a huge impact on the economy as a whole. Also we have to look at the long term, the ban on smoking in public places and pubs is helping to make people quit.
We have to think of the long term health conditions of the nation. People need to get off the drink and tobacco if the NHS is to survive. Whilst i feel sorry for those landlords who lose money and their businesses.. i wont cry about pubs closing its a good thing.
Welcome to the 21st century. :)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Tobacco tax pays for the NHS, reducing smoking rates will reduce revenue and ultimately harm the NHS. And as for your claim that pubs closing is a good thing. You are clearly an anti social type that doesn't understand the concept of social interaction. Enjoy your sterile sad little friendless world, you're welcome to it.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I fully accept the government makes alot of revenues from taxes on smokers, however it is nowhere near enough. From the table i have seen the government raises about 10 billion a year from taxes on tobacco, but we should double that to take into account all the jobs created because of the industry.
20 billion is alot of money, but when you consider we spend over 100 BILLION a year for the NHS in England alone, it puts it into context. We must act to reduce the drain on such things.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Drink has a far bigger impact on our country than tobacco does although both are bad. Which is why its kind of killing two birds with one stone as they say if forcing pubs to enforce a smoking ban helps A) reduce the numbers going to pubs and B) reduces the number of people smoking.
The number of smokers is falling in this country which is a good thing, and we must do more. Also we do have to break the community hub of pubs. This country has a drink problem, and pubs are part of the problem.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Everywhere that smoking bans come into force, a small initial decline in smoking rates is soon followed by a rise. Ireland now has higher smoking prevalance than before their ban.
According to our own government figures, alledged smoking related diseases cost the NHS 1.8 billion a year to treat. Therefore smokers pay for both their own treatment fivefold.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
I say alledged smoking related diseases because the list includes anything that a smoker has ever died from, despite the fact that it has never been proven that smoking was responsible for a single death. If you hate smoking, don't do it. If you hate drinking don't drink. But don't impose your petty selfish demands on others.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
As i mentioned before Drink is a bigger issue than tobacco, but there is clear scientific evidence showing smoking is a health risk and increases the chances of cancer, therefor we would be foolish and irresponsible to not try to stop this
if it was every man for himself then yes its up to you how you live your life. Sadly we have an NHS paid for by the tax payer and we dont want our money wasted because people choose to abuse their body
Its right we prevent the next generation from doing it
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
That 1.8 figure was from 1997, the most recent report (a week ago) puts the cost far more around the 2.7 billion mark for England alone so if we looked at the whole UK its probably 3.5 billion.
What the report also states is the efforts taken to reduce smoking has prevented those costs from rising more. We have to ensure the next generation isnt as unhealthy as the current one, and yes part of that means clamping down on tobacco and trying to radically reduce smoker levels
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
TBWatcher, What they should do next is ban computer use in Libraries so trolls like you will lose access to the internet.
Gil2727 3 years ago 4
Well i have a computer and use the internet at home. This is not just about smokers, it is about the state having a responsibility for the next generation to try and prevent mistakes of the past
That means we must stop kids getting fat by more school PE, stop them turning to drugs by more law enforcment / anti drug education, stop them from turning to drink (which costs this country BILLIONS more than we make in revenues) and yes reduce the number of smokers by making it inconvenient to smoke
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
And it's fairly obvious you never used the pub, or smoked, so why is it such a big issue?
Even with your revised figures, smoking contributes 4 x the supposed cost.
As you don't use the pub anyhow because you're a rabid anti-drink campaigner too, how does the smoking ban affect you??
Your name isn't Gordon Brown is it?
Dave
DrDave953 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
As a tax payer everyones unhealthy actions are a concern to me. Again this country has a national health service where people are treated for free in most cases. I therefor expect people to take some responsibility and for our government to try and make sure the next generation isnt as unhealthy as the current one.
There has been a general trend against smoking for decades, the new bans are a good step forward.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
The problem is, people are TOO healthy & therefore living too long.
If you had your way, we may not live to 200 but it sure as hell will FEEL as if we had!
What's life without pleasure?
There you go again. The 'general trend'. So you bring in a ban likely to reverse that trend.
Makes a perverse sort of sense to me.
Once again, smokers MORE than pay for any drain they are on the NHS!
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago
Only because we have RADICALLY! reduced the number of smokers in this country over the past few decades. had the trend gone the other way and millions more had started smoking then the figures would be very different.
1000s die everyyear because they smoke, i want to see that number fall just as i would want to see the number of people killed on our roads fall. I dont really care if some people get pleasure from damaging themselves.
People take pleasure from doing drugs, its still illegal
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
pillock
DAVBRUBU 3 years ago 4
I sympathize. We own a bar in Ohio. SHS/ETS doesn't kill; SMOKING BANS KILL. They kill bar, taverns, pubs, freedom, BUSINESS. Freedom of choise. Hairy for World Ruler.
OpponentsOfOhioBans 3 years ago 8
if i could i would vote for you to be prime minister hairy. but i am american so i cannot. but truely agree with your massege of choice. hope in end you come out victorios, and that historical pub is restored!
God bless, Ivanova
ivanova88 3 years ago 4
It was. Now I'm stumped for a new venue, and it looks like my second choice down the road will be the next to go.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
Yes, the trouble is that many non smokers, in particular the ones who campaign against it and the MPs who voted for the ban, (many of whom were non smokers), have no concept of what it is to be a happy smoker. We live a life which has it's fair share of shite, and one of the things which us smokers enjoy in this web of ups and downs is having a smoke. Many non smokers are not at all bothered by having friends who smoke. I am running out of characters, so I am going to continue...................
Dorm2003 3 years ago 6
continuation...hehe...so, where was I, oh yes, many of those MPs who voted for the ban did not have a clue about what being a happy smoker is - to try and explain it to them would be like trying to show a dog a card trick. Like I said, we have a life with it's fair share of shite, then we are given more shite when we cannot do one of the things which makes us happy, have a smoke.
Dorm2003 3 years ago 6
Dorm, would you advise young people to start smoking or advise them against it? or do you not care either way?
Polls always show most smokers want to give up, but its an addiction and ofcourse its not so easy. I have a few addictions myself and i can understand how hard it is to break such habbits.
But surely you would want to try and help others NOT to start smoking in the first place?
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
The polls you mention are those fantasy polls created by ASH and exist for the sole purpose of justifying yet another one of their demands on the NHS.
The biggest burden on the British taxpayer is the anti smoking movement. They demand evermore exorbitant funding, they drain council tax on enforcing bans that destroy the economy. And they force the NHS to buy and supply nicotine replacement therapy to people that never wanted to quit in the first place.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Millions of people try to give up smoking, many fail but the fact they TRY suggests people do want to give up.
The cost of getting people off smoking now is worth it compared to taking no action and allowing a continued damage to this countries national health.
If the policies (smoking ban being just one thing) were not taken then we wouldnt be seeing a fall in the number of smokers, it would be rising. And if that rose, it would lead to huge cost increases.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
By the way, thanks for all the comments, TBW. You've managed to almost single handedly push me up into 7th place on "most discussed today" on the honours list.
HairyChestnuts 3 years ago
I think you'll find that smoking rates have been falling at a steady pace for years through education and people's own choice.
I think you'll also find that smoking rates will increase now after an initial drop - this is what has happened in almost every other country where such despicable policies like a blanket ban have been in place. This policy will 100% fail with regard to smoking prevalence rates.
Many have re-started smoking out of sheer disgust of this policy
helend498 3 years ago 5
Millions of people try to give up smoking, many fail, but the fact they TRY suggests they have been browbeaten into trying, the fact they FAIL indicates they didn't really WANT to stop.
Smoking actually contributes at LEAST 4 x the supposed 'costs'.
Bans are counter-productive & often lead to INCREASES in smoking!
Please don't give people thumbs down, we need to see all points as most smokers are reasonable people.
Dave.
DrDave953 3 years ago 3
Your 1st para is another point of discussion altogether. All I can say is this. If an activity meets some peoples needs, but contains an element of risk, do we ban it? Religion can seriously damage a person and others around them, so should we ban it? Alcohol can create physical damage to the user and innocent bystanders, so should we ban it? Sex outside of marriage can make an unwanted pregnancy and cause STIs, shall we ban it? As for para 2, do you still believe polls? - silly boy.
Dorm2003 3 years ago 3
That last comment of mine was a reply to TBW by the way lol
Dorm2003 3 years ago 3
I have just watched this video whilst sitting here with a can of beer, cigarette in hand and lamenting someone else's misery at not being able to go to his beloved pub...Shame on me! I should be fighting for your pub, and mine, and everyone else's but I can't be bothered cos I've got my can of beer, cigarette and sitting in my home, wallowing in what I have lost without lifting a finger, shame on me!
John H Baker
TheBigYinme 3 years ago 6
the pub industry is finished. In some cases pubs are nearly a thousand years old in this country; they have survived war, invasion, economic recession after ecomomic recession, plague and revoloution yet one poxy government introduces one poxy smoking ban and it kills them. Madness. What the government have done is sub-human.
THUMBS UP IF YOU AGREE
thegoodlife25 3 years ago 16
Put HairyChestnuts in charge!!!
(Paid for by the HairyChestnuts from Prime Minister campaign.)
Okay...now you say, "I'm HairyChestnuts and I approve this message.
LOL, sorry. Maybe that's an American thing.
Honbestly, all the pubs closing in record numbers after being open for business for CENTURIES! They can survive anything, except the "ban it" mentality.
Okay, here's the plan. Win the lottery. Buy the pub. Get Tony and Katie back. Only invite friends and get back to normal.
DancingTigerBait 3 years ago 9
It's a bummer to be sure. You have my sympathies.
There may be "hope" however, in the form of this financial crisis. For example, in Atlantic City, NJ (former home of the Miss America Pageant), a planned smoking ban in all casinos, foisted upon the casinos by local "town council" despots which was to go into effect 10/15 has been "postponed" by a year. They cited the fact that too many jobs were likely to be lost by the already floundering hospitality biz. A small win, but we'll take it!
MzProgressive 3 years ago 7