Mike With Alternative Energy Summer Camp

[leopreston1]

Way to go!

[greyflcn]

Anyways, for extra range, and to reduce costs, obviously plugin hybrids are the most logical choice for the forseeable future.

greyfalcon. net/ plugins

greyfalcon. net/ volt

However as the cost of batteries decrease, getting the range up shouldn't be an issue.

Oh yeah, and I completely forgot about the Zap-X

greyfalcon. net/ electriccars.png

[minitrini05]

I agree battery technology will improve over time and so will electric vehicles but keep in mind, a fuel cell vehicle is an electric vehicle.

I'm not sure if I'm such a big fan of hybrids because it's not a zero-emissions vehicle. I do like plug-ins but I prefer all electric or fuel cell electric zero emission vehicles. (just my personal preference though)

[greyflcn]

Well nothing is truely zero emmision.

However what I am a big fan of is a specific type of hybrid.

It's a "Series Plugin Hybrid"

A conventional "Plugin Hybrid" or "Parallel Plugin Hybrid" is just a Prius with a bigger battery.

A series plugin hybrid is an electric car, just like any other electric car.

Except that it has a small electric generator attached which does nothing but recharge the batteries for longer trips.

[greyflcn]

Wouldn't it be easier (and more efficient) to run an electric motor directly from the solar panel electricity?

greyfalcon. net/ hydrogen4.png

It's not like batteries are any slouch on refueling speed anymore.

greyfalcon. net/ quickcharge

greyfalcon. net/ quickcharge3 (<--- 80% charge in 1 minute)

[minitrini05]

We actually did run using the solar panels but when there was an insufficient amount of sunlight or when we wanted run the cars inside, we used the fuel cells

Batteries make perfectly good sense and can be a better solution than fuel cells if the battery can last long enough to make a trip. The top battery-powered EV vehicles get up a little 200 miles(see Tesla roadster)

The Top fuel cell vehicles get about 300-350 mile ranges(see the GM Chevrolet Sequel and Honda FCX)

[greyflcn]

Except that those fuel cell vehicles are concept models, and the EVs are production models.

If cost is not an object you can cram more range into an electric vehicle rather easily. But the range is kept shorter based on the cost of the vehicle.

Besides which, Tesla isn't even using Lithium Polymer.

They are just using generic Lithium to keep costs low.

[logiclost]

Lithium polymer offers no advantages over regular litihum technologies other than size and cell configuration. The only fundamental difference is a flexable plastic substrate. Li-Po batteries are also become exponentially more expensive when you get into high discharge rates. The cost of Li-Po EV to the kind of performance and range you are talking about and you could easily buy a high power stack even at todays technology and pricing.

[greyflcn]

Well, both the Zap and Phoenix Truck are going to be Li-Po

greyfalcon. net/ electriccars.png

[greyflcn]

Besides which, both those cars cheat by using woefully underpowered engines to increase the range.

greyfalcon. net/ electriccars2.png

[LTUElementOne]

PV solar arrays at this point in time can not power an electric motor powerful enough to satisfy the demands of consumers.

This model has many downfalls, the first being infrastructure. Do you have 420 Volt, 90 Amp service at home? Creating and storing hydrogen over long period does not require extensive overhaul of the existing grid.

[greyflcn]

==Creating and storing hydrogen over long period does not require extensive overhaul of the existing grid.==

Uhm yeah it does, if you want it to be any better than gasoline in emissions.

greyfalcon. net/ hydrogen2.png

Perhaps you're not aware that hydrogen loses over 75% of the original energy if you store it from electricity.

Hydrogen is actually a very bad storage medium for electricity compared.

electricitystorage. org/ technologies.htm

Plugin hybrids are the immediate solution.

[LTUElementOne]

Again you are assuming that you are creating the hydrogen from electrolysis and that the energy used to do so comes from using coal burning powerplants. If you are using electrolysis for zero-emissions resources, the only carbon footprint you are looking at is that made to build the equipment. (We are aware of the energy loss, that's called the laws of thermodynamics) Hydrogen is also an industrial byproduct in quite a few processes and can be reclaimed for use.

[greyflcn]

And you think that replacing the entire electrical grid with renewables. (And not just renewables, but over 4x as many as would be needed if it were just electric) Would be a cakewalk in terms of infrastructure costs.

Then you're out of your mind, thats a HUGE GIGANTIC ASTRONOMICAL infrastructure cost.