all of vietnam is communist today... and its acctually a beautiful country with a democratic election for president... so anyone who died in the war to fight vietnam died for nothing... fuck you stupid christian americans who think every war is justified, quit lying to yourself and quit killing our troops
The young ugly man who asked the question and the fact that people didn't get on board with Mike Gravel only proved one thing : amerikkka is a nation of house niggaz HYPOCRITES, BIG TIME.
House niggaz are slaves who regard their enslavement as a blessing.
Gravel and Kucinich were the only Democratic candidates from 2008 who recognized the evil of U.S. imperialism. The rest of the candidates were chickenshit, deeply conservative, deeply pro-war candidates, and Obama has proven that about himself in office.
@newdimensionfilms He didn't because he is postering himself to win an election. But Gravel was right soldiers generally die in vain. War is hardly justifiable except for serious humanitarian crises like genocide and possibly direct defense. Other than that...these pre-emptive attacks and nation building through war is ridiculous. You can't change someone by force. You'll only make them hate you more.
They only died in vain because the stupid American public with their anti-war mentality let them down. RVN military died in vain all 250K. Watch 'Frontline' with Neil Davis. And read 'Vietnam, the media and lies' by Bill Laurie.
@twinqletwinqle That useless war could have ended months earlier, but that war criminal Kissinger told the north vietnamese to back out of a peace treaty talk because he wanted a seat in the whtehouse wth nixon. Countless American soldiers died so that piece of shit could further his own career. That war was a complete disaster and a waste of taxpayers money and lives Watch the documentary on Kissinger hes a war criminal just like bush and cheney !
@JHK1976 I've watched that doco a while back. U mean the South Vietnamese not North were talked out of the peace agreement.
That doco didn't tell u that the NVN/VC were the aggressors, they never stopped &couldn't have been trusted to 'not attack' the South. They knew that if the South had more time, they would have a stronger gov, thereby refuting the whole 'fighting imperialism' BS reason the VC/NVN were using to 'takeover' VN. RVN were being attacked - they had to defend (Hue Massacre etc)
@twinqletwinqle Do you realize the entire time the South was fighting the North, the U.S. was giving aid to the Soviets and the Soviets were giving aid the North?
@JHK1976@JHK1976 It's offensive to say that it was a 'useless war'. It isn't useless if you have to defend your home and family from rapists, terrorists and murderers. If someone came to your house and demanded you leave or they'll attack your children would you let them do it?
The world would be so different if people like Gravel were allowed to be president...Whenever I see a person like Gravel, I get a small sense of hope, kind of like how Winston looked at Goldstein in the book 1984.
@Boomoutgothelights unfortunately those of us that want people like Gravel for president will not happen,because people like him do not bow to the whip and the higher ups in the government that say "sit,stay.beg,and you will get a treat",people like Gravel unless of course he was just putting on a show i believe would be good for all not just rep. or demo. i think for all unfortunately as we all know it is money and power that put people in charge sadly i do not see us having a fair pres.
the only one who answered the question without long rounds was gravel, because it was the only honest one, i can only believe he is a great guy because he never won, americans like hypocrytes and they got one now, biggest proof we're still in Iraq...
We could have defeated vietanam with our culture like what has already happened now (his quote about baskin robbins) instead of sending troops then. Actually we should have minded our business in the first place, but the west can't do that either
No....they did not just "die in vain"....they laid their lives down for Wall Street and the "federal reserve bank" .....the same "federal reserve bank" that directly or indirectly financed the shipment of "surplus" wheat to the soviets then to make fuel for the B-40 rockets like the one that sank our mail barge with all hands aboard right in the Saigon R....and like the one that blew up right in the superstructure of the Swathmore Vickie just 200 yards behind us. And that was 1000 X worse
You have the guy elected to go around pumping everyone up and getting them excited, and then you have the guy that comes along to calm everyone down when they get too rowdy. That is America. Everything else behind the scenes goes completely according to plan and NOTHING changes. The president is only there to PACIFY people while those of us who are capable of seeing through the charade have to watch in horror as we continue to fight wars, destroy the environment, and build our crumbling empire.
Any soldier who dies, dies in vain - death is always a bad thing. Ideally, our troops shouldn't be dying when we engage in conflicts, the people who should be dying are the people we're fighting against.
Those lads who where killed in Vietnam where forgotten along time ago.
World war one (the war to end all wars)
how do grown men believe war is peace!!?
A fucking child realizes that everyone who dies in a war followed up by another war dies in vain.
by the way i love American's really. It just makes me mad there government is killing and killing and when people speak out "hey.. that's Americana of u"
Yeap... 100% puppet show by all except Gravel. All establishment hacks, even Kucinich, who got his injection on Air Force One with Barry latter on in the great game. Great we have video showing the BS of establishment politicians.
Mike Gravel and Ron Paul are the few true people's representatives left even in 2010. Look for Fascism/Corporatism/Marxism to take more for themselves and the Money Master puppeteers.
Gravel didn't really answer the question, he just repeated himself from a previous debate.
Question: How do you expect to win with that statement and how are you going to defend it? I was hoping he'd defend it a bit more and go into more detail on that view. I do agree with him though.
I think Obama had a good answer, but it was all lies.
I have to say, Obama answered the question very eloquently without discoraging the military. If you noticed he put the blame on the civilian leadership which is where the blame belongs. (George Bush)
BORN IN THE USA. The country where you send kids to die for lobbyist interests, send them into the fire without armor, pass bills that take their rights and fiscal security when (if) they come home, drop them off without the skills they need to succeed and allow them to live in squalor and destitution for the rest of their pathetic lives. But don't say any of this out loud, because that's what supporting the troops is all about.
To mr obama and the rest of the little puppets, the question was did they die in vain....not did they do what they're told. Of course they do what they're told.
Since King Philip's War in 1675 (people won't know Vietnam any better in a hundred years) the US hasn't had more than a 35-year gap between war involvement. Since WWI began in 1914, we have been in WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Bay of Pigs, the Persian Gulf War, the Invasion of Afghanistan, and the Invasion of Iraq.
Boys were drafted into Vietnam, there were mass protests, and many veterans are now severely disturbed or homeless. We lost.
nobody except gravel actually answered the question... anyone else notice that? it's just a bunch of typical "moderate liberal democrat" political garbage. blame bush, end the war... yeah right
i love how gravel just came right out and said his views while obama pretty said a speech and evaded the question alot. Not saying it was a bad thing i just liked Gravel's response much better
I think what he meant by dying in vain is that the individual soldier or even the whole platoon is not remembered by normal civilians in the long run... and that even though those wars have helped us achieve domanance and we should be thankful for that.. it hasn't secured peace in the best way possible.. that it could have been handled differently instead of by force because in doing we have become someones enemy in our search for freedom... and that those wars could have been prevented.
@gham619 Nope that's not what he meant. Gravel in '71 helped get the Pentagon Papers into the public record. He knows (and you would too if you read them, go google!) that they were LIED to, as the public was about the Vietnam War. That's what he means died in vain. They originally thought they were protecting the world from the spread of Communism, and supporting a 'democracy' under Diem (a brutal tyrant and puppet of the US and the French before that.)
@jimbobeire I don't have to read anything to know that... almost every war in the past century has been a LIE look at the iraqi or the entire middle eastern war... We know it was useless... I just don't like going into detail about potitics and details because thats not whats important its the big picture of the people involved. Thats why he said whats worse than soilders dying in vain is more soilders dying in vain... because in the end they all die in vain unless we lie and say otherwise.
Gulf of tonkin was totally false flag operation devised by lovely government officials. And that bullshit got us so much deeper in the war- for what? more bullshit? 58000 soldiers go there to get killed for what? bull made up by officials? They died purely in vain. worse- millions of vietnamese were murdered by US
I think people need to come to the realization that all governments are steeped in corruption. If they are not then why do the same issues come up over and over again throughout history. History repeats over and over again. The next governmental system comes in and something else is way off course and corrupt. People keep falling for the same promises over and over. Nothing has changed but the people telling you what you want to hear. Vietnam = Iraq= ? Do the math.
prisoners still in guantanamo,still no higher command inquiry investigation, still no public trials,but more bombings on Pakistani border, more troops to Afganistan, and pirvete military corporation run war/post -war in Iraq. mr obama, act now or we'll soon know you're fake :)
McNamara now admits that the gulf of tonkin never happened. Author Antony Sutton wrote in detail how wall street and American bankers funded the Vietnamese through the Soviet Union. If the reason that they were there was a lie... and how their enemy was armed was a lie.... what more could lead you to believe that the troops died in vain. The United States military is muscle for capitalism. Look into the CIA and its activities of overthrowing democratically elected leaders.
Our way of life is over, these people have sold us out to many times. Its time for us to stand up and take our freedom back, lies, lies, lies, how many more lies are we gonna take.
Wow, Mike, very passionate. Although I don't necessarily agree with the statement Vietnam soldiers died in vain, I wish I could go back in time and vote for you.
when WW2 enden USA took over nazi job... just with a bit dirrence. make jews friends and together kill all muslims in the world and make every others slave to its nations.
Yes they did, this man is right, think, my dad was in WW2 and that was what was called the war to end all wars! and we all know that can't be real right? as we all can see what has happened since then.
Stop and really think, at almost any given moment on this planet there has been some sort of type fo war going on with no large gaps between wars. We really must like killing each other for the elite class of people which would not surpise me if the bet on who can kill the most!
The issues don't even matter anymore...I wish they did, but they don't, and you know why? Its because of our political system. We will never fix our health care system, our education system, the war on drugs, our foreign policy, our debt, our environment, etc, etc until we have fixed our political system, unless we the Americans kick about 99% of congress out of Washington and DEMAND accountability and cooperation from our government, we must do this before we can accomplish anything
I am also a Vet myself, thankfully I never saw war during my enlistment. I have total respect for all military vets who have fought and gave thier lives for us. Why not thank a vet instead of deminishing what they went through. People need to realize the true cost of war, they need to see it on TV every night know the cost we are paying. I am 5th generation Army from my family. So I realize how precious our military is to us. I just don't want to see any more die over simple greed. end the wars!
End the wars is the right thing to do. I am in total support of our troops and bringing them home. However, our soldiers have died in vain for the wars of Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan. I think our soldiers have done what they were told and have done it with exceptional talent and loyalty. For that they earn the greatest of our respect, but their deaths for these conflicts is most certainly in vain, we cant change that, but we can end its recurrence.
thank you. Well said, I hold the troops close to my heart. Some of my friends are in the military, I support them and thank them for their loyalty. But I give NO thanks to those who support and endorse this war that are in our political officees. The wars in the MIddle East are being fought for the Military Industrial Complex of the US and abroad, and im damned tired of hearing it said that the terrorists are a threat to us. Hell, the Soviets could've annihilated us and we didnt go to war!
The fact remains that we are simply being conned by the elites of this nation. They have poor business practices, and we are supposed to save them from bankruptcy with our tax dollars. Utter bullshit. They are criminals, and I'm tired of the country being ran by the elusive elitist shadow government run by the banks and the military industrial complex.
Final comment. But understand, not every politician is a monster, but many of them have strings on their shoulders that are being dangled from the rich and powerful, whether they are aware of it or not, whether they asked for it or not. I support my politicians, including my President Mr. Obama. History will show him to be a wise president or not, until then, I will have confidence in him and im not sorry i voted for him.
I would not say that the Vietnam Vets died in vain, to say 58,423 men gave thier lives for nothing would be an insult to thier memories. To me they died based on greed wintin our own government. We made them fight the war with thier hands tied and limited to thier decision making capabilitys. It was a war for profit. Just like Eisenhower and Kennedy tried to warn the people about. My father is a Vietnam Vet who enlisted in 67 and went willingly. Purple heart awarded. Also 3 Uncles fought there.
They all said no, the troops didn't die in vain. They said they didn't because they did what they were ordered to do. What if the government who gives the order is giving the order for reasons other than defending our country. The order itself is wrong and therefore the soldiers dying for a wrong order would in fact be dying in vain. Basically for their answers to be logical that would mean they would have to support the wars which right after they said they didn't. Politicians are snakes.
Obama and Edwards are mealymouthed, question-dodging fucks.
Mike Gravel was written off because he's honest. Because he'd challenge the premise of the loaded questions thrown at him instead of playing along. Saying that the troops are dying in vain isn't an insult to them. If anything, it is the only sane position to be taken by anyone who actually cares about them and doesn't want to throw away any more lives.
I don't see why saying that soldiers died in vain is equivalent to saying they're no good, to some people.
Even if they died in vain, they were brave soldiers carrying out their missions who happened to be in the wrong war. Nothing against the soldiers when you say their deaths were in vain, it's against the stupid politicians there setting them up for those deaths.
Those soldiers DID NOTdie in vain,and they got treated like SHIT when they got home. They went over their and followed orders like they were supposed. They died for their country.
Did my fellow vets in the Gulf war die in vain? No! They went and of free will and were glad to do it. I know it was a little diffrent. They were drafted they had NO CHOICE You should THANK GOD for those men and women! They did what they HAD TO DO! I and my fellow Gulf War vets didn't! Think about it!
What they had to do? Explain why we needed to fight in the Vietnam war. I don't thank god for those men and woman having to fight on a foreign field in a brutal war or attrition for an unjust cause.
Yea, I'm very disappointed in Obama's response. I agree 100% with Gravel on this issue... it's ridiculous that anyone would dispute it in the first place. The ONLY war in the past 100 years where no one died in vain was.... hmm, nothing comes to mind. They could have ALL been avoided.
I ask all those who said they didn't die in vain.. do you not know wtf the definition of vain is? They're dieing to accomplish NOTHING, if that isn't in dieing in vain, idk what is.
well, some of them died in accommodating the troops, some died in giving medical support to soldiers and civilians. Those soldiers died not in vain. Anyone dying in aggression, yep, they died in vain, courtesy of LBJ and Richard Nixon.
they didnt die in vain because they followed orders? nice dodge.
so, if some rich asshole sitting behind a desk sent them in bikinis to the south pole to kill of some penguins, and died out of cold...their deaths would not have been in vain?
NBC is a pro liberal/democrat station. While FOX is mostly Conservative/GOP. FOX news really is more "fair and balanced". NBC's coverage is what got that braindead loser Obama elected! NBC can go suck itself!
"Oh no, dont let us face the truth! We really like the idea of liberty! Oh please dont make us admit it was all about heroin! *Cough* Afghanistan *Cough*" ...sorry there's alot of opium smoke in here...the amount of heroin here since US in Afghanistan has gone up huge amounts as has quality...afghanistan produces 98% of the worlds heroin. Look it up.
The reason Gravel was able to speak his mind is because he knew he didn't have a chance of winning. I think he was dead on, but you have to play to the crowd to get elected.
My hope is that Obama feels the same way, but he didn't want to lose because of it.
I wanna punch that kid that asked the question in the face. Gravel isn't the typical bullshit politician, get the fuck out of here with that flip flop shit.
It's like saying if you boss told you to run downtown to grab his car keys, and you went there and you find out the car keys were in his pocket, you did that in vain. All of our troops since WWII have died in great vain, and anyone who says otherwise or scoots around the question is unworthy of leading us.
Does the guy asking the question say a large chunk of voters would be offended by someone SAYING it happened instead of the FACT that it actually happened? Strange.
Edwards did NOT say anything that he did vote for himself. Gravel went deep into the problem, Edwards blamed Bush, which edwards vote for this War. You can't speak the Truth if you are part of the problem.
That is like a husband who beats his wife and then say I love you, I'm sorry. Voting for the war means he caved and that he has NO moral Courage...Don't give me that I am sorry crap...Mike Gravel never said I am sorry for anything. Because when you do what you feel is right you never have to say I am sorry.
Did he have something going on with a Staffer as well. Yeah, That is the kind of person I Respect. He is playing people like you like a fiddle. I don't trust his new found stance on Truth, this is the problem they talk about the half truth. They never get down deep into the problem, and reasons we have these problems. Like I said they use Half-Truth or even Quarter-Truths and you people that have been institutionalized Eat that all up.
amen and absolutely correct. The State department allowed the plans for a gycerol factory to be sold to Russia, therefore allowing Russia to provide the glycerol to the VC to make the booby traps, due to a state depart policy statement in 1966.
Control both sides of the conflict; thus u control the outcome
"I know of this network because I have studied it for 20 years & was permitted for 2 years in the early 1960s 2 examine its papers & secret records.
secretly controls the government in the US [CFR]. Both the Republican & Democratic parties are controlled by an international Anglophile network" that stages elections. - Dr. Carroll Quigley Tragedy & Hope
I also just noticed that part of both Edwards and Obama's responses were to compliment other top tier candidates, while not even mentioning Gravel. Hmmm...
America is full of SHEEPLE too pre-occupied with "American Idol, & Dancing with the Stars" to care about anything important. Americans don't even question their government for starting unjustified wars like IRAQ. It had nothing to do with 9/11, they had no weapons of mass destruction. AND so what if they did? Why is America allowed to have weapons and no one else? Why can the U.S. bomb anyone simply because they don't like them and Americans think it's their right to do so?
So please save the patriotic bullshit for a sheeple who believe in redirect and well rehearsed lies. 911 was an Implosion plain and simple 8 second freefall from jet fuel? Yah right. 170 tons of Concrete to dust? Melted steel ? lol we deserve a leadership who plays us like a fiddle from hell. Not to mention a Law enforcement who has zero respect for our citizen and our constitution.
This country has allot of sheeple ,infected with ignorance, racism and religious delusion. Its pretty hard to ask them to reason. The Patriot Act is a Good Example of dying in Vain. Simple fact we gave everything we stood for away at the 1st sign of fear. So yes they die in vain everyday...
As soon as Obama starts talking you can just tell that its all bullshit. When you go from gravel right to obama you can just hear the fakeness in his voice.
Yet if we did nothing, communism would have been spread farther by the Chinese-powered Vietnamese (including the Chinese themselves) to places like Japan, Korea, India, Pakistan ETC ETC. Be happy we weakened the VietCong.
The Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out because of America's commitment in Vietnam. , Communism would have swept all the way to south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.
Why was there a war in vietnam ?
bkingbasil 2 weeks ago
Wow that was such a loaded question, I can't believe that CNN actually allowed that question through, considering how condescending it was.
Good job Gravel, owning that question and the person who asked it.
IamCanadian3333 3 weeks ago
How I now dislike this duo of Barak and Billary!!
Magenta408 1 month ago
all of vietnam is communist today... and its acctually a beautiful country with a democratic election for president... so anyone who died in the war to fight vietnam died for nothing... fuck you stupid christian americans who think every war is justified, quit lying to yourself and quit killing our troops
wildboy789789 3 months ago 2
Dear Senator Gravel,
The concerned citizens of the US miss you this time around in 2012. We wish you were on stage once again. Cheers!
LibertyMike1 4 months ago 2
The young ugly man who asked the question and the fact that people didn't get on board with Mike Gravel only proved one thing : amerikkka is a nation of house niggaz HYPOCRITES, BIG TIME.
House niggaz are slaves who regard their enslavement as a blessing.
MrSayonara7777 5 months ago 2
Gravel and Kucinich were the only Democratic candidates from 2008 who recognized the evil of U.S. imperialism. The rest of the candidates were chickenshit, deeply conservative, deeply pro-war candidates, and Obama has proven that about himself in office.
SamFromNT 5 months ago 2
See how Obama didn't answer the question?
newdimensionfilms 5 months ago
@newdimensionfilms He didn't because he is postering himself to win an election. But Gravel was right soldiers generally die in vain. War is hardly justifiable except for serious humanitarian crises like genocide and possibly direct defense. Other than that...these pre-emptive attacks and nation building through war is ridiculous. You can't change someone by force. You'll only make them hate you more.
whateverman181 5 months ago
i wish people like mike gravel would run for president again, a guy who sticks to his guns
conraddoavil 6 months ago
Edwards pointing his glass finger on those taking a "vacation" is hilarious being that he's now serving one in a "gated-community"! LOL!!!!
ouluvme2 7 months ago
my man! the president that the people would shalt not want.
he was too good to be true.
pinfold1000 7 months ago
They only died in vain because the stupid American public with their anti-war mentality let them down. RVN military died in vain all 250K. Watch 'Frontline' with Neil Davis. And read 'Vietnam, the media and lies' by Bill Laurie.
twinqletwinqle 8 months ago
@twinqletwinqle That useless war could have ended months earlier, but that war criminal Kissinger told the north vietnamese to back out of a peace treaty talk because he wanted a seat in the whtehouse wth nixon. Countless American soldiers died so that piece of shit could further his own career. That war was a complete disaster and a waste of taxpayers money and lives Watch the documentary on Kissinger hes a war criminal just like bush and cheney !
JHK1976 7 months ago 3
@JHK1976 I've watched that doco a while back. U mean the South Vietnamese not North were talked out of the peace agreement.
That doco didn't tell u that the NVN/VC were the aggressors, they never stopped &couldn't have been trusted to 'not attack' the South. They knew that if the South had more time, they would have a stronger gov, thereby refuting the whole 'fighting imperialism' BS reason the VC/NVN were using to 'takeover' VN. RVN were being attacked - they had to defend (Hue Massacre etc)
twinqletwinqle 7 months ago
@twinqletwinqle Do you realize the entire time the South was fighting the North, the U.S. was giving aid to the Soviets and the Soviets were giving aid the North?
libertyeconomics 5 months ago 2
@JHK1976 @JHK1976 It's offensive to say that it was a 'useless war'. It isn't useless if you have to defend your home and family from rapists, terrorists and murderers. If someone came to your house and demanded you leave or they'll attack your children would you let them do it?
twinqletwinqle 7 months ago
@JHK1976 watch?v=26NkXQvvPMI
twinqletwinqle 7 months ago
The world would be so different if people like Gravel were allowed to be president...Whenever I see a person like Gravel, I get a small sense of hope, kind of like how Winston looked at Goldstein in the book 1984.
Boomoutgothelights 8 months ago
@Boomoutgothelights unfortunately those of us that want people like Gravel for president will not happen,because people like him do not bow to the whip and the higher ups in the government that say "sit,stay.beg,and you will get a treat",people like Gravel unless of course he was just putting on a show i believe would be good for all not just rep. or demo. i think for all unfortunately as we all know it is money and power that put people in charge sadly i do not see us having a fair pres.
johndebbra 8 months ago
the only one who answered the question without long rounds was gravel, because it was the only honest one, i can only believe he is a great guy because he never won, americans like hypocrytes and they got one now, biggest proof we're still in Iraq...
lookingAclass 8 months ago
This guy would be next to the best thing to President Eisenhower!
eb2600 9 months ago
Fuck you Obama... Liar.
jackooboy1 9 months ago 4
its like they can't understand the question
mangymantis 9 months ago
So why exactly are we in Libya? And all without a declaration of war...
BTCBRIN 10 months ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
We could have defeated vietanam with our culture like what has already happened now (his quote about baskin robbins) instead of sending troops then. Actually we should have minded our business in the first place, but the west can't do that either
Alcavexus 10 months ago
Comment removed
Alcavexus 10 months ago
We solved more in peace and commerce with Vietnam than in 20 years of war...60,000 men plus 2 million civilians. Time for the national initiative.
LiberalCast 10 months ago 2
No....they did not just "die in vain"....they laid their lives down for Wall Street and the "federal reserve bank" .....the same "federal reserve bank" that directly or indirectly financed the shipment of "surplus" wheat to the soviets then to make fuel for the B-40 rockets like the one that sank our mail barge with all hands aboard right in the Saigon R....and like the one that blew up right in the superstructure of the Swathmore Vickie just 200 yards behind us. And that was 1000 X worse
dasUBootVII 10 months ago 6
I like to think they died to show us how tragic it is to engage in empire building.
kangalanatolian 11 months ago 2
You have the guy elected to go around pumping everyone up and getting them excited, and then you have the guy that comes along to calm everyone down when they get too rowdy. That is America. Everything else behind the scenes goes completely according to plan and NOTHING changes. The president is only there to PACIFY people while those of us who are capable of seeing through the charade have to watch in horror as we continue to fight wars, destroy the environment, and build our crumbling empire.
lollard 1 year ago
obama is a slave to the system. Fuk you.
southpark3003 1 year ago 3
Any soldier who dies, dies in vain - death is always a bad thing. Ideally, our troops shouldn't be dying when we engage in conflicts, the people who should be dying are the people we're fighting against.
LordAkaneon 1 year ago
Mike Gravel never fucking lies!! But the lies from Obama and Edwards spew like sewage!!
watertonrivers 1 year ago 6
"what did all these soldiers DIE FOR"!
i could feel that passion through my whole body.
eggheadAKAspensley 1 year ago 6
Those lads who where killed in Vietnam where forgotten along time ago.
World war one (the war to end all wars)
how do grown men believe war is peace!!?
A fucking child realizes that everyone who dies in a war followed up by another war dies in vain.
by the way i love American's really. It just makes me mad there government is killing and killing and when people speak out "hey.. that's Americana of u"
OK AMERICA DOOM US ALL!!!!
eggheadAKAspensley 1 year ago
In America it is more important not to offend rich people than know the truth.
A BIG FUCK U AMERICA!!!!!
eggheadAKAspensley 1 year ago 2
Yeap... 100% puppet show by all except Gravel. All establishment hacks, even Kucinich, who got his injection on Air Force One with Barry latter on in the great game. Great we have video showing the BS of establishment politicians.
Mike Gravel and Ron Paul are the few true people's representatives left even in 2010. Look for Fascism/Corporatism/Marxism to take more for themselves and the Money Master puppeteers.
SocialistsSteal 1 year ago 2
Ron Paul. That's the person you want.
harryinitiative 1 year ago 4
The answer is yes you dumb assholes. John Edwards is a joke.
nothingtolose3234 1 year ago 4
Gravel didn't really answer the question, he just repeated himself from a previous debate.
Question: How do you expect to win with that statement and how are you going to defend it? I was hoping he'd defend it a bit more and go into more detail on that view. I do agree with him though.
I think Obama had a good answer, but it was all lies.
LadySeraph 1 year ago
>:o لالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالالا
nnasser007 1 year ago
fucking edwards, basically he said this "no i dont think our soldiers die in vain as long as they do as their told."
MRGENERATIONADD 1 year ago
I have to say, Obama answered the question very eloquently without discoraging the military. If you noticed he put the blame on the civilian leadership which is where the blame belongs. (George Bush)
scfloyd1 1 year ago
@scfloyd1 like a good little lap dog. you sheep.
machogun 1 year ago
@machogun 58,000 died for what? We are trading with Vietnam today.
scfloyd1 1 year ago 3
@scfloyd1 died for nothing. died because they were led on a leash by a lie.
machogun 1 year ago
Actually he was the only one that was honest on the stage.
scfloyd1 1 year ago
BORN IN THE USA. The country where you send kids to die for lobbyist interests, send them into the fire without armor, pass bills that take their rights and fiscal security when (if) they come home, drop them off without the skills they need to succeed and allow them to live in squalor and destitution for the rest of their pathetic lives. But don't say any of this out loud, because that's what supporting the troops is all about.
MyNameIsBucket 1 year ago 3
Burn Barack!
CoonStomper88 1 year ago 4
nader paul kucinich gravel mckinney
free your mind & the rest will follow
ryanshaunkelly 1 year ago 2
To mr obama and the rest of the little puppets, the question was did they die in vain....not did they do what they're told. Of course they do what they're told.
jtizz711 1 year ago 3
Since King Philip's War in 1675 (people won't know Vietnam any better in a hundred years) the US hasn't had more than a 35-year gap between war involvement. Since WWI began in 1914, we have been in WWII, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Bay of Pigs, the Persian Gulf War, the Invasion of Afghanistan, and the Invasion of Iraq.
Boys were drafted into Vietnam, there were mass protests, and many veterans are now severely disturbed or homeless. We lost.
But "in vain" sounds bad, so let's lie.
Hounoki 1 year ago
nobody except gravel actually answered the question... anyone else notice that? it's just a bunch of typical "moderate liberal democrat" political garbage. blame bush, end the war... yeah right
AnarchyRules17 1 year ago 3
You can see the passion in his eyes
TheBigBlueNargle 1 year ago 2
i love how gravel just came right out and said his views while obama pretty said a speech and evaded the question alot. Not saying it was a bad thing i just liked Gravel's response much better
ffinfinity1 1 year ago
I think what he meant by dying in vain is that the individual soldier or even the whole platoon is not remembered by normal civilians in the long run... and that even though those wars have helped us achieve domanance and we should be thankful for that.. it hasn't secured peace in the best way possible.. that it could have been handled differently instead of by force because in doing we have become someones enemy in our search for freedom... and that those wars could have been prevented.
gham619 1 year ago
@gham619 Nope that's not what he meant. Gravel in '71 helped get the Pentagon Papers into the public record. He knows (and you would too if you read them, go google!) that they were LIED to, as the public was about the Vietnam War. That's what he means died in vain. They originally thought they were protecting the world from the spread of Communism, and supporting a 'democracy' under Diem (a brutal tyrant and puppet of the US and the French before that.)
jimbobeire 1 year ago
@jimbobeire I don't have to read anything to know that... almost every war in the past century has been a LIE look at the iraqi or the entire middle eastern war... We know it was useless... I just don't like going into detail about potitics and details because thats not whats important its the big picture of the people involved. Thats why he said whats worse than soilders dying in vain is more soilders dying in vain... because in the end they all die in vain unless we lie and say otherwise.
gham619 1 year ago
You have to give Gravel some credit whether you agree or not, didn't flip-flop at all...came right out and answered, quite refreshing.
kokoth 1 year ago 3
FUCK OBAMA!
DJFG85 1 year ago
Gulf of tonkin was totally false flag operation devised by lovely government officials. And that bullshit got us so much deeper in the war- for what? more bullshit? 58000 soldiers go there to get killed for what? bull made up by officials? They died purely in vain. worse- millions of vietnamese were murdered by US
swu880 1 year ago 2
fuck obama
laetrille 1 year ago
- Going to war for a reason that is irrelevant to national security
- Almost 60,000 die in the course of almost 9 years due to a highly inferior military
- Withdraw =/= lose the war
How is this not dying in vain?
AbyssCrown 1 year ago
did they died?
sitnam44 1 year ago
I think people need to come to the realization that all governments are steeped in corruption. If they are not then why do the same issues come up over and over again throughout history. History repeats over and over again. The next governmental system comes in and something else is way off course and corrupt. People keep falling for the same promises over and over. Nothing has changed but the people telling you what you want to hear. Vietnam = Iraq= ? Do the math.
ladivadivala 1 year ago 4
i can't see any change yet mr obama.
prisoners still in guantanamo,still no higher command inquiry investigation, still no public trials,but more bombings on Pakistani border, more troops to Afganistan, and pirvete military corporation run war/post -war in Iraq. mr obama, act now or we'll soon know you're fake :)
czakoo 1 year ago 8
@czakoo- AGREED!
ellaelizabeth 1 year ago
Obama is no liberal he is a Neocon
sgsfdgfsdfsdfsddf 2 years ago 4
He never has been, and never will be a liberal.
DaHonestAbe 1 year ago 2
Gravel owns them all.
LOL
bugsycline 2 years ago 14
@bugsycline gravel is a carbon tax new world order shill.. it was all a show. thats all it was
adam3176 7 months ago
@adam3176 You're a fucking idiot !!! The only fake here is you STFU !!
JHK1976 7 months ago
@adam3176 I just found Gravel and think he seems pretty sound like Ron Paul - what's your NWO gripe with him and proof?
ouluvme2 7 months ago
@ouluvme2
I Like ron paul even better, although mike gravel is good.
jmjfanss 5 months ago
Obama is incredibly cheap and evasive.
SecondsToLast 2 years ago 6
good for you mike gravel
jshohio 2 years ago 3
McNamara now admits that the gulf of tonkin never happened. Author Antony Sutton wrote in detail how wall street and American bankers funded the Vietnamese through the Soviet Union. If the reason that they were there was a lie... and how their enemy was armed was a lie.... what more could lead you to believe that the troops died in vain. The United States military is muscle for capitalism. Look into the CIA and its activities of overthrowing democratically elected leaders.
martinez85 2 years ago 5
Our way of life is over, these people have sold us out to many times. Its time for us to stand up and take our freedom back, lies, lies, lies, how many more lies are we gonna take.
jimmyajp 2 years ago 2
as many as they can put a shiny lucrative polish on, evidently. I truly wonder if there is a civil way out of this problem
scarletletterman84 2 years ago
Hey Mr. Obama, send 30,000 more troops and then come on down to pick up your Nobel Peace Prize!
Thrice13 2 years ago 4
Everyone enjoying the puppet show? The only people not puppets on the stage are Mike, and Dennis
RageAgainstNWO 2 years ago 43
Lol! Obama speaks against the war while he was continuing to vote for funding the war!
NoEoAoRo 2 years ago 5
typical beat around the bush answers from politicians. i fucks with Gravel, at least he kept it real
chainzdown2dadik 2 years ago 2
Wow, Mike, very passionate. Although I don't necessarily agree with the statement Vietnam soldiers died in vain, I wish I could go back in time and vote for you.
eziekial101 2 years ago
they died so corporations could get a foothold in there.
ZenMuadDib1 2 years ago
when WW2 enden USA took over nazi job... just with a bit dirrence. make jews friends and together kill all muslims in the world and make every others slave to its nations.
Tobias8164 2 years ago 2
Obongo the joker. What a communist ass!
Niacin11 2 years ago
Obama >> "When I'm president of the United States . . . "
hmm...very interesting...
IFIRIEIEID 2 years ago 4
Yes they did, this man is right, think, my dad was in WW2 and that was what was called the war to end all wars! and we all know that can't be real right? as we all can see what has happened since then.
Stop and really think, at almost any given moment on this planet there has been some sort of type fo war going on with no large gaps between wars. We really must like killing each other for the elite class of people which would not surpise me if the bet on who can kill the most!
warisbs 2 years ago 2
The questioner is horrible arrogant and irreverent -- not to mention wrong.
The first major anti-war protests in the US were during Vietnam because people thought the soldiers were dying in vain.
ThatsMyPurseLOL 2 years ago 7
with every war, the new world order gets profit by more means:
1) Cash profit
2) Depopulation
3) Conquering Land and OIL
If we all woke up to see the whole picture..
We might have a chance to not become Slave to the fucking Elite
ArghusDae 2 years ago
J
E
W
S
elpoo 2 years ago
Oh shut the fuck up. Go learn some more conspiracies from the internet.
Kingdedede2008 2 years ago
The issues don't even matter anymore...I wish they did, but they don't, and you know why? Its because of our political system. We will never fix our health care system, our education system, the war on drugs, our foreign policy, our debt, our environment, etc, etc until we have fixed our political system, unless we the Americans kick about 99% of congress out of Washington and DEMAND accountability and cooperation from our government, we must do this before we can accomplish anything
m8cct 2 years ago 2
I am also a Vet myself, thankfully I never saw war during my enlistment. I have total respect for all military vets who have fought and gave thier lives for us. Why not thank a vet instead of deminishing what they went through. People need to realize the true cost of war, they need to see it on TV every night know the cost we are paying. I am 5th generation Army from my family. So I realize how precious our military is to us. I just don't want to see any more die over simple greed. end the wars!
Sixxstring1 2 years ago
End the wars is the right thing to do. I am in total support of our troops and bringing them home. However, our soldiers have died in vain for the wars of Vietnam, Korea, Iraq and Afghanistan. I think our soldiers have done what they were told and have done it with exceptional talent and loyalty. For that they earn the greatest of our respect, but their deaths for these conflicts is most certainly in vain, we cant change that, but we can end its recurrence.
philosoraptor4e 2 years ago
thank you. Well said, I hold the troops close to my heart. Some of my friends are in the military, I support them and thank them for their loyalty. But I give NO thanks to those who support and endorse this war that are in our political officees. The wars in the MIddle East are being fought for the Military Industrial Complex of the US and abroad, and im damned tired of hearing it said that the terrorists are a threat to us. Hell, the Soviets could've annihilated us and we didnt go to war!
mythelist 2 years ago
The fact remains that we are simply being conned by the elites of this nation. They have poor business practices, and we are supposed to save them from bankruptcy with our tax dollars. Utter bullshit. They are criminals, and I'm tired of the country being ran by the elusive elitist shadow government run by the banks and the military industrial complex.
mythelist 2 years ago
Final comment. But understand, not every politician is a monster, but many of them have strings on their shoulders that are being dangled from the rich and powerful, whether they are aware of it or not, whether they asked for it or not. I support my politicians, including my President Mr. Obama. History will show him to be a wise president or not, until then, I will have confidence in him and im not sorry i voted for him.
mythelist 2 years ago
I would not say that the Vietnam Vets died in vain, to say 58,423 men gave thier lives for nothing would be an insult to thier memories. To me they died based on greed wintin our own government. We made them fight the war with thier hands tied and limited to thier decision making capabilitys. It was a war for profit. Just like Eisenhower and Kennedy tried to warn the people about. My father is a Vietnam Vet who enlisted in 67 and went willingly. Purple heart awarded. Also 3 Uncles fought there.
Sixxstring1 2 years ago 2
They all said no, the troops didn't die in vain. They said they didn't because they did what they were ordered to do. What if the government who gives the order is giving the order for reasons other than defending our country. The order itself is wrong and therefore the soldiers dying for a wrong order would in fact be dying in vain. Basically for their answers to be logical that would mean they would have to support the wars which right after they said they didn't. Politicians are snakes.
philosoraptor4e 2 years ago
Obama and Edwards are mealymouthed, question-dodging fucks.
Mike Gravel was written off because he's honest. Because he'd challenge the premise of the loaded questions thrown at him instead of playing along. Saying that the troops are dying in vain isn't an insult to them. If anything, it is the only sane position to be taken by anyone who actually cares about them and doesn't want to throw away any more lives.
SecondsToLast 2 years ago 3
did he die?
DronkMonkey666 2 years ago
I don't see why saying that soldiers died in vain is equivalent to saying they're no good, to some people.
Even if they died in vain, they were brave soldiers carrying out their missions who happened to be in the wrong war. Nothing against the soldiers when you say their deaths were in vain, it's against the stupid politicians there setting them up for those deaths.
MyOverflow 2 years ago 3
did he die?
DronkMonkey666 2 years ago
in vain
treskall1 2 years ago
Mike Gravel, the best president we never had.
MadMatt521 2 years ago 3
mike gravel and ron paul!!! RON PAUL 2012!
Luffyqueen 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
how on earth does Gravel think he is qualified to be the president?
he always seems mad everytime he answers a question.
crumcon 2 years ago
Those soldiers DID NOTdie in vain,and they got treated like SHIT when they got home. They went over their and followed orders like they were supposed. They died for their country.
Did my fellow vets in the Gulf war die in vain? No! They went and of free will and were glad to do it. I know it was a little diffrent. They were drafted they had NO CHOICE You should THANK GOD for those men and women! They did what they HAD TO DO! I and my fellow Gulf War vets didn't! Think about it!
Guitarman5150 2 years ago
What they had to do? Explain why we needed to fight in the Vietnam war. I don't thank god for those men and woman having to fight on a foreign field in a brutal war or attrition for an unjust cause.
AsleepWithDragons 2 years ago 3
Did he die?
MeowsyDancer 2 years ago
2:04 The election was rigged.
Deathmaker2354 2 years ago 2
MIKE GRAVEL!!!
ladderladder283 2 years ago 3
Obama,,,, never can answer a question directly..... what an idiot LOL
minman66 2 years ago 5
Yea, I'm very disappointed in Obama's response. I agree 100% with Gravel on this issue... it's ridiculous that anyone would dispute it in the first place. The ONLY war in the past 100 years where no one died in vain was.... hmm, nothing comes to mind. They could have ALL been avoided.
I ask all those who said they didn't die in vain.. do you not know wtf the definition of vain is? They're dieing to accomplish NOTHING, if that isn't in dieing in vain, idk what is.
bbuysse15 2 years ago 4
"Did Vietnam Vets Die in vain?"
well, some of them died in accommodating the troops, some died in giving medical support to soldiers and civilians. Those soldiers died not in vain. Anyone dying in aggression, yep, they died in vain, courtesy of LBJ and Richard Nixon.
RationalEmotive 2 years ago
two words: national initiative!
its not to late, and if you want change you better fight for it.
v1660 2 years ago 3
they didnt die in vain because they followed orders? nice dodge.
so, if some rich asshole sitting behind a desk sent them in bikinis to the south pole to kill of some penguins, and died out of cold...their deaths would not have been in vain?
v1660 2 years ago 6
Gravel for Sec. of Rock Throwing. He's a fucking badass.
tuxfred 3 years ago 29
This comment has received too many negative votes show
gravel.... rock throwing.... ahahahahaha!!!
opie353 2 years ago
NBC is a pro liberal/democrat station. While FOX is mostly Conservative/GOP. FOX news really is more "fair and balanced". NBC's coverage is what got that braindead loser Obama elected! NBC can go suck itself!
Gravel is THE MAN!
FireTiger941 3 years ago
Your mean you support Fixed News?!?!?!
laetrille 2 years ago 2
What a bad motherfucker...wow.
If i'd been there I'd have been on my feet cheering.
KidVolcano 3 years ago 5
"Oh no, dont let us face the truth! We really like the idea of liberty! Oh please dont make us admit it was all about heroin! *Cough* Afghanistan *Cough*" ...sorry there's alot of opium smoke in here...the amount of heroin here since US in Afghanistan has gone up huge amounts as has quality...afghanistan produces 98% of the worlds heroin. Look it up.
Smudge357 3 years ago 4
and there was almost no opium being grown while the Taliban was in charge...funny...
And Kharzi was a druglord in the 80s...
KidVolcano 3 years ago
Barr, Gravel, Paul, Baldwin, McKinney and Mooore are the only people who can represent the America people anymore
cruciblelion 3 years ago 4
Straight talk.
MoarSpore 3 years ago
obama has no balls he such a pussie he is to afraid for his campaign he will not speak his mind he will only say wat he thinks u want him to say
njj37 3 years ago 3
The reason Gravel was able to speak his mind is because he knew he didn't have a chance of winning. I think he was dead on, but you have to play to the crowd to get elected.
My hope is that Obama feels the same way, but he didn't want to lose because of it.
HoleDweller 3 years ago
Obama doesn't even answer the question...
Mr. Gravel, you are my man! I really have great respect for you!
BosnAce 3 years ago 6
Gravel was just too real. Americans want to be lied to.
stopplayingchurch 3 years ago 6
I wanna punch that kid that asked the question in the face. Gravel isn't the typical bullshit politician, get the fuck out of here with that flip flop shit.
bedlam36 3 years ago 7
It's like saying if you boss told you to run downtown to grab his car keys, and you went there and you find out the car keys were in his pocket, you did that in vain. All of our troops since WWII have died in great vain, and anyone who says otherwise or scoots around the question is unworthy of leading us.
impikmin 3 years ago 4
I can give you a thumbs up or down until I know what you think of the WW2 soldiers.
Did they die in vain????
laetrille 2 years ago
If Gravel was a better public speaker, he'd of been taken more seriously.
Yoseman1 3 years ago
Who exactly is Gravel?
politicsaustralia 3 years ago
Does the guy asking the question say a large chunk of voters would be offended by someone SAYING it happened instead of the FACT that it actually happened? Strange.
fegu 3 years ago
not in vain the died so the rich made alot of money so America could be knocked off the gold standard.
dave777blaster 3 years ago
Our soldiers die in vain!
Thrice13 3 years ago
Gravel and Edwards turned up the heat.
jmjfanss 3 years ago
Edwards?
Voiceofjon 3 years ago
Yes he did, edwards spoke the damn truth here.
jmjfanss 3 years ago
Edwards did NOT say anything that he did vote for himself. Gravel went deep into the problem, Edwards blamed Bush, which edwards vote for this War. You can't speak the Truth if you are part of the problem.
Voiceofjon 3 years ago
But Edwards admits he regrets his vote for the war and he's sorry.
jmjfanss 3 years ago
That is like a husband who beats his wife and then say I love you, I'm sorry. Voting for the war means he caved and that he has NO moral Courage...Don't give me that I am sorry crap...Mike Gravel never said I am sorry for anything. Because when you do what you feel is right you never have to say I am sorry.
Voiceofjon 3 years ago
But edwards admitted what he did was wrong and I Respect him now.
jmjfanss 3 years ago
Did he have something going on with a Staffer as well. Yeah, That is the kind of person I Respect. He is playing people like you like a fiddle. I don't trust his new found stance on Truth, this is the problem they talk about the half truth. They never get down deep into the problem, and reasons we have these problems. Like I said they use Half-Truth or even Quarter-Truths and you people that have been institutionalized Eat that all up.
Voiceofjon 3 years ago
That's because edwards redeemed himself as a man now.
jmjfanss 3 years ago
You are a proprangda machine and you will never listen to what I have to say about it. So please lets end this right now... We are done...
Voiceofjon 3 years ago
Propaganda*
Voiceofjon 3 years ago
personal relations
seamweld123 3 years ago
God, it is so easy to tell who the phony suckers are. Gravel so outclasses them in his honesty.
LennyNero80 3 years ago 3
I've never seen Gravel that pissed off. Dain, I want to interview him and Ron Paul!
BrianScarface 3 years ago 3
Only Gravel had any balls and speaks the truth the rest are empire ass-kissing lackies!!
sanacore4643 3 years ago 4
except for Kucinich.
fourtyblinks 3 years ago 3
amen and absolutely correct. The State department allowed the plans for a gycerol factory to be sold to Russia, therefore allowing Russia to provide the glycerol to the VC to make the booby traps, due to a state depart policy statement in 1966.
tgambill 3 years ago
Reason he rarely got questions. They are afraid of his balls.
SpraxIAKS 3 years ago 2
Hegelian Dialectic:
Control both sides of the conflict; thus u control the outcome
"I know of this network because I have studied it for 20 years & was permitted for 2 years in the early 1960s 2 examine its papers & secret records.
secretly controls the government in the US [CFR]. Both the Republican & Democratic parties are controlled by an international Anglophile network" that stages elections. - Dr. Carroll Quigley Tragedy & Hope
CFR Zbig supports Obama & he "appeared" to win.
peace :)
haansgruber 3 years ago
I also just noticed that part of both Edwards and Obama's responses were to compliment other top tier candidates, while not even mentioning Gravel. Hmmm...
OldCottage2 3 years ago 3
gravel knocked that b*tch out of the park
Hostiletakeover1 3 years ago 5
I love Gravel.
America is full of SHEEPLE too pre-occupied with "American Idol, & Dancing with the Stars" to care about anything important. Americans don't even question their government for starting unjustified wars like IRAQ. It had nothing to do with 9/11, they had no weapons of mass destruction. AND so what if they did? Why is America allowed to have weapons and no one else? Why can the U.S. bomb anyone simply because they don't like them and Americans think it's their right to do so?
pcmr57 3 years ago 6
Gravel was the only one up there worth a damn.
boxant 3 years ago 8
So please save the patriotic bullshit for a sheeple who believe in redirect and well rehearsed lies. 911 was an Implosion plain and simple 8 second freefall from jet fuel? Yah right. 170 tons of Concrete to dust? Melted steel ? lol we deserve a leadership who plays us like a fiddle from hell. Not to mention a Law enforcement who has zero respect for our citizen and our constitution.
LostFREEDOM 3 years ago 3
This country has allot of sheeple ,infected with ignorance, racism and religious delusion. Its pretty hard to ask them to reason. The Patriot Act is a Good Example of dying in Vain. Simple fact we gave everything we stood for away at the 1st sign of fear. So yes they die in vain everyday...
LostFREEDOM 3 years ago 2
As soon as Obama starts talking you can just tell that its all bullshit. When you go from gravel right to obama you can just hear the fakeness in his voice.
tibsnow 3 years ago 4
Of course they died in vain. What did the millions of deaths caused by the Viet Nam War accomplish?
oldjoe5 3 years ago
It stopped the spread of communism, which would have resulted in millions of deaths, like the consequences of the Soviet regime and Chinese regime.
kinshasaAPP 3 years ago
How so? R U aware that the communicst chinese invaded V Nam after the USA withdrew and fought their own wasteful war of 12 years before they gave up.
The V Namese were fighting to be free of colonialism. Period.
oldjoe5 3 years ago
Yet if we did nothing, communism would have been spread farther by the Chinese-powered Vietnamese (including the Chinese themselves) to places like Japan, Korea, India, Pakistan ETC ETC. Be happy we weakened the VietCong.
kinshasaAPP 3 years ago
The Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out because of America's commitment in Vietnam. , Communism would have swept all the way to south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.
kinshasaAPP 3 years ago