Abortion And The Hippocratic Oath - Anti-Abortion Pro-Life Video PSA

[ElHombreConDosOjos]

[“Women—bah! Heed them not—for today's peach is tomorrow's prune!” – Fr. 1926's "The Son of the Sheik" starring Rudolph Valentino]

[teton99]

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version

[xXaudraXannXx]

the PROPER oath, which has been reworded several times so that ppl can sleep at night when they abort their babies...

[Janvierireland]

Usually it can take 3 days for a conception to happen,so the aim should be to take this pill within 3 days.

It is rare that a girl under the age of 12 can become pregnant,but there are a minority of girls who can become pregnant from the age of 10

[Steadno]

J: The morning after pill is abortion. I think in the case of rape it really should be up to the victim. Again, as a means of convenience or birth control, I see no justification. So long as female menstruates, she can get pregnant and they seem to be getting younger.

[Janvierireland]

The morning after pill is abortion if an egg has been fertilised but it can prevent a conception/fertilisation from happening."hey seem to be getting younger."I have heard and/or read that,s true alright."So long as female menstruates, she can get pregnant"-to be exact I would add so long as a human female menstruates and is sexually active,she can get pregnant- but I know what you meant.

[Steadno]

J: Even if an 11 year old girl is "sexually active" she should still have the right 'cause it'd be rape either way...statutory rape. There's no way of telling how the morning after pill made a baby not come. So if you're hell bent on not having abortion for any reason, then the morning after pill will not suffice.

[Janvierireland]

I agree that a girl being sexually active under the age of 16 is always rape as in no way can a girl be considered responsible for her actions even if she thinks she chose it and especially when the boy/man she 'had sex'with is over the age of 16,it is statutory rape.The morning after pill usually works,its possible that sometimes it dosen,t but ist rare that is dosen,t work.

[Janvierireland]

This goes to prove that those who call themselves "Liberals" cherrypick which parts they keep and which they want to get rid of,in order to conform to their opinions.(and an opinion is all pro choice is,not something correct).There would rightfully be uproar if rape was allowed.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

I have no idea how you've incorporated physicans "raping" patients into this, but it's absurd.

Both sides of the issue cherry pick from the H.O. to support their cause de celebre.

My point is that it's silly. The H.O. has no legal bearing. It's just a formality. If I was a Jehovah's Witness, I wouldn't even be able to take the oath on religious grounds. Does that mean I would be unable to be a physician? No.

Legally, the H.O. has no teeth. We have medical boards to regulate us now

[Janvierireland]

The dropping of the refusal to perform abortion would be like if they dropped"In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves."to allow rape

[Janvierireland]

Imagine if this part of the Hippocratic Oath was dropped because of current 'political correctness' "In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients,keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men,be they free or slaves" and therefore allowed rape of women and boys(of course that would be unjust-as abortion is unjust).

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

That part of the Hippocratic Oath WAS dropped in the "Lasagna Oath". If you think about it, it makes no sense to make medical students swear to not resist sexual intercourse from slaves 150 years after Lincoln emancipated them. It makes no sense to make medical students swear to God's they don't believe in. It makes no sense to make medical students swear to not perform a legal procedure.

In fact, it makes no sense to act like the H.O. is anything more than ceremonial window dressing.

[Janvierireland]

It does make sense to make medical students swear to not have sexual intercourse from their patients and slaves could be interpreted as vulnerable people,

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

Jan,

If a Dr. has sexual relations with a patient, the state medical board intervenes, not Apollo.

You intrepret just about whatever you want from just about everything. That was the point behind revising the H.O. It needed to be relevant for our times (i.e. removing Greek gods and slaves).

Interestingly enough, the euthanasia crowd also cherry picks from the H.O. to support their position.

Both sides do it, I am merely pointing out the academic dishonesties and facts.

[Janvierireland]

The only part that is reasonable enough to leave out is to swear on the Greek Gods-Greek mythology being a dead religion...anyways science proves that a fetus is a human being and there is no need to resort to religion to prove the pro life reality

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, it makes no sense for doctors to kill human beings beings, which is what abortion is....

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

Yes. Whatever did happen to the Hippocratic Oath? Every medical student should be compelled to swear to Apollo, Aesclepius, Hygieia, and Panaceia.

You can be a literalist for anything, but the truth is the Hippocratic Oath as it was written by Galen (not Hippocraties) is only proximately relevant to medicine today.

In fact, it is really viewed as window dressing for white coat ceremonies than a binding oath by most medical students.

I suppose Apollo will smite me for sayint that.

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, obviously, the video is not about Greek mythology. The message is -- the Oath, which worked fine for centuries -- has been pressured to be modified -- in order to conform to the profit mentality of the abortion industry.

[Janvierireland]

As far as I know they have changed the Hippocratic Oath to exclude the part about not doing abortions.Or they are not using the hippocratic oath at all.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

The video is about the Hippocratic Oath. If you are going to be a literalist, then you must demand that medical students, like myself, swear to Greek "mythology. Otherwise, you are just as guilty of what you accuse others of.

The oath as it has been adapted now was written in 1964 by Dr. Louis Lasagna; ten years before Roe, so your "abortion industry" comment is a strawman.

Prior to World War II, few Medical Schools in America even incorporated the oath. Can you guess why they did?

[Janvierireland]

The fact is that supporting or performing an abortion is what is considered to be political correctness nowadays just to keep the so-called 'liberals' happy'-abortion was wrong and unjust to women and the unborn then and it still is wrong and unjust to women and the unborn now and it will always be wrong and unjust to women and the unborn in the future,one cannot change natures law.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

The entire field of medical science is devoted to changing "nature's laws". By natures laws, we shouldn't intercede to prevent diseases. We should simply allow people to "sink or swim" in order to strengthen the gene pool.

That was a weak point. You are entitled to your opinion, but the only thing that is relevant to a physician is what is legal and not legal and their own moral code.

2000 year old oaths are nice and sentimental, but ultimately impotent.

[Janvierireland]

My point was that the dropped the part in the Hippocratic Oath about refusing to perform an abortion just because some people wanted to have abortion legal and got their own way and that just like rape,abortion is wrong.

Pregnancy is NOT a disease,doctors are to work with nature to obtain and maintain human helath.Pregnancy is a sign of health,therefore when doctors cure and not kill,they are working with nature

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

Jan,

That is not a true statement. The abortion clause was dropped in 1964 when abortion was still generally illegal (Roe occured in 1973). I respect your opinion on abortion and I won't try and argue with you on that. In fact, I am not a fan of abortion either.

My point is that the H.O. is ceremonial. It is silly to act like it is anything more or less. There was no conspiracy behind changing the oath nor is there much relevance to it.

Laws govern medicine, not the H.O.

[Janvierireland]

I think that doctors should adhere to this oath minus the Greek Gods part

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, you said, "We should simply allow people to "sink or swim" in order to strengthen the gene pool." Does that include yourself? That is what the Nazis believed. This is not a trolling channel.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

rosary,

Did you bother to read my post? I said that medicine is devoted to breaking or bending the "rules of nature". Thus, you could logically conclude that I don't believe in allowing people to "sink or swim".

As for trolling, you posted this video. If you are going to insult everyone who challenges your position, you won't get far in life or your movement.

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, you deliberately miss the point of the video. The Hippocratic Oath was successfully used for centuries by a wide variety of cultures. The oath is not about Greek Gods, but about human beings. The essence of the Oath is simple and is based on common sense -- it states that physicians should not take advantage of their position to cause harm to their patients. Deliberately using their medical skills to kill unborn babies violates that oath. Hence, the point of the video.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

No, you deliberately take something out of historical context. The oath was not used on our nation until after WWII. It was a reaction to the crimes revealed at Nuremburg. All this aside, you miss the most important component of the oath: enforcement. When the ancient Greeks swore to Apollo, they were swearing to a God they believed would hold them directly accountable and would intercede upon their mortal existance if they failed to uphold their vows. (pt. 1)

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, you are wrong on all counts.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

Today we have laws, not greek Gods, that govern a medical practice. The oath is just Medical School ritual. There are no consequences for refusing to take it, let alone violating it. It carries as much legal weight as the pledge of allegiance.

Stop cherry picking what is convenient for your cause de celebre and do some research on the oath. You've made several incorrect assertions about it and have not demonstrated that you know much about it beyond what you read on wikipedia.

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, we have performed the research. Hence, the video. Doctors changed the Oath to ease their guilty conscience on the genocide of the unborn that they are responsible for implementing. Your Mengelite rationalizations are not really worth responding to...

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

With all due respect, you have made so many false assertions, it's hard for me to believe you have done proper research.

Wanda Franz's (whom I am sure you are familiar with) criticism of Lasagna's motives are unfair and speculatory, as are yours.

All that aside, the oath is not legally binding, so it's pointless to insist that it be revised.

I have no idea what a "mengelite" is, but your ad hominem attacks and dismissive attitude towards an intellectual challenge bears you out.

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, you digress with false accusations, etc.; which is what people do when they know they are wrong. The Oath was used for centuries successfully -- included in the oath -- was the promise not to use their position to promote infanticide. The so-call phsicians of today -- have neglected this century old promise in return for the financial benefits of being an abortionist. Dr. Mengele was an abortionists and you promote abortions, despite the inhumane loss of innocent lives.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

You don't know my position on abortion. Stop making inferences. It makes you look silly. Every physician is free to make a choice on whether they want to perform abortions or not. Most do not.

It is academically dishonest of you to make an arguement based on selective passages of an oath outside of its historical context. You would have medical students swear to your values, not our own.

Once again, the oath was not implented in this country until after WWII. Hardly "centuries".

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, I know that you are not pro-life. Nor do you understand what the Oath means. You are more concerned about people believing in Greek mythology than about the deaths of 53 million babies in the US alone since 1973. And then you go and accuse others of being "academically dishonest". You should look at the structure of your own comments before you accuse others of such things.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

Okay, you don't like Louis Lasagnas' revision to the oath, again which happened a decade before Roe and the "abortion industry", and you favor returning to the classical oath.

So I assume you will also compell myself and classmates to swear to Gods we don't believe in (Apollo)? What about Drs. not performing surgery? What about the nepotism clause? What about not sharing medical "secrets" with other Drs?

What parts of the oath are retained, and what is ommitted?

[rosaryfilms]

Mattyouarebeingglib, you assume wrong -- you are still hung up on Greek mythology -- while many thousands of unborn babies die each day at the hand of doctors -- doctors who are suppose to protect them -- not murder them. You miss the entire point of the short video. Please watch the PBS version of this topic for some background on what this video is trying to address.

[Mattyouarebeingglib]

Or you could just answer the question:

If you want to return to the classic oath with the abortion/euthanasia clause; do we still swear to apollo?

If not, why not?

[xxdiogenescynicxx]

The point is that western civilization should be for LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, you can't have the latter of the two if you don't have LIFE first.

[KaravageKid]

If I have to choose between PRO-LIFE and PRO-CHOICE, I find that I have no choice. The freedom of one person ends where the freedom of another person begins.

[rosaryfilms]

KaravageKid, the murder of an innocent unborn baby can never be justified.

[Steadno]

If a grown female willingly has sex and gets pregnant...No abortion!! If a female of any age is molested or raped and gets pregnant, abortion should be an option, but not the ONLY option! Adoptive parents are always available! This is a logical compromise!

[Novjunulo]

No, the child still has a right to life. It is no less human, and is as much her child as the rapist's.

[Steadno]

True, but sweeping, overbroad, uncompromising ideals are not saving enough unborn humans. Start where I suggested and then move into the next phase. BTW, no matter what, rare occasions will still exist where abortion is required to save the mother.

[angelface713]

for every baby aborted,there were forty couples waiting to adopt a baby.

[Steadno]

Where did you get that info? It will help against the ones who want to kill babies!

[Nine00]

Yes angelface that's right! BUT- who knows if the children actually end up with these couples and no in some kind of orpanage until they are grown?

[fffffffffffffffffffy]

So pregnancy is a punishment for sex? Go back to the 13th century.

[Steadno]

ffffffffffffy: Not punishment but if a grown woman takes the risk, her convenience is circumvented by human life, no matter what stage it is in.

[Janvierireland]

"pregnancy is a punishment for sex?"Pregnancy is certainly never a punishment for anything

[Janvierireland]

Steadno,I think that there should never be an abortion even if the mother was raped,the only solution for a rape victim is to take the morning after pill within 3 days of the attack and to be medically examined both for her own health and for the reason that the court demands proof.Leaving a pregnancy go on for further than a few weeks or a few months etc when it resulted from rape and then aborting is not justifiable.Abortion from consensual sex is also unjustifiable.

[Steadno]

J: I haven't been able to come to any conclusion that I'm 100% comfortable with. I still view the morning after pill as abortion 'cause human life has begun. Imagine for a moment a grown man rapes (molests) an 11 year old girl (maybe your daughter or niece) and she gets pregnant; you'd force that child to go through with it?  One thing I am unyielding on is grown women aborting babies out of convenience!

[rosaryfilms]

Steadno, the unborn baby never stops being a human being, regardless of the circumstances. Two wrongs do not make a right. Murdering your own child does not unrape you. Rape is terrible, yes, but so is murder. Giving the child up for adoption is an honorable solution. Adding the trauma of murdering your own child to that of being raped is not good for the mother. The innocent child should not suffer for the sins of the father. Killing your own child makes you become a criminal.

[Steadno]

rosary: Would you force an 11 year old girl who was brutally raped by a grown man go through with a pregnancy? I don't mean some distant person either; I mean YOUR daughter, niece or sister etc...

[rosaryfilms]

Steadno, the unborn baby never stops being a human being, regardless of the circumstances. Two wrongs do not make a right. Murdering your own child does not unrape you. Rape is terrible, yes, but so is murder. Giving the child up for adoption is an honorable solution. Adding the trauma of murdering your own child to that of being raped is not good for the mother. The innocent child should not suffer for the sins of the father. Killing your own child makes you become a criminal.

[Steadno]

rosary: You kinda dodged my question. Just to be clear, you're saying that you would FORCE YOUR 11 year old daughter, niece, sister or cousin to birth a child in which was forcibly put in her by a pedophile rapist? I have two daughters about this age and I would give them the option.

[rosaryfilms]

Steadno, no, your question was answered. The Church teaches you cannot kill innocent human beings. Do you remember what the history books taught? That slavery and Jim Crow were once legal in this country because Blacks were considered by racists as sub-humans. Murder of the Jews was legal in the Third Reich because racists considered Jews as sub-human. THE UNBORN CHILD IS NOT SUB-HUMAN. PLANNED PARENTHOOD AND ABORTION CLINICS MURDER OVER 1500 BLACKS BABIES A DAY - WHAT R U DOING ABOUT IT?

[MyPaperBleedsInk]

@rosaryfilms

Hahahaha,,,, the most ironic thing about this comment and that I'm extremely happy about is that you brought up the church... when in fact the bible is all for racism, slavery, rape.... all that fun stuff.

[Janvierireland]

As I think I already said,I would consider giving the morning after pill within 3 days to prevent conception as opposed to letting a pregnancy happen if the girl or woman of any age was raped-and the same if I was the mother of a rape victim.

[Janvierireland]

Conception can take 3 days to happen which is why I agree with the morning after pill in cases of rape in order to prevent conception,and not aiming to kill a conceived embryo even if it does this.

[Steadno]

J: I would agree that in the case of a grown woman having consensual sex, abortion shouldn't be an option. In the case of a rape of a child (under 12) my opinion is that it should be an option.

[Janvierireland]

In the rape of a child under 12 and also in the rape of a teenage girl and an adult woman,its the morning after pill that should be an option,not abortion in any circumstances,especially not abortion after 3 weeks of pregnancy whether the pregnancy is from an abortion or not.The morning after pill should be given to a rape victim to AIM to stop or prevent pregnancy and not to deliberatly eliminate any life that may have been conceived,even if this happens.

[Janvierireland]

My reasoning for the morning after pill is to prevent conception but only for a rape victim and to be taken within 3 days under the supervision of a doctor at a hospital.If taken after 3 days and if there has been a conception,thats problematic for me.Just to clarify.

[Steadno]

J: I understand, but like me I see you're willing to compromise in some situations. What was your answer on that 11 year old girl who was brutally raped by a grown man? Mind you, this isn't some nameless or faceless 6th grade girl...she has YOUR blood flowing in her veins.

[Janvierireland]

If she is in the later stages of pregnancy,I can,t approve of abortion but one thing for sure is that the rapist should get something like 30 years or more in prison

[Steadno]

J: I think that'd be a reasonable compromise (so long as it's not forced) even though whether it's early or late the act is a travesty. It's just that the latter seems more egregious 'cause the baby is more shaped. Agreed, the perpetrator once proven guilty, should receive the maximum: LIFE!

[Janvierireland]

I think parents or any other responsible adult should notice if their daughter/a girl has been harmed,there would usually be a change in behaviour and they should seek general treatment for her at a hospital.The morning after pill is potentially fatal and causes haemorrhaging which is why I think it should be under the supervision of a doctor.I don,t believe in giving this pill to a girl or woman who had consensual sex.

[Janvierireland]

If in the later stages of pregnancy from 1 month to 9 months,whether or not the pregnancy is the result of a rape,there is a human being inside his/her mother and I can,t support the killing of this human offspring for the crime that the biological father did to the biological mother.

[KaravageKid]

Very nice video, I see your point entirely. But extreem mesures cannot apply in every case: what do you say to the 13 year old girl who was molested and raped by her own uncle?

Caring about those who are to come, that is a very noble and worthy case. But what of those who are already here? What right do we have to impose a pregnancy on a little girl? She is not responsible for what was done to her

[rosaryfilms]

KaravageKid, ever hear of Jesse Jackson? He is a "product" of rape. Should we go out and kill him? Two wrongs do not make a right. A mother deciding to murder her own child does not unrape the mother. The trauma of murdering your own child should not follow the trauma of being raped. The unborn child should not be murdered due to the sin of the father. Abortion only makes a bad situation worse.

[rosaryfilms]

KaravageKid, also thank you for the complement on the video!