Peter Schiff & Steven Keen on Dateline(Australia) - Part 1 of 2

[mirabilo]

God I love youtube. Research at your finger tips.

[WilhelmDrake]

Without government, there is no market, or even money for that matter.

[koala8]

@WilhelmDrake

thats not exactly true....

[edsonusa75]

@WilhelmDrake ///wrong , the government is a parasite of the free market and the only thing it does is hampering it through taxation. Also, the government in partnership with the Federal Reserve have the monopoly of the money. If you want real currency backed by gold or silver (intrinsic value) the government will put you in jail. Google Liberty dollar prison.

[edsonusa75]

@WilhelmDrake ///wrong , the government is a parasite of the free market and the only thing it does is hampering it through taxation. Also, the government in partnership with the Federal Reserve have the monopoly of the money. If you want real currency backed by gold or silver (intrinsic value) the government will put you in jail. Google Liberty dollar prison.

[WilhelmDrake]

@edsonusa75

That's funny. No currency regime without the power of taxation will be ever be universally accepted.

[edsonusa75]

@WilhelmDrake ///if that's not possible, it's because of the government.

[WilhelmDrake]

@edsonusa75

What about democracy?

[edsonusa75]

@WilhelmDrake ///"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49."

~Jefferson

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@WilhelmDrake "Without government, there is no market" Completely unsupported assumption, Drake.

[WilhelmDrake]

@ReasonAndLiberty

It is not. See the New Economic Archaeology.

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@WilhelmDrake Could you please offer me the tl dr version of that article? At least the one I found was extremely wrong. If you can get me interested I might read the whole thing. But do explain how voluntary exchange is impossible without forceful coercion.

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

Just like the conjecture that gold as a store of value emerged out of barter exchange.

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow @OgallalaKnowhow Have you actually tried reading Menger?

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

Yes. And its as conjectural as Drake's claim that there is no such thing as money and markets without the state. If you read the first chapter of Marx's Capital Vol. 1 you will find an explanation for the emergence of money out of barter exchange that is exactly the same as Menger's. Just because an economist writes a self-contained logical explanation doesn't mean that it is historically OR logically accurate.

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow You mean to read Graeber's work?

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

I mean Marx Capital 1, Chpt. 1, Sect. 1 where he shows (in his own words) "the derivation of value from an analysis of the equations by which every exchange-value is expressed." (From afterword to the German 2nd edition, 1873). Its the same logic as Menger's explanation: a standard of value emerges out of "every exchange-value."

David Graeber is interesting though. I'm not entirely sure, but doesn't he say that modern state money emerged out of tribal law and debts?

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow That's not what I meant by my question. I was asking whether the New Economics Archaeology is represented by Graeber.

I haven't read his entire book, just summaries

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

I'm more familiar with the work of Michael Hudson and the neo-Chartalists. A good ebook on this is Credit and State Theories of Money: The Contributions of A. Mitchell Innes. But from what I can tell Graeber's work is definitely in the same mould; debt origins of money and all that. I haven't read his new book yet either, just some blog entries.

[ReasonAndLiberty]

@OgallalaKnowhow Have you read mises.org/daily/1333

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

The strength of the NEA is that it brings in concrete examples from the historical record not just to test deductive reasoning of economics but to construct economic theory. Murphy and Mises offer no history, rather they just extend the conjectural explanation that money originated from barter exchange to show that "time" matters. But time and history are not the same thing. Of course we don't live in a timeless, spaceless world like neoclassical theory posits, so what?

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

Check out Hudson's essay The New Economic Archaeology of Debt, should be on his site. NEAers and Chartalists argue that before the existence of a medium of exchange there must be a monetary unit of account. Money is first and foremost a nominal balance sheet expression of assets and liabilities that gets measured in this standard unit of account. And there is no methodological indvidualist explanation for this MoA, its a product of social imagination, language, and authority.

[OgallalaKnowhow]

@ReasonAndLiberty

The one Austrian economist I really respect is Josef Steindl. If there is anyone to point towards a meeting between Post Keynesians, critical finance and Austrian theory its him.

[whereismybailouttv]

Just heard George is leaving SBS for Channel 10. Anyone know the name of the new program?

[danbuck333]

@imacoolkidyea how is he a retard

[dentistsugardust]

@imacoolkidyea

i'd be the same way if i were some bitter, mono minded self centered lower leveled faceless pirate who'd formerly made his ambition to impress his pirate elders if i could only watch as my selfish cheater dream got gobbled up by the pirate elders who eventually would kick sand in my eyes and me walk the plank. LOL! yeah, the cats out the bag now. no matter how much salt you try to shake on the results. it's all over dover rover. LOL!

[imacoolkidyea]

@dentistsugardust HEY! I'm sorry. I never wrote that. I don't even know who this guy is. Eh. Lots o' people are hacking into my account. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Hellooo20]

this is not socialism its corporatism you stupid fuck

[whereismybailouttv]

I know! Let's give George U.S. citizenship so HE can fix this. Anybody who knows that Freddie and Fannie ARE cartoonish has to be better than Bernanke and Geithner.

[edsonusa75]

Mickey Mouse would do a better job.

[whereismybailouttv]

Another example of how messed up Stateside politics is? Bernie Sanders,Socialist Senator from Vermont. Everybody knows what he is. Yet, the ONLY way he could win was to run as an "Independent."

[whereismybailouttv]

As Schiff runs for the Senate, will he run as a Libertarian (which is what he is)? Or, will he run as a "Republican" (ala Ron Paul)?

[Brak82]

he runs as s republican. But he dont want to be a politician

[edsonusa75]

He is not a politician my friend. He wants to save this country from an economic collapse. He knows how to do it, politicians don't.

[sugarpuddin88]

The FED, acting as bartender, gives out free booze to the bankers

The privately owned FED Reserve bank seduced other bankers to hand out free money for bad ideas

Consider that over 1.5 Quadrillion dollars of fake derivatives flowed back and forth between banks & borrowers - All sponsored by the privately owned FED Res Bank

The FED caused 3 depressions in the 30s, (google how their flood & retraction of currency correlates precisely with Corp failure & unemployment)

FED funded the crisis!

[DaveC86]

i trust schiff more than keen, although i think schiff maybe doesn't know so much about other countries as he does about the US. which makes sense. we need more austrian school economists in Australia.

[sugarpuddin88]

Bernanke, Geithner, Rubens, Summers, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan & the Federal Reserve Bank know exactly what they are doing by collapsing the US Dollar:

The purpose of this financial crisis is to take down the U.S. dollar as the stable datum of planetary finance and, in the midst of the resulting confusion, put in its place a Global Monetary Authority [GMA - run directly by international bankers freed of any government control] -a planetary financial control organization" - Bruce Wiseman

[DaveC86]

im sorry but no one has a shred of evidence for that, more likely it is government incompetence and a blind belief in Keynesian economics.

[treddas851]

A Austrian School Economist and Austrialian School!Could it be worse!Is this a joke!Milton Friedman had talked this idiots out on minute!

[xpressivist]

the bailout package is a sucker's payoff and not pareto optimal. i commend the us congress for rejecting this bill. inflation is inevitable whether you pass this bill or not. but if you pass this bill, inflation will be higher and worse. i will also vigorously oppose this bill if i am an american.

[Badwolf182]

Brilliant - Thanx very much for posting.

[murphycline]

One thought re: Mr Keen's remarks; It wouldn't be wrong to assume that Australia has a central bank that sets interest rates as well, correct?

[billsaintkilda]

Australia does have a central bank - The Reserv bank and they do indeed set interest rates. But there was no equivilant to Fannie and Freddie which were in reality central mortgane underwriters.

[ElCapitan1985]

hmmm, me thinks they're on to something....Go PETER, GO! Force the medicine down their throats! Thanks to Australia for not being dicks to Peter like americans are. PEACE!

[ProspectorSam]

Sanity on the telly? Egads!

[Tasadaru]

"Two of the most cartoon names in corporate history." Honest and serious, that's us (America). LOL!

"Unite or Die. Liberty or Death."

[sugarpuddin88]

Hidden from news:

Americas 6th largest financial collapse: Colonial Bank!

The FDIC is run by Sheila Bair, a Lawyer, and the dean at the Isenberg Institute. Her and her staff of Zio-clowns are not about to arrest the directors, the executive management, the auditors, or the investment oversight board.

This clueless clown belongs behind the counter of a McDonalds. He is cooking the 'Health Scheme' where doctors, hospitals, and Hispanic immigrants get a $ trillion dollars.

[eesloan4]

very sad

[codematrix]

I agree with Schiff more than Keen. Although, Keen has very good points as well.

Thanks the for post.

[InTheSticks1881]

Schiff is brilliant. Refreshing to see comments from Australia.

[MakeCakeNotWar]

Thanks for posting this. Good subject matter and experts, just wish George had let them talk more.