Don't count on meeting jolly St. Nick at the Gates of Heaven

[jackmacshack]

I respect that you tell us the story of some of your childhood. You seem to be a moral person. My statements are not an attack on you ,but Observation of you and your Faith.

best of luck to you and yours.

[jackmacshack]

I understand that you hav an emotional attachment with this god ,but you will never be abel to change the fact that what you don't know you don't know. Faith is a assumption not based in reality. Reality is truth perception of reality is not always true.

[jackmacshack]

The cristian god is not imoral under the cristian code.The bigger point of cristianity is Obedience to god. God can never disobey himself so nomatter what God does god has perfect morality under this standard. The only code of conduct the cristian god uses is the the code desire.

[LeafInTheStream]

Thanks for the response, Stormtrek.

You say that God "made (you) believe in him ... removed the blindness from (your) eyes ..."

Do you have a video where you go into detail about this? Failing that, can you direct me to a YouTube vid where someone else relates a similar such awakening?

[StormTrek]

Hi LeafInTheStream,

I've never made a video on the topic of Irresistible Grace (aka Effectual Calling). But if you want some detail on the theology you can try this:

watch?v=JDq8CueGP38

[LeafInTheStream]

Hello again Stormtrek,

Thanks for the link. I've watched that video a few times now and done some further reading. I think I have a reasonable grasp of the concept of Irresistible Grace, but I'm keenly interested in what such an experience feels like subjectively - how one knows that one has been saved.

Sorry to trouble you again, but do you know of any vids where someone attempts to describe the what it is like to have one's resistance overcome?

[StormTrek]

I suppose it feels like any other change in disposition one might have. The greater the paradigm transition the greater the feelings one might associate with the experience.

For example, an individual who was raised a Catholic and undergoes regeneration (did you run into that term?) may not associate the same intensity of feelings that an atheist might experience. This shift in worldview for the Catholic will be quite minor relative to the shift for the atheist.

[StormTrek]

My Catholic friends describe it as a new interest in reading the bible that they never had before. As an atheist, I experienced all the feelings one will have when one goes from thinking there is no god to believing there is a Creator. Ask yourself how you would feel if you just found out you won the cosmic lotto; or how you would feel if someone just dropped the cure to cancer in your lap.

Kind of hard to convey those types of feelings.

[LeafInTheStream]

I'm surprised to hear you describing the euroria that can follow an incredible epiphany. I was expecting something more along the lines of feeling yourself being touched by God or feeling his presence or even hearing his voice.

I guess the euphoria is understandable, but the epiphany itself is much harder for me to grasp.

[chosetec]

I've looked into the history of Jesus, and there isn't enough evidence for me to believe that he rose from the dead. An empty tomb is not enough evidence, and there aren't any corroborating reports outside of the Bible, of the actual miraculous events it mentions.

[StormTrek]

Hi chosetec,

The empty tomb is one of the evidences I would point to. However, it's not what I would point to as my motivation for belief.

I'm primarily motivated by how the pieces of the puzzle fit together. Criticisms of resurrection can't seem to supply a naturalistic explanation while accounting for the evidence.

[chosetec]

Hi Stormtrek, you make some pretty reasonable arguments, and I believe you really were an atheist. There are other well-known "ex-atheists" who I doubt were serious atheists because they seem to lack a basic understanding of the biggest objections we have to Christianity. I'm an ex-Christian, and I'm sorry that you regret having been an atheist. I have arrived at the opposite conclusion. When I say that a good god wouldn't torture people for eternity, the point I am trying to make

[chosetec]

..is that a being who chooses to torture humans is not good. It's a thought experiment to illustrate why we think such a god can't exist.

In the beginning of your video, you say that you can't use nature to prove that god did create everything, or to prove that god did not. I think that's not entirely true, a god could be proven to have created the universe, if he really did.

[michelle2chat]

Good vid, Storm! I enjoy the responses you make!

[michelle2chat]

I personally view hell as a place where souls "self-torture" themselves to the point of insanity, due to the unimaginable magnitude of the amount of deep regret they will experience (and be unable to rid themselves of since there will be no way for them to ever find peace) when they realize their foolishness.

[SaintCog]

Curious to know how your personal view changes anything. Would be convinced of my personal view that the centre of a black hole smells like freshly cut lawn?

[StormTrek]

Hi Michelle,

It's possible. Regret may fuel the fire. Another (maybe, additional) possibility is that an irrational hatred of God fuels the fire.

Have you heard of Bart Ehrman? He displayed this type of mental disposition when he said he'd never forgive God for creating this world even IF God righted every wrong and dried every tear at the end of time. I've seen a few YouTubers express a similar opinion.

[michelle2chat]

He sounds vaguely familiar, I'll have to look him up when I get a chance.

I like how you said "irrational" hatred of God. I agree, it is irrational. I think this irrational hatred has its origin at a flawed understanding of God's character. God is Holy, Loving, Just, Righteous, Good, etc. But he is often viewed as evil (because of misapplied anger about the subject of hell). I think this misunderstanding of His character is what will ultimately lead many to the wide path of destruction.

[oliesbw]

It's interesting that you feel there is a hatred of god, perhaps tho it is because there is a flawed misunderstanding of non believers. one can not hate that which one does not exists. There is a strong dislike of the words in the bible, it contains some vindictive hateful passages, He is neither loving nor just, righteous nor good. If he exists he is responsible for great crimes against mankind. And if not then the belief in him has caused many lives.

[oliesbw]

correction..

cost many lives