Part 1/3 - Gun Control Debate on E-TV South Africa - 2010-01-22

[catmandoo4u1]

In the USA we tired gun control. Gun control = more violence. Criminal will always get guns especially in africa.

[stephenabm]

No to Gun Control!!!

[spudbean94]

this is bullshit dont let them disarm you people. dont let them take ur right to protect urself i have lived in south africa i know what it is like. i now live in england and we have already basicly been disarmed.

[MarilulaneMusic]

phase out guns from society. allowing guns for hunting spreads a very vicious message about how we're allowed to treat other beings.

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic Being able to eat and survive is a vicious message about how we treat animals? lol

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips have you got a grip on logic carbon?! :) condoning gun-based violence is a cultural phenomenon that can pervade a society. shooting for sport cultivates callous behaviour and increases acceptance of guns generally. this has nothing to do with eating and survival; its like you had the red pill in the left hand and the blue pill iin the right hand and then you swapped hands ;)) hehehe ps no one needs to eat animals to survive!!

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic There si not violence because there are guns. The violence is the produce of another reason. Guns aren't going to go away so you might want to start getting use to that. And yes, there ar elots of people that still hunt in order to survive and people like to eat meat, so you might want to get use to that as well.

[MarilulaneMusic]

guns can be phased out of society through a combination of laws and social initiatives to change public attitude. it may take many years but it can be done; nazism was achieved through propaganda so it can be done for guns too. open your mind and realise things can change for the better, we dont need to stay in limited realms of misunderstanding. people liked nazism until they saw that a better way was possible. we dont need to always be barbarians, even though you may feel comfortable this way!

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic No guns can't be phased out and to think they can is not being at all realistic. Nazis did not change their minds because they saw a better way. We took out guns over there and killed those Nazis a sfast as we could. That is how the nazi party in Germany fell, but there are still neo nazis, people that hate blacks, Jews, whites, Americans, etc. Hate is human nature sadly, and it cannot be legislated out of existence. If 1 type of people give up their guns, they become slaves.

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips sad to see how many limitations you're prepared to impose on your own mind; we cant do this, we cant do that. and you have no logical justification behind your restrictions; why cant they?! lol do you know how social psychology works?! limited thinking is a bad habit, it has no relation to truth, you're just happy to sit in the mud and slowly sink to the bottom. you need to get out of that primitive mindset my friend!! check criticalthinking . org = you're new starting point!!

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic What you want is possible ONLY if you can get everyone on the planet to agree with you. Thinking you can get everyone to agree to anything is illogical and unrealistic. You're trying to think in a clean room or a lab type controlled environment. The world is just not that way, so what works in your mind experiments won't work in the real world. Being realistic is not a limitation I have. Being unrealistic is a limitation you have.

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic I would suggest that if what you are really after is to stop the murder, & you really think that through laws, social initiatives & propaganda (as U put it) you can control the minds & bodies of the people of the world, then you'd go after drugs. The countries with the highest murder rates either produce or consume large amounts of illegal drugs. But I think your only real concern is in trying to impress others with how deeply you claim to thinking and how shallow every1 else is

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips its like watching the terminator at the end who's half-crushed but then starts dragging himself along.. you're now admitting solutions are possible!! thank god for that!! i agree, drugs are a major part of the problem. we need a systemic and comprehensive solution, isolated fixes cant work. but this solution is brought about by social intitiatives!! so we must work on those... no i dont want to make other people appear stupid, but a stupid comment is a stupid comment!!! lol :)))

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic "no i dont want to make other people appear stupid, "

But you say things like "its like watching the terminator at the end who's half-crushed but then starts dragging himself along.. you're now admitting solutions are possible!! thank god for that!!"

That is exactly what U're after. U feel superior & U want me & every1 else to know it but you also want a level of modesty so you deny that's what your after. With the belief U have, you're not in danger of making any1 look stupid

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips no. i dont want to make you appear stupid. but you said something stupid my friend!! first you equated hunting with eating, which are two separate things. then you said we can never stop people eating animals. then you said: "guns can't be phased out". everything you said was irrational!! there is no logic or comprehensive factual truth matrix behind your statements. you have to think about WHY you think these things are true.. and you'll find all your reasons are assumptions only.

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic It is funny that U do not realize that in several places in the world U do in fact have to hunt to survive. What, do U live in a city and just assume that everyone else does too? There is also the fact that we are designed to eat meat, we (humans) like the taste of it, and most of us don't have a problem with animals being killed so they can be eaten. PETA is a small group for a good reason, almost no one agrees with them. U're delusional 2 think guns will ever go away.

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic I mean seriously, name 1 weapon in history that was given up before it was replaced with something more efficient first. Again, U would have to get everyone to agree with you for your little plan of world peace to work. If you believe that is possible, you're delusional or you're high and listening to John Lennon's Imagine. I don't like that people get killed, but they always have and always will. A few people "deep thinking" about it won't change that.

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips john lennon! but going back in history is going to give us diminishing returns my dear. yeh ur right, the nazis didn't give up weapons, neither did the neanderthals.. how far back do you want to go?? an orderly and peaceful society is more efficient than a lawless shooting one. and no, i dont want to get everyone to agree or 'deep think' about it... i want to implement the social initiatives i've mentioned to achieve the goals!! i thought men are supposed to be resourceful!!! ;)

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic No one gives up weapons or as some people would call them, tools used for hunting to eat, protecting crops from the animals that destroy them, and protecting ones self and family from dangerous animals and humans that mean to do them harm. Hunting or using firearms are not byproducts of a lawless society. I would say that most people who own firearms make it a habit to obey the law. I am a very peaceful & law abiding person and I own and use several firearms. I even carry 1.

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips aaaah! so YOU carry a gun, carbonlosehisgrips!!! and worse... you use it?? for what? to mame, torture and destroy perfectly formed living creatures??? guns are byproduct of a failing society because hunters have no moral code, spirit, or compassion. they have a lesser capacity to love and empathise and permitting this behaviour shows we are all on too low an intellectual and emotional level. Admit the truth carbongrips: are you an animal killer???

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic Yes, I carry a gun, so what? I carry a knife too. I use the guns to target shoot with for fun & I carry because I have a right of self defense here & it's pretty normal here. I know you dont' see it as normal because it's not something that is allowed in your country but trust me, it's normal here & the laws allowing handgun carry have done a lot to decrease the crime rates, (just because bad guys know their next victim might blow them away). I'm afraid U're wrong about me.

[CarbonGrips]

@CarbonGrips I am a good person but I am NOT a person that sees killing a chicken and killing a person as being even close to the same thing. I think you do see them as the same. I have killed on a farm before and I have hunted, but I am not a hunter. I don't hunt anymore, just don't enjoy it. I also see a difference in killing a guy that is trying to kill you, & killing a person to rob them or over anger. There is a difference in murder and self defense. taking a life and protecting a life.

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips well its distressing to hear you have killed animals in the past. i believe in intellectual improvement. i hope we can move forward from that now. you agree with you 100% that there is a difference in killing an aggressor and an innocent person. but this is why i dislike animal hurters - because THEY are the aggressors.. see my point?

:P

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic "but this is why i dislike animal hurters - because THEY are the aggressors"

So what? People don't usually hunt just to kill things. They use the dead animal for something, usually food and clothing. That being said, some animals ar ejust pests that destroy crops and need killed because they reproduce so fast and they kill live stock, pets, and crops. What form of life is ok to kill in your opinion? Are bugs, mice, insects, worms, rats, any of those things ok to kill?

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips i read your profile statement and agree, its better to complain about the causes of murder rather than guns because if its not guns it will be knifes etc. but although we cant tell people what to do, we can create safer atmospheres through emotional and psychological influence. guilt is more powerful than money (unless you're a corporation). what society do you want your children living in? one that accepts guns everywhere and killing or one that disapproves of all violence? simple!

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic We accept the rights of non criminals to be armed here, but we do not accept killing people unless it is in self defense.

[MarilulaneMusic]

@CarbonGrips carbon, the essential point is that man must elevate himself from his primitive tendencies and enhance the human mind, so that an undeveloped world is created into a sensible and happy place for all living creatures. walking round with guns is no different from cavemen walking round with clubs. we must bring children up in a better system, show them a better way, so they can teach their children better etc. that is the way to lasting change!!!! :P

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic Pure silliness. What do you suggest should be done about the animals that destroy crops? Animals like wild pigs for example. There was a time before guns when rocks and fists were the only weapons and even back then, the best weapons were used to attack and to defend. Every animal species in every time history has killed to benefit itself and in doing that, another had to die. If it had not killed, it might have died. Get use to killing, it has, and always will be part of life. 

[CarbonGrips]

@MarilulaneMusic You also never answered my question about what animals do you think it IS okay to kill. Mice and rats spread disease and so do insects etc. Do you believe it is okay for people to kill those living creatures. Do you believe it is okay for your immune system to kill the viruses and bacteria that get into your body and try to kill you? If you want the "killing" to stop, then lets cover what killing is allowed and what is not in your opinion.

[Urbitrix]

An armed society is a polite and law-abiding society.

The liberals want you disarmed while their limosines and armed guards, police and bodyguards ride roughshod over you...

[Bozewani]

@Urbitrix ah the typical 2nd Amendment neocon Republican.

Move to Arizona and kill a few illegal immigrants

[DaSlug32]

The ANC is disarming the Boers and other Europeans, whom they deem as a threat to their power. Once you are defenseless, they will slaughter the lot of you. KEEP YOUR GUNS.