Trust and Transformation: From Prison to Acceptance

[beefbonemusic]

This video is inaccurate. There are in fact over 30 teachers employed at San Quentin, 7 classrooms, 1 independent study teacher, 1 distance learning teacher, and more than 20 teachers who do cell-front teaching in the reception blocks and the gym, plus a full assessment and GED testing crew, and multiple college class offerings. Yesterday was the annual graduation ceremony in which 100 men received vocational, GED, high school and college certificates and degrees. You should have filmed that.

[1skylimit]

Thanks for the info. I appreciate the honesty of someone who knows what they have witnessed.

[vNCAwizard]

Darn the low character count!

I was pleased to see that you use Wikipedia to bolster your intellect. Do you edit as well?

[vNCAwizard]

Well, I did read a good deal of the discussion, though much was of little value; mostly some jabbering about ethnic and cultural name calling and some cheap bravado. Maybe a few wolf tickets.

Observations are fine, if they are presented as either qualitative only (so sample size matters) or quantitative, in which case give us the number.

It is easy to talk past one-another, or spend time on a mutual mudslinging escapade. Harder is perhaps ignoring the mud, and concentrating on the issue.

[phxfreddy]

Doubtful

[Tenatiouz]

Let's push for the legalization of Marijuana NOW! USA is in dire need of new money and we have no more manufacturing jobs available. Growing and distributing Marijuana can be taught with "On-The-Job Training" and it can save our country, and give our citizens jobs!

::::OFFER SOLUTIONS, NOT JUST SIGNS:::::

:::::COPY PASTE IF YOU SUPPORT NEW MONEY FOR OUR COUNTRY!! BE A PATRIOT SAVE AMERICA!!!:::::

[cyborgtroy]

Be a patriot, don't spam.

And don't call the US America.

America is the continent.

[Tenatiouz]

shut the fuck up, now youre just being annoying. I said usa first and people know I'm talking about AMERICA USA. Even if I meant all the Americas, we need to help our neighbors too you selfish prick.

[Ebdomos]

That is impractical, as there is not a wide consensus, nor a majority who believes that Pot should be legal.

[Tenatiouz]

That's ridiculous to even say with belief,. Of course there is a majority that believes pot should be legal. Just watch any news station that held polls asking if pot should be legal, the numbers were overwhelming. Not to mention that pot is pretty much legal in California, and we all know what California does, most other states follow in our footsteps. Mendocino county alone lets their community grow up to 20 plants legally. Most other states are adopting similar laws. You need more research

[Ebdomos]

A majority represents over 50 percent of the population.

I apologize, but I speak from experience, not a scientific method. In my experience, people do not want to legalize pot to better society, they just want to smoke pot. The people who I know who are considered to be Pot smokers, live miserable or immoral lives, and often get into harder drugs.

Coming from a town like vancouver, the down town east side is a real life example why drugs are detrimental to society and peoples lives.

[Tenatiouz]

You are speaking of synthetic drugs, like heroin and cocaine and crack cocaine, and oxycotin that you can get from doctors. Have you ever seen a man kill another man because he needed more pot? Have you seen a man give another man oral sex for mushrooms? Have you seen gang wars over ayahuasca hallucinogens? People like you associate synthetic drugs with natural plants.

[Ebdomos]

Quite simply, the people on the street all started by smoking pot, and I have heard stories from dealers and smokers of how they used, or were victims of brutal violence in accordance to dealing.

As well, there are many dealers here who lace their pot with dangerous and addictive substances. It also makes people lose short term memory, and many people become very lazy...

Every day I walk by a 3 guys who sit on the street holding a sign "Need money for Pot", they are not contributing to society.

[Tenatiouz]

Now you are just speaking falsities. Every person on the streets started with pot? No that is completely false, as a matter of fact, 7-10 homeless people are alcoholics. You are just spreading propaganda now. They are severely sick people that have a horrendous case of alcoholism and they need help. They aren't lazy potheads, what kind of evidence is that? That would never hold up in court let alone a sensible debate.

[Tenatiouz]

Everything you have just said was based on hearsay. Therefore you cannot even be counted as a credible witness. I'm pretty sure you've smoked pot yourself, if you haven't, I know for sure that someone in your family has and I bet they aren't running around like chickens with their heads cut off, because pot is so dangerous. Bringing hearsay to a debate is a good way to end a conversation. Next time bring some better firepower with you.

[Ebdomos]

My brother has smoked pot, and he admits that it had been detrimental to his life.

Please do not use genetic fallacies against me.

[Tenatiouz]

You have no proof that it was detrimental nor do you even have proof you have a brother. I bet your some kind of alcoholic that smokes two packs a day, and brown noses against the people that smoke pot. You want scientific proof? scientificfactsofpotDOTcom

[Tenatiouz]

Not everyone just wants to legalize pot to smoke, in fact even with it illegal it doesn't make a bit of difference to the pot smokers, because cops don't mess with the pot smokers, they mess with the cultivators, the growers. We want to legalize pot because pot is the American way. The 'Declaration of Independence' was written on hemp which is a cannabis plant. The cannabis plant is not just useful for smoking it's fruits. It's useful for fuel, food, paper, ethanol, oils, medicine.

[Tenatiouz]

I live in Los Angeles California, home of all the drugs and gangs. No one has more experience in this type of situation than the Californian citizens. Down here, if you are in a drug rehab for marijuana, someone put you up to it. It is absolutely laughable to have someone say marijuana is a drug in any way, shape, or form. In order for something to be a drug it has to be a synthetic, which marijuana is not, it is completely natural.

[Tenatiouz]

There is nothing, genetics wise, in pot that makes you want another drug or genetics, that is absolutely impossible for a drug to make you want another type of genetics. Not only is the theory of 'Gateway Drugs' not a plausible one, it is absolutely impossible according to physics. People do other things because of curiosity, or the want to 'Fit in' or what have you. If pot smokes live immoral lives that is their choice, it wasn't because of the genetics of the plant, that is absurd.

[Ebdomos]

That curiosity then stems from Pot, my friends tell me this, and there are many people who admit this in their life.

To what you said is impossible, what is your source?

It is not a right, and thus should not be a choice to live an immoral life, unless it is in parallel to a countries statutes and laws.

And, you are attacking a straw man, please stop.

[Tenatiouz]

What is my source? Ask any scientist, ask ANYONE that has ever taken a science class. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ONE GENETICS TO BUILD, IN YOUR BRAIN, A NEED FOR ANOTHER SET OF COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GENETICS. You are absolutely laughable at this point. Yes it is in our laws and statutes to consume and grow marijuana. Which 39 of our states have recently testified to, before congress. California politicians are pushing to not only legalize for patients but for everyone, as well as other states.

[Ebdomos]

Provide a specific source, generalized statements are useless.

[Tenatiouz]

Ha ha, the stupidity meets no ends with you. Many people believed the world was flat also, I guess if many believe it doesn't actually make it so. Hearsay never wins buddy, I hate to break it to you.

[Ebdomos]

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

[Tenatiouz]

Many people believed the computers would crash in 2000 also, hmmm I guess it doesn't make that so either, even though many people believed it. Fact is Fact, no argument can change it. Truth can stand it's own before any scrutiny. No word plays can change that. You are just wasting my time.

[Ebdomos]

Style over substance is a logical fallacy which occurs when one emphasises the way in which the argument is presented, while marginalising (or outright ignoring) the content of the argument. In some cases, the fallacy is employed as a form of ad hominem attack.

[Tenatiouz]

Ramblings of an old man, that is all. Good luck with your 401k and your SS. Hope the retirement works out for you, assuming you don't lose your home and everything else in the process. The war on drugs was never a war on drugs, it was a profitable business conducted through the politics of the pharmaceutical companies. The country is going to legalize to increase tax revenue, like it or not, it doesn't matter. It is what is going to happen.

[Ebdomos]

First: An argumentum ad crumenam argument, also known as an argument to the purse, is a logical fallacy of concluding that a statement is correct because the speaker is rich (or that a statement is incorrect because the speaker is poor).

Second, Im 21

Third, Im canadian...

And like I said, I speak from personal experience. It is easy to use studies to justify any belief we have, but there is no doubt in the peoples minds of whom I know, that Pot has a negative and detrimental effect.

[Tenatiouz]

21? Ha ha, take your latin somewhere else buddy, you're not even old enough to have an opinion about the matter. You're not even old enough to have an opinion about women, let alone global politics. People told me Canadians were lazy people that barely finished highschool let alone college, I think they were just talking to people like you. Canadians know marijuana and they know politics, you're just that one special case of shame and stupidity of the country.

[Ebdomos]

According to your profile you are 22, I would appreciate it if you would stop attacking irrelevant characteristics, and spreading words of prejudice and hatred. If you would like to attack my personality rather than addressing the topic at hand, then all you do is create a perception that Pot Smokers are overzealous bullies, who are would rather engage in mock contests, rather than properly and openly debating the topic at hand.

Please be nicer, thats all I ask...

[Tenatiouz]

Did you go to college and where? What was your majors, when did you graduate highschool? Probably neither, and yet you talk about issues as if you've been studying them for years. People way better than you have already done the studies, so no one is going to let a little small time Canadian change their opinion on the 'War on Drugs'. I've seen more peoples lives destroyed by pills than any other drug in history. In fact alcohol and tobacco kills the most, marijuana kills 0 people/year.

[Ebdomos]

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An appeal to intellectual and mental stability or capability, or a reduction to the opposite (also known as an appeal to psychology), is an informal fallacy which asserts that the opposing party's argument is wrong or discreditable based upon an assumption, proven or unproven, of the opposing party's intelligence or mental stability.

...

You have gone through just about every genetic fallacy in the book. I have been respectful and nice, why cant you be too?

[Tenatiouz]

You are Canadian and stupid! ha ha! It's already being legalized everywhere, so just shut up already. Wasting both our time, just speaking about rhetorics. Good Bye

[Ebdomos]

Well, I guess that means I win the debate.

~Hooray~

[Tenatiouz]

You First

[Ebdomos]

The argument from silence(aka argumentum ex silentio)is generally a conclusion based on silence or lack of contrary evidence. In the field of classical studies, it often refers to the deduction from the lack of references to a subject in the available writings of an author to the conclusion that he was ignorant of it. When used as a logical proof in pure reasoning, the argument is classed among the fallacies, but an argument from silence can be a valid and convincing form of abductive reasoning.

[Tenatiouz]

Marijuana and Medicine: Assessing the Science Base (1999)

Institute of Medicine (IOM)

There's a scientific research that was conducted years ago, go ahead and read that 500 page report, if you can stomach it of course. Also, it doesn't matter what you say, you are a part of a dying generation, you will be dust, and we will be the next generation to rule. We have already made marijuana legal for medicinal use in over 13 states, we are already on the works of making it legal for everyone. We won!

[vNCAwizard]

Repeated review of the definition of philosophical fallacies does not win your argument. At best, it dismisses the arguments of others, where it would be best to interpret.

As to the detriment of cannabis, you assert the existence of same but, you do not cite. Where are your references?

[Ebdomos]

Didnt you read? I'm "Canadian and stupid! ha ha!"

My references are my observations, people I know, or the homeless I have conversed. It is not a well structured opinion, as I have not dedicated much of my faculty to the topic. As to this point as well, my opinions have slightly changed to a non opinionated, more open to the discussion of its affect on social culture.

Perhaps you could loan an opinion to me that wont cause me to have to continuously quote wikipedia?

[Tenatiouz]

For every person you've ever seen live an immoral life because of 'pot' so you say. There is another 100 people that smoked pot that lived very productive lives and still do. Take your pick of any fortune 500 company, most of those men smoked pot or still do. Nobel prize winners, yea do some research on those men, most of those guys smoked pot also. Lets talk about scientific findings, the men that found the DNA structure were taking ayahuasca and pot. Your findings are questionable at the least

[Ebdomos]

An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges that "If many believe so, it is so."

[cosy18]

not many ppl there :(

but more on youtube :))