Oh Topher... You poor soul....I wish Adelle could protect him from himself. i love her so much in this. She reminds me of a mother. i guess in a way she is the mother in the doll house. I love her caring side. i haven't seen the second season so i'm terribly lost. I am very sad to hear that the series was cancelled. It was very very interesting.
This is prolly my second favorite scene of Topher, my 1st favorite being the scene between him & Claire Saunders in 'Vows' SO2E01.
2:20 I love how the camera doesn't cut away during;
"Why didn't I think of that? ... Did I think of that?"
Throughout the show it became apparent/interesting to me how the Dolls are more fulfilled when compared to employers @ Dollhouse. DeWitt & Topher in particular, seem to gain acceptance vicariously.
To be honest I think it's very easy to hate Topher in the beginning of the series considering how he seems to be so completely heartless in terms of manipulating the dolls. He doesn't really see them as people, just as things to program and figure out. He is a sociopath. But his redemption is one of the things that makes Dollhouse really a great show. Bennett and the ending of Dollhouse really redeem him for me. But there's no denying he was a horrible person at the beginning of the series.
To be honest I think it's very easy to hate Topher in the beginning of the series considering how he seems to be so completely heartless in terms of manipulating the dolls. He doesn't really see them as people, just as things to program and figure out. He is a sociopath. But his redemption is one of the things that makes Dollhouse really a great show. Bennett and the ending of Dollhouse really redeem him for me. But there's no denying he was a horrible person at the beginning of the series.
@solidarity7 I really don't think Topher was ever a horrible person. He was just excited that he could have fun and do so much. The Dollhouse, to him, was like a Wonka's Chocolate factory to a child. He couldn't restrain himself. He had no one holding him back. And, bonus, he got to do all sorts of things that no one else could. If anything, a lack of self-control combined with the oppertunity to over-indulge is all he's guilty of. Honestly, he's a child at heart. At least, that's my take.
He talks about Topher in interviews as being a child. It's true. I really think that Topher's child-like mentality would have him breaking down and crying when he talks about the phone (around 1:30).
I just wish he played this scene with more lament, pain and tears rather than mildless stares of relived pain. Topher in REAL situations always brought out his humanity.
@EPeters208 Hardly. He's in denial. He can barely remember he's the one responsible. Like a kid who accidentally broke his gaming console... Is what i think.
@BuffyTheSlayer14 The technology of the dollhouse got out. Armies were created by simply calling people on the phone. The whole world has gone to hell. It's a good episode (along with epitaph 2) you should watch it.
@H2Ohexagon And what is Broken? And what is whole? What is sanity and what is not? Genius and madness oft exist in tandem. And who is able to truthfully tell the difference?
I cannot watch this scene without crying. All through S1 I kept thinking when they were going to show Topher actually realize the other side of what he does. Fran pulls it off brilliantly. Both of them just break my heart.
Ohh, this scene is so sad... poor Topher; I cry every time I watch this... but I have to say, with actors this amazing and a show this phenomenal, created by someone as creative as Joss Whedon, why oh WHY would the series be cancelled???
Fran Kranz does an amazing job in this scene and it really shows his abilities as an actor that he can make Topher's character do an unexpected 180 and make it believable.
So this is who Adelle really is when you strip away the ice-queen exterior. It's a shame we didn't get to see more of her soft side in the regular season episodes.
Whiskey wasn't wiped; the Dr. Saunders imprint just faded over time as Whiskey remained alone in the Dollhouse, holding down the fort. The reason I think this is because the little girl imprinted with Echo embraced Whiskey and refered to her as Dr. Saunders before Whiskey corrected her. This imprint of Echo was made just before everybody minus Whiskey headed off to Safe Haven, suggesting Whiskey was not wiped prior to everybody leaving.
I love Topher and seeing him like this and how in this finale season his breakdown finally made sense. They broke him and now he feels he's to blame, after he unknowingly created the end. BASTARDS! I can't believe it's canceled. This upsets me, this is like one of the best shows to grace television, even if it was only for two seasons. =(
Oh, man..."Why didn't I think of that? Did I think of that?" THAT is where my heart seriously breaks. The acting there is phenomenal. He delivered that perfectly. And then he has the full-blown breakdown...Oh, man! The whole scene was just so upsetting. And it wasn't just Topher that did a fantastic job. I thought Adelle was simply perfect throughout the whole thing -- she showed a real love for Topher. This scene was so amazing and heart wrenching...I love it and hate it at the same time.
It's on the dvd set, downloadable on itunes, and, of course through illegal download and illegal streaming. The episode title is "Epitaph One." Really awesome!
I liked him before, despite the moral ambiguity, but... This, i just... It felt kind if hard to deal with the fact that i was just watching a tv screen, i wanted to hug him so bad...
I love this episode, I love this scene, and I love Fran Kranz's acting. That said, has anyone else noticed that the Epitaph One Apocalypse is similar to the plot of Stephen King's Cell? (what with the phones causing the brain wipes?) I mean, I'm sure Jed and Maurissa didn't do it on purpose. But I was just wondering if I'm the only one who noticed that.
I don't understand why everyone hates Topher. There is so much more to his character than what we see I'm sure of it. Topher in this just breaks my heart. He kinda reminds me of River from Firefly a little bit.
I guess you would have to like tophers character to have this scene break your heart or be sad. topher was a jerk who played with peoples lives, seems fitting he would go crazy in the end
Well, I do like them as a couple on the series, when they're acting like their regular selves . They're pretty funny in their way of acting towards each other. But in this scene, he seems so volnerable and I think there's a bit more of her acting like a mother than as a lover. So in this scene, no, not quite as a couple. However heartbreaking and at the same time beautiful it is, but apart from that. I dunno, yeah, I would think they make a good couple. (Especially when they both got drugged ;p)
Chill out, Eva. It's one thing to express your opinion, it's another to repeat yourself over and over. You didn't like the episode? Fine. You want to say why? FINE. You've said it. Several times! The horse is dead, stop beating it. Also, even if you didn't like the episode, if THIS particular scene doesn't break your heart, you probably don't have one!
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This epidode is nothing but the drivel of a religious zealot. Complete theist propaganda. Has no one else noticed that the message of this epidose is: technology bad, religion good. It's so contrived it makes me want to vomit and the comments prove to me the extent of ignorance in this world...
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Describing science as a kid playing with matches, questioning if scientific discovery is curiosity or arrogance, assuming the human race will destory itself and the survivors are the ones who pray to god for thanks and forgiveness? Note that i never mentioned Joss Whedon, i merely stated the overall message of the episode and, in truth, the entire series. If you mess with the brain the 'soul' doesn't remain in tact. Fact. How can an atheist make a series about the existence of the human soul?
The only message here seems to be that the technology is imperfect and is open to abuse. Really, you can't assume anything here about a "soul." The entire premise of the show depends on the assumption that the brain does dictate every part of our behavior. If a soul existed, the stuff in the show wouldn't be possible.
And think of it as a retelling of the Garden of Eden. It seems very very supportive of Eve and critical of god. Dismissing this show as religious propaganda is just stupid.
And even if it is in fact meant to be a condemnation of curiosity and technology, it's still entertaining. I'm an atheist and I enjoy Christian and religious fiction. It's too bad so little is any good.
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I did enjoy the series at first but it just turned into something i didn't expect. I have heard that Joss Whedon was unhappy with changes to he series forced by Fox so maybe that's why it was so insistent on the existence of a soul. Who knows? The fact that they continuously mention a 'soul' and say that you can't erase it and that Caroline and the other Dolls could remember things from their past that were 'erased' suggests the idea of body and soul, which is a false one.
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I am tired of the amount of religious and Cartesian ideas propagated by the media. They confuse people and make them obedient by suggesting life after death or by telling people they're all special or some comforting crap. People need to wake up and realise that things that are comforting are not always good for them and there is comfort beyond the lies and pseudo-philosophy of religion and western cartesian thought.
A character says they can't erase it. Another character says they don't exist and says "good luck with that whole god thing." Really doesn't mean much. As for them remembering, it's possible that the technology simply doesn't work.
In the end, I really don't care one way or the other. Yes, the concept of a soul is ridiculous, but this is fiction. They want to write a story dependent on one, it doesn't matter to me. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
I think, that the show is meant to show that there is a soul. I mean look at the characters. Echo regains pieces of her memory and starts becoming someone in the first season and in the second she actually is someone, she's Echo. The personalities dumped into her head changed her brain. She's not Caroline anymore, that's for sure, but who we are is made up of the things we experience. She's had all her memories of Caroline wiped away. But at the same time she's still a good person who's trying
to help others the only way she can. Even the others are starting to show personalities, Victor is protective of Sierra and in the flashbacks he was a soldier trying to save lives, Sierra was a free spirit before Nolan and she still seems to have some of that even without her memories. They still seem to have some of the same characteristics that they had before their first wipe.
Tough to tell at the moment, and really any opinion that anyone has is gonna be shaped by personal biases
Anyway, I'd argue the opposite, The fact that she's so different from Caroline supports a reductionist POV. If she had a "soul" then wouldn't her personality be essentially unchanged? It's not
IRL, our personalities are dependent on our memories. Again, this supports a reductionist POV, if you replace the memories, you replace the person. The entire premise of Dollhouse seems (continued)
to depend on every single aspect of a person depending entirely on their physical brain structure and on their memories. If it weren't for that, the technology in Dollhouse wouldn't exist and there would be no story.
As for why they're remembering, even with a rewritable CD, you can only record on it a certain number of times. It's likely the technology simply isn't perfect. There would be no story if it was. cont
Again though, my opinion is gonna be shaped by my biases, just like yours is. This is just me trying to be objective as I can. The debate is pointless, even if it's kinda fun.
Even though Echo is different from Caroline I still feel that they do have a soul. I don't believe that the soul is the personality. Echo, like Caroline, is trying to 'save' everyone in the Dollhouse wether they want it or not. Caroline wanted to save the animals she knew were being tortured by Rossum and Echo wants to free all the people who are trapped in the dollhouse.
To me the soul is the essence of a person. It's something that can never be wiped away. (cont)
I would like to quote the tag line for the first season, "You can wipe away a memory, but can you wipe away a soul?'
Echo is going to do her best to help people even without her memories because that's who she is. Caroline is just a sequence of memories, but they have a common goal to help. Leading to believe that she has a good soul that's stayed with her despite having her personality wiped away.
(I love MaxRide!!!!!!!) oh and i thought that Sierra's free spirted-ness was when she was a skitzo and when she had the imprint of and artist....?....
ok! sorry. i got a bit confused. now it makes sence......... yeah, Noland got what was coming to him. good for her..... for killing him i mean. if that doesn't sound odd at all.
You know what the creepiest thing is? In the first ep of season two, when Topher's talking on the phone to Claire about the rats, he says "I know what I know." I didn't catch it the first time, but the second time I watched it I heard that and was like... O_o....
Oh God I haven't watched this since Comic con. Topher is a character I connect so strongly with and seeing him crumble just breaks me. They did an unbelievable job. Epitaph One isn't just the best Dollhouse ep in my opinion, it's one of the best hours of television I have ever seen.
This is, without a doubt, the most phenomenal piece of philosophical content this show produced. Topher himself asks quite directly; is it better to pick up the phone, or not? He can't answer it. He's afraid to answer it, because in answering, he picks a side.
What this really highlights is our ability to develop technology, and our inability to defend against it. He's done something truly brilliant, but the brilliance surpassed his ability to rationalize and keep it controlled.
"If I think I can make things work, is that curiosity or arrogance?", culminating with "I know what I know" over and over again... we have a brilliant man struggling to assert himself.
Socrates said "The only thing I know is that I know nothing". So what does this tell us?
i love dollhouse and the way fran kranz acted in that scene was amazing great actor i have watched this scene like 5 times now cant wait for the new series to come out xoxoxoxoxoxo
This was a fantastic scene in a fantastic episode. I was really impressed with Fran Kranz's acting, what with this and the scene with Victor/ Mr. Ambrose.
I spent this scene with my mouth wide open. The acting in this scene made my eyes brim with tears. Topher is my favourite character and to see him even more childlike than before is just heartbreaking. This was wonderfully done; one of the best scenes in the episode and that's not easy.
oh man tihsm ade me cry. I love Topher, e is my favourtie. I always kinda thought him and Dewitt would be a cute couple. Ever since that episode were they toke that drug.
"If I think figure things out is that curiosity or is that arrogance?"
When I watched this episode at Comic-Con that line hit so hard. That IS Topher. I've always loved him as a character (even though he's a creep) but for the longest time I couldn't really figure him out.
"Why didn't I think of that?... Did I think of that?" I love love love Adelle and Topher. They had such great chemistry in "echoes" when they're both tripping. The two of them listening to Boyd play the piano and this bit from Epitaph One are far and away my favorite scenes in season one.
In the episode Echoes Adelle and Topher become affected by the psychedelic drug and start acting like they're stoned. He takes his pants off, she's jumping on a trampoline and eating snackfood. When they bot call Boyd for an update they find out he's been drugged as well when he starts playing the piano for them over the speaker phone. Their acting in that scene is hilarious and fun. It cemented in my mind that these two are amazing just playig of each other in a room. Much like this.
Touching on almost too many different levels at once... DeWitt seems to be one of the only ones left who cares about Topher at all, the poor guy, even if it's just a maternal protection, as she's at least still in charge of keeping everyone safe. He went from "kid in the candy shop" to "kid locked in the basement" sometime between the shown events... and it shattered him so completely T_T.
Just like in the scene in the kitchen when "Victor" is talking about Rossomes plans and he tells Topher hes on the top of the list "to live forever" Topher is sooo quite in that scene it's creepy.
Yeah... normally Topher speaks his mind as he pleases, but I don't think he even had a line of dialogue in the kitchen - Clive Ambrose in Victor's body, talking so casually about abusing the technology in ways he -and- DeWitt were already against? I wouldn't be surprised if, when that happens in its proper time, Topher starts doubting Rossum's intentions or his own worth, and the metaphorical camel's back starts being piled high with straws.
Pretty much the episode takes place in the future and we find out that the boss of the dollhouse used the phones to make people into killers who are not turned into dolls. So pretty much everyone is trying to survive or go to this place called "Safe Haven" and Dr Sauder stayed back to help strangers that happen to find this dollhouse and imprint one of the people with Echo's imprint because Echo knows the way to Safe Haven.
I knew it! I was thinking the same thing. And that made me even sadder. She's just waiting for him and leaning on that bar...oh gosh. It really gets to a person.
And Topher...well that scene was sad and whoa for me because of the delivery of it all. I never would have expected it. Adelle and Topher have great chemistry. It's saddening.
I can't imagine what Einstein felt when the US started on the Manhattan Project.
Serene1Psychosis 2 weeks ago
Oh Topher... You poor soul....I wish Adelle could protect him from himself. i love her so much in this. She reminds me of a mother. i guess in a way she is the mother in the doll house. I love her caring side. i haven't seen the second season so i'm terribly lost. I am very sad to hear that the series was cancelled. It was very very interesting.
magz21dec 1 month ago
*Watches this again for the first time since cancellation*
...
Fuck. *Rages at Fox again*
Vamphaery 1 month ago 3
Poor Topher! :'(
Shadowkatze16 2 months ago
This is prolly my second favorite scene of Topher, my 1st favorite being the scene between him & Claire Saunders in 'Vows' SO2E01.
2:20 I love how the camera doesn't cut away during;
"Why didn't I think of that? ... Did I think of that?"
Throughout the show it became apparent/interesting to me how the Dolls are more fulfilled when compared to employers @ Dollhouse. DeWitt & Topher in particular, seem to gain acceptance vicariously.
LuNaRiSiNgHiGh 6 months ago
God Fran Kranz is a spectacular actor! *-* this scene is one of the best during the whole show..
MinniHowl 7 months ago
Was Whiskey/Doc. Saunders a sleeper? Wasn't sure her role in the show towards the end.
TombRaiderFann 9 months ago
Actually made me cry the first time I watched it.
jestaariadne 11 months ago
this was the best scne in the best season one epi for me!! Adele was so sweet ...a true mother protecting her own genius
chocolatelina 11 months ago
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To be honest I think it's very easy to hate Topher in the beginning of the series considering how he seems to be so completely heartless in terms of manipulating the dolls. He doesn't really see them as people, just as things to program and figure out. He is a sociopath. But his redemption is one of the things that makes Dollhouse really a great show. Bennett and the ending of Dollhouse really redeem him for me. But there's no denying he was a horrible person at the beginning of the series.
solidarity7 11 months ago
To be honest I think it's very easy to hate Topher in the beginning of the series considering how he seems to be so completely heartless in terms of manipulating the dolls. He doesn't really see them as people, just as things to program and figure out. He is a sociopath. But his redemption is one of the things that makes Dollhouse really a great show. Bennett and the ending of Dollhouse really redeem him for me. But there's no denying he was a horrible person at the beginning of the series.
solidarity7 11 months ago
@solidarity7 I really don't think Topher was ever a horrible person. He was just excited that he could have fun and do so much. The Dollhouse, to him, was like a Wonka's Chocolate factory to a child. He couldn't restrain himself. He had no one holding him back. And, bonus, he got to do all sorts of things that no one else could. If anything, a lack of self-control combined with the oppertunity to over-indulge is all he's guilty of. Honestly, he's a child at heart. At least, that's my take.
LittleLanya 7 months ago
"If I want to figure things out, is that curiosity or arrogance?" that line gets me every time... the tears just roll
SpoofzRus 1 year ago 4
@SpoofzRus
The line is "If I think I can figure things out, is that curiosity or arrogance?"
But I agree; it's one of the most powerful lines of the scene.
IxadminxI 1 year ago 6
I love Topher..and I feel sooo sorry for him during both Epitahs..and the end of Epitah 2..breaks my heart and makes me love him even more..
Kachka01 1 year ago
the ep this came from was soooo sad....... just the topher bit tho
W3rto 1 year ago
It's so sad and sweet =)
jodie78 1 year ago
how can anyone hate Topher? he's like the best character!
supernuke 1 year ago 7
when he holds onto her, even when she gets up, he's like a little lost kid. it's heartbreaking.
PrincessSunlynn 1 year ago 2
My favorite scene of the whole series. both seasons.
DCATOTFREAK 1 year ago 2
He talks about Topher in interviews as being a child. It's true. I really think that Topher's child-like mentality would have him breaking down and crying when he talks about the phone (around 1:30).
I just wish he played this scene with more lament, pain and tears rather than mildless stares of relived pain. Topher in REAL situations always brought out his humanity.
EPeters208 1 year ago
@EPeters208 Hardly. He's in denial. He can barely remember he's the one responsible. Like a kid who accidentally broke his gaming console... Is what i think.
Namaechan 1 year ago
@EPeters208 Ok... I'm totally lost apparently this one was unaired? What happened in it?
BuffyTheSlayer14 9 months ago
@BuffyTheSlayer14 The technology of the dollhouse got out. Armies were created by simply calling people on the phone. The whole world has gone to hell. It's a good episode (along with epitaph 2) you should watch it.
EPeters208 9 months ago
@EPeters208 I will watch it. Sounds good.
BuffyTheSlayer14 9 months ago
I home decore like broken Toph.
... Am I broken, too?
H2Ohexagon 1 year ago
@H2Ohexagon And what is Broken? And what is whole? What is sanity and what is not? Genius and madness oft exist in tandem. And who is able to truthfully tell the difference?
gettotheGate 1 year ago
And if I was still in Drama I'd probably cut Adelle's lines and do a monologue of this. It's just brilliantly written.
VairyTay 1 year ago
That absolutely crushed my heart, I'm all teary-eyed.
VairyTay 1 year ago
This is so sad... ;( " that's so brilliant! why didn't i think of that... did i think of that?"
DicStarsProductions 1 year ago
This is was a bittersweet moment for me.
RainTheLeadmare 1 year ago
probably the bet scene in the whole show
kurumais 1 year ago
i miss this show. it was absolutely incredible. this scene is heartbreaking. and real. i miss it. :[
JESSiLiCi0USx3 1 year ago
great acting job from both of them..wow...*.*
freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez 1 year ago 2
Poor Topher. This scene makes me cry every time. Adelle is truly amazing once you strip away the ice. She really loves the people she works with.
0732jamie 1 year ago 14
what was that other show where Eliza Dushku was playing a girl that would see someone die then have to stop it or figure out who did it?
redtailedhawkdude 1 year ago
Tru Calling
EpitaphN1 1 year ago
@redtailedhawkdude Tru Calling :)
TaraJayneRikku 1 year ago
I cannot watch this scene without crying. All through S1 I kept thinking when they were going to show Topher actually realize the other side of what he does. Fran pulls it off brilliantly. Both of them just break my heart.
TheAppleEffect 1 year ago 5
Ohh, this scene is so sad... poor Topher; I cry every time I watch this... but I have to say, with actors this amazing and a show this phenomenal, created by someone as creative as Joss Whedon, why oh WHY would the series be cancelled???
Zzcrysta1ba11yY 2 years ago 8
one of the best scenes EVER
you are great guys
FOX you miserables
ygyvrctr 2 years ago 6
Fran Kranz does an amazing job in this scene and it really shows his abilities as an actor that he can make Topher's character do an unexpected 180 and make it believable.
mywonderwall27 2 years ago 7
Fran Kranz did such an amazing job in this scene. I can't even watch without crying.
truegemini1 2 years ago 7
So this is who Adelle really is when you strip away the ice-queen exterior. It's a shame we didn't get to see more of her soft side in the regular season episodes.
iNatalie 2 years ago 9
one of the greatest scenes in recent tv history. (well, dvd history, as it wasn't broadcast.)
staex 2 years ago 8
So I'm guessing they reimprint Saunders into Whiskey? And then eventually she's wiped?
jaxn 2 years ago
Whiskey wasn't wiped; the Dr. Saunders imprint just faded over time as Whiskey remained alone in the Dollhouse, holding down the fort. The reason I think this is because the little girl imprinted with Echo embraced Whiskey and refered to her as Dr. Saunders before Whiskey corrected her. This imprint of Echo was made just before everybody minus Whiskey headed off to Safe Haven, suggesting Whiskey was not wiped prior to everybody leaving.
iNatalie 2 years ago 2
I love Topher and seeing him like this and how in this finale season his breakdown finally made sense. They broke him and now he feels he's to blame, after he unknowingly created the end. BASTARDS! I can't believe it's canceled. This upsets me, this is like one of the best shows to grace television, even if it was only for two seasons. =(
winchesterboyz89 2 years ago 3
I so wanted to be Adele in this scene. Topher's so cute.
HollyCaHa 2 years ago
I like this scene becuse it shows that Adelle really can bw nice.
weinmj 2 years ago 4
She really seems to have a soft spot for Topher, as we see in tonight ep.
AdrianMichelleHudgen 2 years ago 2
wait i dont understand when this clip was suppose to be put in the episode?
druselina 2 years ago
Oh, man..."Why didn't I think of that? Did I think of that?" THAT is where my heart seriously breaks. The acting there is phenomenal. He delivered that perfectly. And then he has the full-blown breakdown...Oh, man! The whole scene was just so upsetting. And it wasn't just Topher that did a fantastic job. I thought Adelle was simply perfect throughout the whole thing -- she showed a real love for Topher. This scene was so amazing and heart wrenching...I love it and hate it at the same time.
nashrules13 2 years ago 71
@nashrules13 could not have said it better myself
Godsmadconscience 1 year ago
@nashrules13 "...love it and hate it at the same time" pretty much sums up the entire series.
countmall 2 months ago
i started crying when i first saw this episode. I love Topher i wanted to start yelling false at my tv!
artemisfan 2 years ago 4
why didnt this air? i want 2 see it
dragonfairy 2 years ago
It's on the dvd set, downloadable on itunes, and, of course through illegal download and illegal streaming. The episode title is "Epitaph One." Really awesome!
wiseass2147 2 years ago
I liked him before, despite the moral ambiguity, but... This, i just... It felt kind if hard to deal with the fact that i was just watching a tv screen, i wanted to hug him so bad...
Namaechan 2 years ago 6
This scene is even sadder after friday's episodes :/ thanks for posting :)
bloomingauthor7 2 years ago 8
:'(
Topher =(
calverjones 2 years ago 5
Comment removed
shishiodun 2 years ago
i loved Epitath One,
apparently the series finale is going to be called "Epitath Two: Return"
sequel maybe?
cant wait
EpitathN1 2 years ago 6
Fran Kranz is amazing...
Made me cry :'(
LoreleiLovett 2 years ago 8
if i bought the dvd case set fo season 1, would thsi episode be in them>
akaezzaka 2 years ago 2
I expect so yes.
Spike2709 2 years ago
yes, this episode was only shown on the DVD hence the now FOX or Sci-Fi (UK Channel) on the bottom or top of the screen
TheBrokenCircuit 2 years ago 2
yeah, its a bonus episode on the dvd
CupiditysAngel 2 years ago 2
I love this episode, I love this scene, and I love Fran Kranz's acting. That said, has anyone else noticed that the Epitaph One Apocalypse is similar to the plot of Stephen King's Cell? (what with the phones causing the brain wipes?) I mean, I'm sure Jed and Maurissa didn't do it on purpose. But I was just wondering if I'm the only one who noticed that.
wrdonerd 2 years ago 2
I really want to see this whole episode....
xACDCxRocks 2 years ago
you can download it from iTunes for just over a pound
cornishladx200 2 years ago
I don't understand why everyone hates Topher. There is so much more to his character than what we see I'm sure of it. Topher in this just breaks my heart. He kinda reminds me of River from Firefly a little bit.
RettaMac13 2 years ago 76
@RettaMac13 People hate Topher? He was my favourite character from the word go. I also liked Victor and Alpha.
Browncoatt22 7 months ago
@Browncoatt22 Wow I loved Topher and Victor, but Alpha seriously he was awful!
TheDianaJC 6 months ago
@TheDianaJC I liked him, he was a proper crazy.
Browncoatt22 6 months ago
I guess you would have to like tophers character to have this scene break your heart or be sad. topher was a jerk who played with peoples lives, seems fitting he would go crazy in the end
kdennyview86 2 years ago
This is so horrible to watch, really hearbreaking.
Damm joss knows exactly where to hit.
Evonnewench 2 years ago 8
Anyone else like this couple?
BenTaylor3907 2 years ago
Really? I definitely get the maternal vibes here rather than anything romantic...
kaniamia 2 years ago 9
Yeah, I think you're right!
BenTaylor3907 2 years ago
Adelle acts like a mother to Topher, but I love watching these two on set together, especially the ep where they both got drugged :)
Tumblekax 2 years ago 6
Well, I do like them as a couple on the series, when they're acting like their regular selves . They're pretty funny in their way of acting towards each other. But in this scene, he seems so volnerable and I think there's a bit more of her acting like a mother than as a lover. So in this scene, no, not quite as a couple. However heartbreaking and at the same time beautiful it is, but apart from that. I dunno, yeah, I would think they make a good couple. (Especially when they both got drugged ;p)
MasqueradedxBeauty 2 years ago
Most heartbreaking part of the series by far.
kaniamia 2 years ago 5
omg you have to have seen the ending of this episode when whiskey dies, that was the most moving scene of the season.
CupiditysAngel 2 years ago 4
Chill out, Eva. It's one thing to express your opinion, it's another to repeat yourself over and over. You didn't like the episode? Fine. You want to say why? FINE. You've said it. Several times! The horse is dead, stop beating it. Also, even if you didn't like the episode, if THIS particular scene doesn't break your heart, you probably don't have one!
metro121482 2 years ago 3
Oh my god I loved this episode so much. And seeing Topher break down like that broke my heart T_T
BeautifullyAbstract 2 years ago 7
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This epidode is nothing but the drivel of a religious zealot. Complete theist propaganda. Has no one else noticed that the message of this epidose is: technology bad, religion good. It's so contrived it makes me want to vomit and the comments prove to me the extent of ignorance in this world...
eva22456 2 years ago
"religion good"? Joss Whedon is an atheist.
joyce1175 2 years ago 8
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Describing science as a kid playing with matches, questioning if scientific discovery is curiosity or arrogance, assuming the human race will destory itself and the survivors are the ones who pray to god for thanks and forgiveness? Note that i never mentioned Joss Whedon, i merely stated the overall message of the episode and, in truth, the entire series. If you mess with the brain the 'soul' doesn't remain in tact. Fact. How can an atheist make a series about the existence of the human soul?
eva22456 2 years ago
The only message here seems to be that the technology is imperfect and is open to abuse. Really, you can't assume anything here about a "soul." The entire premise of the show depends on the assumption that the brain does dictate every part of our behavior. If a soul existed, the stuff in the show wouldn't be possible.
And think of it as a retelling of the Garden of Eden. It seems very very supportive of Eve and critical of god. Dismissing this show as religious propaganda is just stupid.
Freecell82 2 years ago 2
And even if it is in fact meant to be a condemnation of curiosity and technology, it's still entertaining. I'm an atheist and I enjoy Christian and religious fiction. It's too bad so little is any good.
Freecell82 2 years ago 2
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I did enjoy the series at first but it just turned into something i didn't expect. I have heard that Joss Whedon was unhappy with changes to he series forced by Fox so maybe that's why it was so insistent on the existence of a soul. Who knows? The fact that they continuously mention a 'soul' and say that you can't erase it and that Caroline and the other Dolls could remember things from their past that were 'erased' suggests the idea of body and soul, which is a false one.
eva22456 2 years ago
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I am tired of the amount of religious and Cartesian ideas propagated by the media. They confuse people and make them obedient by suggesting life after death or by telling people they're all special or some comforting crap. People need to wake up and realise that things that are comforting are not always good for them and there is comfort beyond the lies and pseudo-philosophy of religion and western cartesian thought.
eva22456 2 years ago
A character says they can't erase it. Another character says they don't exist and says "good luck with that whole god thing." Really doesn't mean much. As for them remembering, it's possible that the technology simply doesn't work.
In the end, I really don't care one way or the other. Yes, the concept of a soul is ridiculous, but this is fiction. They want to write a story dependent on one, it doesn't matter to me. I'm just playing devil's advocate here.
Freecell82 2 years ago 2
I think, that the show is meant to show that there is a soul. I mean look at the characters. Echo regains pieces of her memory and starts becoming someone in the first season and in the second she actually is someone, she's Echo. The personalities dumped into her head changed her brain. She's not Caroline anymore, that's for sure, but who we are is made up of the things we experience. She's had all her memories of Caroline wiped away. But at the same time she's still a good person who's trying
MaxRide284 2 years ago
to help others the only way she can. Even the others are starting to show personalities, Victor is protective of Sierra and in the flashbacks he was a soldier trying to save lives, Sierra was a free spirit before Nolan and she still seems to have some of that even without her memories. They still seem to have some of the same characteristics that they had before their first wipe.
MaxRide284 2 years ago
Tough to tell at the moment, and really any opinion that anyone has is gonna be shaped by personal biases
Anyway, I'd argue the opposite, The fact that she's so different from Caroline supports a reductionist POV. If she had a "soul" then wouldn't her personality be essentially unchanged? It's not
IRL, our personalities are dependent on our memories. Again, this supports a reductionist POV, if you replace the memories, you replace the person. The entire premise of Dollhouse seems (continued)
Freecell82 2 years ago
to depend on every single aspect of a person depending entirely on their physical brain structure and on their memories. If it weren't for that, the technology in Dollhouse wouldn't exist and there would be no story.
As for why they're remembering, even with a rewritable CD, you can only record on it a certain number of times. It's likely the technology simply isn't perfect. There would be no story if it was. cont
Freecell82 2 years ago
Again though, my opinion is gonna be shaped by my biases, just like yours is. This is just me trying to be objective as I can. The debate is pointless, even if it's kinda fun.
Freecell82 2 years ago
I agree the debate is fun.
Even though Echo is different from Caroline I still feel that they do have a soul. I don't believe that the soul is the personality. Echo, like Caroline, is trying to 'save' everyone in the Dollhouse wether they want it or not. Caroline wanted to save the animals she knew were being tortured by Rossum and Echo wants to free all the people who are trapped in the dollhouse.
To me the soul is the essence of a person. It's something that can never be wiped away. (cont)
MaxRide284 2 years ago
I would like to quote the tag line for the first season, "You can wipe away a memory, but can you wipe away a soul?'
Echo is going to do her best to help people even without her memories because that's who she is. Caroline is just a sequence of memories, but they have a common goal to help. Leading to believe that she has a good soul that's stayed with her despite having her personality wiped away.
MaxRide284 2 years ago
(I love MaxRide!!!!!!!) oh and i thought that Sierra's free spirted-ness was when she was a skitzo and when she had the imprint of and artist....?....
ColeteMartin 2 years ago
The artist was her real self. When she was a skitzo Nolan was drugging her to make her seem insane. Gives a whole new meaning to the word Obssessed
MaxRide284 2 years ago 2
ok! sorry. i got a bit confused. now it makes sence......... yeah, Noland got what was coming to him. good for her..... for killing him i mean. if that doesn't sound odd at all.
ColeteMartin 2 years ago
It's no big deal, Getting confused is fine. I'm just glad I helped you to understnad
MaxRide284 2 years ago 2
Um...no? Joss is atheist. Very much so. I don't see where you're getting 'religion good' out of this episode.
Talk about ignorance.
FlyinyourSoup 2 years ago 2
remember alpha uses a phone to wipe echo in the safecracker episode
when you go back and rewatch you see so much stuff that didnt seem important at the time
kurumais 2 years ago
You know what the creepiest thing is? In the first ep of season two, when Topher's talking on the phone to Claire about the rats, he says "I know what I know." I didn't catch it the first time, but the second time I watched it I heard that and was like... O_o....
bookworm91691 2 years ago 7
Oh God I haven't watched this since Comic con. Topher is a character I connect so strongly with and seeing him crumble just breaks me. They did an unbelievable job. Epitaph One isn't just the best Dollhouse ep in my opinion, it's one of the best hours of television I have ever seen.
lildeadgirl1443 2 years ago 3
fantastic scene
VinceRocksMySocks 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
God help us.
Fendertastic 2 years ago
This is, without a doubt, the most phenomenal piece of philosophical content this show produced. Topher himself asks quite directly; is it better to pick up the phone, or not? He can't answer it. He's afraid to answer it, because in answering, he picks a side.
Can any of you? ;)
SamusX10 2 years ago 6
I agree fully! I don't think anyone could choose! It's such an remarkably frightening idea! They are both so great in this scene!
SerenityAlbatross 2 years ago
What this really highlights is our ability to develop technology, and our inability to defend against it. He's done something truly brilliant, but the brilliance surpassed his ability to rationalize and keep it controlled.
"If I think I can make things work, is that curiosity or arrogance?", culminating with "I know what I know" over and over again... we have a brilliant man struggling to assert himself.
Socrates said "The only thing I know is that I know nothing". So what does this tell us?
SamusX10 2 years ago 5
My favourite scene in the episode, or even in all the episodes. It kills me every time I see it. The acting is just phenomenal.
Hey, I was wondering where you got this episode from? I've been looking for somewhere to download it but I can't find anywhere.
Thanks,
DWD
DoctorWhoDevourer 2 years ago 7
It's only on the season 1 DVD set.
phoenixrage1 2 years ago
This scene was amazing. It's become the inspiration to one of my fanfics!
GrabMySanity 2 years ago 2
i love dollhouse and the way fran kranz acted in that scene was amazing great actor i have watched this scene like 5 times now cant wait for the new series to come out xoxoxoxoxoxo
xxxKiKiCoOkiExxx 2 years ago 2
Yep, really sad scene. I love how Joss Whedon can play with people's feeling that much. LOL ^^; Brilliant scene.
teddiesage 2 years ago
This was a fantastic scene in a fantastic episode. I was really impressed with Fran Kranz's acting, what with this and the scene with Victor/ Mr. Ambrose.
iloveravenrock 2 years ago 4
One of the best scenes I've ever watched....I'm still a little stunned....
bearsky2 2 years ago 6
I spent this scene with my mouth wide open. The acting in this scene made my eyes brim with tears. Topher is my favourite character and to see him even more childlike than before is just heartbreaking. This was wonderfully done; one of the best scenes in the episode and that's not easy.
Lhappylstalker7 2 years ago 11
Thanks for this, it's an awesome scene... Do you have the Dominic/Adelle scene?
amzzzziohi 2 years ago 2
aw, so sad.
this episode was fantastic! it should have aired everywhere, it's better than the rest of the season!! Poor poor topher
mychematthedisco 2 years ago 2
this unaired episode is what saved the show, people are asking so many questions about it that the network had no other choice but to keep it
bolsifo 2 years ago 4
This scene is so beutiful and sad. Adelle and Topher have this mother/son thing going that can also be interpreted as lovers.
"If I think figure things out is that curiosity or is that arrogance?" Topher to a T and a beutiful line.
TY for putting this up.
shinycrazy 2 years ago 3
"I know what I know I know what I know I know what I know..."
this is my fav scene of this episode
FJP1213 2 years ago 3
Ditto I watched this scene over and over.
shinycrazy 2 years ago
oh man tihsm ade me cry. I love Topher, e is my favourtie. I always kinda thought him and Dewitt would be a cute couple. Ever since that episode were they toke that drug.
AngelsDemonsLover33 2 years ago
Mann...Great actor. Love the show!!!!!!!!!! "If i think i can figure things out is that curiosity or arrogence?"
monkychief 2 years ago 3
"If I think figure things out is that curiosity or is that arrogance?"
When I watched this episode at Comic-Con that line hit so hard. That IS Topher. I've always loved him as a character (even though he's a creep) but for the longest time I couldn't really figure him out.
I'm really looking forward to S2 now!
thericketandoo 2 years ago 6
"Why didn't I think of that?... Did I think of that?" I love love love Adelle and Topher. They had such great chemistry in "echoes" when they're both tripping. The two of them listening to Boyd play the piano and this bit from Epitaph One are far and away my favorite scenes in season one.
copaceticetal 2 years ago 4
what episdoe did they listen to Boyd? I love topher and Adelle and would love to see that scene.
AngelsDemonsLover33 2 years ago
In the episode Echoes Adelle and Topher become affected by the psychedelic drug and start acting like they're stoned. He takes his pants off, she's jumping on a trampoline and eating snackfood. When they bot call Boyd for an update they find out he's been drugged as well when he starts playing the piano for them over the speaker phone. Their acting in that scene is hilarious and fun. It cemented in my mind that these two are amazing just playig of each other in a room. Much like this.
copaceticetal 2 years ago 4
oh yes I love that peisode, I love how they listen to thep iano. But yeah i love them when they'reo n the drug hehe!
AngelsDemonsLover33 2 years ago
Touching on almost too many different levels at once... DeWitt seems to be one of the only ones left who cares about Topher at all, the poor guy, even if it's just a maternal protection, as she's at least still in charge of keeping everyone safe. He went from "kid in the candy shop" to "kid locked in the basement" sometime between the shown events... and it shattered him so completely T_T.
browncoatkevin 2 years ago 6
Just like in the scene in the kitchen when "Victor" is talking about Rossomes plans and he tells Topher hes on the top of the list "to live forever" Topher is sooo quite in that scene it's creepy.
shinycrazy 2 years ago 4
Yeah... normally Topher speaks his mind as he pleases, but I don't think he even had a line of dialogue in the kitchen - Clive Ambrose in Victor's body, talking so casually about abusing the technology in ways he -and- DeWitt were already against? I wouldn't be surprised if, when that happens in its proper time, Topher starts doubting Rossum's intentions or his own worth, and the metaphorical camel's back starts being piled high with straws.
browncoatkevin 2 years ago 2
I love how this episode turned out
Selana 2 years ago 2
Poor, poor Topher! Could you please upload all the parts of this episode with Claire/Whiskey?
sunnytyler001 2 years ago 2
This scene just reminds you of how good Joss Whedon is at breaking hearts. Amazing, amazing scene!
thinkingtara 2 years ago 9
This is the reason I watch Whedon's series...this episode and Briar Rose are two of my favorites. This show picked up so well with eps 6!!!
a1sd2fgh3 2 years ago 2
Topher is explaining how the world ended, he doesn't remember it. He probably did think about it, which is probably why Dewitt looks so sad
override367 2 years ago 4
Can someone explain this episode to me, please and thank you ?
Sh0rtStUfF815 2 years ago
Pretty much the episode takes place in the future and we find out that the boss of the dollhouse used the phones to make people into killers who are not turned into dolls. So pretty much everyone is trying to survive or go to this place called "Safe Haven" and Dr Sauder stayed back to help strangers that happen to find this dollhouse and imprint one of the people with Echo's imprint because Echo knows the way to Safe Haven.
scn3 2 years ago
Actually it is hinted that she stayed there waiting for Boyd, which makes it even more sadder than it already is. T_T
asbeom 2 years ago 4
Omg...that is so sad, now it's so much sadder when I watch the ending scene when she releases the poison.
scn3 2 years ago 6
I knew it! I was thinking the same thing. And that made me even sadder. She's just waiting for him and leaning on that bar...oh gosh. It really gets to a person.
And Topher...well that scene was sad and whoa for me because of the delivery of it all. I never would have expected it. Adelle and Topher have great chemistry. It's saddening.
naleyluver 2 years ago 3
thanks !
Sh0rtStUfF815 2 years ago
It sends a shiver through my bones every time I watch it. He IS my favourite character.
IxadminxI 2 years ago
:-( Massively depressing, and well done.
Topher is also one of my favorite characters.
ShimmeryCricket 2 years ago 4
Thank you for posting this :) Now I dont have to search through the episode for this scene. Its absolutely one of my favorites of the episode.
Poor Topher. :( He's definitely one of my favorite characters.
DierdreWolf 2 years ago 2