I keep seeing comments saying that Lemieux was better than Gretzky because he had a worse supporting cast. Lame reason. How about this one? Gretzky ppg 1.92 and Lemieux 1.88 ppg. Even though Gretzky's is better that's a miniscule difference. The reason Lemieux is greater lies in his ability to grind at 6'4 235. Gretzky has nothing on Lemieux as a forechecker or defensive forward. Combine that with Lemieux's incredible offensive production and Lemieux wins hands down
I agree Lemieux was the most offensively talented in the history of the game, with others like Gretzky and Orr a close 2nd. Even Gretzky and Orr have said in the past they couldn't touch Lemieux's raw talent. Early in his career he lacked a strong supporting cast like Gretzky. As an individual Mario dominated like no other and when he was on the ice there was always an anticipation something would happen.
its funny to watch people argue so much because some random dude claims that lemieux is better than gretzky. wtf does it matter anyways? look at what they did? just shut it and enjoy them for what they were.
Stupidest arguments i've ever seen for putting Mario or Gretzky. Wayne has over 50 NHL records there is no way he's second best, gretzkys the greatest of all time.
lemieux retired post lockout, and between when he came back from his first retirement to his second (and final), lemeiux had one of the highest pt per game averages in the league.. in fact, some years he had the highest. unfortunately this was after a 3 years hiatus and at the end of his career so he wasnt playing at his best, nor was he playing complete seasons. basically my point is that if 66 was able to do that, then he could definitely contend now. ur a fucking joke
@cmacpella That's great kid, get off his dick. Gretzky will always be better...
I still don't understand your logic...these past few years alone are incredibly different from 5-10 years ago.
The Rangers/Isles/Pens have what, 2-5 players at most on each team still from 5 years ago? Younger is the more dominant in today's league. Gretzky and Lemieux would be possible AHL players.
only 2-5 players from 5 years ago? WTF? u think the league is made up of only 18-23 year olds or something??.. crosby was drafted 6 years ago, and mark stall well over 7-8 yrs ago, 5 YRS MY ASS. jagr recently played on the rangers and was still DOMINANT.. u know wat tho, ur statement is so retarded i absolutely refuse to engage u in an argument.. younger is more dominant? righttttttttt, best players in the league peak at 30 u dumb fuck.. U KNO NOTHING
@cmacpella Yeah, they wouldn't be considered fast in todays NHL and they'd actually get hit a lot more often. The league isn't just made up of 18-23 year olds, but honestly, half the players who are in the NHL at this moment are in that age range.
What does Jagr have to do with having the same players from 5-10 years ago, you ask? He's not on the team anymore...and he was on it 5-10 years ago...lmao.
peak at 30? LMFAO, If Crosby and Ovechkin haven't peaked yet were in for the best player ever.
jagr played for rangers jus a few yrs ago, i think he retired in 08. he was drafted 90. he was an example of a old style player like 66, not as talented tho, ripping up the league old, post lock out. try and keep up with me here bro. and yes we in for the best players we've ever seen, 87s 24 now and was on pace for 150 pt season, something the league hasnt seen in a fuckin decade. n e ways, u make no valid points, and the league doesn't mainly comprise of 18-23 yr olds. fuck off
The only reason Lemieux's stats/game are better than Gretzky's is because he didn't last as long Gretzky was way better than any other player, including Lemieux. I'll give Lemieux credit though, he was a really good player even though he was fat. Imagine if he hit the weight room like today's players.
In terms of pure talent lemieux WAS better than gretzky. Gretzky himself even admitted it in his biography. However Gretzky was a better player because he had less talent but was a harder worker and gave it his all every night and had better leadership which helped his team win more games. Although i do think if Mario had less health problems (he was a heavy smoker and drinker while in his prime) he would have shattered Gretzkys records
Lemieux was an absolutely outstanding players and undoubtedly one of the best of all time but come on, the best forward to ever play the game? That is absurd. Gretzky, Richard, and Howe are easily in a higher class than him. I mean absolutely no disrespect to Mario but this is just insane.
Well Hello All, I have been watching hockey for some 40 years and have seen the best of the best. Without question the best hockey player to have ever played in the N.H.L. was Wayne Gretzky and his 60 plus records speak for themselves!!! Need I say more! Steve as a guest of the user!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You gave Lemieux #1 mainly because he was diagnosed with Cancer, you guys lost all your credibility right fucking there. It was a pity vote, come on, he was good, its unfortunate that his career was cut short, but better than 99? NO. He played in the same high scoring era but never put up the points because that 99 did because he wasn't good enough to make everyone else around him better. Gretzky was the teammate to get other players out of slumps, he could find the open man better than anyone.
@creburke cont. Gretz made the game cool in the US and he changed the way the game was played by using the ice behind the net and thinking 2 or 3 moves ahead. Lemieux is in the top 10, maybe 5 but he is not 1. Gretz was a generational player and 66 was an Allstar. Top 5: 5)Bossy 4)Bret Hull 3)Mark Messier 2)Howe and
Mario was unbelievable. Look up Rob Brown. He played one year on Mario's line and scored 49 goals. He got moved off the line and was out of the league in 3 years. Mario and Wayne were both pure magic. Guys like Howe and Messier were amazing rugged players who always got the job done, but guys like Mario and Wayne were in a class by themselves. Seeing them just blew your mind. Thanks for the memories!
i am in my 30s, and although gretzky was good, I personally feel thay MARIO was the best player ever, he was so damn smooth on the ice and fun to watch.
You could not find a better forward. I've heard a sportcaster say "Some players may beat you, but Mario Lemieux will embarasse you". And that is why he is my favorite player of all time. Not to mention the best goals per game average and best points per game average. He is twice the player Gretz was. Imagine if the NHL protected Mario like they did Gretz. He wouldn't have the health problems he did and would have beat a lot of Gretz's records. Lemieux is THE BEST offensive player of all time!
The main denominator for me is the importance of player. When Gretz left the Oilers, the team was still a stanley cup contender and actually won the cup again in 1990. When Lemieux was forced to retire early, the Penguins, even with Jagr playing amazing hockey, were just never the same again.
When Lemieux retired for good after he and the Penguins missed the playoffs 4 years in a row, they went to the finals and won the cup the year after. Also the Penguins never missed the playoffs during Mario's retirement. Mario only brought the Pens once into the playoffs his first 6 years while Gretzky brought the expansion Oilers right away. The Hart trophy is the ultimate testament to the importance of a player, Mario won 3, Gretzky won 9...
@Irato99 I think you might be forgetting the fact that when lemieux had come back from retirement, the penguins were in a stage of being sellers. They had blown up their team in order to rebuild.
It's true they had blown up the team, it all started in 96-97 when they gave a 11+ millions contract to Lemieux (more than 2nd and 3rd highest combined!). Two years later Lemieux (now retired), sued the Penguins because they still couldn't pay him.
@Irato99 lemieux didnt "sue" the leafs he offered to convert the salary owed to him into equity. After doing so he became part of the ownership group.. Saving the organization once again. The penguins had owed money to all players not just lemieux and it was lemieux who stepped up and forfeited his salary for ownership of the team even though he endured losses for years to follow
Mario did sue co-owner Roger Marino on May 15, '98, and then the team filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 13 of the same year. Mario, who was still waiting on a total of $28.7 million, decided that the best way to recoup his money was to gain ownership of the team. He spent the 98-99 season trying to put together an investment group that would enable him to pay off all other creditors, and gain majority ownership of the team so he could keep it in Pittsburgh. He saved the team and his $.
Gretzky would not have put up the numbers he did if he had a herniated disk in 1984 and then cancer in 1986 at the same ages Lemieux was. Neither would any other player.
Gretz put up the seasons he did because He WAS INSANE GOOD, he STAYED HEALTHY, AND THE OILERS OF THE 1980'S WERE LOADED! Gretz, Messier, Coffee Kurri, Anderson, Fuhr......no team since has had that amount of hall of fame talent on it. NONE!
They were SO loaded they won a cup two years after Wayne was traded.
sorry Lemieux was one of my favourite players ever and along with Gretzky and Orr in my mind the most dominating guys on the ice. However, your reasonings for ranking him above Gretzky are illogical. Gretzky was the best forward of all time hands down. Lemieux incredibly gifted who could have been the best but has to settle for an impressive second nonetheless....
@robertchflynn I agree with you. If you want the best all round forward it was Gretzky, someone who could not only score goals but set up goals. Lemieux was a great goal scorer but he didn't even come close to Gretzky in being able to make assists
Mario's got enough stats to back him up, but no other player in NHL history has anywhere near the highlight reel he built over his career. He was jaw-dropping in an era when goal-scoring was plummeting. He was a huge player with brilliant hockey sense and the agility of a man 8 inches shorter. He was a PK master and had the ability to disappear on the power play. His shot was a laser and he was a 1-on-1 nightmare for defensemen and goalies. It's hard to argue against Lemieux objectively...
Mario is a "what if"player.Gretzky was voted #1 all time by the Hockey News.That panel included experts from Gm's to coaches in the NHL.Mario was 4th.This guys a retard.You can argue forever who had more talent,but what sets these 2 apart is,consistancy, longevity and Gretzkys incredible records and numbers.ARGUMENT OVER!
@jimmofosty I did'nt say anything about his cancer did I shithead?All I stated was the fact that Gretzky played a full career and Mario did'nt.Im not faulting him for being injured or sick,I was just stating the facts.How can he be rated higher?Numbers don't lie on who's better.Maybe if Mario could have stayed healthy,he could have beat some of Wayne's records.BUT HE DID'NT!!!!!!!
"but what sets these 2 apart is,consistancy, longevity" and don't argue now that if Mario stayed healthy he could have beat some of Wayne's records because I know what you originally meant. You're accusing Mario of not staying healthy, am I right? That's what you meant by longevity, right? Watch how you say things prick.
@jimmofosty Dude are you fucking retarded?I like Mario,but cant stand stupidity.I guess I must of really hurt your feelings hey?I stated the facts.If you dont like it,go cry somewhere else.
@canadeth73 haha so now you're saying you should be insensitive to the fact that the dude had cancer? its not a matter of how I feel about it, it's a matter of your non existant empathy that's the joke.
Mario Lemieux was a train (for proof copy paste it in search) and even though Gretzky clearly had the better career, Lemieux was more dominant than him when healthy on the ice.
Lemieux wasn't surrounded by really good players? So Jagr, Recchi, Coffey, Francis, Mullen, Murphy, Trottier who all had Hall of Fame careers are not that good...
@Irato99 jagr came in 1989 or 1990... when Lemieux was draft in Pittsburg in 1984 did you know how terrible teammates he had... recchi came in 1989, Coffey came in 1987, Francis in 1990, Murphy came also in the 1990, and so trottier... Do I have to remain you How Good players was the oilers edmonton from 1982- to 1989 ??? From the beegining of the team in 1979 they were in the top in league... pittsburg didnt have a good team
You really think the Oilers were in the top from the beginning? Come on, they finished 16th and 13th out of 21 teams the first two years, with a losing record, may I remind you that they were an expansion team.
When Mario came into the league, his team was bad, but he did not just have terrible teammates, Bullard and Babych were 50 goals scorers.
@666capou666 Gretzky was only surrounded by good players in Edmonton and the proof of it is that he scored 200 pts 4x in Edmonton, never more than 168 after the trade to LA and he was 27 during the trade so he was still in his best years (168 is still more than anyone else other than Mario mind you). Lemieux however, had Coffey for several years, Jagr also and Francis and Tocchet for a few, no hockey player has ever been great without a bit of help, not even Mario or Wayne.
@666capou666 That's what everyone says. OMG HE'S NOT THAT GOOD BECAUSE OF THIS OR THAT.
I could say Gretzky wasn't the ultimate because the pads were small as fuck back then, but the truth? He's amazing. Listen to this guys reason beforehand and skmtuaes comment.
@666capou666 yeah dude, mario didnt have JAGR, RON FRANCIS, LARRY MURPHY, PAUL COFFEY, MARK RECCHI, KEVIN STEVENS, RICK TOCCHET, ALEXI KOVALEV, SERGEI ZUBOV, BRYAN TROTTIER, MARTY STRAKA, SYDNEY CROSBY.... oh wait, he did.... mario was surrounded by great players most of his career. who did gretzky have in LA? bernie nicholls? give me a break
I'd put Lemieux no.1 as well. Gretzky played 1487 games, while Lemieux played only 915 games. Gretzky scored 0,6 goals per game in his career. Lemieux scored 0,75 goals per game in his career and only 200 goals behind Greatzky but in almost 600 games less! If you add that 0,75 goals per game in 600 missing games, that is another 450 goals wich would make it 1140 goals in his career. Sure scoring goes down when aging, but Lemieux would most likely have beaten Gretzky in the same number of games.
I'd put Lemieux no.1 as well. Gretzky played 1487 games, while Lemieux played only 915 games. Gretzky scored 0,6 goals per game in his career. Lemieux scored 0,75 goals per game in his career and only 200 goals behind Greatzky but in almost 600 games less! If you add that 0,75 goals per game in 600 missing games, that is another 450 goals wich would make it 1140 goals in his career. Sure scoring goes down when aging, but Lemieux would most likely have beaten Gretzky in the same number of games.
I'd put Lemieux no.1 as well. Gretzky played 1487 games, while Lemieux played only 915 games. Gretzky scored 0,6 goals per game in his career. Lemieux scored 0,75 goals per game in his career and only 200 goals behind Greatzky but in almost 600 games less! If you add that 0,75 goals per game in 600 missing games, that is another 450 goals wich would make it 1140 goals in his career. Sure scoring goes down when aging, but Lemieux would most likely have beaten Gretzky in the same number of games.
This guy's an idiot. Some of his reasons for ranking Lemieux #1: He scored a goal on his first shift. He came back after being treated for cancer. He won the Calder Trophy. He once had an 8 point game. How about focusing on an entire career, where Gretzky has records that will never be touched.
I agree with you, these points are not exceptional. A goal on his 1st shift, Malkin scored in his 1st six games, that's better. Came back from cancer, just like Koivu, Kessel, Blake, Cullen. A 8 pts game, Sittler had 10. He won the Calder, so did a bunch of players.
But who else scored 215 pts, 92 goals, 163 assists, 2000 career pts, 50 goals in 39 gms, and on and on...
@Irato99 how many scoring titles did koivu, kessel, blake and cullen win? which one of them came back to the ice the same day as a chemo session? and scored in that game? and when did wayne ever have to put up with the hacking and slashing that lemieux did? never,never and never!
Mario was awesome! He may not have had the stats that 99 had but the only reason that he doesn't is because of all the diseases he had that caused him so much pain that he couldn't tie his own skates. If he hadn't retired the first time that would have added 3 more years in his career to dominate!
It's not about stats... It's about raw talent. At the peak of his game, no one could match him. The Great One would probably admit himself... But as I mentioned before, who cares today... We were so lucky (hockey fans) to be able to see these two amazing players (99 and 66) in the same time. I miss those days...
@skmtuae How can you say it`s not about stats. You declaring that Lemieux had the most raw power doesn`t justify him being coined `the greatest forward``. Stats are facts. 50 goals in 39 games, the most goals in a season, the most points in a season etc are things that can impress a hockey fan and justify Gretsky being named the best.. Personal opinions or observations are subjective, they mean nothing. Even if Lemieux did have more raw power, he didn`t produce. A forwards job is to get points
@jcs1234jcs his name is spelled Gretzky, if you can't spell his name you haven't watched enough tape. somehow you know how to spell LEMIEUX! Enough said sir
@skrabble66 that's your arguement? a typo? Clearly you have no real arguement, you are simply against my statement. And also, i speak french so i would be more likely to spell Lemieux properly. Now, if you have something to say about my previous comment, say it. If you are going to edit it, you are wasting my time.
@skmtuae It' also about measurable accomplishments. If it was only about talent Kovalev would be in the top three. Mario's accoplishments do not even come close to Gretzky's.
correct me if im wrong lol is this guy saying lemieux is better than gretzky ahahah no disrespect for Mario.....hes awesome but get real u dinkkkkkk Gretzky IS HOCKEY! and hockey IS canada's game lol Gretzky is the legend.....the best in hockey history and so far no one has statistically proved that wrong the narrator in here is a goof
Then how do you explain that the season he did 50 in 39, Gretzky finished 28 goals ahead of the 2nd best, the great Mike Bossy. Gretzky got 92 goals when only two other players could reach 60, and I'm not talking about points, a 65 pts lead that year.
Mario Lemiuex is not the greatest, sure you have to be talented to be the best. But you have to also be able to resist injuries. Mario could not do that, even if it was cancer, no excuses.
It is a well known fact that Lemieux played with severe back pain, especially in the early 90s. Injuries aren't suprising considering the amount of abuse he received due to his lack of protection by goons.
Don't believe me? Look at most of his well known goals. He is hacked, hooked, and nearly sliced up in most of them yet he still scores.
The man played with crippling pain (couldn't lace his own skates due to it) and still topped the league in points or close to it. That is greatness.
@EvansthemanOHISAIDIT that is stupid. So the players that had more points than him were better? Thats like saying Gale Sayers sucked. Points dont tell the story. emieux would have scored 250 points if he played with the early 80's Oilers
Mario scored in the first game on the first shift on the first shot of his nhl career. It doesnt say that he scored on the first shot in the video, but look it up. It's true. He was truly the greatest forward of all time sorry Gretz...
Mario may have scored on his first shift, but he scored his second goal on the 9th game, and the third goal on game no.14, so there's nothing to brag about here (Malkin scored in his first 6 games, that's far more impressive).
And, by the way, it took three years for Mario to reach the 50 goals plateau. Gretzky, in his third year, reached the 90 goals plateau... Sorry Mario.
I think that Lemieux was just the better forward. I kinow Wayne Gretzky had the most points in one season and goals, but that was all in his great positioning. Lemieux was almost the same way, but he made the plays more, which is why I think he was the better forward, and after having a greater than 1 point per game average affter having Hodgkins lymphoma, that's just plain amazing.
@Irato99 Gretz had already played professional hockey and when he came into the league, he came to a contender with the likes of Coffey, Mess, Kurri, Anderson etc. Lemieux came to the worst team in the league. Gretz even said Lemieux was better...look it up
When Gretzky came to the league (with an EXPANSION team), he won the Hart and tied for scoring lead, none of the players you mentioned except Mess were in the team (he got 33 pts).
I do stand corrected on the players, but Gretzky was in his 3rd professional season. and No they werent expansion, they came from the WHA. Where the Oilers lost in the Championship. He didnt go to a team that was 16-58. When Gretz had 200 points, all those Hof"s were on the team
Gretzky was in his 2nd professional season, not 3rd (and he was 18 on his NHL debut).
The Oilers were an expansion team, do you need a definition of this word?
When Gretzky had his first 200+ pts season, he was 107 pts ahead of his best teammate. The fact that this teammate is in the HoF or not is pretty irrelevant on that case. Actually, it just puts Gretzky on a God-like level to see him dominating a team full of HoFers.
The fact that Lemieux had 199 points on a team of chumps is more impressive. The Oilers moved leagues, they werent a first year org. They came with a bunch of good players not a bunch of league outcasts like the Sharks or Sens had to do. Having teammates that are HoF's is irrellevant? How is that? this is a team game. Gretz doesnt score 200 pts by himself. Pts per game Lem 1.88, Gretz 1.92, Pretty even in my eyes. You really have no arguement. When Gretz scored his 1st 50 there were 9 50 goal
scorers. When Lemieux did it there was only 5. Scoring was up when Gretz got his. They both had 43 goals their rookie seasons, but Lemieux did it in a better league so by your rational Lemieux is better. They were both amazing players but if you watch video Lemieux was a better overall player. Gretz little stop and slap shot over the glove wouldnt work anymore. BTW the leaguge expanded by merging not by creating new franchises. Do you need me to explain the diff?
Gretzky had 51 goals on his rookie season. When he scored 200 pts, he was alone, the pts difference explains it all. Gretzky didn't have NHL 50 goals scorers to play with when he came in the league, Mario had 2. Honestly, which good players were with the Oilers when they came in the league?
Lemieux had 2 50 goal scorers when he came in the league? Who were they? Come on. Why didnt Gretzky win rookie of the year? Cuz he wasnt a rookie. Do you need me to define rookie? Gretz was alone when he scored 200? no he wasnt. the top 5 scorers on the team were HoF's and then there was Kevin Lowe and Grant Fuhr. But having those 2 prob doesnt help the offense, right?
Mike Bullard and Wayne Babych were 50 goals scorers. I could have said Rick Kehoe too but it's unfair because he retired on Mario's 1st season.
When Gretzky scored 200+ the 1st time, he has more goals than any of his teammates had pts, except Anderson who had 105 pts. That's Anderson most productive season ever, yet it's not even half of Gretzky production that year, he was alone.
@Irato99 did gretz have cancer, did gretz get hacked and held and cheap shotted all the time. Did Lemieux play with a team of Hall of Famers. Lemieux scored 85 goals and 199 points with garbage players
Having cancer is not something you can or cannot do.
Gretzky got hacked and held and cheap shotted too, he played in the same league, but he was a lot brighter than Mario and could avoid coverage.
Mario played with Francis, Cullen, Murphy, Trottier, Coffey, all HoFers, and I'm not counting Jagr and Recchi.
Lemieux got 199 pts with one of the greatest d-man of all time and the current holder of pts and assists records in the WHL, really not garbage players.
Wasn't Lemieux a little gawky looking on the ice . Maybe it was his size.. probably was.! I never found him, graceful and he never looked like he was born to the manor like an Orr or a Bobby Hull . I don't deny what he did on the ice but somehow I can't fathom the fanaticism of those that swear by him. I always felt part of of any legend was how you looked doing it. I think Gretzky more talented than Mario but I prefer Hull and Orr over Wayne! So now you know how old school I am!
I knew a player from the US 1980 Olympic team and he had been a talented hockey player since he was 8 I remember running into him at a pub and he heaped praises on Gretzky's talent as many did who knew the game. Just a story I tell ..Remember Guy LeFleur and the other Montrealer [before him? ] who were highly praised as teens Can't remember his name He was Canadian.. Can anyone help??
in my opinion top 10 nhl forwards 1. Mario Lemiuex 2. Wayne Gretzky 3. Gordie Howe 4. Maurice richard 5. Bobby Hull 6. Mike Bossy 7. Phil Esposito 8. Jari Kurri 9. Brett Hull 10. Mark Messier
And i forgot to mention. Look at who won Vezina trophies in Gretzky's era and notice their GAA. It was in the 3's. Those numbers today even with the new rules gets you a seat..... on your couch at home never to play again.
Lemieux's skills transcended all eras and play styles
Another Lemieux fan with wrong statistics (they're everywhere!). All Vezina trophy winners the 5 years Gretzky played before Lemieux have GAA under 3.00, nice try...
And Lemieux would never have had 199 pts without Rob Brown.
you dont know shit about hockey man! you jackass!! rob brown had 2 good years in his carrer and you say that lemiux would never have had 199 pts without him? what r u on pot? hahahah
Well, Rob Brown had two good years, one of them is when he helped Lemieux get 199 pts. Mario never got close to this without Brown (who wasn't a dummy at all, dominating in the juniors with a 200+ pts season).
yeah your right rob brown is ok, but i still think lemieux is a good player without him and hes still one of my favourite players but i'll admit that gretzky was better than him.
Gretzky is the greatest ever and lemieux isnt in the top 3. Lemieux is one of the greatest individual players but Gretzky made everyone around him a superstar status player. Gretzky vs Orr vs Richard. Gretzky = Most points 2857, Orr = plus/minus of +124 in one season and Richard was alot alike Lemieux about 70 years ago. First to score 50 in 50. #4 is a toss up between Lemieux and Howe
Lemeiux is the best. Gretzky had too much talent around him. The oilers won a stanley cup without him and he never won it again. If you take Lemieux out of the pens they could never won the cup. Even S. Bowman said that he would take Mario over anybody if their was a open draft with every all of fame player. Le magnifique baby!!! all the way
The Pens won the cup without Mario, your memeory is very short. Actually, the Pens finally made the playoffs for the fisrt time in 5 years when Mario retired for good.
Lemieux had as much talent around as Gretzky, but it's 99 who got all the records...
This obviously doesn't apply to all the single season records Gretzky has (and not Mario). And to retire at 31 like Mario did doesn't show that you want to be the best ever...
OMG Shea you truly are retarded. Gretzky played with Mark Messier and Jari Kurri and had Paul Coffey on defense. Lemieux played with ROB BROWN and Brown made him a 49 goal scorer. Brown is a career minor leaguer while Kurri, Coffey and Messier were never doubted as great players even without Gretzky. Does that debunk your horse's ass statement about making others better?... Yes it does
People like you should be euthanized for stupid comments like Lemieux shouldn't be in the top 3
i cant believe what im hearin...mario lemieux is my favorite player of all time and if he was healthy i think he could have beaten gretzky's goal record but gretzky dominated hockey in EVERY offensive category to the point if he never scored a goal in his CAREER he would still have more points than ANYBODY..gretzky dominated hockey more than anyone has domianted ANY sport
I still son't understand why some people put Mario in front of Gretzky. I mean, everything Mario did, Wayne did it better or faster. He should be no.1 easily...
Wayne had an army with him, he wasn't sick and chalked up tonnes of assits by bouncing pucks off Semenko's ass...Look at today....Gretzky can't coach and Mario is still building Stanley Cup teams....no comparison.
Another stupid comment, Semenko has 65 career goals and Gretzky has 1963 career assists, nice try idiot.
And please, post-career isn't the subject here, but according to the fact that the Penguins have two 1st overall picks and two 2nd overall picks in their team, I assume that Lemieux's strategy to build a winning team is to suck so bad for a long time to get all the best picks (the team missed the playoffs 4 of the 5 years Mario played in the 2000's, good loser job Mario...)
"failed to be the best ever"might be the most moronic statement i've ever read,opinions aside Mario Lemieux achieved ever personal and team GOAL one can strive to be,least he never got fired?get a life,idiot
If you want to compare the scoring of two or more forwards, you've got to compare average goals per game during a season divided by average goals per game for every forward in the league that season. You'll find that Richard was number one, Howe was number two, and the rest trailed behind. As far as all around, Howe's the only one that was great at everything. He was the first and best true power forward.
Mario lemieux cest le meilleur en sall ya juste jouer avec 2 bonne personnes en carriere pi (grezky ya jouer avec plein de super vedette) comme Brett hull,Luc robitaille,Jari Kurri,Paul Coffey et Marc Messier... McDermott2012 you right.
le 99 a jouez pas mal plus de match que le 66,Lemieux a commencer avec rien chez les pinguins allez jusqua sont deuxieme retourne chez les pinguoins il etais dans le livre des records pour la meilleur moyenne de point par match pour les ceux qui dise a oui mais il etais avec Jagr cest faux regarder jagr quand il a quiter les pinguoins il a rien fait pourquoi parceque il avait le meilleur joueur du monde avec lui,
Un autre commentaire ridicule. Jagr a gagné 4 de ses 5 Art Ross sans Lemieux, et il a eu une saison de 123 pts avec les Rangers, à 2 pts du sommet. De plus, Mario n'est plus le détenteur du record pour les pts/matchs, c'est Gretzky, donc ça sert à rien d'amener ça sur le sujet. Finalement, Gretzky à joué beaucoup plus de matchs que Lemieux et c'est tout à son avantage, l'endurance c'est une qualité et Mario ne l'avait pas.
look at the teams they played on. Gretzky played with SO MANY hall of famers. i.e. Messier, Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, and Jari Kurri, then Luc Robitaille in LA, later Brett Hull on St. Louis, and then Rejoining Messier in NY. The only Superstar Lemieux ever played with were Jagr and Ron Francis
It's quite funny that you say that Gretzky played with Paul Coffey but you forget to mention that he also played with Lemieux. And you also forget that Lemieux played with as many Hall of Famers as Gretzky (and be serious, Wayne only played 18 games with Hull...). Do some research before posting stupids comments.
Coffey,Fuhr,Messier,Kurri HOFers the Great one played with most of his career in Edmonton,name the 4 HOFers Mario played with???His linemates his rookie year were Warren Young and Rob Brown,one more thing #66 played with that Gretzky didnt CANCER,enough research MORON????
Lemieux played with Coffey, Francis, Mullen, Murphy, Trottier, all HOFers, and you could add Jagr and Recchi who soon will be (that's 7 players MORON).
And please, Rob Brown wasn't even close to the NHL on Lemieux rookie year, he was on the first of 3 years in the WHL with the Blazers in which he scored 464 pts on 192 games (it's obvious he later helped Mario get his best year ever...).
And one more thing #66 played with that Gretzky didn't have, 6 ft 4.5 in, 235 lb. MORON...
Rob Brown,Bob Errey,Warren Young,same difference,hardly Kurri,Anderson,Messier,Coffey and Fuhr,Mario and Wayne both played with jagr and Coffey so cancel those 2 out,how about all the other guys #99 played with,Leetch,Hull,Robitaille,Nichols,Graves, Coffey was interviewed after Mario retired the first time and he said"Bar none he's definitely the most talented i've played with!"
My bad on the Jagr addition,he scored the OT GW in Gretzky's final game and Francis and mario played a little over 5 full seasons together,bottom line is no way did #66 play with talent around him over a career that #99 did,and considering what Lemieux had to overcome(ESPN rates him the toughest player ever)forget that heart and desire comparsion
this guy can not say 6, listen closely -.-
singingsensationsad 1 month ago
I keep seeing comments saying that Lemieux was better than Gretzky because he had a worse supporting cast. Lame reason. How about this one? Gretzky ppg 1.92 and Lemieux 1.88 ppg. Even though Gretzky's is better that's a miniscule difference. The reason Lemieux is greater lies in his ability to grind at 6'4 235. Gretzky has nothing on Lemieux as a forechecker or defensive forward. Combine that with Lemieux's incredible offensive production and Lemieux wins hands down
rockgod57 3 months ago
"sitstysits" -.-
Dahmac 3 months ago
I agree Lemieux was the most offensively talented in the history of the game, with others like Gretzky and Orr a close 2nd. Even Gretzky and Orr have said in the past they couldn't touch Lemieux's raw talent. Early in his career he lacked a strong supporting cast like Gretzky. As an individual Mario dominated like no other and when he was on the ice there was always an anticipation something would happen.
encompasser 4 months ago
What about yzerman
swissy35 5 months ago
Gretzky or lemieux? who gives a shit they are both Canadian !!!!
GUIINT 6 months ago
Lemieux is the best in my opinion.
1bls 8 months ago 2
its funny to watch people argue so much because some random dude claims that lemieux is better than gretzky. wtf does it matter anyways? look at what they did? just shut it and enjoy them for what they were.
ovechkin100 9 months ago
Stupidest arguments i've ever seen for putting Mario or Gretzky. Wayne has over 50 NHL records there is no way he's second best, gretzkys the greatest of all time.
BabbarKhalsaZindabad 10 months ago
is it this guy's first time in front of a camera? absolutely awful reading, and terrible writing as well. bush league/
playadominical 10 months ago
Put Gretzky and Lemieux in the league today and they'd be average 4th liners, lmao.
IslandersFan25 11 months ago
@IslandersFan25 Well, on every team but the Islanders. They'd be first line centers there.
killallman 10 months ago
@killallman Very funny. Your humor is just too much, I can't take it.
IslandersFan25 10 months ago
@IslandersFan25
lemieux retired post lockout, and between when he came back from his first retirement to his second (and final), lemeiux had one of the highest pt per game averages in the league.. in fact, some years he had the highest. unfortunately this was after a 3 years hiatus and at the end of his career so he wasnt playing at his best, nor was he playing complete seasons. basically my point is that if 66 was able to do that, then he could definitely contend now. ur a fucking joke
cmacpella 9 months ago
@cmacpella That's great kid, get off his dick. Gretzky will always be better...
I still don't understand your logic...these past few years alone are incredibly different from 5-10 years ago.
The Rangers/Isles/Pens have what, 2-5 players at most on each team still from 5 years ago? Younger is the more dominant in today's league. Gretzky and Lemieux would be possible AHL players.
Wake up, and go watch some hockey.
IslandersFan25 9 months ago
@IslandersFan25
kid? lol
ahl players? lol
only 2-5 players from 5 years ago? WTF? u think the league is made up of only 18-23 year olds or something??.. crosby was drafted 6 years ago, and mark stall well over 7-8 yrs ago, 5 YRS MY ASS. jagr recently played on the rangers and was still DOMINANT.. u know wat tho, ur statement is so retarded i absolutely refuse to engage u in an argument.. younger is more dominant? righttttttttt, best players in the league peak at 30 u dumb fuck.. U KNO NOTHING
cmacpella 9 months ago
@cmacpella oops, i mixed marcs age wit erics.. lol, im stilll right tho
cmacpella 9 months ago
@cmacpella Yeah, they wouldn't be considered fast in todays NHL and they'd actually get hit a lot more often. The league isn't just made up of 18-23 year olds, but honestly, half the players who are in the NHL at this moment are in that age range.
What does Jagr have to do with having the same players from 5-10 years ago, you ask? He's not on the team anymore...and he was on it 5-10 years ago...lmao.
peak at 30? LMFAO, If Crosby and Ovechkin haven't peaked yet were in for the best player ever.
IslandersFan25 9 months ago
@IslandersFan25
jagr played for rangers jus a few yrs ago, i think he retired in 08. he was drafted 90. he was an example of a old style player like 66, not as talented tho, ripping up the league old, post lock out. try and keep up with me here bro. and yes we in for the best players we've ever seen, 87s 24 now and was on pace for 150 pt season, something the league hasnt seen in a fuckin decade. n e ways, u make no valid points, and the league doesn't mainly comprise of 18-23 yr olds. fuck off
cmacpella 9 months ago
Second best player of all time. 1# being Bobby Orr.
11DNA11 11 months ago
No one had a bigger influence on the game than Maurice Richard, And no one played with more passion.
graduator08 11 months ago
The only reason Lemieux's stats/game are better than Gretzky's is because he didn't last as long Gretzky was way better than any other player, including Lemieux. I'll give Lemieux credit though, he was a really good player even though he was fat. Imagine if he hit the weight room like today's players.
KingAdrock99 11 months ago
In terms of pure talent lemieux WAS better than gretzky. Gretzky himself even admitted it in his biography. However Gretzky was a better player because he had less talent but was a harder worker and gave it his all every night and had better leadership which helped his team win more games. Although i do think if Mario had less health problems (he was a heavy smoker and drinker while in his prime) he would have shattered Gretzkys records
fatso2992 11 months ago
Lemieux was an absolutely outstanding players and undoubtedly one of the best of all time but come on, the best forward to ever play the game? That is absurd. Gretzky, Richard, and Howe are easily in a higher class than him. I mean absolutely no disrespect to Mario but this is just insane.
smitdog6767 1 year ago
Well Hello All, I have been watching hockey for some 40 years and have seen the best of the best. Without question the best hockey player to have ever played in the N.H.L. was Wayne Gretzky and his 60 plus records speak for themselves!!! Need I say more! Steve as a guest of the user!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Colekissfan 1 year ago
You gave Lemieux #1 mainly because he was diagnosed with Cancer, you guys lost all your credibility right fucking there. It was a pity vote, come on, he was good, its unfortunate that his career was cut short, but better than 99? NO. He played in the same high scoring era but never put up the points because that 99 did because he wasn't good enough to make everyone else around him better. Gretzky was the teammate to get other players out of slumps, he could find the open man better than anyone.
creburke 1 year ago
@creburke cont. Gretz made the game cool in the US and he changed the way the game was played by using the ice behind the net and thinking 2 or 3 moves ahead. Lemieux is in the top 10, maybe 5 but he is not 1. Gretz was a generational player and 66 was an Allstar. Top 5: 5)Bossy 4)Bret Hull 3)Mark Messier 2)Howe and
1)Gretzky.
creburke 1 year ago
Mario was unbelievable. Look up Rob Brown. He played one year on Mario's line and scored 49 goals. He got moved off the line and was out of the league in 3 years. Mario and Wayne were both pure magic. Guys like Howe and Messier were amazing rugged players who always got the job done, but guys like Mario and Wayne were in a class by themselves. Seeing them just blew your mind. Thanks for the memories!
Beepbeepoutoftheway 11 months ago
"He was the Maradona of Ice Hockey" and "Wayne was the Pelé of Ice Hockey"
What is the diference??? Maradona made everything alone, Pelé was surounded by great players.
Greetings from Argentina !!!
ejaqmusic 1 year ago
@ejaqmusic
Lemieux is the greatest ever, more and more people need to realize this.
theone456 9 months ago
im herein all this stuff bout lemuiex that doenst come close to gretzky's shit
Viperstrike28 1 year ago
Lemiux & Jagr = Legends
sk6er 1 year ago
i am in my 30s, and although gretzky was good, I personally feel thay MARIO was the best player ever, he was so damn smooth on the ice and fun to watch.
MrGaryo78 1 year ago
lucky for him the letter 'x' in Lemieux is silent.
nsakic 1 year ago
Can`t argue with Lemieux being considered the greatest forward of all time.
openedup09 1 year ago
You could not find a better forward. I've heard a sportcaster say "Some players may beat you, but Mario Lemieux will embarasse you". And that is why he is my favorite player of all time. Not to mention the best goals per game average and best points per game average. He is twice the player Gretz was. Imagine if the NHL protected Mario like they did Gretz. He wouldn't have the health problems he did and would have beat a lot of Gretz's records. Lemieux is THE BEST offensive player of all time!
ValleyLad81 1 year ago
The main denominator for me is the importance of player. When Gretz left the Oilers, the team was still a stanley cup contender and actually won the cup again in 1990. When Lemieux was forced to retire early, the Penguins, even with Jagr playing amazing hockey, were just never the same again.
killallman 1 year ago
@killallman
When Lemieux retired for good after he and the Penguins missed the playoffs 4 years in a row, they went to the finals and won the cup the year after. Also the Penguins never missed the playoffs during Mario's retirement. Mario only brought the Pens once into the playoffs his first 6 years while Gretzky brought the expansion Oilers right away. The Hart trophy is the ultimate testament to the importance of a player, Mario won 3, Gretzky won 9...
Irato99 1 year ago
@Irato99 I think you might be forgetting the fact that when lemieux had come back from retirement, the penguins were in a stage of being sellers. They had blown up their team in order to rebuild.
itsshowtime5 1 year ago
@itsshowtime5
It's true they had blown up the team, it all started in 96-97 when they gave a 11+ millions contract to Lemieux (more than 2nd and 3rd highest combined!). Two years later Lemieux (now retired), sued the Penguins because they still couldn't pay him.
Irato99 1 year ago
@Irato99 lemieux didnt "sue" the leafs he offered to convert the salary owed to him into equity. After doing so he became part of the ownership group.. Saving the organization once again. The penguins had owed money to all players not just lemieux and it was lemieux who stepped up and forfeited his salary for ownership of the team even though he endured losses for years to follow
itsshowtime5 1 year ago
@itsshowtime5
Mario did sue co-owner Roger Marino on May 15, '98, and then the team filed for bankruptcy on Oct. 13 of the same year. Mario, who was still waiting on a total of $28.7 million, decided that the best way to recoup his money was to gain ownership of the team. He spent the 98-99 season trying to put together an investment group that would enable him to pay off all other creditors, and gain majority ownership of the team so he could keep it in Pittsburgh. He saved the team and his $.
Irato99 1 year ago
Gretzky would not have put up the numbers he did if he had a herniated disk in 1984 and then cancer in 1986 at the same ages Lemieux was. Neither would any other player.
Gretz put up the seasons he did because He WAS INSANE GOOD, he STAYED HEALTHY, AND THE OILERS OF THE 1980'S WERE LOADED! Gretz, Messier, Coffee Kurri, Anderson, Fuhr......no team since has had that amount of hall of fame talent on it. NONE!
They were SO loaded they won a cup two years after Wayne was traded.
primetime2411 1 year ago
Good choice for #1, Mario Lemieux truly is the greatest player to play the game.
DeidaraFTW 1 year ago
sorry Lemieux was one of my favourite players ever and along with Gretzky and Orr in my mind the most dominating guys on the ice. However, your reasonings for ranking him above Gretzky are illogical. Gretzky was the best forward of all time hands down. Lemieux incredibly gifted who could have been the best but has to settle for an impressive second nonetheless....
robertchflynn 1 year ago
@robertchflynn I agree with you. If you want the best all round forward it was Gretzky, someone who could not only score goals but set up goals. Lemieux was a great goal scorer but he didn't even come close to Gretzky in being able to make assists
Canuckfan78 1 year ago
Mario's got enough stats to back him up, but no other player in NHL history has anywhere near the highlight reel he built over his career. He was jaw-dropping in an era when goal-scoring was plummeting. He was a huge player with brilliant hockey sense and the agility of a man 8 inches shorter. He was a PK master and had the ability to disappear on the power play. His shot was a laser and he was a 1-on-1 nightmare for defensemen and goalies. It's hard to argue against Lemieux objectively...
hockeyplayer168 1 year ago
Mario is a "what if"player.Gretzky was voted #1 all time by the Hockey News.That panel included experts from Gm's to coaches in the NHL.Mario was 4th.This guys a retard.You can argue forever who had more talent,but what sets these 2 apart is,consistancy, longevity and Gretzkys incredible records and numbers.ARGUMENT OVER!
canadeth73 1 year ago
And so you're saying Lemieux is at fault for having an inconsistent career due to cancer? You're an asshole.
jimmofosty 1 year ago
@jimmofosty I did'nt say anything about his cancer did I shithead?All I stated was the fact that Gretzky played a full career and Mario did'nt.Im not faulting him for being injured or sick,I was just stating the facts.How can he be rated higher?Numbers don't lie on who's better.Maybe if Mario could have stayed healthy,he could have beat some of Wayne's records.BUT HE DID'NT!!!!!!!
canadeth73 1 year ago
"but what sets these 2 apart is,consistancy, longevity" and don't argue now that if Mario stayed healthy he could have beat some of Wayne's records because I know what you originally meant. You're accusing Mario of not staying healthy, am I right? That's what you meant by longevity, right? Watch how you say things prick.
jimmofosty 1 year ago
@jimmofosty Dude are you fucking retarded?I like Mario,but cant stand stupidity.I guess I must of really hurt your feelings hey?I stated the facts.If you dont like it,go cry somewhere else.
canadeth73 1 year ago
@canadeth73 haha so now you're saying you should be insensitive to the fact that the dude had cancer? its not a matter of how I feel about it, it's a matter of your non existant empathy that's the joke.
jimmofosty 1 year ago
@jimmofosty Man,you make no sense to me.Whatever...guess the jokes on me.Ha ha.Later.
canadeth73 1 year ago
@canadeth73 haha its not my fault you don't know what words like insensitive and empathy means. Peace.
jimmofosty 1 year ago
Mario Lemieux was a train (for proof copy paste it in search) and even though Gretzky clearly had the better career, Lemieux was more dominant than him when healthy on the ice.
1. Lemieux 2. Gretzky 3. Howe 4. Hull 5. Béliveau 6. Richard 7. Mikita 8. Lafleur 9. Morenz 10. Esposito
DickMcPenis 1 year ago
The real raeson why LEmieux is the best hockey player cause his wasnt suround by really good player Luke gretzky was
666capou666 1 year ago 5
@666capou666
Lemieux wasn't surrounded by really good players? So Jagr, Recchi, Coffey, Francis, Mullen, Murphy, Trottier who all had Hall of Fame careers are not that good...
Irato99 1 year ago
@Irato99 jagr came in 1989 or 1990... when Lemieux was draft in Pittsburg in 1984 did you know how terrible teammates he had... recchi came in 1989, Coffey came in 1987, Francis in 1990, Murphy came also in the 1990, and so trottier... Do I have to remain you How Good players was the oilers edmonton from 1982- to 1989 ??? From the beegining of the team in 1979 they were in the top in league... pittsburg didnt have a good team
666capou666 1 year ago
@666capou666
You really think the Oilers were in the top from the beginning? Come on, they finished 16th and 13th out of 21 teams the first two years, with a losing record, may I remind you that they were an expansion team.
When Mario came into the league, his team was bad, but he did not just have terrible teammates, Bullard and Babych were 50 goals scorers.
Irato99 1 year ago
@666capou666 Gretzky was only surrounded by good players in Edmonton and the proof of it is that he scored 200 pts 4x in Edmonton, never more than 168 after the trade to LA and he was 27 during the trade so he was still in his best years (168 is still more than anyone else other than Mario mind you). Lemieux however, had Coffey for several years, Jagr also and Francis and Tocchet for a few, no hockey player has ever been great without a bit of help, not even Mario or Wayne.
gymguy25 1 year ago
@666capou666 who the fuck is luke gretzky
fifanut72 1 year ago
@666capou666 That's what everyone says. OMG HE'S NOT THAT GOOD BECAUSE OF THIS OR THAT.
I could say Gretzky wasn't the ultimate because the pads were small as fuck back then, but the truth? He's amazing. Listen to this guys reason beforehand and skmtuaes comment.
omfgkevin 1 year ago
@666capou666 Who's "Luke Gretzky" you dumb fuck? Gretzky was and always will be, the Greatest!!
TheLindsman68 1 year ago
@666capou666 yeah dude, mario didnt have JAGR, RON FRANCIS, LARRY MURPHY, PAUL COFFEY, MARK RECCHI, KEVIN STEVENS, RICK TOCCHET, ALEXI KOVALEV, SERGEI ZUBOV, BRYAN TROTTIER, MARTY STRAKA, SYDNEY CROSBY.... oh wait, he did.... mario was surrounded by great players most of his career. who did gretzky have in LA? bernie nicholls? give me a break
mjb9982 1 week ago
Mario is the best ever.
MrPapergti 1 year ago 2
LOL 0:10 Mike Lange...When did he start to announce NHL games?
gnomjara 1 year ago
fuck u steve yzerman is the best
nhlblogger55 1 year ago
@nhlblogger55 lemieux kicks ass bi-atch.
1jaredmike 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I'd put Lemieux no.1 as well. Gretzky played 1487 games, while Lemieux played only 915 games. Gretzky scored 0,6 goals per game in his career. Lemieux scored 0,75 goals per game in his career and only 200 goals behind Greatzky but in almost 600 games less! If you add that 0,75 goals per game in 600 missing games, that is another 450 goals wich would make it 1140 goals in his career. Sure scoring goes down when aging, but Lemieux would most likely have beaten Gretzky in the same number of games.
djvoldo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I'd put Lemieux no.1 as well. Gretzky played 1487 games, while Lemieux played only 915 games. Gretzky scored 0,6 goals per game in his career. Lemieux scored 0,75 goals per game in his career and only 200 goals behind Greatzky but in almost 600 games less! If you add that 0,75 goals per game in 600 missing games, that is another 450 goals wich would make it 1140 goals in his career. Sure scoring goes down when aging, but Lemieux would most likely have beaten Gretzky in the same number of games.
djvoldo 1 year ago
I'd put Lemieux no.1 as well. Gretzky played 1487 games, while Lemieux played only 915 games. Gretzky scored 0,6 goals per game in his career. Lemieux scored 0,75 goals per game in his career and only 200 goals behind Greatzky but in almost 600 games less! If you add that 0,75 goals per game in 600 missing games, that is another 450 goals wich would make it 1140 goals in his career. Sure scoring goes down when aging, but Lemieux would most likely have beaten Gretzky in the same number of games.
djvoldo 1 year ago
Nothing against Super Mario but Wayne Gretzky is probably the best forward in recent history. I would put Mario 2nd on the all time list.
ace942 1 year ago
This guy's an idiot. Some of his reasons for ranking Lemieux #1: He scored a goal on his first shift. He came back after being treated for cancer. He won the Calder Trophy. He once had an 8 point game. How about focusing on an entire career, where Gretzky has records that will never be touched.
bailinnumberguy 1 year ago
@bailinnumberguy
I agree with you, these points are not exceptional. A goal on his 1st shift, Malkin scored in his 1st six games, that's better. Came back from cancer, just like Koivu, Kessel, Blake, Cullen. A 8 pts game, Sittler had 10. He won the Calder, so did a bunch of players.
But who else scored 215 pts, 92 goals, 163 assists, 2000 career pts, 50 goals in 39 gms, and on and on...
Irato99 1 year ago
@Irato99 how many scoring titles did koivu, kessel, blake and cullen win? which one of them came back to the ice the same day as a chemo session? and scored in that game? and when did wayne ever have to put up with the hacking and slashing that lemieux did? never,never and never!
skrabble66 1 year ago
@skrabble66
Wayne had to put up with the same hacking and slashing than Lemieux, but he was so bright he knew how to avoid it.
What does it change if Mario scored coming back from cancer, Koivu did it and I'm not making a big deal out of it.
Irato99 1 year ago
Finally, an expert who 'gets it.'
103Uke 1 year ago
Mario was awesome! He may not have had the stats that 99 had but the only reason that he doesn't is because of all the diseases he had that caused him so much pain that he couldn't tie his own skates. If he hadn't retired the first time that would have added 3 more years in his career to dominate!
akirsch13 1 year ago
It's not about stats... It's about raw talent. At the peak of his game, no one could match him. The Great One would probably admit himself... But as I mentioned before, who cares today... We were so lucky (hockey fans) to be able to see these two amazing players (99 and 66) in the same time. I miss those days...
skmtuae 1 year ago 21
@skmtuae How can you say it`s not about stats. You declaring that Lemieux had the most raw power doesn`t justify him being coined `the greatest forward``. Stats are facts. 50 goals in 39 games, the most goals in a season, the most points in a season etc are things that can impress a hockey fan and justify Gretsky being named the best.. Personal opinions or observations are subjective, they mean nothing. Even if Lemieux did have more raw power, he didn`t produce. A forwards job is to get points
jcs1234jcs 1 year ago
@jcs1234jcs his name is spelled Gretzky, if you can't spell his name you haven't watched enough tape. somehow you know how to spell LEMIEUX! Enough said sir
skrabble66 1 year ago
@skrabble66 that's your arguement? a typo? Clearly you have no real arguement, you are simply against my statement. And also, i speak french so i would be more likely to spell Lemieux properly. Now, if you have something to say about my previous comment, say it. If you are going to edit it, you are wasting my time.
jcs1234jcs 1 year ago
@skmtuae
we the 87 and the 9 now... not as good as lemieux and gretzky, but they give us a great show
MOMOarabe 1 year ago
@skmtuae I totally agree. I'm 33 now, and I was right into it at that time! Canada Cup 87 was to me the most insane hockey I've ever watch!
cello3 1 year ago
@skmtuae It' also about measurable accomplishments. If it was only about talent Kovalev would be in the top three. Mario's accoplishments do not even come close to Gretzky's.
TheLindsman68 1 year ago
Was this video filmed in Westmount, Montreal?
LoowheezeBreeze 1 year ago
correct me if im wrong lol is this guy saying lemieux is better than gretzky ahahah no disrespect for Mario.....hes awesome but get real u dinkkkkkk Gretzky IS HOCKEY! and hockey IS canada's game lol Gretzky is the legend.....the best in hockey history and so far no one has statistically proved that wrong the narrator in here is a goof
safesingh1 1 year ago
i love super mario hes amazing
lucasgarbagecan 1 year ago
gretzky managed to score 50 goals in 39 games
shararsifat 1 year ago
@shararsifat yeah, when the game was TOTALLY different. and goalies werent NEARLY as good
slaphappy18 1 year ago
@slaphappy18
Then how do you explain that the season he did 50 in 39, Gretzky finished 28 goals ahead of the 2nd best, the great Mike Bossy. Gretzky got 92 goals when only two other players could reach 60, and I'm not talking about points, a 65 pts lead that year.
Irato99 1 year ago
I think he means Doug Shedden and Warren Young.... Please look up a 1984 Penguins roster instead of a 1991 roster ;)
gaiter83 1 year ago
PITTSSSBURRGHH PENNGUINNNSS!!! I agree with Lemieux being 1, but where is Jaromir Jagr, Peter Forsberg, Steve Yzerman, Joe Sakic????????????
drehockey09 1 year ago
Mario Lemiuex is not the greatest, sure you have to be talented to be the best. But you have to also be able to resist injuries. Mario could not do that, even if it was cancer, no excuses.
EvansthemanOHISAIDIT 1 year ago
It is a well known fact that Lemieux played with severe back pain, especially in the early 90s. Injuries aren't suprising considering the amount of abuse he received due to his lack of protection by goons.
Don't believe me? Look at most of his well known goals. He is hacked, hooked, and nearly sliced up in most of them yet he still scores.
The man played with crippling pain (couldn't lace his own skates due to it) and still topped the league in points or close to it. That is greatness.
EvilCheerioMan 1 year ago
@EvilCheerioMan well said
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
@EvansthemanOHISAIDIT that is stupid. So the players that had more points than him were better? Thats like saying Gale Sayers sucked. Points dont tell the story. emieux would have scored 250 points if he played with the early 80's Oilers
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
he won the scoring title the year he had cancer dummy
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
Doesn't matter.
EvansthemanOHISAIDIT 1 year ago
then was does matter?
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
you have to be able to resist injuries.
EvansthemanOHISAIDIT 1 year ago
@EvansthemanOHISAIDIT
How do you resist cancer?
phoskins 1 year ago
@phoskins
It's obvious what I meant. It was bad (for lack of a better word) that he got cancer.
But missing games hurt his career. No question.
(Just logged into this account after months, that's why I'm so late)
EvansthemanOHISAIDIT 1 year ago
Mario scored in the first game on the first shift on the first shot of his nhl career. It doesnt say that he scored on the first shot in the video, but look it up. It's true. He was truly the greatest forward of all time sorry Gretz...
MrSS454 1 year ago
@MrSS454
Mario may have scored on his first shift, but he scored his second goal on the 9th game, and the third goal on game no.14, so there's nothing to brag about here (Malkin scored in his first 6 games, that's far more impressive).
And, by the way, it took three years for Mario to reach the 50 goals plateau. Gretzky, in his third year, reached the 90 goals plateau... Sorry Mario.
Irato99 1 year ago
I think that Lemieux was just the better forward. I kinow Wayne Gretzky had the most points in one season and goals, but that was all in his great positioning. Lemieux was almost the same way, but he made the plays more, which is why I think he was the better forward, and after having a greater than 1 point per game average affter having Hodgkins lymphoma, that's just plain amazing.
MrSS454 1 year ago
greater than 1 goal a game :) not points. Over 2.5 PPG
thomasmoonman 1 year ago
@Irato99 Gretz had already played professional hockey and when he came into the league, he came to a contender with the likes of Coffey, Mess, Kurri, Anderson etc. Lemieux came to the worst team in the league. Gretz even said Lemieux was better...look it up
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
@BradyMVP66
When Gretzky came to the league (with an EXPANSION team), he won the Hart and tied for scoring lead, none of the players you mentioned except Mess were in the team (he got 33 pts).
Irato99 1 year ago
I do stand corrected on the players, but Gretzky was in his 3rd professional season. and No they werent expansion, they came from the WHA. Where the Oilers lost in the Championship. He didnt go to a team that was 16-58. When Gretz had 200 points, all those Hof"s were on the team
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
@BradyMVP66
Gretzky was in his 2nd professional season, not 3rd (and he was 18 on his NHL debut).
The Oilers were an expansion team, do you need a definition of this word?
When Gretzky had his first 200+ pts season, he was 107 pts ahead of his best teammate. The fact that this teammate is in the HoF or not is pretty irrelevant on that case. Actually, it just puts Gretzky on a God-like level to see him dominating a team full of HoFers.
Irato99 1 year ago
The fact that Lemieux had 199 points on a team of chumps is more impressive. The Oilers moved leagues, they werent a first year org. They came with a bunch of good players not a bunch of league outcasts like the Sharks or Sens had to do. Having teammates that are HoF's is irrellevant? How is that? this is a team game. Gretz doesnt score 200 pts by himself. Pts per game Lem 1.88, Gretz 1.92, Pretty even in my eyes. You really have no arguement. When Gretz scored his 1st 50 there were 9 50 goal
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
scorers. When Lemieux did it there was only 5. Scoring was up when Gretz got his. They both had 43 goals their rookie seasons, but Lemieux did it in a better league so by your rational Lemieux is better. They were both amazing players but if you watch video Lemieux was a better overall player. Gretz little stop and slap shot over the glove wouldnt work anymore. BTW the leaguge expanded by merging not by creating new franchises. Do you need me to explain the diff?
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
@BradyMVP66
Gretzky had 51 goals on his rookie season. When he scored 200 pts, he was alone, the pts difference explains it all. Gretzky didn't have NHL 50 goals scorers to play with when he came in the league, Mario had 2. Honestly, which good players were with the Oilers when they came in the league?
Irato99 1 year ago
Lemieux had 2 50 goal scorers when he came in the league? Who were they? Come on. Why didnt Gretzky win rookie of the year? Cuz he wasnt a rookie. Do you need me to define rookie? Gretz was alone when he scored 200? no he wasnt. the top 5 scorers on the team were HoF's and then there was Kevin Lowe and Grant Fuhr. But having those 2 prob doesnt help the offense, right?
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
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Irato99 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BradyMVP66
Mike Bullard and Wayne Babych were 50 goals scorers. I could have said Rick Kehoe too but it's unfair because he retired on Mario's 1st season.
When Gretzky scored 200+ the 1st time, he has more goals than any of his teammates had pts, except Anderson who had 105 pts. That's Anderson most productive season ever, yet it's not even half of Gretzky production that year, he was alone.
Irato99 1 year ago
@MrSS454 true
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
Why do people say merrio instead of Mario?
Johnnybomb1 2 years ago
mario is best ever. he could do everything that gretsky could do and more.
ladderbelt66 2 years ago
@ladderbelt66
Did Mario get 92 goals in a season? No.
Did Mario get 163 assists in a season? No.
Did Mario get a 200+ pts season? No.
Did Mario score 50 goals in 39 games? No.
Did Mario have a point in 51 consecutive games? No.
Did Mario win 9 Hart trophies? No.
Did Mario win 10 Art Ross trophies? No.
Did Mario...
Irato99 1 year ago
@Irato99 did gretz have cancer, did gretz get hacked and held and cheap shotted all the time. Did Lemieux play with a team of Hall of Famers. Lemieux scored 85 goals and 199 points with garbage players
BradyMVP66 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BradyMVP66
Having cancer is not something you can or cannot do.
Gretzky got hacked and held and cheap shotted too, he played in the same league, but he was a lot brighter than Mario and could avoid coverage.
Mario played with Francis, Cullen, Murphy, Trottier, Coffey, all HoFers, and I'm not counting Jagr and Recchi.
Lemieux got 199 pts with one of the greatest d-man of all time and the current holder of pts and assists records in the WHL, really not garbage players.
Irato99 1 year ago
Wasn't Lemieux a little gawky looking on the ice . Maybe it was his size.. probably was.! I never found him, graceful and he never looked like he was born to the manor like an Orr or a Bobby Hull . I don't deny what he did on the ice but somehow I can't fathom the fanaticism of those that swear by him. I always felt part of of any legend was how you looked doing it. I think Gretzky more talented than Mario but I prefer Hull and Orr over Wayne! So now you know how old school I am!
lpvcrcd 2 years ago
And yes- I know Orr was a defenseman !
lpvcrcd 2 years ago
I knew a player from the US 1980 Olympic team and he had been a talented hockey player since he was 8 I remember running into him at a pub and he heaped praises on Gretzky's talent as many did who knew the game. Just a story I tell ..Remember Guy LeFleur and the other Montrealer [before him? ] who were highly praised as teens Can't remember his name He was Canadian.. Can anyone help??
lpvcrcd 2 years ago
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DUDE245269 2 years ago
relying on numbers only to make this list they did
Darksiayan 2 years ago
motleyollinirvana 2 years ago
messier should be in the top 5 for sure i mean he is second in all time scoring
lh141 2 years ago
I like how he changes the pronunciation of "Lemieux" throughout.
Xofdre 2 years ago
Xofdre, most people pronounce it "Lemew" when in fact it is pronounced "Lemiuh". It's from a French origin.
BlackieChan002 2 years ago
to stop all arguments, i win.. im the best LOL
BigBents 2 years ago
i wonder if this jackass knows what cancer mario had.
pags1586 2 years ago
This video forgot to mention that he stayed with one team, now he's owns that team. That like John Elway makes him even greater.
pygmygrizzly 2 years ago
typo... Lemieux made Brown a 49 goal scorer.
And i forgot to mention. Look at who won Vezina trophies in Gretzky's era and notice their GAA. It was in the 3's. Those numbers today even with the new rules gets you a seat..... on your couch at home never to play again.
Lemieux's skills transcended all eras and play styles
fctsu2000 2 years ago
Another Lemieux fan with wrong statistics (they're everywhere!). All Vezina trophy winners the 5 years Gretzky played before Lemieux have GAA under 3.00, nice try...
And Lemieux would never have had 199 pts without Rob Brown.
Irato99 2 years ago
you dont know shit about hockey man! you jackass!! rob brown had 2 good years in his carrer and you say that lemiux would never have had 199 pts without him? what r u on pot? hahahah
capano93 2 years ago
Well, Rob Brown had two good years, one of them is when he helped Lemieux get 199 pts. Mario never got close to this without Brown (who wasn't a dummy at all, dominating in the juniors with a 200+ pts season).
Irato99 2 years ago
yeah your right rob brown is ok, but i still think lemieux is a good player without him and hes still one of my favourite players but i'll admit that gretzky was better than him.
capano93 2 years ago
Mario was without a doubt more than a good player...
Irato99 2 years ago
Gretzky is the greatest ever and lemieux isnt in the top 3. Lemieux is one of the greatest individual players but Gretzky made everyone around him a superstar status player. Gretzky vs Orr vs Richard. Gretzky = Most points 2857, Orr = plus/minus of +124 in one season and Richard was alot alike Lemieux about 70 years ago. First to score 50 in 50. #4 is a toss up between Lemieux and Howe
Shea1414 2 years ago
Lemeiux is the best. Gretzky had too much talent around him. The oilers won a stanley cup without him and he never won it again. If you take Lemieux out of the pens they could never won the cup. Even S. Bowman said that he would take Mario over anybody if their was a open draft with every all of fame player. Le magnifique baby!!! all the way
TheFearlessHyena 2 years ago
The Pens won the cup without Mario, your memeory is very short. Actually, the Pens finally made the playoffs for the fisrt time in 5 years when Mario retired for good.
Lemieux had as much talent around as Gretzky, but it's 99 who got all the records...
Irato99 2 years ago
he got all the records because of about 500 more games than lemieux
motleyollinirvana 2 years ago
This obviously doesn't apply to all the single season records Gretzky has (and not Mario). And to retire at 31 like Mario did doesn't show that you want to be the best ever...
Irato99 2 years ago
you obviously dont know why he retired, look up everything he went through during his career.
TehCoach 2 years ago
Yeah, he should've played golf instead.
Irato99 2 years ago
OMG Shea you truly are retarded. Gretzky played with Mark Messier and Jari Kurri and had Paul Coffey on defense. Lemieux played with ROB BROWN and Brown made him a 49 goal scorer. Brown is a career minor leaguer while Kurri, Coffey and Messier were never doubted as great players even without Gretzky. Does that debunk your horse's ass statement about making others better?... Yes it does
People like you should be euthanized for stupid comments like Lemieux shouldn't be in the top 3
fctsu2000 2 years ago
There's no way Lemieux is in front of Gretzky, Orr and Howe. And there's a lot of hockey experts you should euthanize for saying that.
Irato99 2 years ago
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pontikka10 2 years ago
You're too young kid. You never saw Grets in his prime.
TurnpikecIII 2 years ago
i cant believe what im hearin...mario lemieux is my favorite player of all time and if he was healthy i think he could have beaten gretzky's goal record but gretzky dominated hockey in EVERY offensive category to the point if he never scored a goal in his CAREER he would still have more points than ANYBODY..gretzky dominated hockey more than anyone has domianted ANY sport
bobdacreepable 2 years ago 2
This will all be a moot point in 10 years time. Then it will be "Lemieux and Gretzky were greats of the game, but Sidney Crosby...."
muztard 2 years ago
I still son't understand why some people put Mario in front of Gretzky. I mean, everything Mario did, Wayne did it better or faster. He should be no.1 easily...
Irato99 2 years ago 2
Wayne had an army with him, he wasn't sick and chalked up tonnes of assits by bouncing pucks off Semenko's ass...Look at today....Gretzky can't coach and Mario is still building Stanley Cup teams....no comparison.
eddivanhalen 2 years ago
Another stupid comment, Semenko has 65 career goals and Gretzky has 1963 career assists, nice try idiot.
And please, post-career isn't the subject here, but according to the fact that the Penguins have two 1st overall picks and two 2nd overall picks in their team, I assume that Lemieux's strategy to build a winning team is to suck so bad for a long time to get all the best picks (the team missed the playoffs 4 of the 5 years Mario played in the 2000's, good loser job Mario...)
Irato99 2 years ago
like the video said mario had to battle cancer and missed alot of games making it harder for him to match gretzky
xbourne117x 2 years ago
That's why Mario shouldn't be no.1, he just couldn't match Gretzky.
Irato99 2 years ago
"failed to be the best ever"might be the most moronic statement i've ever read,opinions aside Mario Lemieux achieved ever personal and team GOAL one can strive to be,least he never got fired?get a life,idiot
tjgorman66 2 years ago
this guy's a doorknob
LeBESTinSHOW 2 years ago
If you want to compare the scoring of two or more forwards, you've got to compare average goals per game during a season divided by average goals per game for every forward in the league that season. You'll find that Richard was number one, Howe was number two, and the rest trailed behind. As far as all around, Howe's the only one that was great at everything. He was the first and best true power forward.
mrwcf 2 years ago
Mario lemieux cest le meilleur en sall ya juste jouer avec 2 bonne personnes en carriere pi (grezky ya jouer avec plein de super vedette) comme Brett hull,Luc robitaille,Jari Kurri,Paul Coffey et Marc Messier... McDermott2012 you right.
Qc94pwer 2 years ago
McDermott2012 is wrong...
Irato99 2 years ago
le 99 a jouez pas mal plus de match que le 66,Lemieux a commencer avec rien chez les pinguins allez jusqua sont deuxieme retourne chez les pinguoins il etais dans le livre des records pour la meilleur moyenne de point par match pour les ceux qui dise a oui mais il etais avec Jagr cest faux regarder jagr quand il a quiter les pinguoins il a rien fait pourquoi parceque il avait le meilleur joueur du monde avec lui,
stevejosephlizzotte 2 years ago
Un autre commentaire ridicule. Jagr a gagné 4 de ses 5 Art Ross sans Lemieux, et il a eu une saison de 123 pts avec les Rangers, à 2 pts du sommet. De plus, Mario n'est plus le détenteur du record pour les pts/matchs, c'est Gretzky, donc ça sert à rien d'amener ça sur le sujet. Finalement, Gretzky à joué beaucoup plus de matchs que Lemieux et c'est tout à son avantage, l'endurance c'est une qualité et Mario ne l'avait pas.
Irato99 2 years ago
look at the teams they played on. Gretzky played with SO MANY hall of famers. i.e. Messier, Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, and Jari Kurri, then Luc Robitaille in LA, later Brett Hull on St. Louis, and then Rejoining Messier in NY. The only Superstar Lemieux ever played with were Jagr and Ron Francis
McDermott2012 2 years ago 2
It's quite funny that you say that Gretzky played with Paul Coffey but you forget to mention that he also played with Lemieux. And you also forget that Lemieux played with as many Hall of Famers as Gretzky (and be serious, Wayne only played 18 games with Hull...). Do some research before posting stupids comments.
Irato99 2 years ago
Coffey,Fuhr,Messier,Kurri HOFers the Great one played with most of his career in Edmonton,name the 4 HOFers Mario played with???His linemates his rookie year were Warren Young and Rob Brown,one more thing #66 played with that Gretzky didnt CANCER,enough research MORON????
tjgorman66 2 years ago
Wow, that's easy...
Lemieux played with Coffey, Francis, Mullen, Murphy, Trottier, all HOFers, and you could add Jagr and Recchi who soon will be (that's 7 players MORON).
And please, Rob Brown wasn't even close to the NHL on Lemieux rookie year, he was on the first of 3 years in the WHL with the Blazers in which he scored 464 pts on 192 games (it's obvious he later helped Mario get his best year ever...).
And one more thing #66 played with that Gretzky didn't have, 6 ft 4.5 in, 235 lb. MORON...
Irato99 2 years ago
Rob Brown,Bob Errey,Warren Young,same difference,hardly Kurri,Anderson,Messier,Coffey and Fuhr,Mario and Wayne both played with jagr and Coffey so cancel those 2 out,how about all the other guys #99 played with,Leetch,Hull,Robitaille,Nichols,Graves, Coffey was interviewed after Mario retired the first time and he said"Bar none he's definitely the most talented i've played with!"
tjgorman66 2 years ago
Are you deliberately avoiding to mention Ron Francis, 2nd all-time assist and 4th all-time pts...Nice try!
And don't make me laugh, #99 played 18 games with Hull..
And #99 won the Hart and tied for the Art Ross playing with Blair McDonald and Stan Weir, you don't mention those players...
Mario might have been the most talented, but #99 had heart, desire and great work ethics that made him the best ever.
(I won't mention you wrote that #99 played with Jagr, you look stupid enough...)
Irato99 2 years ago
My bad on the Jagr addition,he scored the OT GW in Gretzky's final game and Francis and mario played a little over 5 full seasons together,bottom line is no way did #66 play with talent around him over a career that #99 did,and considering what Lemieux had to overcome(ESPN rates him the toughest player ever)forget that heart and desire comparsion
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