Brothers and Sisters This is FALSE teaching, Jesus's last Words were for us to PREACH the GOOD News, there is no price to pay, Jesus Christ paid it ALL. When God closes the Dispensation of Grace, by taking his Spirit and Church from the earth, then those who are left behind, will endure the tribulation. I am the prophet of Amos 3:7. JESUS WILL BE BACK for HIS CHURCH, the WEEK of PASSOVER 2012
@SoReadyToGoHome Brothers and Sisters, Like all false prophets they claim that the true prophetic word is a lie, they have always convinced God's people there will never be a time of collective punishment from God upon his people, they never prove there point by scripture, all they rely on are false delusions of escaping the the promised correction of God upon his kingdom (Christians) this false prophet doesn't even bother to attempt to refute the standing comment in this vid
@SoReadyToGoHome You need to look at my video "he that now letteth means, God is holding Satan until his time comes" that video will prove you haven't even studied your bible, all you have is a belief, and you aimlessly attempt to match scripture with your false belief, perhaps you should also see my "101 lies of the rapturist". Your view is so blown to pieces doctrinally it isn't even funny, Jesus comes after the trib. gathers his people and destroys Satan's kingdom; same time
@SoReadyToGoHome Hopefully some day you'll learn to read the full context of I Thess 4and 5 where the meeting in the air occurs at the same time as the sudden destruction; The sudden destruction comes "when" (after) they say (the whole world declares) peace and safety, as in after a time of great trouble (trib.) then Jesus as in Rev.16:15 comes as a thief in the night and consumes Satan's kingdom at his appearance when we are judged II Tim.4:1 and especially Rev.11:18 read it!
@SoReadyToGoHome This false prophet also has the signature of false prophets, "a time prediction of when the Lord's coming shall be, like all the other date setters this one too shall be proven wrong, when do they ever learn, and why do fools flock to their message? its a mystery to me SoReadyToGoHome you are an embarrassment to the kingdom of God and truth, and God has sworn that you and those like you will not be forgiven for the lost souls that follow you, I feel srry for you
@SoReadyToGoHome Were you any kind of prophet of God you would know the truth and stand up for it by the scripture, fact that you won't stand up for what you teach is proof positive you are like all the other false prophets, none of them use scripture, all of them claim to be God's prophet and all of them claim that God's people will not be punished.
@SoReadyToGoHome You have all the making of a false prophet i have all the making of a teacher of the word of God, so put up or shut up, but you can't because the truth is not in you just vain claims like all the other false prophets.
@SoReadyToGoHome The bible says "the wages of sin is death Rom.6:23 but you say there is no price to pay, the bible says work out your salvation in fear and trembling, the bible says that we should commit "the keeping of our soul" in well doings but you (false prophet) say Christ paid it all, yes he did, for those that love him and keep his commandments for he said "if you love me, keep my commandments, and furthermore repent lest I blot out your name out the Lambs book of life.
rev 16:15 is a good find. So many refuse to believe that he comes like a thief after the tribulation. They believe only a secret coming prior can be deemed like a thief.
@JoBernard12oxen Firt I'd like to say that you do look like the rock Dwayne Johnson lol Great video thanks for the information I recently came to this same realization that the rapture is not true as far as the way it's being teached, we are caught up at the last trumpet sound after the dead in Christ rise first then we who are alive. I would love to talk to you about this I have a few questions, if you have time my email is Gtiguy3@hotmail.com
Just posted to Youtube, In a very powerful prophecy Jesus reveals that Obama is indeed the Antichrist! Jesus also reveals that the false prophet is known and is standing in the shadows.
Also hear a shocking False Rapture/Alien Invasion Warning from Jesus.
@1954phyllis Information in this video is strictly Bible based, you can not prove that there will be a rapture before the Lord's day: Upon the Lord's day the kingdom of God will meet the Lord in the air at the same time the Lord destroys the kingdoms of this world in one sudden wave of destruction I Thess.5:1-3 at that time we will reign with Christ until Satan is loosed. There is no bible basis for a pre-trib rapture, none, you are dreaming, read your bible and wake up to reality.
@JoBernard12oxen Nope!!!! That is totally ridiculous, why would Jesus come in the clouds to gather the sainsts and then make a u-turn and bring them back to earth. Really why bother? I don't know what Bible you are reading but it sure doesn't sound like the KJV. Of course there is a Bible basis for the pre-trib rapture. FYI I read my Bible every day. Why in this world don't you read 1 Thess. 4:16-17?
@1954phyllis Don't stop at verse 17 and add your own time frame to it, keep reading, it then says that the day of the Lord (the same day we meet him in the air) comes when (after) they say peace and safety; as in after a time of great tribulation-the Lord comes with "sudden destruction". Also Rev 11:15-18 says he judges the saints, servants and prophets in the same day he destroys those that destroys the earth. There is no rapture "before" the day the Lord destroys Satan's kingdom.
@1954phyllis Why would the bible say the Lord is going to suddenly destroy the kingdoms of this world at the same time we meet him in the air and at the same time he judges his people at the appearing of the Lord II Tim 4:1 if there is a separate rapture? The truth, there is no rapture "before" the day the Lord returns, he destroys Satan's kingdom, and reigns. And we reign with him on earth; even Rev.19:7-9 says the marriage of the Lamb is after the great whore kingdom is cast down.
@1954phyllis Tell me now, is the bible lying about the sudden destruction on the Lord's day, Is the bible lying about the meeting in the air being on the Lord's day when he comes, when it says when (after) they say peace and safety, is the bible lying to us that the sudden destruction comes after? Does Rev.11:18 lie to us about the saints being judged when the Lord destroys those that destroyed the earth?
@1954phyllis Does Jesus lie to us about his coming and the gathering of the saints immediately after the tribulation of those days Matt.24:29? Why don't you answer the question of why the Lord is gathering the saints at the exact same time he is destroying the kingdoms of this world? why don't you read II Thess. where Paul tells the saints not to be deceived: that day (the Lord's day) will not come except (until) there be a departing from the faith (falling away) and Satan comes
@1954phyllis Why would the bible say the man of sin (Satan) is consumed at the appearing of the Lord and also say we are judged at the appearing of the Lord if it were not so? Why would Jesus warn us that false prophets will teach that the Lord comes "before the time" Matt.24:26 is Jesus lying, if not why does he prophesy that they will teach he comes before the time is Jesus a false prophet? I think you should answer these questions they are perfectly valid questions.
@JoBernard12oxen Sir the saints throughout the ages will appear with Jesus at the battle of Armaggedon. You are forgetting about all those saints that will be beheaded during the tribulation. Jesus was talking about those false prophets that would claim that they are Jesus but aren't. Jesus never lied. No Jesus is not a false prophet. I say to you read the Bible in it you will find the truth.
@1954phyllis The battle of Armageddon is in Rev.16, Rev 16:15 says the Lord comes as a thief in the night (just like in I Thess.5:2-3) AFTER the six plague of tribulation. Now isn't that amazing we are assembled with him to battle and destroy the kingdoms of this world after the tribulation plagues and at the same time we meet him in the air. I think you are starting to get it, The meeting in the air is at the same time the Lord destroys Satan's kingdom after the tribulation, Mame
@1954phyllis There is no rapture or meeting of the saints in all of scripture that occurs before the day the Lord comes, when at his appearing the saints meet him in the air, and are judged, Satan is consumed, the kingdoms of this world are destroyed, and the saint reign with Christ and the marriage supper occurs after Satan's kingdom is cast down after the tribulation. There is no rapture before the tribulation or during. the meeting in the air occurs when sudden destruction comes
@1954phyllis You don't read your bible, you read into your bible what you what it to say. You claim there is a pretibulation rapture. The bible says that Christ kingdom is an everlasting kingdom II Pet.1.:1 Now just what does everlasting mean to you, that it ceases from the earth and then returns? or does everlasting mean everlasting as in Christ kingdom is always in the earth and that God is able to protect his own regardless of what he brings upon the earth.
@1954phyllis So what is the direct result of your deception that a pre-tribulation rapture will occur. In a future time all the world will be forced to accept a worldwide identification system, for which the saints will resist, the resolve of those expecting a rapture before the tribulation will collapse upon the tribulation when they see even the Shepard, sheep and the little ones of the Lord are subject to the trib. Zach.13:7-9 who are the sheep and the little ones of the Lord?
@1954phyllis The Lord will have mercy upon them that had mercy and judgment upon them that deceived his little ones. You have violated the heritage of the Lord and polluted the kingdom of God with lies. many will lose their soul on account of your message and they will stand in judgment before the Lord and say you taught them these lies. As a result you will not find grace and mercy in your hour of need nor the salvation and forgiveness you so earnestly expect.
@1954phyllis God has sworn and can not lie, though the truth come to you , you can not receive it, because the Lord can not lie: he said those that hate the truth and love lies will have strong delusion that they should believe a lie. Therefore it is not possible for you to receive the truth because God himself is holding you under the delusion of the lie you have given yourself unto, Why? because you have have deeply damaged the body of Christ and injured many saints unto death.
@JoBernard12oxen Say what? How in this world have I damaged the body of Christ and injured many saints unto death? FYI I am totally going by what the Bible says. It is obvious to me that you pick and choose what you want to believe in the Bible. Haven't you read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17? It is obvious that there is going to be a pre-trib rapture. Be ready because it will be horrible for you if you have believed a lie instead of me.
@1954phyllis I gave you all the bible proof you need, I made a perfect case from scripture that the meeting in the air (rapture) only occurs upon the Lord's day when the sudden destruction is brought upon Satan's kingdom. I proved that over and over the meeting in the air is not before the day of he Lord only you are so deceived you can not receive it no matter how plain the scripture makes it. you are under strong delusion, I have preached true word of God you pervert the gospel.
@1954phyllis I challenge you prove to me using the scripture that the meeting in the air is before the sudden destruction I Thess 4 and 5. Prove to me using the bible that the saints are judged before the same day the Lord destroys those that destroyed the earth Rev.11:18. Prove the marriage of the Lamb is before the kingdom of Satan is cast down Rev.19:7-9. Prove Christ kingdom is not everlasting, prove that the Lord comes immediately "before" the tribulation Matt.24:29 You can't!
@1954phyllis You can't and haven't refuted any of the challenges I posed to you from scripture. Your version of the bible is incomplete and added to by your own beliefs. You have not proven any of the real truth of scripture that I presented as false or wrong. Would you be so foolish to say the meeting in the air does not happen upon the Lord's day after they say peace and safety and when the sudden destruction comes on them appointed to the wrath of God?
@1954phyllis Would you be so foolish to say the marriage supper of the Lord is before Satan's kingdom is cast down? All you do is keep saying the same ol lie over and over and you like to add stuff like of course its going to happen, like you're trying to make it sound like its so matter of fact. well a matter of fact you are a lair, and the truth is not in you. the rapture won't happen before its time and its time is when the Lord returns and destroys Satan's kingdom.
@1954phyllis The tribulation is coming on Satan's kingdom because he will wear out the saints (Christians) and will persecute them and many of them will die for the name of Christ Rev.14:13 , but many saints will fall away and the Lord begs them to come out of the great whore kingdom in Rev.18:4 but the Lord returns, we meet him in the air and he suddenly destroys Satan's kingdom. i dare you to say it is not so. To say the meeting in the sir is before the sudden destruction is sin
@1954phyllis Are you saying the meeting in the air (rapture) does not happen at the same time the sudden destruction comes and the man of sin is consumed at the appearing of the Lord?I Thess 4 and 5 are you saying we (Christians) won't be judged at the appearing of the Lord at the same time the Lord destroys those that destroyed the earth Rev.11:18. You can't have it both ways, the rapture is before the sudden destruction or during the sudden destruction, what does the bible say?
@JoBernard12oxen The rapture takes place rightr before the tribulation.The saints that are raptured will be judged during the tribulation. If you would read the Bible you would know this. And another thing is why do you think that the church isn't mentioned after the 4th chapter of Revelation.
@1954phyllis you still avoid the questions do you think that just because you say "The rapture takes place rightr before the tribulation" that God will change the bible to suit your wishes. You don't even go about using the bible to prove your point, you just say something and expect it to be true, that's silly, the bible says the saints are judged when the Lord destroys the kingdoms of this world did you read Rev.11:18? read? the Lord destroys Satan's kingdom after the tribulation.
@1954phyllis Rev.14:12 these saints are they that keep the commands of God and the faith of Jesus they are Christians Rev.14:13 the angel proclaims of them which did not receive the mark of the beast or worshiped his image “Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.” these are dying “in the Lord” during the time of a worldwide marking system these are Christians
@1954phyllis The marriage supper is either before Satan's kingdom is thrown down or after, what does the bible say? answer the question. Who are the sheep and little ones and Shepards of the Lord, why does it say 2/3rds of the saints die in the tribulation and 1/3rd are severely tested if its not so Zach.13:7-9 Why does Jesus speak of his coming and the gathering of the elect (church) immediately after the tribulation? why don't you answer these questions? what's wrong with you?
@JoBernard12oxen The marriage suupper of the Lamb is right after the rapture of the saved saints. Those saints that die during the tribulation are the ones that are saved and beheaded because of their love for Christ. Jesus did not say that He would gather His saints immediately after the tribulation. Read the Bible.
an EXTREMELY GOOD explanation you touched on alot of points that im taking back with me to add to my list of reasons why we are going through the tribbulation.
@EESleepingForest Thank you friend, its amazing that an unbiased, clear headed, conscientious approach to the Word make it plain to see that the meeting in the air occurs when the Lord returns to destroy the kingdoms of this world, at which time he naturally would have to gather the saints and assemble them with himself as he reigns from Jerusalem. All this is very plain to them which do not hold preconceived notions about the false rapture. Thanks to you and all those that confirm this is so.
@JoBernard12oxen yeah i guess its hard for some people to accept even when you read scripture to them in plain understandable context to them because some of them have believed this for years and so have their parents so they dont find it easy to let go of what they've stuck to for so many years. I use to be a rapture believer, but that was because thats what they always told me at church. and i watched the left behind movies
@JoBernard12oxen UNTILL i saw "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". then things began toclick somewhat, the rapture itself had always everything so confusing to me, why would God say i am telling you everything that is going to happen in the time of the end, Revelations, a book "revealing" the co,ing of Jesus Christ and Jesus himself said i have told you "EVERYTHING" beforehand yes, Revelations seems to miss out on adding that 1/3 of the worlds population suddenly disappears?
@harrypotterification Man lies about the timing of the rapture, there shall be a meeting in the air, a "rapture" if you will, but that rapture only occurs at the exact same time of the sudden destruction of Satan's end time world kingdom; read I Thess. 4 "and" 5 the meeting in the air is inseparable from the sudden destruction. Also Rev.11:18 the judgment of the saints of God is at his appearing when he also destroys them which destroys the earth. There is no rapture before the Lord's return.
2 Thess. 1:1-12, 2, 2:1-12 when Jesus comes with fire/angels taking vengeance (judgment-destruction)
Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Joel 1-3, Jesus illustrate events leading up to world wide persecution of the spiritual Jerusalem, which is the desolation of abomination. The tribulation begins after the persecution begins "But before all these"
Zach.13:7-9 2/3's of the Shepard, sheep and the little ones die, and 1/3 are severely tested; the sheep are Christians, Christ followers
52 It will happen suddenly, quicker than the blink of an eye. At the sound of the last trumpet the dead will be raised. We will all be changed, so that we will never die again. 53 Our dead and decaying bodies will be changed into bodies that won't die or decay. 54The bodies we now have are weak and can die. But they will be changed into bodies that are eternal. Then the Scriptures will come true,
50 My friends, I want you to know that our bodies of flesh and blood will decay. This means that they cannot share in God's kingdom, which lasts forever. 51 I will explain a mystery to you. Not every one of us will die, but we will all be changed.
Thank you so much, thank you Lord for this blessed message. My heart is terribly broken as I watch so many Christians seek after false signs and wonders, seeking a "revelation" - rejecting sound doctrine, and instead embracing a lie. The Bible says God will send them all STRONG DELUSION, and so He has. They are virtually all believing the lie.
@misshotyoga Thank you, its encouraging to see that not all are consumed by the lies, I appreciate your pure heart and your Christian devotion, may God so richly bless you always.
@preceptafterprecept The meeting in the air occurs at the exact same time as the sudden destruction: the sudden destruction occurs upon the "day of the Lord" which yes by the way is also signified as the seventh trumpet, which is the last trumpet of Revelation. The false rapture is this lie that claims the Lord comes before the second coming and raptures all the good Christians to heaven before or during the tribulation. May I suggest you actually view this presentation before commenting.
@preceptafterprecept A so called rapture that occurs "before" the sudden destruction at the second coming of the Lord is false. The only rapture in scripture is the meeting in the air (yes, which is the gathering together) which occurs at the same time the sudden destruction occurs I Thess. 4 and 5. We have confirmation in Rev.11:18, the same day the Lord judges and rewards his saints,servants and prophets,; is the same day he destroys those that destroyed the earth. The false rapture is a lie.
@solowarrior90 Anyone that doesn't heed the example of what God did to rebellious literal Israel is doomed to join figurative Israel "the church" which God will punish for continued sin and disobedience. God is no respect of persons from one generation to another; and if you are without correction then you are bastards, but because of God's love he corrects those that belong to him. solowarrior90 you are a son of Belial, those true to the Lord see right through your fake Christian appearance.
@solowarrior90 With all sincerity are you in a position to tell Jesus on how He would return? Stephen was killed; James was killed; Peter was killed and so was Paul. Are you a better bride than these men who literally lay their lives down for Jesus? Rapture Rapture Rapture. People spend their whole lives talking about the second coming of Jesus when about half the world's population is yet to hear about the first coming 2000 yrs ago.
@DJR551955 I'm sorry you missed that verse of scripture that is annotated throughout the entire video. The real question here is can you prove that the meeting in the air is separate from the sudden destruction I Thess. chapter 4 & 5, or can you prove the judgment and reward of the saints is not at the same time the Lord destroys them which destroyed the earth "the sudden destruction", Rev.11:15-19
@ChristLikeness100 Thank you friend, that's very encouraging, I hope I'll be able to put a movie up I've been working on since Jan. I think you'll like it. coming soon, God bless.
@JoBernard12oxen Looking forward to that, Brother. For now, if you don't mind, I nicked, er, I mean, SHARED this on my FB page! It's such a good vid. Blessings, Jen.
@ChristLikeness100 That's great. Well I produced the movie for the first time today, my movie maker is broke or something and I can't visually see it until its produced, and wouldn't you know it i put one little 1 minute clip in twice. I can't try it again until tomorrow but I'm uploading it for your viewing, I don't expect you to see the whole thing but any input will be great, I'll check back when I get to the library tomorrow watch?v=N9DVw_IZoeU thank you so much for your encouragement, bless
@JoBernard12oxen Oh it's peasy to fix movie maker - just slip into Progs & Features (the old Add/Remove Progs in Control Panel), call up Live Essentials and ask for a repair. Sorted! I'll see if I can do a link grab from here but as I remember it, YouTube won't take that kind of link. Got a title in case I can't get it? Would love to watch:) God bless you richly:)
No, I cannot tell the difference between those that are thrown in the Lake of Fire and those that are slain. Sorry. It's the same thing. Just using different language from a different perspective. You are creating imaginary distinctions that are not inspired. Revelation 20:9 says that fire came down out of heaven and devoured the wicked. This is the same thing as being thrown in the lake of fire. The fire that comes down from heaven covers the entire breadth of the earth (2 Peter 3:10-13)
@Lysimachus78 All right smartie pants, in all of scripture and esp. of the parables is said that the final end of the wicked is to be cast into the furnace of flames and fire, lake of fire or burned up; but look in Rev.22:15 when all the judgment are over and all is said and done "BEHOLD!" just outside the gates of that final heavenly home is none other than all the wicked of the world, so if all the talk about flames were real flames how can these people be able to continue in those sins? Auh
The concept is very simple: The Lake of Fire is at the end of the age (end of the millennium). This is hell-fire. It will consume the wicked, the Devil, and all his fallen angels. Each will burn in length depending on the light they rejected. Satan will burn the longest, but he will be utterly consumed (see Ezekiel 28:16-19). After the Lake of Fire has finished burning ALL the elements on the earth, then the fire will be removed and the New Earth will be Created before our Eyes.
@Lysimachus78 No, no, no, no; that's not the question: HOW CAN THOSE PEOPLE BE ABLE TO CONTINUE IN THOSE SINS JUST OUTSIDE THE GATES OF THAT FINAL HEAVENLY REWARD IF THEY ARE LITERALLY CONSUMED BY FIRE? That's the question?
@Jo, I think you failing to grasp the Great White Throne Judgment scene.
After the New Jerusalem settles on earth from heaven, God will give the wicked plenty of time to marshal up forces against the city. It may take even centuries! They will be standing outside the Gates of the New Jerusalem preparing to besiege the city, as Satan organizes them. You have to give them enough time to make weapons of war. After they surround the city, then the fire comes down from heaven!
@Lysimachus78 Rev.22:15 is ,AFTER the great white throne and the context of the city with gates is the heavenly city. Don't you get it, its talking about AFTER Satan is loosed AFTER he rallies the world against Christ and AFTER the fire rains down and destroys them. How can you miss that this New Jerusalem city is the one that comes down from heaven AFTER the earth is burned, they are outside the gates AFTER the earth is burned and AFTER the final judgment and AFTER it is said God lives with us.
@Jo, u accused me earlier by saying that Revelation is not in chronological order, but then now when it is convenient to your theology, now chronological order is important to u! Revelation 22 is simply repeating ELEMENTS of the events that transpired in chapter 20. John is just going back and ALLUDING to earlier events. It is a spiritual message to the Church of not being lost! Revelation 14:11 talks about the smoke of their torment. Should we conclude that there was fire way before chapter 20?
@Lysimachus78 The scripture did not use chronological order only, notice its talking about a city that can only exist AFTER the earth is destroyed. Don't you get it its the city of the New Jerusalem that exist after all the judgments have been handed out and after the earth is destroyed and after the new Jerusalem has come down out of heaven, if that somehow supported one of your points you would see it, you only see what you want to see Lysimachus78, I know you are intelligent enough to get it.
@Jo, if you want to go according to chronological order, you might as well include 5 Lakes of Fires (Rev 19:20; 20:10,14,15; 21:8).
Rev. 22:14-21 is a separate passages to the Churches (vs. 16). Are we to conclude that the messages to the Churches are delivered after the Lake of Fire and New Jerusalem? Rev. 22:15 is simply alluding to the "concept", that the unsaved will be outside the city (but they will receive the Second Death in the Lake of Fire), and the saved will be inside. That's all!
@Lysimachus78 "the unsaved will be outside the city (but they will receive the Second Death in the Lake of Fire)" Auh...Brains....You mean to tell me you don't see that these two statement contradict one another, come on!!!! the unsaved are out side the city but there are burned up LWOL I can just see their scorched carcasses committing whoremongery, smoking dope (sorceries) and being consumed in all that is not of God and sitting in the fire laughing and telling lies; what a wild imagination!!
All I'm saying is that the wicked will be outside the City Walls for a long time. Then later (note: later), they will be burned up. The passage in Revelation 22:15 is simply an allusion to before they are burned up. It's just going back retrospectively, and John is famous for doing this all throughout the book of Revelation. He repeats, enlarges, inserts, adds, backs up, all throughout Revelation.
@Lysimachus78 i'm sure if you really think this thing out, that you will realize there is absolutely no way to retrospect about sinful people being just outside the gate after they have been cast into the lake of fire unless the lake of fire means severe conditions outside the city. I can't just keep on trying to get you to see that if you are going to insincerely make up excuses, obviously you feel yourself above being wrong or something and you can't simply concede or even say i have no answer
@Lysimachus78 you didn't even bother to address the other confirmations that show the nations here during the reign of Christ, you didn't even acknowledge that Dan.7:10 says a thousand thousand minister to him and ten thousand thousand stand before him. If you can not be sincere on this, hummm what else are you blinded to. For the most part and unlike the false rapture this idea probably won't hurt a lot of people but it does say a lot about your character should you possess a doctrine that does
@Lysimachus78 fortunately enough for people like you @Lysimachus78 God has confirmation in scripture to help you see the light:
nation that worship not the Lord during his reign receive no rain Zach.14:16:21 your entire case is that all the wicked are killed on the Lord's day, hey another one is if the Lord is going to "rule the nations with a rod of iron" what nation will he rule that way his sheep maybe prophecy meant a "Shepards staff" of iron, lol, oh yeah, what about Isa.2:2-4 confirmation
@Jo, we have to put on our spiritual discernment glasses if we are going to understand these things. Remember, spiritual things are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor 2:14,15)
Eze.15:7And I will set my face against them; they shall go out from one fire, and another fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am the LORD,
I Cor.3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham,...... and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
@Jo, I believe that the Lake of Fire, Hell-Fire, and the Second Death are all the same thing. Just different ways to describe them. I do not believe in eternal torment. I believe that the wicked will burn up. Some wicked will burn longer than others, all depending and according to their works. But all end up dying in the Lake of Fire. Go to HellTruth [dot] com if you want to know what I believe about hell-fire. Luke 12:47-49 demonstrates that everyone will be punished at various lengths.
You cannot take Revelation 22:15 literally to mean that there are wicked outside the city after the Lake of Fire. John is just using a spiritual metaphor to help instill the urgency of being inside the city, and not outside. His allusion is simply going back retrospectively to when the wicked (the resurrected wicked in the second resurrection) are outside the City while the Saints are inside. You yourself admitted that Revelation is not written chronologically.
I will watch your videos Jo. However, I would also encourage u to watch Walter Veith's "Total Onslaught" series to get a full picture of where I'm coming from. This is Adventist Historicist eschatology, & it is all razor sharp with scripture backing.
amazingdiscoveries . tv/c/2/Total_Onslaught/
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Take out time to understand the Adventist view thoroughly before u attempt to refute it. Pr. Stephen Bohr and David Asscherick are two other individuals u will want to study & watch.
@Lysimachus78 "Take out time to understand the Adventist view thoroughly before u attempt to refute it" all the support for the sabbath day worship is some form of conclusion or interpretation, a shade of color here and there, an inference or an an implication, but nothing definite: I ask you therefore can you offer me any absolute definite's, not examples of what anyone Jew did but a definite command or even an certain tone of authoritative suggestion that any Gentile churches kept the sabbath
@Jo, the "Sabbath issue" with Adventism is only one tiny little piece to the puzzle. Like a tiny "cherry" on top. Adventism was built on massive eschatological and theological foundations that were laid by numerous Godly expositors of the past, and the unamimous conviction from the Holy Spirit that placed the brand of Antichrist on Popery. Adventism shines for its eschatology, it's understanding of the millennium, the 70 weeks, the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, the Sanctuary Message, etc. etc.
@Jo, no, Adventists didn't even form until 1864. 20 yrs after William Miller's failed predictions of the 2nd Advent of Christ in 1843/44. Miller thought that Jesus was coming based on Dan. 8:14, where it said that unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. According to the traditional anthropology of the day, Miller, all the rest of Protestantism, thought that the "earth" was the sanctuary. Therefore, they concluded that in 1843/44, Christ would return and cleanse the earth by fire.
@Jo, to make a long story short, later Adventists evaluated Miller's research & concluded that he was right about the date but wrong on the event. Jesus did not come to this earth in 1844. But He came to the Ancient of Days. This means that in 1844, Christ moved from the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary to the Most Holy Place (2nd apartment) to commence a final work of cleansing before coming back to this earth. This was the beginning of the antitypical "Yom Kippur" or "Day of Atonement"
@Lysimachus78 yeah but acts 3:21 says he "must" remain in the heavens until he returns "as he was taken" Acts 1:11 also Christ warned of those that say the Lord has come and confirmed that every eye shall see him when he come. Let me guess, you've heard this about 1 million, No, 2 million times, right, so I'm sure you have a very elaborate, well thought out recourse, but when its all said and done Christ only returns once, on the Lord's day when we meet him in air--the sudden destruction occurs
@Jo, I agree. that's what Adventists believe. Jesus will come back ONE time, for all men. That is their resounding message---they are adamantly opposed to the Rapture idea. Poor William Miller was basing his calculations on all that he had. He was well aware of those verses that no man knows the day nor hour, and that's why he was so reluctant to put an exact date, but he thought it was safe to put for the year. Poor Miller didn't understand there was a Heavenly Sanctuary.
@Jo, so in 1844, Jesus did not come back to earth. He only switched ministrations, from the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary to the Most Holy Place, to commence the wedding, the cleansing, or the antitypical day of atonement. It is a day of preparation for the return of Our Lord, just as the Israelites waited patiently on the typical day of atonement for the High Priest to come out and bless them--typical of the Second Coming. But nobody knows the day nor the hour, or even the year.
@Lysimachus78 Now I see you are saying Jesus came back to earth. Lets see here now, he leaves heaven where the Holy Place is to come to "earth" where the Most Holy place is, hummmm Lysimachus78 this is gettin awful fishy!
No. In 1844, Jesus leaves the Holy Place (where the 7 Golden Candlesticks, Altar of Incense, Table of Showbread are) of the Heavenly Sanctuary and goes into the Most Holy Place (where the Ark of the Covenant and Ten Commandments are), where the Father (Ancient of Days) is sitting. This is when the Little Horn/Beast is judged (from heaven). This is based on the understanding that the Beast ruled for 1260 years, from 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D.
@Lysimachus78 Yeah, but still, he come to earth to transition from the Holy Place to the Most Holy place? Doesn't make sense. Also, on several occasion NT says the Lord is sited at the right hand of the Father already, all this moving to places to commence (marriage) activities that don't even occur until after Satan's kingdom is cast down on the Lord's day return. It really looks and sounds like wire wrapped around the axial: have you ever happen to see literal wire wrapped around an axial?
@Jo, if you interpret Dan7 alone in chronological order u may naturally come to a different conclusion. But the Adventist interpretation does not just use Dan 7. One must compare Dan 7 with Rev 4 & 5, & 13 & 14 & 17, 18, 19, & 20 along with Dan 8 and 9, 11, and 12 in order to add every piece to the puzzle. Daniel 7 is not giving you all the details. Prophecy is like a jigsaw puzzle, and you must pull together all the pieces from all the chapters and verses to get a full and complete picture.
@Lysimachus78 The question was why does the Lord have to return to the earth to transition to a Holier place. Also what make you think I have not compared Dan.7 with all those verses. guess what Dan. 7 speaks of the same four kingdoms of Dan.8:8 from which the devil man comes, so 7 merely adds to chap 8 the details of the four interim kingdoms between the two end time world kingdoms of Rev.13 Hint: ten=completeness kings=kingdoms, which means-the 4 kingdoms are "organizationally complete" simple
The Lord does not return to the earth to transition to a Holier Place. I don't know what makes you think this. The Lord transitions to the Most Holy Place (an event we believed occurred in 1844) before He returns to the earth to claim His bride and take her to the marriage supper of the Lamb. When Christ comes back to the earth, He LEAVES the Most Holy Place in heaven to come down to earth.
@Lysimachus78 I want you to think about this personally, not for your position or the Adventist, You! It make it very clear if we add to prophecy the Lord will add to our the plagues written in prophecy: If I were you, this is just me, If I were you, even if I believed all these things, fine, but I would not teach except what is directly from scripture, no one needs to know what you believe nor should it be rendered to support your view, especially on prophecy, just a suggestion-bible verse only
@Lysimachus78 If the scripture doesn't specifically say the Lord is in these places what good does it to even mention that whole concept, leave off from that, that's confusion. I really would like to know if the devil man is destroyed of the Lord's coming how can these prophetic account possibly apply to history?
@Jo, only part of these events have transpired. But it is not finished. Remember, "I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld EVEN TILL the beast was slain, & his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame." (Dan 7:11). Vs 10 says that the books were opened. This is a heavenly judgment. But the beast is not destroyed UNTIL the 2nd coming. So Daniel is beholding many centuries here, 1st the judgment, then the burning flame.
@Lysimachus78 No one of these events have transpired, how can they transpire before the devil man ever comes on the scene, you obviously got the devil man mixed up with some Roman Catholic character or some other dude from history. Man you really need to stay in the bible, that's where you're getting off the path. Quite simply you are refusing that the Daniel kingdoms are end time kingdoms only. Just like God used Babylon, Sodom, Israel figuratively in scripture he uses Medo/Persia/Grecia/Iron
@Jo, now you see why we believe we are living during a time of judgment in heaven. It's called the "Investigative Judgment" which goes along with the Antitypical Day of Atonement, when Christ entered His final phase in the Heavenly Sanctuary in the Most Holy Place (where He's still at), to commence a work of vindication for the saints, and condemning the Little Horn. Finally, when Jesus comes back, the Little Horn will be destroyed.
@Jo, also notice that the judgment "sits" after the time, times, and dividing of time (1260 years during the Dark Ages). "But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [it] unto the end." (Dan 7:26).
1. First the judgment sits. (prior to second coming)
2. Then the dominion is taken away (during the 7 last plagues of course)
3. Then the horn will be consumed and destroyed (at the second coming)
@Lysimachus78 Sorry, wrong times times and dividing of times. the judgment of the Lord does not occur until he comes; nor is it set up. We saints are set up on thrones Rev.20:4 after we are raised with the Lord, meet in the air, destroy Satan's kingdom, and reign in judgment with the Lord. Natural just like breathing Lysimachus78, just like breathing; that's not a boast, but when its right, you don't have to wrest with verse, don't have to stretch things out context, don't have to go out bible
No, the Most Holy Place is not on earth. It is in heaven. Jesus has not come back yet. Only when He leaves the Most Holy Place (His work is not finished as High Priest yet) will He return back to the earth to gather all His children, and destroy the wicked.
@Jo, in other words, when Christ ascended to heaven after He rose from the tomb around 31 A.D., Jesus entered into the Heavenly Sanctuary to commence His High Priestly work that revolved around a Holy Place ministration. But in 1844, He moved to the Most Holy Place to commence the wedding before He returns at the Second Coming. This tells us just how soon Jesus will come. Remember, we must understand time in God's perspective, not our perspective.
@Jo, prior to Miller, there were approximately 75 other Protestant expositors around the globe and from different continents who came to the conclusion that the end of all things terminated in the 1840s, either 1843, 1844, or 1847 (all depending on when they started counting--but we've now pin-pointed the commencement of the 2300 to 457 B.C., bringing the terminus of the 2300 in 1844. Miller was just one man besides these 75 other authors and preachers. It was huge disappointment no doubt.
@Lysimachus78 Okay, aside from the disappointments; I seem to hear you say "Adventist" decided Jesus moved to the Ancient of days, what exactly is the Ancient of days with Adventist?
The Ancient of Days we understand as God the Father. But honestly, this has been the standard definition in Protestantism. The Father dwells in the Most Holy Place, above the Ark of the Covenant, between the two Cherubims (Isaiah 37:16). So in 1844, Christ presented Himself before the Father as He entered into the Second Chamber. We as Adventists believe the earthly sanctuary was patterned after the heavenly. There are 2 apartments. The Holy and the Most Holy.
@Lysimachus78 Well now lets see here Daniel says of the Ancient of days:
He comes in the clouds
He destroys the beast
he takes judgment
a thousand thousand minister unto him
gives a kingdom to one like the son of man (David)
and ten thousand thousand stand before him
Come now Lysimachus78 you already know who this is, you know. Why would even you continue in the traditions of the fathers of Adventism at the expense of even one proper interpretation?
@Jo, though is being judged, he will not be destroyed until Christ leaves the Most Holy Place. Remember, Daniel is covering a LARGE time span. We're dealing with centuries in only a few sentences. This is only understood once we recognize the "day-for-year" principle of Ezek 4:6 and Num 14:34. Remember, the 2300 days encompasses the time of the entire "vision" (chazon) in Dan 8. It encompasses the time of the Ram (Persia), Goat (Greece), & horns. These r kingdoms, requiring 2300 to be centuries
@Jo, it is difficult for me to comprehend how the Ancient of Days could possibly be Christ.
"I saw in the night visions, &, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, & came to the Ancient of days, & they brought him near before him." (Dan 7:13)
Here u are having the Son of Man (Christ) coming before the Ancient of Days. Unless u want to make Christ come before Himself? That doesn't make any sense. Remember, the Father got up from the Holy Place & sat in the Most Holy.
@Jo, then after the thrones were placed, the Father sat down in the Most Holy, then the Son of God moved after Him and came before the Father to present Himself.
@Lysimachus78 I told you son H1247 is merely descriptive of David, remember? God promised David an everlasting kingdom II Sam.7:13-14 This is not the son of God; son of man here means David, also just look at all the other things the Ancient of days does that can only apply to the Christ, not the Father, this is a very easy interpretation to figure unless you walk up to the scripture with belief in hand.
@Jo, but you are forgetting that David was simply a type of Christ. Jesus is the Son of David, so He comes through David's line. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant, the Davidic Promise. Jesus is the true David! He is the fulfillment of all those promises to David. The reason Jesus is called the "Son of man" in Dan 7 is because this was after He was born as a babe. But David has not ascended to the heavens (Acts 2:34), therefore, Jesus is the fulfillment of the Davidic Promise.:)
@Lysimachus78 since all the other descriptions of the Ancient of days falls squarely on Jesus and not the Father at all nor is he ever described as having a garment white as snow or the hair of his head like wool, but Jesus is Rev.1:14 It is a very very very natural fit to see the one that they (humbly) bring near to the Ancient of days as David especially seeing that the righteous will be raised with, rule and judge and reign with Christ, but oh yeah, you don't believe that either......Ahhuuuug
@Lysimachus78 the ram is destroyed by the goat which result in four kingdoms out of which the little horn evolves which is described as the dreadful king man of sin in the flesh who's kingdom is destroyed of the Prince of princes (Christ) again I ask the same ol question I asked before; If the devil man which is destroyed of Christ is in this account how can it refer to any thing in history, because his kingdom has not yet come? Are you going to keep ignoring my questions if so, huummm, Why?
@Jo, I'm not trying to ignore your questions. I guess I'm just having difficulty wrapping my brain around exactly what you are asking. I'm going to have to evaluate closely what your questions are before I can answer. Talk to you later brother.
@Lysimachus78 Hey there friend, just wondered if you got a chance to see "CHINA IN PROPHECY=RAM, AMERICA= GOAT TAKES CHINA 4 KINGDOMS=MAN OF SIN SMALL ARMY TAKES WORLD" I thought it would give you a little better reference point for the question I was asking. A somewhat shorter but less organized explanation of it is my "The Entire End Time Prophetic Message, Great Details (5min. foundation) Relax and Listen" and pt 2 of this video is still shorter but it addresses the highlights also China/best
We believe that both Daniel 7 and 8 parallel one another. Their both covering the same history, but from different angles. A good book to read is "1844 Made Simple" by Clifford Goldstein. Even if you disagree, you might as well try and become familiar with their teaching.
@Jo, so as much as I'd love to discuss the Sabbath, I'd prefer to stick to the discussion of eschatology. Adventist eschatology is built on the pillars of Historicism (not Futurism, not Dispensationalism, and not Preterism). Historicism was the hermeneutic of prophetic interpretation employed by ALL our reformers--Tyndale, Luther, Zwingli, Huss, Jerome, Knox, Ridley, Rogers, Calvin, Melanchthon, Wesley, Spurgeon, and many more.
@Lysimachus78 If you looked at part 2 of this false rapture series you would have seen the key to understanding all end time prophecy, in a word: the devil man of sin, dreadful vile king of fierce countenance shows up in all the prophetic accounts and rules in his kingdom and is destroyed of Christ at his coming, therefore all the prophetic accounts speaking of him must and can only be speaking of his future coming kingdom in the last days which is destroyed of Christ: what do make of this point
@dsim01 post 1 That's a good question dsim01, the mystery Babylon beast in Revelation 17 help me unlock the usage of this term "Babylon" as it is used throughout all of prophecy, I began to notice that Babylon is the name God has chosen to give all the kingdoms of Satan throughout scripture. Satan's world kingdoms are not the only vast empires that have ever existed but Satan's empires have the distinction of ruling over God's people at some point in time. please see post 2
@dsim01 the 2nd beast of Rev is destroyed of Christ when he comes. The promise of all of prophecy is that a fallen Babylon will never rise to power again, this is why Babylon is said to be desolate, many think this means the land where Babylon was, no it means the Babylon kingdoms mentioned throughout scripture, which is why Rome shall never rise to power again. Finally mystery Babylon represents that "great city" of Rev. which are all the sinful people of the world since the beginning of time.
@JoBernard12oxen I believe the scripture in Rev 17:18 is teaching us that Babylon the Great has a Kingdom over the Kings of the Earth in the last day, our time now. She will fall because the Kings of the Earth will turn against her and comepletly destroy her, and she will be desolate.
That is why the Kings of the Earth give there power over to the Wild Beast or the (End time World Kingdom) you mentioned which is also present in the last days our time now.
@dsim01 Ttwo end time beast in Rev.13 Rev.17:12 mentions ten horns ten kings = kingdoms, ten signifies complete, horns of a beast are used to fight with, horns is military, ten (completeness) horns (of military power) and ten (completeness) kings (powers/rulers) rule for a short time. In Dan.8 a ram is the first end time beast destroyed by the goat which breaks into four world kingdoms, out of one of them the devil man brings in the 2nd/final kingdom which falls at Christ return. see pt 2 video
@dsim01 The last great world kingdom of that devil man in the flesh imposes a worldwide identification system, creates an worldwide army army against all Christian organization in the entire earth, this is the final end time kingdom upon which the tribulation is poured out, at which time 2/3's of the sheep and little ones of the Shepard die and 1/3 are tested. Satan last kingdom is destroyed of Christ upon his return in all of prophecy, this kingdom will be so mighty only Christ can destroy it.
@JoBernard12oxen A careful research of Rev 17 will bring insight and understanding of the Identity of Babylon the Great. Also researching in the bible the City of babylon, why God caused that city to fall, and why the book of Revelation symbolically reference "Babylon the Great"? And why God causes that Empire to fall Rev 17:17
The Rapture certainly is false, and All people will witness the fall of Babylon the Great, the start of The Great Tribulation, because God judges her. The question is Why?
@dsim01 Remember, the six plagues/trumpets are judgments and "tribulation" poured out in Rev. on Satan's final end time world kingdom, after the sixth plague Rev16:15 Christ returns as a thief in the night to gather his saints from every generation Isa.13:1-5 to use them as weapons of his indignation to destroy Satan's kingdom. The tribulation is punishment on the world for their sins and also the church to correct and return them unto the Lord before that great day of the Lord's return.
Amen, tell it like it is! Dispensational-Pre-Tribulationalists are going to croak when they realize they are right in the middle of the final tribulation that will be poured out on this world. They will be found without a shelter. It's so sad. I continue to pray for them. When Jesus comes back, He will come back ONE TIME, for ALL! The righteous will be taken to heaven, and the wicked will receive sudden destruction! 1 Thess 4:16 - 5:3.
No- The Righteous will inherit the Earth, and the wicked will receive sudden destruction.
The heavenly hope is only reserved for the Saints (Annointed) ones of Christ, who will rule as Kings over the righteous here on Earth for a thousand years. Rev 5:10, Rev 20:6
The purpose of Christ return is to establish his heavenly kingdom here on Earth. He will destroy all Governments and his alone will stand to time indefinite. ..
With all due respect, I must disagree with you that there will be any population on the earth during the 1000 years. I do believe the meek will inherit the earth, but this is at the end of the millennium when the earth is made new, when the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven, and Christ puts his feet on the Mount of Olives. But during the 1000 years, the earth will be desolate, and it will "rest" from habitation. I have written a long article about this, and I will send it to u.
So while Christ's Second Coming is to destroy the kingdoms of this earth, and deliver the righteous, it is not until the end of the day of the Lord (the day of the Lord lasts for 1000 years) that the earthly reign commences.
I do not believe it can be scripturally established that the righteous inherit the earth the very moment of Christ's Second Coming. It is at Christ's Second Coming that all the saints are taken to heaven for 1000 years, while all the wicked are left desolate. Satan will be bound to this desolate, void earth, without anyone to tempt or manipulate, for 1000 years. This is Satan's perfect punishment. A 1000 year vacation on a planet that he destroyed.
Brothers and Sisters This is FALSE teaching, Jesus's last Words were for us to PREACH the GOOD News, there is no price to pay, Jesus Christ paid it ALL. When God closes the Dispensation of Grace, by taking his Spirit and Church from the earth, then those who are left behind, will endure the tribulation. I am the prophet of Amos 3:7. JESUS WILL BE BACK for HIS CHURCH, the WEEK of PASSOVER 2012
SoReadyToGoHome 5 days ago
@SoReadyToGoHome Brothers and Sisters, Like all false prophets they claim that the true prophetic word is a lie, they have always convinced God's people there will never be a time of collective punishment from God upon his people, they never prove there point by scripture, all they rely on are false delusions of escaping the the promised correction of God upon his kingdom (Christians) this false prophet doesn't even bother to attempt to refute the standing comment in this vid
JoBernard12oxen 5 days ago
@SoReadyToGoHome You need to look at my video "he that now letteth means, God is holding Satan until his time comes" that video will prove you haven't even studied your bible, all you have is a belief, and you aimlessly attempt to match scripture with your false belief, perhaps you should also see my "101 lies of the rapturist". Your view is so blown to pieces doctrinally it isn't even funny, Jesus comes after the trib. gathers his people and destroys Satan's kingdom; same time
JoBernard12oxen 5 days ago
@SoReadyToGoHome Hopefully some day you'll learn to read the full context of I Thess 4and 5 where the meeting in the air occurs at the same time as the sudden destruction; The sudden destruction comes "when" (after) they say (the whole world declares) peace and safety, as in after a time of great trouble (trib.) then Jesus as in Rev.16:15 comes as a thief in the night and consumes Satan's kingdom at his appearance when we are judged II Tim.4:1 and especially Rev.11:18 read it!
JoBernard12oxen 5 days ago
@SoReadyToGoHome This false prophet also has the signature of false prophets, "a time prediction of when the Lord's coming shall be, like all the other date setters this one too shall be proven wrong, when do they ever learn, and why do fools flock to their message? its a mystery to me SoReadyToGoHome you are an embarrassment to the kingdom of God and truth, and God has sworn that you and those like you will not be forgiven for the lost souls that follow you, I feel srry for you
JoBernard12oxen 5 days ago
@SoReadyToGoHome Were you any kind of prophet of God you would know the truth and stand up for it by the scripture, fact that you won't stand up for what you teach is proof positive you are like all the other false prophets, none of them use scripture, all of them claim to be God's prophet and all of them claim that God's people will not be punished.
JoBernard12oxen 5 days ago
@SoReadyToGoHome You have all the making of a false prophet i have all the making of a teacher of the word of God, so put up or shut up, but you can't because the truth is not in you just vain claims like all the other false prophets.
JoBernard12oxen 5 days ago
@SoReadyToGoHome The bible says "the wages of sin is death Rom.6:23 but you say there is no price to pay, the bible says work out your salvation in fear and trembling, the bible says that we should commit "the keeping of our soul" in well doings but you (false prophet) say Christ paid it all, yes he did, for those that love him and keep his commandments for he said "if you love me, keep my commandments, and furthermore repent lest I blot out your name out the Lambs book of life.
JoBernard12oxen 5 days ago
@jobernard12oxe
rev 16:15 is a good find. So many refuse to believe that he comes like a thief after the tribulation. They believe only a secret coming prior can be deemed like a thief.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
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@JoBernard12oxen Firt I'd like to say that you do look like the rock Dwayne Johnson lol Great video thanks for the information I recently came to this same realization that the rapture is not true as far as the way it's being teached, we are caught up at the last trumpet sound after the dead in Christ rise first then we who are alive. I would love to talk to you about this I have a few questions, if you have time my email is Gtiguy3@hotmail.com
DanielGlock26 2 weeks ago
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Just posted to Youtube, In a very powerful prophecy Jesus reveals that Obama is indeed the Antichrist! Jesus also reveals that the false prophet is known and is standing in the shadows.
Also hear a shocking False Rapture/Alien Invasion Warning from Jesus.
See my channel for these shocking prophecies!
StrangeSoundsInfo 3 weeks ago
he looks like Dwayne Johnson
lasers33 1 month ago
There is going to be a pre-trib rapture. It is not a lie. Read the Bible.
1954phyllis 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Information in this video is strictly Bible based, you can not prove that there will be a rapture before the Lord's day: Upon the Lord's day the kingdom of God will meet the Lord in the air at the same time the Lord destroys the kingdoms of this world in one sudden wave of destruction I Thess.5:1-3 at that time we will reign with Christ until Satan is loosed. There is no bible basis for a pre-trib rapture, none, you are dreaming, read your bible and wake up to reality.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen Nope!!!! That is totally ridiculous, why would Jesus come in the clouds to gather the sainsts and then make a u-turn and bring them back to earth. Really why bother? I don't know what Bible you are reading but it sure doesn't sound like the KJV. Of course there is a Bible basis for the pre-trib rapture. FYI I read my Bible every day. Why in this world don't you read 1 Thess. 4:16-17?
1954phyllis 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Don't stop at verse 17 and add your own time frame to it, keep reading, it then says that the day of the Lord (the same day we meet him in the air) comes when (after) they say peace and safety; as in after a time of great tribulation-the Lord comes with "sudden destruction". Also Rev 11:15-18 says he judges the saints, servants and prophets in the same day he destroys those that destroys the earth. There is no rapture "before" the day the Lord destroys Satan's kingdom.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Why would the bible say the Lord is going to suddenly destroy the kingdoms of this world at the same time we meet him in the air and at the same time he judges his people at the appearing of the Lord II Tim 4:1 if there is a separate rapture? The truth, there is no rapture "before" the day the Lord returns, he destroys Satan's kingdom, and reigns. And we reign with him on earth; even Rev.19:7-9 says the marriage of the Lamb is after the great whore kingdom is cast down.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Tell me now, is the bible lying about the sudden destruction on the Lord's day, Is the bible lying about the meeting in the air being on the Lord's day when he comes, when it says when (after) they say peace and safety, is the bible lying to us that the sudden destruction comes after? Does Rev.11:18 lie to us about the saints being judged when the Lord destroys those that destroyed the earth?
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Does Jesus lie to us about his coming and the gathering of the saints immediately after the tribulation of those days Matt.24:29? Why don't you answer the question of why the Lord is gathering the saints at the exact same time he is destroying the kingdoms of this world? why don't you read II Thess. where Paul tells the saints not to be deceived: that day (the Lord's day) will not come except (until) there be a departing from the faith (falling away) and Satan comes
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Why would the bible say the man of sin (Satan) is consumed at the appearing of the Lord and also say we are judged at the appearing of the Lord if it were not so? Why would Jesus warn us that false prophets will teach that the Lord comes "before the time" Matt.24:26 is Jesus lying, if not why does he prophesy that they will teach he comes before the time is Jesus a false prophet? I think you should answer these questions they are perfectly valid questions.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen Sir the saints throughout the ages will appear with Jesus at the battle of Armaggedon. You are forgetting about all those saints that will be beheaded during the tribulation. Jesus was talking about those false prophets that would claim that they are Jesus but aren't. Jesus never lied. No Jesus is not a false prophet. I say to you read the Bible in it you will find the truth.
1954phyllis 2 months ago
@1954phyllis The battle of Armageddon is in Rev.16, Rev 16:15 says the Lord comes as a thief in the night (just like in I Thess.5:2-3) AFTER the six plague of tribulation. Now isn't that amazing we are assembled with him to battle and destroy the kingdoms of this world after the tribulation plagues and at the same time we meet him in the air. I think you are starting to get it, The meeting in the air is at the same time the Lord destroys Satan's kingdom after the tribulation, Mame
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis There is no rapture or meeting of the saints in all of scripture that occurs before the day the Lord comes, when at his appearing the saints meet him in the air, and are judged, Satan is consumed, the kingdoms of this world are destroyed, and the saint reign with Christ and the marriage supper occurs after Satan's kingdom is cast down after the tribulation. There is no rapture before the tribulation or during. the meeting in the air occurs when sudden destruction comes
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis You don't read your bible, you read into your bible what you what it to say. You claim there is a pretibulation rapture. The bible says that Christ kingdom is an everlasting kingdom II Pet.1.:1 Now just what does everlasting mean to you, that it ceases from the earth and then returns? or does everlasting mean everlasting as in Christ kingdom is always in the earth and that God is able to protect his own regardless of what he brings upon the earth.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis So what is the direct result of your deception that a pre-tribulation rapture will occur. In a future time all the world will be forced to accept a worldwide identification system, for which the saints will resist, the resolve of those expecting a rapture before the tribulation will collapse upon the tribulation when they see even the Shepard, sheep and the little ones of the Lord are subject to the trib. Zach.13:7-9 who are the sheep and the little ones of the Lord?
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis The Lord will have mercy upon them that had mercy and judgment upon them that deceived his little ones. You have violated the heritage of the Lord and polluted the kingdom of God with lies. many will lose their soul on account of your message and they will stand in judgment before the Lord and say you taught them these lies. As a result you will not find grace and mercy in your hour of need nor the salvation and forgiveness you so earnestly expect.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis God has sworn and can not lie, though the truth come to you , you can not receive it, because the Lord can not lie: he said those that hate the truth and love lies will have strong delusion that they should believe a lie. Therefore it is not possible for you to receive the truth because God himself is holding you under the delusion of the lie you have given yourself unto, Why? because you have have deeply damaged the body of Christ and injured many saints unto death.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen Say what? How in this world have I damaged the body of Christ and injured many saints unto death? FYI I am totally going by what the Bible says. It is obvious to me that you pick and choose what you want to believe in the Bible. Haven't you read 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17? It is obvious that there is going to be a pre-trib rapture. Be ready because it will be horrible for you if you have believed a lie instead of me.
1954phyllis 2 months ago
@1954phyllis I gave you all the bible proof you need, I made a perfect case from scripture that the meeting in the air (rapture) only occurs upon the Lord's day when the sudden destruction is brought upon Satan's kingdom. I proved that over and over the meeting in the air is not before the day of he Lord only you are so deceived you can not receive it no matter how plain the scripture makes it. you are under strong delusion, I have preached true word of God you pervert the gospel.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis I challenge you prove to me using the scripture that the meeting in the air is before the sudden destruction I Thess 4 and 5. Prove to me using the bible that the saints are judged before the same day the Lord destroys those that destroyed the earth Rev.11:18. Prove the marriage of the Lamb is before the kingdom of Satan is cast down Rev.19:7-9. Prove Christ kingdom is not everlasting, prove that the Lord comes immediately "before" the tribulation Matt.24:29 You can't!
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis You can't and haven't refuted any of the challenges I posed to you from scripture. Your version of the bible is incomplete and added to by your own beliefs. You have not proven any of the real truth of scripture that I presented as false or wrong. Would you be so foolish to say the meeting in the air does not happen upon the Lord's day after they say peace and safety and when the sudden destruction comes on them appointed to the wrath of God?
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Would you be so foolish to say the marriage supper of the Lord is before Satan's kingdom is cast down? All you do is keep saying the same ol lie over and over and you like to add stuff like of course its going to happen, like you're trying to make it sound like its so matter of fact. well a matter of fact you are a lair, and the truth is not in you. the rapture won't happen before its time and its time is when the Lord returns and destroys Satan's kingdom.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis The tribulation is coming on Satan's kingdom because he will wear out the saints (Christians) and will persecute them and many of them will die for the name of Christ Rev.14:13 , but many saints will fall away and the Lord begs them to come out of the great whore kingdom in Rev.18:4 but the Lord returns, we meet him in the air and he suddenly destroys Satan's kingdom. i dare you to say it is not so. To say the meeting in the sir is before the sudden destruction is sin
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Are you saying the meeting in the air (rapture) does not happen at the same time the sudden destruction comes and the man of sin is consumed at the appearing of the Lord?I Thess 4 and 5 are you saying we (Christians) won't be judged at the appearing of the Lord at the same time the Lord destroys those that destroyed the earth Rev.11:18. You can't have it both ways, the rapture is before the sudden destruction or during the sudden destruction, what does the bible say?
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen The rapture takes place rightr before the tribulation.The saints that are raptured will be judged during the tribulation. If you would read the Bible you would know this. And another thing is why do you think that the church isn't mentioned after the 4th chapter of Revelation.
1954phyllis 2 months ago
@1954phyllis you still avoid the questions do you think that just because you say "The rapture takes place rightr before the tribulation" that God will change the bible to suit your wishes. You don't even go about using the bible to prove your point, you just say something and expect it to be true, that's silly, the bible says the saints are judged when the Lord destroys the kingdoms of this world did you read Rev.11:18? read? the Lord destroys Satan's kingdom after the tribulation.
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Rev.5:8 these saints sing to the Lamb that was slain
to redeem them to God by his blood out of every
nation and they are kings and priest (as in a royal
priesthood) these are “Christians”
Rev.5:13 every creature in heaven and earth and
under the earth are praising God includes Christians
Rev.7:14 these are they which came out of great
tribulation(distress) and have wash their robes and
made them white in the blood of the Lamb, these
are “Christians”!
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Rev.8:3 the prayers of ALL saints are offered: all
saints includes Christians
Rev.11:1 Those that figuratively are the holy city
that worship in the figurative temple of God, and
are not of the figurative Gentiles (which are abusing
the city of God) vs 18 and this is the “time of the
dead”(resurrection) vrs. 15
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis and we shall reign with
him forever as in Rev.20:4 Con't vrs. 18 the time of
giving rewards to the servants and prophets and the
saint that fear the name of the Lord at his coming
and reign and judge the nations as said in
I Cor.6:2 these are Christians
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Rev.12: reveals the Lord is born by the woman
(through the kingdom of God) and is caught up and
the woman (the kingdom of God “the church”)
escapes into that spiritual wilderness where she is
nurtured for a time. When the red dragon is cast out
of heaven he goes on to make war with the remnant
of her seed which keep the commandments of
God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ!!!
(the church in the wilderness Acts7:38) these are
Christians
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Rev.13:6 The beast open his mouth to blaspheme
God and God's tabernacle (church) and those that
are written in the Lamb's book of life are
Christians
Rev.14:4 These are they which are figuratively
clean (virgins) and did not compromise the word of
the Lamb but followed his word in the most sincere
way, they are redeemed from among men being the
firstfruits unto God and the Lamb, they are
Christians
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Rev.15:2 John saw those that had gotten the victory
over the beast, his image, the mark, and the number
of his name and sing Moses victory song and the
victory song of the Lamb to the king of all saints
these faithfully serving God included those that
sing the victory song of the Lamb, Christians
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Rev.16:5,6 those saints of “the Lord” “which is,
and was and shalt be” (AS IN HE HAS NOT YET
COME) it is those saints and prophets which the
earth has shed their blood; these shall be gathered
of the Lord to the final battle: these are Christians
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis Rev.16:15 here it is said between the sixth vial and
seventh vial of tribulation plague “I come as a
thief” and even though this is not in red letter it is
Jesus that says “I comes as a thief”: who are those
saints that should watch and keep their garment?
They are watching for Christ coming as a thief in
the night, making ready so that day should not take
them unawares; who are they? You know who they
are, they are Christians …........I'm Lovin' It :)
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@1954phyllis The marriage supper is either before Satan's kingdom is thrown down or after, what does the bible say? answer the question. Who are the sheep and little ones and Shepards of the Lord, why does it say 2/3rds of the saints die in the tribulation and 1/3rd are severely tested if its not so Zach.13:7-9 Why does Jesus speak of his coming and the gathering of the elect (church) immediately after the tribulation? why don't you answer these questions? what's wrong with you?
JoBernard12oxen 2 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen The marriage suupper of the Lamb is right after the rapture of the saved saints. Those saints that die during the tribulation are the ones that are saved and beheaded because of their love for Christ. Jesus did not say that He would gather His saints immediately after the tribulation. Read the Bible.
1954phyllis 2 months ago
an EXTREMELY GOOD explanation you touched on alot of points that im taking back with me to add to my list of reasons why we are going through the tribbulation.
EESleepingForest 3 months ago
@EESleepingForest Thank you friend, its amazing that an unbiased, clear headed, conscientious approach to the Word make it plain to see that the meeting in the air occurs when the Lord returns to destroy the kingdoms of this world, at which time he naturally would have to gather the saints and assemble them with himself as he reigns from Jerusalem. All this is very plain to them which do not hold preconceived notions about the false rapture. Thanks to you and all those that confirm this is so.
JoBernard12oxen 3 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen yeah i guess its hard for some people to accept even when you read scripture to them in plain understandable context to them because some of them have believed this for years and so have their parents so they dont find it easy to let go of what they've stuck to for so many years. I use to be a rapture believer, but that was because thats what they always told me at church. and i watched the left behind movies
EESleepingForest 3 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen UNTILL i saw "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". then things began toclick somewhat, the rapture itself had always everything so confusing to me, why would God say i am telling you everything that is going to happen in the time of the end, Revelations, a book "revealing" the co,ing of Jesus Christ and Jesus himself said i have told you "EVERYTHING" beforehand yes, Revelations seems to miss out on adding that 1/3 of the worlds population suddenly disappears?
EESleepingForest 3 months ago
It's pretty interesting how people think the Word of God lies about the rapture. It's really sad to hear stuff like that.
harrypotterification 4 months ago
@harrypotterification Man lies about the timing of the rapture, there shall be a meeting in the air, a "rapture" if you will, but that rapture only occurs at the exact same time of the sudden destruction of Satan's end time world kingdom; read I Thess. 4 "and" 5 the meeting in the air is inseparable from the sudden destruction. Also Rev.11:18 the judgment of the saints of God is at his appearing when he also destroys them which destroys the earth. There is no rapture before the Lord's return.
JoBernard12oxen 4 months ago
End of Times Prophecy
Revelation
1 Corinthians 15:42-58,
2 Corinthians5:1-10,
2 Peter 3,
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
2 Thessalonians 1:1-12, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Joel 1-3,
Zechariah, Ezekiel 38, Daniel
Sparda849 4 months ago
@Sparda849
1 Cor. 15:42-58, we are changed at the last trumpet-Rev.11:18 the saints are rewarded at the same time the Lord destroys the wicked.
2 Cor. 5:1-10, we appear before the judgment seat of Christ at Christ appearing
II Tim.4:1
2 Pet. 3, earth destroyed is the last part of the Lord's day after his reign on earth.
1 Thess. 4:13-18, 1 Thess. 5:1-11 the meeting in the air is at the same time Satan is consumed at the Lord's coming
JoBernard12oxen 4 months ago
@Sparda849
2 Thess. 1:1-12, 2, 2:1-12 when Jesus comes with fire/angels taking vengeance (judgment-destruction)
Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Joel 1-3, Jesus illustrate events leading up to world wide persecution of the spiritual Jerusalem, which is the desolation of abomination. The tribulation begins after the persecution begins "But before all these"
Zach.13:7-9 2/3's of the Shepard, sheep and the little ones die, and 1/3 are severely tested; the sheep are Christians, Christ followers
JoBernard12oxen 4 months ago
52 It will happen suddenly, quicker than the blink of an eye. At the sound of the last trumpet the dead will be raised. We will all be changed, so that we will never die again. 53 Our dead and decaying bodies will be changed into bodies that won't die or decay. 54The bodies we now have are weak and can die. But they will be changed into bodies that are eternal. Then the Scriptures will come true,
Sparda849 4 months ago
1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50 My friends, I want you to know that our bodies of flesh and blood will decay. This means that they cannot share in God's kingdom, which lasts forever. 51 I will explain a mystery to you. Not every one of us will die, but we will all be changed.
Sparda849 4 months ago
Rapture is a big fat lie.
Sparda849 4 months ago
Thank you so much, thank you Lord for this blessed message. My heart is terribly broken as I watch so many Christians seek after false signs and wonders, seeking a "revelation" - rejecting sound doctrine, and instead embracing a lie. The Bible says God will send them all STRONG DELUSION, and so He has. They are virtually all believing the lie.
misshotyoga 4 months ago
@misshotyoga Thank you, its encouraging to see that not all are consumed by the lies, I appreciate your pure heart and your Christian devotion, may God so richly bless you always.
JoBernard12oxen 4 months ago
@preceptafterprecept The meeting in the air occurs at the exact same time as the sudden destruction: the sudden destruction occurs upon the "day of the Lord" which yes by the way is also signified as the seventh trumpet, which is the last trumpet of Revelation. The false rapture is this lie that claims the Lord comes before the second coming and raptures all the good Christians to heaven before or during the tribulation. May I suggest you actually view this presentation before commenting.
JoBernard12oxen 5 months ago
@preceptafterprecept A so called rapture that occurs "before" the sudden destruction at the second coming of the Lord is false. The only rapture in scripture is the meeting in the air (yes, which is the gathering together) which occurs at the same time the sudden destruction occurs I Thess. 4 and 5. We have confirmation in Rev.11:18, the same day the Lord judges and rewards his saints,servants and prophets,; is the same day he destroys those that destroyed the earth. The false rapture is a lie.
JoBernard12oxen 5 months ago
Anyone who believes that Jesus would want a beaten up, bruised and Bride is a moron.
solowarrior90 5 months ago
@solowarrior90 Anyone that doesn't heed the example of what God did to rebellious literal Israel is doomed to join figurative Israel "the church" which God will punish for continued sin and disobedience. God is no respect of persons from one generation to another; and if you are without correction then you are bastards, but because of God's love he corrects those that belong to him. solowarrior90 you are a son of Belial, those true to the Lord see right through your fake Christian appearance.
JoBernard12oxen 5 months ago
@solowarrior90 With all sincerity are you in a position to tell Jesus on how He would return? Stephen was killed; James was killed; Peter was killed and so was Paul. Are you a better bride than these men who literally lay their lives down for Jesus? Rapture Rapture Rapture. People spend their whole lives talking about the second coming of Jesus when about half the world's population is yet to hear about the first coming 2000 yrs ago.
73geneva 5 months ago
I'm sorry You feel this way. But have you any bible scripture to back up what you are saying?
DJR551955 6 months ago
@DJR551955 I'm sorry you missed that verse of scripture that is annotated throughout the entire video. The real question here is can you prove that the meeting in the air is separate from the sudden destruction I Thess. chapter 4 & 5, or can you prove the judgment and reward of the saints is not at the same time the Lord destroys them which destroyed the earth "the sudden destruction", Rev.11:15-19
JoBernard12oxen 6 months ago
This is the best video I've seen on this subject. What a blessing. All Christians should see it.
ChristLikeness100 6 months ago
@ChristLikeness100 Thank you friend, that's very encouraging, I hope I'll be able to put a movie up I've been working on since Jan. I think you'll like it. coming soon, God bless.
JoBernard12oxen 6 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen Looking forward to that, Brother. For now, if you don't mind, I nicked, er, I mean, SHARED this on my FB page! It's such a good vid. Blessings, Jen.
ChristLikeness100 6 months ago
@ChristLikeness100 That's great. Well I produced the movie for the first time today, my movie maker is broke or something and I can't visually see it until its produced, and wouldn't you know it i put one little 1 minute clip in twice. I can't try it again until tomorrow but I'm uploading it for your viewing, I don't expect you to see the whole thing but any input will be great, I'll check back when I get to the library tomorrow watch?v=N9DVw_IZoeU thank you so much for your encouragement, bless
JoBernard12oxen 6 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen Oh it's peasy to fix movie maker - just slip into Progs & Features (the old Add/Remove Progs in Control Panel), call up Live Essentials and ask for a repair. Sorted! I'll see if I can do a link grab from here but as I remember it, YouTube won't take that kind of link. Got a title in case I can't get it? Would love to watch:) God bless you richly:)
ChristLikeness100 6 months ago
Are you saying that when Jesus rose, there was no rapture?
wordword31 7 months ago
Are you saying that the tribulation has not begun?
wordword31 7 months ago
I think it's down right sickening of you to refure to Yahuvah in the greek as God
I think it's sickening that you promote the greco roman pagan sun worshiping terrorist cult of christianity.
I think it's sickening how you refure to Yahushua Ha Moshiach in the greco latin words jesus christ.
I think it's sickening and disgusting that you feel Yahuvah would ever commit the sin of wrath , you torahless attention seeking pagan.
Other than those items , I'd say you got things right.
azkeyz 7 months ago
No, I cannot tell the difference between those that are thrown in the Lake of Fire and those that are slain. Sorry. It's the same thing. Just using different language from a different perspective. You are creating imaginary distinctions that are not inspired. Revelation 20:9 says that fire came down out of heaven and devoured the wicked. This is the same thing as being thrown in the lake of fire. The fire that comes down from heaven covers the entire breadth of the earth (2 Peter 3:10-13)
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 All right smartie pants, in all of scripture and esp. of the parables is said that the final end of the wicked is to be cast into the furnace of flames and fire, lake of fire or burned up; but look in Rev.22:15 when all the judgment are over and all is said and done "BEHOLD!" just outside the gates of that final heavenly home is none other than all the wicked of the world, so if all the talk about flames were real flames how can these people be able to continue in those sins? Auh
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo
The concept is very simple: The Lake of Fire is at the end of the age (end of the millennium). This is hell-fire. It will consume the wicked, the Devil, and all his fallen angels. Each will burn in length depending on the light they rejected. Satan will burn the longest, but he will be utterly consumed (see Ezekiel 28:16-19). After the Lake of Fire has finished burning ALL the elements on the earth, then the fire will be removed and the New Earth will be Created before our Eyes.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 No, no, no, no; that's not the question: HOW CAN THOSE PEOPLE BE ABLE TO CONTINUE IN THOSE SINS JUST OUTSIDE THE GATES OF THAT FINAL HEAVENLY REWARD IF THEY ARE LITERALLY CONSUMED BY FIRE? That's the question?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
Comment removed
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, I think you failing to grasp the Great White Throne Judgment scene.
After the New Jerusalem settles on earth from heaven, God will give the wicked plenty of time to marshal up forces against the city. It may take even centuries! They will be standing outside the Gates of the New Jerusalem preparing to besiege the city, as Satan organizes them. You have to give them enough time to make weapons of war. After they surround the city, then the fire comes down from heaven!
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Rev.22:15 is ,AFTER the great white throne and the context of the city with gates is the heavenly city. Don't you get it, its talking about AFTER Satan is loosed AFTER he rallies the world against Christ and AFTER the fire rains down and destroys them. How can you miss that this New Jerusalem city is the one that comes down from heaven AFTER the earth is burned, they are outside the gates AFTER the earth is burned and AFTER the final judgment and AFTER it is said God lives with us.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, u accused me earlier by saying that Revelation is not in chronological order, but then now when it is convenient to your theology, now chronological order is important to u! Revelation 22 is simply repeating ELEMENTS of the events that transpired in chapter 20. John is just going back and ALLUDING to earlier events. It is a spiritual message to the Church of not being lost! Revelation 14:11 talks about the smoke of their torment. Should we conclude that there was fire way before chapter 20?
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 The scripture did not use chronological order only, notice its talking about a city that can only exist AFTER the earth is destroyed. Don't you get it its the city of the New Jerusalem that exist after all the judgments have been handed out and after the earth is destroyed and after the new Jerusalem has come down out of heaven, if that somehow supported one of your points you would see it, you only see what you want to see Lysimachus78, I know you are intelligent enough to get it.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
Comment removed
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, if you want to go according to chronological order, you might as well include 5 Lakes of Fires (Rev 19:20; 20:10,14,15; 21:8).
Rev. 22:14-21 is a separate passages to the Churches (vs. 16). Are we to conclude that the messages to the Churches are delivered after the Lake of Fire and New Jerusalem? Rev. 22:15 is simply alluding to the "concept", that the unsaved will be outside the city (but they will receive the Second Death in the Lake of Fire), and the saved will be inside. That's all!
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 "the unsaved will be outside the city (but they will receive the Second Death in the Lake of Fire)" Auh...Brains....You mean to tell me you don't see that these two statement contradict one another, come on!!!! the unsaved are out side the city but there are burned up LWOL I can just see their scorched carcasses committing whoremongery, smoking dope (sorceries) and being consumed in all that is not of God and sitting in the fire laughing and telling lies; what a wild imagination!!
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo,
All I'm saying is that the wicked will be outside the City Walls for a long time. Then later (note: later), they will be burned up. The passage in Revelation 22:15 is simply an allusion to before they are burned up. It's just going back retrospectively, and John is famous for doing this all throughout the book of Revelation. He repeats, enlarges, inserts, adds, backs up, all throughout Revelation.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 i'm sure if you really think this thing out, that you will realize there is absolutely no way to retrospect about sinful people being just outside the gate after they have been cast into the lake of fire unless the lake of fire means severe conditions outside the city. I can't just keep on trying to get you to see that if you are going to insincerely make up excuses, obviously you feel yourself above being wrong or something and you can't simply concede or even say i have no answer
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 you didn't even bother to address the other confirmations that show the nations here during the reign of Christ, you didn't even acknowledge that Dan.7:10 says a thousand thousand minister to him and ten thousand thousand stand before him. If you can not be sincere on this, hummm what else are you blinded to. For the most part and unlike the false rapture this idea probably won't hurt a lot of people but it does say a lot about your character should you possess a doctrine that does
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 fortunately enough for people like you @Lysimachus78 God has confirmation in scripture to help you see the light:
nation that worship not the Lord during his reign receive no rain Zach.14:16:21 your entire case is that all the wicked are killed on the Lord's day, hey another one is if the Lord is going to "rule the nations with a rod of iron" what nation will he rule that way his sheep maybe prophecy meant a "Shepards staff" of iron, lol, oh yeah, what about Isa.2:2-4 confirmation
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, we have to put on our spiritual discernment glasses if we are going to understand these things. Remember, spiritual things are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor 2:14,15)
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 The figurative fire of punishment:
Eze.15:7And I will set my face against them; they shall go out from one fire, and another fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am the LORD,
I Cor.3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham,...... and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 nation that worship not the Lord during his reign receive no rain Zach.14:16:21
is a lake of fire
punishment
or death? Rev.22:15
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, I believe that the Lake of Fire, Hell-Fire, and the Second Death are all the same thing. Just different ways to describe them. I do not believe in eternal torment. I believe that the wicked will burn up. Some wicked will burn longer than others, all depending and according to their works. But all end up dying in the Lake of Fire. Go to HellTruth [dot] com if you want to know what I believe about hell-fire. Luke 12:47-49 demonstrates that everyone will be punished at various lengths.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
I mean, every wicked person will be punished at various lengths, not everyone of course, but I'm sure you knew what I meant.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo
You cannot take Revelation 22:15 literally to mean that there are wicked outside the city after the Lake of Fire. John is just using a spiritual metaphor to help instill the urgency of being inside the city, and not outside. His allusion is simply going back retrospectively to when the wicked (the resurrected wicked in the second resurrection) are outside the City while the Saints are inside. You yourself admitted that Revelation is not written chronologically.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
I will watch your videos Jo. However, I would also encourage u to watch Walter Veith's "Total Onslaught" series to get a full picture of where I'm coming from. This is Adventist Historicist eschatology, & it is all razor sharp with scripture backing.
amazingdiscoveries . tv/c/2/Total_Onslaught/
(remove spaces)
Take out time to understand the Adventist view thoroughly before u attempt to refute it. Pr. Stephen Bohr and David Asscherick are two other individuals u will want to study & watch.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 "Take out time to understand the Adventist view thoroughly before u attempt to refute it" all the support for the sabbath day worship is some form of conclusion or interpretation, a shade of color here and there, an inference or an an implication, but nothing definite: I ask you therefore can you offer me any absolute definite's, not examples of what anyone Jew did but a definite command or even an certain tone of authoritative suggestion that any Gentile churches kept the sabbath
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, the "Sabbath issue" with Adventism is only one tiny little piece to the puzzle. Like a tiny "cherry" on top. Adventism was built on massive eschatological and theological foundations that were laid by numerous Godly expositors of the past, and the unamimous conviction from the Holy Spirit that placed the brand of Antichrist on Popery. Adventism shines for its eschatology, it's understanding of the millennium, the 70 weeks, the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14, the Sanctuary Message, etc. etc.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 yeah, but wasn't it the Adventist that got it wrong already a couple few time when calculating the"advent" of Christ?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, no, Adventists didn't even form until 1864. 20 yrs after William Miller's failed predictions of the 2nd Advent of Christ in 1843/44. Miller thought that Jesus was coming based on Dan. 8:14, where it said that unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. According to the traditional anthropology of the day, Miller, all the rest of Protestantism, thought that the "earth" was the sanctuary. Therefore, they concluded that in 1843/44, Christ would return and cleanse the earth by fire.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, to make a long story short, later Adventists evaluated Miller's research & concluded that he was right about the date but wrong on the event. Jesus did not come to this earth in 1844. But He came to the Ancient of Days. This means that in 1844, Christ moved from the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary to the Most Holy Place (2nd apartment) to commence a final work of cleansing before coming back to this earth. This was the beginning of the antitypical "Yom Kippur" or "Day of Atonement"
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 yeah but acts 3:21 says he "must" remain in the heavens until he returns "as he was taken" Acts 1:11 also Christ warned of those that say the Lord has come and confirmed that every eye shall see him when he come. Let me guess, you've heard this about 1 million, No, 2 million times, right, so I'm sure you have a very elaborate, well thought out recourse, but when its all said and done Christ only returns once, on the Lord's day when we meet him in air--the sudden destruction occurs
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, I agree. that's what Adventists believe. Jesus will come back ONE time, for all men. That is their resounding message---they are adamantly opposed to the Rapture idea. Poor William Miller was basing his calculations on all that he had. He was well aware of those verses that no man knows the day nor hour, and that's why he was so reluctant to put an exact date, but he thought it was safe to put for the year. Poor Miller didn't understand there was a Heavenly Sanctuary.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, so in 1844, Jesus did not come back to earth. He only switched ministrations, from the Holy Place of the Heavenly Sanctuary to the Most Holy Place, to commence the wedding, the cleansing, or the antitypical day of atonement. It is a day of preparation for the return of Our Lord, just as the Israelites waited patiently on the typical day of atonement for the High Priest to come out and bless them--typical of the Second Coming. But nobody knows the day nor the hour, or even the year.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Now I see you are saying Jesus came back to earth. Lets see here now, he leaves heaven where the Holy Place is to come to "earth" where the Most Holy place is, hummmm Lysimachus78 this is gettin awful fishy!
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo,
No. In 1844, Jesus leaves the Holy Place (where the 7 Golden Candlesticks, Altar of Incense, Table of Showbread are) of the Heavenly Sanctuary and goes into the Most Holy Place (where the Ark of the Covenant and Ten Commandments are), where the Father (Ancient of Days) is sitting. This is when the Little Horn/Beast is judged (from heaven). This is based on the understanding that the Beast ruled for 1260 years, from 538 A.D. to 1798 A.D.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Yeah, but still, he come to earth to transition from the Holy Place to the Most Holy place? Doesn't make sense. Also, on several occasion NT says the Lord is sited at the right hand of the Father already, all this moving to places to commence (marriage) activities that don't even occur until after Satan's kingdom is cast down on the Lord's day return. It really looks and sounds like wire wrapped around the axial: have you ever happen to see literal wire wrapped around an axial?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, if you interpret Dan7 alone in chronological order u may naturally come to a different conclusion. But the Adventist interpretation does not just use Dan 7. One must compare Dan 7 with Rev 4 & 5, & 13 & 14 & 17, 18, 19, & 20 along with Dan 8 and 9, 11, and 12 in order to add every piece to the puzzle. Daniel 7 is not giving you all the details. Prophecy is like a jigsaw puzzle, and you must pull together all the pieces from all the chapters and verses to get a full and complete picture.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 The question was why does the Lord have to return to the earth to transition to a Holier place. Also what make you think I have not compared Dan.7 with all those verses. guess what Dan. 7 speaks of the same four kingdoms of Dan.8:8 from which the devil man comes, so 7 merely adds to chap 8 the details of the four interim kingdoms between the two end time world kingdoms of Rev.13 Hint: ten=completeness kings=kingdoms, which means-the 4 kingdoms are "organizationally complete" simple
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo
The Lord does not return to the earth to transition to a Holier Place. I don't know what makes you think this. The Lord transitions to the Most Holy Place (an event we believed occurred in 1844) before He returns to the earth to claim His bride and take her to the marriage supper of the Lamb. When Christ comes back to the earth, He LEAVES the Most Holy Place in heaven to come down to earth.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 I want you to think about this personally, not for your position or the Adventist, You! It make it very clear if we add to prophecy the Lord will add to our the plagues written in prophecy: If I were you, this is just me, If I were you, even if I believed all these things, fine, but I would not teach except what is directly from scripture, no one needs to know what you believe nor should it be rendered to support your view, especially on prophecy, just a suggestion-bible verse only
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 If the scripture doesn't specifically say the Lord is in these places what good does it to even mention that whole concept, leave off from that, that's confusion. I really would like to know if the devil man is destroyed of the Lord's coming how can these prophetic account possibly apply to history?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, only part of these events have transpired. But it is not finished. Remember, "I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld EVEN TILL the beast was slain, & his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame." (Dan 7:11). Vs 10 says that the books were opened. This is a heavenly judgment. But the beast is not destroyed UNTIL the 2nd coming. So Daniel is beholding many centuries here, 1st the judgment, then the burning flame.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 No one of these events have transpired, how can they transpire before the devil man ever comes on the scene, you obviously got the devil man mixed up with some Roman Catholic character or some other dude from history. Man you really need to stay in the bible, that's where you're getting off the path. Quite simply you are refusing that the Daniel kingdoms are end time kingdoms only. Just like God used Babylon, Sodom, Israel figuratively in scripture he uses Medo/Persia/Grecia/Iron
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, now you see why we believe we are living during a time of judgment in heaven. It's called the "Investigative Judgment" which goes along with the Antitypical Day of Atonement, when Christ entered His final phase in the Heavenly Sanctuary in the Most Holy Place (where He's still at), to commence a work of vindication for the saints, and condemning the Little Horn. Finally, when Jesus comes back, the Little Horn will be destroyed.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, also notice that the judgment "sits" after the time, times, and dividing of time (1260 years during the Dark Ages). "But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy [it] unto the end." (Dan 7:26).
1. First the judgment sits. (prior to second coming)
2. Then the dominion is taken away (during the 7 last plagues of course)
3. Then the horn will be consumed and destroyed (at the second coming)
Daniel is seeing a massive sweep of history here.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Sorry, wrong times times and dividing of times. the judgment of the Lord does not occur until he comes; nor is it set up. We saints are set up on thrones Rev.20:4 after we are raised with the Lord, meet in the air, destroy Satan's kingdom, and reign in judgment with the Lord. Natural just like breathing Lysimachus78, just like breathing; that's not a boast, but when its right, you don't have to wrest with verse, don't have to stretch things out context, don't have to go out bible
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo
No, the Most Holy Place is not on earth. It is in heaven. Jesus has not come back yet. Only when He leaves the Most Holy Place (His work is not finished as High Priest yet) will He return back to the earth to gather all His children, and destroy the wicked.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
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Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, in other words, when Christ ascended to heaven after He rose from the tomb around 31 A.D., Jesus entered into the Heavenly Sanctuary to commence His High Priestly work that revolved around a Holy Place ministration. But in 1844, He moved to the Most Holy Place to commence the wedding before He returns at the Second Coming. This tells us just how soon Jesus will come. Remember, we must understand time in God's perspective, not our perspective.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Rev.19:7-9 the wedding commences "after" the final great whore kingdom of Satan is cast down.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, prior to Miller, there were approximately 75 other Protestant expositors around the globe and from different continents who came to the conclusion that the end of all things terminated in the 1840s, either 1843, 1844, or 1847 (all depending on when they started counting--but we've now pin-pointed the commencement of the 2300 to 457 B.C., bringing the terminus of the 2300 in 1844. Miller was just one man besides these 75 other authors and preachers. It was huge disappointment no doubt.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Okay, aside from the disappointments; I seem to hear you say "Adventist" decided Jesus moved to the Ancient of days, what exactly is the Ancient of days with Adventist?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo
The Ancient of Days we understand as God the Father. But honestly, this has been the standard definition in Protestantism. The Father dwells in the Most Holy Place, above the Ark of the Covenant, between the two Cherubims (Isaiah 37:16). So in 1844, Christ presented Himself before the Father as He entered into the Second Chamber. We as Adventists believe the earthly sanctuary was patterned after the heavenly. There are 2 apartments. The Holy and the Most Holy.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Well now lets see here Daniel says of the Ancient of days:
He comes in the clouds
He destroys the beast
he takes judgment
a thousand thousand minister unto him
gives a kingdom to one like the son of man (David)
and ten thousand thousand stand before him
Come now Lysimachus78 you already know who this is, you know. Why would even you continue in the traditions of the fathers of Adventism at the expense of even one proper interpretation?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, though is being judged, he will not be destroyed until Christ leaves the Most Holy Place. Remember, Daniel is covering a LARGE time span. We're dealing with centuries in only a few sentences. This is only understood once we recognize the "day-for-year" principle of Ezek 4:6 and Num 14:34. Remember, the 2300 days encompasses the time of the entire "vision" (chazon) in Dan 8. It encompasses the time of the Ram (Persia), Goat (Greece), & horns. These r kingdoms, requiring 2300 to be centuries
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Would you deny the Ancient of days can only point to Christ Jesus?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, it is difficult for me to comprehend how the Ancient of Days could possibly be Christ.
"I saw in the night visions, &, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, & came to the Ancient of days, & they brought him near before him." (Dan 7:13)
Here u are having the Son of Man (Christ) coming before the Ancient of Days. Unless u want to make Christ come before Himself? That doesn't make any sense. Remember, the Father got up from the Holy Place & sat in the Most Holy.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, then after the thrones were placed, the Father sat down in the Most Holy, then the Son of God moved after Him and came before the Father to present Himself.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 I told you son H1247 is merely descriptive of David, remember? God promised David an everlasting kingdom II Sam.7:13-14 This is not the son of God; son of man here means David, also just look at all the other things the Ancient of days does that can only apply to the Christ, not the Father, this is a very easy interpretation to figure unless you walk up to the scripture with belief in hand.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, but you are forgetting that David was simply a type of Christ. Jesus is the Son of David, so He comes through David's line. Jesus is the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant, the Davidic Promise. Jesus is the true David! He is the fulfillment of all those promises to David. The reason Jesus is called the "Son of man" in Dan 7 is because this was after He was born as a babe. But David has not ascended to the heavens (Acts 2:34), therefore, Jesus is the fulfillment of the Davidic Promise.:)
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 since all the other descriptions of the Ancient of days falls squarely on Jesus and not the Father at all nor is he ever described as having a garment white as snow or the hair of his head like wool, but Jesus is Rev.1:14 It is a very very very natural fit to see the one that they (humbly) bring near to the Ancient of days as David especially seeing that the righteous will be raised with, rule and judge and reign with Christ, but oh yeah, you don't believe that either......Ahhuuuug
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 the ram is destroyed by the goat which result in four kingdoms out of which the little horn evolves which is described as the dreadful king man of sin in the flesh who's kingdom is destroyed of the Prince of princes (Christ) again I ask the same ol question I asked before; If the devil man which is destroyed of Christ is in this account how can it refer to any thing in history, because his kingdom has not yet come? Are you going to keep ignoring my questions if so, huummm, Why?
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo, I'm not trying to ignore your questions. I guess I'm just having difficulty wrapping my brain around exactly what you are asking. I'm going to have to evaluate closely what your questions are before I can answer. Talk to you later brother.
Peace.
~Lysimachus
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 Hey there friend, just wondered if you got a chance to see "CHINA IN PROPHECY=RAM, AMERICA= GOAT TAKES CHINA 4 KINGDOMS=MAN OF SIN SMALL ARMY TAKES WORLD" I thought it would give you a little better reference point for the question I was asking. A somewhat shorter but less organized explanation of it is my "The Entire End Time Prophetic Message, Great Details (5min. foundation) Relax and Listen" and pt 2 of this video is still shorter but it addresses the highlights also China/best
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@Jo
We believe that both Daniel 7 and 8 parallel one another. Their both covering the same history, but from different angles. A good book to read is "1844 Made Simple" by Clifford Goldstein. Even if you disagree, you might as well try and become familiar with their teaching.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Jo, so as much as I'd love to discuss the Sabbath, I'd prefer to stick to the discussion of eschatology. Adventist eschatology is built on the pillars of Historicism (not Futurism, not Dispensationalism, and not Preterism). Historicism was the hermeneutic of prophetic interpretation employed by ALL our reformers--Tyndale, Luther, Zwingli, Huss, Jerome, Knox, Ridley, Rogers, Calvin, Melanchthon, Wesley, Spurgeon, and many more.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78 If you looked at part 2 of this false rapture series you would have seen the key to understanding all end time prophecy, in a word: the devil man of sin, dreadful vile king of fierce countenance shows up in all the prophetic accounts and rules in his kingdom and is destroyed of Christ at his coming, therefore all the prophetic accounts speaking of him must and can only be speaking of his future coming kingdom in the last days which is destroyed of Christ: what do make of this point
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@ JoBernard12oxen
When you say Satan's end time world kingdom, are you talking about the Wild beast recorded in Rev?
dsim01 7 months ago
@dsim01 post 1 That's a good question dsim01, the mystery Babylon beast in Revelation 17 help me unlock the usage of this term "Babylon" as it is used throughout all of prophecy, I began to notice that Babylon is the name God has chosen to give all the kingdoms of Satan throughout scripture. Satan's world kingdoms are not the only vast empires that have ever existed but Satan's empires have the distinction of ruling over God's people at some point in time. please see post 2
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@dsim01 the 2nd beast of Rev is destroyed of Christ when he comes. The promise of all of prophecy is that a fallen Babylon will never rise to power again, this is why Babylon is said to be desolate, many think this means the land where Babylon was, no it means the Babylon kingdoms mentioned throughout scripture, which is why Rome shall never rise to power again. Finally mystery Babylon represents that "great city" of Rev. which are all the sinful people of the world since the beginning of time.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen I believe the scripture in Rev 17:18 is teaching us that Babylon the Great has a Kingdom over the Kings of the Earth in the last day, our time now. She will fall because the Kings of the Earth will turn against her and comepletly destroy her, and she will be desolate.
That is why the Kings of the Earth give there power over to the Wild Beast or the (End time World Kingdom) you mentioned which is also present in the last days our time now.
dsim01 7 months ago
@dsim01 Ttwo end time beast in Rev.13 Rev.17:12 mentions ten horns ten kings = kingdoms, ten signifies complete, horns of a beast are used to fight with, horns is military, ten (completeness) horns (of military power) and ten (completeness) kings (powers/rulers) rule for a short time. In Dan.8 a ram is the first end time beast destroyed by the goat which breaks into four world kingdoms, out of one of them the devil man brings in the 2nd/final kingdom which falls at Christ return. see pt 2 video
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@dsim01 The last great world kingdom of that devil man in the flesh imposes a worldwide identification system, creates an worldwide army army against all Christian organization in the entire earth, this is the final end time kingdom upon which the tribulation is poured out, at which time 2/3's of the sheep and little ones of the Shepard die and 1/3 are tested. Satan last kingdom is destroyed of Christ upon his return in all of prophecy, this kingdom will be so mighty only Christ can destroy it.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
@JoBernard12oxen A careful research of Rev 17 will bring insight and understanding of the Identity of Babylon the Great. Also researching in the bible the City of babylon, why God caused that city to fall, and why the book of Revelation symbolically reference "Babylon the Great"? And why God causes that Empire to fall Rev 17:17
dsim01 7 months ago
The Rapture certainly is false, and All people will witness the fall of Babylon the Great, the start of The Great Tribulation, because God judges her. The question is Why?
dsim01 7 months ago
@dsim01 Remember, the six plagues/trumpets are judgments and "tribulation" poured out in Rev. on Satan's final end time world kingdom, after the sixth plague Rev16:15 Christ returns as a thief in the night to gather his saints from every generation Isa.13:1-5 to use them as weapons of his indignation to destroy Satan's kingdom. The tribulation is punishment on the world for their sins and also the church to correct and return them unto the Lord before that great day of the Lord's return.
JoBernard12oxen 7 months ago
Amen, tell it like it is! Dispensational-Pre-Tribulationalists are going to croak when they realize they are right in the middle of the final tribulation that will be poured out on this world. They will be found without a shelter. It's so sad. I continue to pray for them. When Jesus comes back, He will come back ONE TIME, for ALL! The righteous will be taken to heaven, and the wicked will receive sudden destruction! 1 Thess 4:16 - 5:3.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@Lysimachus78
No- The Righteous will inherit the Earth, and the wicked will receive sudden destruction.
The heavenly hope is only reserved for the Saints (Annointed) ones of Christ, who will rule as Kings over the righteous here on Earth for a thousand years. Rev 5:10, Rev 20:6
The purpose of Christ return is to establish his heavenly kingdom here on Earth. He will destroy all Governments and his alone will stand to time indefinite. ..
dsim01 7 months ago
@dsim01
With all due respect, I must disagree with you that there will be any population on the earth during the 1000 years. I do believe the meek will inherit the earth, but this is at the end of the millennium when the earth is made new, when the New Jerusalem comes down from heaven, and Christ puts his feet on the Mount of Olives. But during the 1000 years, the earth will be desolate, and it will "rest" from habitation. I have written a long article about this, and I will send it to u.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@dsim01
So while Christ's Second Coming is to destroy the kingdoms of this earth, and deliver the righteous, it is not until the end of the day of the Lord (the day of the Lord lasts for 1000 years) that the earthly reign commences.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago
@dsim01
I do not believe it can be scripturally established that the righteous inherit the earth the very moment of Christ's Second Coming. It is at Christ's Second Coming that all the saints are taken to heaven for 1000 years, while all the wicked are left desolate. Satan will be bound to this desolate, void earth, without anyone to tempt or manipulate, for 1000 years. This is Satan's perfect punishment. A 1000 year vacation on a planet that he destroyed.
Lysimachus78 7 months ago