Omar el Bashir is war crinimal, if international law and stability is to be maintained then it is logical that he should be arrested & placed on trial
The base line is peace in Sudan. I fully support my govt and the AU in this. Why are these guys impatient? Cant they wait for the referendum and may be when the southerners have their own state the international community can square those responsible for deaths in Darfur?
point is bashir has allowed the death of over 300k s.sudanese.to some kenyans its nothing.all comments bashing the us amb is typical african shallow attitude.if you don't want US and europeans critism don't be begging for aid.what resources does kenya have.we can't even build our roads,no water 70% of the ppl leave below the poverty line.allways flocking to US and euro.if you think china will give kenya free aid and kenya is another USA keep on deamimg.
@123thjoe You have put it all very well and succinctly. Many of these Kenyans and Africans criticizing the West think China will give them anything. How many people have you seen who have been helped by China, e.g. by scholarships, etc? None.
And I cannot understand why these US critics feel nothing about the deaths of >300,000 South Sudanese, and many more in the past civil wars.
What benefit did Bashir bring to us, and what National Interest are these people talking about???
no the ICC is a good idea for Kenya, the perps will never be punished otherwise. the US isn't doing fuck all about it bc they want Kenya's resources, in battle with China
The same Ambassador's country is not a signatory to the Rome Statute and commits the worst human rights abuses. Shut up you hypocrite!!! ODM is a kiss ass party to globalists and will continue kissing IMF, World Bank's ass when in power. Where are the real Africans? Say NO to Global Courts, Global Government and Global currency.
@drsugarcane You feel it is OK for Bashir to go scot-free in the murder of the >300,000 Southerners?
And when you ask where are the real Africans, perhaps it would help if you could name a few of those Africans that are "real", and let us know what they have done for the good of the world
@2190g1 Bashir must answer for his crimes if he committed any. I'm against this New World Order where anybody can be hauled to a Global Court. I'm against Global government. Let people answer to their own judicial systems in their own sovereign lands but this Antichrist Global Court system I'm against. If warrants of arrest can be issued against sitting presidents what about ordinary folk? We need an independent local tribunal in Kenya for the PEV.
@drsugarcane To begin with your last point, Kenya clearly showed that it cannot have a local tribunal: the arguments and fights on tribal and other trivial bases would be too much... so that line is closed.
About avoidance of Global Courts and Govts, I agree but what can Africa do on its own at present without global support? If we cannot lose an election willingly, without foreign observers, tell me can we run a court process fairly on such an emotive issue???
Bashir is a mass murderer, but let the US which has not ratified the Rome statutes bash us on what we did or not do with ICC. Do they want us to go to war with Sudan?
The ambassador is a total a-hole. True, Bashir is a murderer but if you want him, go into Sudan and get him yourself - how about deploying some of those special forces just coming back from Iraq, huh?
@2190g1 - Without looking to defend him, what happened to innocent until proven guilty. That being said, my position is that Kenya should not involve itself in taking its neighbors leaders hostage. We are not the ones who want him; it's the ICC. Remember that as we speak, the CIA is probably funding some soon to be dictator somewhere the same way they funded the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.
@surambaya I agree fully about presumed innocence until guilt is proven. But given his elusiveness, how can his innocence be proved. As we speak, the Janjaweed are still killing the poor Southerners.
I also agree that it is not Kenya's role to arrest Bashir. But I am sure you agree that he was not invited to Kenya because he would bring any value. He was invited to spite the ICC, and to support the AU, which has leaders who are afraid of the same process being done to them. See my points??
@2190g1 - Agreed that there is no value to having Bashir in Kenya whilst at the same time we have a cessation in Southern Sudan waiting to happen this year. From a political strategy perspective, you are right on point. We cannot be seen to support the Northern Sudan regime while at the same time look to doing business with Southern Sudan now in the future. That being said, he likely asked to be invited and being the weak leaders that we are, we probably grudgingly agreed to have him over.
@surambaya And what would have been the net loss for Kibaki to refuse to "grudgingly" accept Bashir's request to be invited? In my opinion, Kibaki has lost more than he could have hoped to gain merely by inviting a person that has no value to him, neither now, nor anytime in future. Tell me what you think
@2190g1 - I reckon you always want to keep your options open. I wouldn't want to be openly hostile to the leader of Africa's largest country & if he insisted on coming you really couldn't turn him back for all sorts of reasons. Remember when Mugabe flew to the Vatican for Ratzinger's inauguration with a European travel ban on him? Or when Mandela flew into Kenya on a stopover and refused to meet govt officials even for a few minutes? Methinks there's got to be some unwritten code somewhere.....
U.S. is not a signatory of the ICC. They would not hand over their people to the ICC. U.S. should stay out of this one.
ayoma825 1 year ago
Omar el Bashir is war crinimal, if international law and stability is to be maintained then it is logical that he should be arrested & placed on trial
STEPHENWRAYSFORD33 1 year ago
The base line is peace in Sudan. I fully support my govt and the AU in this. Why are these guys impatient? Cant they wait for the referendum and may be when the southerners have their own state the international community can square those responsible for deaths in Darfur?
mwanamuciare 1 year ago
Who is supposed to be in ICcbashir or George bush 1 n 2?? All of them!
almunjama 1 year ago
point is bashir has allowed the death of over 300k s.sudanese.to some kenyans its nothing.all comments bashing the us amb is typical african shallow attitude.if you don't want US and europeans critism don't be begging for aid.what resources does kenya have.we can't even build our roads,no water 70% of the ppl leave below the poverty line.allways flocking to US and euro.if you think china will give kenya free aid and kenya is another USA keep on deamimg.
123thjoe 1 year ago
@123thjoe You have put it all very well and succinctly. Many of these Kenyans and Africans criticizing the West think China will give them anything. How many people have you seen who have been helped by China, e.g. by scholarships, etc? None.
And I cannot understand why these US critics feel nothing about the deaths of >300,000 South Sudanese, and many more in the past civil wars.
What benefit did Bashir bring to us, and what National Interest are these people talking about???
2190g1 1 year ago
no the ICC is a good idea for Kenya, the perps will never be punished otherwise. the US isn't doing fuck all about it bc they want Kenya's resources, in battle with China
bjtow 1 year ago
The same Ambassador's country is not a signatory to the Rome Statute and commits the worst human rights abuses. Shut up you hypocrite!!! ODM is a kiss ass party to globalists and will continue kissing IMF, World Bank's ass when in power. Where are the real Africans? Say NO to Global Courts, Global Government and Global currency.
drsugarcane 1 year ago
@drsugarcane You feel it is OK for Bashir to go scot-free in the murder of the >300,000 Southerners?
And when you ask where are the real Africans, perhaps it would help if you could name a few of those Africans that are "real", and let us know what they have done for the good of the world
2190g1 1 year ago
@2190g1 Bashir must answer for his crimes if he committed any. I'm against this New World Order where anybody can be hauled to a Global Court. I'm against Global government. Let people answer to their own judicial systems in their own sovereign lands but this Antichrist Global Court system I'm against. If warrants of arrest can be issued against sitting presidents what about ordinary folk? We need an independent local tribunal in Kenya for the PEV.
drsugarcane 1 year ago
@drsugarcane To begin with your last point, Kenya clearly showed that it cannot have a local tribunal: the arguments and fights on tribal and other trivial bases would be too much... so that line is closed.
About avoidance of Global Courts and Govts, I agree but what can Africa do on its own at present without global support? If we cannot lose an election willingly, without foreign observers, tell me can we run a court process fairly on such an emotive issue???
2190g1 1 year ago
Bashir is a mass murderer, but let the US which has not ratified the Rome statutes bash us on what we did or not do with ICC. Do they want us to go to war with Sudan?
mytime81 1 year ago
the hypocrisy of these people is astounding...
omera26 1 year ago
The ambassador is a total a-hole. True, Bashir is a murderer but if you want him, go into Sudan and get him yourself - how about deploying some of those special forces just coming back from Iraq, huh?
surambaya 1 year ago
@surambaya You feel nothing about the >300,000 people he has killed in the South??
2190g1 1 year ago
@2190g1 - Without looking to defend him, what happened to innocent until proven guilty. That being said, my position is that Kenya should not involve itself in taking its neighbors leaders hostage. We are not the ones who want him; it's the ICC. Remember that as we speak, the CIA is probably funding some soon to be dictator somewhere the same way they funded the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.
surambaya 1 year ago
@surambaya I agree fully about presumed innocence until guilt is proven. But given his elusiveness, how can his innocence be proved. As we speak, the Janjaweed are still killing the poor Southerners.
I also agree that it is not Kenya's role to arrest Bashir. But I am sure you agree that he was not invited to Kenya because he would bring any value. He was invited to spite the ICC, and to support the AU, which has leaders who are afraid of the same process being done to them. See my points??
2190g1 1 year ago
@2190g1 - Agreed that there is no value to having Bashir in Kenya whilst at the same time we have a cessation in Southern Sudan waiting to happen this year. From a political strategy perspective, you are right on point. We cannot be seen to support the Northern Sudan regime while at the same time look to doing business with Southern Sudan now in the future. That being said, he likely asked to be invited and being the weak leaders that we are, we probably grudgingly agreed to have him over.
surambaya 1 year ago
@surambaya And what would have been the net loss for Kibaki to refuse to "grudgingly" accept Bashir's request to be invited? In my opinion, Kibaki has lost more than he could have hoped to gain merely by inviting a person that has no value to him, neither now, nor anytime in future. Tell me what you think
2190g1 1 year ago
@2190g1 - I reckon you always want to keep your options open. I wouldn't want to be openly hostile to the leader of Africa's largest country & if he insisted on coming you really couldn't turn him back for all sorts of reasons. Remember when Mugabe flew to the Vatican for Ratzinger's inauguration with a European travel ban on him? Or when Mandela flew into Kenya on a stopover and refused to meet govt officials even for a few minutes? Methinks there's got to be some unwritten code somewhere.....
surambaya 1 year ago
@2190g1 - Oh, I mean a cessation referendum waiting to happen next year in 2011.
surambaya 1 year ago