I think the key thing here is that this accident was mostly a team failure because they were pushed by Mclaren. They had one driver in Eco mode saving gas and the tires. Vettel was still not in Eco mode so he knew that was his only chance to pass and he took it. TEAM MISTAKE for not putting both drivers on Eco mode and much as I don't like Hamilton much he is still a great driver and pushed Red Bull into making this mistake. The drivers were just racing and stuff like that happens when you race.
Webber was fine with what he done....he was holding his line driving completely straight...Vettel's move was also fine, until he tried to cut Webber off. If he is going to stick it up the inside its up to him to get his breaking point and use the inside of the corner to take position, not try and push Webber of the track. Clearly Vettel's fault.
They are racing each other they both want to win so to win you have to be in 1st so they crashed because they both thought they were ahead and it was a side to side crash so no one was in first
Mark left him enough room to get past, its vettel's own fault he crashed out. Im glad mark was able to finish on the podium, i hope this does'nt effect the rest of the season for him. They should just sort this out in the carpark.
@CaboArmorKing That's right. This is what the rational ones are trying to tell the other side. I am astonished to read that there are people who think that Webber should have just made way for King Vettel no matter how irrational and unsafe the move was. If Webber had done this, then he should not be in the F1 league.
Vettel's fault. If he had waited a bit longer he would have been clear of Webber. He was still pulling ahead.
Instead he tried to bully him and didn't give him time to react. Webbers not a mind reader, and he had left him room.
Its not the first time Vettel has twitched when side by side, maybe he'll calm down after another couple of crashes. RB management are losing credibility by being biased for Vettel and against Webber.
Your all retards who think it was vettel's fault. he made a fair move, like other people had done at the same point. Webber clearly DIDN'T give him enough room, and was too bothered about his ego to let him through. Vettel was ahead but Mark still didn't move. He cause the accident, cause he forced Vettel onto the dirty, bumpy side of the track so he lost control. He never 'swerved into him' like some twats r saying. he lost control of the car, because of Webber, end of
@Velocitigerr he didn't force vettel onto the dirty side. Are you fucking blind? You could fit a double decker bus in that gap. Its clear vettel moved to the right, just as he was passing webber. The kid is a tit. He may be a good driver but a good overtaker he is not.
@FarRightFred sorry, are u a F1 driver? F1 cars are extrememly hard cars to handle at speed, especially when some spazz is pushing you towards the grass. Even Christian Horner admits Webber should have given him more space. so, stfu.
@Velocitigerr are you a F1 driver? no, I didn't think so. He was not pushing him towards the grass and if you open your eyes you can clearly see vettel had enough room as his car was just passing webbers. So how the fuck was he pushed onto the grass? As vettel started to pass he moved right (as you can see from the onboard camera) which caused the accident. I don't support either of them tbh but I can clearly see who is is the wrong and that guys name is Seb "overrated" Vettel.
Webber was being a dick and not moving out the way to the far superior driver, where did u expect him to go? And from Vettel's point of view mark could not be seen.
Now that all you German hating scum have made such a huge deal about it, every time Vettel does well you will just say that the team is biased.
@Nish2280 Vettel, the far superior driver? Where was he in the Spanish and Monaco GPs then? Who's leading the WDC? Oh, its Mark Webber isn't it? Why the hell would he just let Vettel go by?
Mark could not be seen? Maybe, but then nearly all overtakes are like this. Just look at Hamilton and Button's battle.
Brundle, Hamilton, Coulthard, and Lauda all believes it's Vettel's fault. Yet, Red Bull believes it is Webber's fault. Even Brundle thinks Red Bull are clearly favouring Vettel.
@d4rky26 Ok. Ill admit, i was slightly pissed off after reading all the Vettel hate comments. I believe it was both their faults if not more of Webber's. Didnt you see how when Lewis was pressured by Button he just gave way and then attacked moments later? If Webber was the better driver why wouldnt he do that? Also where did u expect Vetter to go? Into the grass? Just back off and not challenge for 25 points?
Just because Brundle says so doesnt mean i cant have my own opinion.
its war aussie vs germans, the bloody germans r gonna pay for this at thw world cup. wats worst is the bloody team is blaming webber cause there so bloody biast against non-europeans.
He shouldn't have made his move there .. but it really is too close to call as to whose fault it is. Webber coz he should've give some space for Vettel, or Vettel for being too aggressive. In F1, I support the Red Bulls, and esp. Vettel, but i have to say that this incident may be his fault, he was probably jealous of Webber's past 2 wins, and wanted the glory for himself.
Webber was right in the middle of the track and not set up for the line of the corner! Vettel passas, assuming that webber would move over, but hes still there when vettel moves in to the line.
Vettel had the space, providing he bullied Webber out of the way so he had the line for the corner.
Webber, being australian, and therefore stubborn, isn't exactly going to make it easy for him to pass like that, so held his line. Think case of 'two cars driving head on, which one is going to swerve first.'
Therefore, when Seb moved over to take the line through the corner, Webber was still there.
webber should let him go and be overtaken by hamilton, ey? What a load of bollocks. People are not telling Vettel he did something wrong. How is he ever going to learn how to overtake safely. And its not the first, second or even third time. Only this time Webber held his line. He did it to lewis in the pits in china and also twice earlier on in the race in turkey when hamilton tried to overtake him and both times hamilton moved.
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just cant beleive some of the comments here..webber was at fault..what race were they watching...vettel is the better driver, um who is leading the championship atm??
imo vettel made a major mistake which cost webber his 3rd straight win, and anyone who thinks different needs their eyes examined
Seb is a spoilt, jealous and immature brat you cannot come to term with his team mates success. So under pressure he tried this arrogant move on Webber. Vettel is just desperate to be the cynosure of all eyes. Mark now exudes his class and maturity on the track and off ,which was also evident in the press conference where he controlled his emotions instead of lashing out against Vettel. Go Mark Go...Leave Your Mark All Over Vettel
The video tells the story, there is no point in arguing over it, why debate the issue on and on.. Clearly Seb hit Mark, he made an error in judgement or lost control and hit Mark. Seb took a spur of the moment chance, he also 'assumed' Mark would pull to the right to let him through. Mark is racing he was under no obligation to allow Seb through. Seb knew Mark was told to switch to ECO mode so Seb thought "Hmmm here's an opportunity"...the rest is history.
With about a quarter of the race to go,Vettel had plenty of time to challenge his team-mate for a win
Not only was his decision to overtake greedy, his attempt was clumsy & highly in-experienced
With Red-bull in perfect positions,the little prick let his ego get in the way & lost valuable points for not only himself,but for the team
Now that Webber knows his team-mate's greedy intent to surpass him at any cost,he should now only drive for himself without Vettel's well-being in mind
this is what you get medico government departments when you issue health safety warnings at responsible product manufacturers, the people get cravings.
though it was a truly unfortunate for vettel missing out, it wud have been better had even webber got out because the way the cars crashed i though it was over for the red bulls in turkey.....and in that process shumi wud have got the 3rd position atleast.... i want mercedes to well and specially shumi.......very unfortunate to crash out in the flying lap in the 3rd qualifying.
@FOX5V Webber is going straight, he does not deviate...Vettel tries to make a pass, then quickly swerves right making contact with Mark. No one to blame other then Vettel. Another analogy would be like Vettel slamming into a parked car, then blaming the parked car for being in the way! The only way Mark could be at fault is if the team ordered the pass..which is illegal!!!
@FOX5V Are you serious? The accident was Vittels fault. He came in strong, but for some reason, expected Webber to swerve away. Webber left enough room for Vittel to pass if he was to hold his line,but the little prick swerved right into Webber & caused a stupid accident. If Webber was the one who closed in to the left, then it would be Webber at fault,but that was not the case
You can back Vittel all you want,but watch the video and let the facts do the talking
If your going for a one two you just dont tell Your number two driver to take the lead because this is what happens. RBR favours Vettel and this is shown by the way Horner and Helmut are covering the accident up. Vettel IS a real wonderkid isn't he.. Red Bull Racing stuffs it up all the time.
I think this is a typical race incident. Webber doen't move a millimeter to the right, giving his teammate very less space. Vettel moves a few centimeters to the right because the left trackline was very close to him. Both racing, both to blame...
1)The timing to challenge Webber was stupid.There was plenty of race left to put up a battle
2)Webber held his line,was not expected to swerve away for Vittel.There was a car length inside for Vittel to advance forward,but made the stupid move to swerve right
3)If Vittel gained half a car length more, then Webber would have had to make room,thus avoiding any catastrophe & holding a 1-2 finish for the team
Webber didn't "need" to win &would have gladly taken points for 2nd
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the ordinary Weber is costing Vettel. Vettel should leave Red Bull ASAP. There is no point of staying in a team that can't recognize or respect the true talent over some ordinary driver. All the red neck aussies are putting in their cheap comments here.
@randominitializer Obviously got no idea champ. Whether or not you like to admit it, Webber is dominating Vettel and his 4 poles, 2 wins (should have been 3) is evidence of this. Did you watch the Monte Carlo race, Vettel had no answer to his team mate and after each safety car, Webber pulled away with ease.
If you guys look closely @ the 48 sec mark, Webber looks in his LHS mirror and has a slight steering input to the left to close the door on Seb. Seb was way faster at this point and was not able to slow down to avoid a collision. Webber has a history of blocking in this manner. I have lost an awful lot of respect for Webber. What an ass.
@zanedouglas101 I actually agree with you. Seb did move into Webber. The point I was making was Webber started the whole thing. It was unnecessary to block him to begin with. The 'no everything’ is spelled 'know'. Thanks for your participation in the forum. When you graduate high school come back and joins us for an adult conversation.
this is the main reason why i stop watchin F1, its just an individual race, team work ma foot, anyone still remembers how barrichelo let m.schumacher cross the finish line before him on the last lap?
@SuperKaranSandhu Mark is the noob? Vettel had room he just didnt have the line for the next corner so instead of being hung out to dry he risked a sharp right turn at his team mate to make him baulk (But he didnt), but oh hang on if the situation was reversed it would be Webbers fault because Vettels quicker right?
@forr3st32 yep if i was redbull i'd be sucking up to vettel because they want to be the dominant team for years to come and they have the fastest driver atm so they are going to take care of him i dnt blame them but we know what happened the can say anything they want but the film wont lie
@poodytang6 atm Webber is the fastest driver but point taken Vettel is the driver for the future, Its seems rbr has taken a measured approach which is good, hope the 2 of them dont clash too much this season because that car is a rocket. Unfortunately I do expect fireworks not because they dislike each other but because they are both in the running, its may be Webbers only shot and Vettels first so it should make for interesting (and sometimes frustrating) racing.
Vettel reminds me of that other German - Michael Schumacher, who also had great talent but no ethics in his racing. Win at any cost is not the way of a true champion.
It have been said over and over and yet I still don't see why RBR blaming Webber for this incidence. Vettel foolishly destroying Webber hattrick no doubt about it with this replay. Hate the gut of Vettel doing this crazy swirling finger showing it not his fault.
@ausSocceroos It's Germans/Austrians backing Germans. They would rather lose constructors' points than admit that the little German brat was at fault. Vettel should have overtaken on the straight and done it safely. This is what the Vettel suck ups don't understand. They are pandering to an immature spoilt brat who is fast becoming a monster.
@Nagsatish Sure am. And of course we're proud of Mark's progress through F1. But if Webber stuffs up, we say that too. Not argue against the obvious facts like what has happened now with Vettel. Perfect example is the Australian GP 2010. Webber stuffed himself and Hamilton with this same dumb move. It's the one race of the calendar that Webber can lose a bit of his cool because he's on home soil.
This has been coming for ages, Vettle just couldn't accept Webber winning the last couple races and constantly getting pole position.
Vettle was going to fast into the corner, simple as that. Webber didn't have to just let this jerk push him off the road, because vettle believes he is the "it" man.
vettel thought he was clear of webber when they hit the turn but didn't work I can wait till they to Canada in 2 weeks mark could get payback in Montreal.
The vid is quite clear. Webber kept his line while Vettel swerved before the braking. Then Seb tries to fool everyone with his antics, as he is really pissed of at Mark, but I'm sure he knows he blew it.
@d4rky26 look at the video, Vettel was ahead, and Webber had almost 3 seconds to move away from him. He didn't, and Vettel had to keep himself off of the grass. (Not saying that Vettel's idea was good, but this is the exact type of racing that Ecclestone wanted when he announced 25 points for a win. Seems to be working...)
@d4rky26 and what would Vettel have done when they reached the corner? He was too far inside and would have had to slow down earlier, which would have caused a similar collision. Vettel had gone ahead and put Webber into a move-or-collide position. If Webber had moved he would have finished 2nd.
@kay5951 Webber had been ask to save fuel, that is the only reason Vettel was faster, isn't it interesting how the team weren't asking Vettel to save fuel.
This is Teams orders 2010 style. Sad to think when Webber is so clearly kicking Vettel's ass.
Vettel is the only one to blame! Not only Webber was the leader of the race, he's the leader of the WDC and he has no clause in his contract saying that he must let his team mate pass and win, like Rubens had in his Ferrari contract. But then, it was Schumacher's demand to sign with Ferrari that all his team mates were to be his vassals. Vettel is no Schummy!
vettel is CLEARLY at fault he was the one who swerved into webber who was holding his line ''as per the rules'' it is as clear as day as the commentators said webber was not at fault.
I think Vettel should have passed webber on the outside and pushed webber onto the dirty side of the track, he didn't he chose to move to the dirty side too early and didn't have the pace advantage once he was out of the slip stream, he should have conceded and done it properly the next lap. To complete a succesful pass, you must pass, not rely on the guy you are passing to give you the position
Can clearly see at 0:47 Webber decides to squeeze Vettel as he can see him coming in his mirror. Was Vettle to blame? Perpahps, but they're team mates so you'd think that perhaps Webber would just let him have a bit more room just to avoid any sort of accident and try and reclaim his position further on.
Vettle isn't on a ego trip, he just doesn't want to wait around.
I feel Webber was not friendly with his position. He knew Vettel was ahead and on his inside, yet he didn't give him room and space to overtake. As u can see, Webber didn't even steer. he was so rigid with his direction.
As for Vettel, his car was about half way ahead of Webber. So, Webber should have let Vettel to pass him and maybe attack him in the next sequence of corners. Webber was not courteous with Vettel.
@Anime998877 Actually it is possible and that's why most drivers take the inside to defend their position. They can brake earlier and keep the line to the next turn and thus force the opponent to brake too or crash in their rear.
But when it doesn't work (like it didn't for Piquet on the 1st try-nice X ) and you have a faster car, you try again from the outside, take the front and then you close to the inside and take the turn making the opponent to brake, just like Piquet did on the 2nd time!
@Anime998877 good reason why vettel didn't have a second time.....he caused a collision...he is the one who is nuts! Good on webber for holding his ground, can't let little punks try to out muscle you
Vettel is just an idiot - he caused the whole thing - his ego is to big and thinks he is better than Webber - Vettel should never have gone that side on the dirty track - he should have waited and been more prepared. He is not the great Schu!! but gee doesnt this start bringing back memories of Hill and Shui ??
I have NEVER seen anybody back off of an overtaking opportunity. Comparing Schumi and Vettel positions are ridiculous. Yes they were both on the inside of the circuit but:
1. Schumi was being overtaken, Vettel was overtaking
2. The line Schumi took has considerably more grip than the line Vettel took.
Compare Schum and Web.
Schumi - Button comes through him, he concedes the racing line before it goes wrong.
Webber - Vettel comes through him, Webber doesn't concede, it goes wrong.
@Anime998877 Actually this is precisely relevant because it shows how the pass should have been done. In this video, webber held his line perfectly and vettel rammed him. At the point of impact there was at least 1 foot between vettel and the grass so to say there wasn't enough room is ludicrous.
That overtaking move is similar to Button vs Schumi in the 2010 race, both Schumi in the 2010 race and Kubica in the video yielded before the corner after they saw their rivals skyrocket past them. Webber didn't...
If Schumi didn't yield, and they ended up in a collision it would be Schumi's fault for not giving up after having clearly lost the position.
At 0:47 you can see Webber steering to left - absolutely unnecessary, he already had lost the battle there. From this point his line brought him more and more slighly left. Vettel corrects his line at 1:22 to avoid the grass. So he went on a line which took him more an more to the right. So both cars came closer and they met. 50:50, but Webber's move at 0:47 was the beginning.
@Bleifuss88 no you don't see Webber "steering to the right". He holds his line, which is tilting towards his left. If we think Vettal was in the right in this situation, then we say it is okay to over accelerate going into a turn, get your nose ahead, forget about the braking duel because you can expect the other guy to let you through like a doorman.
Schumi wasn't on the inside like Vettel. Vettel is right on the edge of the circuit where there is virtually ZERO grip. Why didn't Vettel do what Schumi did? Because he was overtaking, not being overtaken.
OMFG! Again this? Anime, go read about it. EVERY F1 driver, present and past, have said it. Vettel was to blame. He should've kept it straight and take the next left turn with whatever chances he had. You don't swerve right with half a car advantage only because you think you're "much" faster.
Fighting for position establishes that the defending car can change position once and hold straight. Webber did it. It was his right to do it. Glad he grabbed a podium after Vettel's mess!
That is ridiculous. The "chances" as you say were no good. Not only would he have lost position to Webber, he could have lost second to Hamilton. It would make more sense to get to the racing line to have better "chances".
@AllycatLeo Wouldn't bother, he's obviously a rabid unreasoning nut. He's already swearing because he can't convince people that up is down.
He just can't rationalize that as you mention just about every F1 driver, pundit or team manager (apart from Red Bull!!) clearly know that drivers do NOT have to move over and are perfectly entitled to maintain their line if an overtake has not been completed (which it sure as hell was not).
@Anime998877 You're the one who started swearing. And you're the one who believes there's a rule that a driver has to move over. Prove it. Because everyone else, including every driver and pundit I've heard from has said that Webber was perfectly entitle to maintain his line.
It's possible that everyone else is wrong of course. But why don't you *prove it* instead of having a temper tantrum.
Are you paying attention? I did not say you have to move over to let someone through. I said you have to swerve if millimetres are all that's between you and the other car. And since Vettel was ahead he would have had the racing line going into turn 12.
As I said the slightest twitch of the steering wheel was all that was needed for Vettel to hit Webber so as to be that close a collision was inevitable. Webber should have played it safe but as per usual gives no room.
Now, that's a fairly reasonable argument. It's not however what you seemed to be saying before. Yes, you can argue that Webber could have maybe even should have given Vettel more room, and that it was risky. You can't however say that he was obliged to do so, or that he was the only one at fault. At the end of the day there was sufficient room, and it was Vettels who hit Webber. Not the other way around.
I think you'll find few to agree Webber was equally at fault. I don't.
@Anime998877 if you bother to look at the rules of driving at stes'' a driver has the right to hold his line when in front of another car'' look at the video it was vettel who swerved not webber. these are the inescapable FACTS. as per the commentators ''former f1 drivers'' vettels fault
@Anime998877 Not only that but webber is known for being really aggressive, you would think vettel would know he wasn't going to give that up and just try to out break him into that corner, both at fault in my opinion, mainly vettel for thinking webber would give way and turning into him and a tiny bit webber for not just giving him more room and re take little later on
Up until mid last year, of the leading drivers, I'd say Webber was the most easily overtaken driver out there. Thankfully a couple of years being stablemate to DC has now apparently corrected this minor deficiency.
@Anime99887 look you have your opinon i respect that but i have mine its far more educated than yours and 23 drivers in f1 agree with me says its own story
Maybe in your eyes. But we all have an opinion, and my opinion states otherwise. Now I want to have a debate but it seems the only proper one I can get here is with 500bhpcossie.
this is the problem with the sport alwways being dominated by two or three teams in one year or another. drivers should be allowed to race, not stupidly but race. mark webber doesnt want to end up a coultard playing second fiddle to vettel.
Who the hell said Webber is not allowed have to fight back? I said he should have yielded to avoid collision and then try to re-overtake ala Hamilton on Button!
They should have communcated clearly over the radio.
Second: I'm certain Webber saw Vettel on the side of his mirror AND eventually his side vision. Common, Vettel was up by half a car. Webber could have inched over a bit.
Oh for god's sake I never said Vettel was all the way past I said he was ahead, when you're ahead you're entitled to the racing line, as a team mate Webber should have yielded. Alternately, Webber could see Vettel, Vettel couldn't see Webber and so Webber should have at least moved over to the right when he saw they were in danger of hitting each other.
@Anime998877 Webber was not obliged to change direction and move over. Where on earth you get that from I don't know, but it bears no relation to *racing*
All Webber did was maintain his line and somehow you've construed that to him being in the wrong. Take off you Vettel tinted glasses.
You don't fucking stick to one side of the circuit when the guy is already 3 quarters of a car length ahead of you, would you rather Vettel move over or Webber who's got the entire track to his right?
Yes you do stick to your line, and you certainly don't expect your teammate to swerve into you. There's a reason the verdict is unanimous that it was Vettel's fault. It's because it was. And, this comes from people who know about racing. You evidently don't.
The slightest twitch of the steering wheel to the right was all that was needed for Vettel to hit Webber. Look how close they are just before the collision - are you telling me you would have just stayed there?
Webber has been far more superior than Vettel in the last 3-4 races, I think that this is Vettel being spiteful and being a total individual, not a team player like he insists he is, and he didn't even accept responsibility in any post-race interviews. In the press conference you can clearly see Hamilton (who was racing behind this pair) make a right sided jerking movement whilst talking to Webber, showing he and most of the commentators (and Christian Horner) thought that it was Vettel's fault!
No he hasn't, Red bull has revealed Vettel had a damaged chassis, in istanbul he got a new one and oh look he outpaced Webber all weekend until q3 when he was hit with a rollbar failure. Vettel should be miles ahead of the championship by now as he should have won every single fly-away race.
I've lost all respect for Vettel and the team politics at Red Bull.
It blows my mind how anyone who is educated in this incident can give more than 10% of the blame to Webber.
Red Bull just doesn't want to lose their so called GOLDEN BOY, or even upset him.
Its pretty obvious that Webber is a better driver in 2010 then Vettel, he is now one of my most admired F1 drivers and i believe he will be World champion.
I've lost all respect for Vettel and the team politics at Red Bull.
It blows my mind how anyone who is educated in this incident can give more than 10% of the blame to Webber.
Red Bull just doesn't want to lose their so called GOLDEN BOY, or even upset him.
Its pretty obvious that Webber is a better driver in 2010 then Vettel, he is now one of my most admired F1 drivers and i believe he will be World champion.
I think the key thing here is that this accident was mostly a team failure because they were pushed by Mclaren. They had one driver in Eco mode saving gas and the tires. Vettel was still not in Eco mode so he knew that was his only chance to pass and he took it. TEAM MISTAKE for not putting both drivers on Eco mode and much as I don't like Hamilton much he is still a great driver and pushed Red Bull into making this mistake. The drivers were just racing and stuff like that happens when you race.
dolina64 1 year ago
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dolina64 1 year ago
He doesn't even touch the grass!
macjackracing 1 year ago
vettel is incidental driver. it is already second collision with webber, than with kubica - too much for such short time in f1 championship.
zazezati 1 year ago
Webber was fine with what he done....he was holding his line driving completely straight...Vettel's move was also fine, until he tried to cut Webber off. If he is going to stick it up the inside its up to him to get his breaking point and use the inside of the corner to take position, not try and push Webber of the track. Clearly Vettel's fault.
godfreywilko 1 year ago
webber has every right to go mental on this german cunt wagon -it's twice now vettel has crashed into him both times being vettels fault
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QasimAnwar135 1 year ago
vettel is under huge pressure of german media as "new schumacher", but he isn't champions level, at all.
hope, that this year will webber champion - smart, fair, intelligent driver.
i wonder, why red bull protects vettel ?
zazezati 1 year ago
They are racing each other they both want to win so to win you have to be in 1st so they crashed because they both thought they were ahead and it was a side to side crash so no one was in first
XTRMR4P1DZz 1 year ago
Mark left him enough room to get past, its vettel's own fault he crashed out. Im glad mark was able to finish on the podium, i hope this does'nt effect the rest of the season for him. They should just sort this out in the carpark.
hammersmashedcorpse 1 year ago
i hate u vettel so much, fucking cockhead. Go Webber!
devilruski 1 year ago 2
Vettel is obviously the one to blame. He swerved while Webber didn't move.
Whoever blames this one on Webber makes no sense.
CaboArmorKing 1 year ago
@CaboArmorKing That's right. This is what the rational ones are trying to tell the other side. I am astonished to read that there are people who think that Webber should have just made way for King Vettel no matter how irrational and unsafe the move was. If Webber had done this, then he should not be in the F1 league.
Chilloutchatter 1 year ago
Vettel's fault. If he had waited a bit longer he would have been clear of Webber. He was still pulling ahead.
Instead he tried to bully him and didn't give him time to react. Webbers not a mind reader, and he had left him room.
Its not the first time Vettel has twitched when side by side, maybe he'll calm down after another couple of crashes. RB management are losing credibility by being biased for Vettel and against Webber.
Neilmurg 1 year ago
sucked in vettel you tool
lloydbolier 1 year ago
Your all retards who think it was vettel's fault. he made a fair move, like other people had done at the same point. Webber clearly DIDN'T give him enough room, and was too bothered about his ego to let him through. Vettel was ahead but Mark still didn't move. He cause the accident, cause he forced Vettel onto the dirty, bumpy side of the track so he lost control. He never 'swerved into him' like some twats r saying. he lost control of the car, because of Webber, end of
Velocitigerr 1 year ago
@Velocitigerr he didn't force vettel onto the dirty side. Are you fucking blind? You could fit a double decker bus in that gap. Its clear vettel moved to the right, just as he was passing webber. The kid is a tit. He may be a good driver but a good overtaker he is not.
FarRightFred 1 year ago
@FarRightFred sorry, are u a F1 driver? F1 cars are extrememly hard cars to handle at speed, especially when some spazz is pushing you towards the grass. Even Christian Horner admits Webber should have given him more space. so, stfu.
Velocitigerr 1 year ago 7
@Velocitigerr are you a F1 driver? no, I didn't think so. He was not pushing him towards the grass and if you open your eyes you can clearly see vettel had enough room as his car was just passing webbers. So how the fuck was he pushed onto the grass? As vettel started to pass he moved right (as you can see from the onboard camera) which caused the accident. I don't support either of them tbh but I can clearly see who is is the wrong and that guys name is Seb "overrated" Vettel.
FarRightFred 1 year ago
This should add more tension into the lead-up of the Australia vs Germany World Cup match.
lukamotiv 1 year ago
Webber was being a dick and not moving out the way to the far superior driver, where did u expect him to go? And from Vettel's point of view mark could not be seen.
Now that all you German hating scum have made such a huge deal about it, every time Vettel does well you will just say that the team is biased.
Bastards.
Nish2280 1 year ago
@Nish2280 Vettel, the far superior driver? Where was he in the Spanish and Monaco GPs then? Who's leading the WDC? Oh, its Mark Webber isn't it? Why the hell would he just let Vettel go by?
Mark could not be seen? Maybe, but then nearly all overtakes are like this. Just look at Hamilton and Button's battle.
Brundle, Hamilton, Coulthard, and Lauda all believes it's Vettel's fault. Yet, Red Bull believes it is Webber's fault. Even Brundle thinks Red Bull are clearly favouring Vettel.
d4rky26 1 year ago
@d4rky26 Ok. Ill admit, i was slightly pissed off after reading all the Vettel hate comments. I believe it was both their faults if not more of Webber's. Didnt you see how when Lewis was pressured by Button he just gave way and then attacked moments later? If Webber was the better driver why wouldnt he do that? Also where did u expect Vetter to go? Into the grass? Just back off and not challenge for 25 points?
Just because Brundle says so doesnt mean i cant have my own opinion.
Nish2280 1 year ago
@d4rky26 you can add Mike Gascoyne to the list.
Chilloutchatter 1 year ago
Vettel is an idiot for trying to over take with such little room..
TheBucking 1 year ago
Totally Vettels fault
bigbadbeesa 1 year ago
I still think Webber should have had some sense and realised vettel had the drive and moved across slightly.
dannyjar100 1 year ago
its war aussie vs germans, the bloody germans r gonna pay for this at thw world cup. wats worst is the bloody team is blaming webber cause there so bloody biast against non-europeans.
arrrz0rrr9 1 year ago 2
He shouldn't have made his move there .. but it really is too close to call as to whose fault it is. Webber coz he should've give some space for Vettel, or Vettel for being too aggressive. In F1, I support the Red Bulls, and esp. Vettel, but i have to say that this incident may be his fault, he was probably jealous of Webber's past 2 wins, and wanted the glory for himself.
archreaper990 1 year ago
Totally Vettels fault. OK, he did overtake Webber - but then he drove into him when the pass was not complete - schoolboy error.
Badsellcut 1 year ago
Webber was right in the middle of the track and not set up for the line of the corner! Vettel passas, assuming that webber would move over, but hes still there when vettel moves in to the line.
smithy15493 1 year ago
Vettel had the space, providing he bullied Webber out of the way so he had the line for the corner.
Webber, being australian, and therefore stubborn, isn't exactly going to make it easy for him to pass like that, so held his line. Think case of 'two cars driving head on, which one is going to swerve first.'
Therefore, when Seb moved over to take the line through the corner, Webber was still there.
Oh dear Red Bull.
Thats it, simple.
phoenixj109 1 year ago
@phoenixj109 lol thats a rather broad generalisation there? He is an Australian, therefore stubborn...
dshiznit4892 1 year ago
vettel licks the bag
bong605 1 year ago
webber should let him go and be overtaken by hamilton, ey? What a load of bollocks. People are not telling Vettel he did something wrong. How is he ever going to learn how to overtake safely. And its not the first, second or even third time. Only this time Webber held his line. He did it to lewis in the pits in china and also twice earlier on in the race in turkey when hamilton tried to overtake him and both times hamilton moved.
mujasi 1 year ago
Webber #FTW 2010
jpwpara 1 year ago
LOL theyre on the same team
verypoorhobo 1 year ago
Lesson for Vettel. If another driver doesnt give you space you cant take it by crashing into them.
daniel987878 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
just cant beleive some of the comments here..webber was at fault..what race were they watching...vettel is the better driver, um who is leading the championship atm??
imo vettel made a major mistake which cost webber his 3rd straight win, and anyone who thinks different needs their eyes examined
TheEnforcerAU 1 year ago
Seb is a spoilt, jealous and immature brat you cannot come to term with his team mates success. So under pressure he tried this arrogant move on Webber. Vettel is just desperate to be the cynosure of all eyes. Mark now exudes his class and maturity on the track and off ,which was also evident in the press conference where he controlled his emotions instead of lashing out against Vettel. Go Mark Go...Leave Your Mark All Over Vettel
garry071 1 year ago 2
i am of the opinion that vettel will not win a world championship unless he becomes more patient and less impetulant
imbored343 1 year ago
Weber should let him go. He was under pressure from Hamilton
forgewire 1 year ago
@forgewire why should webber give up his spot? webber's at the top of the championship ladder so if anything, vettel should have given way
free533 1 year ago
The video tells the story, there is no point in arguing over it, why debate the issue on and on.. Clearly Seb hit Mark, he made an error in judgement or lost control and hit Mark. Seb took a spur of the moment chance, he also 'assumed' Mark would pull to the right to let him through. Mark is racing he was under no obligation to allow Seb through. Seb knew Mark was told to switch to ECO mode so Seb thought "Hmmm here's an opportunity"...the rest is history.
jimmyboyf1000 1 year ago
no vettel, you are the cuckoo one. Seriously do you expect Webber to lay out the red carpet for you?
Webber 2010.
ustumo 1 year ago 3
With about a quarter of the race to go,Vettel had plenty of time to challenge his team-mate for a win
Not only was his decision to overtake greedy, his attempt was clumsy & highly in-experienced
With Red-bull in perfect positions,the little prick let his ego get in the way & lost valuable points for not only himself,but for the team
Now that Webber knows his team-mate's greedy intent to surpass him at any cost,he should now only drive for himself without Vettel's well-being in mind
TheBearEzentials 1 year ago 2
this is what you get medico government departments when you issue health safety warnings at responsible product manufacturers, the people get cravings.
pepsirichard 1 year ago
dunno if it was shown on tv but we saw at the track vettel got crazy mad when he went to pit after the crash as if it was webber's fault
rondar2 1 year ago
vettel is retarded
musiecs 1 year ago
though it was a truly unfortunate for vettel missing out, it wud have been better had even webber got out because the way the cars crashed i though it was over for the red bulls in turkey.....and in that process shumi wud have got the 3rd position atleast.... i want mercedes to well and specially shumi.......very unfortunate to crash out in the flying lap in the 3rd qualifying.
ethip21 1 year ago
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ethip21 1 year ago
Weber should be punished for putting his teamates life at risk. What a reckless thing to do.
FOX5V 1 year ago
@FOX5V Webber is going straight, he does not deviate...Vettel tries to make a pass, then quickly swerves right making contact with Mark. No one to blame other then Vettel. Another analogy would be like Vettel slamming into a parked car, then blaming the parked car for being in the way! The only way Mark could be at fault is if the team ordered the pass..which is illegal!!!
robinho1979 1 year ago
@FOX5V Are you serious? The accident was Vittels fault. He came in strong, but for some reason, expected Webber to swerve away. Webber left enough room for Vittel to pass if he was to hold his line,but the little prick swerved right into Webber & caused a stupid accident. If Webber was the one who closed in to the left, then it would be Webber at fault,but that was not the case
You can back Vittel all you want,but watch the video and let the facts do the talking
TheBearEzentials 1 year ago
If your going for a one two you just dont tell Your number two driver to take the lead because this is what happens. RBR favours Vettel and this is shown by the way Horner and Helmut are covering the accident up. Vettel IS a real wonderkid isn't he.. Red Bull Racing stuffs it up all the time.
gageofrage2007 1 year ago
I think this is a typical race incident. Webber doen't move a millimeter to the right, giving his teammate very less space. Vettel moves a few centimeters to the right because the left trackline was very close to him. Both racing, both to blame...
rluttmer 1 year ago
@rluttmer I dissagree.
1)The timing to challenge Webber was stupid.There was plenty of race left to put up a battle
2)Webber held his line,was not expected to swerve away for Vittel.There was a car length inside for Vittel to advance forward,but made the stupid move to swerve right
3)If Vittel gained half a car length more, then Webber would have had to make room,thus avoiding any catastrophe & holding a 1-2 finish for the team
Webber didn't "need" to win &would have gladly taken points for 2nd
TheBearEzentials 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
the ordinary Weber is costing Vettel. Vettel should leave Red Bull ASAP. There is no point of staying in a team that can't recognize or respect the true talent over some ordinary driver. All the red neck aussies are putting in their cheap comments here.
randominitializer 1 year ago
@randominitializer fuck off mate, aussies are not rednecks!
TOPGEARFAN132 1 year ago
@randominitializer .....random anal-iser more like it.....who the fuck are you and what shithole country is lesotho....you rampant homosexual.
strop001 1 year ago 10
@randominitializer Obviously got no idea champ. Whether or not you like to admit it, Webber is dominating Vettel and his 4 poles, 2 wins (should have been 3) is evidence of this. Did you watch the Monte Carlo race, Vettel had no answer to his team mate and after each safety car, Webber pulled away with ease.
T0OKEY 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you guys look closely @ the 48 sec mark, Webber looks in his LHS mirror and has a slight steering input to the left to close the door on Seb. Seb was way faster at this point and was not able to slow down to avoid a collision. Webber has a history of blocking in this manner. I have lost an awful lot of respect for Webber. What an ass.
lurchsum69 1 year ago
@lurchsum69 cause you no everything its webbers fault isn't it. it was vettel moving into him thinking he cleared him when he hadn't
zanedouglas101 1 year ago
@zanedouglas101 I actually agree with you. Seb did move into Webber. The point I was making was Webber started the whole thing. It was unnecessary to block him to begin with. The 'no everything’ is spelled 'know'. Thanks for your participation in the forum. When you graduate high school come back and joins us for an adult conversation.
lurchsum69 1 year ago
Comment removed
lurchsum69 1 year ago
Are you kidding Vettel? Maybe you should go back to gokarts and learn how to be a teammate freaking idiot.
TheM1Rasco 1 year ago
Vettel....YOU IDIOT! >:(
mrmarvel8 1 year ago
zzz vettel. no brains..
yeongkit 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Vettel is foolish for risking the championship of the great Mark Webber. What a careless manoever.....
.....But as it turned out, this has given Webber a good lead in the championship. And Vettel has shot himself in the foot. Tee hee.
ExpertCriticism 1 year ago
@ExpertCriticism your right there the only problem now is the Mclarens
zanedouglas101 1 year ago
vettle didnt have the line
MrBoogiebangbang 1 year ago
Comment removed
ExpertCriticism 1 year ago
Go Hamilton!
gallardo11 1 year ago
Vettel should learn to use some common sense...He was never going to get past there. He ruined his race and Mark's.
What a clueless twit!
BakedNut 1 year ago
They let that retard Hamilton nick the race
1asbo 1 year ago 2
this is the main reason why i stop watchin F1, its just an individual race, team work ma foot, anyone still remembers how barrichelo let m.schumacher cross the finish line before him on the last lap?
klesky 1 year ago
@klesky and shumacher taking hill out in adialade (i think) cant forget that
MrBoogiebangbang 1 year ago
mark is a noob
he neads to know when your team mates you give each other some room to get around
Vettel is going to be a champion but he needs a better team and teammate
SuperKaranSandhu 1 year ago
@SuperKaranSandhu Mark is the noob? Vettel had room he just didnt have the line for the next corner so instead of being hung out to dry he risked a sharp right turn at his team mate to make him baulk (But he didnt), but oh hang on if the situation was reversed it would be Webbers fault because Vettels quicker right?
forr3st32 1 year ago 2
@forr3st32 yep if i was redbull i'd be sucking up to vettel because they want to be the dominant team for years to come and they have the fastest driver atm so they are going to take care of him i dnt blame them but we know what happened the can say anything they want but the film wont lie
poodytang6 1 year ago
@poodytang6 atm Webber is the fastest driver but point taken Vettel is the driver for the future, Its seems rbr has taken a measured approach which is good, hope the 2 of them dont clash too much this season because that car is a rocket. Unfortunately I do expect fireworks not because they dislike each other but because they are both in the running, its may be Webbers only shot and Vettels first so it should make for interesting (and sometimes frustrating) racing.
forr3st32 1 year ago
Vettel reminds me of that other German - Michael Schumacher, who also had great talent but no ethics in his racing. Win at any cost is not the way of a true champion.
parachihuahua 1 year ago
The young german lacks the maturity of his team mate in Webber, he will learn the hard way as he did in Istanbul.
ViCMerco 1 year ago
Vettel is an idiot! GO MARK!! ...this is your year mate!!
sonofarooshooter 1 year ago 4
Nice Vettel, costing championship points, what a retard...., he should have checked that he clear webber b4 moving over to the right.
MrZealot1 1 year ago
It have been said over and over and yet I still don't see why RBR blaming Webber for this incidence. Vettel foolishly destroying Webber hattrick no doubt about it with this replay. Hate the gut of Vettel doing this crazy swirling finger showing it not his fault.
ausSocceroos 1 year ago
@ausSocceroos It's Germans/Austrians backing Germans. They would rather lose constructors' points than admit that the little German brat was at fault. Vettel should have overtaken on the straight and done it safely. This is what the Vettel suck ups don't understand. They are pandering to an immature spoilt brat who is fast becoming a monster.
Chilloutchatter 1 year ago 20
@Chilloutchatter, nail on the head there buddy, my thoughts exactly.
boozobug 1 year ago
@Chilloutchatter i bet ur australian...
Nagsatish 1 year ago
@Nagsatish Sure am. And of course we're proud of Mark's progress through F1. But if Webber stuffs up, we say that too. Not argue against the obvious facts like what has happened now with Vettel. Perfect example is the Australian GP 2010. Webber stuffed himself and Hamilton with this same dumb move. It's the one race of the calendar that Webber can lose a bit of his cool because he's on home soil.
Chilloutchatter 1 year ago
Vettel trying to overtake foolishly... No team work man.. Vettel's jealous of Webber I think.. But I still Support RBR and Vettel..
rbehani777 1 year ago
there's some teamwork. what a happy family.
leloodallasmultipass 1 year ago
Yep.... They are both Gay !!!
mjjrubenstein 1 year ago
oh nooo how embarassing! unlucky
stefisking 1 year ago
ドンマイケル
ysdps142 1 year ago
Vettle is a jerk!
This has been coming for ages, Vettle just couldn't accept Webber winning the last couple races and constantly getting pole position.
Vettle was going to fast into the corner, simple as that. Webber didn't have to just let this jerk push him off the road, because vettle believes he is the "it" man.
you have a lot of growing up to do Vettle.
TrangulumAustrale 1 year ago 3
vettel thought he was clear of webber when they hit the turn but didn't work I can wait till they to Canada in 2 weeks mark could get payback in Montreal.
brandensimmons1987 1 year ago
The vid is quite clear. Webber kept his line while Vettel swerved before the braking. Then Seb tries to fool everyone with his antics, as he is really pissed of at Mark, but I'm sure he knows he blew it.
shininio 1 year ago
that was just dumb on vettel's part, over anxious
borderpatrol05 1 year ago
A smart driver would have swerved away to avoid contact. Webber is not smart.
Mohibor 1 year ago
@Mohibor A smart driver would not have swerved into another car. Vettel is not smart.
Webber couldn't do anything, Vettel swerved too quick.
d4rky26 1 year ago 14
@d4rky26 agreed!
4892Anthony 1 year ago
@d4rky26 look at the video, Vettel was ahead, and Webber had almost 3 seconds to move away from him. He didn't, and Vettel had to keep himself off of the grass. (Not saying that Vettel's idea was good, but this is the exact type of racing that Ecclestone wanted when he announced 25 points for a win. Seems to be working...)
masterrubixs 1 year ago
@masterrubixs Vettel did not have to keep himself off the grass, Webber gave him enough room. He didn't have to move away from him.
d4rky26 1 year ago
@d4rky26 and what would Vettel have done when they reached the corner? He was too far inside and would have had to slow down earlier, which would have caused a similar collision. Vettel had gone ahead and put Webber into a move-or-collide position. If Webber had moved he would have finished 2nd.
masterrubixs 1 year ago
@Mohibor i agree....vettel was too fast to do anything...webber should have let vettel overtake...
kay5951 1 year ago
@kay5951 Webber had been ask to save fuel, that is the only reason Vettel was faster, isn't it interesting how the team weren't asking Vettel to save fuel.
This is Teams orders 2010 style. Sad to think when Webber is so clearly kicking Vettel's ass.
soultradermusic 1 year ago
Vettel is the only one to blame! Not only Webber was the leader of the race, he's the leader of the WDC and he has no clause in his contract saying that he must let his team mate pass and win, like Rubens had in his Ferrari contract. But then, it was Schumacher's demand to sign with Ferrari that all his team mates were to be his vassals. Vettel is no Schummy!
AllycatLeo 1 year ago
@AllycatLeo they changed the rules, team orders havent been allow for a few years now - after the schummy incidents
HolyBlackJezus 1 year ago
vettel is CLEARLY at fault he was the one who swerved into webber who was holding his line ''as per the rules'' it is as clear as day as the commentators said webber was not at fault.
brumby51 1 year ago
I think Vettel should have passed webber on the outside and pushed webber onto the dirty side of the track, he didn't he chose to move to the dirty side too early and didn't have the pace advantage once he was out of the slip stream, he should have conceded and done it properly the next lap. To complete a succesful pass, you must pass, not rely on the guy you are passing to give you the position
4892Anthony 1 year ago 3
pair o' fannies
jackyshaw8 1 year ago
Can clearly see at 0:47 Webber decides to squeeze Vettel as he can see him coming in his mirror. Was Vettle to blame? Perpahps, but they're team mates so you'd think that perhaps Webber would just let him have a bit more room just to avoid any sort of accident and try and reclaim his position further on.
Vettle isn't on a ego trip, he just doesn't want to wait around.
ClawHammer5000 1 year ago
I feel Webber was not friendly with his position. He knew Vettel was ahead and on his inside, yet he didn't give him room and space to overtake. As u can see, Webber didn't even steer. he was so rigid with his direction.
As for Vettel, his car was about half way ahead of Webber. So, Webber should have let Vettel to pass him and maybe attack him in the next sequence of corners. Webber was not courteous with Vettel.
dominicrock92 1 year ago
Anime... watch Piquet and Senna at Hungary '86 and learn how it is done! Vettel should have gone right and never left of Webber...
watch?v=d9C4l5eMr4c
AllycatLeo 1 year ago
@AllycatLeo
I know I mean after all overtaking on the inside is not possible!
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877 Actually it is possible and that's why most drivers take the inside to defend their position. They can brake earlier and keep the line to the next turn and thus force the opponent to brake too or crash in their rear.
But when it doesn't work (like it didn't for Piquet on the 1st try-nice X ) and you have a faster car, you try again from the outside, take the front and then you close to the inside and take the turn making the opponent to brake, just like Piquet did on the 2nd time!
AllycatLeo 1 year ago
@AllycatLeo
Vettel didn't have a second time.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877 good reason why vettel didn't have a second time.....he caused a collision...he is the one who is nuts! Good on webber for holding his ground, can't let little punks try to out muscle you
4892Anthony 1 year ago 2
Vettel is just an idiot - he caused the whole thing - his ego is to big and thinks he is better than Webber - Vettel should never have gone that side on the dirty track - he should have waited and been more prepared. He is not the great Schu!! but gee doesnt this start bringing back memories of Hill and Shui ??
heartmagicoz 1 year ago
@shoeme69
I have NEVER seen anybody back off of an overtaking opportunity. Comparing Schumi and Vettel positions are ridiculous. Yes they were both on the inside of the circuit but:
1. Schumi was being overtaken, Vettel was overtaking
2. The line Schumi took has considerably more grip than the line Vettel took.
Compare Schum and Web.
Schumi - Button comes through him, he concedes the racing line before it goes wrong.
Webber - Vettel comes through him, Webber doesn't concede, it goes wrong.
Anime998877 1 year ago
TURKEY 2006 - WEBBER vs KUBICA (on youtube). Maybe vettel needs to take a look at this video. That's how it's done.
16090763 1 year ago
@16090763
That is not relevant. Actually you have just proven my point.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877 Actually this is precisely relevant because it shows how the pass should have been done. In this video, webber held his line perfectly and vettel rammed him. At the point of impact there was at least 1 foot between vettel and the grass so to say there wasn't enough room is ludicrous.
16090763 1 year ago
@16090763
That overtaking move is similar to Button vs Schumi in the 2010 race, both Schumi in the 2010 race and Kubica in the video yielded before the corner after they saw their rivals skyrocket past them. Webber didn't...
If Schumi didn't yield, and they ended up in a collision it would be Schumi's fault for not giving up after having clearly lost the position.
Anime998877 1 year ago
At 0:47 you can see Webber steering to left - absolutely unnecessary, he already had lost the battle there. From this point his line brought him more and more slighly left. Vettel corrects his line at 1:22 to avoid the grass. So he went on a line which took him more an more to the right. So both cars came closer and they met. 50:50, but Webber's move at 0:47 was the beginning.
Bleifuss88 1 year ago
@Bleifuss88 no you don't see Webber "steering to the right". He holds his line, which is tilting towards his left. If we think Vettal was in the right in this situation, then we say it is okay to over accelerate going into a turn, get your nose ahead, forget about the braking duel because you can expect the other guy to let you through like a doorman.
brookbyhill 1 year ago
At 0:50 look how close Vettel and Webber are, and Webber can clearly see that, Vettel can't.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@shoeme69
Yes - Vettel was in front this video shows it clearly.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@shoeme69
Schumi wasn't on the inside like Vettel. Vettel is right on the edge of the circuit where there is virtually ZERO grip. Why didn't Vettel do what Schumi did? Because he was overtaking, not being overtaken.
Anime998877 1 year ago
OMFG! Again this? Anime, go read about it. EVERY F1 driver, present and past, have said it. Vettel was to blame. He should've kept it straight and take the next left turn with whatever chances he had. You don't swerve right with half a car advantage only because you think you're "much" faster.
Fighting for position establishes that the defending car can change position once and hold straight. Webber did it. It was his right to do it. Glad he grabbed a podium after Vettel's mess!
AllycatLeo 1 year ago
@AllycatLeo
That is ridiculous. The "chances" as you say were no good. Not only would he have lost position to Webber, he could have lost second to Hamilton. It would make more sense to get to the racing line to have better "chances".
Anime998877 1 year ago
@AllycatLeo Wouldn't bother, he's obviously a rabid unreasoning nut. He's already swearing because he can't convince people that up is down.
He just can't rationalize that as you mention just about every F1 driver, pundit or team manager (apart from Red Bull!!) clearly know that drivers do NOT have to move over and are perfectly entitled to maintain their line if an overtake has not been completed (which it sure as hell was not).
pspidey512 1 year ago
@pspidey512
"he's obviously a rabid unreasoning nut"
Congratulations on proving me wrong.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877 You're the one who started swearing. And you're the one who believes there's a rule that a driver has to move over. Prove it. Because everyone else, including every driver and pundit I've heard from has said that Webber was perfectly entitle to maintain his line.
It's possible that everyone else is wrong of course. But why don't you *prove it* instead of having a temper tantrum.
pspidey512 1 year ago
@pspidey512
Are you paying attention? I did not say you have to move over to let someone through. I said you have to swerve if millimetres are all that's between you and the other car. And since Vettel was ahead he would have had the racing line going into turn 12.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877
Why did he have to swerve???? I find that statement puzzling. Vettel was given enough room and no more.
Could dance around this all day. But it's really quite simple. Webber was not obliged to move over. Vettel turned into him. And took them both out.
pspidey512 1 year ago
@pspidey512
As I said the slightest twitch of the steering wheel was all that was needed for Vettel to hit Webber so as to be that close a collision was inevitable. Webber should have played it safe but as per usual gives no room.
It is as much Webber being a fool as Vettel.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877
Now, that's a fairly reasonable argument. It's not however what you seemed to be saying before. Yes, you can argue that Webber could have maybe even should have given Vettel more room, and that it was risky. You can't however say that he was obliged to do so, or that he was the only one at fault. At the end of the day there was sufficient room, and it was Vettels who hit Webber. Not the other way around.
I think you'll find few to agree Webber was equally at fault. I don't.
pspidey512 1 year ago
@pspidey512
I said long ago that both Webber and Vettel were at fault but it seems as though I'm defending Vettel. I'm not.
I, and many people are of the opinion that Vettel was careless but Webber was equally to blame because of the reasons I stated before.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877 if you bother to look at the rules of driving at stes'' a driver has the right to hold his line when in front of another car'' look at the video it was vettel who swerved not webber. these are the inescapable FACTS. as per the commentators ''former f1 drivers'' vettels fault
brumby51 1 year ago
@Anime998877 Not only that but webber is known for being really aggressive, you would think vettel would know he wasn't going to give that up and just try to out break him into that corner, both at fault in my opinion, mainly vettel for thinking webber would give way and turning into him and a tiny bit webber for not just giving him more room and re take little later on
Savage1606 1 year ago
@Savage1606
Up until mid last year, of the leading drivers, I'd say Webber was the most easily overtaken driver out there. Thankfully a couple of years being stablemate to DC has now apparently corrected this minor deficiency.
spambot21 1 year ago
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yerfucked 1 year ago
@shoeme69
Position for braking is not relevant. The situation remains the same.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime99887 look you have your opinon i respect that but i have mine its far more educated than yours and 23 drivers in f1 agree with me says its own story
500bhpcossie 1 year ago
@shoeme69
Maybe in your eyes. But we all have an opinion, and my opinion states otherwise. Now I want to have a debate but it seems the only proper one I can get here is with 500bhpcossie.
Anime998877 1 year ago
sry, but this is vettel's fault. he cut across webber. plain and simple.
s0b00n 1 year ago
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yerfucked 1 year ago
@shoeme69
I'm sorry. WTF are you talking about?
Anime998877 1 year ago
@shoeme69
And giving no space to your team mate who is ahead of you is the smart thing ?
Anime998877 1 year ago
this is the problem with the sport alwways being dominated by two or three teams in one year or another. drivers should be allowed to race, not stupidly but race. mark webber doesnt want to end up a coultard playing second fiddle to vettel.
wazo89 1 year ago
@shoeme69
Who the hell said Webber is not allowed have to fight back? I said he should have yielded to avoid collision and then try to re-overtake ala Hamilton on Button!
Anime998877 1 year ago
@shoeme69
Are you retarded? Vettel was going for the pass why the hell back off? I've never seen anybody do that!
Anime998877 1 year ago
They should have communcated clearly over the radio.
Second: I'm certain Webber saw Vettel on the side of his mirror AND eventually his side vision. Common, Vettel was up by half a car. Webber could have inched over a bit.
jdbs2009 1 year ago
@shoeme69
Oh for god's sake I never said Vettel was all the way past I said he was ahead, when you're ahead you're entitled to the racing line, as a team mate Webber should have yielded. Alternately, Webber could see Vettel, Vettel couldn't see Webber and so Webber should have at least moved over to the right when he saw they were in danger of hitting each other.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877 Webber was not obliged to change direction and move over. Where on earth you get that from I don't know, but it bears no relation to *racing*
All Webber did was maintain his line and somehow you've construed that to him being in the wrong. Take off you Vettel tinted glasses.
pspidey512 1 year ago
@pspidey512
I am no fan of Vettel.
I am no fan of Webber.
I am no fan of Red bull.
You don't fucking stick to one side of the circuit when the guy is already 3 quarters of a car length ahead of you, would you rather Vettel move over or Webber who's got the entire track to his right?
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877
Get a grip dude. Swearing won't make you right.
Yes you do stick to your line, and you certainly don't expect your teammate to swerve into you. There's a reason the verdict is unanimous that it was Vettel's fault. It's because it was. And, this comes from people who know about racing. You evidently don't.
pspidey512 1 year ago
@pspidey512
The slightest twitch of the steering wheel to the right was all that was needed for Vettel to hit Webber. Look how close they are just before the collision - are you telling me you would have just stayed there?
Anime998877 1 year ago
Webber has been far more superior than Vettel in the last 3-4 races, I think that this is Vettel being spiteful and being a total individual, not a team player like he insists he is, and he didn't even accept responsibility in any post-race interviews. In the press conference you can clearly see Hamilton (who was racing behind this pair) make a right sided jerking movement whilst talking to Webber, showing he and most of the commentators (and Christian Horner) thought that it was Vettel's fault!
Davieb913 1 year ago
@Davieb913
No he hasn't, Red bull has revealed Vettel had a damaged chassis, in istanbul he got a new one and oh look he outpaced Webber all weekend until q3 when he was hit with a rollbar failure. Vettel should be miles ahead of the championship by now as he should have won every single fly-away race.
Anime998877 1 year ago
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I've lost all respect for Vettel and the team politics at Red Bull.
It blows my mind how anyone who is educated in this incident can give more than 10% of the blame to Webber.
Red Bull just doesn't want to lose their so called GOLDEN BOY, or even upset him.
Its pretty obvious that Webber is a better driver in 2010 then Vettel, he is now one of my most admired F1 drivers and i believe he will be World champion.
StueLord 1 year ago
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I've lost all respect for Vettel and the team politics at Red Bull.
It blows my mind how anyone who is educated in this incident can give more than 10% of the blame to Webber.
Red Bull just doesn't want to lose their so called GOLDEN BOY, or even upset him.
Its pretty obvious that Webber is a better driver in 2010 then Vettel, he is now one of my most admired F1 drivers and i believe he will be World champion.
StueLord 1 year ago
Comment removed
StueLord 1 year ago
great to see drivers racing eachother even if it caused this look at button and hamilton great racing what the sport and the fans need
tomdonny 1 year ago