CCW 3.21: Brad Meltzer's BUFFY and Becky Cloonan's DEMO REVIEWED

[Backfromthedeadguy]

1. Huge Buffy/Whedon fan.

2. Identity Crisis is one of my favorite story lines...this is the first I've heard that it's hated for whatever reason.

[locusmortis]

Welcome to the internet.

[farcher3]

There was this one episode of the Buffy TV series where Buffy defeats a lizard creature in a park and then right after, she goes back to a bar and fights a giant and beats him easily. Later, she tries to pick up his axe and places it on a glass display case but its so heavy it crashes through kinda showing how strong Buffy is since she can pick it up in the first place. Anyway... Does anyone know what episode (name of/season) that was? I'm trying to get it on DVD. It was my favorite episode.

[ClaudeParish]

I don't know if even Meltzer can save Buffy. It's just too silly. Good luck to him, though. I'll give it a look.

[TheMrManPretty]

I never got into Buffy, but My Wife and I loved Firefly ( Serenity) I can't believe they canceled it with all the crappy WB shows they keep on. * Nathan Fillon for Green Lantern*

[generaldark]

also with society today rape is being put into more books/movies and media that soon people will be so use to it that it no longer shocks them and that will be a sad day

[comicculturewarrior]

Would you believe that The Body was the first episode of Buffy I ever watched? I had always written the show off as something goofy that I would never be interested in. Then one night I had absolutely nothing to do so I decided to kill some time and watch an episode of Buffy. I have loved that show ever since. That's why I kinda have a soft spot for season 5. And I still think the musical is one of the best things I have ever seen on tv.

J.

[generaldark]

BTW were is johnny horror??? he is suppose to be backing me up XD

[locusmortis]

backing you up? Is this meant to be a contest or something?

[generaldark]

nooooo XD

[locusmortis]

Hey if someone thinks I'm wrong, thats fine, someone taking it personal, thats not fine.

[generaldark]

i think your wrong, but not personally.

[locusmortis]

fair enough. As a matter of interest, have you read D'Orozio's blog and if so what did you think of what she had to say about the stuff going on behind the scenes of Identity Crisis.

[generaldark]

no i havent, do you have a link?

[locusmortis]

of course, check your email.

[generaldark]

ok i read one of them and that made me mad. but still i like IC because of other things that happen. so i can like a book but that doesnt mean i like everything bout it.

[comicculturewarrior]

Of course this show is simply that, OUR OPINIONS. In no way do we want to say that what we like is definitively GOOD and that if you don't like it you have 'bad taste'. (Well, Jose may joke about that, but that's his M.O.)

Understand that we are just giving you our opinions on the books or issues at hand. Of course, you can always disagree with us, and as I've said before, I like it when you do.

But hey, thanks for taking the time to tell us how you feel. I appreciate it.

Elliott

[comicculturewarrior]

The only seasons of Buffy that I liked but didn't love were seasons 4 and 7. I thought Adam was a weak big bad and season 7 meandered way too much.

J.

[Theshadowquestion]

Holy shit You guys actually liked this issue?? I am surprised I thought it was going to be the S.O.S where you guys just bash the books for 21 minutes straight but I was proven wrong. You guys should do more reviews on books you like I like your vids when you are praising stuff much more.

[comicculturewarrior]

We praise 'em when they deserve it. We rip 'em as well. We've got over 400 vids doing just that and we ain't changing a thing. ;)

Elliott

[kurumais]

i hated identity crisis as well

[comicculturewarrior]

I am actually torn about Identity Crisis. Before that comic came out I didn't really read any DC books. It is the story that got me into DC comics but I found the catalyst for the story quite disgusting. I feel that this is probably a story for another time though.

J.

[comicculturewarrior]

I was being sarcastic? :)

J.

[blowshimselfupdude]

What's you guys's problem with Bendis's run on Daredevil?

[comicculturewarrior]

I don't think Elliott has a problem with it. I think he actually liked it. MY problem with it is that I thought it was quite boring and underwhelming. Just my opinion though.

J.

[blowshimselfupdude]

Ok. I was just asking cuz you have mentioned it before and I didnt know why.

[comicculturewarrior]

I really liked Bendis' run on DD up until he killed the original White Tiger. At that point, not only did he piss me off by killing the ONLY Puerto Rican superhero in the Marvel U, but then the DD title became 'LA Law' with very little to no action.

Elliott

[deemar325]

Holy shit

That I think was the moment I started too dislike Bendis right there.

[dvid22]

how much longer do you think daredevil will be the leader of the hand, will we see a new heroes for hire?

[deemar325]

I might pick that Buffy up is only for the Meltzer arc.

[Cacti88]

Nice to see jose get boarderline giddy over a book but, What was wrong with Idenity Crisis?

[bobcat1489]

I'm sorry guys, but why is this footage so horrible???

[comicculturewarrior]

@bobcat1489 It often takes a while for YouTube to process the footage. It's uploaded in HD, so if you check back in a bit it should look better.

Elliott

[bobcat1489]

Cool just came back. Much Much better.

[comicculturewarrior]

See? If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'.

Elliott

[generaldark]

BTW how could fans not like identity crisis? that was a crisis that had a lasting effect on the DC universe. in a good way

[johnnyhorror92182]

@generaldark I've never heard a good valid answer to that question, general. I personally like that series. Some of the other viewers have weighed in on this subject, I won't say who, but they particularly didn't like Sue Dibny getting raped by crazed super villian.

The can of worms is open.....

[comicculturewarrior]

And we just got it closed...damn.

;)

Elliott

[generaldark]

it shows how evil the villians are and adds more to the story to also why the heroes decided to mind whipe villians....sheesh there is no way to please people!

[johnnyhorror92182]

@generaldark I agree with what you are saying. But I think it was more of the act itself than the person who did it.

[generaldark]

then wouldnt people not like watchmen?

[johnnyhorror92182]

@generaldark That's is actually a good point. There is a scene where a young Comedian tries to violate the 1st Silk Spectre. Also, I wanna bring up "The Killing Joke", where Joker shoots Babs Gordon, then proceeds to tear off her cloths and photograph her nude bleeding body. That's pretty fucked-up! But I never heard anyone say "That's going too far!"

[generaldark]

i wonder maby with watchmen we didnt know these people but with dr. light we did know him, so seeing him do something like that could piss some people off but how many dr. light fans are out there anywaise?

[locusmortis]

The differnce is that as a writer Alan Moore lets each scene serve the overall story, he dosen't do these things as fanboy fanservice "hey look here everybody, its a rape" moments. Its the same as something like the film "The Accused" where the scene is not done for exploitative reasons.

[generaldark]

i stand by my opinion in saying that it was a way to show you what if you were a hero and you knew a villian who does the most evil deeds and time after time he keeps escaping prison to repeat the same crimes. would you change there whole life forcefully or continue the failed atempt? that is how i see it.

[Morlock50]

Elliott made this point once about Dr. Doom calling Ms. Marvel a whore. Great comic villians are great because of what they represent or because of their motivation for becoming evil. Not because of the number of type of crimes they commit. When Bendis wrote Doom using the language of a common street criminal, he devalues Doom's presence. Same applies with Dr. Light. Now his character is completely defined by being a serial rapist. It's boring and tawdry.

[Morlock50]

I hated those two scenes.  But Alan Moore gets a pass because he's the GREAT ALAN MOORE. One of the most pretentious writers of all time. And Meltzer is a poor man's Alan Moore.

[generaldark]

and that is why nobody gets on bendis for treating woman unfair because he his fan loved brian michael bendis.

[deemar325]

I can appreciate it for the lasting effect, but it really was a snorefest.

[generaldark]

IT was not a snorefest! it wasa a deep and compelling story that tore friends against each other! you have to really soak it in and see what it was all about! leabe identity crisis aloooone!!!!!

[deemar325]

Alright...alright..LOL

You ain't that 'boygirl under sheets dude'?

[generaldark]

wtf?? i no boygirl

[deemar325]

Heh...

Oh Ironmusk got a really good review on the blog must read today

[locusmortis]

I take it these comments are aimed at me so I shall deal with them. The issue of rape in comics or any other media is not one I have a problem with per se, its the way that it is written and portrayed and the motivation for having it in the comic.

The rape of sue dibny was portrayed in an EXTREMELY mysoginistic way, remember this was not a vertigo book or something, it was a mainstream superhero book.

Secondly it was purely exploitative from an editorial point of view

[locusmortis]

It was done because Marvel were killing DC in terms of sales because Marvels product was seen as being edgy and gritty and what could be more "edgy and gritty" than a rape?

If you don't believe me (and if you know me by now I don't tend to bullshit about stuff ) find Valerie D'Orozio's Occasional Superheroine blog and read the 2 articles about Identity Crisis, the first entitled "We need a rape" where a DC exec said just that at an editiorial meetings.

[locusmortis]

And also check the article titled "The Rape Pages are In!" where a (male) DC associate editor gleefully waved around the pages in the office while female editors were silently sickened by this.

It was a despicable, calculating ploy to get media attention and sales on the rape and murder of a character. And yeah, I've got strong opinions and I stick by them 100%

[comicculturewarrior]

I smell an op-ed piece.

J.

[Morlock50]

I completely agree with you here. Rape is such a disturbing crime; why would I want to see it in my comic books? Especially in mainstream superhero books? I read comics to be entertained, not to be reminded of how horrible the real world is.

[Morlock50]

Identity Crisis was boring and started the gritty DC shit that the company is only now getting out of. If Meltzer wants to write a gritty crime drama, he should write one of his shitty books. I hated his "the silver age was not all that innocent" crap. Gardner Fox had ten times the imagination that Meltzer showed in this story. His JLA was horrible too.

[generaldark]

so you need lots of fighting and stuff in order to make it not boring? or was it boring to seeing a story that takes a deeper look into who these charecters and what they beleive in?

[Morlock50]

I was bored with highly stylized dialogue and some of the worst examples of decompression I've ever seen. I'm also bored when a writer tries to be clever instead of compelling. I get bored with a mystery with a cheap, cliched ending that I could see coming from miles away. I think Meltzer presented women in a particularly shitty light, which I also find dreadfully dull. That answer your question?

[generaldark]

i dont know maby you looked too much into it. i read it when i was getting into comics and i saw the story not as "the story with the rape scene" but i saw a more compelling charecter driven story that has become one of my top DC stories.

[generaldark]

hey elliot i got my prize from the contest, just letting u know i got it and thank you